I don't know if there's a bit of "Mike Love style revisionism" going on here ........ but all through the late 80's and 90's it was VERY tough to praise 67 onward Beach Boys albums without running into the whole "I lost all interest after Pet Sounds" thing or stuff like "Anything not a Brian song sucks" like "Sail On Sailor is great, but the rest of Holland sucks" "20/20 sucks other than Cabinessence" etc etc etc..... It was rough.

and isn't is funny, a lot or some us LOVE Brian post 67!  Friends, Sunflower, bedroom tapes, love you......

My favourite period.... 65 - current!

RickB

Me too, but I'm just saying there's always been a chorus of folks waiting for "The Next Pet Sounds"

My fave period: 61 - present

Haven't people been basically unhappy with whatever Brian's doing since ............ 1967?

Think about it.....

And this is why, deep down, I'm happy we're getting all riled up here ...... Brian either does what he wants or what's the path of least resistance in order to get ....... what he wants.

Steak And Donuts

Frowny Frown..

Zooey Zoo

Brian Wilson Reimagines The Key Of Frank Ocean

Make Wilson, Not Love

KittyKat -- You don't have the slightest clue about how journalism works. Don't act like you do, and don't lecture people about it, because it only reveals the not-inconsiderable depths of your ignorance.

It is entirely appropriate to try to contact sources through the ways they're reachable. Van Dyke is very active on Twitter. There's nothing wrong about someone reaching out to VDP in that manner. His reaction has nothing to do with how he's approached, and everything to do with the fact he's on the outs with the BW camp these days.

As for you not believing what Fine writes about the origin of the album, what you say about him is actually libelous. Don't accuse journalists of fabricating things. We take that very seriously, and Fine's piece is quite carefully written. What he actually says is this:

"But last year he got the idea to bring in guest singers to finish the songs."

Fine doesn't say what guest singers. He could just as well be referring to Al and Blondie.

"Wilson had loved working with female vocalists since his early Beach Boys days, when he'd moonlight producing tracks for girl groups like the Honeys, which featured his first wife, Marilyn Rovell."

Nothing wrong there.

"He invited some of his favorite young singers to Ocean Way studios in Hollywood, including Lana Del Rey, Kacey Musgraves and Zooey Deschanel."

Again, Fine doesn't state that Brian knew who they were before this project began, or that he'd been buying their albums for years. He only says that these were some folks that he liked. It's possible that Universal gave him a stack of CDs to listen to and tell them which label mates he wanted on the record.

Now, there are some implications in the piece that may be a stretch, or that people might take the wrong way. But that doesn't mean it's not accurate, and it's most certainly not fabricated.

Wirestone, why are you attacking me personally? And why are you so butt-offended by what someone else says? I don't take back a single word of what I said. Not a word of it is libelous.  Wow, talk about over-sensitive.

Accusing someone of fabrication IS libelous.

The poster merely said they didn't believe the article!

Go ahead and take them to court on that.

Call Mike. He knows some good lawyers.

KittyKat -- You don't have the slightest clue about how journalism works. Don't act like you do, and don't lecture people about it, because it only reveals the not-inconsiderable depths of your ignorance.

It is entirely appropriate to try to contact sources through the ways they're reachable. Van Dyke is very active on Twitter. There's nothing wrong about someone reaching out to VDP in that manner. His reaction has nothing to do with how he's approached, and everything to do with the fact he's on the outs with the BW camp these days.

As for you not believing what Fine writes about the origin of the album, what you say about him is actually libelous. Don't accuse journalists of fabricating things. We take that very seriously, and Fine's piece is quite carefully written. What he actually says is this:

"But last year he got the idea to bring in guest singers to finish the songs."

Fine doesn't say what guest singers. He could just as well be referring to Al and Blondie.

"Wilson had loved working with female vocalists since his early Beach Boys days, when he'd moonlight producing tracks for girl groups like the Honeys, which featured his first wife, Marilyn Rovell."

Nothing wrong there.

"He invited some of his favorite young singers to Ocean Way studios in Hollywood, including Lana Del Rey, Kacey Musgraves and Zooey Deschanel."

Again, Fine doesn't state that Brian knew who they were before this project began, or that he'd been buying their albums for years. He only says that these were some folks that he liked. It's possible that Universal gave him a stack of CDs to listen to and tell them which label mates he wanted on the record.

Now, there are some implications in the piece that may be a stretch, or that people might take the wrong way. But that doesn't mean it's not accurate, and it's most certainly not fabricated.

Journalists put their work out there for the world to see and absorb/criticize/praise/agree with/disagree with/refute/defend ....... Nothing wrong with someone speaking their mind regarding a published article....

Along with your thinking though, couldn't Mike or Brian or Al or Dave or Bruce easily come on here blasting us saying "You guys don't have the slightest clue about Being a Beach Boy"? .....

C'mon man.

And you do realize you are responding to someone who is, you know, a journalist, right?

And I minored in journalism in college and have had journalistic items published over the years....  So what?

However, I'm not going on about the depth of other poster's ignorance, so I've no need to buffer up my qualifications.

Damn. Do you people ever just be glad that he's alive and still making new music? That is what we should talk about. Not all this feuding crap. This place is turning into the FECC forum. That place is full of negative argumentative people. Don't turn into that place. Don't ruin this place. Not many forums are good as this one. Please keep it that way.

Of course we're happy! But alive people making music also create anticipation and discussion!

The Beach Boys have such an insanely long and career, that it's nearly impossible to everyone to be on the same page!

Speaking your mind about an article is worlds different from accusing its author of fabrication.

Along with your thinking though, couldn't Mike or Brian or Al or Dave or Bruce easily come on here blasting us saying "You guys don't have the slightest clue about Being a Beach Boy"? .....

Of course they could. And they would be entirely within their not-inconsiderable rights to do so.

But we'd still sit here and talk about them all day/night, so allow someone to express their perhaps not so highly educated opinion. A journalism degree isn't required to read Rolling Stone, is it?

If a Beach Boy were to say that though, I'd say "Yeah, but you don't have the slightest clue about being a Beach Boys fan" ;P

KittyKat -- You don't have the slightest clue about how journalism works. Don't act like you do, and don't lecture people about it, because it only reveals the not-inconsiderable depths of your ignorance.

It is entirely appropriate to try to contact sources through the ways they're reachable. Van Dyke is very active on Twitter. There's nothing wrong about someone reaching out to VDP in that manner. His reaction has nothing to do with how he's approached, and everything to do with the fact he's on the outs with the BW camp these days.

As for you not believing what Fine writes about the origin of the album, what you say about him is actually libelous. Don't accuse journalists of fabricating things. We take that very seriously, and Fine's piece is quite carefully written. What he actually says is this:

"But last year he got the idea to bring in guest singers to finish the songs."

Fine doesn't say what guest singers. He could just as well be referring to Al and Blondie.

"Wilson had loved working with female vocalists since his early Beach Boys days, when he'd moonlight producing tracks for girl groups like the Honeys, which featured his first wife, Marilyn Rovell."

Nothing wrong there.

"He invited some of his favorite young singers to Ocean Way studios in Hollywood, including Lana Del Rey, Kacey Musgraves and Zooey Deschanel."

Again, Fine doesn't state that Brian knew who they were before this project began, or that he'd been buying their albums for years. He only says that these were some folks that he liked. It's possible that Universal gave him a stack of CDs to listen to and tell them which label mates he wanted on the record.

Now, there are some implications in the piece that may be a stretch, or that people might take the wrong way. But that doesn't mean it's not accurate, and it's most certainly not fabricated.

Journalists put their work out there for the world to see and absorb/criticize/praise/agree with/disagree with/refute/defend ....... Nothing wrong with someone speaking their mind regarding a published article....

Along with your thinking though, couldn't Mike or Brian or Al or Dave or Bruce easily come on here blasting us saying "You guys don't have the slightest clue about Being a Beach Boy"? .....

C'mon man.

I'm excited for this record. Seems like Brian is taking an author's or producer's approach to it. Like a Phil Spector or a Bob Crewe one. Brian's more hands-on than those two, of course, but this is a different setting for a BW album than it has been previously. I like to see Brian stretching his wings, trying different things while being himself. And everytime I hear a new great song from him (or a new song, whatsoever) I'm reminded about why I love this man's music, why it's been so crucial to my life, and how my understanding of music, art and beauty are shaped by this guy's music.

However, I must say I hate some of the promotional discourse-- I think it sucks; projects bitterness; feeds myths and exaggerations that rock journalists are prone to; and augments animosity between the fans. This whole "thanks to Mike Love being a jerk, Brian had to record this album as a solo with some help from the good guys" speech sucks. And Brian's people could certainly relieve us from reading that crap.

Agreed - that Facebook post was just a bad, bad move. A response to the scepticism shouldn't have been to instinctively jump to the defense that Mike is the square "don't f*** with the formula" bad guy to Brian's square genius (the idea that they encouraged that age-old idea anyway is bad) - it only served to increase fan animosity.

Maybe that was the gameplan all along...

Just like Al ditching out of Jones Beach.

..... Maybe he never intended on playing the gig from the get go.

Even those that have espoused the opinion that everything is Al's fault and he's the total d**k haven't suggested that. On the contrary in fact; it has been indecisiveness cited.

I seriously doubt one would leave themselves open to lawsuits and ill will from fans simply to make Mike look bad, especially when he does a fine job of that on his own.

As true as your last sentence might be, he's certainly had loads of help from others.

I'm excited for this record. Seems like Brian is taking an author's or producer's approach to it. Like a Phil Spector or a Bob Crewe one. Brian's more hands-on than those two, of course, but this is a different setting for a BW album than it has been previously. I like to see Brian stretching his wings, trying different things while being himself. And everytime I hear a new great song from him (or a new song, whatsoever) I'm reminded about why I love this man's music, why it's been so crucial to my life, and how my understanding of music, art and beauty are shaped by this guy's music.

However, I must say I hate some of the promotional discourse-- I think it sucks; projects bitterness; feeds myths and exaggerations that rock journalists are prone to; and augments animosity between the fans. This whole "thanks to Mike Love being a jerk, Brian had to record this album as a solo with some help from the good guys" speech sucks. And Brian's people could certainly relieve us from reading that crap.

Agreed - that Facebook post was just a bad, bad move. A response to the scepticism shouldn't have been to instinctively jump to the defense that Mike is the square "don't f*** with the formula" bad guy to Brian's square genius (the idea that they encouraged that age-old idea anyway is bad) - it only served to increase fan animosity.

Maybe that was the gameplan all along...

Just like Al ditching out of Jones Beach.

..... Maybe he never intended on playing the gig from the get go.

The only impact Brian's album is likely to make is to further stir up the pathetic Beach Boy "fan" camps.

Anything Beach Boys/Brian related (when it comes down to it) other than the hits is strictly hardcore-fans-only territory (yes, I know about all the Grammys and how many units TWGMTR sold, but I mean AN IMPACT)

And why would it ever be wrong to be a Mike Love fanboy? ..... No one's ever stepped up to the plate and answered that question without resorting to insults...... But when a "Mike Love fanboy" merely questions anything Brian's people do!!!!!! Shite hits the fan.

Sam Cooke - Live At The Harlem Club Square
Van Morrison - It's Too Late To Stop Now
Grateful Dead - Live/Dead
Miles Davis - Agharta/Pangaea
Allman Brothers Band - Live At The Fillmore
The Who - Live At Leeds
The Band - The Last Waltz
George Harrison - Concert for Bangladesh
Bob Dylan & The Band - Before The Flood
The Beach Boys - In Concert
Velvet Underground - Live At Max's Kansas City
Cheap Trick - At Budokan
Donovan - In Concert
James Brown - Live At The Apollo
Rolling Stones - Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out!
MC5 - Kick Out The Jams
Neil Young - Live Rust
Led Zeppelin - The Song Remains The Same

Eeek!!! How could we all have forgotten Cheap Trick: At Budokan until now???

Thank you!

May I note that not a single person on this board has heard more than a 10-second iPhone clip from this album?

... Apparently not.

Brian Wilson is not perfect, but he's no idiot. He can still write, arrange, sing and play. He's making a new record, and hopefully it will have some good tunes on it. He's worked with some younger singers, and folks involved feel positively about how the project is evolving (including folks from the outside like Ray Lawlor and Don Was, who have nothing to gain by lying to fans about a record's quality). So what is the problem?

It's going to be a splashy record, with big-name guests, released to coincide with a movie and book. It's a 21st-century multimedia extravaganza. It's why someone like Joe is still involved (making trains run on time), and why Brian still has a major-label deal. So I look forward to rolling with it and seeing what happens.

I think the problem with most of us who's expectations for the album are somewhat tempered, is just a nagging feeling that Joe Thomas is up to tricks that are not exactly in line with presenting the best Brian possible .... Given Brian's history, these are not illogical concerns. Like Savonarola with Botticelli, such situations don't generally end well.

For those interested in the behind-the-scenes elements, and it ties in with what I said about songwriting and collaboration, the musician who produced and played on the Fun album is named Jeff Bhasker. He originally wanted to become a jazz piano player, started playing keyboards for Kanye West, then got into production and songwriting.

Among the artists he's written for, with, and produced are Kanye, Jay Z, Rhianna, Alicia Keys, The Rolling Stones, Taylor Swift, and of course Fun.

It just shows how crossing genres and musical styles in modern songwriting and production is a lot more diverse than i think some listeners realize, and the same guy who wins a Grammy for a Kanye and Jay Z record can be in the studio working with the Stones, or Taylor Swift, or even creating songs that owe a debt of influence to bands like Queen or ELO to name two on Fun's sonic influences,  bringing the same kinds of methods and creativity to wildly different artists and styles, and having hit songs as a result.

I'm just mentioning that as well to tie in with the discussions about Brian Wilson working with artists not immediately associated with his own style, as it's not always about staying within one style or genre when it comes to creating music. It can bring out some interesting results musically and sonically when the lines are crossed, and what you'd expect to hear from a guy who produced rap hits isn't necessarily the case when the same guy with the same set of skills works with a band like Fun or even the Stones. It's not that unusual in that context to think of Frank Ocean singing on a Brian Wilson album.

Oh man! That's an endlessly fascinating subject that goes way way back!

McCartney writing for Badfinger, Prince writing for The Bangles, (here's a whole list of Prince songs that others made hits from: http://prince.org/msg/7/239543) ..... and on and on and on.

Ya know, a Foster The People collaboration could have been cool too!

He's not "turning into Phil Spector." You must suspend disbelief in order for the trick to work its magic.

So, no fright wigs? :/

Oddly i posted the above at the same time you posted your response! Meant to do ot as an edit.

What i mentioned above was not posted here  ,  but is an example of the mentality i was referring to. And of course you're entitled not to like her music. That's why i said in that post i wasnt referring to you. Hell, i'm not a fan of some artists that most people here like, but different strokes and all that. Hope i explained myself a bit better.

Yeah, understood!

I happen to be a somewhat big fan of Lana Del Rey, but still, a Brian duet with her seems unnecessary. I kinda just wish he'd just sing everything. I'm sure it will be great when it comes out, but until then, we shall yabber.

An example of an uninformed opinion...someone who later admitted they weren't familiar with Frank Ocean bitched and moaned that Brian was working with (and i quote)  'a hardcore gangsta rap thug'. Sigh.  Thats like saying Rod Stewart is like G.G. Allin beause they both have tattoos.

A Brian collaboration w a hardcore gangsta thug would be something to see!!!!

Thank you for summing up my feelings far better than I've been able to guitarfool.
Pinder, agreed it's just about opinions, but when they're uninformed, thats where i have an issue. Not referring to you,  but the mentality that GF pointed out. Not mentioning names, but it seems like some on this board(not just on this thread) seem to go out of their way to find something to complain about, facts be damned. And really, some people here will NEVER be happy, no matter what happens.

But what's this about uninformed opinions? What is this decision based upon? I've heard every She & Him album and have seen them live. It didn't make me much of a fan. And I knew about Zooey's Grammy. Am I not allowed to not be blown away by artistic material that I've taken in? I live her voice fine but am not really into the whole package. Isn't this a free country?

All that said, we are all free to have our opinions. And a messageboard is a place where we are free to air them. That's a reality check as well. It seems too often that a simple dissenting opinion is treated as an attack. No amount of qualifications can always make someone reconsider and like something that does not move them. I honestly don't see some M.O to trash or bash Brian, however we are allowed to have our opinions about anything he's doing and hash it out. There is no grand authority here that can make it illegal. Yet here you are trashing folk's opinions because they offend your own as if they've no more right to them than you to yours. And you're seeing conspiracies in there as well.... This is just a discussion board, man.

Either way, can we just agree I'm always right, funny, creative, insightful, and fucking handsome? Thanks.

Finally something we can all agree on  


I think it helps sometimes to sit back and remind ourselves (myself at least) that we're here discussing 50 of the most drama filled years of the most unique and all over the map people and music in history ..... Wildly disparate opinions come with the territory, and if they did not, something would surely be wrong.