Not-so-great review of BWRG

[Andrew G. Doe]

I just wonder --

-- How many people who cringe at "Porgy" do so because it's a man singing a "woman's song"?

If that's the case, why is that the case? Does it really bother people that much?

Brian has talked repeatedly about his falsetto voice "sounding like a girl" and about the gender issues he has faced singing in a high and vulnerable way. I think hearing him just confront it in this dramatic fashion is kind of remarkable.

It's not the gender thing for me....though I suppose my problem with it is just as equally childish: It's the way the chrous lyrics are written and the name 'Porgy' - "I loves you porgy"

I've never met/heard of anyone whose name was "Porgy" (probably for good reason). nor have I ever heard the term "I loves you" before. Brian's vocals are great and the arrangement is well done but the chorus lyrics just don't appeal to me.

I'll have to wait till tonight to listen to it again, and I hope it is a grower!

The book the piece was based on is called Porgy, written in 1925 by DuBose Heyward, Porgy being the name of the main character, a crippled street-beggar in the black tenements of Charleston, South Carolina. Oddly, the libretto is based not on the book, but the play developed from the book by Heywood's wife Dorothy. As for "I loves you", well, like much of the lyrics, that was perceived as the way the blacks spoke back then. Bit like Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins.

[Wirestone]

The Porgy and Bess lyrics Brian used are actually toned way down (this was done in the 40s and 50s, I believe). The original ones were written in dialect. Talk about politically incorrect:

It ain't necessarily so
It ain't necessarily so
The t'ings dat yo' li'ble
To read in de Bible,
It ain't necessarily so.

Li'l David was small, but oh my !
Li'l David was small, but oh my !
He fought Big Goliath
Who lay down an' dieth !
Li'l David was small, but oh my !

Wadoo, zim bam boddle-oo,
Hoodle ah da wa da,
Scatty wah !
Oh yeah !...

Oh Jonah, he lived in de whale,
Oh Jonah, he lived in de whale,
Fo' he made his home in
Dat fish's abdomen.
Oh Jonah, he lived in de whale.

Li'l Moses was found in a stream.
Li'l Moses was found in a stream.
He floated on water
Till Ol' Pharaoh's daughter,
She fished him, she said, from dat stream.

Wadoo ...

Well, it ain't necessarily so
Well, it ain't necessarily so
Dey tells all you chillun
De debble's a villun,
But it ain't necessarily so !

To get into Hebben
Don' snap for a sebben !
Live clean ! Don' have no fault !
Oh, I takes dat gospel
Whenever it's pos'ble,
But wid a grain of salt.

Methus'lah lived nine hundred years,
Methus'lah lived nine hundred years,
But who calls dat livin'
When no gal will give in
To no man what's nine hundred years ?

I'm preachin' dis sermon to show,
It ain't nece-ain't nece
Ain't nece-ain't nece
Ain't necessarily ... so !

[summerinparadise.flac]

I just wonder --

-- How many people who cringe at "Porgy" do so because it's a man singing a "woman's song"?

If that's the case, why is that the case? Does it really bother people that much?

Brian has talked repeatedly about his falsetto voice "sounding like a girl" and about the gender issues he has faced singing in a high and vulnerable way. I think hearing him just confront it in this dramatic fashion is kind of remarkable.

I personally don't care about it being a man singing a womans part. I just think the vocal stinks.
I've enjoyed 3/4 of the album though and even the parts I don't like I can admit are very good.

[Fun Is In]

"In “Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin,” Mr. Wilson dresses Gershwin tunes in surfer attire."

Think you can stop right there and ignore the rest.

It's an idiotic sentence indeed.

From Peter Ames Carlin's piece being hailed (deservedly) in another thrread:

"Elsewhere, the album rings, rumbles and sings with Wilson’s quirky sonic touches: The twangy guitars that make “Summertime” a kind of noir surfin’ number;....."

[Andrew G. Doe]

Big difference - Peter's talking about one track, the other guy makes it sound like Brian's just recorded an album called George & Ira Take Porgy Surfin'.

[Fun Is In]

Big difference - Peter's talking about one track, the other guy makes it sound like Brian's just recorded an album called George & Ira Take Porgy Surfin'.

[Menace Wilson]

Gotta give props to anyone that couples the concepts "noir" and "surfin".

[Mikie]

I just wonder -- -- How many people who cringe at "Porgy" do so because it's a man singing a "woman's song"? If that's the case, why is that the case? Does it really bother people that much? Brian has talked repeatedly about his falsetto voice "sounding like a girl" and about the gender issues he has faced singing in a high and vulnerable way. I think hearing him just confront it in this dramatic fashion is kind of remarkable.

I don't have a problem with any of that.  Others may have an issue with it, but I don't.

As far as his falsetto, I thought it humorous when he mentioned it on the Pet Sounds tour. I think it was how he introduced "Caroline No". I've always loved it. It's been a huge part of the harmony structure of the Beach Boys songs. His falsetto solos are the best of any artist that I can thing of from the 50's 'till now. Some can try to come close to emulate it, but he's the BEST at it.

Always loved that song "I Sleep Alone". Even with the Landy/Morgan lyrics and singing it in the third person, I still love it. The falsetto in it was a little strained, but I always thought he shoulda released it. Just Brian and the piano.

But back to the subject........

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

During his five decades of music-making, Brian Wilson has added countless songs to the canon of great American pop music, but he hasn't recorded many by other composers. Still, his affection for the work of George Gershwin is long, and quite evident from this tribute album. In it, Wilson presents 11 classics from Gershwin's pen, and received the blessing of the Gershwin  estate to finish two incomplete songs, "The Like in I Love You" and "Nothing But Love." As usual, Wilson's musical instincts are impeccable, and with a full orchestra lending additional weight to these songs, it's easily the best production on a Brian Wilson record since 2004's SMiLE. (It doesn't hurt that the lyrics as well as the music are tried and true; most of Wilson's solo output, and much of the Beach Boys' after 1967, has suffered from trite or tone-deaf lyrics.) Wilson is also in fine voice for his age, finding the pathos in "Summertime" and "It Ain't Necessarily So" during a four-song medley, and even multi-tracking his vocals for the first time on the opener, a nearly a cappella version of "Rhapsody in Blue." "I Got Plenty O' Nuttin'" is done up, as an instrumental, in full Pet Sounds  splendor (complete with bass harmonica), while "I Got Rhythm" is neatly transformed into an uptempo nugget to rank with "Surfin' U.S.A." or "Little Honda." Wilson's normal studio group is augmented here with an orchestra (the arrangements and orchestrations are by Wilson and Paul Von Mertens), and they stay to the background except when needed — just one of the many fine touches to the entire production here. Granted, Wilson's bouncy take on "They Can't Take That Away from Me" is never going to compete with Ella Fitzgerald's (or even Julie London's), and "'S Wonderful" is nearly blanded out into easy listening oblivion, but nearly everything else here is loving, sincere, and worthy of hearing by fans of the Beach Boys or Broadway.

Ummm...lyrics cannot be "tone-deaf".

[Fun Is In]

"tone deaf" would be a simile or metaphor in that case. People can be emotionally or culturally "tone deaf" yet still have perfect aural pitch.

[Mikie]

OK, maybe I wasn't honest with myself and I lied.  I guess I do care when a man is singing a woman's part, as in "I Loves You Porgy".  It's............it just doesn't seem right.  So call me a homophobe, I don't give a sh!t.

[nobody is a chode]

Perhaps this is common knowledge but it is not to me -

How often to these reviewers typically listen to an album before giving their opinion on it?

I don't read reviews - simply because I don't care what anyone thinks and I especially don't see why some author in a magazine or online publication is so important that I have to read their thoughts and take them seriously. BUT, considering many people are swayed by reviews and not their own immediate feelings, I'd like to know more about the process.

Do they HAVE to listen to albums, say, ten times? Like, is that part of their job rules?

It just strikes me as strange because, for example, how many times have you heard something from Brian or the Beach Boys before it REALLY sunk in and you REALLY "got it" I imagine - many times. Perhaps for their entire discography. So why take reviewers seriously who dismiss albums or point out supposed flaws in them? It could be that after publishing said review, the dismissed album or song suddenly opens up for them. Ah but then it'd be too late.

[Fun Is In]

Boy, I agree with that.

Also, I think that a lot of reviews are written for a particular segment of the market.  I'm not in the segment that I suspect most are written for (18-25 year old buyers) and I haven't found a reviewer whose outlook is near mine for probably a decade. Most of the 4-5 star product just does not appeal. But that's a digression from the topic. 

BWRG and many other albums do need repeated listening.

[Wirestone]

I think it's just a part of the gig. You can't listen to everything dozens of times. You can't even like every style. So you do the best you can.

I'd expect that someone for a bigger pub -- the NYTimes -- probably gets a chance to listen more than once. But I think time has more to do with it than number of repeats. When you have to get it out -- well, you're thinking about "how am I going to write about this," rather than "how is this"?

That being said, the album doesn't need special pleading. It stands up on its own -- it reveals more if you listen more, but Brian is nothing if not direct.

[nobody is a chode]

That being said, the album doesn't need special pleading. It stands up on its own -- it reveals more if you listen more, but Brian is nothing if not direct.

True it doesn't need special pleading but for an accurate review it almost certainly needs more than a single listen. Perceptions change. What one feels one moment changes the next. I cannot see how a review can be taken seriously if the reviewer has only heard it once - UNLESS it is prefaced by "this reviewer has only listened to this album once and the opinion following obviously reflects that".

It's like meeting a woman and judging everything about her from one single meeting. It takes time to develop impressions of things in our experience that are close to being somewhat close to the reality of them, if such a thing exists. Just think about the frailty of our memory. When you heard the Gershwin album first time, could you recall every single detail of it when it was over? Or did it take repeated listens to soak in? So how can a reviewer claim the right to review something he probably can't even remember accurately?! Think about that!

Not to mention - what state of mind are these reviewers in? Why should I take someone's review of Smiley Smile - an album probably created on a variety of mind-altering drugs - seriously if it was heard stone cold sober? So obviously everyone is having a different experience of everything. My problem is when people take a stand for certain things and against certain things. How can they be so sure? Luther hates the Rhapsody intro and said he will NEVER listen to it again when he plays that album. Besides being totally fucking loopy, how can he be so sure he won't change his mind?

[Wirestone]

This is the problem of reviewing any album or creation of an artist with a lengthy history. It's hard to have the context or depth if you're an ordinary reviewer to write something that makes sense for fans.

That being said, most reviewers could stand to know a bit more about BW/BB history than they do. It would make the reviews far better.

[Ron]

I just wonder --

-- How many people who cringe at "Porgy" do so because it's a man singing a "woman's song"?

If that's the case, why is that the case? Does it really bother people that much?

Brian has talked repeatedly about his falsetto voice "sounding like a girl" and about the gender issues he has faced singing in a high and vulnerable way. I think hearing him just confront it in this dramatic fashion is kind of remarkable.

I don't really like the song either. 

To back up your point, however, In my opinion, one of the coolest tricks Brian ever pulled in his life was "Don't Worry Baby".  Of course supposedly written as a response to "Be My Baby", and legend says he tried to get the Ronnettes to record it, Spector said no... so when they eventually recorded it, Brian does that clever little reverse right before the chorus, and instead of having Ronnie Spector sing it, he just says "When sheeeee says" and then sings the damn thing, as a woman, himself.  Probably one of the most brilliant things he ever did. 

[Ron]

I just wonder --

-- How many people who cringe at "Porgy" do so because it's a man singing a "woman's song"?

If that's the case, why is that the case? Does it really bother people that much?

Brian has talked repeatedly about his falsetto voice "sounding like a girl" and about the gender issues he has faced singing in a high and vulnerable way. I think hearing him just confront it in this dramatic fashion is kind of remarkable.

It's not the gender thing for me....though I suppose my problem with it is just as equally childish: It's the way the chrous lyrics are written and the name 'Porgy' - "I loves you porgy"

I've never met/heard of anyone whose name was "Porgy" (probably for good reason). nor have I ever heard the term "I loves you" before. Brian's vocals are great and the arrangement is well done but the chorus lyrics just don't appeal to me.

I'll have to wait till tonight to listen to it again, and I hope it is a grower!

Like I said above, I don't really dig the song.  I don't have a problem with the gender thing, though, not because i'm down with homosexuals, but because it sounds to me like Brian's singing this because he honestly loves, flat out loves that song, and when I hear him sing it, I picture what the play must be like.  So it's as if Brian is showing us his favorite play.  I mean I like that he's so into it, It's just not one of my favorites.  I suspect if I ever saw "Porgy and Bess" I would have more of an affinity for that song. 

[Ron]

As far as his falsetto, I thought it humorous when he mentioned it on the Pet Sounds tour. I think it was how he introduced "Caroline No". I've always loved it. It's been a huge part of the harmony structure of the Beach Boys songs. His falsetto solos are the best of any artist that I can thing of from the 50's 'till now. Some can try to come close to emulate it, but he's the BEST at it.

Yup.  Frankie Valli falls at the feet of Brian Wilson.  Nobody else I ever heard was even close.  Something like "The Girls on the Beach" is just chillingly perfect vocally.  The thing with Brian was his voice wasn't just high, it was STRONG.  I mean like Whitney Houston strong, lol.  There's a difference in hitting a note, and just DESTROYING a note.  Brian's falsetto chops are just unfuckwithable. 

[Ron]

Boy, I agree with that.

Also, I think that a lot of reviews are written for a particular segment of the market.  I'm not in the segment that I suspect most are written for (18-25 year old buyers) and I haven't found a reviewer whose outlook is near mine for probably a decade. Most of the 4-5 star product just does not appeal. But that's a digression from the topic. 

BWRG and many other albums do need repeated listening.

What it comes down to is, when you read a review, you're just looking for somebody who agrees with you.  LOL That's how this stuff works.  No review sways anybody's opinion.  At best it might turn somebody onto something they weren't aware of, though.  The best reviews are by people that you admire.  I would LOVE to read album reviews by Bob Dylan.  I'm not a huge dylan fan musically, but the guy is extremely talented, has always been fairly honest and down to earth, and I'd respect his opinion.  John whoeverthehell from the Daily Mail though, I could care less about.  I have no respect or admiration for somebody like that, other than the respect I'd give someone I'd meet on the street.  We should fire all the reviewers, then hire all the out of work musicians we still love.  Like Debbie Gibson or somebody.  She probably needs work.  She'd have to work for a small paper, though.  In a town where they'd have to respect her because she's all they've got.  We'd save Billy Joel for New York or something.  Anyways, just a thought.  LOL

[bossaroo]

the Beach Boys were pretty good at changing the boy/girl viewpoint around...
i'm thinking specifically of "And Then I Kissed Her" and "Rhonda" from the '67 Hawaii sessions

i think it could be done with "I Loves You Porgy" without much trouble.
change Porgy to "baby" and the rest kind of falls into place.

I do this to songs every so often when they need a gender switch.

for example:
Go Away Boy = Go Away Girl


there are a lot of old folksongs that are sung strictly by a male or female character, no matter what sex the singer is.
I suppose the Porgy & Bess songs fall into that category and maybe shouldn't be messed with but as long as we're "reimagining" here.

someone like Gillian Welch writes a lot of songs from a male perspective and totally pulls it off. Likewise, her partner David Rawlings does a superb version of "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" !!!

[Ron]

This is the problem of reviewing any album or creation of an artist with a lengthy history. It's hard to have the context or depth if you're an ordinary reviewer to write something that makes sense for fans.

That being said, most reviewers could stand to know a bit more about BW/BB history than they do. It would make the reviews far better.

They're not writing for fans, though... and really shouldn't be.  The place of a reviewer for the NY Times or whatever isn't to appease us.  Hell we all bought the album today anyways.  the place or the usefullness of the reviewer is to turn people onto the album that may not have a clue about it.  So hell they're never going to understand the complexity of it.  If the album doesn't please casual listeners, the reviewer isn't going to be of much use anyways.  Many, Many, Many great albums though take a while to grow on you, so by nature this b.s. reviewer isn't going to understand what's so great about it.  Ultimately, many great albums aren't going to get great 'launch' reviews. 

I'll tell you one thing though, Gershwin is timeless, and this is a great album, I think it will stand the test of time.  It may not sell well initially, but like Mr. Doe said a few days ago, I think it'll sell well as a catalog piece. 

[Ron]

the Beach Boys were pretty good at changing the boy/girl viewpoint around...
i'm thinking specifically of "And Then I Kissed Her" and "Rhonda" from the '67 Hawaii sessions

i think it could be done with "I Loves You Porgy" without much trouble.
change Porgy to "baby" and the rest kind of falls into place.

I do this to songs every so often when they need a gender switch.

for example:
Go Away Boy = Go Away Girl


there are a lot of old folksongs that are sung strictly by a male or female character, no matter what sex the singer is.
I suppose the Porgy & Bess songs fall into that category and maybe shouldn't be messed with but as long as we're "reimagining" here.

someone like Gillian Welch writes a lot of songs from a male perspective and totally pulls it off. Likewise, her partner David Rawlings does a superb version of "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" !!!

Good points but a song as iconic as "I loves you Porgy" shouldn't really be rewritten, imho.  The song commands respect. 

[nobody is a chode]

I like the Summertime - I Loves You Porgy bit quite a lot.

It feels like a second side 'suite' but I find it to work well on the first side

It kind of prepares the ground for the joyous I Got Plenty O Nuttin

Plus, I imagine Summertime - Loves You Porgy will make a nice mood piece performed live

[The Heartical Don]

OK, maybe I wasn't honest with myself and I lied.  I guess I do care when a man is singing a woman's part, as in "I Loves You Porgy".  It's............it just doesn't seem right.  So call me a homophobe, I don't give a merda.

Two other examples: Dave Edmunds sang Da Doo Ron Ron on his 'Subtle As A Flying Mallet'. Now, he was a bit compulsive way back then, and sang the original lyrics. So he 'met him on a monday and his heart stood still', and 'someone told him that his name was Bill'. I find that quite funny, don't know Dave's sexual persuasion by the way.

Robert Orsi (who doesn't know him?) covered 'He Hit Me (And It Felt Like A Kiss) on the Spector tribute album 'Bionic Gold'. This is really quirky. This song was already somewhat notorious because of its 'girl abuse' connotation; and now it was sung by a guy. Just imagine the kinky homo-sadomasochistic fantasy that goes with that cover...

PS: there was a joke doing the rounds when model Lana Clarkson just was shot by Spector. That happened on a Monday, allegedly. So folks put the line 'I Met Him On A Monday And My Heart Stood Still' into the mouth of the dead actress...