The Smiley Smile Message Board

I'm a loyal Beach Boys fan, collecting their recordings since 1968, and I've got all of the officially released recordings(at least up until Brian Wilson left the group), and all of the Capitol & Brother unreleased material that has ever escaped onto bootlegs. Of course, I've bought all of the Mark Linett-mixed/compiled archival CD's that Capitol has released, however, subsequent to 2008 there have been no more archival CD's, though it wasn't for a lack of effort by Mr.Linett.  If the surviving Beach Boys are not going to permit any further archival projects(and it now known that they won't permit any archival projects for the group's 50th anniversary), then I guess this is the end of the road after more than four decades of collecting. Maybe with the future of Capitol's parent company EMI in question, Capitol is in no condition to release any more Beach Boys CD product. And perhaps Brian Wilson & Mike Love simply don't need the money that these archival projects would have generated.

That's the saddest post I ever read. Let's hope your wrong...I think in time more music will see the light of day- if we learned anything from this band it is to expect the unexpected.

I'm going to move this into the main forum, because I think this is a subject that could produce a wonderful discussion.

I was wondering the same thing myself. For me, the holy grail of unreleased recordings I must hear before I die are two '74 recordings...California Feeling and Lucy Jones. Apart from those two and a few others listed on Bellagio, there's nothing really left, at least out of stuff that still exists.

Really ? I would dearly love to know your source for such a sweeping statement, contentious as it is.

A wise AG e D man once told me there is plaenty more out there to hear

Same guy told me exactly the same... with the rider that some of it really wasn't worth hearing.  ::)

Been wondering the same thing tho'  - after decades of buying almost exclusively BBs and related stuff, I've more recently been collecting Neil Young, The Beatles, and Bob Dylan. I know it's frustration at the lack of Beach Boys product cos I don't even like The Beatles and Bob Dylan.*

I still hope there'll be a monster box out for Christmas 2011.

* If I find myself collecting Elton John, then I'll know there's no hope whatsoever.

I was thinking the same thing...

California Feeling http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAqa-Aa0CKI (i think...)

Nope, this is a later recording (1978), not the original 1974 recording Billy is talking about. The recording from 1974 hasn't been booted.

Then somebody has to "take the bull by the horns" ! 
If the people that have the still unreleased songs would just start posting them (say one every 6 months? ) to a sendspace or similar, even if they were removed quickly, they'd start circulating. that might push Brian, Mike, whomever to release approved versions. Hey, what can it hurt?!
Wish I had some to get it started... 

 The only other scenario I see: a glut of releases by the widows. ( Mike will have how many?)

A "widow," generally speaking is "validly married" in the jurisdiction (not including common law, without a legally recognized ceremony) at the time of her spouse's death...

Former or "ex-wives" are "former spouses" ("former spouse" is a more "civilized" term, in my opinion) and not "widows."

Without getting into all the legal terminology, there is only one "widow."  (not legal advice)  ;)

huh

Only Mormons and radical Muslims can have more than one widow. sh*t, Idi Amin had quite a few!

I tried to keep the definition ''narrow" because marriage, divorce and family law in general are changing and evolving so quickly. 

Generally in a traditional marriage, and some US states have "enlarged that scope" (not to include plural or successive marriages)
but there is only "one surviving spouse."    ;)

Mike, thankfully, looks robust and  in glowing health and does not look as if he is going "anywhere celestial," any time soon.   ;) 

If you are a bona fide Beach Boys collector, then I assume you have all the Japan Pastmasters releases of the Capitol albums?  When there isn't "new" (or newly released old) material to collect, you can collect different releases of the same material that are significantly different in sound.  The Pastmasters were made from flat transfers of the master tapes, without EQ or noise reduction - and so are the most accurate releases reflecting the sound of the original tape masters.  Then there's the DCC and/or Audio Fidellity Pet Sounds, which are a no brainer for a collector and which I assume you have.

A true BB collector needs to have some vinyl as well - the Austrailian Rarities, for example, and even more important the otherwise unavailable Brian mixed mono masters of Surfin' USA, Surfer Girl, SHut Down Vol 2, the Christmas album, All Summer Long, Little Deuce Coupe.

These are all worth collecting, but if you still aren't satisfied, there's the 45 picture sleeves!

Not to mention the numerous songs that have single (often mono) mixes that differ significantly from the album (usually stereo) mixes, making them worthwhile to track down in their own right.

Hold up. So is there any reasonable source that says we won't be getting any unreleased material next year? Or is this just all conjecture. I could think of quite a few things I'd love to hear....say "California Feelin'"  from '74 and "Where Is She?". I'd be pretty happy if I heard those 2. And possibly anymore Brian vocals from before the major voice change.

Anyways, I have to imagine there must be some kinda rarities thing coming. Many of the top tier artists has done it at least once, or possibly many times by now....Elvis Costello, The Band, Bob Dylan, John Lennon, etc. The guys really just skirted the surface on the box set. And the 70's two-fers didn't even have any unreleased tracks. I think at least a new double albums worth of strictly unreleased material would be great. Or maybe straight album reissues with bonus tracks making up for the usually very short running times.

It would make the most sense, obviously, to re-release all of their albums from 1962-77 (or up to 1985 for those of you that actually like what came after, God forbid) in deluxe editions. The first disc could be the album proper in mono and/or stereo (where applicable), and the second disc could be album- and era-related B-sides, outtakes, rarities, and so on. This would be especially useful as, if I'm remembering correctly, someone here mentioned that all the twofers are now out-of-print -- and it'd allow folks to get to know the BBs again a little more completely and accurately as some delightful historical revisionism, showcasing how worthwhile they were musically even if they were grossly under-appreciated from 1967 onwards (and still are to this day as we know all too well here). The liner notes would, of course, take a historical approach to the group and their music while at the same time looking at their contemporary influence too.

Yeah, I know this will definitely not happen but... it did for The Monkees, and surely The Beach Boys warrant such a treatment too. This should have happened already, frankly...

a bit off topic, but is there anything in the Beatles archives worth releasing that might see the light of day?
I know the Let it Be film (with loads of outtakes and features) is in order.
But musically is there anything else out there?

Lots of unreleased material.   Live, boots, soundboards, commercial spots..enough for several releases;  ...all ripe for a clean up and official release with nice packaging.

Another box is in order as well.  The Byrds did it.  Why not the Beachboys?

Do the owners of this material ever visit this or any other websites where the worldclass diehard fans reside?

Might not sell a million but would certainly be a shot in the arm for the catalogue and the brand in general.

But WTF do I know?   I'm the guy who said the cameo parkway catalogue should have been released 10 years sooner.  Instead it was released with a whimper , too late, too little fanfare, instead of when those who might have enjoyed hearing this in the hayday of oldies radio were still alive/listening.

If not now .....WHEN????

Among other things, the 22 minute jam session of Helter Skelter and Carnival of Light. There's some things that didn't make the cut on Anthology in 1995. And if they did an SOT type release of the Beatles sessions in the 60's or a live box, that would be something. There's a TON of unreleased cuts from the White, Get Back/Let It Be sessions. 

Yeah, I've heard a lot of the Get Back era stuff, but there's still some stuff I haven't heard. Carnival of Light is like the holy grail of unreleased stuff for the Beatles; but I've heard it's not really that good, that Revolution 9 was ten times better. I've got the Anthology outtakes, it's really good, though I was disappointed as it stopped after Magical Mystery Tour/Across the Universe.

Revolution 9 is in circulation now.

right, the comparison was to show another sound collage song, in this case, Lennon's Revolution 9 being superior to Macca's Carnival of Light...or so I've heard, I don't really know that.

I think he means the uncut Revolution 1 part of which became 9.

now I'm confused.  ::)

What he means is Revolution 1 (Take 20), which is the full master of the White Album tune wherein John & Yoko get crazy during a really extended fade out. It's amazing. Bits of it pop up in Revolution 9, such as Yoko going 'You become naked', etc. It rocks.

Nope, this is a later recording (1978), not the original 1974 recording Billy is talking about. The recording from 1974 hasn't been booted.
[/quote]

My bad... Does anyone know what the difference between the two versions is?

Yep. That's the one.

Back to the thread, more or less, it's not just quiet on the official releases front; the cobblers also seem to have run out of material, other than resoling already released gigs and putting out stuff that's available at Wolfgang's Vault.

When was the last substantial glass slipper of studio outtakes etc?

Ummm... I'm thinking In The Beginning and All This Is That (although you could say the latter is largely upgrades). Prior to that, I guess Get The Boot.

Allegedly, of course, as I don't know anything about these things other than what I've been told, it being that I don't have any copies, because that would be wrong, wouldn't it ?

Ahh no, definitely not wrong to find as much music from the bands you love.
WRONG for them to keep it from us, yes!
Wrong to try and sell it without giving the band their share; heck, if someone were to somhow find some unreleased songs that weren't owned by a record company, and pay the band royalties up-front, in anticipation  of  sales, what would be wrong with that?

Ah, but then maybe you'd be compromising the artist's right to decide what is done with his/her creations. If David Hockney throws an unsatisfactory sketch in the bin, is it in order for someone to root through the bin, iron the creases out and sell it at auction? Or is that theft?

If AGD deletes the fist draft of his Mike Love Biography, but some computer whizz hacks his PC and retrieves it from his trash, is he entitled to print it up and sell copies on eBay?

Grey areas, grey areas...

Whenever speaking about the Beach Boys, The AMERICAN Band, please use the proper spelling. 
It's GRAY.

OK, who's making with the loose lips ?  ::)

Heck, I thought that was obvious from Wee Helper's post.

Sorry, that should have been FIRST draft. A FIST draft is an entirely different form of literature.

There's probably about another hour's worth of Beatles alternate arrangements remaining, but no further unreleased songs.

Getting back on topic... yes, the original poster makes a very good point.

When was the last legitimate archival release of any significance?  Hawthorne, CA?  And when did that come out?  2001?   

Let's face it.  We were spoiled in the '90s with the 1993 box, the Pet Sounds box and Endless Harmony. 

Hopefully, the long dry spell will end soon, but I'm not holding my breath.

Maybe it's just me but I'd like to hear the Durrie Parks acetates.

Carnival of Light isn't a sound collage though. It's drums, guitar and two organs playing live with John and Paul shouting over the top of it. Totally different than Revolution 9.

It's not just you...let's hope they somehow got archived.

Has everything from SMiLE been booted? Like what about the (rumored) second movement of Surf's Up, do the tapes of that supposed session exist?

Not in the vaults, apparently.

I believe (going by memory here, which is always a dangerous thing where Wee Helper's concerned...) there's a Child version we're missing, which will hopefully be one of the jewels of the next archive release, whenever the BBs sanction such.  Not sure whether it's an alt take, an alt version, an alt mix, a version with lyrics or what. Maybe one of our celebrated archivists, or honoured guests, can shed light?

I'm beginning to wonder if the Durrie Parks acetates really exist. It's been rumored for years. Or maybe she is waiting for a formal Smile release before she shares them. Wonder if her "Acetates" have already been booted. Has she found them yet? Hell, Jardine knows where his Heroes & Villains acetate is, doesn't he?

I wonder if she regards them as highly as we do. Maybe they're in a trunk in her garage, getting knocked about and pranged every time the car shifts into reverse by accident. They're just artefacts of her ex-husbands former employment, after all.

If you count live albums: Live at Knebworth in 2002.

The Brian mixed instrumental track of Child (about 3 minutes long) hasn't been released, and of course should be - but it has been booted.  

If you look at Beach Boys archive material that hasn't been booted, the most obvious material suitable for release is LIVE stuff - the unreleased tracks from Sacramento 64, Chicago 65, the winter 67 tour, then various live 68-73 dates.  And of course official release of Michigan 66 and Hawaii 67.  The Good vibrations box set tour which may be the best concerts the Beach Boys ever gave.  Etc.

What happened to Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again?  I always thought that was supposed to be the most wanted unreleased track outside of Smile, and it supposed to be released of a DVD-A version of Surf's Up.  Have people give up on it?

Not really given up, it is STILL one of the most desired tracks -  AGD sings its praises which is good enough endorsement for me. It's just not in our hands, I guess.  I'm sure some super collector has it on his shelves somewhere but is sworn to secrecy.  Like an itch that needs to be scratched though, he/she might have a burning desire to share it (a la Get The Boot, All This Is That, Secret Smile, etc etc etc), and the only way for BRI to prevent that is to sanction an official release.

I hope.   :hat

There's a great cover of it by Adam Marsland and his Chaos Band - so far that's the only version of it I've ever heard.  Guess Adam Heard the original somewhere - via Alan Boyd (who plays on this version)  perhaps?

WIBNTLA is a great, dynamic song.  I was lucky enough to hear it 3 times at
Susan Lang's 2005 convention in Connecticut.  I sure hope to hear it again while I'm still around...

Are you going somewhere?

I think he means during his life time.

Not to be pessimistic, but I don't think we'll ever hear that or the songs I mentioned in this thread, at least not as far as a release is concerned. Also, if they were going to be booted, it would've happened already.

Adam's outstanding version is very faithful to the original - if you've not got his Long Promised Road CW/DW live tribute CD go to Amazon and buy it now: the whole album is just stunning.

One more time.  The 93 box tour deserves a release.  A no brainer.  C'mon!    Good Vibrations LIVE.   It would sell well if packaged and promoted right.

Another Hawthorne is very do-able.   But 30 years of GV live would sell.  Maybe a lot. 


Or make it 50 years of GV  as a box to replace the 93 box.
 Include "I'll Bet Hes Nice" in demo form,   pieces from GTB, Soul Searchin, SNJ, remaining SMiLE bits, ....and select bits from the PS box could be included along with other material not on the 1st box.

Call the new box "The Beach boys; Life is for the Living-  50 years of Very Good Vibrations"...and have that as the title cut.

I was thinking that Capitol needs to do a new box set of rarities for the 50th anniversary.

Hey. It could happen.   :-D

All rather depends if Capitol is still around next summer.

Good point.

I want a Summer In Paradise Sessions 4-CD Box Set. Desperately so.

Maybe Vivendi (parent company of Universal) will snap up EMI. I wouldn't be surprised. I don't know if I see Sony doing it. Of course, it would be ironic if Warners bought EMI...oh, we're picking right up where 1978 left off!

If they're not going to be around, will they have a garage sale of all the tapes in their vaults?

 :lol post of the day... I can see all of us now, at that sale, armed to the hilt, cursing and threatening, waving cheques up to $ 1 M; and in the end our not-so-friendly global moderators will snap everything up and disappear into space with Branson's new rocket planes.

Sometimes the world is sh*t.  Total sh*t.

Yes...I had really, really hoped that profits from The Beatles box sets would be enough to keep Capitol afloat...but I suppose most of those millions went directly to EMI rather than Capitol.  Speaking of which, does anyone know what kind of shape EMI is in, as opposed to Capitol? 

Fortunately we only have much-too-friendly moderators here...

We are all friendly. I'm like Mary Poppins, only more practically perfect in every way. :)

I think it is parent company EMI that is in the most trouble, no?

I think The Beatles remastered catalog now being on iTunes might either help or hurt them. It all depends on where the money's going. Considering how Apple Corps. have been handling their royalties for the past couple of decades, it's safe to say that most of the profit is going to benefit people in The Beatles camp.

Maybe Coldplay can put out a new album and save Capitol?  ;D

There is more than enough for a nice Smile set plus another set of songs. Whether or not such releases would be more appropriate for a Rhino Handmade type of release would be a question to ponder. Personally I thinl there could be a novel approach such as a set with themed cds such as a Dennis`s Best cd, Carl`s Best cd, a Brian cd, Alan, Mike.....There is a market if the sets are well assembled.

Perhaps the money will go towards a release of the Let It Be film?

who am i kidding, i'm just teasing myself.

They should do a remix album like the Beatles did with Love.  To be honest I don't know why they haven't yet.  To be extra honest I didn't buy Love though (or download it) so maybe that's not a good idea, lol.




As for all the Beatles money helping EMI, etc they may be hurting, but damn look how well Michael Jackson's kids have it now.  They're making 100's of millions of dollars off this crap and all they have to do is buy a few new video games and the ipods and whatever the kids buy these days.  EMI and Capitol are sweating bullets even with all that cash, and these kids are also intertwined with it and just stacking up dough.  They probably can't even spend most of it if they wanted to.  Such a weird juxtaposition, EMI going broke and in the same business transaction these children are amassing perpetual fortunes. 

Finally, a good excuse to download stuff illegally.  ;)

Wouldn't It Be Nice to Live Again

Child Is Father of the Man

Sail on Sailor (demo)...doesn't it exist, somehwere?

Love You instrumentals

Any BB instrumentals that haven't swelled to the surface...as goes sessions...like 'Til I Die

Whatever 1971 additions were done to the SMiLE trax...

There's lots of goodies out there, in time many will see the light of day....

All kidding aside...if/when it ever goes tits up, I wonder how much money we here at the board could possibly raise. Wouldn't it be nice (pun intended) if we could end up with those tapes ^_^

Hmmm -  okay, what rights do I get if I chip in a tenner?  Who gets to look after them? Can I make copies for friends?

You are correct.