The Smiley Smile Message Board

Of course when you interview Mike Love and Bruce Johnston of the Beach Boys you’re going to have to ask them if they’ve seen Love and Mercy.

LOVE: No, I have not.

JOHNSTON: Who has time?

LOVE: We are going to end up doing about 165 shows this year.

JOHNSTON: I’m hoping I can see it on the airplane.

LOVE: Well, I think anytime they spell your name right it’s good for business, isn’t that what they say? Yes, there’s a lot of emotion about it, a lot of talk about it, but it’s a story of an aspect of Brian’s life—maybe not the most joyful one, or the most fun part of his life, but nonetheless… it’s about an aspect of his life.

With that out of the way, let’s talk about the Beach Boys.

Mike Love and Bruce Johnston shouldn’t have to spend their whole freaking lives apologizing for not being Brian Wilson.

You say to-MAY-toe; I say tuh-MAH-toe. You say Car-uh-BEE-en; I say Cuh-RIB-be-in. You, swept away on a trail of Alex Chilton-flavored pixie dust by the legend of wronged Brian Wilson and a belief in the ultimate superiority of all flawed geniuses to any other type of artists, say that Mike Love is a douche; I say that he has kept alive the legacy of one of America’s greatest bands and the vision of one of our greatest artists, and he has done this cheerfully, energetically—even with a little grace—and he’s done it in the face of a lot of obstructions, a pile of untimely deaths, and a plethora of know-it-all music critics.

“Everything you read is not based on fact,” Love comments. “I know what I did—and if I was brash, or outspoken sometimes, and someone without a sense of humor pins me with having a certain personality type that’s derogatory or even defamatory—well, I know what I did, what I wrote, what I’ve done with the group, what I’ve done with Brian.”

I like Mike Love. There, I said it. He seems very damn genuine, with an honest love for the songs and voices of Brian and Carl Wilson. He also has a very real and endearing commitment to environmentalism and transcendental meditation, and it’s hard not to like someone who starts singing virtually every time a Beach Boys title is mentioned. Bruce Johnston, who has been in the Beach Boys for 51 years, is also eminently likable, a true gearhead who talks about the bands’ evolving recording techniques with childlike joy.

Now back to our story.

Beginning in February 1964, the very soul of American electric pop was hijacked by the idea of Beatles. When the Beatles arrived, a luscious and diverse vein of American musical DNA was largely discarded by a generation of young bands who were seduced by the plugged-in Tin Pan Alley/Brill Building traditionalism of the Beatles.

It’s time to stop thinking of the Beach Boys in such black and white terms.

Circa 1966, one thing stood in the way of the near-complete obliteration of this American imprint on rock/pop. This was the Beach Boys. Their masterpiece, Pet Sounds, had seamlessly blended the smooth splendor of mid-century vocal pop with quirky yet empathic mod-culture-inflected compositions that referenced a gorgeous American tradition that the Beatles had eradicated. Jesus, that’s a helluva sentence. Pet Sounds proved that a pop group could make an album-length piece comparable with the greatest long-form works of Bernstein, Copland, Ives, and Rodgers and Hammerstein.

The architect of Pet Sounds was Brian Wilson, a 24-year-old man who chose to withdraw into the studio to best serve his muse and his band.

“Why should the guy who is writing and producing be wasting away in Fargo, North Dakota, when he could be in the studio?” states Bruce Johnston, who replaced Wilson on the road. “Why would the man with ability to connect those dots be sitting in a motel in Atlanta when he could be in the studio? I never thought anything was strange about that. Think about his job—he writes the melodies, he has Mike co-write the lyrics with Gary Usher and a few other people, he starts arranging what the track’s gonna be, and in the studio he’s making the track come alive. He’s learning from the engineer, Chuck Britz, about EQ’s and other stuff like that, because he’s not learning anything over at Capitol, because they were breathing on him too hard. So he’s got three, four, five things to do at once! And then, what’s kind of just natural and a gift becomes a required thing to deliver, from the label. So everybody put the pressure on him.”

Pet Sounds marked the brilliant dawn of a new era for American pop, one that acknowledged the tumbling, misty, mesa-scraped and marsh-filled miles of American song while creating something startling and new. The next part of that story was supposed to be SMiLE.

SMiLE, which aspired to assemble an extraordinary mofungo of American folk tics, treasures, shadows, fears, and emerging technologies into a shockingly new yet completely user-friendly cantata, could have been the work that set the standard for an inventive and progressive American music.

And it’s time to stop blaming Mike Love for the collapse of SMiLE.

A strong manager, a strong A&R man, even a determined engineer could have saved SMiLE. It was so revolutionary in concept and execution that it needed an extremely patient and determined hand to bring it all together, to act as the pragmatic facilitator for Brian Wilson’s revolutionary vision (in fact, it took nearly three decades—and the dedicated, persistent and kind discipline of Darian Sahanaja—for SMiLE to be completed). Which leads to the second key point in the defenestration of SMiLE: Composed of fragments of art, folk, melody and ambience that needed to be assembled into an intricate, operatic-like framework, SMiLE essentially anticipated the kind of production that only digital and automated recording/mixing made practical; failing that, only a carefully notated score could have led to the album’s completion. The technology for the former wouldn’t exist for another 25 years, and the discipline for the latter was never summoned.

After the collapse of SMiLE, the Beach Boys kept going. Deal with it. f***, celebrate it.

SMiLE didn’t collapse because Mike Love didn’t like Van Dyke Park’s lyrics.

“There’s zero animosity between myself and Van Dyke,” Love calmly states. “At least not from my side, and I don’t think from his, either. I think he’s a fantastic, brilliant musician and a brilliant lyricist in a different way than I,” Love continues. “Because I like it when songs go to No. 1, or Top 10 (laughs). That’s my crass commercialism showing!”

“By the way,” Johnston chimes in, “he plays a 100-year-old accordion on ‘Kokomo.’ ”

“That certainly gives a lie to this idea that we don’t like Van Dyke,” adds Love. “I like Van Dyke. Van Dyke is a modern-day Lewis Carroll, in my estimation. He’s brilliant and he’s talented and he’s gifted and that stuff, but see, Mike Love, see, he likes to write a lyric after thinking about how the tenses fit in, and ‘Is it just going to appeal to the moment in time, or is it going to appeal to all generations?’ I try to communicate something, I look at lyrics as a way to communicate. Like ‘Good Vibrations’—the track was really strange, I mean different, strange, unique, weird, but in a good way, but still, what are people going to think about it in Omaha, that kind of thing? So, I thought, everybody understands boy-girl, and I’m picking up good vibrations, she’s giving me the excitations, so that’s my contribution to that record.”

Not only did the collapse of SMiLE halt an important thread in the development of American pop, but it also significantly obstructed our ability to think clearly about the Beach Boys, whose career must be seen as inclusive of Pet Sounds/SMiLE, not exclusive of it. Many see the Beach Boys’ post-SMiLE work as secondary apologia for The Life of (Not Having) Brian. But between 1967 and 1973, the largely Brian-less Beach Boys produced some of their most endearing work: Friends, Sunflower, Surf’s Up, 20/20, and Holland are each essential albums, and each echo the Americana-rooted progressive folk rock sculpted on Pet Sounds and SMiLE, but with an overlay of the wistful California breezes and acid-age darkness. And Smiley Smile, the almost-whispered reworking of SMiLE, is a treasure; although it is more elegiac than ecstatic, taken entirely on its own it is a sunlight-filled antidote to the prevalent psychedelic memes.

‘I like it when songs go to No. 1, or Top 10 (laughs). That’s my crass commercialism showing!’—Mike Love

Mike Love—and by extension, Bruce Johnston—shouldn’t have to spend his whole freaking life apologizing because he’s not Brian Wilson. Mike Love loves the Beach Boys, too, and he’s been waving their flag for 54 years. See, we don’t beat up Pink Floyd because their certifiable genius, Syd Barrett, only stuck around for an album and a half, do we? The Beach Boys kept on going. Deal with it. f***, celebrate it.

This summer there are two versions of Brian Wilson’s dream out on the road. I’ve seen both. On his solo tour, Brian Wilson surrounds himself with a large and gifted band that reproduces his majestic vocal and instrumental landscapes in exacting and vivid glory; but as wonderful as the show is, Brian’s actual participation in the proceedings does not seem strictly necessary, and that makes the whole thing a slightly odd endeavor. The Beach Boys (Love, Johnston, guitarists Scott Totten and Jeff Foskett, bassist Brian Eichenberg, keyboardist Tim Bonhomme, and drummer John Cowsill) are a tough and engaged outfit with the feel of a real band, plugged into little amps and playing their freaking hearts out to win over the audience. To tell you the truth, I preferred the Beach Boys.

It’s time to stop thinking of the Beach Boys in such black and white terms. The affection between Love and Brian Wilson seems very real, and Love, Johnston, and the Beach Boys are a living memorial to the spirit and friendship at the heart of the group.

“We used to laugh, falling down laughing, and sing,” Mike Love remembers, “Brian would come over to my house and sing Everly Brothers songs or doo-wop songs and we’d learn Four Freshmen arrangements. I never remember a time when there wasn’t music in our family. The first time I remember him singing, was him singing ‘Danny Boy’ in my grandmother Wilson’s lap. So we go back… we’ve known each other all our lives, and there’s a tremendous amount of love and respect and rapport with each other, to the point where inane humor and 100 percent dedication and devotion to music is what we have in common. So if there’s anything that sounds divisive there, well, I have nothing but awe and respect for Brian’s musical abilities, and love for him as a person, as a cousin, as a family member. Strip away all the misconceptions and the divisiveness and that’s how it is.”

On his solo tour, Brian Wilson surrounds himself with a large and gifted band that reproduces his majestic vocal and instrumental landscapes in exacting and vivid glory; but as wonderful as the show is, Brian’s actual participation in the proceedings does not seem strictly necessary, and that makes the whole thing a slightly odd endeavor. The Beach Boys (Love, Johnston, guitarists Scott Totten and Jeff Foskett, bassist Brian Eichenberg, keyboardist Tim Bonhomme, and drummer John Cowsill) are a tough and engaged outfit with the feel of a real band, plugged into little amps and playing their freaking hearts out to win over the audience. To tell you the truth, I preferred the Beach Boys.

Despite the positive things both Mike Love and Bruce Johnston said about Brian, (and VDP) the writer still feels the need to neg Brian to elevate M&B and their band. Fell right into the trap he pretended to avoid.

ETA: I thought Mike's responses were excellent and had no problem with his discussion of himself as lyricist. He has every right to think of himself as good at it. He is.

Despite the positive things both Mike Love and Bruce Johnston said about Brian, (and VDP) the writer still feels the need to neg Brian to elevate M&B and their band. Fell right into the trap he pretended to avoid.

ETA: I thought Mike's responses were excellent and had no problem with his discussion of himself as lyricist. He has every right to think of himself as good at it. He is.

I think this writer’s work was far more problematic than the answers Mike and Bruce gave. Though, the “we’re too busy touring to see the movie” thing is totally lame. Didn’t Mike just post on Facebook that he had time to hang out with Bono and go see a U2 show? They have off days. Mike was also “too busy” to listen to the 3-minute track Brian and Al released earlier this year. It’s clearly not a scheduling issue that keeps him from seeing this stuff.

But I also see a less obvious, less obviously inflammatory pattern continuing here. Simply put: It’s far easier to praise Van Dyke Parks (or Brian Wilson, or whomever) in an interview over and over and over (no pun intended) than it is to actually WORK or BE with those people in an active, continuing artistic/working relationship. Mike talked for DECADES about working with Brian, and yet after less than a year doing a reunion, he chose to walk away from it, with no extant evidence or testimony that he attempted to broach a writing relationship with Brian on road for all those months when nobody (not Melinda or Joe Thomas, etc.) was there keeping him from doing it.

It’s now quite trendy (and not incorrect on the whole) to point out that Mike didn’t hinder “Pet Sounds” or “Smile.” True, he sang on all the stuff he was asked to, and did a great job. That doesn’t speak to how enthusiastic he was about it, or whether he championed the stuff. That doesn’t mean he gets blame for anything. But Van Dyke Parks and Brian Wilson came away from the “Smile” period NOT with the impression that Mike was fine with all the work Van Dyke was doing. It’s actually funny; I could probably formulate a better defense of Mike than Mike himself does when it comes to the VDP stuff. WTF does the accordion on “Kokomo” have to do with how much Mike liked Van Dyke’s “Smile” lyrics? (And, that session was 27 years ago incidentally).

Poor Al.  No mention of him other than appearing in the photo.

Poor Al.  No mention of him other than appearing in the photo.

OK, the writer apparently didn't check his facts about the "Brian-less" albums from 67-73. 

I don't agree with the writer's assessment of Brian's live show, but that's subjective. 

Also, as I pointed out in the BW Forum, if you're going to draw a parallel to Floyd, then Brian is more like Roger Waters than Syd Barrett.  Both Roger and Brian have essentially had to compete against themselves.  In the late 80s, Roger and Brian had solo records stagnate in the charts while their former bands hit new heights (Floyd with a #1 album BB with a #1 single).  Roger and Brian also revisited full albums they wrote with their former bands to generate more interest in their solo careers. 

All that being said, I don't disagree with the point that the writer is trying to make (albeit poorly at times) - Mike and Bruce with their band are out there, performing the classic songs written by Brian.  Maybe it's time to move past all of the bad blood and nick picking and enjoy the band while they're still out there. 

I agree with JCM, it's about the music. 

And there won't be many chances left to see these songs done by the people who were on the records. 

All that being said, I don't disagree with the point that the writer is trying to make (albeit poorly at times) - Mike and Bruce with their band are out there, performing the classic songs written by Brian.  Maybe it's time to move past all of the bad blood and nick picking and enjoy the band while they're still out there.  

I agree with JCM, it's about the music.  

And there won't be many chances left to see these songs done by the people who were on the records.  

The biggest issue I have with this article is calling 1967-1973 a "Brian-less" period and including albums such as Sunflower in that mix.  Brian is credited as sole writer on one track (This Whole World) and co-writer on 6 other tracks on that album.  Also, Brian is all over Wild Honey. 

The article suffers from a lot of hyperbole and it appears that the writer was trying to unnecessarily create an issue and stir the pot.  To their credit, it sounds like Mike and Bruce didn't bite.

This is an interesting idea for an article. Mike was bitter as usual, but Bruce had some interesting things to say

I like how Mike essentially calls himself brilliant with the quote "I think [VDP's] a fantastic, brilliant musician and a brilliant lyricist in a different way than I”.

A songwriter or lyricist can be quantified as brilliant by others, but certainly not publicly by themselves (isn't that something that parents are supposed to teach their kids?); this is example 17893 why so many people have issue with Mike. And I say that thinking full well that Mike has had some totally brilliant lyrical moments. Nobody needs to hear him sneak in an "I am fantastic and brilliant!" in there.

Still...that said...There was an emptiness factor to the Brian concert I saw in Detroit.  From what I've read people have been marginally dishonest about the performance factors contained there-in.  Brian was NOT on what I'd guess would have been his game-plan.  Songs were not delivered as they were originally intended to sound.  Boats were missed...and the 'magic factor' was missing too.  The backing musicians were poised as props instead of how they have been presented over these past baker's dozen plus years...ie: as Brian's band.

Brian just doesn't have the stamina to deliver a full show on his own anymore.  He can muster the where-withall to record a song or two in a day...but all of THOSE songs?  Even with Al, and Blondie and Darian and Matt taking some of the leads Brian was hard pressed to deliver everything he tried to bring to the table.  And I DO NOT blame him one iota for trying.

Matt's falsetto sounds almost contrived...almost cartoonish.  Mixing his voice with Brian's in order to 'make' the notes didn't work.  At least it didn't work for me.

At least with Brian there is the possibility of there being more to come OUT OF THE STUDIO.  Live?  He's past his expirey date.  It's too much for him to do anmore.  I love him as a soul.  I depend on his musical expertise in terms of the soundtrack which has played over these past 53 years of my life.  And...I wish him nothing but happiness and loads of roses to smell.  I am, I'm sorry to say, going to have to go with what I heard in Detroit as the truth.  It wasn't terrible.  It just wasn't up to the Brian Wilson standard.

LOVE: No, I have not.

JOHNSTON: Who has time?

LOVE: We are going to end up doing about 165 shows this year.

JOHNSTON: I’m hoping I can see it on the airplane.

LOVE: Well, I think anytime they spell your name right it’s good for business, isn’t that what they say? Yes, there’s a lot of emotion about it, a lot of talk about it, but it’s a story of an aspect of Brian’s life—maybe not the most joyful one, or the most fun part of his life, but nonetheless… it’s about an aspect of his life.

You, swept away on a trail of Alex Chilton-flavored pixie dust by the legend of wronged Brian Wilson and a belief in the ultimate superiority of all flawed geniuses to any other type of artists, say that Mike Love is a douche

I say that he has kept alive the legacy of one of America’s greatest bands

“By the way,” Johnston chimes in, “he plays a 100-year-old accordion on ‘Kokomo.’ ”

“That certainly gives a lie to this idea that we don’t like Van Dyke,”

1967 and 1973, the largely Brian-less Beach Boys

Mike Love—and by extension, Bruce Johnston—shouldn’t have to spend his whole freaking life apologizing because he’s not Brian Wilson.

Brian’s actual participation in the proceedings does not seem strictly necessary, and that makes the whole thing a slightly odd endeavor.

The affection between Love and Brian Wilson seems very real,

I have nothing but awe and respect for Brian’s musical abilities

Where does Mike come across bitter?

:lol :lol

Yeah and most of the fans who saw Love and Mercy don't have a 40 hour work week, don't have stresses and responsibilities to take care of. Are you fucking kidding me? Just come out and say it: aside from potentially having your name tarnished, you could give a f*** less about the movie.

I’ve sometimes sensed it’s the exact opposite when it comes to the idea of Mike or Bruce not listening to a new Brian album or seeing the L&M movie. Sort of like not looking up your old high school classmates or your ex for fear that you’ll find out how great they’re doing or how much other people like them.

at the end of the day their personal differences are f* all to do with us.

Mike is going out of his way to avoid anything BW is being successful at, whether it be the movie or the singles from NPP. He is a bitter old coot bordering on f*ckwit at times.

Mike does sometimes come across as bitter in interviews. I wouldn’t say anything in this one was particularly bitter. But I do think there’s usually some defensiveness at play. As with this article in general, sometimes that defensiveness seems relatively unprompted, which doesn’t help Mike come off particularly well. I get the sense sometimes that he’s like a politician at a debate who has stopped listening to his opponent as his opponent talks, and is writing a bunch of counterarguments down based on what he assumes will be said about him. Then, he goes into his counterargument even though he’s countering a number of points nobody was making in the first place.

Bullshit.  What a 'pile'.  Once 'it' goes public and in an interview intended to reach us via air-waves or in print it has everything to do with us.  What a cop-out.  If ANY of them want to be assholes in private...it's not my business.  Once they reach out and touch me with it?  I'm IN on it.  Sure they haven't seen the movie yet.  I'll finish the way I started.  Bullshit.

Don't rant at me – go confront Mike, he's the one you have the issue with.

:lol :lol

Yeah and most of the fans who saw Love and Mercy don't have a 40 hour work week, don't have stresses and responsibilities to take care of. Are you fucking kidding me? Just come out and say it: aside from potentially having your name tarnished, you could give a f*** less about the movie.


Geeeee I wonder why. http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,22399.0.html (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,22399.0.html)


Great legacy we're keeping alive here folks - https://youtu.be/u5AhcMhze1Q?t=36 (https://youtu.be/u5AhcMhze1Q?t=36)


So that plane bill you stuck Van with after the SIP sessions was what? A birthday present?


What an absolute joke of an article.

Smiley Smile - all Brian Wilson involvement
Wild Honey - all Brian Wilson involvement
Friends - most if not all Brian Wilson involvement
20/20 - half Brian Wilson involvement
Sunflower - most songs have Brian Wilson involvement
Surf's Up - probably the greatest sequence of 3 songs to close out an album, all Brian Wilson tracks.
CATPs - Side one full of Brian tracks
Holland - record company wouldn't touch it without a Brian track, and it became a staple post-fun-era Beach Boys song.

If you're going to act all-knowing and pretend to have some opinion people should listen to, please for the love of god do some damn research before you release an article like this.


Nor is he ::) perhaps he should spend a little bit of his time apologizing to Brian Wilson for all the tactless comments he's made throughout the past 3 years about his cousin.


If I didn't want to see the full trainwreck of this article, I would stop reading this right here. Firstly, Brian fans go to see Brian fucking Wilson. Why? Because we GET IT. We get that the music isn't about a cheerleader grinding up on a guitar player. We get that the music isn't about blowing up beach balls to hurl around the audience. It's about fucking art. It's about spirituality. It's about closing your eyes and being taken to a place (oh well Mike or Bruce wouldn't understand that reference would they). We go to Brian shows to see the artist, to hear him sing the songs he made. When I saw Brian at Philly, he gave the biggest most genuine smile, and f*** it, that right there made my night. I could've left right then happy as ever.

It may be slightly odd to you, Tim Sommer, but to fans who feel spirituality in that music, we see what Brian adds to his shows and see nothing odd about him sitting there singing his tunes.


Tell us again, Mike, your cousin is what? Oh your words exactly: "overweight and out of shape, and he doesn’t seem to pay much attention" Love and affection to it's fullest, ladies and gentlemen.


Tell me the interviewer asked if Mike has listened to No Pier Pressure yet! Oh wait, the interviewer probably didn't want Mike to go on a 10 minute diatribe about people being afraid to fly and potential autotune hazards on a song he hasn't heard yet....

What a trash article. Perfectly showcases the ignorance and utter depths Mike apologists will go to make Mike look like a real great guy.

I wonder if people gave Brian this much crap for taking decades to listen to POB?

I knew someone was gonna bring that up.

Firstly, I don't think that there was some weird bad blood and certainly no competition or ego issues behind that incident, if indeed a delayed listening is what in actuality happened. Secondly, Brian was going through such tough emotional stuff at the time that if it's true, I can't exactly blame him... Yet I do think everyone including Brian absolutely should have supported Denny more at the time. It's very, very unfortunate that they didn't. Al verbally has admitted to regretting such. I'll bet Brian privately regrets it too.

Bottom line is that it's apples and oranges to compare the two...

Do I think Mike is going through tough emotional stuff too? Probably yeah. But it seems quite rooted in ego/jealousy and that's the primary, unfortunate difference IMO.

Can someone please contact Al, Blondie, Ricky and David asap and ask them if they've seen the movie yet and if not why are they so anti Brian Wilson?

Exactly. And in recent years Brian has spoken up about his love for POB. I think his reddit or Smiley Smiley Q&A mentioned his favorite song from it. Mike Love on the other hand is currently touting how much "awe and respect" he has "for Brian’s musical abilities" yet hasn't commented or publicly supported his cousin's most recent album.

Have any of those BB members ever shown an ounce of what could be construed as jealousy directed toward Brian?

Mike's the only other living BB standing who really had any kind of pivotal role in the film. For him of all people, one would think, it would be more surprising to see him not want to see the film. Especially since he was involved (wasn't he? at least peripherally via Stamos) in another BB film for TV, which shows that he clearly has an interest in seeing the BB story represented on film.  I guess Mike only wants to see BB films that he himself can influence the final cut. I admit that from Mike's POV, it must be very weird to see a film portraying one's self that is not a film which the person being portrayed (Mike) had any say about creation-wise, especially when that person is a controversial figure, and the events are very controversial. Yet despite some people finding fault with some portions of the story and/or some events, I have yet to hear anyone really blast the film for saying that Mike was treated unfairly. I would honestly, really, truly like to know what he thinks of that.

Again, if he has reasons that he doesn't want to see the film, or reasons why if he has seen the film that he doesn't like it, fine. It would be cool to at least hear his honest opinion on why that is, instead of some paperthin excuse(s).  Maybe he thinks the masterpiece An American Family was the last word on the BBs story on film, and that it could not possibly be improved upon? I'm not even kidding...

Did Mike (or any other BB) ever comment on An American Family or Summer Dreams at the time of their releases?

Ultimately, Mike probably feels muzzled on publicly saying what he feels about the film, either based on having seen it (and not admitted to such), or via some friend/family of his having seen it and communicated to him how it was, and especially how he was portrayed. One of those two scenarios has surely played out. But no person is buying the "not enough time" excuse, and it's an insult to every fan's intelligence to even try to use that excuse. 

Or maybe having lived around Brian's mental illness up close for decades, he's not in a rush to kick back and watch a movie on it for a couple of hours no matter how tastefully well made it is. I expect he'll watch it at some point but it may not be #1 on the guy's priority list.

Or maybe having lived around Brian's mental illness up close for decades, he's not in a rush to kick back and watch a movie on it for a couple of hours no matter how tastefully well made it is. I expect he'll watch it at some point but it may not be #1 on the guy's priority list.

What do these guys do while travelling between gigs?  I KNOW for a fact that Mike does radio interviews in order to set up upcoming shows.  Cool.  Maybe some phone calls and texting?  OK.  Lookin' out the window?  Maybe.  How about a 4 hour game of I spy with my little eye?

Not so much.

There is no way that someone would make a video of the movie available so that they watch it on the bus.  They fly to every show?  Doubtful in this day and age.  They have time to watch a 2 hour movie.  IF they want to warch it.

And you know that for any number of reasons there is some interest in seeing it.  I really don't 'buy' that they haven't made time to check it out or to listen to No Pier Pressure.  Human narure suggests that they are not being truthful here.

The question is...why?

Is it mandatory that everyone see and love L&M just because some of us do?  Judging by past bio pics I am not shocked to hear they haven't rushed out and canceled previous commitments just to catch a screening. Maybe they intend to watch it on DVD in September.  They aren't really accountable to our speculations about imaginary scenarios and motives.

Mike is not the problem in this one. It is the interviewer.

The biggest issue I have with this article is calling 1967-1973 a "Brian-less" period and including albums such as Sunflower in that mix.  Brian is credited as sole writer on one track (This Whole World) and co-writer on 6 other tracks on that album.  Also, Brian is all over Wild Honey. 

The article suffers from a lot of hyperbole and it appears that the writer was trying to unnecessarily create an issue and stir the pot.  To their credit, it sounds like Mike and Bruce didn't bite.

I'd offer the opinion of some fans who thought it was a little odd that when asked directly this spring what Mike thought of Brian's new single The Right Time, he said he hadn't heard it but hoped there wasn't Autotune on it. Knowing Brian his whole life, being a blood relative no less, and also knowing that Brian genuinely cares about reactions to his music and what people think of his songs (and that he likes to make people happy through his music, put smiles on their faces, etc) that Mike could have spared three minutes of his day and listened to the song instead of giving it the brush-off publicly and inserting what some would read as a passive-aggressive dig into the comment on top of that. It was so simple, and basic courtesy between musicians and family: Take a listen to your cousin's new single, if it didn't appeal to him just say "I heard the song and I'm happy to hear my cousin making new music, I wish him the best" or anything along those lines. That's something you might say publicly if you were concerned about not hurting feelings. Instead, we have what looks like Mike not bothering to take 3 minutes to listen to the song but still taking a chance to get in a dig inserted into a public interview.

Or maybe my perspective is just royally f***ed up at this point.  

It would seem at least fair to see the movie or eat that burger before casting doubts on it based on what others have said. Maybe those opinions and biases were already in place before the film even got a final edit. That would be a damn shame. Sort of the equivalent of saying "I haven't been to the restaurant to try the burger yet, but I heard they're made from low-grade processed beef and I hope they don't use frozen patties instead of fresh ingredients!" Boom.

Mike may simply not want to relive a very  painful memory. He lived it once, why ask him to relive a very scary  time. First and foremost, Mike is family, and he and Brian grew up together with good times and memories. If Brian  and Melinda found the film emotionally  jarring enough to drive alone for two hours, how would Mike react. If I were him, I would be so bothered at a visceral level  that I would not know what to say to Brian when I next saw him. I would be afraid to see my cousin and fearful of saying something that would hurt him.

I'd offer the opinion of some fans who thought it was a little odd that when asked directly this spring what Mike thought of Brian's new single The Right Time, he said he hadn't heard it but hoped there wasn't Autotune on it. Knowing Brian his whole life, being a blood relative no less, and also knowing that Brian genuinely cares about reactions to his music and what people think of his songs (and that he likes to make people happy through his music, put smiles on their faces, etc) that Mike could have spared three minutes of his day and listened to the song instead of giving it the brush-off publicly and inserting what some would read as a passive-aggressive dig into the comment on top of that. It was so simple, and basic courtesy between musicians and family: Take a listen to your cousin's new single, if it didn't appeal to him just say "I heard the song and I'm happy to hear my cousin making new music, I wish him the best" or anything along those lines. That's something you might say publicly if you were concerned about not hurting feelings. Instead, we have what looks like Mike not bothering to take 3 minutes to listen to the song but still taking a chance to get in a dig inserted into a public interview.

Or maybe my perspective is just royally f***ed up at this point. 

I'd offer the opinion of some fans who thought it was a little odd that when asked directly this spring what Mike thought of Brian's new single The Right Time, he said he hadn't heard it but hoped there wasn't Autotune on it. Knowing Brian his whole life, being a blood relative no less, and also knowing that Brian genuinely cares about reactions to his music and what people think of his songs (and that he likes to make people happy through his music, put smiles on their faces, etc) that Mike could have spared three minutes of his day and listened to the song instead of giving it the brush-off publicly and inserting what some would read as a passive-aggressive dig into the comment on top of that. It was so simple, and basic courtesy between musicians and family: Take a listen to your cousin's new single, if it didn't appeal to him just say "I heard the song and I'm happy to hear my cousin making new music, I wish him the best" or anything along those lines. That's something you might say publicly if you were concerned about not hurting feelings. Instead, we have what looks like Mike not bothering to take 3 minutes to listen to the song but still taking a chance to get in a dig inserted into a public interview.

Or maybe my perspective is just royally f***ed up at this point.  

It's a lose-lose situation. If he said he heard it and then offered some criticism, he would have gotten backslashed just the same. Likewise for the movie; if he said "I saw it, here's my review" he'd get destroyed anyway.

Didn't Mike also say in the same breath that he was sure The Right Time would be great and later wished his cousin the best in all of his professional endeavors?

What about the words guitarfool suggested?  "I heard the song and I'm happy to hear my cousin making new music, I wish him the best."

We already went over that diatribe (a.k.a. "interview") Mike gave to David Beard several months back. His comment on "The Right Time" was a near-perfect textbook definition of "backhanded compliment", and his reference to "Autotune" reeked of having sought out (or having been fed) negative criticism of Brian's new single/album, which is particularly distressing considering he couldn't be bothered to listen to the track.

As I said back then, it would also be a backhanded compliment if Brian or Al or whomever was asked about a new Mike single and responded, "I haven't heard it. But, assuming Mike doesn't make call-back references to old Beach Boys titles or make his millionth reference to surf and sand, I'm sure it'll be great."

Mike literally said he was sure the song is great and wished Brian all the best in all of his professional endeavors. All of your concerns were already satisfied.

What about the words guitarfool suggested?  "I heard the song and I'm happy to hear my cousin making new music, I wish him the best." He could easily have commented on Love and Mercy without saying anything controversial too had he seen it. He could have said something like "Cusack and Dano were very convincing' or "It brought back some painful memories  but I hope it does well. Some excellent acting.." It's easy to word these things diplomatically if you want to.  He could easily have said "I've only seen it once - I really need to see it again to take it all on board" as well which would have given him a let-out clause if he later decided there was soemthing to which he should have taken exception.

Little review here...there was a huge backlash over the C50 concert Autotune CD, which was widely considered inferior compared to the amateur YouTube videos taken during C50.  And an inference of "backhanded" appears to be more of a projection of those who have no use for the touring band and who continue to dysfunctionally remain stuck in the three year old mire of the expiration of C50. I have never heard a bad word uttered about Brian by Mike since 1967.  Why should he start now? It would be inconsistent. 

So maybe you should be Mike's spokesperson, putting words in his mouth? Seriously.  Telling him what he should say?  

This film was not easy to watch.  And might be even more so for a family member...and you are going to give him an "escape clause?"  

Why is it not possible for this person to make a statement that is not twisted and modified to align with your position. You don't like him.  Say that.  It is just easier.  

Nah, I think Mike’s comment about “The Right Time” was a backhanded compliment because of the content of Mike’s comment. I don’t think anyone has brought Mike’s touring band into that particular discussion. His touring band has nothing to do with his comments about a Brian single.

As for having “never heard a bad word uttered about Brian by Mike since 1967”, I’ll let others if they so choose produce a myriad of quotes that, unless one has a very loose definition of a “bad word”, would indicate that pretty much all of the guys in the band have offered a “bad word” about each other at some point over the years, post-1967 (and does the comment above then suggest Mike *was* offering bad words about Brian pre-1967?). I was just reading a 1979 Bruce interview where he talks about how awful he thinks Mike’s “Brian’s Back” song is. Al has referred to Mike’s band as “imposters.” Dennis has that quote about the MIU Album f***ing up Mike’s karma. Brian has downplayed the original BB band in relation to praising his own band in past years. Mike has made negative references to Brian being “medicated” (in just the last few years). Carl, well, I suppose I’d have to think a while longer on that one. He usually stayed above the fray. Even Dave mentioned in his book with Stebbins that Bruce was kind of weirding him out at various points.

Point is, it’s beyond hyperbolic to suggest Mike has never said a bad word about Brian. And that’s okay, as a general rule that is. Nobody is not allowed to have a bad word about someone at some point. Sometimes it’s deserved, and/or constructive. And sometimes not deserved, or justified.

Of course I'm not telling Mike what he should say. I'm suggesting what he could say if he wished to be polite to his cousin. I'm not even suggesting it to him - I'm suggesting it to a group of fans who are trying to defend Mike's reticence about his cousin's recent album and the film Love and Mercy. Mike's words about NPP have been described as mean spirited. I'd go along with that.

Hyperbole is not necessary. Having seen them well over 100 times, in whatever lineup, since 1967, that is my experience. I'm speaking about the public forum of a concert.  I don't mean interviews, or other "armchair" analysis.

Of course I'm not telling Mike what he should say. I'm suggesting what he could say if he wished to be polite to his cousin. I'm not even suggesting it to him - I'm suggesting it to a group of fans who are trying to defend Mike's reticence about his cousin's recent album and the film Love and Mercy. Mike's words about NPP have been described as mean spirited. I'd go along with that.

I think that’s the problem. Nobody here has been talking about solely (or at all for that matter) Mike’s commentary about Brian *during* a concert. This has been, for pages now, a discussion about interviews.

In my opinion, pointing out that Mike doesn’t say negative things about Brian only during his concerts is kind of setting a weird, low, arbitrary bar. And, again, it has nothing to do with the conversation at hand. It’s not much more germane to the topic at hand (which is what Mike says *in interviews*) than pointing out that Mike loves kittens.  

The refusal to see or hear any of BW's new projects could have an insidious factor as well. Mike thinks he is BW's equal and therefore makes their projects "great". However without Mike on board, he thinks these projects suck and are not worth his time.


Examples: Pet sounds, SMiLE, all BW solo albums, and movie.

If Mike is concerned about seeing Love and Mercy because of how upsetting it might be to him, surely he could say so to any interviewers asking the question. He doesn't even need to go into detail, just make it clear that he feels it is a private matter on which he doesn't wish to comment.

But I repeat, if Mike is so sensitive on his cousin's behalf, why doesn't he show this level of sensitivity in his interviews?

Why do you think anyone is owed an explanation?

But they won't and that is the problem in a nutshell.

Maybe Mike has heard NPP and seen L&M and just thought they sucked and is avoiding hurting Brian's feelings by pretending he hasn't?

Telling people it is a private matter on which he doesn't wish to comment is hardly an explanation.

The second part of my message doesn't require an explanation either but without one we can all draw our own conclusions about Mike's level of sensitivity on the subject of his cousin.

Yeah, but would Mike want the world to know it sucked. This is a guy that told the world in the 1992 issue of goldmine that BW88 wasn't good in harsh words ????  ;)

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned...and I'm not ripping Mike or Bruce or anything but I'm certain that BD or DVD screeners do get sent to critics.  And surely if Mike or Bruce, or an assistant, asked for a screener of L&M they would be sent one.

Just for arguments sake, suppose such a request was made, and met with no response ? What then ?

Smile Brian - I just happened to buy that CD last week. On sale, of course. $3.99.  Guess who is the fellow partner? The bad guy in the movie.  And it wasn't that long after I saw Brian for the first time, in the Landy cameo.  Seven of eleven were Landy credits.

And whatever copy I bought has "Dr. Eugene Landy as Executive Producer." Stamped in large print on the bottom of the CD. Letters and font larger than Brian Wilson.

And, I have no doubt the comments were written under duress..."Dr. Eugene Landy for saving my life and inspiring, overseeing and fighting for me and this entire album." Copyrighted 1988 Sire Records.  

So Mike's wrong? After seeing Love and Mercy?

Ah right. So the song "Love And Mercy" is worthless and horrible too, because Gene Landy was around when it was done. I see that it's okay to trash that album to you.

So "Let It Shine", "Meet Me In My Dreams Tonight", "Rio Grande", all trash to you.

Ah right. So the song "Love And Mercy" is worthless and horrible too, because Gene Landy was around when it was done. I see that it's okay to trash that album to you.

So "Let It Shine", "Meet Me In My Dreams Tonight", "Rio Grande", all trash to you.

Just for arguments sake, suppose such a request was made, and met with no response ? What then ?

I'm not at all sure how the nuts and bolts work when it comes to BRI. But in order to approve/disapprove a soundtrack directly related to The Beach Boys wouldn't Mike Love have to watch the film in question? So if Pohlad and the producers wanted to release a soundtrack (which Polhad has expressed numerous times he has wanted) wouldn't Mike be given ample opportunities to see the film or be sent a copy if such a viewing opportunity didn't arise?

Just throwing this out there...Bruce has heard NPP and actually had good things to say about it when I spoke to him in May.

I find it a little funny how upset everyone got over Mike's "autotune" comment.

"I haven't heard the song yet, I am sure with Al's voice and hopefully no autotune, the song will be great."

Isn't this precisely what fans on this board were saying in anticipation of listening to Brian's album? If anything, Mike's comment could be viewed as a nod to this board.

Where the dickens do you get this ludicrous notion that Mike - or anyone,in fact - can approve/veto the soundtrack ? It's simple - you pay the appropriate licensing fee for the songs you want to use, and you can use them. I guess if said songs were used in an unsavoury context, or ridiculed, you might have a case for withdrawing the license. Mike has no say in how the movie turns out, any more than Alan, Bruce, Carl's estate, unless they feel they've been defamed. Brian, being the subject, and authorising the movie, is of course a different case entirely.

There IS a movie soundtrack. From everything I know about its (non)release, it needs to be signed off on by ALL the partners of BRI.
As of April 23rd, 2015, that has not happened.

The work by Atticus Rose is brilliant and important and breathtaking. High art from high art. Why would anybody choose not to sign off on that?

People need to know that the rounding of third began long ago.
How one finishes is how history remembers them.

There's a right side and a wrong side to history.
(I'm both amazed -- and sadly used to -- the people choosing the wrong side.)

I think Mike was making a dig at Joe Thomas for the horrific 'tuna job he did on TWGMTR and especially the C50 Live cd.

I was referring to an actual physical release of the soundtrack. According to Howie Edelson:


And it would seem obvious to me that Mike would want to see the film before signing off on such a soundtrack release (in case he felt the movie cast an unsavory light on the Beach Boys or any other reason)...thus I would be hard pressed to believe that Pohlad, the producers didn't give Mike ample opportunities to view this film.

What Howie said - and l defer to his far superior knowledge - was true three months ago: that Pohlad has stated much more recently a soundtrack will be out soon after the movie's release indicates to me that all hurdles have been cleared. As ever, l stand to be corrected, especially if it gets the music out.

While I agree there were instances of autotune that were less than stellar, do you really think he'd be saying that kind of stuff if the reunion went well, if TWGMTR went to #1, the "room" happened, and they continued recording together? Do you really think it's not sour grapes since Joe Thomas was the guy who was playing interference for Brian, and in effect prevented the magical "room" scenario from happening?

No, I don't have a portal into anyone's brain, but doesn't logic dictate that is more likely the case? Sour grapes against Brian (and Joe, I suppose) of a rather large order. It reminds me of Jeff Beck, who when things didn't go the way he wanted them to go on the tour, all of a sudden THEN he goes and talks smack about Brian in interviews. If autotune was such a big problem for Mike, one would think he'd have said something during the 2012 reunion in a group interview setting. But Mike saves his insults and backhanded compliments for when Brian's not in the room.

Horse dooky! TWGMTR debuted at #3, no small feat for a Beach Boys album. I doubt Mike had much say production-wise regarding the album. Brian & Joe were calling the shots. If I were Mike I'd be upset, no, very upset with the way the live album turned out. Prior to this album, I didn't really get all the autotune complaining that was going on in here and elsewhere, but the Live album convinced me of it's evil influence over Joe Thomas.

What Howie said - and l defer to his far superior knowledge - was true three months ago: that Pohlad has stated much more recently a soundtrack will be out soon after the movie's release indicates to me that all hurdles have been cleared. As ever, l stand to be corrected, especially if it gets the music out.

First - they are family. Family in business. They share a parent who is a sibling to one another. Family bonds confer privacy.


Second - it isn't "sensitivity" as much as "sincerity" which is ascribing a connotation of falsehood.  So even if Mike wishes Brian well, you are calling him a liar.  I guess that is the problem.  You are questioning his motivation, as insincere rather than "sensitivity" which is an "awareness of the feeling of others."

As I have already written, he could just tell any interviewer that he didn't wish to comment. Stating that he hasn't seen it because he is too busy makes most question whether he has an ulterior motive. This isn't prejudice against Mike - if you had a cousin who had a film made about you and didn't go to see it people would inevitably wonder why not.

The family thing - there are many who have family members, even families which are in business together, and yet are not close. I don't know how close Mike and Brian are and only those of their personal acquaintance probably know the whole truth.

Secondly, anyone who is arguing that Mike may be too upset by the harm caused to Brian to watch Love and Mercy, must surely doubt his sincerity and sensitivity when he seems not to mind reminding people of things that Brian did wrong decades ago.

As for your suggestion of Love and Mercy being played at a reunion, here we go again. I'm sick of the word 'reunion'. Love and Mercy is not and never was a Beach Boys' song. This is Brian's song. The Beach Boys have had so much from Brian. Some things are for Brian and his excellent band.

I will disagree a touch there; if there was indeed another reunion, it wouldn't be a bad thing for Love & Mercy to be played (unless of course, Brian didn't want to play it, which is his choice)... I say this because beautiful, personal solo songs like Heaven have been played with the BBs in the past.

L&M doesn't fit into Mike's fun,fun,fun brand while goin to the beach and Pisces brothers does. ::)

Secondly, anyone who is arguing that Mike may be too upset by the harm caused to Brian to watch Love and Mercy, must surely doubt his sincerity and sensitivity when he seems not to mind reminding people of things that Brian did wrong decades ago.

As I have already written, he could just tell any interviewer that he didn't wish to comment. Stating that he hasn't seen it because he is too busy makes most question whether he has an ulterior motive. This isn't prejudice against Mike - if you had a cousin who had a film made about him/her and  you didn't go to see it people would inevitably wonder why not.

The family thing - there are many who have family members, even families which are in business together, and yet are not close. I don't know how close Mike and Brian are and only those of their personal acquaintance probably know the whole truth.

Secondly, anyone who is arguing that Mike may be too upset by the harm caused to Brian to watch Love and Mercy, must surely doubt his sincerity and sensitivity when he seems not to mind reminding people of things that Brian did wrong decades ago.

As for your suggestion of Love and Mercy being played at a reunion, here we go again. I'm sick of the word 'reunion'. Love and Mercy is not and never was a Beach Boys' song. This is Brian's song. The Beach Boys have had so much from Brian. Some things are for Brian and his excellent band.

Not only that, but Mike Love is the same man who just a few weeks ago called the Evan Landy Daily Mail article an interesting read. THE Evan Landy article where not only does it drone on for pages about the abuse Brian endured during his time with Landy, but Evan was also given a pulpit to say that Landy had Brian's best interests at heart.

If Mike is too sensitive about the subject of the Landy years why the hell is he reading and commenting about a multiple page article about the Landy era? Come on guys. You'll scrape the bottom of the barrel, seemingly scrape through the bottom of the barrel, to defend the guy. Hilarious :lol

Let's not forget who had court ordered control...his Daddio.

And calling something "interesting" does not necessarily mean "agreement."  I seem to recall in the movie, in the scene where Brian and Melinda jump off the boat, Evan's character seemed fearful saying something like, "SH**...my dad is going to kill me!" More power and control to Gene. 

This Mike defending is getting tiresome, the people who are defending him to death have a vested interest in him. The main evidence of this is the M&B fanboy website BBB where most of them post as well.

Let's not forget who had court ordered control...his Daddio.

And calling something "interesting" does not necessarily mean "agreement."  I seem to recall in the movie, in the scene where Brian and Melinda jump off the boat, Evan's character seemed fearful saying something like, "SH**...my dad is going to kill me!" More power and control to Gene. 

The weird bit where Mike cited the Evan Landy article (which he clearly DID take the time to read; he can’t listen to a three-minute Brian/Al track, but he can read a borderline-tabloid piece sympathetic to Evan and Gene Landy) was, well, weird. “Interesting” may not connote strong support; but it does not connote a condemnation either. And while Evan Landy and Alexandra Morgan and anybody who was there can certainly be pried for some pertinent and interesting basic information/data about those years in Brian’s life, to not fully condemn a piece written to defend (mostly via ignoring the bad stuff) Eugene Landy was a bad move on Mike’s part.

Please read Howie Edelson’s to-the-point post about all of the people in that Landy circle, *including* Evan:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,21876.msg521413.html#msg521413

That the hurdles have possibly been cleared is great news. My point still stands that I'd be hard pressed to believe that Pohlad/producers didn't give Mike ample opportunities to view this film, especially if the release of the soundtrack possibly hinged on it.

That Howie post makes sense.  Landy held the cards.  A judge decided to give him control.  Try to follow the progression. 

Evan might have "known" but what kind of power did he have?  None.  Was there a law or statute in place to report abuse of a patient in California at the time that would have helped report this, even anonymously? I don't know.

What I do know is there is a tendency to goad balanced fans, who have grown up with and have seen this band, for 50+ years, into hating the Touring Band and all it represents, on this board.  It is non-productive.  Some of us are unmoved by the hate and will continue to support the music, in any form it takes. 

I heard from a pretty reliable source that a vinyl version of the soundtrack was coming out on Black Friday.

Once again, the “touring band” is not a part of the conversation nor the current round of posts. It’s about Mike and his interviews, attitudes about Landy, getting around to watching the L&M film, etc. You have attempted several times to drag the “touring band” into the conversation, nobody else.  Nobody is disparaging Mike’s band by disagreeing with something he says in an interview. 

Interesting, though I would hope a CD release would be in the offing as well. Not sure how much they tend to push vinyl on “Black Friday” (versus, say, “Record Store Day”). I dig vinyl, but frankly it’s a pain in the ass in some cases and only sounds better if you have a pretty good, not inexpensive rig set up. A digital release would be acceptable, and much more convenient. But hopefully an actual CD would materialize. (And please, no “vinyl only” or “iTunes exclusive” tracks either, if at all possible.)

Hey Jude - this is a constant anti-Mike barrage and negative attitude on this board.  It is damned if he does or not. His reflections, are sought out, then roundly attacked.  He cannot win.

The title of the thread concerns "lesser" (whatever that means) Beach Boys.  That would include some members of the Touring Band.

I agree the live CD sucked due to autotune, so much so that it remains the only BB album that I refuse to purchase. But again... I am not buying the idea that all of a sudden Mike had a revelation that Joe waved his hand and gave us autotune in a poor manner. I think he was looking for something critical to say, something that could be said without that comment being quantified as outright "false", and he found it, because to give an outright compliment without a backhanded insult just seems not possible and against his nature... unless of course that product was written in a "room", in which case you can bet your bottom dollar that he'd not be saying the same autotune criticisms.

Find me a quote where any of Brian's solo material is complimented by Mike without being accompanied by a backhanded insult.  Maybe something exists, but I sure haven't read/heard it...

Granted, it's one thing if we all say something to the effect of wishing the autotune was held back a bit as fans on a messageboard... but one would think that a bandmate and relative would not try and slip in jabs like that, out of good taste and simply being a bigger person.

And BTW, #3 apparently was a small feat for a BB album, according to Mike who poo-pooed that chart placement after the fact. Those grapes are so sour.

Wrong. Mike can indeed win by simply not saying backhanded compliments, and by simply saying some nice words without adding in dressed-up bile. Guy just needs to learn the definition of tact.

And "backhanded" is a value judgment. That is someone's personal interpretation.  

Ok, fair enough. Can I ask you what YOU personally think is an example of a backhanded compliment? Can you type out a made-up example (not even necessarily related to this band) of what would qualify (to you) as one?

"You throw ok, for a girl."

Yeah, that is indeed a backhanded compliment. No doubt.

And what I'm hearing from these interviews with backhanded compliments is essentially saying to Brian "you make ok music (when I actually take the time to listen to it), for a guy with a time and drug-ravaged voice who is out of shape and medicated/controlled, and whose music is deficient of the talents of brilliant Mike Love". I do not believe that to be a giant leap from the various interviews we've heard, either.

That's basically a Mike Love quote mixtape.

But I don't want to see Brian and his band turned into something else either.

What Howie said - and l defer to his far superior knowledge - was true three months ago: that Pohlad has stated much more recently a soundtrack will be out soon after the movie's release indicates to me that all hurdles have been cleared. As ever, l stand to be corrected, especially if it gets the music out.

I would pipe up here to say that I think you're somewhat mistaken. Howie posted three months ago. The interview with Bill Pohlad that you cite is here (http://consequenceofsound.net/2015/06/interview-director-bill-pohlad/) and was published June 2, not "much more recently." Indeed, it's from nearly two months ago.

These were his words: "We’re working on it now. Unfortunately, these things get complicated when you’ve got a lot of bits from different songs and different eras, but we’re working through it, and it should be out soon after the film."

While he seems to promise a soundtrack, that's far from a ringing declaration. Given that the movie has been released in the U.S. and the U.K., and given that it is now, indeed, "soon after" the film's release, I think it's fair to note that no soundtrack has been announced or scheduled, or even shown up as an Amazon Germany listing.

Thus, it's not a far hop to say it's not coming out, and likewise that it's most likely Mike (the most jealous, vengeful and litigious individual in BRI at the moment) who has decided to deep six it. He hasn't had qualms about hiring Brian's band members out from under his nose, trashing his solo album and cozying up to the son of the man who abused BW for a decade, so preventing a soundtrack release is par for the course of his recent actions.

Sorry, but that's the way things look without evidence to the contrary.

I would pipe up here to say that I think you're somewhat mistaken. Howie posted three months ago. The interview with Bill Pohlad that you cite is here (http://consequenceofsound.net/2015/06/interview-director-bill-pohlad/) and was published June 2, not "much more recently." Indeed, it's from nearly two months ago.

These were his words: "We’re working on it now. Unfortunately, these things get complicated when you’ve got a lot of bits from different songs and different eras, but we’re working through it, and it should be out soon after the film."

While he seems to promise a soundtrack, that's far from a ringing declaration. Given that the movie has been released in the U.S. and the U.K., and given that it is now, indeed, "soon after" the film's release, I think it's fair to note that no soundtrack has been announced or scheduled, or even shown up as an Amazon Germany listing.

Thus, it's not a far hop to say it's not coming out, and likewise that it's most likely Mike (the most jealous, vengeful and litigious individual in BRI at the moment) who has decided to deep six it. He hasn't had qualms about hiring Brian's band members out from under his nose, trashing his solo album and cozying up to the son of the man who abused BW for a decade, so preventing a soundtrack release is par for the course of his recent actions.

Sorry, but that's the way things look without evidence to the contrary.

A soundtrack IS coming out.

A soundtrack IS coming out.

One Mike article, 5 pages and counting.  I can't wait to see how many pages the future "Mike's Book is Out" thread in 2016 will generate.

I think Mike was making a dig at Joe Thomas for the horrific 'tuna job he did on TWGMTR and especially the C50 Live cd.

I would pipe up here to say that I think you're somewhat mistaken. Howie posted three months ago. The interview with Bill Pohlad that you cite is here (http://consequenceofsound.net/2015/06/interview-director-bill-pohlad/) and was published June 2, not "much more recently." Indeed, it's from nearly two months ago.

These were his words: "We’re working on it now. Unfortunately, these things get complicated when you’ve got a lot of bits from different songs and different eras, but we’re working through it, and it should be out soon after the film."

While he seems to promise a soundtrack, that's far from a ringing declaration. Given that the movie has been released in the U.S. and the U.K., and given that it is now, indeed, "soon after" the film's release, I think it's fair to note that no soundtrack has been announced or scheduled, or even shown up as an Amazon Germany listing.

Thus, it's not a far hop to say it's not coming out, and likewise that it's most likely Mike (the most jealous, vengeful and litigious individual in BRI at the moment) who has decided to deep six it. He hasn't had qualms about hiring Brian's band members out from under his nose, trashing his solo album and cozying up to the son of the man who abused BW for a decade, so preventing a soundtrack release is par for the course of his recent actions.

Sorry, but that's the way things look without evidence to the contrary.

Mark my words: even if it's proven that this assumption is in fact 100% correct, and if the soundtrack never comes out, the same handful of people will defend Mike and think it's just dandy that he made the soundtrack evaporate for all times.

Have you considered the complications are to do with the various record labels/publishers involved?  I doubt Mike Love is holding it up.  He stands to make money from it!

Exactly. That's what I'm reacting to, and nothing more.

Pohlad says a soundtrack is ready.

Howie says it needs to be signed off on by all members of BRI.

We know that Al and Brian would be on board. Carl's estate would presumably assent as well, for financial reasons. That leaves Mike.

As much as some here would like to suggest that this is about conspiracy theories or some such nonsense, the quotes are the quotes. BP wants the soundtrack out, and says it's ready. Howie says BRI hasn't signed off on it.

It's not out and it hasn't been announced. So ... where does that leave us, given what we know?

Carl's estate would approve for financial reasons but Mike wouldn't?  Is that what you're saying?

Howie says BRI members need to sign off on it.  Is this because BRI own the recordings? I assume they do.  When did his happen?  This would mean that at some point Capital gave up ownership of the Beach Boys catalogue which would not have been a smart move.  Who knows when this happened?

My understanding is that BRI has to approve any use of the Capitol-era recordings if they are not the released mixes/masters. That would include re-mixes and other use of multi-track elements. Capitol/UME owns the recordings still. The only thing the label can do without BRI approval is release the same masters they did in the 60s. That's why we see endless hits compilations.

Such as... ?  And who, pray, has been threatening to turn Brian & his band "into something else" ?

As l recall, C50 was Brian, his band in toto, Mike & Bruce, two of their band, Alan and David. And most everybody in the BB cosmos was very happy with that. I sure as hell was.

Ang, Brian is the Beach Boys. It will happen.

I guess that means there could have been lawsuits flying due to the multiple wrong versions/mixes issued on the 1990 1st-edition CDs of 15BO and MIU, right?

One wonders what would/wouldn't be released if the decision to release material rested solely on any one member's shoulders.

you can make your own soundtrack once you get the blu-ray

a homemade soundtrack may suffice if the alternate fails to exist

I'm guessing it some boring practical/financial thing that has nothing to do with permission from Capitol or BRI.

That's what you want. It isn't what I want. And for the time being at least it doesn't seem to be what Brian wants.

If the powers that be are reading, I feel it's important to state this is not the opinion of the majority of the board.

Please reunite.

fair dinkum, startBBtoday, but to which of the different opinions are you speaking ?
you quote both.

i edited both C50 DVD's together, KDS, and it is almost acceptable. It requires many
cuts and edits though.

- cheers

If the powers that be are reading, I feel it's important to state this is not the opinion of the majority of the board.

Please reunite.

Even if the majority of BB and Brian Wilson fans would like a reunion, this isn't a democratic process. It's up to those who were original Beach Boys. And if any of them don't like it, that is their decision.

You are speaking for the majority? You KNOW that, do you? And what about those who don't post on this MB but do post on other boards or not at all?

Even if the majority of BB and Brian Wilson fans would like a reunion, this isn't a democratic process. It's up to those who were original Beach Boys. And if any of them don't like it, that is their decision.

it was C50 and Doin' It Again, KDS.  It really does work !

- you get lot's of songs, and lots of commentary from the principals !

yes, the edit is 27 tunes + plenty of commentary.  There is missing material as you note, KDS,
but it was making the best of a bad lot !

that Back Again from Japan would add (i think) to the mix, and might better replicate C50.

No need to get your shorts in a knot, not gonna happen anyway.

That said, if you canvassed the BB bboards, the most likely outcome would be a wish to see a full reunion in 2016, for the obvious reasons: outside of The Bloo (and even there...) your oft expressed view that what's best for Brian is that he has nothing whatsoever to do with his former bandmates - that is, 2012 excluded, precisely what he's been doing since 1996 anyway - is distinctly a minority opinion.

My opinion isn't important. The opinions of the original Beach Boys are what counts. If the minority includes Brian then it won't happen. If it doesn't include Brian, then it may.