Yup…and the converse as well

As The Beach Boys and Metallica are my two favorite bands , and Kate Bush is one of my daughter’s biggest influences, I might actually start watching the show even though I am not a TV person* by any stretch.

*Seriously. I watch stuff on YouTube mainly

When I first read the 85 version I was shocked at how balanced it was. I kinda was expecting something like the Gaines book to be honest

Awesome…thanks.

I literally had forgotten I owned the 85 version even though it’s been on my bookshelf staring at me longingly for ages 😂

Am considering purchasing when able to. How much new material is there? I own the 85 edition

Edit

I mean like where does it stop in the timeline? Asking after having read southbay’s post.

Made the mistake of reading the thread about this tour on Reddit on r/beachboys and I really wish I hadn’t.  If anybody thinks this or the other forum is too hostile and/or negative…sheesh. It was a bit revealing to see how this tour is looked at outside these circles but damn.

Ahh…gotcha. I was thinking something completely different

Going to choose what I say carefully, as this type of speculation makes me extremely uncomfortable but …

I’ve noticed a huge decline just from October. And hell, even from early last month (and that was a giant drop off from last fall). On a 4th of July photo I saw Brian looked alright but his hands didn’t look quite right, like due to paralysis. But…I have also seen him use his hands to adjust himself in his seat , and seen footage of him leaving with a walker. So…yeah I don’t know what this is about.  I’m starting to have an idea based on certain things I’ve noticed but I hope I’m wrong

Feel like I’m going to be sick

It’s been a few years since he’s given an interview, besides the occasional appearance with Brett Wilson on a zoom screen for a few minutes.

Has he been on camera extensively since the LPR footage, which I think was from 2017/2018? Only appearance I can think of is Love and Mercy/Do It Again in 2020, which was actually pretty good. He played the piano pretty well and I thought he looked good, having lost some weight.

Yeah, on Stephen Colbert months later and did even better including some higher singing .

 Going to choose what I say carefully, as this type of speculation makes me extremely uncomfortable but …

I’ve noticed a huge decline just from October. And hell, even from early last month (and that was a giant drop off from last fall). On a 4th of July photo I saw Brian looked alright but his hands didn’t look quite right, like due to paralysis. But…I have also seen him use his hands to adjust himself in his seat , and seen footage of him leaving with a walker. So…yeah I don’t know what this is about.  I’m starting to have an idea based on certain things I’ve noticed but I hope I’m wrong

Feel like I’m going to be sick

I think you can be happy to see that the band is still getting attention and still having products released all this time later, but that doesn't mean that any of us are required to automatically be satisfied with the products coming out.  People are allowed to offer criticisms (preferably constructively) if they are unhappy with the product (such as noting the awkwardness in audio of some of the new mixes).  That doesn't definitively mean they are ungrateful.  I agree that people are going a little overboard with some of the criticisms with the sound quality but it isn't completely an illegitimate complaint.  However I will completely agree that harrassing Howie and the team no matter how you feel about these products is completely wrong-headed and ridiculous.

agreed on all points here

Thank you for that! Means a lot to me 🙂

Not yet noted has been the addition of the black “privacy cloth” under the piano, concealing Brian’s hands and legs from the audience.

Wtf?!

I have some …questions… but at this point in time I’m not sure the best way to phrase anything

Brian’s been doing that a lot this tour (re:singing low) . I think it’s hard for him to be able to take a deep enough breath to be able to hit certain notes , or rather certain transitions. I wouldn’t be surprised if that has a lot to do with what’s going on…me personally that would have a negative effect mentally.

Actually this is a great look into the philosophy of each forum. Petsite posted the same thing on the EH forum, and the response from leadership is quite different there than here. Billy agreed with the initial post and explained his perspective. DrBeachBoy on the other hand states there are no "Kum-bay-a moments" on these forums. literally painting himself as a Wyatt Earp character protecting the streets. Only given the recent dust-up with Howie Edelson, he is not as he says "trying to keep the peace" but he is a huge part of the reason why Howie Edelson walked out of Tombstone under a barrage of insults from a vast swath of members there.

It is stupid board drama, but it is rooted in the fact that a lot of posters were booted off of here for breaking forum rules - then they all congregated on the PS forum and then the EH forum. So when those people who broke rules continue to lie about people here, when they continue to insult people, of course we are going to set the record straight. When a Beach Boys insider gets run out of Dodge, I think it's fair to comment on the reasons it happened.

The silly thing is that I was really hoping that this set would bring a lot of people together - it is an amazing set with some really good mixes. But instead it just further divided people. Like Howie says, we don't all need to think the same exact way and have the same taste (what a boring world that would be). But there is such a thing as having tact/respect when talking to (and about) the people who have made it their life mission to make sure The Beach Boys keep releasing tracks.

Yep. The messed up part is, for many years many of us wanted desperately for The Beach Boys to be looked at how they actually were… an innovative band that ranks up there with the very best bands  in history , and were not a “guilty pleasure” that were only relevant for a few years. Guess what…we won.  Sadly, now many long term fans are saying “no they were never as good “ and that’s it’s foolish to “pretend” that they were ever “cool”.  That’s why I said what I said the other day about how “everyone loves The Beach Boys…except their own fans”.
 
Now why that is, that’s the million dollar question. My own personal belief is that it took too long for some people. It’s a fact of life that as people get older, many of them resent the younger generations for no other reason than it’s not them. I got called ageist the other day for saying that (not here) but it’s true. There’s a certain sense of entitlement that comes with getting older. (And I do get it, I mean I’m not exactly in my 20s. I’m way closer to the grave vs the cradle. So yeah I include myself too; I just possess enough self awareness to fight that off and try like hell to become what I don’t like. ) So they see the band getting popular with 20 somethings and under , and resent the fact that’s the target audience now. Well, the 18-34 demographic is focused on by *everyone* in the entertainment industry for a damn good reason . If Iconic were to ignore that, well…yeah. That would be absolutely terrible in a business sense. But yeah, that’s where a lot of the current resentment comes, and it’s rather sad and pathetic.  It’s this “ me me me” attitude, and “f*ck  everyone else” that I quite frankly despise. I read that some people don’t want there to be any future sets now. I mean, they could just not buy it. But nope, NOBODY should be allowed to have it, cause they don’t like it. I just will never understand that attitude

Hopefully I explained myself well enough, and that I’m talking about 3-4 people only* and not everyone who didn’t like the new mixes. I mean, it should’ve obvious especially since I’ve said it multiple times, but I’m so used to people taking things I say the wrong way (not just online) that I’m a bit shell shocked.

Yea. And I want to add that I really feel for you, and honestly for anyone else trying to moderate an online community in this day and age, or even just put something positive out into the world of the internet. I definitely appreciate all the unpaid work that goes into keeping a board like this a (relatively) fun and comfortable place for people to chat about music, and the fact that the people doing that work too often get paid with a lot of stupid negativity and just...unwillingness to even try to be sympathetic or even like basically decent is pretty sad...

👍

I’m hoping it doesn’t do the opposite

See, here’s the deal…I agree. That’s why I have such a huge problem with people talking about boycotts and personally insulting Howie and Mark. I don’t care who’s doing what and where; it’s disgraceful regardless. Criticism is fine; that isn’t. People like that to me are scum. Speaking for myself , it’s not restricted to forums , because I’ve seen posts there with the same position I have, and posts here that I reacted quite strongly too. So , speaking strictly for myself (I dont like to speak for anyone else…that’s just how I am) I’m reiterating it’s not forum based in my opinion

Please don't take this personally, but I do think even here, you know, the rhetoric could be toned down. Are these people really "scum"? Are they really worthless and disgusting? I would guess that most of them have and all of them have had families, people that love them, good days and bad days. I agree with you 100% about the behaviors you're talking about. That kind of *behavior* is despicable. There is no excuse for it in any context, let alone the context of an online forum devoted to a band founded in 1962 for God's sake. These people have *lost the thread* (excuse the pun). But they're not scum and personally I just don't think thinking of them that way helps anyone. Not to say your anger and frustration is not understandable, but I feel like it's almost always more productive to call out the behavior than the person.

Oh I definitely follow you and what you’re saying… it’s just that I have a major issue when I see people’s parenting abilities being questioned. That was entirely uncalled for. When I read Rick Bartlett referring to the members here as bottom feeders, that’s one thing. It’s board drama. I don’t like it, but I consider the source .  Same with this crap

SS banned people left and right that dared to criticize any of Brian’s shortcomings AND worse banned people left and right that stood up for Mike.

. All I can do is point out that’s a lie (which it is) and ask again for one example (which I’ll never get , because there are none ). That comes with the territory of being online, much less a mod. Does speak volumes about character, but it’s a mere annoyance. That’s not what I’m referring to, at all. What I’m talking about is the same behavior that got these specific people banned from here in the first place…the fact that the small handful of people I’m referring to are still acting the same way )and worse in some cases), my ability to bite my tongue is lessened. That goes beyond having a bad day and into the realm of personality defects.

Hopefully I explained myself well enough, and that I’m talking about 3-4 people only* and not everyone who didn’t like the new mixes. I mean, it should’ve obvious especially since I’ve said it multiple times, but I’m so used to people taking things I say the wrong way (not just online) that I’m a bit shell shocked.

The thing that is insulting about that thread is you had an admin responding to the OP saying “guys, we chased him off” with basically “good! He deserved it!”.  The rancor never should have gotten to that level and, by example, it was cheered on by aforementioned admin. You don’t like the mixes, fine.  But the dog piling got uncomfortably close to a cancellation attempt and that’s disturbing.

Exactly

Haven't been posting as of late. Been really under the weather. But I did want to say something about all of the bashing that is taking place on both boards. It's one of the reasons I did not post during most the last two years. People cooped up inside because of Covid did not help the situation. So much anger. I could not take it.

When people use to disagree, it was "Hey, that is your opinion. I don't agree with it, but, hey I like what I like." In so many arguments anymore, it has become "THAT'S your opinion? What kind of shallow end of the gene pool are you from. I hope you get hit by a plane falling out of the sky that kills your whole family. THIS OPINION HERE is the only one to have!!!! GO AWAY AND NEVER COME BACK!"

While that last statement is an exaggeration, there is a lot of "you only think that way because you're a moron" kind of speech.

This music is precious and finite. There will NEVER be a catalog of work like this ever again. And it took FIVE people to bring it to pass. No less than that. While I don't like everyone in the group, they ALL played an integral part in bring this music to life AND to keep it going for 60+ years.

So next time someone wants to throw sh*t at each other, SMILEY board here and ENDLESS HARMONY board there, remember that there is a common thread that binds us. Forget that, and we forget the reason we started on this journey in the first place.

See, here’s the deal…I agree. That’s why I have such a huge problem with people talking about boycotts and personally insulting Howie and Mark. I don’t care who’s doing what and where; it’s disgraceful regardless. Criticism is fine; that isn’t. People like that to me are scum. Speaking for myself , it’s not restricted to forums , because I’ve seen posts there with the same position I have, and posts here that I reacted quite strongly too. So , speaking strictly for myself (I dont like to speak for anyone else…that’s just how I am) I’m reiterating it’s not forum based in my opinion

Edit

Forum specific, I meant

Speaking of Paul, the online comments I’ve seen about his recent show have been around the same level of Brian’s . This is kind of uncharted territory as this is the first generation of musicians to be active and still relevant at their age. I remember The Beach Boys and McCartney seeming old and washed up in the 80s… and they were way younger than generation who came after that are still active today. Look at someone like Metallica… those are guys around 60. Debuted on the 80s and still kicking multiple varieties of ass onstage. Chuck Berry stayed on til the end, but his recording career was comparatively brief. How many bands started adding auxiliary members as they got older, which wasn’t really a thing for following generations. Compare Dave Grohl in his mid 50s to pretty much anybody who debuted in the 70s at the same age. There might be a time where people Paul and Brian’s current age won’t age as “bad” onstage.

https://twitter.com/emilybrooksnews/status/1476714669293375490?s=21&t=dXN-MiaGjNvZrdHUlP-ZkA

Remember when this Twitter thread went viral?  Look at some of the responses. There is STILL a problem with how the BB are perceived. I know we fans think “who cares? Those snooty snobs are the ones missing out.” And maybe that’s true to an extent.

But this band DESERVES to be mentioned in the same breath as the Beatles.  In order to have a chance of that happening while it still matters, you can’t really emphasize the Mike Love-styled way they’ve presented themselves in the last several decades (even if fans are now OK with it). I’m sorry fans’ feathers got ruffled with how Howie explained it, but he was speaking truth. And it is this fresh mindset that resulted in Feel Flows.  I’d rather have that the way it is presented than not have it all. To think that some don’t want that kind of stuff because of biases or upset feelings kinda makes me sad.

Completely agree

Billy doing doo-wop?

All kidding aside, I actually have previously!

"terrei" -

Stay down.

You're not going to out-wit me, you're not going to out-"mean" me.
You're flailing.

Stay down.

But he must unleash the wrath of the Almighty Maltshop Memories Nerds on us all!

I think you just titled the song I’m working on …thanks 😆

The continuing attempts to personally attack and smear Howie and Mark over this release shows the true character of the places (or place) where it's coming from. No matter how much someone dislikes these mixes, to say publicly that a three-time Grammy winning engineer should be fired over mixes "fans" don't like is absolutely one of the most disgusting things I've read in this whole scene. And considering where this kind of pure hatred (or whatever it is) is coming from, and the history of similar comments, I think it says most of what people would need to know about those circles of "fans".

And I agree with Howie and the others who mentioned it, the lack of anyone speaking up in their defense is pretty damn sad. Barely anyone there seems to speak up in their defense. But maybe in some places like that either people are afraid to speak up or not allowed to speak up like that.

Howie and Mark are the heroes here, the people who know understand that.

If people don't like the mixes and it upsets them enough to drive them to personally attack people, join the boycott crew over there.

Never mind the fact that some of them keep putting “engineers” in quotes.  That’s the type of sh*t I’m talking about.  I’d like to see their resume and have it compared to Mark’s. I wonder who has more Grammys. I wonder how good of a job they’re do working with 50 + year old tapes, some recently discovered and hadn’t been taken care of the same way the stuff in the “vaults” have.  

Oh and another thing…some (not all, not most…SOME)of the complaints about the final sound actually stem from issues in the (re)mastering process, NOT the mixing! Saying that because if someone is going to be highly insulting towards someone who has been doing this for many years and start acting like they know more, they might want to actually brush up on what’s actually what.

Yup. I mean, I’ve talked about having been recording my own band for 21 years…but I have longer experience working with others AND this is what I majored in in college as well! Hell, right now this and disability checks are what’s putting (some) food on the table!

Assumptions are a hell of a thing