Title: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Amy B. on August 17, 2010, 05:16:54 AM From the NY Times...
“Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin” (Disney Pearl) What do George Gershwin and the Beach Boys’ prime mover, Brian Wilson, have in common? A jaunty, exuberant tunefulness for one thing, and a desire to push pop into high-art territory for another. In “Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin,” Mr. Wilson dresses Gershwin tunes in surfer attire. With varying degrees of success he turns the melodies into post-Beach Boys pop with stacked harmonies performed in a barbershop tradition that erases vocal individuality for the sake of a creamy harmonic blend. The best cut is a pulsing, bouncy “They Can’t Take That Away From Me,” in which Mr. Wilson sounds like a child in the throes of puppy love jumping for joy. “I’ve Got a Crush on You,” garnished with piano triplets, is taken back to the happy days of early rock ’n’ roll. An instrumental “I Got Plenty o’ Nuttin’ ” is the best section of a four-song medley from “Porgy and Bess” that also includes “Summertime,” “I Loves You, Porgy” and “It Ain’t Necessarily So.” The arrangement, featuring banjo, harmonicas and several percussion instruments, evokes lazy 1930s summer afternoons shuffling down a dirt road, fishing rod in hand. The medley’s embarrassing low point, “I Loves You, Porgy,” sung by Mr. Wilson, feebly trying for melodrama, demonstrates the overall uninterest in lyrics on an album in which the arrangement, not the singer, does the interpretive work. Two beyond-the-grave “collaborations” — obscure minor Gershwin tunes outfitted with wispy lyrics by Mr. Wilson and the instrumentalist Scott Bennett — are throwaways. Then there’s “I Got Rhythm,” arranged as a trudging surf-style anthem with martial syncopation. A similar approach to the song was taken by the Happenings, whose hit version in 1967 had a fluency and lightness that is missing in this too self-conscious one. On an album that feels like a posthumous competition, Mr. Wilson emerges the clear loser. STEPHEN HOLDEN Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: The Heartical Don on August 17, 2010, 05:23:48 AM Pretty downbeat, yes. But I am very curious what the guys and gals here will make of his criticism song for song. I haven't heard the album yet, so that makes it even more interesting.
Tks for posting Amy. Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: oldsurferdude on August 17, 2010, 06:38:19 AM Holden used to write for RS -maybe he still does-he always reviewed the BB's quite favorably.
Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Andrew G. Doe on August 17, 2010, 06:45:52 AM "In “Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin,” Mr. Wilson dresses Gershwin tunes in surfer attire."
Think you can stop right there and ignore the rest. Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: The Heartical Don on August 17, 2010, 06:48:34 AM "In “Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin,” Mr. Wilson dresses Gershwin tunes in surfer attire." Think you can stop right there and ignore the rest. It's an idiotic sentence indeed. Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Wirestone on August 17, 2010, 07:06:12 AM Jon Pareles at the NYT tends to like BW's stuff -- but he had some Mellencamp to write about, seems like.
The reviews of this are truly all over the place. From raves to generally positive to mixed to outright pans (with most falling on the upper half). The Porgy medley seems to be a real point of contention. It's clearly a confusing record to some people unfamiliar with Brian and the group, much less so to those who know the tale. And some reviewers just can't stand standards records. Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: rab2591 on August 17, 2010, 07:06:41 AM Jeesh this is a terrible review.
"Mr. Wilson dresses Gershwin tunes in surfer attire." I've listened to the album twice and I've yet to hear any of these songs in 'surfer attire'....Honestly, do any of these songs have a 'surfin' USA' feel to them? Even 'Catch A Wave'? I don't hear it. (did this man even listen to 'Someone to Watch Over Me' or 'S'wonderful'?) Another thing: it seems as if he uselessly points out the obvious: "With varying degrees of success he turns the melodies into post-Beach Boys pop with stacked harmonies performed in a barbershop tradition that erases vocal individuality for the sake of a creamy harmonic blend." This sounds like a man who could honestly care less about the music and would rather show the world how much redundancy he can cram into one sentence. "Mr. Wilson sounds like a child in the throes of puppy love jumping for joy." - with writing like this I'm really surprised that readership of the NYT is going down :lol Granted, I agree with him that 'I Loves You, Porgy' was a terrible choice. I can't stand that song - I mean, there HAS to be a slew of other Gershwin songs that are far more beautiful (lyrically and melodically) than 'I Loves You Porgy'. I also agree that 'I Got Rhythm' could have been better. I'm so glad there are many other reviews of BWRG where it sounds like the person writing actually knows a thing or two about Beach Boys music (ie, they're not just a surfing group)... Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Wirestone on August 17, 2010, 07:10:00 AM To me, "I Loves You Porgy" exemplifies everything that makes BWRG a great record.
It's a little bizarre, it's somewhat awkward, but Brian clearly cares deeply about the song and is going to sing it no matter what. His voice is terrific, and the arrangement (featuring a wailing theremin) has more layers than you might think. It's that moment where Brian bares his soul. Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: rab2591 on August 17, 2010, 07:14:40 AM To me, "I Loves You Porgy" exemplifies everything that makes BWRG a great record. It's a little bizarre, it's somewhat awkward, but Brian clearly cares deeply about the song and is going to sing it no matter what. His voice is terrific, and the arrangement (featuring a wailing theremin) has more layers than you might think. It's that moment where Brian bares his soul. Very true, and I think the inclusion of 'I Loves You Porgy' shows how much control Brian had over the project, imo....I mean, if you were a Disney exec I'm pretty sure 'I Loves You Porgy' would be your last choice for BWRG. Brian's voice is amazing in it, and I like the arrangement, but I can't get past the lyrics. Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Shady on August 17, 2010, 07:16:01 AM Couldn't make it all the way through
Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: punkinhead on August 17, 2010, 07:25:27 AM These are just like the people who reviewed GIOMH and said Desert Drive proved he couldn't get out of the surfer style of music.
Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: carl r on August 17, 2010, 07:27:49 AM In case it hasn't been posted, here's The Happenings version of 'I Got Rhythm'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK62pW35GIw Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: The Heartical Don on August 17, 2010, 07:39:09 AM These are just like the people who reviewed GIOMH and said Desert Drive proved he couldn't get out of the surfer style of music. ...and the people who perhaps commented that SIP was a grandiose return to their peak form of being America's no. 1 surf music group. Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Menace Wilson on August 17, 2010, 08:01:56 AM Quote In “Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin,” Mr. Wilson dresses Gershwin tunes in surfer attire. False. Quote The medley’s embarrassing low point, “I Loves You, Porgy,” sung by Mr. Wilson, feebly trying for melodrama, demonstrates the overall uninterest in lyrics on an album in which the arrangement, not the singer, does the interpretive work. This is a typical rock-journalism type of statement. I'm convinced that most pop music critics are english-majors, not music majors; they focus on lyrics and don't know how to intelligently comment on anything else. The melody and chord structure of "I Loves You, Porgy" are drop-dead gorgeous, and that's the whole point. Quote Two beyond-the-grave “collaborations” — obscure minor Gershwin tunes outfitted with wispy lyrics by Mr. Wilson and the instrumentalist Scott Bennett — are throwaways. Once again, I'm sure the writer is focusing on the lyrics and has absolutely no concept of what he's hearing on a musical level. Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Smilin Ed H on August 17, 2010, 08:49:52 AM Mellencamp!? LMFAO!
Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Mikie on August 17, 2010, 09:15:53 AM The first time I heard the Porgy part, I cringed. So I gave it another chance and I cringed again. Now I skip over it. To say that Brian bares his soul here may be valid, and I appreciate that a lot, but it's definitely one of the weaker songs on the album in my unhumble opinion.
So I'm not surprised at what the reviewers say about it. "Drop dead gorgeous"? Uh.......no. Not the vocal anyway. But I'm no English or music major, so what do I know. And Desert Drive is a good surfing/car song for us surfing and car fans. I'm glad Brian put it on that album. It was for us. Brian and the band made the song rock in concert. Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Menace Wilson on August 17, 2010, 09:24:18 AM "Drop dead gorgeous"? Uh.......no. Not the vocal anyway. I said the melody and the chord structure. But yeah, I think Brian sings his ass off on "Porgy" and the rest of the album for that matter. Quote But I'm no English or music major, so what do I know. Neither am I. My point was that music journalists almost always focus on lyrics, because words (not music) are their forte. That's my theory, anyway. Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Amy B. on August 17, 2010, 09:41:29 AM The first time I heard the Porgy part, I cringed. So I gave it another chance and I cringed again. Now I skip over it. To say that Brian bares his soul here may be valid, and I appreciate that a lot, but it's definitely one of the weaker songs on the album in my unhumble opinion. I love that track. It's one of my favorites, but maybe it's because I love the song. But I think I also love it because Brian sings it so well. Also, he unabashedly sings it as a woman, which shows me that he's feeling the sentiment in the lyrics and wasn't afraid to sing about "my man" as long as he served the beauty of the melody and the sentiment of the song. Title: Porgy, Porgy, Porgy Post by: Wirestone on August 17, 2010, 09:56:45 AM I just wonder --
-- How many people who cringe at "Porgy" do so because it's a man singing a "woman's song"? If that's the case, why is that the case? Does it really bother people that much? Brian has talked repeatedly about his falsetto voice "sounding like a girl" and about the gender issues he has faced singing in a high and vulnerable way. I think hearing him just confront it in this dramatic fashion is kind of remarkable. Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: phirnis on August 17, 2010, 10:02:16 AM He even did this kind of thing before when he sang "I Sleep Alone" in the late eighties:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an5WiAzee-w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an5WiAzee-w) Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Jon Stebbins on August 17, 2010, 10:10:49 AM [My point was that music journalists almost always focus on lyrics, because words (not music) are their forte. That's my theory, anyway. The major flaw in that theory is that there has traditionally been a long line of music journalists who are current or are former musicians, like me...and (off the top of my head) like Harvey Kubernick, Cub Koda, Sid Grffin, Dennis Diken etc... I'd guess there are probably more music writers and historians who are musicians than not.Title: Re: Porgy, Porgy, Porgy Post by: Amy B. on August 17, 2010, 10:17:33 AM I just wonder -- -- How many people who cringe at "Porgy" do so because it's a man singing a "woman's song"? If that's the case, why is that the case? Does it really bother people that much? Brian has talked repeatedly about his falsetto voice "sounding like a girl" and about the gender issues he has faced singing in a high and vulnerable way. I think hearing him just confront it in this dramatic fashion is kind of remarkable. I thought it was wonderful that apparently it wasn't an issue for him at all. I've been surprised that more than one critic has taken issue with that song, and I hope their dislike of it has nothing to do with the gender thing. In this day and age, it really shouldn't be a problem. Title: Re: Porgy, Porgy, Porgy Post by: rab2591 on August 17, 2010, 10:28:20 AM I just wonder -- -- How many people who cringe at "Porgy" do so because it's a man singing a "woman's song"? If that's the case, why is that the case? Does it really bother people that much? Brian has talked repeatedly about his falsetto voice "sounding like a girl" and about the gender issues he has faced singing in a high and vulnerable way. I think hearing him just confront it in this dramatic fashion is kind of remarkable. It's not the gender thing for me....though I suppose my problem with it is just as equally childish: It's the way the chrous lyrics are written and the name 'Porgy' - "I loves you porgy" I've never met/heard of anyone whose name was "Porgy" (probably for good reason). nor have I ever heard the term "I loves you" before. Brian's vocals are great and the arrangement is well done but the chorus lyrics just don't appeal to me. I'll have to wait till tonight to listen to it again, and I hope it is a grower! Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: drbeachboy on August 17, 2010, 10:29:40 AM Well, it could be because he sings the lyrics as originally written. These days that is probably not the Politically Correct thing to do.
Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Menace Wilson on August 17, 2010, 11:08:07 AM [My point was that music journalists almost always focus on lyrics, because words (not music) are their forte. That's my theory, anyway. The major flaw in that theory is that there has traditionally been a long line of music journalists who are current or are former musicians, like me...and (off the top of my head) like Harvey Kubernick, Cub Koda, Sid Grffin, Dennis Diken etc... I'd guess there are probably more music writers and historians who are musicians than not.Point taken. Title: Re: Porgy, Porgy, Porgy Post by: Andrew G. Doe on August 17, 2010, 11:27:42 AM I just wonder -- -- How many people who cringe at "Porgy" do so because it's a man singing a "woman's song"? If that's the case, why is that the case? Does it really bother people that much? Brian has talked repeatedly about his falsetto voice "sounding like a girl" and about the gender issues he has faced singing in a high and vulnerable way. I think hearing him just confront it in this dramatic fashion is kind of remarkable. It's not the gender thing for me....though I suppose my problem with it is just as equally childish: It's the way the chrous lyrics are written and the name 'Porgy' - "I loves you porgy" I've never met/heard of anyone whose name was "Porgy" (probably for good reason). nor have I ever heard the term "I loves you" before. Brian's vocals are great and the arrangement is well done but the chorus lyrics just don't appeal to me. I'll have to wait till tonight to listen to it again, and I hope it is a grower! The book the piece was based on is called Porgy, written in 1925 by DuBose Heyward, Porgy being the name of the main character, a crippled street-beggar in the black tenements of Charleston, South Carolina. Oddly, the libretto is based not on the book, but the play developed from the book by Heywood's wife Dorothy. As for "I loves you", well, like much of the lyrics, that was perceived as the way the blacks spoke back then. Bit like Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins. Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Wirestone on August 17, 2010, 11:33:08 AM The Porgy and Bess lyrics Brian used are actually toned way down (this was done in the 40s and 50s, I believe). The original ones were written in dialect. Talk about politically incorrect:
It ain't necessarily so It ain't necessarily so The t'ings dat yo' li'ble To read in de Bible, It ain't necessarily so. Li'l David was small, but oh my ! Li'l David was small, but oh my ! He fought Big Goliath Who lay down an' dieth ! Li'l David was small, but oh my ! Wadoo, zim bam boddle-oo, Hoodle ah da wa da, Scatty wah ! Oh yeah !... Oh Jonah, he lived in de whale, Oh Jonah, he lived in de whale, Fo' he made his home in Dat fish's abdomen. Oh Jonah, he lived in de whale. Li'l Moses was found in a stream. Li'l Moses was found in a stream. He floated on water Till Ol' Pharaoh's daughter, She fished him, she said, from dat stream. Wadoo ... Well, it ain't necessarily so Well, it ain't necessarily so Dey tells all you chillun De debble's a villun, But it ain't necessarily so ! To get into Hebben Don' snap for a sebben ! Live clean ! Don' have no fault ! Oh, I takes dat gospel Whenever it's pos'ble, But wid a grain of salt. Methus'lah lived nine hundred years, Methus'lah lived nine hundred years, But who calls dat livin' When no gal will give in To no man what's nine hundred years ? I'm preachin' dis sermon to show, It ain't nece-ain't nece Ain't nece-ain't nece Ain't necessarily ... so ! Title: Re: Porgy, Porgy, Porgy Post by: summerinparadise.flac on August 17, 2010, 11:40:22 AM I just wonder -- -- How many people who cringe at "Porgy" do so because it's a man singing a "woman's song"? If that's the case, why is that the case? Does it really bother people that much? Brian has talked repeatedly about his falsetto voice "sounding like a girl" and about the gender issues he has faced singing in a high and vulnerable way. I think hearing him just confront it in this dramatic fashion is kind of remarkable. I personally don't care about it being a man singing a womans part. I just think the vocal stinks. I've enjoyed 3/4 of the album though and even the parts I don't like I can admit are very good. Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Fun Is In on August 17, 2010, 11:48:42 AM "In “Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin,” Mr. Wilson dresses Gershwin tunes in surfer attire." Think you can stop right there and ignore the rest. It's an idiotic sentence indeed. From Peter Ames Carlin's piece being hailed (deservedly) in another thrread: "Elsewhere, the album rings, rumbles and sings with Wilson’s quirky sonic touches: The twangy guitars that make “Summertime” a kind of noir surfin’ number;....." Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Andrew G. Doe on August 17, 2010, 11:53:13 AM Big difference - Peter's talking about one track, the other guy makes it sound like Brian's just recorded an album called George & Ira Take Porgy Surfin'.
Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Fun Is In on August 17, 2010, 11:53:55 AM Big difference - Peter's talking about one track, the other guy makes it sound like Brian's just recorded an album called George & Ira Take Porgy Surfin'. :lol Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Menace Wilson on August 17, 2010, 11:56:17 AM Gotta give props to anyone that couples the concepts "noir" and "surfin".
Title: Re: Porgy, Porgy, Porgy Post by: Mikie on August 17, 2010, 12:10:08 PM I just wonder -- -- How many people who cringe at "Porgy" do so because it's a man singing a "woman's song"? If that's the case, why is that the case? Does it really bother people that much? Brian has talked repeatedly about his falsetto voice "sounding like a girl" and about the gender issues he has faced singing in a high and vulnerable way. I think hearing him just confront it in this dramatic fashion is kind of remarkable. I don't have a problem with any of that. Others may have an issue with it, but I don't. As far as his falsetto, I thought it humorous when he mentioned it on the Pet Sounds tour. I think it was how he introduced "Caroline No". I've always loved it. It's been a huge part of the harmony structure of the Beach Boys songs. His falsetto solos are the best of any artist that I can thing of from the 50's 'till now. Some can try to come close to emulate it, but he's the BEST at it. Always loved that song "I Sleep Alone". Even with the Landy/Morgan lyrics and singing it in the third person, I still love it. The falsetto in it was a little strained, but I always thought he shoulda released it. Just Brian and the piano. But back to the subject........ Title: All Music Guide review Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on August 17, 2010, 12:28:55 PM Quote During his five decades of music-making, Brian Wilson has added countless songs to the canon of great American pop music, but he hasn't recorded many by other composers. Still, his affection for the work of George Gershwin is long, and quite evident from this tribute album. In it, Wilson presents 11 classics from Gershwin's pen, and received the blessing of the Gershwin estate to finish two incomplete songs, "The Like in I Love You" and "Nothing But Love." As usual, Wilson's musical instincts are impeccable, and with a full orchestra lending additional weight to these songs, it's easily the best production on a Brian Wilson record since 2004's SMiLE. (It doesn't hurt that the lyrics as well as the music are tried and true; most of Wilson's solo output, and much of the Beach Boys' after 1967, has suffered from trite or tone-deaf lyrics.) Wilson is also in fine voice for his age, finding the pathos in "Summertime" and "It Ain't Necessarily So" during a four-song medley, and even multi-tracking his vocals for the first time on the opener, a nearly a cappella version of "Rhapsody in Blue." "I Got Plenty O' Nuttin'" is done up, as an instrumental, in full Pet Sounds splendor (complete with bass harmonica), while "I Got Rhythm" is neatly transformed into an uptempo nugget to rank with "Surfin' U.S.A." or "Little Honda." Wilson's normal studio group is augmented here with an orchestra (the arrangements and orchestrations are by Wilson and Paul Von Mertens), and they stay to the background except when needed — just one of the many fine touches to the entire production here. Granted, Wilson's bouncy take on "They Can't Take That Away from Me" is never going to compete with Ella Fitzgerald's (or even Julie London's), and "'S Wonderful" is nearly blanded out into easy listening oblivion, but nearly everything else here is loving, sincere, and worthy of hearing by fans of the Beach Boys or Broadway. Ummm...lyrics cannot be "tone-deaf". Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Fun Is In on August 17, 2010, 12:41:03 PM "tone deaf" would be a simile or metaphor in that case. People can be emotionally or culturally "tone deaf" yet still have perfect aural pitch.
Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Mikie on August 17, 2010, 04:35:08 PM OK, maybe I wasn't honest with myself and I lied. I guess I do care when a man is singing a woman's part, as in "I Loves You Porgy". It's............it just doesn't seem right. So call me a homophobe, I don't give a sh!t.
Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: nobody is a chode on August 17, 2010, 04:46:05 PM Perhaps this is common knowledge but it is not to me -
How often to these reviewers typically listen to an album before giving their opinion on it? I don't read reviews - simply because I don't care what anyone thinks and I especially don't see why some author in a magazine or online publication is so important that I have to read their thoughts and take them seriously. BUT, considering many people are swayed by reviews and not their own immediate feelings, I'd like to know more about the process. Do they HAVE to listen to albums, say, ten times? Like, is that part of their job rules? It just strikes me as strange because, for example, how many times have you heard something from Brian or the Beach Boys before it REALLY sunk in and you REALLY "got it"??? I imagine - many times. Perhaps for their entire discography. So why take reviewers seriously who dismiss albums or point out supposed flaws in them? It could be that after publishing said review, the dismissed album or song suddenly opens up for them. Ah but then it'd be too late. Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Fun Is In on August 17, 2010, 04:56:43 PM Boy, I agree with that.
Also, I think that a lot of reviews are written for a particular segment of the market. I'm not in the segment that I suspect most are written for (18-25 year old buyers) and I haven't found a reviewer whose outlook is near mine for probably a decade. Most of the 4-5 star product just does not appeal. But that's a digression from the topic. BWRG and many other albums do need repeated listening. Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Wirestone on August 17, 2010, 05:55:31 PM I think it's just a part of the gig. You can't listen to everything dozens of times. You can't even like every style. So you do the best you can.
I'd expect that someone for a bigger pub -- the NYTimes -- probably gets a chance to listen more than once. But I think time has more to do with it than number of repeats. When you have to get it out -- well, you're thinking about "how am I going to write about this," rather than "how is this"? That being said, the album doesn't need special pleading. It stands up on its own -- it reveals more if you listen more, but Brian is nothing if not direct. Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: nobody is a chode on August 17, 2010, 06:08:07 PM That being said, the album doesn't need special pleading. It stands up on its own -- it reveals more if you listen more, but Brian is nothing if not direct. True it doesn't need special pleading but for an accurate review it almost certainly needs more than a single listen. Perceptions change. What one feels one moment changes the next. I cannot see how a review can be taken seriously if the reviewer has only heard it once - UNLESS it is prefaced by "this reviewer has only listened to this album once and the opinion following obviously reflects that". It's like meeting a woman and judging everything about her from one single meeting. It takes time to develop impressions of things in our experience that are close to being somewhat close to the reality of them, if such a thing exists. Just think about the frailty of our memory. When you heard the Gershwin album first time, could you recall every single detail of it when it was over? Or did it take repeated listens to soak in? So how can a reviewer claim the right to review something he probably can't even remember accurately?! Think about that! Not to mention - what state of mind are these reviewers in? Why should I take someone's review of Smiley Smile - an album probably created on a variety of mind-altering drugs - seriously if it was heard stone cold sober? So obviously everyone is having a different experience of everything. My problem is when people take a stand for certain things and against certain things. How can they be so sure? Luther hates the Rhapsody intro and said he will NEVER listen to it again when he plays that album. Besides being totally fucking loopy, how can he be so sure he won't change his mind? Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Wirestone on August 17, 2010, 06:47:32 PM This is the problem of reviewing any album or creation of an artist with a lengthy history. It's hard to have the context or depth if you're an ordinary reviewer to write something that makes sense for fans.
That being said, most reviewers could stand to know a bit more about BW/BB history than they do. It would make the reviews far better. Title: Re: Porgy, Porgy, Porgy Post by: Ron on August 17, 2010, 10:12:15 PM I just wonder -- -- How many people who cringe at "Porgy" do so because it's a man singing a "woman's song"? If that's the case, why is that the case? Does it really bother people that much? Brian has talked repeatedly about his falsetto voice "sounding like a girl" and about the gender issues he has faced singing in a high and vulnerable way. I think hearing him just confront it in this dramatic fashion is kind of remarkable. I don't really like the song either. To back up your point, however, In my opinion, one of the coolest tricks Brian ever pulled in his life was "Don't Worry Baby". Of course supposedly written as a response to "Be My Baby", and legend says he tried to get the Ronnettes to record it, Spector said no... so when they eventually recorded it, Brian does that clever little reverse right before the chorus, and instead of having Ronnie Spector sing it, he just says "When sheeeee says" and then sings the damn thing, as a woman, himself. Probably one of the most brilliant things he ever did. Title: Re: Porgy, Porgy, Porgy Post by: Ron on August 17, 2010, 10:15:42 PM I just wonder -- -- How many people who cringe at "Porgy" do so because it's a man singing a "woman's song"? If that's the case, why is that the case? Does it really bother people that much? Brian has talked repeatedly about his falsetto voice "sounding like a girl" and about the gender issues he has faced singing in a high and vulnerable way. I think hearing him just confront it in this dramatic fashion is kind of remarkable. It's not the gender thing for me....though I suppose my problem with it is just as equally childish: It's the way the chrous lyrics are written and the name 'Porgy' - "I loves you porgy" I've never met/heard of anyone whose name was "Porgy" (probably for good reason). nor have I ever heard the term "I loves you" before. Brian's vocals are great and the arrangement is well done but the chorus lyrics just don't appeal to me. I'll have to wait till tonight to listen to it again, and I hope it is a grower! Like I said above, I don't really dig the song. I don't have a problem with the gender thing, though, not because i'm down with homosexuals, but because it sounds to me like Brian's singing this because he honestly loves, flat out loves that song, and when I hear him sing it, I picture what the play must be like. So it's as if Brian is showing us his favorite play. I mean I like that he's so into it, It's just not one of my favorites. I suspect if I ever saw "Porgy and Bess" I would have more of an affinity for that song. Title: Re: Porgy, Porgy, Porgy Post by: Ron on August 17, 2010, 10:20:45 PM As far as his falsetto, I thought it humorous when he mentioned it on the Pet Sounds tour. I think it was how he introduced "Caroline No". I've always loved it. It's been a huge part of the harmony structure of the Beach Boys songs. His falsetto solos are the best of any artist that I can thing of from the 50's 'till now. Some can try to come close to emulate it, but he's the BEST at it. Yup. Frankie Valli falls at the feet of Brian Wilson. Nobody else I ever heard was even close. Something like "The Girls on the Beach" is just chillingly perfect vocally. The thing with Brian was his voice wasn't just high, it was STRONG. I mean like Whitney Houston strong, lol. There's a difference in hitting a note, and just DESTROYING a note. Brian's falsetto chops are just unfuckwithable. Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Ron on August 17, 2010, 10:25:55 PM Boy, I agree with that. Also, I think that a lot of reviews are written for a particular segment of the market. I'm not in the segment that I suspect most are written for (18-25 year old buyers) and I haven't found a reviewer whose outlook is near mine for probably a decade. Most of the 4-5 star product just does not appeal. But that's a digression from the topic. BWRG and many other albums do need repeated listening. What it comes down to is, when you read a review, you're just looking for somebody who agrees with you. LOL That's how this stuff works. No review sways anybody's opinion. At best it might turn somebody onto something they weren't aware of, though. The best reviews are by people that you admire. I would LOVE to read album reviews by Bob Dylan. I'm not a huge dylan fan musically, but the guy is extremely talented, has always been fairly honest and down to earth, and I'd respect his opinion. John whoeverthehell from the Daily Mail though, I could care less about. I have no respect or admiration for somebody like that, other than the respect I'd give someone I'd meet on the street. We should fire all the reviewers, then hire all the out of work musicians we still love. Like Debbie Gibson or somebody. She probably needs work. She'd have to work for a small paper, though. In a town where they'd have to respect her because she's all they've got. We'd save Billy Joel for New York or something. Anyways, just a thought. LOL Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: bossaroo on August 17, 2010, 10:26:41 PM the Beach Boys were pretty good at changing the boy/girl viewpoint around...
i'm thinking specifically of "And Then I Kissed Her" and "Rhonda" from the '67 Hawaii sessions i think it could be done with "I Loves You Porgy" without much trouble. change Porgy to "baby" and the rest kind of falls into place. I do this to songs every so often when they need a gender switch. for example: Go Away Boy = Go Away Girl there are a lot of old folksongs that are sung strictly by a male or female character, no matter what sex the singer is. I suppose the Porgy & Bess songs fall into that category and maybe shouldn't be messed with but as long as we're "reimagining" here. someone like Gillian Welch writes a lot of songs from a male perspective and totally pulls it off. Likewise, her partner David Rawlings does a superb version of "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" !!! Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Ron on August 17, 2010, 10:30:25 PM This is the problem of reviewing any album or creation of an artist with a lengthy history. It's hard to have the context or depth if you're an ordinary reviewer to write something that makes sense for fans. That being said, most reviewers could stand to know a bit more about BW/BB history than they do. It would make the reviews far better. They're not writing for fans, though... and really shouldn't be. The place of a reviewer for the NY Times or whatever isn't to appease us. Hell we all bought the album today anyways. the place or the usefullness of the reviewer is to turn people onto the album that may not have a clue about it. So hell they're never going to understand the complexity of it. If the album doesn't please casual listeners, the reviewer isn't going to be of much use anyways. Many, Many, Many great albums though take a while to grow on you, so by nature this b.s. reviewer isn't going to understand what's so great about it. Ultimately, many great albums aren't going to get great 'launch' reviews. I'll tell you one thing though, Gershwin is timeless, and this is a great album, I think it will stand the test of time. It may not sell well initially, but like Mr. Doe said a few days ago, I think it'll sell well as a catalog piece. Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Ron on August 17, 2010, 10:32:22 PM the Beach Boys were pretty good at changing the boy/girl viewpoint around... i'm thinking specifically of "And Then I Kissed Her" and "Rhonda" from the '67 Hawaii sessions i think it could be done with "I Loves You Porgy" without much trouble. change Porgy to "baby" and the rest kind of falls into place. I do this to songs every so often when they need a gender switch. for example: Go Away Boy = Go Away Girl there are a lot of old folksongs that are sung strictly by a male or female character, no matter what sex the singer is. I suppose the Porgy & Bess songs fall into that category and maybe shouldn't be messed with but as long as we're "reimagining" here. someone like Gillian Welch writes a lot of songs from a male perspective and totally pulls it off. Likewise, her partner David Rawlings does a superb version of "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" !!! Good points but a song as iconic as "I loves you Porgy" shouldn't really be rewritten, imho. The song commands respect. Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: nobody is a chode on August 17, 2010, 10:51:28 PM I like the Summertime - I Loves You Porgy bit quite a lot.
It feels like a second side 'suite' but I find it to work well on the first side It kind of prepares the ground for the joyous I Got Plenty O Nuttin Plus, I imagine Summertime - Loves You Porgy will make a nice mood piece performed live Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: The Heartical Don on August 17, 2010, 11:55:45 PM OK, maybe I wasn't honest with myself and I lied. I guess I do care when a man is singing a woman's part, as in "I Loves You Porgy". It's............it just doesn't seem right. So call me a homophobe, I don't give a merda. Two other examples: Dave Edmunds sang Da Doo Ron Ron on his 'Subtle As A Flying Mallet'. Now, he was a bit compulsive way back then, and sang the original lyrics. So he 'met him on a monday and his heart stood still', and 'someone told him that his name was Bill'. I find that quite funny, don't know Dave's sexual persuasion by the way. Robert Orsi (who doesn't know him?) covered 'He Hit Me (And It Felt Like A Kiss) on the Spector tribute album 'Bionic Gold'. This is really quirky. This song was already somewhat notorious because of its 'girl abuse' connotation; and now it was sung by a guy. Just imagine the kinky homo-sadomasochistic fantasy that goes with that cover... PS: there was a joke doing the rounds when model Lana Clarkson just was shot by Spector. That happened on a Monday, allegedly. So folks put the line 'I Met Him On A Monday And My Heart Stood Still' into the mouth of the dead actress... Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: HighOnLife on August 18, 2010, 04:53:14 AM Likewise, her partner David Rawlings does a superb version of "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" !!! That song was written from a male perspective by Robert Hazard. He recorded a demo in 1979. Cyndi made some lyrical changes for her version of the song. :3d Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: mtaber on August 18, 2010, 05:46:11 AM Don - I, too, thought of the Dave Edmunds comp... great minds and all that...
Hey, the album is great, but to each his own... I personally think Nothing But Love is the standout track on the whole album... but what do I know? Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: absinthe_boy on August 18, 2010, 06:31:11 AM "In “Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin,” Mr. Wilson dresses Gershwin tunes in surfer attire." Think you can stop right there and ignore the rest. Having now heard BWRG I can agree wholeheartedly with ADG. The reviewer clearly hasn't even given the album one proper listen. Brian is not trying to dress Gershwin in surfer attire, nor has he even accidentally done so. There are 'Beach Boys moments' but they are actually quite few and far between. Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Amy B. on August 18, 2010, 06:42:52 AM Metacritic has compiled some of the reviews.
http://www.metacritic.com/music/brian-wilson-reimagines-gershwin/critic-reviews Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Myk Luhv on August 18, 2010, 06:47:03 AM Frankly, I'm surprised Brian Wilson is singing a song from the perspective of a female -- even if it's one written by a male -- because he's not exactly known for gender-sensitive lyrics. Witness "The Little Girl I Once Knew," any version of "Hey Little Tomboy," "She Knows Me Too Well," and so on. I think it's a good thing, although I'm not going to start thinking he's anything but traditional still, haha.
Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Emdeeh on August 18, 2010, 10:27:10 AM This is easily the most flippant review I've seen so far:
http://www.blackbookmag.com/article/brian-wilson-does-gershwin-john-mellencamp-does-springsteen/21560 BRIAN WILSON DOES GERSHWIN, JOHN MELLENCAMP DOES SPRINGSTEEN By Adam Wilson August 17, 2010 We’re deep into the slow part of summer, everyone away, summer jams already annoying (Katy Perry’s “California Gurls”, anyone?), big releases slated for September. But there’s still new music coming out, even if it's made by old guys. Today we’ve got Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin, which, like most late-career cover records, could be awesome, but in reality only cements Wilson’s status as really old and really white. Your dad might like it. Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: nobody is a chode on August 18, 2010, 10:30:52 AM Lol "really old and really white".
Damn Brian, how are you gonna get around that one? Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Awesoman on August 18, 2010, 04:01:20 PM I think it is fair to say this album is not for everyone, BW fan or not. While I think there are some nice moments here, in all honestly the album isn't really *grabbing* me. It's a little heavy on the schmaltz for me (which is to be expected since it's a Gershwin project). And I'm not really digging some of the arrangements here; some of which play it a little too safe. Totally agree with the review that the Happenings version of "I've Got Rhythm" is better than the one on here. And my hopes aren't very high over the Disney music album he plans to put out next.
Pleasure Island----hooooooo!!! Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: nobody is a chode on August 18, 2010, 04:10:39 PM "In “Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin,” Mr. Wilson dresses Gershwin tunes in surfer attire." Think you can stop right there and ignore the rest. Having now heard BWRG I can agree wholeheartedly with ADG. The reviewer clearly hasn't even given the album one proper listen. Brian is not trying to dress Gershwin in surfer attire, nor has he even accidentally done so. There are 'Beach Boys moments' but they are actually quite few and far between. Yeah the surfer thing is ridiculous. Brian's not even into his old surf group image, is he? I thought he'd been trying to distance himself from that since the mid 60s... I think it is fair to say this album is not for everyone, BW fan or not. While I think there are some nice moments here, in all honestly the album isn't really *grabbing* me. It's a little heavy on the schmaltz for me (which is to be expected since it's a Gershwin project). And I'm not really digging some of the arrangements here; some of which play it a little too safe. Totally agree with the review that the Happenings version of "I've Got Rhythm" is better than the one on here. And my hopes aren't very high over the Disney music album he plans to put out next. Pleasure Island----hooooooo!!! These thoughts occurred to me as well on the first few listens. However, I had to sit back and get some perspective on things. I can't reasonably expect Brian to be as innovative as he was in 1967 and to put out records like Smiley, so I have to see what he IS doing and what's good in it. And in the Gershwin record I feel Love from Brian - his eternal central message. Paul Von Mertens may have played it incredibly safe but Brian still encodes a lot of love into the record. I just feel good listening to it. It's something I see myself turning to when I'm feeling in the mood for something from Brian. I'd take it over Getting In Over My Head (except Rainbow Eyes which is cool), Imagination, BWPS, etc. Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Wirestone on August 18, 2010, 04:32:50 PM Brian has an incredibly hip side and an incredibly square side. Part of his charm is that he doesn't always know the difference.
This record comes largely from the Brian Wilson who hired Dick Reynolds not just in the 1960s, but in the 1970s. The Brian Wilson who cites Herb Alpert as an influence on this record. The Brian Wilson who listened to Four Freshmen albums over and over and over as a teen. That's not the Brian Wilson everyone necessarily idolizes, but it's undeniably part of him. It's the old, dorky, white guy side. (This, incidentally, is one of the reasons I backed "Imagination" some 12 years ago. Sure, BW has avant garde/rocking stuff, but his easy listening side is no less true and deep. I am not equating BWRG and Imagination, though, so let's not even start that. ;D) Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: nobody is a chode on August 18, 2010, 05:14:59 PM Brian has an incredibly hip side and an incredibly square side. Part of his charm is that he doesn't always know the difference. This record comes largely from the Brian Wilson who hired Dick Reynolds not just in the 1960s, but in the 1970s. The Brian Wilson who cites Herb Alpert as an influence on this record. The Brian Wilson who listened to Four Freshmen albums over and over and over as a teen. That's not the Brian Wilson everyone necessarily idolizes, but it's undeniably part of him. It's the old, dorky, white guy side. (This, incidentally, is one of the reasons I backed "Imagination" some 12 years ago. Sure, BW has avant garde/rocking stuff, but his easy listening side is no less true and deep. I am not equating BWRG and Imagination, though, so let's not even start that. ;D) Yeahhh I love perspectives like this, everything taken into account. True, part of Brian's style is effortlessly blending the incredibly cool and incredibly dorky. Wild Honey is a great example. Both song and album. Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Amy B. on August 18, 2010, 05:23:13 PM Here's video of Brian answering the Facebook questions.
http://www.brianwilson.com/youtube_video/01.html Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: nobody is a chode on August 18, 2010, 05:26:47 PM Here's video of Brian answering the Facebook questions. http://www.brianwilson.com/youtube_video/01.html Woah cool. Wait, so people wrote in their questions and... how did they get to Brian by telephone? When I read them in that thread I thought it was like Melinda typing on a computer Brian's responses or something. Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: Amy B. on August 18, 2010, 05:48:37 PM Brian talks about each track on BWRG.
http://music.msn.com/brian-wilson/story/review/?icid=MUSIC1>1=MUSIC1 (These links were posted on the Blueboard.) Interesting--looks like two days of interviews. Where Brian is in the darker, purple shirt was clearly a better day. You actually see 1960s Brian there. He's totally with-it. Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: drbeachboy on August 18, 2010, 07:38:56 PM That whole interview was terrific! It is one of the best interviews with him that I have seen in years. He seemed very confident and relaxed. Thank you for sharing that.
Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: 18thofMay on August 18, 2010, 08:45:57 PM Brian talks about each track on BWRG. http://music.msn.com/brian-wilson/story/review/?icid=MUSIC1>1=MUSIC1 (These links were posted on the Blueboard.) Interesting--looks like two days of interviews. Where Brian is in the darker, purple shirt was clearly a better day. You actually see 1960s Brian there. He's totally with-it. It wont let me watch it from where I am currently located??? NSW Australia Title: Re: Not-so-great review of BWRG Post by: phirnis on August 19, 2010, 12:09:30 AM Brian talks about each track on BWRG. http://music.msn.com/brian-wilson/story/review/?icid=MUSIC1>1=MUSIC1 "We're sorry, this video cannot be played from your current location." I have yet to understand such limitations when it comes to watching a promotional video such as this... |