The Smiley Smile Message Board

Whilst showering this morning, I was wondering: in how far have the reception and sales of BWPS been influenced by the current socio-politico-cultural climate? Sounds pretentious, I know. But would BWPS, had it been released in exactly the same form (on vinyl, mind) in 1967 have made an entirely different impact? I think so, and not only because the essential stuff trickled out into the open during 30 years. I think that, for the time being, the world has lost a lot of its innocence. There is more cynicism and apathy. People shrug their shoulders, and purchase the new Metallica set out of routine, they play it three times, and store it away. To me it seems like the need for pure beauty, colourful poetry, the pop music of a non-numbing character, has diminished. Of course there are exceptions.
It is with some sadness that I noticed BWPS receiving an A+ grading from the usually quite critical Robert Christgau, whilst its general impact on pop fans the world over has been limited. Is it a matter of Brian's age?

I could be completely wrong, of course. Please, discuss.

I remember one specific review of BWPS in particular, then printed in one of the music magazines I used to be writing for. It eventually said that this sounded like an album's worth of cheesy cover versions, inferior to what groups like the Super Furry Animals were producing. Mind you, I'm critical of quite a few aspects of BWPS myself (though I still appreciate it as a great triumph and beautiful record to be listening to) but after having witnessed the wonderful stage performances of Smile on two occasions, I was really disappointed by such a reaction that didn't seem to grasp the purely emotional impact the music did have on quite a few people.

Thanks for a most enlightening comment! Those words on the SFA say a lot... perhaps that is the age gap. If you were raised on a diet of BW disciples' music, then you might say: hey, BWPS sounds familiar! I could never say the same, in fact I am quite wary of bands who 'borrowed' just a bit too much from the BBs.

Nevertheless: for me, BWPS is a stunning album in its own right.

I heard BWPS BEFORE I heard most of the original tapes, and before I heard Smiley Smile. I had only heard the stereo remix of Heroes and Villains single, and the demo of Surf's Up on YOUTUBE. The only BB's albums I had heard when I listened to it was a three-disc compilation (The Platinum Collection), Sounds of Summer(another compilation) and 15BigOnes/Love you two-fer.

 I thought BWPS was BEAUTIFUL, BEAUTIFUL music. I didn't give a thought to the lyrics--still don't. I like VDP's lyrics a LOT, but I don't get too into any grand themes developed in BWPS--for one thing, I don't think they are very developed, and mainly I think they are there mostly to hang the music on.

For some time I thought that I would never have a need for the 'original Smile'. Then I got the Box Set, and that sort of changed.

I was 37 when I heard it, so I'm not part of youth culture, but neither am I a baby boomer with some nostalgic BB thing going.

Lovely story from a 'neutral' perspective.

To kind of riff off of what phirnis wrote--when reading reviews of BWPS it became clear really quickly if the writer was aware of the deep history of the recording or not.  I remember reading a couple reviews that treated BWPS as if it were just another contemporary release (like TLOS), and these writers totaly missed the point.  BWPS had the greatest back story of any record ever (I'd love to hear what album had a better one!), and that back story can't be left out of any assesment of BWPS.  So I thought a couple of the reviews I read were pretty naive.  Most reviews I read got it right and gave the album lots of praise.  Man, I was so excited when I heard BWPS was going to come out.

hmmm.... this might drag on for a while. But then, i am the 'yoof'  :3d

Well, i really loved Pet Sounds from the first time i heard it, which was when i was 15 or something like that, so i went to see Brian live with a friend (at £50 a ticket!!!), and that was the first time i heard any smile stuff (apart from the normal H&V, perhaps. I had it on a very poorly equipped best of, but can't recall loving it right off the bat). They did Our Prayer/H&V, and that was pretty much a life-changing thing. It was completely different to anything i'd ever heard. And they played other Brian stuff which i'd never heard before (the first time i heard Little Girl I Once Knew, Dance Dance dance, Love and Mercy, In My Room, Surfer Girl (!!!)There's probably more, but i can't find the setlist online). And then i saw that his latest record was called Smile,  so i bought it.

I played it almost every day for a month after i got it. i tended to like the 'sillier' bits (gee, H&V, the third movement), but then, i was 15. I remember, if you're looking for critic confirmation, that it got a 9/10 in NME, and a 4/5 in Q. In terms of wider appreciation, i'm not so sure. Me and my friend tried to get someone else into it, but they didn't bite (they were a proper electro fan though). No one else i've met since has heard of it...

I think you're right, Mr. Don, in saying that the loss of innocence is a major factor. Smile is, in it's very nature, innocent. It was conceived in a state of pure, uncynical mind (even the paranoia has a childish edge to it). It's playful. And that kind of playfulness has been replaced. Everyones more self-conscious now. No-one would write a song like 'vega-tables' today even if they were tripping. that's just Brian and the mindset of the time. And BB's disciples, while a little of it's there, haven't quite got that. That's what struck out for me on BWPS, over time. it's got heaps of individual soul in the lyrics and the sound. even next to the original smile tapes (which i prefer, on some days) it's a soulful album.

A thought - what do you reckon an official release of Smile sessions would do to BWPS? the originals would get even more exposure, wouldn't they?

As I recall, the reception of BWPS was tremendous, considering what it was to the non-Beach Boy geek public: an album by a former Beach Boy who apparently used to be crazy, etc. It got high praise from most magazines, as I recall. And really, even the message boards weren't so critical until a while after the fact. (Fake harpsichord, blah blah blah.) Considering it was mostly three-and-a-half decades old music released by a senior citizen who hadn't had a hit in a very long time, I'd say it was as welcomed by the public as it realistically could have been. The only alternative would have been hiring an 18-year-old blonde bombshell to sing it and have her dance--scantily clad, of course--in the videos. That might have sold better.

Thanks folks, gotta be off, sorry. Be back tomorrow. Have a good Saturday!

It still is the highest-rated album Metacritic has ever crunched the numbers for:

http://www.metacritic.com/music/

(Tied with Loretta Lynn and Zep, but still)

I hadn't heard any of Smile apart from H&V before 2004. I first heard the BWPS recording on the Nonesuch Web site and was stunned. The beauty of Our Prayer brought me to tears. I think that taken in a vacuum, it's an incredible work of music. Those who know the history are judging it more harshly because they're comparing it to what might have been--and they know too much. It was received very well by the critics-- extremely well. And as others have said, most of the Internet community liked or loved it. Then, of course, they started picking it apart. I'm glad it was released. I still think it was a huge breakthrough for Brian-- no, not a cure, but a big breakthrough.

If it is indeed a matter of an age gap for some people I think that's a real bummer as imho there's always more joy to be found in appreciating an original idea as opposed to being content with certain aspects of an artistic concept being utilized in a contemporary (and therefore admittedly very catchy) setting.

I remember before it came out, BWPS was like a child finally being born into the world. Everyone waiting, hoping, all kinds of stuff. Now before BWPS came out, I had not really heard anything from it minus Heroes and Villains and Vegetables. Hearing this record blew me away. Holding something that took 37 years to get to that moment. What a incredible feeling. Then it seemed like almost the next day everything was wrong with it. People I think they  took it apart maliciously in some cases. I understand some people do not consider it the real Smile or not like the band behind Brian etc. but to trash it in the ways that is has just bothers me. It makes me think back to the Beautiful Dreamer DVD and what it took to get to even accomplish that project. Yes some of it was probably staged but I believe it tells an accurate story of all the hard work and effort it took for them to get it to where it is. Darian Sahanaja should be praised for all of his efforts in helping Brian kick his demons and create this album  and here we are all these years later, basically kicking dirt in his face on how everything is wrong with it?? And yet quick to be praising Scott Bennett for TLOS? Hypocritical maybe? BWPS is what it is to each of their own. But to me, it is a fabulous record and I have still have fabulous memories getting the record and seeing it done live twice. For those that do diss it to this day, you can always play something else.

I agree with you =)

Some random thoughts
It was great seeing it live, and it's the best job that could have been done to it in 2004. I think it's very good, great even, and I find the production to be nicely retro. YET...the originals have the irreplaceable voices I love.  That very special blend..the real Beach Boys. So yes I play BWPS and enjoy it, but I never quite had the jaw dropping moments I had with the tapes the Beach Boys cut from 1966-71. I have said this before and will again, the only time Smile could have been 100 percent right is before Brian and Dennis lost their voices. I like Brian's band a lot but I am not emotionally attached to them like I am to the Beach Boys. I am very happy BWPS exists and at 32 I wasn't around for the original sessions myself,  but I grew to love the Beach Boys first not BWPS and that could very well change how I feel. Frankly it felt wrong that the Smile doc didn't use the Beach Boys tapes when going through the 66-67 era.

To be fair I  like the way music was recorded better in the fifties, sixties, and early seventies so other then Dennis' later stuff I would say 90 percent of my very favorite Beach Boys music comes from 1961-74. It's just a personal preference as far as what I play, but I am not deaf to something good that's newer. For modern records TLOS and BWPS are easily two of the very, very, best period.

Well said. IMO, one of the saddest things about Smile not being assembled and released at the time of its original composition is that it was "made for those times" to paraphrase PS. While it also has a timeless quality, early avant-garde pop music experimentalism was then reaching a point of exquisite ripeness, and Smile would have been a perfect complement to Sgt. Pepper and Magical Mystery
Tour, the yin to their yang (or vice versa). That period was so perfectly suited for it, the fresh
visions of envelope-pushing creativity reaching such a delicate peak, that if ever something seemed
(to me) like it didn't "happen for a reason" as theologists and philosophers say everything does, the collapse of the project was that thing. Some have made an interesting, opposite point, that the failure of the album to cohere and reach fruition suits the mythical, fragmentary, ethereal quality of the concept and music, and is perfectly appropriate and serendipitous. That is a compelling and legitimate
viewpoint, but overall, its release would have been one of those musical and cultural events
that would have rocked the foundations of popular culture and would have been the greater good, whereas the release of BWPS in the 21st century, while remarkable and even miraculous, obviously has a completely different impact. Still incredibly thankful to have it, and to have seen two of the live perfomances of it, which I will never forget (wish I could have seen many more). :(

Thanks for the link! I really enjoyed reading all the reviews.

I have only a few friends who have even heard of SMiLE.  One is a long time BB fan back when I had no interest whatsoever in the band.  I had to convince him to get BWPS.  He had heard the box set original versions and had compiled his own SMiLE mix back in 1993!  I hadn't even heard Pet Sounds at that point.  For long time fans, it took a leap of faith just to listen to a new recording.  One's expectations had to be tempered.  Looking at the song listing, a fan would have to drool with anticipation!  But, as miraculous as it was that it was coming out, would it even scratch the surface of what it could've been?

The cohesiveness of the finished project proved to be cathartic.  It opened our eyes and ears to the emotional turmoil Brian had leved with for 37 years. I used this to convince my fanatical friend to purchase the album and accept it for what it was.  Yes, it was a retelling, revisionist version of a long ago abandoned project.  No, it didn't have the angelic voices of the Beach Boys. But, it still contained much of the original music and ideas laid forth in the 60's and it still had a wonderful group of singers.  No, it wasn't groundbreaking like it would have been.  No, it didn't live up to the myth.  It was and is a fantastic release from an aging rocker and one almost nobody thought they'd ever hear.

BWPS simply doesn't fit the mould of today's musicscape.  Virtually nothing that outside the norm does.  It will age well and will garner new fans by word of mouth.  Most critical darling records do.  For me, it's not what I wanted it to be but I accept it for what it is.  It did have some surprises.  I'll continue to make fan mixes of the original material.  The beauty of SMiLE is that it will never be complete.  There'll undoubtedly be more surprises in the future, even if a box set doesn't materialize.  BWPS provides a template but as fans of unfinished projects, we can take that into our own directions.

Great call. I esp. like the 'outside the norm' bit. See: I find today's 'rock', or what passes for it, extremely conservative, conventional. For me it is a riddle that acts like Coldplay dominate the world, so to speak, because they're unbelievably bland to this listener. I am reminded of my student days, when friends got married very young and behaved very predictable. There were conventions... when I paid a visit, it was small talk, and the lady of the house always began to make a formal yawn at 10 PM, to make a signal. The music then was the Little River Band, or Toto. It was, in short, sheer protocol.
Mind: I do not criticize them for that. Perhaps they were a bit fearful for surprises, for the unknown. My endless peddling of the BBs and related music did not work out. Then, when I was older, I stopped preaching.
I really miss the days when grand projects were done, sank without a trace (um, having sold 3 copies), to be dug up again after one or two decades because they were so good. Perhaps it is my age, that I don't see the adventure in today's music. I'd rather play a Charles Mingus CD, or a Beethoven sonata, than listen to today's leaders of pop.

That is why they dominate. They are safe. Labels are looking for something that sounds like something else (that sold), period. If s/he happens to be attractive, well that helps, too. But outliers are unsafe, and thus expensive gambles.

And really, remember that most music fans are very casual fans. They want to hear something that sounds familiar, singable, instantly catchy. (There is nothing wrong with that, although I would say such a goal can be attained with a lot more creativity from the artists' perspective.) I work with a number of people--each of these examples being in their early 30s, married and suburb-dwelling, by the way...--who swear Nickelback is the best rock band these days (with the likes of U2, Coldplay and Rob Thomas close behind). For people in that camp, there is a familiarity and safety to that kind of music that doesn't turn them off and churn their stomachs the way it might to some sorts of people (who may frequent boards like this); instead, it turns them on to those bands. Long hair, edgy (no pun intended) guitars, it's still rockin', right? "I'm not old yet!"

That is exactly why I rarely find new music I love on major labels. It happens sometimes, but usually with artists who are established, such as Dylan. Indies who aren't paying much for development, but more often just taking finished product (done in home studios as often as not) and distributing it, tend to allow a lot more freedom and opportunity for success or failure with more limited interference. Not to say there isn't an overwhelming amount of sh*t on those labels, just that they let the sh*t happen. Which, disgustingly enough, is good.

Cold play are just doing what they can, like any other group.

Coldplay are just doing what they can, like any other group?

Thanks for the insight, Lance. Truly necessary. Somewhere along the lines of "That's your opinion." Or the slightly more diplomatic "There's no accounting for taste."

However, if you want to split hairs, only Coldplay knows for sure if they are doing what they can. All we know for sure is that they're doing what they are doing.

Much like Brian Wilson with BWPS. As a SMiLe fan for many years prior to the release of BWPS, I was shocked when it was released. Shocked and delighted. I don't think for a minute that most of the posters here who bitch about the use of Kurzweil harpsichord sounds would be able to tell the difference, had BW used the genuine article - McCartney used Spinet and Harpsichord and other obscure piano style instruments on Chaos and Creation in the Back Yard, and if they weren't shown in the publicity photos and studio footage, I would have assumed that they were sampled. That's how good sampling technology has gotten.

As a producer / musician, I own a pair of Moog synthesizers and a 1971 Fender Rhodes Piano 73, which I adore for their unique character. However, I accept that the simulations (plugins such as Arturia Minimoog and Elektrik Piano) have gotten to a point where they are just as useable as the original instruments, they are more flexible, and they don't require upkeep and tuning.

If I could snap my fingers and change reality I would rather BW had used real/acoustic Harpsichords, etc. as originally planned, but the use of synthetic harpsichords didn't hurt the album's sound for me one bit.

And now for a comment as perfunctory as the one I so rudely made an example of at the beginning of this long-winded and pompous post: The problems with BWPS are the long-festering expectations and intimate knowledge of the original sessions possessed by rabid Beach Boys/Brian Wilson fans. Combine this with years (in some cases decades) of fantasizing about the missing pieces, and you have yourself a recipe for major discontent, no matter what you do.

Many people expected one thing from BWPS and received another. Others didn't expect anything and enjoyed BWPS on its own merit.

Personally, I prefer some aspects of the original SMiLe tapes, and I prefer other aspects of BWPS. However, I say without a doubt that SMiLe was completed. I love to listen to SMiLe in its 2004 form. It is truly brilliant in its use of the original material and the additions added by Brian, VDP, and Darian.

The creator of the work (BWPS) decided that it was finished. Whether or not he was plied with Melinda's Steak Sandwiches or a meeting with his manager and publicist, he completed it with the help of an excellent band, one of the very best in rock and roll. He toured the album with a string and horn section.

In short, he did it.

And one last piece of food for thought: Landy tried to get Brian to finish SMiLe in the 1980s. Imagine how awful that would have sounded. Imagine SMiLe with BW88 production (although I love BW88, it would not be appropriate.) If Landy, who was drugging Brian and had him under his complete control, was unable to get Brian to face up to SMiLe all that time, what could be the reason?

Perhaps Brian wasn't ready yet. Perhaps the man actually had/has free will (in spite of evidence to the contrary, which I will concede.) And in 2004, he was ready, and he had a safety net with the best group he could have used*

b00ts

*Aside from perhaps the Beach Boys circa "Stars and Stripes" teamed with Joe Thomas - they really could have done some great work with SMiLe! Maybe as a 'Sexy, Sade-type thing,' as Thomas advised the group to play Caroline No during Brian's Imagination tour. Seriously, people, we've become spoiled in the past decade. Now, I hope BW (or his wife and publicist) continues to follow his muse - Pleasure Island!

Sure, my opinion.Perhaps not a  'truly necessary opinion'(as opposed to whose, I wonder? Are some opinions more necessary than others?). But while we're giving opinions, why the heck not? I dont' even like Coldplay , but neither am I saying that my taste  defines 'good music.' It's that kind of opinion I find destructive and unnecessary. To each their own, I guess...

 I doubt if there are many artists that  sit down and say: OK, now I'm going to write something really bland-but-catchy that the idiotic public likes. I just don't buy THAT opinion. But hey, what do I know? I'm not trying to start any argument, and I apologize if my comment came off that way.

To bOOts -

yeah. I utterly dread the idea of SMiLE having been released around 1988... imagine: the title could have been: 'Dr. Eugene Landy and Alexandra Morgan Present Brian Wilson's SMiLE!!!'.

The back cover would feature a photo with the three 'artists'. Production credits: 'Produced by Eugene Landy, Jeff Lynne, and Brian Wilson'.

The original songs would be there, sure. But bashed into unrecognizability. Washed in layer upon layer of bland synthesizer work. No real drummer in sight. Syndrums. No sections, no bridges. All songs would have been, um, 'danceable', to attract younger listeners too.

Retitling:

'Do You Like Worms' --> 'The Inner Me I Used To Be'
'Ms. O'Leary's Cow' --> 'Therapy Was Good For Me'
'Plymouth Rock' --> 'The Doctor Rocks!'
'In Blue Hawaii' --> 'Rebirth In Hawaii'

and so on.

So folks, remember: it could have been worse.

I'll go one better and say it could not have been better, short of just releasing the original tapes...which may have been impossible for Brian psychologically speaking and possibly legally speaking. Would the BBs have gone for it?  As it happened, Brian had the best possible band he could have had. Darian, for one, could not be a bigger fan of the original Smile tapes, and he and the others tried really, really hard to replicate that, knowing full well they couldn't pretend to be the BBs. So it's Smile, 2004 version, but it's as faithful to what is known of Brian's original as possible.

/thread   ;D

Not too much good music coming out for mass consumption these days.  I do think there is a lot of good music that goes unnoticed by the mainstream and I listen for it on certain public radio stations that play an eccletic mix of new and old that one seldom hears on the commercial radio (translate that to clearchannel inc) .

My teen children have great taste in music and have kept me in touch with a lotof the good stuff. 

I think there is newer  music that has been around for a few years that is just now being discovered or may be discovered and appreciated in years to come.  My favorite "new" music at present is Neko Case...although she is not exactly a newcomer.  And there seems to be a connection with the old school in her music .

World Cafe on NPR is good for new sounds.  If you live where you can get the Athens Ohio based public radio music shows you should check out Below the Salt, Audio Synchrocies, and several other alt music shows broadcast from there. 

Sorry about the tangent.

check out Fleet Foxes.. they are the best new band I have heard in quite a while

IMHO ... the second movement of BWPS of W/SFC/CIFOTM/SU stands as the best BB/BW recorded moment since .. well ... 1967!

Agreed!!

While you're at it, check out the fully great Minnesota Public Radio station "The Current," which is entirely music, largely of the modern, indie varieties (although with a lot of local music and some classics, hits, rarities, and a few current major label things added in). It streams online, too. I kid you not, the best radio station I've ever heard, bar none--in large part because you get everything from brilliance to sh*t, no apologies. DJs program their own playlists. They take real requests. They are humans, not computers being programmed by Disney/AOL/Warner/Whatever. Been a godsend in Mpls.

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/radio/services/the_current/

Don - you made me laugh out loud.

Glad to see so much love for BWPS here. It is true that Brian was announced to be working on completing SMiLe at least once in the late 70s/early 80s and once in the late 1980s? Or am I mistaken?

If so, was there any abortive work on another SMiLe in the 70s or 80s?

Regardless, SMiLe 2004 is one of the biggest success stories in Brian's career, and that of the Beach Boys as a whole. I agree that there is no way it could have been better. When it was released, I was shocked at how closely they matched the original.

b00ts

Well, it was at least discussed (and I believe contractually required in order for the band to fully collect on its Warners contract) in the early 70s. How serious anyone was about getting any work done on it, I don't know.

Wasn't that a copyright issue that couldn't really be helped? They didn't use any original tapes, I believe.

I second that! Grabs me by the throat every time. 'Easy My Child...', it's so heartwarming, lots of consolation there. Superb.

I'd say that issue is pretty obvious: it wasn't a "documentary," but a promotional video. Obviously, an objective documentarian would have gone out of his way to include clips of the original, as well as to get more of the "other side's" views. But this was a Leaf/Wilson team creation intended to promote and accompany the album. Would they really want to pay BRI (and Mike Love)? The whole point of that film is "f*** Mike Love, I did it!" The last thing they would have done would be play original music that many people consider superior to the eventually released product.

I seem to remember reading(on the Desper thread...or on surfermoon.com desper stuff) Desper saying that he and Carl worked for some time on the SMiLE stuff, but ultimately abandoned it because they just had no idea how all the parts were supposed to fit together.

It's interesting that you say this. I have watched documentaries about Paul McCartney (produced by his company, MPL) that include sections about his time with the Beatles. Of course, they play McCartney's renditions of Beatles songs (usually taken from one of his live albums) in the background.

As for your comment about an objective documentarian to go out of his way to obtain the rights to use the original masters - well, in the case of the Beatles, this objective documentarian would be laughed at and denied, just as every film-maker who has asked for permission to use a Beatles song in their movie has been denied, with very, very few exceptions.

In the case of the Beach Boys, it is probably easier to gain access to the masters for a commercial documentary - but the masters of SMiLe? I doubt an independent documentarian would be given access to anything other than what has been released.

As for Lead/BRIMEL, Why would they bother paying the extra money to use the original SMiLe masters in the documentary? They had just completed a brand-new version of the work, so it would be sort of counterintuitive.

I would love to know if BWPS included any out-takes... it seems like the answer is "no," they just recorded the parts they knew they were going to use... but it would be nifty to hear a new BW version of "He Gives Speeches," would it not?

If you consider SMiLE finished with BWPS, which, after reading your above post, you do, then Beach Boys-recorded SMiLE era songs could've been used, because many of those RELEASED SMiLE era songs are almost identical (arrangement-wise) to the BWPS re-recorded versions. The following SMiLE songs were released years before BWPS:

Our Prayer
Heroes And Villains
Do You Dig Worms
Cabinessence
Wonderful
Surf's Up
Vegetables
Wind Chimes
I Love To Say Dada
Good Vibrations

Why wouldn't Brian be able to gain access to released Beach Boys' songs? How much "extra" money would've it cost to use those above songs? Was money the real factor in the decision NOT to use the original recordings?

I'm fairly certain it was a rights issue restricting the use of the original SMiLE sessions in BEAUTIFUL DREAMER. As a substitute, instrumental versions of the re-recorded songs where used (minus the vocals, these sound nearly identical to the original backing tracks so I thought that was a good choice). I'm also pretty certain that Leaf asked Mike (and maybe Al) to participate in the documentary, but was turned down.

I'm not trying to claim that BEAUTIFUL DREAMER is as evenhanded as it should be, but there appears to be specific circumstances that caused the film to be presented the way it was. I don't see it as being strictly a whitewash promo for BWPS. That footage of Brian in the depths of depression during rehearsal attempts is not a "positive spin" at all, but it's a striking moment in the film.

Was it a rights issue, Roger? I ask, not to be a wise guy, but because I don't know. Those SMiLE songs that I listed above were commercially released songs on albums like Smiley Smile, 20/20, and the boxed set. They have been out in the public for 35-40 years. Could Leaf have been blocked from using them, from broadcasting them, even if he pays the mandatory fees?

Luther got this one right. Playing the original tracks in BD would have shown a very unflattering spotlight on the less-than-magical re-records.

I disagree. I absolutely think the footage of a troubled Brian was a positive spin that helped push the narrative of the feature.

There were no doubt copyrights issues to getting the original tapes ... as in, BW would have had to pay for them. And obviously didn't want to. Adding to that, there are the questions as to quality of new v source material, which are absolutely speculative on my part. But come on, if someone with such access to Beach Boys material--he is BRIAN FUCKING WILSON--wanted to finance a truly accurate, complete documentary, it could have been done.

Oh, and if you ask me, I get every one right.  ;)

You did ask me, right?

To those who posit that putting the original SMiLe tapes next to those of BWPS would make the latter pale in comparison, I strongly disagree. Although I love the original SMiLe tapes and BWPS and recognize the differences between the two, it would be verging on perfunctory for Brian et. al. to produce a new documentary focusing on the making of SMiLe in 2004, all the while playing original SMiLe session tapes in the background.

And if they did use the original SMiLe session tapes, I can hear the bitching on the message boards: "Why couldn't Brian just use the new sessions? He's trying to tell new fans that if they buy SMiLe, they'll be hearing the '60s sessions!" Come on guys, admit it, at least some people would have raised that 'point.' You know it!

I will say that as an original SMiLe fan from way before BWPS was a twinkle in Melinda's eye (ha-ha!) I was slightly put off at first whilst watching Beautiful Dreamer due to the fact that the old tapes were missing. However, it underscored how great a job they did on the 2004 SMiLe, when I heard the backing tracks playing in the background.

As far as the reasoning that the BWPS backing tracks would have looked like sh*t next to the old ones... come on guys... just because you prefer aspects of the old ones (and look, I also prefer some aspects of the 60's sessions) doesn't mean that the backing tracks from BWPS sound that much different. I have a pair of Mike Love-certified Dog Ears ™ and I can certainly tell the difference.. but it's not as pronounced as, say, if BWPS had been recorded during the Landy or Joe Thomas eras.

Luther, there is a difference between skepticism and cynicism... using Brian's meltdown as part of the narrative could be seen as exploitative, I suppose, but at least they didn't try to make it seem like it was a hop, skip, and a jump for Brian to complete SMiLe in 2004. To do that would have been truly cynical on the part of Brian's people. They showed some very, very unflattering scenes with Brian in the Beautiful Dreamer documentary, and it makes the story hit home that much more.

Finally... think about the options available to Brian. He could have completed SMiLe (or had the Beach Boys or a group of surrogates finish it) at any time in the intervening 40 years between the original sessions and the BWPS sessions. He could have left it up to others, with a situation similar to the finished recording of "Surf's Up" in the early 70's ensuing. Instead, he re-recorded it from the ground up... those of us who are musicians / recording engineers can perhaps better appreciate the enormity of this task. When I first heard that Brian was going to re-record the whole thing from the ground up, I thought it would be a disaster. Instead, it will never cease to amaze me that Brian Wilson finished SMiLe in the most audacious and potentially the most mentally harrowing way possible, whilst turning out an incredible product.

The path of least resistance would have been putting out a CD-Rom as Don Was suggested in the mid-90s, or putting out a SMiLe sessions boxed set. Instead, the composers returned to the work and finished it. Pretty ace.

Now, to get back to the skeptic side of BW fandom - I have heard rumblings on this here board that certain members of BW's entourage dislike BWPS in its studio form, and only intended it to be a live performance. I understand that this was the case at first (it was not going to be a studio album at first) but I didn't realize that some members of the group were dissatisfied with it.. would anyone care to elucidate, or am I incorrect?

b00ts

P.S. It is not as easy for Brian to get use of the Beach Boys' masters as others are making it out to be - what you guys are thinking of, is Brian's right to cover a song as long as he pays mechanical royalties, and the song has been released/published by its original author (who has first right of refusal, I believe, before others can cover his song freely.) Master tapes are a different story, and in this case, many of them are owned by Capitol or BRI (not sure which) - it is much harder to get access to Master tapes, and as I outlined above, to do so for Beautiful Dreamer would be somewhat perfunctory...

@bOOts -

that is some post you wrote there! I agree. I think it would have been a bad move to include the original recordings in any way in the 2004 project. One aspect of the whole enterprise for Brian must have been, IMHO, to recreate the past by 'ignoring' the factual past, with all its enormous problems. What he did instead was take the original concept and frame it anew, like as if it were a beautiful painting, together with Van Dyke Parks and the new band. He has the ear of the true artist, and I dare place a bet that the original material would have made him feel pretty uneasy. Perhaps he also felt joy in re-claiming SMiLE as a work of his own, because there was quite some resistance from other band members way back then.

I didn't call it exploitative. Nothing you said here contradicts me at all.

Leaf/Brian/Melinda had complete freedom to use any of the released Smile material in Beautiful Dreamer, and as was stated here there's plenty of that. No need for master tapes unless they want remixes or unreleased snippets. Financial consideration? Sync rights would have to be paid out for the use of said released material in film use, and yes that is expensive...but that money goes half to publisher and half to composer, so Brian would essentially be paying close to half the money to himself. The decision to not use orig. Smile material in that film was purely aesthetic, or political... depending on your view. The new Smile tracks do sound great, quite an accomplishment that Darian, errr Brian, pulled off there. Unless you compare them to the originals and then their lack of organic origins begins to give them that knock-off (but with digital shortcuts) kind of sheen. To me sheen is a bad thing if it is noticeable, and the only way its really noticeable here is if you have the orig. to compare it to. which we do. That said, i think this was a political move...no Beach Boys versions...simply because those were Beach Boys versions and that's a negative i guess if you are trying to create the illusion that Brian didn't need those guys, and that in fact they held him back. That's mostly fiction, but that's the fiction that Beautiful Dreamer is based on...and that Brian's "solo" career, at least in part, depends on as well. Its an entertaining film, but its a very one-sided perspective on a subject that has at least several other perspectives that are just as viable.

Damn it, I'll have to figure out some way to contradict you then... give me a little while to figure something out, OK?

@Jon and the Don -

Both of you stated the truth much more succinctly than I could (if you look at the length of my posts up-thread, you'll see what I mean.) As much as I have enjoyed Beautiful Dreamer, it clearly comes at Brian's story from a certain angle, and as the Lovester says, much of it is certainly revisionist history.

However, Jon, I'll have to disagree re: the relative quality of BWPS versus the original tapes. In some cases, there is a pronounced difference, but in many cases, the BWPS versions sound (to my cloth ears) like much clearer versions of the originals. This has consistently blown my mind ever since BWPS came out.

Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who abhors the stereotypical "Pro-Tools" sound, especially the use of autotune, both of which were heavily used on BWPS.

But, to play devil's advocate...

If BWPS had been recorded direct to tape, and no sampled harpsichords, et. al. had appeared on the album, I wonder how much different it would have sounded?

Also, how do people here feel about Mark Linnet's work? (Personally, I think he is an excellent engineer/etc.)

It would be fun to do a double-blind randomized test of some of the SMiLe and BWPS material.

b00ts

Sorry but they created no sense of history by not playing the 1966-67 tapes. It didn't mean as much as a movie and it didn't feel right when they covered the sixities. Leaf just can't make a film or a book without being reactionary..witness his Lennon film. He doesn't offer balance. THat said BWPS is better then I imagined big time, but I am someone who puts a much bigger priorty in listening to vintage Brian and vintage Beach Boys. TLOS was really good too, but it's not something I will play as often as Sunflower, Wild Honey, Today, All Summer Long, Pet Sounds, or even Spring. Hey I am glad Brian (to whatever extent he's involved) is taking part in some good music, but I hate the hype that has been going on since oh 1976. Beautiful Dreamer is just not a truthful film. I emjoy watching the concert part because that's music, but do you really think Brian was all of a sudden "cured"?

Hey MBE -

I agree 100% about Leaf - he has an agenda in mind. Since you and I (and other hardcore BB fanatics) are aware of that agenda, it can make it easier to sift through the BS in a documentary like "Beautiful Dreamer," and find the nuggets of goodness within.

The first time that my lady and I watched "Beautiful Dreamer," I noticed the lack of old SMiLe material, and I had to explain to my girlfriend that a lot of the back-story to the original SMiLe was being interpreted in a very pro-Brian way; however, what less could one expect of an 'official' product? Was Endless Harmony biased?  An American Family?

I think the idea behind the publicity that has been going on in varying degrees since the late 1970s is that although Brian will never be cured, each new work of his is trotted out to the public in the same "Brian's Back" sort of publicity circus.

For SMiLe, I didn't mind it so much, as I can see through David Leaf's Agenda and genuinely enjoy watching the making of BWPS. Seeing the Darian-Cam footage of Brian and VDP getting to work on BWPS  (and Darian meeting VDP for the first time ever)  was excellent. Overall, I am glad the documentary exists, and while it is self/Leaf-serving, it also provides interesting context from Brian's camp's point of view. It is also more honest about Brian's problems making BWPS than I expected from an official product.

Perhaps this is because of the constant portrayal of Brian as a victim for whom we should feel pity. The BluBoard attitude, I call it. And this is what I disagree with vehemently; in many cases, it is easy to notice Brian phoning in and bullshitting an interview because it's the same old sh*t being asked of him. Questions about his father beating him, his nervous breakdowns, and questions designed to reassure the viewer/reader that Brian is 'on the road to recovery...' The same interview over and over again for 40 years. Usually, when they ask him about music, he is more forthcoming.

It's a shame that his own camp exploits his mental illness for record sales and prestige, but that's the way people in the market think. They lap it up. Prurient gossip becomes more and more prevalent in American media every second. Brian's people were in on this racket way back in the 1970s.

The documentary for TLOS bothered me. I don't like retreading old ground or hearing about how great Brian feels. I want to see them making the album, pretending to make the album, and giving valuable information about the album. I want to know about the music.

I'm also bloody sick of seeing Sean Lennon, Arctic Monkeys, Chumbawumba or whatever dogshite band is popular nowadays singing Brian's praises.  Billy Bob Thornton? Who the f*** cares?  It's filler and it perturbs me greatly. Just like the Beach Boys Bi-yearly Greatest hits compilations, the documentary is compromised in an attempt to satisfy every demographic. Keep the old fans, draw in new ones. "Billy Bob Thornton is my musical hero! I must go out and buy all of Brian's albums."

In the case of SMiLe, his mental illness figured into the making of that record greatly. For TLOS, it's "OK, back to square one, now Brian is healed for real, wink wink, until the 'Pleasure Island' documentary in 2011..."

b00ts

Well I see your point as far as what you can get out of the doc. I saw little bits that made me smile (pardon the pun) because Brian has a charm about him so watching is never dull. It can be painful though, and I guess I was surprised that they showed how serious Brian's panic attacks are. That said I wonder how he feels having that featured. Does he really want to be seen that way? I do like his band as people and how they interact with him and respect him. I just didn't like some of the other things I was seeing. Or that was implied.

Highlight of my day so far. Perhaps that means I ought to do more with my day or perhaps it means that was really funny. I'm fine with it regardless.

Good post. The Lennon doc bugged me because it was three hours or so of nothing but Lennon's praises. Also, not ONE mention of Macca the whole time. Beautiful Dreamer is a bit phony, I agree; but I must say that performing and recording SMiLE for good, as far as I'm concerned and I'm not in the know, did have a real significant effect on Brian's mental health. No he was not "cured" at all but I think it did much more good than harm.

You know I think it was good because if nothing else people aren't saying 'when are you gonna do something with Smile?' It's hard to guess more then that because I don't know him on a social level. I think his problems run far deeper then his career. Music has probably kept him going through the years, but his illness is something that was happening probably before the Beach Boys. I don't mean to sound down beat or make him out as a figure of pity, but I guess I would rather hear something more realistic out of his camp. You can see it in his eyes that this is a man who is troubled on some level, and you know what that's ok. All the Brian is better then ever stuff is I guess what I object to.

I am really enjoying the discussion as it is developing, thanks to all for the fine efforts.

bOOts has a big point. For, say, 33 years running, there is this 'Brain Is Back' theatrical piece going on. Brian is a shy, vulnerable man, with an awesome talent. The ideal person to take care of, and 'restore back to his former glories', as it were. And lots of people chimed in to be his healer.

I don't really know where the line between good intentions and exploitation has to be drawn. The person that most crossed that line is no doubt dr. Landy. Perhaps he lost sight of reality completely, and thought he could become a celebrated pop hero though his medium Brian Wilson. Anyway, he went to illegal lenghts to attain that status. About David Leaf, I do not know. He has commercial interests, of course. He wrote the first book touching the truth that lies behind the whole Beach Boys story as we knew it way back then. He's some kind of progenitor to Steven Gaines and Peter Ames Carlin. I am sure he has a Brian Wilson obsession (but all of us do). Up to now, I see no reason to suspect him of an improper hidden agenda.

Could be that Landy saved Brian's life. No, make that: I am sure he did. But what he also did was, apart from causing neurochemical damage, making Brian dependent of him and his crew, in a way that I never heard of before. For almost 10 years, I think. That is a very long time, and surely enough to indoctrinate a person with the idea that he cannot properly take care of himself. The Surf Nazis, the bleepers, the 24/7 scheme, Landy worming his way into Brian's art... he got reduced to the child he once was, exploited by his father.

Indoctrination is a bad thing. It can scar you for life. I am currently thinking about two column writers, who write for the two best newspapers I know. One of them was raised in totalitarian Rumania (under Ceaucescu), the other in totalitarian Iran. They are now in a free country, but write in a strange way. They can only think in black and white, nothing in between. Their thinking and feeling is still totalitarian, disguised nowadays. So their writing leads to strange results, and often is self-contradictory.

Sorry for meandering. But I think Landy harmed Brian in more than just the chemical way. Perhaps Brian became lifelong bait for each and every person who wanted something from him. And perhaps that is just why he never could be the true leader in a studio ever again.

Just some thoughts.

That Landy saved Brian's life in 1982/3 is beyond arguement... as is the fact that in 1991 Brian was within five years of being, at best a drooling vegetable, more likely dead, due entirely to the meds Landy was pumping him full of.

I met Landy a few times, and each time I found his smugness nauseating. Unlike the sainted Diane Sawyer, however, I had to play his games...

And the saga continues: seems inevitable that everyone who tries (or is engaged) to 'help' Brian winds up exploiting him in some way. Of course, Brian's not helping matters with his passive manipulation of his envoronment. Might be crazy, but he ain't stupid.  8)

i might be alone in this, but i don't think the statement 'my wife and managers thought it was a good idea' isn't as sinister as some make it out. I guess the managers side of the discussion was to tell them it was possible. And if anyone should encourage brian, it should be his wife or close friends like leaf (However bad a journalist/filmmaker, he's on Brians side). who else would do it? His therapist? imo, Brian would never have tackled Smile again without some nudging, and i don't think Melindas role in it was related to the music - composing the new bits, choosing running order, 'production' credits, etc - just helping brian get through it, so i think that's alright - they left brian, vdp and darian for the music. Of course, it's how i see these things, and someone else might see more sinister things. There's a definite line when it comes to nudging someone and forcing them. I'm not sure where it lies with BWPS. In the long run, 'completing' it is probably better for his mental health.

I see more harm/manipulation in the continual stream of touring, personally. Now that's one thing we know for sure freaks him out. It puts strain on his voice, leaves less time for writing, puts him in a whole lot of situations he hates, and keeps him away from his kids.

A few ill-ordered thoughts....

Oh, and Diane Sawyer kicked ass on that ABC thing. I saw it on youtube and the whole thing was as scary as hell.

Not seen it for a while so might be misremembering part of another TV interview... but does anyone else think that the mysterious, anonymous alleged "former Brother Records employee" looks and sounds awfully familiar (even in silloutte) ?

Well, actually I like your words a lot. I'd say that Brian needs some prodding, no doubt. Depressed people do. Exercise (by sports, or by touring) decreases the symptoms of depressive disorder (scientific fact). And: by his nature, Brian is modest. He'd never say: 'hey, chum, it was I and I alone who got this totally brilliant fooking good idea to finish SMiLE and throw it into this world, this godforsaken planet needs my masterpiede NOW!!'

Part of his personality must be slightly deformed, by the way, by these two questions, leveled at him 10,000 times per year over 40 years:

'Brian, will you ever make another Pet Sounds?'

'Brian, when will you finish SMiLE?'

No one can come out of this intact... :angel:

Melinda

 ;D

You're the best! You see what I mean, as well... the inclusion of people totally unrelated to the history of the BB's/BW is often perfunctory and sometimes renders these documentaries dated.

I think the "my wife and managers pushed me to do it" response is fairly innocuous. Brian often lacks tact. As for his touring, someone here stated a while back that Brian's people don't make money off of his tours. Especially with the strings and horns, I can see how this makes sense... or since they are from Sweden, does Brian not have to pay US union wages??

Anyway, arriving slowly to my flimsy point - while I am sure touring is not pleasant for Brian 100% of the time, it does seem to be good for him, giving him much-needed structure and exercise. The idea that he is being trotted out like a circus bear is horrifying - and if he is not making a profit from touring, why would be continue doing it year after year?

As others have mentioned, this is a very cool thread. Even though I am sort of getting off topic with the above question.

I'd guess the union rules have to do with the nation in which they are playing. That would be analogous to playing in different states in America, at least, where certain among them have stricter rules than others. If they were going by the home-country of the musicians, though, I can't imagine it would be cheaper to employ Swedish musicians than Americans, considering their more socialist leanings.

Anyway, it can't be cheap when he trots out the big group.

I cant read. stupid.

The response is innocuous. The truth behind the response is not innocuous.

What? 'grrr, finish Smile and i'll give you a milkshake?' Please. Even Landy couldn't get Smile out.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

it didn't sell millions of copies, and as Luther et al were saying up there, touring a 12 piece band and orchestra round the world for a year doesn't come cheap. there are more profitable ways to fleece Brian, if that were the case.

Any artist who puts out an album or tours is trying to make money.

I certainly don't think BWPS was put out solely for money. The guy doesn't need it anymore, and it's not like Smile sold millions of copies - I don't think anyone expected that.

Regardless, finishing it DID seem to have a positive effect on Brian, which I think is a very good thing.

It was a combinations of things.

Melinda: "Brian, I talked with David Leaf, Mr. Manager, and Mr. Accountant. They told me that we can sell so many albums, it will give you something "new" to tour, David can develop a DVD out of it, we can sell a lot of T-shirts, programs, merchandise, we'll get a lot of free publicity because of the "history", it might lead to a new recording contract with a major label, and you don't have any new material to record anyway. Oh, and it might be a cathartic experience for you. Let me call Darian and see what he can do."

That's my opinion. You don't agree. Fine. :)

Of Brian's major headlining US tours, only the 1999 shows made money (just, and that was largely due to the merchandising - obviously, the tour opening for Paul Simon is an exception): the 2000 Pet Sounds tour lost something in the region of $500,000. Brian hasn't done an extended US tour since summer 2005. The overseas tours are a different proposition, as promoters take the financial burden, but even so, of late Brian has been regarded as a poor risk, hence the festival jaunts of 2007 and this year, and the 3-gig mini UK tour of 2008.

Here's something to ponder - had the Wilsons chosen to fund the sessions for TLOS themselves, the album would have caught the post-premier momentum and been in the stores a good nine months earlier than it was... but for whatever reason, they didn't. And some folk were very unhappy about that.

1. ANY artist? Dylan, McCartney, Paul Simon, Ray Davies, Clapton? Do you think any of them are thinking much about the money these days?

2. They (Brian's team) could profit in other ways than album sales; see my above post.

3. In this thread, I have read several posters state that BWPS had a positive effect on Brian. Can somebody list some? I see a Brian who has aged since BWPS (yes, I know he's older); he hasn't looked well in some of the recent appearances; he appears to be slurring again in interviews and doesn't appear as focused. I was listening to BW88 and Imagination lately. When taking the bulk of the tunes off both of those albums and comparing them to WIRWFC and TLOS, I don't see much difference in quality or performance (I think his vocal on "Goin' Home" is one of his worst since 15 Big Ones). He has employed better producers and collaborators; I'll give him credit for that. But what am I supposed to see in Brian that BWPS made better?

Very late edit: Add Lou Reed to that list of artists.

I point you to the The Beatles Rock Band, coming out in september. A fine highpoint in the Fab Fours artistic career, totally not done for $$$.
Of course they think about money. everyone does, regardless of how much they have.

And AGD just said they didn't profit in anyway from touring, so i don't have to talk about that. They lost half a million dollars! How much more proof do you need?

And no-one said we expected Brian to suddenly snap back to his old self.  And he's not getting younger, and he hates interviews, and life on the road sucks for him. But that's different stuff. i think BWPS helped him psychologically. It's closure for a source of deep pain for him. That's not Leaf-esque blather, it's common sense. It's not going to reverse 30 years of all kinds of drug abuse and the mental effects thereof. But it's something, right?


Of course. All's cool :)

Wow you summed it up perfect with one line!

Hey SJS -

First off, I must say that when I picked up my vinyl copy of TLOS (I had heard the live and demo versions prior to the retail release) I was shocked at how great Brian's vocals on Goin' Home were - with a rough edge to them, like he had discovered a new way to use his aging voice. Very cool stuff. Perhaps what sounds "rockin and rollin" to me, sounds "mid-70s BW not giving a sh*t" to you. Fair enough, friend!

When it comes to the thing about Brian's statement being innocuous, but the truth behind such a statement not being innocuous - this is what piques my interest.

I understand the basic idea behind what you're talking about, that Brian could be (or in your opinion, potentially is? correct me if I am wrong) manipulated by those around him, just as happened in the 1970s-1980s... I am interested in hearing more rationale for this. Not that I totally disagree with the opinion, mind you. I'm sure there is a degree of manipulation going on.

What I am equally sure of, is that Brian is more in control (or at least is pleasantly compromising/acquiescing) than many of us give him credit for. The elephant in the room is the fact that BDW simply has not made a lot of money off of his solo career. Recording SMiLe, therefore, seems to have been a therapeutic exercise for him first and foremost, or perhaps his camp was expecting it to go triple-platinum in the first week? I doubt it.

Of course, the truth lies in the shades of gray, so that's what I am looking for. I think that all of us can potentially admit that no matter what Brian Wilson did, no matter how he did it, we would still be picking it apart and overanalyzing it; some of us would say he was being used, even if he wasn't; some of us (bl00board mentality) would say that Brian is in total control, which is similarly ludicrous, at least it seems like it.

As I stated above, it is important to remember that Brian has years and years of psychological manipulation under his belt. I'm sure he isn't going along with this touring/recording scheme unless he wants to on some level...

hypehat, let me ask you (and any others) a question about the "healing" of Brian done by BWPS. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, a cynic, or just plain negative, but do you really, REALLY, believe that BWPS had a significant effect - positive or otherwise - on Brian Wilson?

In an above post, MBE wrote of Brian, "I think his problems run far deeper than his career." I agree very much with that assessment. I'm stating the obvious here, but the Brian Wilson today is different from the Brian Wilson of 1969, 1979, 1989, and maybe even 1999. He is many years, many drugs, many deaths, and many days of just trying to have some peace of mind - away -  to "care" like he used to. To paraphrase Bob Dylan, "He used to care, but things have changed." Do you see any of that? Do you think that the emotional pain caused by SMiLE (and some actually think it wasn't that great, that he moved on) continued to haunt Brian, even after all of the other trauma in his life? Or, do you think that took a back seat to basic survival? At that point in his life (2004), with his marriage and kids and extended family and his (emotional and physical) health, was SMiLE something that continued to pain Brian, something that needed healing?

I looked for these positives, this healing, in BWPS. I saw an artist who wasn't interested or curious enough to attend the recording of the tracks. I saw a person who had nothing insightful to say in interviews. I saw it more as a job for Brian than an artistic journey. Yeah, there are times in the Beautiful Dreamer documentary, specifically the concert portion, where Brian appears to be really "into the music". But, quite frankly, the most "moved" Brian appears to be is when he kisses Paul McCartney's hand.

What did Brian take from the BWPS experience? Again, you tell me. You are the one(s) who are mentioning the positive experiences. I don't know where he's at psychologically, which is most important. I've seen some recent stuff, interviews and performances, that make me uncomfortable. What we do know is that Brian followed BWPS with a Christmas album. While "Christmasey" and the title track are nice songs, they aren't anything special. IMO, the best song on the album is "Joy To The World, from the Joe Thomas sessions, pre-BWPS.

And then there's TLOS. As I stated in an above post, IMO, there is little difference quality-wise in the bulk 5-6 songs from BW88 to Imagination to TLOS. Yes, TLOS is overall a stronger album, maybe, but that's because Scott Bennett is a better songwriter and producer than Eugene Landy and Joe Thomas. But, Brian's best vocals are still from Imagination!

OK, I'll correct you! ;D

That's not really what I'm saying. C'mon, bOOts, haven't you been reading my posts on BWPS? I've been beating this dead horse for five years now! :p

Instead of being lengthy and boring like I usually am, I'll be brief, 'cause I wanna watch the basketball game! No, I don't think Brian was manipulated with BWPS. I think Brian has problems putting his heart and soul into his art for several reasons - see my above post - and it comes off as Brian not giving a sh*t. Or, maybe he really doesn't give a sh*t. I think Melinda & Team laid out a picture of what the SMiLE material could do for Brian - mostly financially motivated and solo career saving - and Brian simply said, "Yeah, sounds good."

Thus, those magically composed and beautifully arranged SMiLE songs were "used" for a purpose, a financial purpose, which was not originally intended by Brian, when he did put his heart and soul (and brain) into his music), when he was creating music for the sake of art.

Emotionally & psychologically, yes. Unfortunately, I think much of what we are seeing now is the result of age catching up to Brian (keeping in mind that the years of self-abuse and those f*cking meds Landy had him on may have aged him quicker than he would have normally), and nothing sort of the hand of God could change that.

Makes sense. Brian is almost 67 now. And: people age in all kinds of different ways. Perhaps we should act discretely on this matter?

Here's what I think.  I think that yes, BWPS did have a positive effect on Brian. It wasn't an overnight miracle... it was a slow realization that this music was okay to embrace, because the public was embracing it. Brian puts a lot of stock in what the public thinks. It was his bread and butter for years and probably contributes a lot to his sense of self-worth. In fact, I think Brian's initial success happened when he was so young that the creation of music is a key element of his adult identity, and he needs it to some degree--but he needs to be pushed to create. I do think the failure of Smile in the 60s was an albatross for him. Do I think it caused his mental illness? No, of course not. But it might have exacerbated its symptoms. Therefore, BWPS would not "cure" his mental illness. It might be therapeutic, though.

What's the evidence? I think TLOS is the evidence. No, I don't think Scott is mostly responsible for TLOS, simply because Scott's other music is pleasant, but nothing beyond that, in my opinion. Brian, on the other hand, is still capable of moments of magic, and you can hear that in TLOS. Even Scott pointed out Brian's gift for coming up with "money chords." But it's hard to believe Brian would have had it in him to complete TLOS in, say, 2000. He's not as ambitious as he was in the 60s, due to mental illness, the effects of the drugs, and the fact that he's a lot older. But he's gotten some ambition back. I think he was genuinely excited about TLOS. And I think that feeling of "Yes, I love this music. Yes, this is going to be great. Yes, I can't wait for the public to hear this" showed up again, and I think it comes down to confidence, which trickled back in after BWPS. Yes, a project can be finished. Yes, I can do this because I have people to help me, and that's okay.

Sheriff, most of what you're pointing out - interviews, voice, cba-approach to recording - isn't really related to completing Smile. Completing that won't stop interviewers asking about Pet Sounds, or the obvious detrimental effects of his drug abuse on his voice and attention span, (and age not making that any better) and that's what we see. I think that completing Smile to such acclaim must have a positive effect on his mind.  How could it not?
So basically, i'm saying Smile helps his mind, but the day-to-day professional life gets the better of him sometimes. We see the negative effects of that more than the positive effect of completing that (the recent wave of songwriting, with TLOS and it's bonus tracks, is much better than Imagination imo and the two could well be related)

Sampled Harpsichords, anyone?  :-D