The Smiley Smile Message Board

Take That Lucky Old Sun material, a bag of doritos, a massive pile of hash, Brian Wilson, and lock it all in a studio with Rick Rubin. I guarantee you will like the results. Just listen to the background vocals by Brian Wilson on Neil's "Delirious Love". He sounds much more impassioned than he does on anything on Gettin' In Over My Head.

Of course I'm joking about the hash, but I still think it's a good idea.

 For 65 years old and considering most of his contemporaries, I didn't realise he was in a slump!

I've been bringing Rubin's name up frequently on a couple of recent threads regarding a possible new album, a reunion, my one big wish, etc.... It got some support and some criticism.

Any genius or great melodies/arrangements have to come from Brian himself. But the end product, the way the songs evolve, for the tunes reach their full potential - that I think Rick Rubin can help with. A lot. Over the last twenty years or so, Rick Rubin's track record speaks for itself. Over that same time period, unfortunately, so does Brian Wilson's....

Yeah, when I listen to a song like "Midnight's Another Day", I think that a producer like Rubin could really elevate that song to a level that would put on the same pedestal as some of the greatest Beach Boys songs. Now, I know some here think it's already a masterpiece, but I think someone like Rubin could increase its impact. It almost seems like, for some reason, Brian gets shielded from creative influences that could give his modern music more vitality. For example, how come he didn't record Gettin' In Over My Head with the Wondermints? Because the production might have sounded contemporary instead of clueless?

don't know why "unfortunately" is in there -

Over the last twenty years or so, Rick Rubin's track record speaks for itself. Over that same time period, so does Brian Wilson's....  seems to work too! (especially considering the 15 years or so before the last 20)

BW88, Imagination, Roxy, BWPS - TLOS (hopefully)
Return to touring, highly acclaimed tours of Pet Sounds, Smile and Lucky Old Sun, hugely successful appearance at Glastonbury.  Not sure just how much people want from the bloke...

What Brian needs is a new album full of great songs.

If he records TLOS, he'll have that.

I don't get why Brian is the subject of so much criticism. As others have pointed out, he has written and released (or not released) tons of great songs over the last 20 years. In the last 5 years, he's released BWPS, the Christmas album, really good songs on soundtracks and compilations, and written TLOS. He's 65 and has issues that affect his creativity and productivity. All in all, I think he's doing pretty well-- certainly beyond reasonable expectations.

Couldn't agree more Amy.. I'd like to see some of these critics do better than what he has done, even without all of his problems. The fact is that most artists can't consistently churn out high quality material decade after decade. I mean the only really prolific and great Brian Wilson period is from about 1965-1967. Not saying his other eras aren't great, just that he wasn't anywhere near as prolific in coming up with great songs. And I think it's generally the same for most artists.

Brian Wilson has given us his fair share and of course we all want more but I can't believe that some people get frustrated when his new material is sub-par. Yes I wish Brian could come up with songs like God Only Knows, Surf's Up and yes even Midnight's Another Day all the time, but seriously, how reasonable is that? Most musicians can't even write one great song in their lifetime (I know that 'great' is a pretty subjective term) let alone dozens.

Amen to that. There's something a bit disturbing to me about the whole idea: lock him up with Rubin so we can have more music. He's a man, dammit, not a trained dog. With all due respect. I'm not trying to start a fight or anything, just giving my opinion.
 I understand wanting more great music, and I can see the point about having a good producer really pulling good performances from Brian rather than letting him slide. But it's just that, IMHO, he's given enough. If he comes out with more music, great. We'll enjoy it. If not, we'll still enjoy the old music 'til we die. If he comes out with a mediocre album--well, that's fine too. We'll check it out and we will find something to like on it, even if we don't like it overall.


Besides, Rubin and Wilson would most likely end in a lawsuit and a bunch of boot-legged music from the never-to-be-released "Rick Rubin sessions." No thank you.

But he _did_ come out with Midnight's Another Day, very, very, recently. And he presented TLOS, almost as if to say to critics, "Oh, you think I can't do it? Well, how do you like this??"  And people are still saying that he needs to be resurrected. GIOMH wasn't great. Okay, but Brian wasn't in the mood to do it. He has shown that when he's in the mood, he can do great things. Not when someone else decides he's in the mood (like a Rick Rubin) but when he decides he's in the mood. Like when he apparently called Scott Bennett and said, "Let's work on some music." And they did. And it was good. So stop saying he needs to come out of a slump, because he already pulled himself out.

I think the original point is a valid one, in that Brian is still writing some great songs, and we all want him to be recognised for what he is doing now. And a good way of doing this is if he works with people who can provide an extra boost and bring the material into 2008 somehow for a wider contemporary audience. Brian's indirect influence is huge at the moment. It would make me happy if he released an album that people could point to. Which is why I think the pause in putting TLOS down may be a good thing - if the result is something that refuses to conform to expectations.

Agreed Amy. And how many 65 year olds can say that they are still creating meaningful music?

By the way I wasn't suggesting that Midnight's Another Day wasn't recent, just that you can't expect EVERY new song to be as good as that or any other 'great' Brian song

Well said Lance. I agree with everything you say. As people have said before, Brian is THE person who has to want to make new music, otherwise it's just going to suck. And if he wants to retire or wants to put out 50 versions of Shortenin' Bread, then I totally support that. It doesn't mean you have to buy those 50 versions of Shortenin' Bread but the fact is that Brian Wilson has earnt the right to do whatever he feels like whether it's garbage or not. The fact is the list of enjoyable songs written and/or produced by Brian Wilson is without a doubt one of the longest lists in the history of pop music.

I like your point about we'll find something we like on it even if it isn't the best. I mean don't most of us do that anyway? I know I do. And sometimes I just like the song purely for Brian's lead vocal (in his peak of course) or the quirkiness of the lyrics or whatever it may be.

Ridiculous statement.

How do we know Rubin won't try to make Brian's stuff sound like modern, slick, mainstream hard rock? Isn't mainstream hard rock one of Rubin's calling cards? I think Darian and Mark Linett should help Brian produce, just like on SMiLE.

Well, Brian is (or rather, was) always talking about a "rock and roll" album. Actually, it might sound cool for Brian to do at least one song in that style.

Truth be told, though, IMHO Scott Bennett is Brian's best non-BB collaborator since, I dunno, Van Dyke Parks?

I might make a few enemies by saying this, but I thought Taylor Mills' album was ...not as good as it should have been. I was disappointed with some of those songs, and Scott worked on that album. I haven't heard a ton of his other stuff, but I wouldn't go out of my way to listen to it. Maybe his style is just not mine.

That said, Scott is extremely talented, and if TLOS is mostly his work, then I've found something of his I like. Clearly, he and Darian know Brian's music inside and out. That, combined with Brian's motivation, could make for something great. Maybe Brian could try one song with Rick to see how it goes, but I do like his work with his own band. And with Bacharach, too.

If Mark Linett were given a free reign and the ability to re-interpret... that would also be really interesting - not to downplay Darian at all.

I think it sucked. I respect Scott and Taylor for their abilities, but they didn't come through on that one. I hated the songs, disliked a lot of the sound. Cheese. Mediocre cheese, which is almost even worse than being awful cheese, which at least can draw some emotion (hatred).

(How's THAT for making a few enemies?)

Brian's career is just fine and doesn't need resurrection. Just by saying that it implies that Brian's career is in the tank. Compare him to any of his Rock and Roll contemporaries and honestly tell me Brian is somehow not on the same level. BWPS was more than anyone could ever ask for from the man. Maybe the best thing to resurrect his career would be a T.V. special anthology with the proper CD's that go along with it. That might be better publicity than a new album produced by Rick Rubin, if more interest, sales, and new music from Brian is what you mean by resurrection.


Anyone listen to David Gilmour's new album? It's alright, definitely has it's moments. His voice is still great. It wasn't the Rolling Stone record of the year though. How much can we ask for from Brian? He certainly can't dance around in flashy clothes on an IMAX screen like Mick Jagger.

Rick Rubin is not some kind of miracle worker who would resurrect Brian's career. Personally, I like Rick Rubin a lot. Hell, I'm sure I would like the work he would do with Brian very much. However it wouldn't resurrect something that doesn't need resurrection to begin with.

 

Slayer, early Beastie Boys, Johnny Cash's 'American' albums, Neil Diamond... Slick mainstream hard rock?

You're right, it doesn't need resurrection - but an encore would be a great bonus...

That's how I see it... Anything good from Brian after 1972 is and will always be a bonus.

Luther,

Ouch... a little harsh, don't ya think?  

Have you recorded any songs we can "review"?

Having said that I was hoping I would enjoy Taylor's cd more.  She has a gorgeous voice and Scott has written some write great songs (there are some great tunes on The Dotted Line cd - I LOVE No Wrong Notes in Heaven!) but not much of Lullagoodbye cd "stuck in my head".  I'd love to hear her voice on some more power poppy tunes (or maybe something soul or gospelish).

However Scott contributed a heck of a lot to TLOS and I LOVE those songs.  All of the songs on that project have elements I really enjoy (Yup AGD even Mexican Girl).  I really hope that Brian and team don't abandon TLOS.

Red Hot Chili Peppers?

So you're judging Rubin solely on the Chilli Peppers when his resume is far more varied than you're giving him credit for.  Johnny Cash's "American Recordings" are NOTHING  like what you describe.

Add the Dixie Chicks to Rubin's resume too.

I stand corrected. The Chili Peppers just happen to stick out in my mind the most when I think of Rick Rubin. Run DMC, too.

You shouldn't have to ask "why" because you went ahead and answered your own question.

I hate to keep using percentages, but who wants another BW88, Imagination, Roxy? You conveniently left out Pet Sounds Live, Getting In Over My Head, and The Christmas album. The answer is a very small number of people. I'm not even sure Brian is proud of some of those efforts? Where is Seymour Stein, Lenny Waronker, Clive Davis and those guys now?

And, now, Brian is going to tour "The Beach Boys' Greatest Hits" because?

The question/point of the thread is/was about Rick Rubin, and I believe that he could help. Simple as that. Nobody's talking about locking Brian up in some room. If you're familiar with Rick Rubin you would know that's not his style. But Brian Wilson NEEDS a producer, and I wouldn't hesitate investing in Rick Rubin. Would Neil Diamond endorse him? Would the late, great Johnny Cash endorse him? Or Tom Petty? Or Flea (Al Jardine's new buddy)?

The point about the term "resurrection" was raised. In 2008, Brian Wilson has a recording contract with who?

it's Brian Wilson, not Britney Spears!

Neil Diamond benefited from the hype of working with Rubin, that's how it works. If "12 Songs" had been produced by Joe Nobody in Nashville and sounded exactly the same, no one would have given a damn. Now, realistically. Do you people want Brian to "make it, again"? Hire a super-producer like Rubin, Godrich or O'Rourke. That'll hype the project and make people give it a chance. Or have Brian write and/or sing like in the sixties.

Please, no more Brian Wilson hype.

But, I think some are underestimating the importance of a producer, especially when it relates to Brian. Haven't we/they learned their lesson yet with BW88, Imagination, and GIOMH?

....oooh dit dit Silent Night dit dit Holy Night dit dit.... :police:

Or underestimating the importance of having an artist with much to say anymore. 

I love TLOS. I'd buy it whether the production were (in order of decreasing quality) classic BW, a quality modern producer (whether of the "classic" type like T-Bone Burnett or Rick Rubin or a more hip, younger name), Jeff Lynne or Gene Landy back from the grave. But the days of major innovation and popularity combined from BW are long gone, and frankly, even (either) one out of two is pretty unlikely.

Luther, I don't disagree with what you wrote. I'm not suggesting that - keeping with the thread topic - collaborating with Rick Rubin WILL GUARANTEE a success. What I am suggesting is that Brian NEEDS a co-producer, and to me, Rick Rubin is as good as anyone around today. And, again, keeping in mind what you wrote, at least it gives Brian a fighting chance. Brian's gonna keep making and releasing music until the day he dies. I just wish the people handling him would learn from the past mistakes (selection of producer), that's all.

Yeah, in keeping with the thread, then, I guess I'd say a very smart marketing campaign to renew interest in his classic material is the way to resurrect his career, with selected tours or shows featuring his complete band doing increasing doubling or replacement vocals to ensure he doesn't embarrass himself. That's how to sell more Brian Wilson product and keep the name out there. And I don't really care one way or the other whether that happens.

I'd still prefer someone who "gets" Brian to help him produce. Darian and/or Scott with Linett engineering would ork for me.

You know, a lot of the more striking pieces on the Cash series were covers and the Diamond, to be honest, just isn't in the same league and I can take or leave (okay, mostly don't play).

I wouldn't say Brian's career is in the tank, but save for SMiLE, which is a whole other beast in and of itself, he hasn't put out anything noteworthy as a solo artist.  If any producer can bring Brian Wilson's projects attention, Rick Rubin is the man.



It's a pretty good album.  I especially love the title track.  Great backing vocals by Crosby and Nash.  Anyone who loves harmonies should definately check that one out.

BW88 may not have been a top ten hit but it got some good reviews in rags as diverse as NME and Rolling Stone and it's still well-thought of by influential BB critics, one of whom shows up here now and then...

88 is a decent album, except for the dated production.  The music has that wonderful Wilson weirdness to it behind the sheen. I actually haven't heard the rest of his solo stuff, 'cept for Smile.

Why not release That Lucky Old Sun as a live performance album? It's obvious that BW today is not so much the brilliant studio wizard he used to be in the sixties, but as far as I'm concerned he's done some fine and very emotional stage performances with his band over the last few years. TLOS was even premiered that way, so why not just put it out? Everybody knows it's not 1966 anymore and I have to say I even like the Smile live DVD more than the BWPS studio album.

I don't really see stylistic compatibilty between Brian and Rick Rubin.  Brian would be better of not being overproduced, but Rubin is probably too minimalist.  I also agree that it really begins and ends with the material that Brian writes.