The Smiley Smile Message Board

The band.

What musicians would they use?  Brian is married to his touring band.  Mike and Bruce have their own bunch of cast offs and Al has his own band of gypsies -- there is NO way these guys could be happy with the backing band.

I just can't see the guys caving to let the "other one" get his way and pick the musicians.

I think that issue (the backing band) is a minor problem compared to just all of them agreeing to something.

I imagine it would be a combination of both bands.  Mike would certainly have his son  in there.

Yes, it would be interesting. However....while Mike would probably insist on major input regarding the overall direction/plan, concert setlist, and lyrical/songwriting credit for any new songs, I'm not sure how much he will push or insist on the band members. I'm sure he'll care, but I think he'll pick his battles. I don't think he would want to risk blowing it over backing musicians.

Never say never.

I can't help but think that if Brian, Mike and Al are all still around in 2011, there WILL be some kind of 50th anniversary concert.  Hell, they all have wives and kids and ex-wives and probably even ex-kids.  The money from the concert and the TV special and the CD and the DVD will just be too substantial to ignore.

As I mentioned before, after speaking with David Marks and Al about a reunion, they say it will never happen, and I totally agree with them. I truly wouldn't want it to happen either. That ship has sailed.................................

I honestly think Mike wouldn't have one thing to say about the live band. The only thing he does is front the group and pay the musicians. Of course, until 2004, Mike had BRUCE as the live bandleader, which naturally led to the disastrous results. Then came Chris Farmer's leadership, and now Scott Totten, who has improved over Chris Farmer's already excellent work tenfold. I believe if Mike truly wanted to have a say in the lineup, he'd just suggest Scott and possibly Christian for the live band, although everyone knows Christian is just doing it to pay the bills as he has zero interest in the band's music despite how well he sings on his leads.

Never underestimate the power of the money and the draw of the attention that a reunion would generate in the media.  Let's see how Al feels if his new tour draws limited interest and his album goes nowhere.

I may be wrong here, but I believe that Chris took over leading the band in 1998.

...is the correct answer. They changed their minds so often that there is no room for dogmatic theories. A second powerful driving force might be that they must, by nature, get more aware of their mortality by the day (although they never seemed to be very conscious of that in the first place, given the childish rows and fisticuffs in the past). Let me place a brave bet: 50 years, album, and tour. What the album(s), DVD's, and set lists will include is another question.
Plastic surgeons may well be lining up already.

and cheerleaders.  :o

 :lol

Exactly, urbanite. And look at Al for a minute. He can say all he wants (what EXACTLY did he say DonnaK?), but, if Mike or Brian - or anyone - called Al about a Beach Boys' reunion, do you realize how fast he would say "OK"....

Yeah, saying that they don't think it will happen is a lot different than saying they don't want it to happen or wouldn't do it if asked.  As for me, I don't think it'll happen, either.  Too many snags. 

We also shouldn't forget that it was Al who tried to get the boys back together in 2006 (which led to him joining Brian).

They both said it will NEVER happen and were very adamant about it.

Not this sh*t again. Maybe we should all go back to talking about Dennis' hair.

You think that Dennis' hair will reunite?

Did they say why it will "never" happen, in their opinion?

Well obviously it cant hurt to hope for a reunion. I personally refuse to think it will "never" happen. You know the old saying "never say never"....

I defintley could see it happening, espeically for something like a 50 year reunion...thats a pretty huge deal. I can just see Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce & David up there now...and the crowds reaction....

I, for one would be such a happy camper!!! ;D

Some people assume that there is a ton of money to be made from a reunion.

Maybe not.

They are not exactly at the pinnacle of the musical mountain at the moment. I think their ship has come and gone, a long time ago, regardless of who is on stage in the band at their "50."

I don't know about a "ton" of money, but there is SOME money to be made.  No, they're not at their career pinnacle, but they're still one of the best known acts in the world.  People from 5 to 75 know their songs.  And, in some ways, Brian Wilson's reputation as an important musician is greater now than it has ever been. Some kind of "special event" reunion concert for their 50th anniversary could sell out the Hollywood Bowl and could also be sold to one of the major TV networks.  CDs and DVDs aren't going to sell in the millions but they could be sold profitably. 

Brian's rep is great sure, but his tours aren't exactly breaking the box office.  What would a reunion mean to the general public anyway?  In their eyes the Beach Boys never went away to begin with.  Hardcore fans that post here may get excited about it, but they're the ones that already go to all the shows anyway.

Mike would be an idiot to agree to a "reunion" tour because that would dilute whatever drawing appeal the current touring BB has.

Well if they could muster one last hit record, that would create a lot of excitement and ticket sales.

Do you actually have to ask why they feel that way???? Please.

Maybe, but how much longer will the Mike & Bruce band keep going? After the Beach Boys' 50th anniversary, Mike will already be in his 70s.

Well, maybe. Is it "because of Mike?" Because Mike seems very, very ,very open to the idea. In fact, the last five or six interviews I've read, he clearly states he wants to do something.

So then, is it Brian's camp? I think we know the possible reasons, but it's just people curious as to the specific camp holding out. Either way, there's no need to be snobby about it. After all, didn't Al and Dave take time to answer YOUR question?

It seems to me anyway, that Brian's camp may be holding out because Brian is being accepted as a solo artist finally in his life. Giving him a bigger feeling of self worth. I can see why he wouldn't want to give that up easily and go back to just being one of The Beach Boys.

The chances of that happening are slim and none!!

Although... imagine a couple of guys around 70 doing the 'Watusi' on MTV and beating everone at their own game, be it the Black Eyed Peas, Rihanna, or U2... it would be rather cool...

My guess is the issues between Brian and Mike and their managements.

Yeah, but I wonder when the last time was that the respective parties even discussed "issues" regarding a reunion? Were Al and David speculating, or do they actually know something about discussions? I'll maintain that sometimes all it takes is a simple phone call to get the ball rolling...

I didn't mean to come off as snobby and am sorry you took it that way. I was getting autographs from David, Al, Matt, etc when I said".......please don't do a reunion thing........" when they both spoke out that it will never happen, don't worry about that, etc........ I was walking away from the booth and they were both still assuring me. They were emphatic about it. I wasn't about to go back up to them and say "Why?" I assume it is a personal choice and I'm not about to ask why. I have my own thoughts on it and am glad they feel that way.

I was talking with David and some other band members off and on all day from the soundcheck at 9 A.M.  on. I never wanted to corner any of them and start asking silly questions. In fact, all of them were staying at the same place as I and many other fans were. It was a short walk down the street from where the event was held. We'd run into them in the hall, elevator, etc. and all were very nice, down to earth people. They were "off the clock" and we had talk about the food in the restaurant, etc. but never reunion things.

I agree about the management thing posted above and Brian has been away from the Beach Boys group scenario for years now and that ship has sailed. I personally think that Mike does the big talk on the reunion to look like the "nice guy" extending the olive branch and when it doesn't happen, he can fall back on "well the other guys didn't want to do it" excuse. In reality, Mike has always been the one to stir the pot with the lawsuits all along.

I really don't think the "general public fans" give a rat's behind whether or not they have a reunion. I don't think that there is mucho bucks to be made on it either. I'd rather see Brian and HIS band play or Mike/Bruce or Al, but NOT together again. There's too much history there. I think a reunion would not be worth the trouble/heartache/lawsuit that would come out of it and you know there is nothing to gain by doing it.

Sometimes I think we over analyze things on these boards and the reunion thing is one of them. No matter how much we want/don't want it to happen, it's up to the actual people involved and I really think we should let sleeping dogs alone.

What if you had said ".......please do a reunion thing........" ? They'd have answered "it will probably happen, don't worry about that, etc".

I could not disagree more. Of all the surviving Beach Boys, Mike is not only the one who would want it the most, I think it's actually a priority in his life/career right now. Sure, touring around the world with Bruce, his son, and some good guys is a great gig. But, doing a 50th Reunion is something new, something special, and above all, Brian would be included. That's what Mike wants most of all, to do ANYTHING with Brian....

The chances of them having another hit single with a classy song are probably rather small... But with something clever and gimmicky, you never know. Like "Surfin' Macarena" or something.  ;D

A "Surfin' Macarena" would be nothing more than a repeat of "Wipe Out"!!

Well, I guess Mike should have thought about THAT years ago before he started all the lawsuits.

I don't think so babe. I think they are honest enough to have said something like...."...you never know how things will play out, or we'll see....."  In talking to David, I feel he is an honest guy and wouldn't B.S. me about that. There's a quote somewhere about Brian saying no to the idea as well. I personally think it would be a fiasco and a mess. I don't want to watch a meltdown in progress of my favorite musicians and I think that would be the result. IF it did happen, where would they go from there???? I think things are just fine the way they are. Which poet said "You can never go home again"?

Ya know I would like to see Brian and Mike sing again, be close.

But a reunion just wouldn't work, it's good to know they realise that.

We all would like that but Mike has been Mike for so long and Brian hasn't been the friendly cousin either so just the thought of them together again would be so hard to believe - in other words, if you close your eyes and see those two sharing a microphone, I can't help but to cringe because it would seem so fake, so staged, so forced.  I would never believe that Brian and Mike would WANT to be together again as Beach Boys.  They both are so polar to each other.

Time waits for no one!

In the last 48 years in the Beach Boys' arena, meaning composing songs, in the recording studio, or on the concert stage - not at a wedding reception, birthday party, or a courtroom - other than a few months of SMiLE in 1966, when did Mike and Brian NOT work well together?

The Lovester's definition of 'Beach Boys', as history proves, is a little loose..... who says he couldn't just get Brian and call it a 'reunion'? Reunions are/were somewhat fashionable, although that none of them have stuck doesn't bother Mike.
And with Brian's stubborn management, it's not looking likely. They'd want Brian at the forefront of a BB's reunion, which obivously wouldn't sail with Mike.


Well THAT isn't subjective in the slightest. Unless you're not talking about quality, rather quantity. They've written a lot of songs, that's for damn sure.  Quality-wise..... hmm.

Boy what a negative thread...

If theres a way to bring a fan down about their favorite band, this thread would be the way to go. :'(

Yeah, can't we just have world peace already? Whew, time for me to meditate.....seriously! Ommm..... ;)

Yes, it is subjective. I think I like about 95-99% of the songs that have a B. Wilson/M. Love credit. But, why don't you try it or think about it. Look at the entire list of songs and see if your favorable percentage isn't in the 95-99% category.

Not negativity doll, just reality. Sometimes when money and ego come into play, its bound to have problems.


I'm happy the way things are. Not perfect, but it's something.

I'm with you there Sheriff - their record is pretty impeccable. Whether or not they could still write decent songs together I don't know.

It's been a long time since Mike and Brian collaborated together with music or anything else for that matter. Brian's worked with Tony Asher on Pet Sounds, Van Dyke on Smile, Scott Bennett for TLOS, etc. When WAS the last time he and Mike did a song together????

I think that Brian has passed the musical stage of the Beach Boys and gone further ahead muscially. I was listening to TLOS last night, and the horns, violins, flutes, etc. all the instruments that Brian uses in his band now, is so much more advanced than the Mike/Bruce band. I'm sorry to say that the Mike/Bruce band could just be another tribute band who keep touring the world like so many others. Even Al does new music for goodness sakes.

Surfergirl, this is not depressing, it's something that we "discuss" on a fairly regular basis. Someday, we'll all get to say "you were wrong about that, and I was right".  Only time will tell.

How is being realistic negative?

I am not hot on a reunion. Sorry. John Lennon once said of a Beatles reunion "why should we divide the fishes and loaves again just because people didn't believe it the first time or weren't there?"

Brian and Michael were writing songs together as late as 1996. If you want to lay the blame on someone for that project not being seen through, ask Carl about it.

Michael's been doing music of his own for a while, it's just that he can't get someone to back his stuff anymore. Of course, that's why it's on the internet, although I've heard that Michael put it out himself (among other things, PRESUMABLY). So it's not like he's not making an effort to do his own thing.

They're all trying but they say they're happy doing what they're doing. Who are we to tell them "no"?

Which poet said "You can never go home again"?

That was actually a book from novelist Thomas Wolfe.  But that doesn't change your point.  And, I agree with you.  I don't want to see a reunion because it would be for all the wrong reasons.

Not if the five surviving Beach Boys truly want to work or perform with each other. Look at the proposed lineup - Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce and David. With the exception of the recent problem between Mike and Al (and I don't want to minimize it; it was/is serious), all of those guys got along with each other within the group. Really, they all seem to like each other within The Beach Boys' scope. They have a history, they made history, sharing things that not many groups could ever share. In some ways, they remain brothers, cousins, and friends. I'd like to think any of them would come to the aid of another if ever needed.

And, there is one important thing missing from a proposed reunion - drugs. Do you realize what havoc that one issue caused within the group? I know, that question wasn't necessary....But, drugs affected Brian's productivity, performance, and attitude; ditto for Dennis. Drugs divided the group and was the single most detrimental reason for the problems in the 70's and 80's. Most of the negativity that we view within the group - that could also influence one's opinion for a reunion - can be traced back to drugs, prescribed or unprescribed.

But, thankfully, the drugs are a thing of the past. And, I have to believe the guys are older and wiser. Isn't it possible or even probable that they learned from their mistakes, and would go out of their way to make sure those bad things don't happen again? Could history repeat itself? Of course, it would be naive to think that everything would be smooth sailing. But, taking drugs out of the equation at least gives them a much better chance at success....

No.  It wouldn't. 

Thank you!!!!

Sheriff, you are on die-hard optimist, I'll give you that!!!! Yeah, I can really see Mike coming to Al's recuse if he needed help...... You need to get off your drugs...you are obsessed with them in the BB world of the past. Cripes, almost everyone under 35 was on drugs at that time.

Thank YOU, Awsoman!!!!!

Sheriff, I told you before, Al and David said NO to the reunion. What makes you think they will change their minds? What about Brian saying NEVER??????  Let it go man....................

In their hearts, and that includes Brian, they want to stand TOGETHER on that stage as The Beach Boys. I know it.

And this is where you miss the point by a mile: the surviving members don't get along.  After years of lawsuits, bickering, lawsuits, drugs, and lawsuits, I think these guys have had enough of each other.

And what would be so magical about a couple of near 70-year-olds getting together to croak out songs like "409"?  What possible new material would be strong enough to stand on its own without Carl Wilson's strong vocals supporting it?  And albums like Summer In Paradise were made WITH Carl involved; imagine what nightmares could be produced without him. 


Seriously, let's just put this thing to bed.  We don't need a Beach Boys reunion.  And if you really think about it, you don't want one.  This absurd desire for some sort of "finality" or a "happy ending" to the Beach Boys story isn't gonna happen.  Just appreciate the good stuff they put out. 

You talking to me?

Weird, when it was announced that Al would join Brian's band, it was cheered by the same people who dread the mere thought of Mike and Brian ever sharing a stage again. I guess some reunions are more acceptable than others.

Donna - Mike just sang on Al's record (joining Carl and Brian).  Brian sang on Al's record.  Dave's on it. Dave appears with the Beach Boys all the time.  I'd really take what they told you with a grain of salt.   Surely the first two people on-board would be Al and Dave.

Eddie Van Halen swore they'd never, ever do anything again with David Lee Roth.  Never say never in the music business.  If the right deal comes along, they'll do it.

It's odd... I don't see this thread as negative in the slightest. I always found the Sheriff quite realistic, and it is refreshing that he takes this particular point of view. For me (I think I said it earlier), it is a distinct possibility. The guys all are approaching their three score-and-ten, and a sense of mortality is surely creeping up. That, combined with the prospect of a 50-year jubilee, will be alluring. Just imagine: Brian, Mike, Al, and Bruce sharing a mike (no pun intended...) - I think I might cry. Really.

And when a good 30-40% of those songs are retreads of the earlier stuff, i would say that's a non-working songwriting partnership. I was being a wee bit sarcastic in my post, mind. I don't like as many of the wilson/love songs as you, and yes,  i have thought about it.

But on topic....

'never say never' is probably correct. Anyone remember Richard Ashcroft saying 'You'd see the beatles reunion before The Verve's?'. The sense of occasion, if they can sort out any personal wrangles, should do the trick. I really wouldn't expect any new material, but i'd like to be proved wrong  :)

Re-wind to July 1969.

Someone tells you: 'in 2009, you will see Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin, and Mike Collins, together with a coloured president of the U.S.A., in a relaxed interview setting on your plasma television'.

How would you react?

Earlier this year, Wes Borland said that he definately wouldn't rejoin Limp Bizkit for their reunion tour and called his former band's music "random lyrics on top of music that sounds cool" and said that it "didn't make sense". Two weeks later he rejoined the band.

How many times has it been said that Roger Waters would never go on stage with Pink Floyd again? Or that Blink-182 would never reunite? Didn't Don Henley say that The Eagles would play together again "when hell freezes over"?

Things like that happen all the time.

Well, yeah.  Maybe Carrie could answer for David?

I'm guessing, they currently don't expect Brian's management to allow it. As others have pointed out , never never means never, sometimes.

I thought it was said a few months ago that David Marks just wants to work at all? I thought that was the reason why he had played a few dates with the touring BBs and plays with Al and/or the Surf City All Stars.

I don't see why he wouldn't want to participate in a reunion if there was one.

I would think those comments were more about them preparing themselves if all the speculation doesn't actually turn into something, which is perfectly alright, but I wouldn't take anything anyone says at this point so seriously. Until the 50th Anniversay passes and either something or nothing happens, these are all rumors. Relax.  8)

What exactly was the founding date of the BBs, by the way? I want to construct a backwards counting stopwatch on my PC.

It would be emotional, wouldn't it....Can you picture, at a reunion concert, the guys performing "Surfer Girl", and Brian introducing it as the first song he ever wrote. After the song (to later be "fixed" in the studio ;D) is over, Brian gets a standing ovation, and Mike proceeds to walk over to Brian, and both guys embrace.

Or, later in the show, "Kokomo" is performed, and, after the song is over, and another standing ovation, Brian walks over to Mike, raises Mike's hand, and yells out to the applauding audience, "Mike Love!". And Mike stands there proudly, finally getting the recognition from the man who means the most to him. It would mean EVERYTHING to Mike.

Now, who wouldn't want to see moments like that?

Sheriff -

if we continue painting dreams like this, we might play an ever so tiny role in the actual reunion...

...and score a couple of free tickets and flights on the side...

thejonstebbins.com/reunion.html (http://thejonstebbins.com/reunion.html)

They seemed to get along just fine there... And what has happened since then? Al toured with Brian. Nobody sued anyone. Mike seems to have lightened up in interviews. Brian proved with TLOS that there's still a bit of that magic left. And Al, Brian and Mike recorded a song together (well, more or less - they're all on the same song) for the first time in 13 years.

You'd think that there has never been a better time for a reunion than now, right?

Thanks for the link, LostArt. I missed it first time around. THAT'S what I'm getting at!

Same here.

I really don't have any idea what David said to Donna that left that impression...I know he discovered the Rock Star energy drink that day and was even more hyper than usual, so I can imagine that whatever it was, it was probably pretty funny.

Does he think its realistic that all the elements will align that need to for a reunion to logistically work out?  Not really.  But I would not say that he is "adamant it will never happen."  Johnnyhypothesis is right...he just wants to be out there playing, so of course he would want to participate IF anything happens.

Pick a date, any date...

December 30 1961 - first 'major' live show
December 23 1961 - first live appearence as The Beach Boys
November 1961 - "Surfin'/Luau" by The Beach Boys released on Candix 331
October 3 1961 - first Hite Morgan session, "Surfin'", "Luau" & "Lavender" recorded (as The Pendletones)
September 15 1961 - demo session for Hite Morgan (tracks as above)
Labor Day weekend September 2/3 1961 - the band rehearse "Surfin'" in Murry & Audree's absence (according to BB legend - questionable)
August 1961 - the band audition for Hite Morgan: Dennis says Mike & Brian have written a surfing song (he's lying...)
June 1961 - Alan returns to LA, meets Brian and they form a group with Mike & Carl
spring 1960 - for some early lineups of Carl & The Passions at Hawthorne High, Brian uses Mike and Carl
late 1950s - the Wilson & Love families harmonise at the Christmas gatherings of the latter.
mid-1950s - Brian, Dennis & Carl sing together after lights out in their bedroom at 3701 W. 119th Street.

Don't mean to stir anything up, but I told the truth as to what they said to me. Whether or not anyone was hyper that day didn't have any affect on my hearing!!!!!

I believe you, DonnaK. While we obviously disagree on this topic, I absolutely believe you reported what you heard. While I'm not that familiar with David's interviews, I've been saying for years that Al says the loopiest things. I actually look forward to Al's interviews JUST to hear/read what contradictory things he will say. Right now, to Al Jardine the new solo artist, a Beach Boys' reunion is "uncool", until the telephone rings...

I would be all for a reunion as long as everyone was happy about it.  Part of the reason is I would love to see them play Holland in full, I know that will not happen, but come on- it's the perfect choice! 

Late 1958, early 1959, Carl and David begin playing guitars together, Brian teaches them his orig. material.

First, to be clear...I am not speaking for Al, only David...and I never said you were lying, or misrepresenting what he said to you because I don't doubt for a second he made some flippant, anti-reunion comment to you that day.  And, it is true that David  jacked up on caffeine and ginseng does not affect your hearing...but it DOES affect what comes out of his mouth!!!!!

You are entitled to your opinion about whether or not a reunion will / should happen, and I respect that POV whatever it may be...but if are trying to use David to back-up your position, you'd be wrong because I happen know, for a fact, that if given the opportunity, he is more than on board for just about anything involving playing or recording with any of the other Beach Boys again.  And he'd do a damn good job, too!

I believe you, DonnaK. While we obviously disagree on this topic, I absolutely believe you reported what you heard. While I'm not that familiar with David's interviews, I've been saying for years that Al says the loopiest things. I actually look forward to Al's interviews JUST to hear/read what contradictory things he will say. Right now, to Al Jardine the new solo artist, a Beach Boys' reunion is "uncool", until the telephone rings...


Thanks Sheriff. YOU are not the person I want to have p.o'd at me!!!! Just reporting the facts as I heard them!!! I don't want anyone p.o'd at me!

Oh crap. Apparently I did it again. From now on, I refuse to repeat anything that anyone tells me. I didn't mean to imply that David or Al were lying Carrie, I just stated what they said to me when I brought the question up to them. Geez Louise...I really like you guys, you are so nice. Let's not get all upset about this. Please!!!! I' m sure somedays they want a reunion, somedays they don't. It was a great pleasure meeting you, David, et al and I hope in the future you won't hold this against me!!!!

Is it? Anyway, I'd pay any amount of money if that performance would include the whole of Mt Vernon and Fairway.

[quote author=DonnaK link=topic=7551.msg122683#msg122683 date=1248315919]
"It's been a long time since Mike and Brian collaborated together with music or anything else for that matter. Brian's worked with Tony Asher on Pet Sounds, Van Dyke on Smile, Scott Bennett for TLOS, etc. When WAS the last time he and Mike did a song together????

I think that Brian has passed the musical stage of the Beach Boys and gone further ahead muscially. I was listening to TLOS last night, and the horns, violins, flutes, etc. all the instruments that Brian uses in his band now, is so much more advanced than the Mike/Bruce band. I'm sorry to say that the Mike/Bruce band could just be another tribute band who keep touring the world like so many others. Even Al does new music for goodness sakes."


To be fair, Mike's recorded at least one entire album of new stuff that no one cares to release. Brian could hand an hour of blank tape over to his lable and they'd release it and Brian people would praise it to high heaven. So, why slam him for playing the hits?
How is Brian really any different, other than releasing a new album? He has a BBs sound alike band and they play the hits too and other guys sing Mike's parts on many songs that Mike co-wrote! If that's fine, then leave him and Bruce alone and go praise Brian and his band. There's enough options Brian/Mike-wise/your entertainment dollar-wise to go around.

.......because nobody's interested in it!

yeah, and that's sad and stupid and people can't even make their own decisions on the matter because of how many years now of small minded people attempting to deter people from making their own minds up about The Beach Boys and who's the genius and who's not, and such merda! :'(

It wouldn't even look like A BB reunion, Brian and Mike would be sharing lead and somebody else would be singing falsetto.

Things are perfect as they are, but as I said a few pages back, I really wanna see all the guys talking again.

Something of a grandiose statement but one that got me thinking ... so I put it to the test ... an objective subjective test so to speak:

TEST #1:  My 7 favourite Beach Boy recordings: Don’t Worry Baby/Marcella/I Can Hear Music/God Only Knows/Surf’s Up/This Whole World/Forever. Not one Mike love writing credit. Test = FAIL

TEST #2: My compilation CD of 28 songs (best of the best) which I play around the house, in the car, etc.: I’ll save you the list and just summarise the writing credits.

B Wilson:   17.9%
B Wilson/Love:   28.6%
BW/Christian:   3.6%
BW/Asher:   10.7%
BW/Parks:   10.7%
BW/Other:   14.1%
Love/Other:   3.6%
D Wilson:   3.6%
C Wilson:   3.6%
Cover:      3.6%

Total B Wilson credits:   85.6%
Total M Love credits:   32.2%

Totally a personal opinion but pretty well sums up why i don’t rate Mike’s contribution to the band that highly especially considering some contributions may have been of a minor nature compared to the bulk of the composition and why I’m not particularly fussed one way or another about a reunion. I’m pretty happy with the Brian Wilson status quo. None the less an interesting exercise.

I'm not gonna mess with percenteges, but here's another guy's personal opinion.

Here are my top 10 fave Beach Boys songs/recordings

1. Cool Cool Water
2. The Warmth Of The Sun
3. Forever
4. All I Wanna Do (Sunflower)
5. In My Room
6. Fun Fun Fun (yes, seriously)
7. California Girls
8. Trader
9. Kiss Me Baby
10. Good Vibrations

7 out of the 10 involve Mike.....

Just another opinion

Great point Sheriff!!!

Thank you Carrie for clearing things up a bit.

Interesting personal perspective, but it has nothing to do with my post/statement/percentages. I didn't say that the B.Wilson/M.Love songs were the best. I didn't opine how they compared with other collaborations. And I didn't inform that they largely comprise the songs on my personal "best of" comp.

What I simply said was that I LIKE 'em. A very large percentage of them. Almost all of them. I was trying to make the point that, for the most part, when Brian and Mike worked together, something good usually came out of it. So, I'll ask again....Look at the entire list of B.Wilson/M.Love songs, and see if you do (or do not) like a large majority of them. I personally find very few that I don't like.

"You" as in the general public...

In all honesty it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the surviving members "reunited" in some fashion.  But I'm not all that interested in seeing it happen.  :-)

I had to filter through a list of songs so forgive me if I missed some but here is at least the majority of songs released that are credited to B. Wilson/M. Love:

"A Thing Or Two"
"All I Wanna Do"
"All Summer Long"
"Amusement Parks USA"
"And Your Dream Comes True"
"Anna Lee, The Healer"
"Aren't You Glad"
"Be True To Your School"
"California Girls"
"Catch A Wave"
"Cool, Cool Water"
"Country Air"
"Darlin'"
"Do It Again"
"Do You Remember?"
"Don't Back Down"
"Don't Hurt My Little Sister"
"Drive-In"
"Farmer's Daughter"
"Finders Keepers"
"Fun, Fun, Fun"
"Gettin' Hungry"
"The Girl From New York City"
"Goin' On"
"Good To My Baby"
"Good Vibrations"
"Hawaii"
"Help Me, Rhonda"
"Here Comes The Night"
"Kiss Me, Baby"
"Let The Wind Blow"
"Little Honda"
"Noble Surfer"
"Oh Darlin'"
"Our Car Club"
"Please Let Me Wonder"
"Run-Around Lover"
"Salt Lake City"
"Santa's Beard"
"She Knows Me Too Well"
"The Shift"
"Some Of Your Love"
"Story Of My Life"
"Sunshine"
"Surfers Rule"
"Surfin'"
"Surfin' Safari"
"Sweet Sunday Kinda Love"
"That Same Song"
"Thinkin' 'Bout You Baby"
"This Car Of Mine"
"The Warmth Of The Sun"
"Wendy"
"When Girls Get Together"
"When I Grow Up (To Be A Man)"
"Wild Honey"
"Wontcha Come Out Tonight?"
"You're So Good To Me"

mikeyj, thanks for taking the time to look up and post those songs. That list makes my point better than I ever could.

Yeah, and let's not forget, pretty much 99% of the whole Wild Honey album was written by Brian with Mike. Most people seem to love Wild Honey and it even gets good marks outside of Beach Boys onsessed circles.

Good point. A post-fun fun fun effort that worked!

The problem with being so close to the BB music is there is too much to like and it is too easy to find elements of even poor to bad Beach Boy songs that you can hang on to ... so I could find enjoyment and be favorale to say 95%+ of Brian & Landy or Dennis & Manson or Mike & Al collaborations as extreme examples, additionally I might be favourable to a song Mike & Brian collaborated on because of a some element such as a riff, middle eight, a lyric, a phrase or whatever of Brian's doing that Mike didn't contribute to - so I'm cautious - what I'm really looking for are those songs that send off a "chemical"reaction inside me that move me emotionally and send me to another place - they are the songs I rate in life not just any list. It's about quality not quantity and I look at that list Mikey provided and I'm just not moved emotionally by the majority of it.

Perhaps my biggest problem with rating Mike is that my personal taste in BB music really kicks in from the Today album onwards and by then Mike's glory days were coming to an end and Brian's desire was to work with other people, post SMiLE Mike's contributions apart from some work around Wild Honey and Friends, for me, becomes laboured and degenerates post C&TP and Holland into the realms of embarrasment. 

I remain unfussed one way or another about a reunion, who's on stage and who's not, but the one thing the Beach Boys legacy does not need is further embarrasment. Sadly a screwed up reunion could be the full stop in the Beach Boys', Mike Love's and Brian Wilson's careers not the beginning of the next chapter. If its going to be done its got to be done right and are Mike or Brian's people really capable of doing that?

TonyW, good post, and I see where you're coming from. I'm with you on a lot of what you said; I also find SOMETHING in ALL BB/BW songs to embrace, regardless of who the collaborator is.

I guess the reason(s) I singled out the Brian/Mike songs was because of:

1) Let's face it, if there ever is a Beach Boys' reunion album, the chances are pretty good that Mike will want to write with Brian. And, that triggers an automatic negative reaction from some fans on this board. I was simply asking them to look at the record(s) before writing it off; I thought they might be surprised when they actually looked at the list.

2) Some of Brian's collaborators have passed away - Gary Usher, Roger Christian, Murry Wilson, Carl Wilson, and Gene Landy. Others are probably out of the picture - Jack Rieley, Bruce Johnston, and Al Jardine. Now we're into Imagination, GIOMH and TLOS territory - Joe Thomas, Andy Paley, Steve Kalinich, and Scott Bennett (admittedly Scott did some good things on TLOS).

3) I suppose Tony Asher and Van Dyke Parks will always be in the mix because of the same Mike Love issue, meaning they have a history of excellence. Unless somebody new surfaces, Mike Love isn't a bad alternative.

I could certainly see Mike, Al, and Bruce coming out for the encore of a BW show and doing the whole "hits" set! I don't think the Brian camp would have it any other way, and it's actually easier for me to see Mike, Bruce and Al having the humility to be "guests" at a BW show, rather than the other way around. And I'm not even talking about Brian's take on the whole thing.

But that would be cool and everyone would probably be happy. Brian's band would be there and all the Brian maniacs could talk about how rusty Mike, Bruce, and Al's vocals are compared to Brian's band's, and the rest of us could blather in adoration about that special "Beach Boys vocal magic"...... Ugh, why is this depressing me?

Oops, I forgot to mention David in there too!

There must be something in the air...............this discussion is being brought up on the blooey now as well. Will it ever end?????

Well, considering the topic is probably brought up every two weeks on both boards, it isn't too surprising, is it?

I honestly didnt think this post would reach up to 6 pages seeing that, as Luther said, theres one every few weeks. People don't use the Search function. ;(

I don't think Mike would ever agree to that. Actually, at this stage, I don't think Bruce would either. Al probably would, though.

I can't see one member "joining up" or showing up at another's concert for a reunion. While I believe (and have posted) that the guys could work through the various differences that a reunion brings, I don't think Mike & Bruce or Brian is willing to simply leave their respective bands behind to join the other one. I believe they would have to reunite TOGETHER AS ONE BAND. How they go about that is the big question....

Imagine Mike making a surprise appearance during a BW show... I bet the place would explode. So why wouldn't he agree to that if given the opportunity?

The answer is too long! Seriously, while I agree, Mike showing up like that would cause a lot of excitement, and it would go a long way to the healing, well....there's a lot of reasons....

Mike's group IS the Beach Boys (like it or not), and I think he views it as Brian re-joining THEM. How many times has Mike said something like, "Brian's always welcome to sit in and join us...." I mean, I think Mike views his/this incarnation of The Beach Boys like those of the past - just without Dennis, Carl, and Brian. There's been so many different line-ups, almost all of them without Brian, that, this is business as usual. If and when Brian decides "to  come back" they'll welcome him with open arms. Well, almost! :o

Mike carrying on with the group in these past ten years or so during hard times (deaths,departures), combined with the success of "Kokomo", combined with the continuing sales of some Capitol comps (Sounds Of Summer), combined with the way Brian's and (soon to be) Al's solo careers not exactly blossoming, in Mike's eyes, gives him some leverage. But, you never know, he might swallow his pride because, as I have stated ad nauseum, I believe working with Brian is a big priority for Mike.

I agree, I think the other Boys' ego would allow them to appear at a Brian concert if it was convenient to their schedules. However, Brian wanted Mike to carry-on the Beach Boys in concert so if there is a re-union it should be getting together as the group not as guest stars to each other.

Woah, woah, woah wait a minute...Andy Paley and Bennett are two of Brian's best collaborators since the 70s...they have (had) done superb work in all departments...both enthused Brian during rough patches and got him excited enough to make new music in dry patches. Hell, his stuff with Paley is the best stuff he did in nearly twenty years! Bennett also got Brian writing new, fresh stuff when I (and many others) thought he couldn't do it anymore...I love Mike too but we can't gloss over their contributions...

You're trying to reason with someone who hates solo Brian simple because it's not the Beach Boys. And he thinks his opinion on solo Brian is THE ONLY ONE THAT MATTERS AND IS THE MAJORITY OPINION (never mind the fact that his opinion is actually in the minority).

I'm not as fond of the Wilson/Paley sessions as some are. The songs are OK, a couple are really good, but I wouldn't put it on a par with Brian's prior stuff.

Scott did an excellent job writing songs for, er, with Brian. I like a couple of the TLOS songs, which ARE on a par with Brian's previous stuff, at least his previous solo work. It will be interesting to see if Brian writes with Scott again (Brian has used a lot of different collaborators in his solo career); it would be even more interesting if there is a reunion album of any sort and Brian chooses Scott!

If there were a product marketed as a reunion album or show that incorporates "new" material, there is no way it would be Wilson/Paley, Wilson/Bennett, or anything else, unless it were Wilson/Love/Paley, Wilson/Love/Bennett, etc. And it has nothing to do with the quality of the product. If they are going to market something as a reunion, they are going to go all-out about it. Real feel-good, mushy stuff that nobody (except the people who believe Leaf films are objective documentaries) would believe.

I think that if there is any kind of 50th Reunion thing it will be a one off (or 2-3 nights) stand in LA filmed for a DVD and live album. (No tour)  Even Bruce says he'd do that.
The only thing that would stop it is Brian and his management.

Some kind of new release would have to happen to  go along with the Reunion show and make the whole thing a big event. "Reunion Show/New Album - then DVD/Live album" - Bingo:  The Beach Boys  at 50.

As to an album of all new BB material - never going to happen.

But I can see something like one new "Love/Wilson" penned song done by the five members (Bruce, David, Mike, Al and Brian) along with tracks from the vault (1996 sessions, etc.)
or a new song plus solo tracks along the lines of my "Solo Sampler" thread.

See:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,4721.0.html

Wow that statement gets my mind flowing – particularly in two directions:

Thought Stream 1#: Mike does not own the Beach Boys name, it is owned by BRI and Mike licenses the name and the right to do live shows under the Beach Boys name, the licence also excludes Mike from releasing recordings under the Beach Boys name. It’s a licensor (BRI) and licensee (Mike Love) relationship and as a licensee you KNOW you do not own the name ... you pay royalties to the licensor at regular intervals, you’re limited in the use of the name, you must comply with the terms and conditions of the license and you know the agreement has a fixed termination date. Mike’s a litigious bastard and knows very well every dotted “i”, crossed “t” and punctuation mark on that license agreement. That said, until the licence agreement terminates, anybody - former Beach Boy, BRI principle, former band side kick, etc would be Mike’s “guest” on stage.   

Thought Stream #2: So when does the Term of the existing licence expire (date on which the licence ceases to apply and all rights return to BRI)?  Does it expire before the 50th anniversary? If not have any special provisions been built into the licence to cover an important occurrence such as the anniversary?

As much as we could speculate over what Mike feels, what Brian’s people want or don’t want, if Bruce will sit in the 5th row and watches the show, if Al is on the bus yet and if anybody has remembered to tell David it’s on - the really important issue in all of this might be none of them but might in fact be the piece of paper know as the licence agreement.

Never mind the fact too that Brian's spent his whole solo career basically milking off of the Beach Boys' formula. Yes, I know he created it, but still. Old dogs, new tricks, that kinda thing. Maybe Brian will one day give us that album of jazz standards. :)

But what else would you expect of him? Once he stopped recording with the band, would you have expected death metal?

That kind of music is what he is good at. It's what he likes, presumably. And it's what, historically, he has been able to sell. There isn't any (believable) evidence that Brian had major musical problems with the Beach Boys, that he had to abandon them because he was itching to bring 12-tone rows into their sound. They didn't get along. So when he left, he made the same music he had been making, only without them.  And they kept making the same music they had been making, only without him.

I think of it as Brian making BB records without the BB. John Fogerty not only gets a free pass but gets tons of critcal acclaim for "milking off of ther CCR formula" which could also be interpeted as making CCR records without Doug and Stu. In fact I said exactly the same thing about solo John to some CCR fans on Susan's board and got shut down (no pun intended). If anybody deserves to milk the BB formula, it's Brian simply because he created it. Same with Fogerty and CCR's.

Brian's solo career will be a footnote in his bio 5 minutes after he passes away. No need to get all fussed up about peanuts.

I think "footnote" is overstating it, although artistically it isn't a bad term. But if we're talking literally about his bio, it will always be a significant piece of "the Brian Wilson story" because of the state he had been in and the personal-professional re-emergence as an almost-functional human being and professional musician, however propped up he may have been through it all. That, and of course the performance of Pet Sounds and performance and recording of Smile. Those facts will keep it a significant piece of the story, if not its songs, the canon.

Brian's 1980 bark comes close. :)

Simply not true. Scott and Brian had one very productive month in 2006 and I have NEVER heard ANYONE say that they were doing anything less than PURE collaboration, not even the skeptics. Yes, Scott wrote lyrics for Brian, but no more so than a role that Tony Asher, Van Dyke Parks, or even your soon to be fiance Mike Love. Brian was composing pure melodies, albeit with a few leftovers; certainly every song (not narrative or segue) but "Live Let Live" and "California Role," was composed in a traditional way. Yes, Brian took a few concessions with the released album (I know that he acquiesced to having a verse of "Live Let Live" cut and that "Mexican Girl" was recorded more than once), but it was a pure collaboration in the writing stage.

I'm sorry if I come across harsh in this, but I just can't stand when people say something to the effect of "Oh yeah, Brian wrote songs on TLOS" all sarcastically. It's just a launch button and patently not true.

No problem, Td. You just go ahead and vent; it's good for you. But, really, sheesh, it was just a little attempt at humor. Ha ha.

And, I have to correct you. Mike Love is NOT my fiance; we're just dating. I just can't stand it when people say something to that effect. It's just a launch button and patently not true.

I'm really curious as to what it would sound like if all the remaining guys cut a record together. 

I have a feeling that we would all be let down by that to some degree.  Even if you take the same guys and put them in front of a mic, it's not going to sound like the 20-something year old Beach Boys we know and love.  There may be some familiarity to it, but at the end of the day, it would be a bunch of old guys singing parts that their voices really aren't able to handle anymore.

On the other hand, maybe some studio magic and renewed inspiration would make the results better than I'm anticipating.

Without augmentation, not good.

Okay, Sherriff, then the next time I think I hear a bad Mike Love lyric I'll take it as an (admittedly misguided) little attempt at humor. As long as you can be the wee bit more positive about Brian's solo career (as it is).

I mean my goodness, we agree about every other musical artist (Dylan, Macca, Dennis Wilson, Sparks, The Band) AND we're both supporters of The Beach Boys Love You...we're bound to drift apart for a little bit of a spell...but can we still be friends? ;D

Only if you add The Doors to that list. :police:

Yes you MUST add the Doors to that list. I'm in agreement there  ;D

With regards to the whole reunion business (and that's what it looks like to me...business), I can only support a reunion if there's a real organic reason for a reunion.

Say what you will, but McCartney, Dylan and Neil Young are still thinking, breathing creators that while they acknowledge their back-catalog, don't shirk from the responsibility to create something new, exciting and vital. Whether or not it hits the mark, they don't back down...don't back down, from that wave.

I'm only interested in a BB's reunion if there's a musical REASON for them to do it again...not some half-baked nostalgia trip.

And btw, I'd be the first to be blown away and over the moon over an awesome musical reconciliation. Not some half-assed comp disc of solo tracks like the Hallmark ceedee.

Then you aren't and won't be interested. When was the last time the full band did something that wasn't a half-baked nostalgia trip? (Hint: LA.) That's 30 years ago..

Ummm..."Where I Belong", "Somewhere Near Japan"...There was some good stuff hidden underneath all the crap!!

OK, I guess if you consider that sort of thing good, then perhaps you would enjoy new stuff. I don't, and doubt I would.

I'd love to hear a new Beach Boys song as convincing as "Somewhere Near Japan". That song is as good as anything the group ever did when Brian Wilson wasn't involved as main songwriter/producer, to these ears anyway.

That is also one of the reasons why I would prefer that they play a hand full of live dates together, and not rush into recording more nostalgic songs. If they record new material, I don't see any way in which it won't be trying to reach back to their old hits. They're not going to make another Sunflower.

In my opinion, it would be fun to watch the old guys get together and enjoy revisiting the old times, without trying to add the pressure of making new records. In my mind, that could only come later, if at all. But something like a storytellers show, kind of like the 1993 Box Set tour, with all of the surviving members up there...that could be really nice.

I down with this; ol' farts doing their well-earned ol' fart thing.

I can see it now: Happy Endings: The Beach Boys 50th Anniversary Summer Spectacular (with special guest Little Richard)

 ;D I'd pay to see that

Is Little Richard still alive?

Brian did NOT create the Beach Boys formula!

The Beach Boys did!!!

Brian had some chords, Dennis had the subject matter, Mike had the lyrics (some of them) and the nasal lead/bass vocal, Brian had the fallsetto, and Al and Carl had a back-ups.... THAT is the Beach Boys formula! if anyone deserves the lions share of the credit, it's Dennis! if he hadn't insisted on them wrtiting about surfing, I doubt we'd have ever known about these guys. People really need to stop perpetuating myths. Sure, Brian took the formula and ran with it and was leader, without a doubt! But he did not singlehandedly create the Beach Boys formula!!!

Yep.

A-Wop-bop-a-loo-lop a-lop-bam-boo!!
(http://www.concertshots.com/December%20Images/cs-LittleRichard10-Atlanta123102.JPG)

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,6005.0.html

It may conflict with your opinion, but that doesn't make it a myth.  It depends on the definition of "the Beach Boys formula", which is pretty subjective. If somebody asked me, I'd have said "Chuck Berry + Phil Spector + the Four Freshmen, and it grew from there."  The surf and car stuff was certainly important, too, but I usually wouldn't think of that right away because other bands were already doing all that stuff.

And I definitely don't agree that Brian would likely never have been heard from if not for Dennis' suggestion.

On a separate issue, whatever kick-start the Beach Boys got from the surf (Dennis)-and-car (Gary Usher?) gimmick, they sure paid for it later.

I honestly don't understand how anyone can fail to see the creation of the Beach Boys formula as anything other than a collaboration. I really don't get this hardcore desire to make Brian singlehandedly responsible for it. I simply don't. I just chalk it up to lazy hero worship and lazy "rock" journalism.

Brian didn't tell Mike to sing in a nasal voice and sound like some punk kid, did he?

Did he decide to write about surfing ?(and it's absolutely silly to claim that the subject matter had nothing to do with the BBs early success. And it demonstrates and ignorance toward pop music history in general)

Did he force Carl to become a Chuck Berry obsessive and to want to bring that element to their music?

Did he decide to put in the doo wop style bass vocal from Mike?

I think the answer is no to at least 3 if not all of those questions.

This just means the creation of the Beach Boys formula was a collaboration! And magical collaborations are a wonderful thing. Why not embrace it??

Thank you kindly!

It will come in handy! ;D

"On a separate issue, whatever kick-start the Beach Boys got from the surf (Dennis)-and-car (Gary Usher?) gimmick, they sure paid for it later."

Ok, speaking of subjectivity!!!!!!

Brian was the master chef and the individual guys were the ingredients in the chef's gournet feast.

It isn't lazy rock journalism to point out that Brian led the BB during the years where there music became part of the cultural fabric. 

And I'm not denying that!

But the myth that Brian singlehandedly invented/created the Beach Boys formula is false!

Seems to me that a moderator also repeated the myth.

And you didn't bitchslap him.

I'm not bitchslapping anyone!

And to be honest, enough people have perpetuated this myth to fill all the stadiums The Beach Boys ever played!

and who is a moderator but another fan like the rest of us???

Subjective, sure, but I bet a lot of people would agree with it, and I bet  just about every band member, including Mike, would agree with it. At some point- not always- the beach became a stone around their necks.

Thanks for pointing out to me how flawed my entire thought process is and how shallow and unthinking I am for seeing things differently than you.

I love every member of the band and value their contributions.  They were matchless as a singing unit and Mike has a great bass voice.  I like him tremendously as a lead singer, too.  But I must say that I don't see "nasality" as the cornerstone of their success or as a striking innovation. 

The "Beach Boys formula"- as I've said, I don't know exactly what that means.  It's a highly subjective term. To me, the essence of the Beach Boys was the songwriting- especially the melodies- the production, and the singing, and those three things came primarily from Brian's brain.  It's worth noting that he had his first number one hit away from the group (and they had their last without him, a quarter century later). I think he worked very well with the guys, and at times worked very well without them.  They did some good work without him, too- mainly Dennis, much later. But if you stack up the best of the Brian-driven material on one side and best of the not-Brian material on the other, even with all of Dennis' great stuff, I think Mr. Wilson's legacy is pretty secure. Just an opinion, again.

So yeah, my thoughts are definitely subjective, as are most people's.   But no agenda, no "hardcore desire" involved, they're just my own opinions.  And I don't regard your view as a "myth", and I won't wag my finger at you for posting it.  I don't think it's the result of lazy hero worship or the thrall of rock journalism.

So Brian foaded with his own formula?  :ahh

Jeez! Wag your finger then talk about how you "won't" wag your finger??

I am ONLY talking about that initial spark of the Beach Boys formula coming together!!! I'm talking about 1961 here and nothing else!! Just those crucial elements that came together to create the template of what the Beach Boys took and ran with!

Yikes!!!!

And I think Mike's nasal/talk-sing thing WAS an innovation! And to claim something as an innovation doesn't exactly qualify it as something genius to be exaulted to high heaven like every single thing Brian's ever done. But it WAS different and made the Beach Boys stand out in a simple way! Aside from all the other points that made them stand out.

People really do have a hard time getting their heads around collaboration!

Still getting over your new avatar RobMac...makes me laugh silly.

Well, we continue to disagree, then.  I said I won't chastise you for posting your opinions (though I will disagree with those views at times), and I didn't. 

This is generally a laid-back and civil board- if you're looking for a Beach Boys Fight Club, I think they're out there for you. maybe someone could post some links. If I ever do change my mind and wag my finger at you, you'll note the difference.

a laid back board until someone disagrees with general concensus!  :p

Congratulations- I think that's all 21 of your posts that I've disagreed with, or what I've read of them.  All the contention here is coming from you taking an insulting and overbearing tone, and not liking having that pointed out.

It's been a remarkably peaceful and civil board since I got here, to some older version of it, in 2004 or so, and people disagree here all the time, but respectfully and as friends for the most part.  (Except when Andrew clubs us like baby seals, but  he only does that when we're asking for it).

Relax, have a beer or a glass of wine, and resign yourself to a world in which Brian Wilson receives more acclaim than you think he deserves. 

insulting and overbearing tone????

This brings up that old word "subjectivity"

Ok, you can have your cave and carry the bigger club!

I think you and I would define the bigger club quite differently.

I'd really like to burden the board less with this increasingly pathetic and shrill personal exchange; I think you'd love to make it a star attraction.  Again, I hear there are some nasty Beach Boys boards out there where this kind of thing is welcome, if you'd just go look for 'em.

insulting and overbearing????

who are we talking about here?

Right- I should have said "attempts to be insulting and overbearing". Don't think you could actually overbear anyone from what I've seen so far.

and I would never even think of overbearing anyone!

you are taking this way too far and much too personal!

If I'd take back anything I've said, I'd take back the part about "lazy hero worship" (which is what you seemed to really take offense to) I should have just left it at "lazy rock journalism" which is a point I can defend. And I really only meant lazy hero worship by certain writers.

We just feel passionatly about two different points of view, and both are valid.

Just to get the conversation back onto the subject, and since no one responded to these:



To his credit, no.  And I don't think that describes Mike's singing fairly at all.



Yes, after Dennis' suggestion.



Agree, that's why I never said any such thing.



Arguably yes, (though of course he didn't "force" Carl) since using Berry as the template for "Surfin" USA was Brian's idea.  They all loved Berry; Brian brought him directly into the sound with "Surfin' USA", "Fun. Fun, Fun", and others..



Arguably yes, since the doo wop connection went back to their youths, and Mike has often cited Brian's obsession with it, and since Brian provided the melodies and arrangements that brought it in the door.  But I'd split the credit with Mike there.




And I don't.  But the sun will still rise tomorrow.

Not taking it personally at all, just responding to comments directed at me.



And here at last, we agree.  I'm not as passionate about the subject as you, since I'm in the middle ground, but glad we agree to disagree and please consider any insults from me withdrawn with pleasure.

Agreeing is nice!!!! And yes, here we do!

We both love this band therefore are really on the same page when it comes down to it!

Speaking from passion and from anger can sometimes feel like the same thing...... I shall be more careful of those lines blurring from now on!

So, with that I think I'm liking your suggestion about having a little wine!  :-D

Cheers, Erik!

*wipes sweaty forehead with a Kleenex*

Good. That this is not taken to court, I mean.

*walks out, but returns just before having shut the door behind him*

Gentlemen, there's still one slight thing that bothers me...

__________________________

Chief Superint. Columbo

Haha, well, we'll have to have this discussion out of court and off the record. I certainly am not throwing my hat back in this ring. In fact, I don't think I'll be posting here anymore at all. My opinions on a couple of key topics are of such a minority, I feel I'd be better off claiming the earth is flat!  :P

 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

No, no, no. Your opinions are appreciated; we need different views on different topics. Take a couple of days off and come back ready to post!

Please don't leave on my account.  And I never objected to your views at all, I was just joined the thread by attempting to make the point that the other view is not a myth or the result of lazy thinking or hero-worship.  And I got much too acid at some point, and I apologize for that- a lapse in manners on my part.  Your opinions are quite reasonable, whether or not I agree, or anyone else does or doesn't.

I appreciate the kind words, guys. As usual The Sherrif has it right!

I think I'll plop the neddle down on side one of my vinyl copy of Summer In Paradise, get out a lawnchair, put it on my deck, watch a few sunsets, then wander on back at some point.  :p

I am said moderator who also perpetuates the not-really-a-myth-but-more-so-an-OBJECTIVE viewpoint. Said viewpoint, while not exactly taxing to say or even postulate, is one that will get you bitchslapped by the legions of Brianistas everywhere. Not to take anything away from Brian (and I have never made an attempt to do so despite the man's sickening sociopathic tendencies), but, I've said it before and again - Brian Wilson is not The Beach Boys. The Beach Boys are The Beach Boys. One man is not a band. We have to take the whole package, not the 1961-67 work. We could very much argue that Dennis was The Beach Boys when Brian took two thousand steps back, a lot of cocaine, heroin, birthday cake, T-bones, et cetera.

Just for shits and giggles, of course.

Brian helped them reach where they ended up, and in the end, the party was over for them all. So we could very much argue that Brian was also the man who destroyed The Beach Boys. Now there are three factions within the band, innumerable factions of misled and misguided fans stinking up the forums, and one or two odd voices of a little thing called reason that are pretty much ignored by "those who know better".

Erik, I salute you.

And I do find it funny that McCabe basically copied my personal text and threw a shitty picture of David Leaf on his avatar (a far more offensive figure than Michael could ever be) in what is obviously a cheap game of copycat which five year olds play. He didn't, however, make an attempt to copy my little personal salute, which would probably do better for him.  But I would hate to be thought of as making SUBJECTIVE statements. :)

Truth in advertising and all that. But, that would give McCabe something in common with Michael. Hopefully, Erik, this will give you an insight as to the kind of people you deal with in the Brianista community.

Welcome to the board, brother. Hold your head up high and keep the faith.

Well, I say Ricky Fataar is the Beach Boys.

No. John Stamos is.

You're all crazy. It's Murry - He's a genius too...

Yes.

There are a large number of reasons why some kind of reunion will happen in fall 2011, and every last one is prefaced with a

$

I really agree with you when you say that Brian Wilson alone is not the Beach Boys.  The only thing I would point out is that if you look at each member's significance in the formation and growth of the group, BW has the biggest slice by far.

That really doesn't bother me. I'll be happy to see them, even if it is just for some extra cash.

Yep, same. I will be more than happy to fly to LA, or wherever the reunion takes place to catch them all onstage together for the occasion.

It's Al! He's the one that asked Brian to start a musical group!!

  The Four Freshmen

I'd prefer a reunion of Cap'n Geech & the Shrimp Shack Shooters more personally.


 :lol :lol

[quote author=.
And I do find it funny that McCabe basically copied my personal text and threw a shitty picture of David Leaf on his avatar (a far more offensive figure than Michael could ever be) in what is obviously a cheap game of copycat which five year olds play. He didn't, however, make an attempt to copy my little personal salute, which would probably do better for him.  But I would hate to be thought of as making SUBJECTIVE statements. :)
[/quote]

All I'll say is that having a picture of David Leaf up there smirking at us will lead no conversation down the path of reason!!

And I didn't even know what the man looked like until right now!!!

Guess Audree was right about them vibrations!!!!!

This is all in good fun!

Side two of Summer In Paradise just ended and as soon as the nausea subsides I'll wander on back.

Oh, THAT's Mr. David Leaf, the mastermind of all Brianistas? Godamn, it figures...  :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

I personally think you summed up the whole subject the best. I totally agree, sometimes I dont like to share my opinions for fear of getting ran off here though, I'll be honest.

Eh, dont worry about that Little Surfer Girl! Feel free to bring it!!! Nice tribute page by the way

I really agree with you when you say that Brian Wilson alone is not the Beach Boys.  The only thing I would point out is that if you look at each member's significance in the formation and growth of the group, BW has the biggest slice by far.
[/quote]



And I agree completely!!!!

This is why I tried to stress that I am ONLY talking about that intitial stew of ingrediants being tossesd in the pot and cooked up back in 1961, that's it!

And I guess I wouldn't feel so strongly about this if I didn't feel that the whole "Brian invented/created and is responsible for all things Beach Boys" ... opinion, has had a harmful effect on too many people who didn't deserve it, and I think it's the root of all the BBs subsequent problems. I think it really hurt people like Carl, Dennis, Al, and Mike. People who, if they hadn't been there, Brian would perhaps still be pounding out "feels" in a garage somewhere. Perhaps not! But we just can't say.

I think it's also hurt the Beach Boys perception in the history book for all time to come. And it's the same reason why the Beach Boys aren't universally held in the same regard as The Beatles.

Yes, these are just my opinions and are arguable. But I do feel strongly about them because I care.


My mom knew Dennis and was fond of him, so I kinda feel like I'm defending a family friend sometimes.

Jesus Christ. Quoting.

"Jesus Christ. Quoting."

:)

Well, it is rocket science, I suppose.

I'll throw in a quote for you:

"Brian Wilson is the Beach Boys.  We're just his messengers."

-Dennis Wilson-

  ;D

Without Dennis, Mike, Al or Carl the Beach Boys may have existed.
Without Brian, the Beach Boys would not exist.

It is, however, objectively incorrect to say Brian was the Beach Boys. The Beach Boys were a group. Brian dominated for a long time, and was chiefly responsible for their sound. Beyond his songwriting, the fact that Brian acted as producer means that, whatever input everybody else had, he had veto power.

It is also objectively incorrect to say that Mike Love is the smallest or most unnecessary part of The Beach Boys. In spite of what many view as his artistic shortcomings, he has proven himself able to deliver a consistent live show in a way that very few performers of his vintage have, year after year, since the group's heyday. That is no small feat.

Just because Brian was the backbone of the Beach Boys doesn't render moot the considerable contributions of the other members. Brian is a musical legend, and I love his music, but why do we need to hero-worship? He is a human just like Mike Love, and he has his idiosyncrasies just like Mike Love does.

Brian also benefits from a PR machine behind him that focuses incessantly on his mental illness and the hardships he has endured, painting him as a continual victim. And while I love Brian's solo career - I even listen to Gettin in Over my Head once in a while - it does get a bit tiring.

Mike can certainly be a huge jerk, and he has made some big mistakes along the way, but with his influence kept in check by the other Beach Boys, and even sometimes on his own, he has been capable of making some beautiful music.

If there is a reunion, and it is for the money, and the original Beach Boys perform together, I will enjoy it. If it is a live concert, I will be disappointed if they don't do some deep cuts. What intrigues me further is the prospect of new recorded material that is actually decent.  don't think they should get an outside producer - just let Brian and his band join up with Mike, Al, Bruce, and David. Get that Beach Boys vocal blend going and make some great new tunes.

There is a good chance that the reconstituted Beach Boys could commit another atrocity like "Summer In Paradise," but there's always the possibility that they would be cognizant of the fact that this is the last hurrah, and perhaps make something genuinely affecting. Wouldn't it be nice?

Went back and found full quotation:

"Brian Wilson is the Beach Boys.  We're just his messengers. He's everything, we're nothing."

-Dennis Wilson-

Beyond Brian, I think the biggest contributions in the band's golden age were from Mike, with his excellent lyrics, and he had the only voice in the mix that Brian couldn't really replicate. Hal Blaine made huge contributions, Carl did some great lead vocals; there were many, many supporting roles to whom credit is due.  They all did great work, especially under Brian's tight direction during his dynamic years, and over time, Dennis emerged as a major creative force and is really just getting his due now. They all stepped up to varying degrees later to give us brilliant tracks like "All This Is That" and "Feel Flows". But was any one of them irreplaceable? The only one I can say for certain was- Brian Wilson.

For my dough- just opinion, again, I don't claim the unassailable fortress of objective fact for it- Brian's brain was the show, and I think of how easily Pet Sounds, for example, could have been a solo record.  You could probably cobble quite a bit of it together that way.

I just quoted you quoting yourself quoting someone else. Just wanted to point that out!

A damn fine achievement, sir, and you may quote me!

 :lol

Might I again point out that no one is arguing against Brian as being the most important Beach Boy! I agree that it would be silly to do so.

ALL I'm saying is that the initial ingrediants which made up the original Beach Boys template, was not Brian's doing all on his own. And it's a template that was never really deviated upon. You always had either a Mike lead with the sweet Beach Boy harmonies, or you had a Brian lead with a Mike bass vocal or you had them switching off. And then you either had a sweet Carl, Al, or Brian lead with Mike bass vocals, or they swtiched off. You always had Mike to counterpoint the sweet Brianesque (if not actually Brian) voice. That is the Beach Boys sound. (though I guess Dennis did deviate things a bit, and all for the better)..... So, for my money, Mike is just as important in the genesis of the Beach Boys sound as Brian, simply by virtue of his voice and sensebility..... And then you had the lyrics/subject matter and so on.... It was a small goup of guys who came up with the sound and created this template....

But who was most important in the group's evolution and output? Brian of course!!!!!  :)

I kind of hated that quote, til l read the whole interview / article. Then it made sense.  :)

Success!

"Luther, my son.....

was it you earlier calling upon me to finally weigh in here?"

 - Jesus Christ

[/color]


I think it's also hurt the Beach Boys perception in the history book for all time to come. And it's the same reason why the Beach Boys aren't universally held in the same regard as The Beatles.

[/quote]

Well, the Beatles had three monster song-writers; the Beach Boys had one.  That makes a big difference right there.  Yes, Dennis was potentially a good songwriter but most of his music is largely unfocused.  Anyone that takes a listen to the Bambu stuff off of the Pacific Ocean Blue album will find that, while interesting, it's largely incohesive.  Even his best song, "Forever", didn't really know how to end itself.  Carl Wilson wasn't a slouch either, but other than "Feel Flows", "Long Promised Road" and "Heaven", I can't think of anything else he wrote that really stood out...

Wait, I'm your son? My mom's husband really has a lot of explaining to do...

And no, I don't think so. But you never know. I say a lot of things and barely pay attention to them. Still, I have a brother with your first name and last name-first initial, so I will go along with you on this despite not knowing quite what you may have said in said weigh-in.

I thought Danny Hutton, David Anderle, Mike Vosse, Paul Williams, Jules Seigel, Loren Schwartz, etc. were the original Brianistas!!

Padon my bad joke, Luther....

It wouldn't let me include a photo, so I've since modified my post....  :P

You, sir, are a great man. Alas, I was just whining about people's mind-numbing inability to master the quote feature of the board.

Well, the Beatles had three monster song-writers; the Beach Boys had one.  That makes a big difference right there.  Yes, Dennis was potentially a good songwriter but most of his music is largely unfocused.  Anyone that takes a listen to the Bambu stuff off of the Pacific Ocean Blue album will find that, while interesting, it's largely incohesive.  Even his best song, "Forever", didn't really know how to end itself.  Carl Wilson wasn't a slouch either, but other than "Feel Flows", "Long Promised Road" and "Heaven", I can't think of anything else he wrote that really stood out...


[/quote]


Agreed!

It didn't help that the Beach Boys camp was just an all over the place mess credits-wise. You had Mike (and Brian) writing great lyrics, but also Gary Usher, Roger Christian, Tony Asher, ect, various session musicians (who WERE the core band often, istead of just argumenting things) ... The Beatles presented a much more unified front! Though too many people still regard George as a bastard stepchild writing-wise...... which sucks.

That said, I think Dennis stacks up to Brian anyday as a writer/artist. But this is just my opinion.

Yeah, I know..... Someday I'll get the quote thing right.

In the meantime though, I'm liking this "fun with colors" thing!  :lol

Those bozos were just paving the way for Mr. Leaf.  :)

I find the end of "Forever" quite touching.

"So I'm goin' away, but not forever. I gotta love you anyway....forever...."

Sung in Dennis' melancholy voice, with Brian's (or Carl's on Spring) na na na's and that fade; it's vintage Dennis Wilson songwriting. Doesn't get much better than that.

I'll grant you Loren, maybe Siegel. But WIlliams (acomplished writer who was Phillip Dick's literary conservator), Danny Hutton (successful pop star) and David Anderle (successful producer/record company executive) were not bozos.

My favorite Beach Boys albums -- Friends, Sunflower, Surf's Up, Holland and In Concert -- are NOTHING without Dennis, Mike, Al, Carl, Bruce, Ricky and Blondie. Brian was not the Beach Boys during their coolest period. If you get rid of all the other group members' contributions, there's not much left.

Only one of those albums are in my top BB albums. Most of the rest predate 1967. I always felt the early 70's BB tried too hard to be something they weren't.

Actually, Luther, I think that scenario would put your mom on the hot seat.  No disrespect to her, give her my best!

So in the analogy above, Brian= John, Paul George, and George Martin; everybody else =Ringo?  That's cool, you won't find a bigger Ringo fan than me.

The anti-Brianistas scenario- call 'em the Brian-Contras- make a little more sense to me in Aegir's scenario, if you really prefer the stuff that came after he mostly flamed out.  I totally, absolutely cannot relate to not having Pet Sounds (or the SMiLE sessions, or Today! or Summer Days) in your top five Beach Boys albums, cannot grasp that listening experience, that way of life, that state of being at all, any more than I can grasp not loving "Let Him Run Wild" or "Salt Lake City", but I can respect it and acknowledge it. 

Even so, Friends, to me, is still Brian's album.  Most of the high-spots after he flamed out, for me, are still his- "Darlin'", "I Went To Sleep", "Time To Get Alone", "Sail On Sailor", "This Whole World", "Till I Die", "Busy Doin' Nothin", "Marcella", "Can't Wait Too Long", "Wild Honey", the Spring album, Love You...unless there's a movement afoot to take those away from him.

The Concert album that was mentioned- loaded with Brian's songs and influence. Remove his work and tell me what's left.  I guess another way I could sort of understand trying to debunk Brian's preeminence is if the Beach Boys' music to you is all about performance and other things than melodies and production. Fair enough if it is; that's another aspect of them, and maybe I just haven't tuned into it enough.

Ahhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

No one's trying to take anything away from Brian!!!

Just the idea that one guy all on his own created the Beach Boys formula, is the only thing being even slightly disagreed with!

Yeah, and comparing The Beach Boys with the Beatles is unfair and will get us no where...

Wanna know how I always get out of the Beach Boys vs. The Beatles argument (which ALWAYS starts the moment I claim the Beach Boys as my favorite band) ???

I simply state that the Beatles are the greatest band in history and The Beach Boys are the greatest vocal group in history! I'm usually greeted with a drawn back fist and I promptly flee!!!!

Maybe I'm nuts or missing something here, but I don't think the "fact" that a small group of brothers/cousins/friends together (no, not equally) came up with the magical formula of the Beach Boys, is a knock to Brian in any way! So they created this formula and Brian went and wrote a ton of killer songs (with Mike and others) and the rest is history! Brian's legacy is untouched!!

Agree completely on that.  The Beach Boys had no Lennon and McCartney, no Harrison, no Ringo.  But just as importantly the Beatles had no Brian Wilson.


As to the rest of it, I don't think we're nearly as far apart as you might think.

I think maybe it all just comes down to what you value, what you see as important, and even what period means the most to you.  During the period I love the most- and I think Mike Love might choose it, too, partly because it was the hit period- Brian was composing and arranging and in charge in the studio, where it counted (to me), and very frequently working alone until the others came in and filled in their vocals, often joined by Marilyn and Diane, Terry Melcher, Dean Torrence, whoever.  Al also played some fabulous bass, and so did others.  Mike wrote some great lyrics, and so did others. They were the '27 Yankees, and to me Brian was Ruth and Gehrig- or like Reggie later on, the straw that stirred the drink, and more than that.

Even when Carl stepped up and produced "I Can Hear Music"- a beautiful gem- he had learned from his big brother.  As to the genesis of the sound, I won't belabor it any further, but as I've detailed a few times, I think it came mainly from the same guy I have previously alluded to pretty frequently (Spector plus Berry plus the Freshmen; the surf theme isn't as unique or central, to me).

So I happen to think the legend is pretty accurate: many agree, others don't; fair enough.

Oh my. Man, have you lost your irony gland in an accident? Jeez.

... (cough, cough) ...

... back to the subject matter - the 50th reunion discussion. Mike Love's latest input:

http://www.mercurynews.com/peninsula/ci_12957588?nclick_check=1

Quote: "With the band's 50th anniversary coming up, Love envisions bringing Brian Wilson and Al Jardine back into the fold. He'd like to see a PBS special, as well as a movie or Broadway show along the lines of "Mamma Mia" or "Jersey Boys.""

... and just in case we should forget who was Mr Posetivity in the Beach Boys we have this quote from the Lovemeister: "I'm a Pisces and Brian Wilson is a Gemini. Astrologists say that Pisces work from inspiration and Geminis sometimes work from desperation ... or melancholy."
That settles it, now we know who was the real inspiration behind all that great work!  :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol   Surely an astrologist can't be wrong!

Of course it could be argued that after a certain point neither did the Beach Boys. And really, these days does Brian Wilson really have Brian Wilson...?

You're gettin' too esoteric for me, man.

:D

Well said.

Oh...boy.


If I hear Mike Love use the word 'melancholy' one more time, I'm gonna...I'm gonna... :wall

I absolutely hate musicals like Mamma Mia or Jersey Boys. I'm pretty sure there have been Beach Boys ones in the past. They make lame musicals out of most classic artists' stuff (there's an Elvis one, a John Denver one, a Queen one, countless Beatles ones I'm sure), but there's a reason that most of them aren't popular.

What??!!  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

GOOD VIBRATIONS was the name of the attempt to do a MAMMA MIA for the Beach Boys. Here's the Wikipedia entry for said musical:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Vibrations_(musical) ***

I'm a bit surprised Mike wasn't aware that a "broadway-type" show had already been done...or perhaps he's hoping a successful one will be produced.

***For some reason my attempt to create a link is leaving out the closed parentheses which causes it to fail, but click on the search link for GOOD VIBRATIONS (Musical) within Wikipedia and it takes you to the article.

 Scott Totten was a "broadway-type" show guy b4 The Beach Boys MD.

 

Yeah, that was it, ugh. I'm a Beach Boys fanatic and I wouldn't even want to see that.

And by the way,
should yield http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Vibrations_(musical) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Vibrations_(musical))

OK, after over 230 posts and 4100 views, where are we? This appears to be the consensus:

Mike - Not only would he support a reunion, he would PUSH FOR ONE!

Al - All it would take is a phone call, right?

Bruce - While he said something to the effect that he would be happy to sit in the seats with the fans and enjoy a reunion, he would undoubtedly follow Mike's lead and join in.

David - Carrie has posted (for David) on "another network" - and I'm paraphrasing, hopefully accurately - that David would be happy to play with any of the guys, that he enjoys performing good music with them.

Brian - The wild card; this is what I believe will happen. I think Brian will finish his current 2009 tour and then reassess the future. Sometime in 2010, I expect Melinda to gather Darian Sahanaja, Scott Bennett, maybe Jeff Foskett, possibly David Leaf, and definitely his manager for a brainstorming session. They will sit around Brian's living room and discuss Brian's next career move. Obviously, a Beach Boys' reunion of some type will come up. Melinda will give the "psychological" state of affairs; Darian, Scott, and Jeff will give their "artistic" opinions; David Leaf will give The Beach Boys' angle; and the manager/accountant/attorney will give the bottom line, meaning $$$$$. What do you think Brian will say? Anything? Will he echo what Melinda says? Or his new collaborator, Scott? Or, will he speak from his heart?

There WILL be a Beach Boys' reunion! :police:

Flag on the play - definitely not David Leaf, unless something's changed in the last few days.


Brian will say, "Well, my wife and mangers thought it would be a good idea, and I said "No way, way too scary"... but then they talked me around to the idea and hey it's cool. Yeah. Can I have some birthday cake now... please ?"

While you're saying that tongue planted firmly in cheek, that's EXACTLY what I think Brian WILL say.

Obviously, you know something about Leaf's current (non)status, but, don't you think for something as serious as a Beach Boys' reunion, especially with Leaf's knowledge on that subject, that his opinion would be requested?

Some years ago there was an interview with one of the guys in Brian's band. Not Darian, maybe Scott. When asked about Brian working with Mike again - I really don't remember - he stated categorically: Yeah, I think Brian should do that, it would be good for him. I thought it was very nice.

On the other hand , maybe he was one of the musicians who were let go last year.  :police:

Unless I'm misunderstanding things, David hasn't been Brian's manager for quite some time, right?

Oh, AGD and TdHabib, I'm aware of that; Leaf hasn't been around as much lately. But, he's probably the best friend Brian Wilson ever had, and he KNOWS The Beach Boys in ways that the rest of Brian's team might not (having lived through several "Brian's Back" campaigns). I think that Melinda would still want and value his opinion. I'm not saying Leaf would be active in the reunion (although he might if there's a DVD), but he will weigh in, IMO....

According to Mr. Leaf, he never was. But that's not what I'm getting at.

In response to your post... no, he hasn't... no he wasn't... no, he doesn't (the BB despise him for how he portrayed them in his book - they would never work with him)... and no, she wouldn't right now.

OK, I give. What happened between Melinda and David? I'm a Leaf on a windy day, pretty soon I'll be blown away....

Nothing good.

Ah the king of cryptic comments rises again to take his throne...

know what? a nice, perfect, satisfying reunion for my money would be to get all the guys: Mike, Al, Bruce, David, Brian, around a piano (played by Brian) where they would play a bunch of songs and talk and it would be amazing and there would be no confusion/bitterness over backing musicians etc, and the Beach Boys would demonstrate all the things we love about them just those 5 guys alone!

Not with the way they sing today....They need the "help" that the studio could provide, or they need amplification, backing vocalists, and singers to "shadow" them in concert. A capella or a simple piano (Brian couldn't play it anyway) would be disasterous.

Ah, c'mon! Al's voice is in pristine shape, same with Bruce, and to an extent, Mike!!!

I think they could pull it off in spades. Maybe they could get Matt Jardine or Carl's son to sub for him, but otherwise, I think it would be magical!!!

Expectations for them to sound exactly like the did in 1960-something would have to be tempered a bit, that's all.

I reckon a focussed Brian might be able to tickle the ivories adequately well.

But the prospect of them all piano-hugging together somehow doesn't ring good in my head.

I reckon that if there is a reunion it'll be in a line at the front of a stage – Bruce and Brian can have their keyboard props, Dave and Al contribute worthy guitars, Mike can blow us away with his sax solos* –  with many backing vocalists & musicians in the shadows.

There will of course be subsequent studio work but I doubt it'd be the full line-up in the studio at the same time.

David Leaf can contribute liner notes to any release and I'll check his punctuatio.n



* Okay, that last is the flawed bit!

Yep, that's the same picture I have in my head....except for the sax solos. :police:

I think my idea would work great!!!! Just the guys round a piano!

Ok, David Leaf can go UNDER the piano, if it will help!  >:D

That would be neat for one of those DVD extras or outtakes, or maybe - maybe - one song in concert, "Surfer Girl" or "In My Room" or something.....

or "Summer Of Love"!!!!!

 >:D

Brian playing "Summer of Love" on the piano with jazz chords would be awesome.

 >:D >:D

Yes, and they could all wear lifeguard uniforms like in the video!!

Man, I think we're onto something!!!

and they could even bring in the guy to mine saxaphone when there isn't even saxaphone in the song!!!!

How about Brian with his daughters on the backing vocals do "I'm Bugged At My Old Man", haha.

"He gave me some......"

Bring John Stamos  :lol

"Stoned with dad ...."

Yeah, this reunion's never gonna happen.

Why wasnt Christian or Matt on the tour?

Christian chose not to participate. Matt wasn't there because Al has no pull on the tour at all. It was between Mike and Brian exclusively, and the other guys were along for the ride.