The Smiley Smile Message Board

I know this is extremely random but-
Have any of the beach boys ever shared their opinions on gay marriage and overall LGBT rights?

uhhh according to the gaines book, dennis, mike and brian were not into the gays back in the day. hopefully the mike and brian have evolved since then.

If it affects one's enjoyment of the music either way, there's a problem.

Eh. Yes and no. I can respect Orson Scott Card's writing even tho he's a total bigot. I still have an unabashed celebrity crush on young Grace Slick even tho her autobiography made her seem really airheaded and some anecdotes from other 60s musician bios made her out to be kind of a Bitch. But as someone pretty heavily in the B and T parts of the spectrum...it'd really upset me to think Brian would look down on me for that. Obviously I'd still love the music, but part of the appeal of Brian as a personal idol/inspiration to me is how sweet and genuine he is, and how much sh*t he's been thru which I assume would make him more empathetic and open-minded to the suffering of others. I don't care if he was against it in the 60s and 70s; it was a different time, when such things were unheard of and scandalous. But if it came out he still felt that way today, it would definitely take something away from my admiration for him.

I distinctly remember his Facebook page shared a rainbow flag when gay marriage was legalized tho. Maybe just jumping on the bandwagon, maybe just good PR, but I like to believe it was a sincere gesture of support.

At the very least they did work with both Curt Boettcher and Jack Rieley.

Personally I'd expect someone like Brian to be very non-judgmental when it comes to anyone's sexual orientation but then I don't know any of these guys in person of course.

Winner.

There has been a major shift in opinion over the past 10, even 5 years involving these issues. I come from a fairly conservative and religious background and my views have changed immensely during that time.

It always bothers me when people point to stage banter and interviews from 40-50 years ago. While it certainly makes me cringe now, I think it is unfair to judge people by 2015 standards.

Exactly.  Unfair to judge 1960 by 2015.  Ridiculous.

Everyone evolves, and with information comes enlightenment.

I've read Gaines book about a two years ago, from what I remember all of the guys (except for Brian, I believe) especially Carl had a problem with Jack Rieley being gay.

It's been a while though, so I don't exactly remember what it said. If anyone has read the book recently I'd like someone to clear this up! 

Given that all of Carl's major compositions 1971-1973 - "Long Promised Road", "Feel Flows", "The Trader" - have lyrics by Jack... I find that hard to credit. But I'll check.

BTW, Jack was bisexual, not gay.

But wasn't Jack's sexual preference a secret up until a certain point in the timeline? I thought I recall hearing that the band found out at a certain point, but had been in the dark beforehand.

I think it had been noted quite early on that he seemed to have far more male friends than female.

Brian's Facebook had a gay pride thing the day the Supreme Court ruled gay marriage constitutional. Take that how you will.

By the way, I think this isn't a topic that should be on this part of the board.

I agree. I don't see this ending well.

I agree, this is a powder keg question to which we have no way of knowing an answer.

That and more vocal elements on both sides of said debate could turn this thread nasty in a heartbeat.

The real realist. ;)

Yes, because rights for people are totally something that's debatable.

Let's debate your rights and see how you feel.

That's not what he was talking about.

Right now, I'm brewing up a hot mug of Who Gives a F**k? 

Anyone care to join me?

I'm reading the book now (am very close to the end) and while it does indicate that members of the band were uncomfortable about Rieley's sexual orientation, I don't think it mentioned anything about Carl in particular having a bigger problem with it than other members of the band. 

Also, given Carl's reputation as the nicest guy in the world, I really don't want to believe this of him. 

Actually, one of my main complaints about the Gaines book is that there are far too many instances where he states "the Beach Boys" liked this or "the Beach Boys" didn't like that.  As we all know, the Beach Boys are made up of individuals that all likely had their own views and thoughts on everything.  Gaines tends to present things as though the members of the band were all of the same mind about some things, which I find very hard to believe.  But I digress.   

I agree as well....I'm going to leave it open for now, but that likely will change.

Not a good idea.

there is no reason why this shouldnt be discussed, and there is actual info out there about how the band members felt about gay people according to bios. jeeze.

The mere fact that legal rights evolve over time underlines their debatable nature. I don't see why such rights (including mine) shouldn't be debatable.

But the "general discussion" section is no place for such a debate, so I'll stop there.

===

Wasn't Dennis rumored to have gay sex fantasies? If I remember correctly, the Gaines book talks about the subject (even going as far as to say that it was a rape fantasy). Not really an opinion on LGBT rights from Dennis, but it's somewhat related.

Hey, everyone, this thread isn't about you, so shut your face please.
Let's stick to the topic of The Beach Boys and their opinions.

I imagine it would have been fairly difficult to be involved in the, let's call it, entertainment industry, without knowing people who were gay or knowing that people were gay, especially when they were your manager and lyricist. They also worked with Curt Becher or however the hell you want to spell his name at whatever point in his career. It wasn't like, "No way, he's gay!" was it? Though, granted, HCTN wasn't 'macho city' enough for Dennis.

Dude people didn't even admit that Liberace and Rob Halford were gay!

Liberace was gay ? Well, who knew ?  :o

In the 60s there were lots of openly gay or bisexual artists - beat writers, people involved with the Factory scene in NY, Truman Capote... But, it was not discussed in/on mainstream media (other than references to "confirmed bachelors") until the late 60s, 70s. And then, still, artists that felt that broad commercial appeal mattered, like Liberace, tried to avoid confirmation.

The Beach Boys were from a pretty conservative enclave and it seems did many of their early performances in suburby venues, rather than in divey urban clubs, so didn't have the kinds of experiences and exposure of a lot of bands.

Then, they worked a lot in the rather conservative LA industry. I'd guess it's not likely that they encountered a lot of people out of the mainstream until the mid-sixties.

I agree. It's unfair to judge what was socially acceptable or not even known much about from the prism of 50 years later. The Beatles made tons of wisecracks about gays and used demeaning language that would never fly today, and yet their manager was gay and evidently none of them had a problem with his homosexuality. I'm sure Brian, Mike, Al, whoever..used incredibly insulting verbiage and slurs at the time because they had been socially conditioned to do so, and despite the talent and sensitivity they had as artists, they were just young guys in their 20's...basically right out of high school...which automatically made them immature goofballs no matter how brilliant they may have been musically.  

I highly doubt these same guys in their 70's, even setting aside how social norms change through the decades, think the same way.

As much as we like to think that we're nuanced and progressive in 2015 compared to how things were 50 years ago, it's inevitable that someone in 2065 will look back at blogs and social media comments from people in 2015 and think "Geez, the people back in 2015 were so ignorant and backwards".   :)

The Beach Boys were raised in an era when many children were conditioned to believe that being gay was a disorder or a disease. They were also raised in a conservative atmosphere and weren't the most worldly people, despite their tours and everything. They likely met gay people but maybe not OUT gay people, as being out wasn't the norm. I'm not making excuses for them or presuming to know what their views were. Hopefully, if they ever DID have a problem, their minds opened over time, as happened with a lot of Americans.

I thought that Brian went to Elton John's wedding. Am I mistaken?

Jack was a big part of the band for a critical juncture in thier career. Brian did publicly mention Jack's passing on Facebook, while some other BB member(s) did not, as far as I know. That may mean absolutely nothing with regards to this topic, or it might mean something. Not making any claims, since all of us are just guessing with regards to this topic; just something to ponder, since it did surprise and disappoint me a bit.

C'mon man, did you even read my post? I specifically said "I don't care if he was against it in the 60s and 70s; it was a different time, when such things were unheard of and scandalous. But if it came out he still felt that way today..."

Yeah...um...I was agreeing with you. I'll go back and throw "I agree" at the top of it. Maybe you'll see where I was coming from. Sorry for the confusion.

Yes, I think Brian did go to Elton's wedding but as I understand it he kept wondering when the bride would be there.

If a joke, kind of funny. If not, kind of sad.

Ok, fair enough. It's just that when you reiterate what I'm saying like that w/o indicating that I've said it, it comes off differently than simply agreeing. Just one of many miscommunications when just text is used tho I guess

This I would disagree with. Of course there is a huge spectrum to consider, but my take on your statement is that ANY level of homophobia (or what have you) shouldn't affect your enjoyment of the music, i.e. separate the art from the artist. But I much prefer to enjoy and support musicians who I appreciate outside of their music as well (or as much as you can ascertain), even just down to how they carry themselves.

Yeah, I see what you mean. I just liked what you wrote and wanted to bounce off it. Lol

Y'know, I find that pretty insulting. To Brian, implying that he'd not know by then that Elton was gay, and to the posters here, expecting they'd find it amusing.

As long as someone makes good music, their sexual orientation is irrelevant to me. In fact, the only thing that's made me dump CDs and pull tracks from my iPod is someone being convicted of paedophilia.

And yes, I can see this debate heading down The Road Best Not Taken. Blink of an eye.

Liquidated your Rolf Harris collection, then? Yeah, this thread is pretty embarrassing. Geez, the people back in 2015 were so ignorant and backwards.

Admitting is one thing. Knowing is another.

Sir, you are entirely correct ! Some of his early stuff (produced by one George Martin, btw), would be called world music today, but when the news emerged... no question, had to go. Thankfully I was never a Lostprophets fan.

Bet you've had a Gary Glitter cd or two at the back of your collection, though eh?

Nope, never have. Well, he is on the original Jesus Christ, Superstar, but has maybe two lines - I can overlook that.

Its all good.

And yes, I can see this thread getting out of hand too, but I think its fair for someone to be curious. Personally, based on the flag and RIP for Jack and everything, I think its fair to say regardless of what his feelings may have been, Brian is supportive of LGBT people now and thats all that matters. Bruce seems to be too based on what someone said of his blaming the death of disco on homophobia (why would he care/bring that up if he wasnt sympathetic?). As for Carl and Dennis, we may never know and personally I dont care. They could have harbored homicidal tendencies and we'll never know, so its no good speculating about unknown aspects of their character after death. Enjoy the music. I personally dont look up to Mike or Al (no offense to them personally) or care about their worldviews so it doesnt matter to me if theyre supportive or homophobic or not. Id be disappointed, but it wouldnt seriously effect my enjoyment of their work, similar to Orson Scott Card and Grace Slick. Nothing takes away from how awesome Enders Game is, or the magnificence of Surrealistic Pillow, After Bathing at Baxters and the Smothers Brothers performance of White Rabbit. The only person it'd matter to me personally is Brian, and thats only because I look up to him as a hero. Hard to think of someone as your hero knowing theyd hate you over something you cant change, y'know?

So, I think the question is pretty much answered for all the people alive. We know Brian is supportive, and Bruce at least sympathetic. If Al and Mike are not, at least they have the good sense to keep it to themselves and not go around making bigoted statements. Thats really all that matters, I'd say.

Can we be clear that Rolf Harris and Gary Glitter have nothing to do with LGBT, nothing at all, and are entirely off topic.

Oh god, yes, please. Thank you for pointing that out.

Of course: a slight detour down a dead end, for which I apologise.

Yes please...

Yup. More a sandbox thing. Not a topic I'm interested in anyway. I don't care if anyone is gay or collects butterflies or both. If two butterfly collectors want to get married, go ahead. :)

When Sean O'Hagan of The High Llamas met up with The Beach Boys to discuss producing an album for them :

http://uncanny1.blogspot.co.uk/2005/05/brian-wilsonandy-paleysean-ohagan.html

Sharing whole article for context, but drawing particular attention to the following paragraph :

'Mike Love was less than hospitable. "He called me a blueboarder straight away, because I'm from England. 'You're all blueboarders,' he said. I was stunned. But it's weird - he's totally homophobic, but he struts about like a Seventies camp queen, doing his little breath mint wiggle. "Why all the gay moves, Mike?" ' *

*board has automatically changed words above to "blueboarder", the rest of the article's a fascinating insight into how BB-land worked at the time...

Oh boy. Nobody really comes out looking good in that story. Especially Mike. Is "blueboarder" really this board's euphemism/correction for f@gg0t? Where did that come from? Cant say Im surprised about Mike. Just one more reason to dislike him, I guess.

I resemble that insinuation. I'm from England, and I'm definitely not a Blueboarder. I may consult my legal team on this appalling insult. Really...

The German word for "bassoon" is "Fagott". Oh, wait, that's pretty irrelevant...

Then what's the German word for an Englishman who smokes cigarettes ?

Banana Daiquiri

Again, this seems like 20 year old recollections being used to bludgeon people in 2015. While these anecdotes are cringe-worthy now, I will, once again, say sentiments in the USA have changed dramatically in the last five years alone.

I pulled this from a Politifacts article:

"In 2007, all the presidential contenders except for longshot candidates -- both Democrats and GOP -- were against same-sex marriage, the New York Times reported. So were the majority of Americans, polls showed."

I really don't know what more can be gained from this thread. I applaud Brian for his outward show of support when gay marriage was approved. I can also understand why others would chose to not make public statements. For me personally, I didn't need a bunch of family members and old classmates berating me for my views. I feel like I have been able to help change more minds by having personal conversations than making chest-thumping statements on Facebook. But that's just me.

Indeed. I personally feel Ive changed more minds just being openly out than making sanctimonious posts online too.

Im aware even Obama--who inexplicably some people credit with making Gay marriage happen--ran against it in 2008.

That being said, theres a difference between thinking Gay marriage is wrong, and calling someone you just met a f@ggot and saying all people from X country is a f@ggot. One is a product of the times, the other is just being a cantankerous old b@st@rd, regardless of time or place. I dont see how that can be excused, whether it happened 2 or 20 years ago. Im not wagging my finger at Mike for being anti-gay in this case so much as being undeniably rude and insulting.

You're not a moderator anymore, remember?

True. Us mere members shouldn't have the right to share our opinions!

You know, I had just forgotten until you rushed in to remind me. What a relief!

The Beachboys were of their era on this topic as we all were in our own particular formative years.   I would assume they have moved on and matured , evolved , to borrow a phrase from the politicians.  Most of us who grew up in the  50s and 60s were exposed to a lot of bigotry and intolerance, insensitive jokes about women, ethnic groups, and gays.  Hopefully most of us here have gotten beyond this along with the Beachboys.    still, a lot of folks , even some educated folks, seem to have trouble letting go of rigid gender role expectations.     but as has been said, probably enuf of this topic in this particular forum.   

Wow-
I haven't visited Smiley Smile in a few days and came back to look at my post.

Jeez people? Isn't this what this website is for? Discussing and learning about the Beach Boys? It obviously has been mentioned in BBs books, so it's not an unreasonable question.

Well let's keep this thing going.  We've obviously run out of things to discuss.... ::)

If that is the correct answer, I don't get the joke. :) Unfortunately, I don't even understand the question, which seems to be a joke too, but it seems I'm not deep enough into the English language. :-[

The joke is that you pointed out that the German word for one random thing sounds like a totally different English word, so they were coming up with another, funny-sounding, random English word.
The question (which, yes, is also a joke) is based around Mike Love saying all English men are "f.ags", but that to an English person the word "f.ag" usually means a cigarette.

Honestly, anytime someone says "How do you say _______?" or some derivative of that, I just immediately think of this scene from Godfather 2. IDKY but its like a commercial, it just implants itself into my mind whenever the scenario comes up.


(http://woodyboater.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/image16.jpg)

Aaahh... thank you! I get the joke now, it's funny! :) I learn so much here.

Well, one German word for an adjustable wrench translates as "Englishman", while there's a kind of large cookie that translates as "American".

Dang, I thought this was the one place I could go online and not be inundated by this ridiculous subject.

You mean LGBT rights or completely irrevelant German words? ;D

Hey nobody forced ya to click on the link ya nincompoop :ahh 

wahhhh why cant i keep my head in the sand!

So, if one tires from the overkill, one's head is in the sand?  Project much?

Hardly an inundation. One thread with two pages?

the civil rights of a maligned minority isnt something that one typically gets exhausted of or describes as a "ridiculous subject" without sounding like a gross bigot, just sayin.

To answer the original question:

- There are decade old anecdotes. Safe to say their feelings and actions could be described as of the times.
- Recently, it seems only Brian has shown any type of public support via Facebook.

That pretty much sums it up, no? Anything else would be speculation or beating on them for beliefs held many years ago.

Self-righteous social justice warriors are so adorable.

We're pretty good in bed, too.

It's one thing to have an opposing argument, but antagonizing right off the bat is not going to win any hearts or minds.

I love that you defy my expectations and weaken my prejudice. That's awesome. And I'm not being sarcastic.

Ive encountered REAL Social Justice Warriors. They are some of the most stuck-up, judgemental, holier than thou assholes on the internet. Anyone who dares suggest that Black Lives Matter might be going about their goals in the wrong way is racist, anyone who says that word "crazy" (even saying a situation is crazy) is "ableist," and even trans men who say theyve had it bad are accused of "taking their new male privlidge for granted" and other such nonsense. Trust me, nobody here is a SJW. Youre just an asshole.

Oh dear..... :o

I don't think calling chaki a SJW was right, but it wasn't necessary for chaki to say Bonneville had his head in the sand, either.  This string of comments I think is an example of why some of thought this was a bad idea for a thread.  I view it in the same way as I viewed the thread that asked if Bruce was divorced; I don't know and I don't care.

Yes it is! ;D

The OP did ask for opinions..... ;D

"Who cares?"

Seriously. This should be the only response to the question posed in this thread.

I'm sure the Beach Boys are much more concerned about their careers than about taking sides in a social justice debate which (like many before it) has brought out the best and the worst from many on both sides. After the Bruce debacle during the reunion tour, I'm not surprised that they keep their traps shut; some jackoff somewhere is going to choose to be offended over what the band members think about this when their beliefs are beyond irrelevant in the long run anyway.

For one, this is among the most minute and peripheral of topics to be discussing in the context of the band's history; Jack Rieley's sexuality notwithstanding, of course. But at the end of the day, even then, does it REALLY have any bearing on the band's story? It shouldn't matter what the band thinks of LGBTQI* people; if it does and you find yourself in disagreement with their thinking, by all means use your own conscience and modify your listening habits accordingly. It'd be sad to deprive yourself of such great art because of a difference of opinion, but hey. That's life, eh? Can't listen to music if the creators think even a smidge differently than we do, now, can we?

Maybe in the long run true equality will lead to little more than apathetic responses to questions like these; personal business remains the domain of the people involved. Time will tell if said apathy will become a widespread reaction. It should.

*Apologies in case I have triggered/microaggressed/used incorrect pronouns/declared war on Christianity/(insert your reason to choose to be offended here) against anyone by forgetting another part of the ever-expanding LGBT acronym.

Not a single person in this thread has said this.

I have not implied that it was said here, either.

Some people are curious. Ive laid out why I dont care too much either way and how I think the answer is pretty much settled. But by asking this question we found out that story of Mike in the 90s which certainly lessened my opinion of him (again, not for being homophobic so much as being abusive and borderline insane about it to a total stranger) and depending on someone's views that could be very important to know. I see what youre saying "just ignore the messy politics and enjoy the music" but to a lot of people this isnt just politics it IS in fact a human rights issue. Itd be like learning someone you admire is racist or something. Sure, even ol' Honest Abe was "racist" for his time by thinking the black man was inherently inferior to the white man and should be sent back to Liberia after the war, but there's a difference between that "product of the times" thinking and someone nowadays (or in the 90s I guess) going around calling people the N-word after they just met. What Im getting at is it could be a revealing look at their true characters for some people. Personally I think the question has been pretty well-answered by this point so Im not sure what else there is to be said either way, unless we get some more insight into Al's views I guess

"the civil rights of a maligned minority..."

I don't know who the hell chaki is, and I realize those are pretty tame words around here, but they sound SJW enough to me to merit the jab.  For what it's worth, I take the libertarian approach to all this.  I really don't care who you dig and I think the government should get out of marriage all together.  I do have family members affected, who rejoice in the recent SCOTUS decision.  So no, my head's not in the sand, nor do I think my annoyance with the movement permeating every nook and cranny of culture like a bad Taylor Swift song warrants the bigot label.  That said...


Not gonna argue with you there.  :)

See? This thread has yet to implode and incinerate any onlookers. Even when inflammatory, insulting language is used, posters are able to step back and explain themselves rationally and use some humor to defuse a potentially explosive situation. Hooray for SmileySmile! Now lock this thread.

I def agree the government shouldnt be involved. Whatever occurs between two consenting adults shouldnt be anyone elses business. It shouldnt have taken a supreme court decision to make that so, but unfortunately we have a lot of overly moralistic religious factions with sway in this country. And they needed to be reminded that the Constitution, not the Bible is the law of the land.

It's one of many dumb remarks made by Michael in the past. I highly doubt there was any overbearing anti-gay prejudice on his part apart from that which was "of the times."


It was always a human rights issue and I don't think anyone has disputed that.


Are we assuming that Christians are the only people who have a bone to pick with the behavior of consenting adults? Be careful with how you lump people into a box.

All I'm going to say on this issue is this:

Thinking back to an earlier comment that said that if LGBT issues affects your enjoyment of the music, there's a problem...just want to add to that:

If Beach Boys' attitudes toward LGBT issues affects music but none of the real sh*t that went on affects your attitude toward the music, there's an even bigger problem.

I just want to say that there are a lot of hypocrites out there who will cast stones. While I believe in the moral standard of the bible, neither I nor anyone else has ever been able to live up to it. Which is why we all need forgiveness. If you don't believe in the bible I can totally understand why your moral views may be different about certain things. Someone else may feel it is immoral to kill and eat animals. I disagree, but I respect your views so long as you don't enforce that on me. This is what freedom is all about isn't it?

I think what people get confused with this issue is that the Supreme Court ruling made it so that same sex couples can obtain a marriage license, and legally tie the knot in the eyes of the law.

However, what the zealots forget, or choose to ignore, is that individual places of worship can still choose to not marry a same sex couple if it doesn't go with their belief system. 

So, you're right the law is with the Constitution and the Supreme Court say.  If churches choose to do so, they can go to the Bible for guidance.

From a purely cynical view, money is likely the main motivator as any couple needs to pay for a marriage license.  Giving same sex couples the right to marry (which I should point out is something I support) brings in revenue. 

Lock it lock it lock it lock it lock it lock it this is going to get worse lock it lock it lock it

Jesus once said if you hate your brother, it is murder. If you lust after someone, it is adultery. He also said, he who has no sin let him cast the first stone. According to these standards we are all guilty. :)
So as a Christian I want to agree with Mujan on this. I don't thing the constitution ever intended the USA a Christian nation. Other wise there wouldn't be freedom of religion.

I suggest that if anyone wants to discuss their own opinion on this matter, they start a new thread in the sandbox.
Please keep this thread just for discussing any record of the Beach Boys' opinions.

There's a lot of that going on, Emily, all over the place:

- Concert reviews posted here instead of the concert reviews subforum
- Album/book reviews instead of the dedicated reviews forum
- etc.

(Not going to pretend it doesn't bother me, but hey...I'm not a moderator on this site...which, quite frankly makes me feel much better about myself as a person.)

Frankly it doesn't really bother me typically if threads are in the wrong place. For some reason though, if there's going to be a feud that isn't about the BBs, I'd rather it be in the sandbox. Don't know why.

I don't have a problem with reviews being on the main page as they are grouped ie The BW PS Tour 2016 or BB Tour 2015. They don't take up much space and I find them an interesting read. Albums and books are hardly an every year occurrence so they also deserve a main page especially next year with both Mike and Brian writing bio's.

From what I understand Mike Love is actually a post-op trans whose birth name was Michelle. A little known fact is that Michelle Love inspired Paul McCartney to compose "Michelle".

Little known fact - "Help Me Rhonda" was originally "Help Me Ronald".

 :-\

 ;D

Little known fact - "Busy Doin' Nothin'" was originally "Busy Doin' Nathan"

Is "Nothin'" a popular girl's name in the strange world you inhabit?

Well, I thought I was the only one who found the silly tranny Beach Boys song titles to be rather not funny.

I strongly suggest that as well.

Extremely strongly.

Perhaps the beach boys have addressed this sort of thing in song on the C50 lp in The private life of Bill and Sue.   :smokin

They probably haven't really spoken about it because just in my opinion, most people don't really care one way or the other.  Live and let live, as you will.

I'd imagine to that community, it's a big deal to them and something to be curious about, but I think to most heterosexual people they just don't think about it much.   

I also think you'd be hard pressed to find anybody in the music industry who wasn't generally supportive of LGBT rights (the phrase the OP used), because for whatever reason there seems to be a higher percentage of LGBT in the music industry than the general populace.  So in other words, all of these guys have probably known LGBT people their entire lives (they've been famous musicans since their teens). 

I think studies have shown that people who actually know LGBT people are more likely to be supportive of gay marriage, etc.    Kind of hard to be hardball against it if your neighbor's gay.  Or if you're in a band and two of the guitarists are dating each other, lol

I've told this story before, but when I was a kid, I absolutely thought they were singing "Help me Ronnie" (my name).  It never occurred to me that the song was about a girl. 

They're not even slightly funny. Incidentally, the word "tr*nny" is regarded by many trans people as roughly as offensive as many black people consider the n word. Given that at least one trans person has posted in this thread, it's probably an idea to avoid the term if you don't want to cause offence.

Any personal opinions are of far lesser impact than the following of the music in the LGBT community.  I did not notice any mention of the all important booklet in the Pet Sounds Box Set, and the two page Garry Trudeau Doonesbury reprinted cartoon on pages 20-21, following the release of the Box Set.  They appeared in over 500 newspapers around the US in May of 1990. (The CD release impact.)

"Later that year Brian (Wilson) and Garry autographed the original strips and those panels were sold by a San Francisco art gallery, raising thousands of dollars for 'The Names Project AIDS Memorial Quilt' through sales of the artwork, a limited edition poster and benefit concert at which Brian performed a short set that included God Only Knows."

The Pet Sounds Box Sessions Set was released on November 4, 1997.  

Not to get too off topic within a thread that has arguably veered off topic, but just one note about concert reviews on the main forum. I don’t see it as a problem, and actually prefer it. It’s not as if the board is so prolifically active that it clogs things up. I’ve been amazed at how little the November/December Brian dates were discussed.

Concert reviews (and general tour threads) are more on-topic than a lot of stuff in the main forum, and really one of the only things where elements of the band are still regularly active. They’re not exactly knocking out an album each year or anything.

I think the sub-forum for “Concert Reviews” is a good repository for old reviews, especially stuff like C50 when we had a lot more reviews and threads for nearly every concert on the tour. Outside of C50, we get sporadically active Brian tour threads, and really only occasional reviews and commentaries about Mike’s shows (meanwhile in past years Al’s shows are so obscure and sporadic that years could have gone by with little mention of his shows).

Hey Jude - The thread title maybe should have been a very good Sandbox topic. 

I'm not clear at all on what you are trying to convey.

   

I find it amusing that the same group of people that will rip each other up and down for having a differing opinion on how C50 ended are the same group that is almost comically walking on eggshells with this topic.  I'm not belittling the topic (LGBT rights-- not the title topic, which I find completely irrelevant).  I just have a few pet peeves that happen to converge in this thread: self-righteousness activism (regardless of the issue) and Americans' tendency to bend over backward not to offend selective groups who they see as in need hero defenders.  

This is exactly the sort of post I was referring to when I suggested a topic be opened in the Sandbox if someone wants to discuss their own opinions rather than the Beach Boys'. I'm "walking on eggshells" because I'm trying hard to avoid getting drawn into an off-topic argument, not because I'm not willing to argue on this topic, in its place.

I'm referring to the post only a few clicks above yours and mine, referencing other potential topics that belong in other forums, including "Concert Reviews."

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23116.msg551134.html#msg551134

My apologies, as my post required having read other posts on the same page as well.

I'd say the point I was making, whether one cares or agrees or disagrees, was not oblique or confusing in the slightest.

As for myself I now know why ol Billy C says he avoids the Sandbox like the plague. Better to just know that "hey these are people who I can discuss the bbs with" and not what everyone's stand is on political/social things. I got a quick peak at the abortion topic and that was enough.

I do appreciate it, Andrew, sticking up for me. Personally I think Ron raises a good point--if you're not lgbt then you don't think about this stuff or really care, while for someone who is it's obviously more of a big deal. I think there *is* something to be said on the whole "evil succeeds when good men do nothing" point of view--you may not care but it means a lot to others who could use support, etc. But I sympathize with those who don't think a beach boys forum is the proper place to soapbox for this. I resent the accusation that anyone has been doing just that, however. I don't think anyone has been self-righteously crusading for morality so much as just discussing the topic (which for what it's worth I agree shouldn't be on the main board anymore.) The only thing I can think of is myself saying that to go around calling people f@ggot is wrong and Andrew just gently bringing up that the word tranny is hurtful to some people. Again if that's grandstanding or being a SJW to some of you I suggest checking out Tumblr or certain sections of Facebook. I don't see what's so deplorable about raising awareness that certain terms or behavior are upsetting when it comes up as long as its done in an informative rather than holier-than-thou way.

That said, I think maybe this thread ought to be locked or moved before it goes in an ugly/off-topic direction. Like I've been saying, the question has been answered as substantially as possible. When a topic devolves into replacing names in song titles its lost all reason to exist, not because that's offensive but because it's fucking stupid.

Mujan - give some of us a little credit.  Many of us have or unfortunately "had" (HIV-AIDS) LGBT community family members or friends.  As a result of better meds, fewer LGBT members who are HIV positive, succumb to this.  Now, a health care issue such as HIV has found itself in another population;  those who are addicted.

So, in the 80's and 90's before the advanced meds that have emerged, I would liken the scourge of HIV in the LGBT community, to the epidemic of OD's going on right now, in the general population, where the lack of understanding of the problem produces prejudice, disparagement and treatment that needs to be advocated and fought for.   And maybe some of the activism that the LGBT did, has helped an unintended population.

So there is a frame of reference with a "marginalized population" who might very well have an affinity for BB music as was recognized in the Doonesbury cartoon from 1990 in the Pet Sounds Session Box set.  It is not so different, just a different population, who have an emerging set of needs and civil rights (whether it is health care advocacy or discriminatory treatment with  jobs, etc.) 

But, I do love your passion for advocacy.  Bravo!  ;)

Exactly.

100% agreed. I'm locking this thread now.