The Smiley Smile Message Board

I was reluctant to start this for a while at first, but after seeing a lot of Pink Floyd (and to a lesser extent, Syd Barrett) fans on this forum, I've changed my mind :)
Overrated: Wish You Were Here
Underrated: The Final Cut (although Meddle and A Saucerful Of Secrets come close)

I agree with both. I love 'Wish You Were Here', but it kind of pales when compared to those around it (Dark Side, Animals, Wall, Cut). The middle tracks don't really do much for me - Welcome To The Machine, Have A Cigar and the title track are just OK. Love Shine On though, incredible pieces of music.

And 'The Final Cut'....oh man, I could write books on that album. It blew my 16-year old mind, I used to listen to it alongside Dark Side each night while in bed with eyes closed, before going to sleep. I still think it's one of the most intense, atmospheric, captivating, emotionally-powerful and knee-weakening albums ever recorded.

But generally speaking, I really think every Pink Floyd album (until Waters left, that is) has something to offer, in its own unique way. I'm mainly a Waters fan, but I couldn't do without any Floyd "era" before 77-83 either.

Over Rated: Division Bell...
Underrated: Adam Heart Mother

Overrated: Animals (Perhaps the most pretentious album Roger Waters ever made)
Underrated: The Final Cut

Underrated: Obscured By Clouds.

Just might be the best thing they ever did. Best playing, best singing, best songs, best everything but sleeve :p

Overrated: ...... Piper! ....... (ducks and runs)

Overrated: "The Wall". Everyone thinks it's the best album ever, however, I disagree. I mean, I think it's an okay album, but when you look back at the whole Pink Floyd catalogue, The Wall sort of comes out of nowhere. A once very democratic band now dominated by one writer and session musicians. Everyone says "Another Brick In The Wall Pt. 2" is a "classic", but in reality, it's one of the most un-Pink Floyd songs out there (catchy, disco? Not words used to describe Pink Floyd). Parts of the album are very good, but some of it just drags along. Throw in Roger Waters massive ego thing goin' on at the time (see "The Trial"), and you have an overrated album. Props to the stage show though. Overblown, but cool.

Underrated: "More". Now here's an album. David sings all the leads, and he does it well. Half of the album is very mellow ("Cymbaline", "Green Is The Colour") and the rest is straight up rock ("Nile Song", "Ibiza Bar"). Considering that this was one of their first efforts without Syd, this is a pretty solid effort. A nice album to listen too on a quiet night at home. One of my absolute favorites. Even "Quicksilver".

I agree completely but want to point out that The Wall was MOSTLY performed by Dave, Nick, Rick, and er, Roger on most of the vocals and some bass. Another Brick In The Wall 2, for instance is just Dave, Nick, Rick, Roger, with the engineer on roto toms. Most songs are just the four Floyds with the exception of Mother (Jeff Pocoro on drums) and obvious songs like Bring The Boys Back Home and The Trial  that have a full orchestra, and Is There Anyone Out There with Lee Ritnoir on classical guitar, who Dave brought in because he didn't think he was right for it himself.  The idea that Rick played almost nothing was perpetuated because all involved were pretty pissed at him for many a year over his lack of enthusiasm or coke habit, or whatever, but Bob Ezrin and others have since noted that he played on a lot more of the album than people think, and there are also books with session details/breakdowns and Rick's all over the album.

Overrated: Every album after Piper. Underrated: Piper, Madcap Laughs

Have you heard them all?

Saucerful could have used a lot more Syd.

Syd stuff is basically a different band. If you like the Syd band but dislike the next 20 or so years of stuff, fair enough, but it doesn't mean the post Syd band is overrated.

A bit off topic, but smiley member soniclovenoise has some excellent remix/fantasy albums he posted on his blog of a "what if" Syd stayed in Pink Floyd until 1970. They are excellent and worth a perusal by any early Floyd/Syd fans.

http://albumsthatneverwere.blogspot.com/2013_02_01_archive.html

I think the rest of the Floyd would agree but "a lot more Syd" wasn't exactly possible, was it?

The Wall is over rated. It's OK but I like all the albums before it better.
Piper still isn't given enough credit. Just amazingly good.

Most overrated: THE WALL
Most underrated: PIPER AT THE GATES OF DAWN

I like Saucerful a lot, it has elements of Syd's songwriting, but it also had some of the group pushing outwards, exploring new territories. However, I would love the album even more if Syd was more involved (or if it had Syd's other songs from this period.)


Piper is an odd album. It's the album that no one knows about, despite being the debut from one of the biggest bands of all time. It's like Pink Floyd's biggest secret.

TONS of people think (or at least say) Piper is The Floyd's best album. David Bowie has even said it. I don't think it's underrated at all. Any Floyd fan knows the Syd story and at least highly respects Piper even if it's not their personal favorite.

I really do think Obscured By Clouds is the most underrated/forgotten because it falls between Meddle and Dark Side, and Meddle is generally acknowledged as the big ramp-up to Darkside....

Oh, no doubt that big music fans know of it's existence.

But, let's say I was to walk around and ask people if to name all the Pink Floyd albums they knew. How many people would I have to ask that question until someone said The Piper at the Gates of Dawn? How many The Dark Side of the Moon's or The Wall's would I get comparatively?

What I meant is that the early Floyd stuff really gets overshadowed by those later albums.

Depends on what part of town you're in....

There are also people who will just answer "Syd Barrett rules! Pink Floyd sucks otherwise"

It's amazing the number of conversations I've had with people - granted AVERAGE music fans, NOT like us - and we'll talk about groups we like. And, somebody will mention that they like Pink Floyd. I immediately ask if they ever heard of Syd Barrett, and am usually met with a "no"! :o >:(

Yeah, I've had that happen too...

When I lived in San Francisco, I met many a Syd obsessive who dismissed the rest of Floyd, and I live in a pretty hip part of LA where it's all Syd. Syd. Syd..... But these are the exceptions, I guess.

It's funny how it went from overpraise of Roger to overpraise of Dave and now it's fashionable to criticize Dave as a guitarist and how Roger is now the nice guy..... With Rick and Nick left out of the conversation as usual.

Overrated - Dark Side of The Moon & Wish You Where Here. I just don't consider them quantum leaps from their earlier 70s stuff.

Underrated - Atom Heart Mother or Obscured By Clouds. I love the title track of the former and as Pinder has already mentioned Obscured seems to get lost in the shuffle between Meddle and the massive breakthrough of Dark Side despite having some fantastic stuff on it. It's also Nick Mason's favourite Pink Floyd album.

Wow, I didn't know that about Nick Mason!  ..... His playing is great on Obscured By Clouds in particular. More loose and "normal" band-ish: propelling/driving the songs rather than just a piece of the overall picture/puzzle as it is on the post Dark Side stuff. Maybe them just going in and hashing out some tunes without some overarching concept was freeing to him?

Also, the fact that Obscured By Clouds is a soundtrack album has causes casual Floyd fans to not seek it out thinking it's just background music or something.... Same with More.

I thought I read somewhere that Nick Mason said that "Animals" was his favourite Pink Floyd album...

Maybe Nick's pulling a 'Brian Wilson'? Next he'll be claiming Ummagumma is his favourite...


That in a nutshell is pretty much why the post Dark Side Floyd is much less fun for me. I recall reading that Obscured By Clouds was basically them getting the call "Do you want to make the music for this film?" and them doing it on the fly. It's conceivable that they may have even made it during the time they were putting Dark Side together. "Stay" is one of the best things they ever did.

Don't forget Zabriskie Point! (although, admittedly there is some crap on that one)

Ha! Very well put. And like Brian said about Friends (his favorite album of that moment): Obscured By Clouds is an album you can just put on without having to get into some specific mood or head space. It's the closest the Floyd ever came to sounding like a few humans. It's a very sensual and sunny album. Not sunny as in positive, but more like a laidback, lazy, yet intense day out in the sun. Everyone's playing is relaxed yet off the hook, and there's probably more Rick on this one than any other.

Overrated: Dark Side Of The Moon
Primarily because of "Money", which to me is Pink Floyd's most overrated song

Underrated: Atom Heart Mother
Primarily becaue of "Fat Old Sun", which to me is Pink Floyd's most underrated song  :)

The Gnome>The entire DSOTM album

I don't think there is a overrated Floyd album. Most underrated: Atom Heart Mother & A Saucerful of Secrets.

Overrated: Wish You Were Here
It has never felt complete to me. Everyone I know loves it, but I just can't get into it. Shine On part 2 is too long for my taste, as is Welcome to The Machine. I'd probably like it more if there were another song on side 2.

Underrated: Animals
My favorite Floyd album, this thing is one of the most satisfying albums I have. I love the idea, and really the tone of the album is my favorite. Moody.
Favorite track:
Sheep...or Pigs?



I agree on this one. I adore that song.

I don't see how anyone could find "Piper" overrated. Just my opinion though

I agree on this one. I adore that song.
[/quote]
Ever hear the live version? It kicks the piss outta the one on AHM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttPNilF3v5A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttPNilF3v5A)

Overrated: The Piper at the Gates of Dawn (stereo)
Underrated: The Piper at the Gates of Dawn (mono)

That's an interesting opinion. Just wondering, why do you think that?

H'mm. Let's see...

It seems to me that the mono version has always been regarded as second best (if at all). i suppose the thought behind this is that psychedelic music, particularly of the spacy variety, requires a degree of depth that mono can't provide. That said, to my mind the stereo version adds not one jot----quite the reverse at times. Just compare the mono and stereo versions of "Interstellar Overdrive". I think Norman Smith must have been legless when he produced the stereo version----removing the organ at the beginning (what on earth are the advantages of doing that?), to say nothing of that primitive panning at the end. And yet if you look for a single-album version of TPATGOD it will always be in stereo...

What's my coat doing on the floor? ;=)       

It might be that because OBC and More were commissioned film scores that they necessarily have less of Waters' often cynical vision stamped on them----and are more enjoyable as a result (for me at least). Generally though, I feel that the Floyd took themselves too seriously after Syd's departure. My two eurocents...   

Under-rated = Animals
Over-rated = Wish You Were Here

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/39/WishYouWereHere-300.jpg/220px-WishYouWereHere-300.jpg)

Wish You Were here, to many the glittering diamond in the Pink Floyd catalog, had to do the impossible -- follow the greatest album ever made (Dark Side Of The Moon).  There was no way it could have lived up, much less surpassed its predecessor.  It's an awesome album, but given their new-found mass appeal, I think they went a little too lethargic and withdrawn for this one.  I have a hard time believing that your average music fan, drawn in by all the lovely, mysterious hooks of Dark Side -- would have had much interest in this somber, introverted album.

There's also a more appealing, fresher sound to the live versions of this material (on the Immersion set) that doesn't exist on the studio album.  As a result the studio versions sound a little claustrophobic to me, which, in addition to its somber introversion, makes it a fairly closed-off listening experience.

In the end, Wish You Were Here requires more from the listener than Dark Side does.  Dark Side seems to refresh the listener and deepen our understanding of the universe -- its symmetry, harmony and mysteries.  While Wish You Were Here (as the title suggests) leaves us to wallow in a single aspect of it less appealing outcomes.  While it's not fair to doom the album because of its proximity to one of mankind's greatest musical achievements -- it's hard to resist the comparison.

I really like the gloss of Dark Side.  It enables it to project this cauldron of colliding extremes, battles full of intensity and fierceness, yet able to keep the listener far enough away from the molten dangers, and safely cradled in a serene calmness.  Wish You Were Here, painfully avoids such glossy showmanship as it puts the listener dead-center in the middle of someone's tormented personal melodrama, something that The Wall does better, with more flare and fantasy.

I can see why a lot of people would pick The Wall as the most overrated but, to be fair, that album is a pretty brilliant and wild accomplishment.  In simple terms, The Wall should have fallen flat on its face, but it stands firm... that is, until it's brought down on its own.  Built up and torn down.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/74/Pink_Floyd-Animals-Frontal.jpg)

Animals on the other hand, is unfairly overlooked and underrated.  It doesn't seem to carry the weight (eh-hmm) that Dark Side, Wish You Were Here and The Wall do.  Hence, it was seemingly passed over for its own Immersion set.  Definitely overlooked.

Nevertheless, conceptually and thematically, Animals picks up where Dark Side left off -- attempting to again illuminate the ongoing battles we face in life.  This time, however, the battles are less universal, nebulous and ethereal.  Animals is touch more personal and human, honing in on what makes people tick.  It's a rather leisurely stroll through some sort of personality study, but it does it all with some of the best music the band would ever create.

You can hear some of the sparseness that would begin to dominate their later albums, especially on The Final Cut, but there's still a nice layered sound here to feast on.  And there's still no indication of full-on, broadway rock-opera to come.  I believe many of these songs were well baked into Floyd live shows for years (Raving and Drooling) and as such, seem to encompass the full range of the Floyd "sound" more than anything else they did during their mega-superstar years.  It even sounds like it could have pre-dated Wish You Were Here.

Overall, Animals is just a fun, easy listen.  It's not particularly demanding, like Wish You Were Here and feels somewhat like a more natural follow up to Dark Side.  It does seem like there should be more here... but what is here is quintessential 1970s Pink Floyd.

Animals, to me, is their very best non-soundtrack album.....

I find Piper overrated in that for so many people, it's soooooooo good as to nullify all that came after it. It's a fantastic album, for sure, but for me, I greatly prefer the singles they put out during the Syd era.

Yeah, but "Waters' cynical vision", as you like to call it, didn't fully arrive until Dark Side Of The Moon - the first album where he wrote all the lyrics by himself. There may have been bits here and there before (on things like 'If' and maybe 'Echoes'), but overall, the pre-'73 albums are pretty much group efforts.

I think the reason people like the two soundtracks is that they're almost as good as the studio albums, despite being side projects. I, for one, love Obscured By Clouds just as much as Meddle.

That's a good point..... Even a song like Free Four from OBC with lines like "You shuffle through the gloom of the sickroom, and talk to yourself as you die" don't quite have the same impact as say Don't Leave Me Now because the song is a jaunty and giddy rocker.

While I also prefer the Barrett-era singles over Piper, I'm still convinced that Piper is one of their best albums, and is in no way overrated.
Just my opinion.