The Smiley Smile Message Board

Mike talks about intended plans that were changed by others during TWGMTR project.

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/5650662/mike-love-upset-over-direction-of-beach-boys-reunion-album-tour

This is in billboard, Mike is pushing his story of what happened in C50 hard.

"I talked to Brian about a year before we even started doing any of the recording for (the album)," Love explains. "He and I talked about doing a project and he was excited about doing it, but it never came to fruition at all."

I'm guessing he's referring to the original idea that they just re-record some hits. Well, they did DIA and it kicked off a tour and an original album, and he's still upset it wasn't a lazy retread album instead? Yeesh.

Mike doesn't seem to have much of a problem swinging his weight around to get his way, was he really bested by the likes of Joe Thomas? Boy, that's embarrassing. Out-maneuvered by a mullet! He wasn't ALLOWED. Mr Bigshot Executive Producer, and he wasn't even ALLLLLLOWED. Oh, my heart bleeds.

 I guess he thinks this is a good tactic to take in the press, Brian under the sway of these terrible forces who won't allow him into a room with his beloved cousin who was the McCartney to his Lennon, but no! They treated him like chopped liver! Oh the humanity. Well, maybe next time if things go even MORE Mike Love's way, this terrible injustice can be avenged and they can just do an album of their old material to salute Nascar or something. None of that suicide-inducing melancholy drivel!

Can someone just get their wives in a room and sort this sh*t out?

Mike seems afraid to move on from the 1960s BB era.

blahblahblahblahblah......

Yeah, Mike makes it clear once again that there will be no future Beach Boy lps unless he's allowed to write songs from scratch with Brian. No just being assigned lyrics to write for  nearly finished songs, he wants instead to be a full creative partner.

I have some sympathy for his position, but where was this full partnership stipulation when they recorded Pet Sounds? Smile? Friends? Sunflower? Surf's Up? Carl and the Passions? Holland? Love You? Even back in the Mike/Brian early 60's glory days, Mike was only just one of Brian's partners (although the most important one, granted).

Someone else may have brought this up recently but  I was flicking through Brian's old autobiography a few days ago and I thought that the following passage was interesting -


I know that the book has very little credibility with anyone, but given that Mike's openly expressing a similar problem now, I'd guess that it's likely to have been an issue for Mike for quite some time.

Mike's a bit of a bastard, but boy -- hard not to take his side vs. a ghostwritten Gene Landy! Even with the baseball caps factored in. I'd want to stuff him into a broom closet if he started giving lyrical advice.

That's how they wrote Good Vibrations though.  Mike should see that as a winning formula.  Brian has a song pretty much finished and then Mike comes in with his contribution.  Boom.  #1 single.  What's the problem?

The Landy era was a whole different story, so don't draw too many parallels.

But if Brian wanted to write with Mike, it would have happened. I'm guessing Brian wasn't too keen on it, because (and i speculate and generalise here) because Mike wanted to push a fun-in-the-sun angle and Brian wanted his more downbeat stuff on there (which he'd been saving since 98).

Seems Brian used his usual passive-aggressive techniques to get others to be the fall guy(s) here and he makes out squeaky clean.

That's what I don't get either. It's not like Mike has much to contribute at the composition stage for feels or melodies, can he even articulate what he wants or would it just bog Brian down? I don't see what's so horrible about penning lyrics for some of the most incredible, inventive backing tracks ever recorded. It's a privilege.


It definitely does fit the usual pattern, huh? But it's been a successful one for them. If Mike gets to be boss on stage and run the touring band, can't he compromise a bit and let the Stalin of the Studio oppress the masses at Ocean Way?

It's disappointing to say the least that mike refuses to record as the beach boys unless he's able to write with Brian. But having said that it is true that both he and we fans were led to believe that the album would contain wilson-love originals.

You feel duped? Seems like a typical Beach Boys record to me. Brian with his collaborators, Mike with some lyrical contributions and his archive track. Al with bupkis.

So are Mike's comments targeted towards Joe Thomas, or someone else? I recall Howie Edelson's discussion mid-tour with Mike included Mike raving about how nobody but Joe Thomas could have put the tour together. Mike formed a production company with Brian and Joe Thomas to do the tour. If his beef is now with Thomas, then that itself seems a little bit non-confrontational or passive-aggressive to complain after the fact.

Also, I have nothing but my own guessing to back this up, but while I don't doubt that he had issues with the song writing on the album, I think these comments are partly to avoid discussing the finances of the tour that may not have been to his liking. He has alluded to finances in the past, but won't directly talk about it. Or the ego/power issues that could be at play as well.

Duped was way too strong - I edited it to "led to believe" which I think is fair and accurate

If what Mike claims is true, that it was agreed to a year in advance, then I can see him having issues and taking exception of what went down. He still did it anyway, but I can see taking a stand the next time around. You have to assume that he had certain expectations going in that did not come to fruition. He has 3 co-write credits out of 11 tunes, plus one of his own. Even with that it is only 1/3 of the album, not 1/2 or more as probably expected.

Which reminds me of Carl refusing to further work on the Paley tracks. Did he leave because he found the tracks not good enough or because he was excluded from any creative input? I'd understand it if it was the latter, because that stuff was good. Way better than SIP, where Carl did participate although he probably wasn't given a chance to participate creatively by Mike either. So we can be happy that Mike did participate in album and tour after all.

Mike should just find someone else to write with and make solo albums.

I guess the first impression I got would be why is there still the desire to keep rehashing the past rather than looking ahead to future plans, if there are any even being considered.

It's confusing in a way to see this issue come up again, as it is past history by now. So where are the folks on this board posting the "kicking a dead horse" emoticon to greet this interview?  ;D

The too bored and disinterested (yet willing to post dozens of times about it) brigade should be in shortly.

Imagine how much dead horse battery will go on when that biopic comes out! Phew.

Or people could just stick to their word to Mike.

Exactly.   :deadhorse

There's something amiss here. Loaf alluded to it:

IF we are to accept the Joe Thomas account of the sessions, the ever-so-wily Brian Wilson was sitting on tracks from '98, approached Capitol on his own volition, and basically closed the BB's deal on his own. That's what Joe reported, for what it's worth. If that DID happen, then how in the hell does that leave room for sitting down at the piano with his cousin Mike? A deal was struck on preexisting tracks, and even with a few more to follow - that doesn't sound like a brand new soup to nuts Brian Wilson / Mike Love creation. It sounds like a Brian Wilson creation with (selected) input from Mike and the boys.

Why is that a problem? Mike's deluding himself if he still thinks he's got the moxie to create an entire conceptualized album. Leave it to the professionals, like Brian, Joe and now, Don Was.

Exactly again.  :deadhorse

But isn't, as I understand the story.  Brian had the song written, lyrics by Tony Asher. Mike rewrote the lyrics and, as Mike states, came up with the "I'm diggin up.....". But they weren't sitting in a room and wrote GV from scratch.

Exactly.  Which is pretty much how Mike wrote his lyrics for That's Why God Made the Radio as well.  Brian had the songs worked out with Joe Thomas and asked Mike to rewrite the lyrics. 

I'm with Mike....

Wouldn't you all much rather love OR HATE a full beach Boys album of Brian/Mike songs rather than some Joe Thomas, Jon Bon Jovi project with a little help from Brian and Mike?

Just think about it.

As a musician and attempted songwriter: what's the motivation for going into a project and devoting valuable time/effort if the situation stinks from the get-go? ..... There's no motivation.... Sucking it up because the folks on the smileysmile board will talk crap about you, isn't enough...... And they'll talk crap about you no matter what you do, so.....

"Radio" was a lot better that I thought it would be. I wouldn't mind more made that way if they gave Al more to sing and eased off the autotune. I'm not that impressed with Mike's lyric-writing these days and prefer the sad stuff that he thinks is uncommercial. Even when it involves Bon Jovi!

Try to tell me that if Bon Jovi was Mike's idea, he wouldn't be crowing about it.


Good point, and it all worked out fine in the end so I'm not that bothered about the situation. Works for me! More recordings like "Radio," no Mike Love lyrics, more Al. Bring it on!

The boys from Hawthorne are back on Capitol. The guys who aren't from Hawthorne are at SeaWorld. Unlike the touring situation, in the studio the ball is in Brian's court. If Mike doesn't want to play, his loss.

By all accounts, Brian was the primary author of the songs on the album.  To call his contribution "a little help" is pushing it.  Brian's best work has always relied on collaboration, whether it be from Mike, Gary Usher, Roger Christian, Van Dyke Parks, Tony Asher, Jack Rieley, Steve Kalinich, Andy Paley, Scott Bennett, etc.  On this particular project, it just happened to be Joe Thomas and I thought the songs for the most part were pretty decent.

And judging from the majority of Mike's songwriting for the last two decades, maybe it's for the best that his creative input was minimal.

Jon Bon Stamos?

Has a certain ring to it!

Damnitt! Get Brian and Mike in a room with a piano and then get Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce, Dave in a studio with brian and a trusted engineer!!!! That's all that's necessary!

That's an interesting - and honest - question for many Beach Boys' fans; not all but many. And, I include myself in that group. While I like TWGMTR a lot, and I'm overall pleased with the way it turned out, there is something that isn't quite right, or satisfying, or "pure", or whatever, about the album. I can't quite put my finger on it, and I certainly wasn't expecting something as pure as 15 Big Ones or Love You, but I don't feel the soul of The Beach Boys in the album. There are obviously several reasons for that which could take up 87 pages on this board. And, again, I do have an appreciation for the album... :police:

He wrote lyrics to 3 songs. We don't even know how much time he had to write for them. You're being judgmental without enough proof.

While I like everything on the album, I do see your point. Except for the vocals it sounds more like a Brian solo album than a full-blown Beach Boys album.

There's no bell curve grading where I adjust my opinion to a lyric depending on how quickly it was written. "Do I like it" seems to be the deciding factor there rather than if the lyric is written in 30 minutes or less, the song is free.

It's nice having Mike in the harmony stack and singing a few leads, but he hasn't been up to much lyrically in decades. Does anybody really think he's due for a creative rebirth and bursting with ideas? Eh.

(http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1405/5133491184_179d9a1925_o.jpg)

 ;D


Honestly, TWGMTR isn't my favourite BBs LP by a long shot (some songs are cool, overall production is horrendous) but an album penned exclusively by Brian & Mike might have been even worse. Why do people think shoving those 2 in a room in the 21st century would result in 60s-style greatness? ???

Baywatch Nights, muthafuckas!

Anyone who's ever been in a band fully understands the un-funness of some guy sending you a tape with a song title and asking you to write lyrics that your bandmate had some apparent contribution in writing.... Or it's like showing up to work and finding some other guy at your desk and asking you to go do your job out in the hall....somehow.

Thing is, Mike's much more of a "guy in a band" than Brian is or ever was. This is a distinction that should be taken into account. Same with Dennis and Carl, if there were still around.

Because it would be even worse in a more authentic way..... Sometimes that's enough

When it comes to the TWGMTR album the proof is in the pudding. The Brian stuff is good to great, the Mike stuff is dire to crap ... Spring Vacation, Beaches in Mind and Daybreak Over the Ocean are, if they weren't so bad, forgettable.

Whoever it was - Thomas, Melinda, Kaos, Capitol, Dr Evil, a passive aggressive Brian or the ghost of Dr Landy - they did the right thing by the album and the band's legacy by locking Mike out of the room.

BRAVO! DO IT AGAIN!

Who knows? Brian has said that he can go years with no inspiration to come up with good compositions. When the inspiration does come, he still writes a pretty damn good tune. You base your opinion on what you think you know, but not on what you actually know. We won't really find out until Brian & Mike actually sit down and write together. As they say, "the proof is in the pudding". :)

Have we forgotten that the last couple of albums where Brian and Mike co-wrote together extensively were the MIU Album and Keepin' the Summer Alive?  It's not like they're a consistently winning team as songwriters.

We've seen the pudding, eaten the pudding, had the leftovers. I like where Brian (plus support system) is at these days, Mike not so much. I don't think "Beaches in Mind" or "Spring Vacation" would've been improved by having Mike in the room. What, is he gonna suggest a better chord sequence? A middle eight that will blind you with it's celestial beauty? He's just gonna rhyme moon with spoon and clock out.


Who is quibbling about Brian's track record? Speaks for itself. Capitol didn't sign Mike Love for new albums, they've had plenty of pudding.

I'm really glad they are recording more and can't wait to hear the new stuff! Especially the instrumentals. A great direction to go in, especially with Jardine wordless vocals. Woulda been nice to have some bassy dit dit dits in there from Mr Dead Eyes, but I guess not.

I like authentic. Love You is my favourite BBs album. But bad is bad. It's all an idle thought anyway since an album solely written by Brian Wilson and Mike Love in 2012 would never have seen the light of day, I fear. At least not via Capitol Records. It would never have met the desired 'standard'.

I would disagree wholeheartedly with you on this. But again, on the first two, how much time was Mike given to write? Did he like the music given to him? See, we don't know a lot of information about how this all shook out. Shoot, Brian actually wrote the words to the Spring Vacation chorus. Personally, I think a lot of that album was rushed. They had a lot to do considering the tour started in early Spring.

Easy money, ain't life funny is the only good part of the song! Still makes me laugh. Typical Brian!

Funny, typical, but not a great lyric. If you're gonna rip Mike, then Brian's has to bear a little too.

It may be, in Mike's mind, deep down, about his songwring legacy.  One more Brian/Mike written album to cement them historically as an all time great songwriting duo.

Problem is it would most likely be worse than "Goin to the Beach". Unless they had a Rick Rubin kind of guy overseeing the whole thing. But when was the last time Brian and Mike sat down and wrote an album? Wild Honey.

Mike just won't accept Brian doesn't want to do it. Or just can't do it. Brian doesn't  have it in him, nor does he want to rehash fun in the sun yet again. Mike should not take it personally as, at this point, Brian needs multiple musical collabotators to be productive. Best Mike can hope for is a song he can add lyrics to.

Exactly. I dig that line, too. But if Mike Love had authored that fans like us would probably put it in the same category as the "Spring Vacation" lyrics.

You guys need to admit, if the songs that have Mike's name (buried in the credits) on TWGMTR didn't have his name in there, you'd defend them with your life as great!

My guess is Brian did VERY VERY VERY little work on TWGMTR.....  Sure, he sat at the console for a few pictures and video clips, but Joe Thomas and Jeff, and the guy holding the autotune knob called the shots.

It's very simple really. If Brian wants to do a another Beach Boys album, then he now knows what he has to do to make it happen. If not, Brian records solo. I'm not sure it's that simple, but if each guy knew this after the tour, then we know where Brian stands now, don't we? ;)

True, but look at how that album turned out. In my opinion, which seems to be he popular one around here, it's a fantastic album.

I realize a considerable amount of time has passed since then, but I still would enjoy an album by Wilson/Love more than I would an album by Wilson/Thomas/Love/Bon Jovi. Easily.

Take me out of that equation, please. ::) I've never thoroughly checked the TWGMTR credits - all I know about the songwriting situation on that album comes from interviews with the principals and this board. There's maybe one or two really great songs on TWGMTR (which still suffer from a lot of the production decisions) and I frankly don't care how much Brian (or Mike) had to do with them. If I knew for sure that Mike had written, say, "Isn't It Time" all by himself I'd give him credit for that. Why shouldn't I? ???

But that's a whole different discussion...

Damn Brian Wilson fans being Brian Wilson fans! The nerve! Don't they understand that Mike Love is equally responsible and co-genius? Surely history if not thousands of forum posts will right this wrong. Nice distraction from the interview, tho.

You're right, Oregon River Rider... It's a legacy thing isn't it. He's got an uphill battle ahead of him with the movie and book coming out, it'll be fun if they time it to have battlin' books! A shame Stamos doesn't have the juice any more to make a competing movie. Seeing as the young generation look to him as a kind of spiritual leader, he really could've done a lot of the heavy lifting.
 

Brian needs multiple collaborators and Mike needs to accept the reality of it. And after 50 years of Brian doing just that, all of a sudden that doesn't work for Mike? If Mike was a cool head and chill, maybe Brian would pick up the phone and say let's write a song. But Mike is a bit of a jerk (I met him privately, up close and personal-the reputation ain't for nothing). I wouldn't want to write with him! Can't blame Brian for wanting harmony at this point in his life.

So this interview is saying again, between the lines, that Mike ended the C50 because of his ego.

I hear Mike is trying to line up Jimmy Page to co-headline the 2014 BB summer tour.  ;)

Just passing on a bit of reality that should be faced...... Much like you guys are doing...

I don't think Mike wants the entire universe to revolve around Brian/Mike writing together 24/7 all year round, but WHEN THERE'S A NEW BEACH BOYS ALBUM BEING MADE......... well then.....

The reality is that The Beach Boys who want to work together on albums are working together on albums. Fine by me! Let Mike sulk to Billboard and to cub reporters at the county fair about not getting enough control and blame Big Bad Joe Thomas and THOSE PEOPLE AROUND BRIAN for him not being creative any more. I'm sure that's what's stopping him from writing great songs and getting his crappy solo albums released. Joe Thomas.

Sorry, but after numerous "Mike stuck to what they contractually agreed to" posts from folks who seem fine with Mike nixing more reunion activities, this assertion doesn't hold water. Mike agreed to the project based on whatever terms he did. I highly doubt there were any promises (and certainly no contractual obligations) for Brian/Mike co-writing sessions. In fact, the evidence we have seems to indicate the form the album would take was known WELL in advance of even finishing recording it, and probably before the other BB's even began work on it.

It's a lost cause with you guys because you worship Brian to an almost unhealthy extent, and it most certainly makes Brian uncomfortable.....

I'm sure ego is one component. It could be Brian's too. I wouldn't take much stock comparing your relationship with Mike, and Brian's relationship with Mike. I'm sure it's complicated, but as cousins (non-Beach Boys) it could be a loving relationship. Family and business can be strange bedfellows.

I doubt very seriously that Mike is looking or expecting to write 12 songs with Brian. What I do think that he is looking for is at least a few songs written together beginning to end. Just speculation on my part, though.

ALMOST unhealthy? Screw that, totally unhealthy. I'm posting to a Beach Boys forum instead of working, arguing with someone who advocates for the healing power of John Stamos. It's totally, totally unhealthy and Brian should stay far away from all of us.

Insulting me is still not going to transform Mike Love into a brilliant lyricist in 2013, tho. He's a good frontman but there's a reason Capitol didn't snatch him up greedily when C50 exploded.

 That isn't Brian Wilson's fault or his geeky fans. Peter Bagge totally had it nailed with that "the straight male nerd's Judy Garland" line, but it still doesn't transform Love into McCartney.

You make some important points. By the accounts we have, Brian secured a deal for a BB's album without any of the other BB's, and this deal was secured based on songs Brian had worked up with Joe Thomas.

It's likely some recording sessions for the backing tracks took place before the other BB's were even involved. Long story short, the other BB's seemed to know the nature of the album before they got involved and before they signed on. Surely there was some room to maneuver (thus we got some Love lyrics, one Love track flown in from his solo album; an obvious concession), but the overall nature of the album that Capitol gave the greenlight to was Brian/Joe Thomas tracks with the BB's singing on them.

I still think this songwriting business is just a method for Mike to discuss the larger issue he has, which is that other songwriters, and whatever else it is that keeps Mike from being able to get Brian "alone" in a room, is indicative of the machine that been surrounding Brian since late 1982. It has always been there, for better and worse. I think the issue is less about being able to write tons of songs alone with Brian, and more about pointing out the lack of ability to do that as indicator that "others" have to be involved to work with Brian. The whole BB organization has known this for a loooong time, this hasn't changed in ages.

:lol



Dito.

There is a reason for that. We buy music with lyrics, not just lyrics. Can't remember my last album of poetry readings. ;) As for brilliant lyricist, again you are judging before the work is put before you. You can't call the guy out when there are no 2013 lyrics to discuss.

I'll happily take him over (post 1970) McCartney any day no matter what the sanctimonious opinion of the Brian-fellaters is.

Terrific! I'm sure he'll have lots of solo albums ready for you to purchase soon, then. Free of that terrible burden of Brian Wilson weighing things down with melancholy gloom and doom... and that damn troublemaker Al Jardine! Always goin' on about Cottonfields. Yeah yeah yeah, it was a hit overseas, Al, we know.


I don't need to discuss hypothetical lyrics, I already dislike everything he's written since the late 70s with the exception of Male Ego. That's enough for me to judge his "current output," I should think. I'm willing to give him another 10 years to impress me, I guess. BUT NO MORE, Mike Love! Cool head, warm heart, empty wallet!

No, but at least I have tons of shitty McCartney albums to try and suffer through..... Driving Rain was damn good though.

Ontor: I thought by now you'd realize I'm just trying to piss you off into working some photoshop magic  >:D

I don't get it. Brian composed the music for Spring Vacation and Beaches in Mind as much as for Summer's Gone. Would you like 'em more if Joe had written the lyrics?

Ha! It's hard for me to take this Mike/Brian stuff personal... It's like Mac/PC in Hawaiian shirts. I just like the music and am curious to see how these Brian/Al/David sessions turn out...

Also... not really a McCartney fan. For some reason the boys seem to need him to validate themselves, tho. All that money, success, and longlasting careers and they still both sound so desperately insecure. Maybe if Murry and Milton weren't such dicks, this would've worked out differently. On the other hand, maybe they wouldn't have had the drive to fight so hard!

Perhaps they would like "Rainy And Windy Chicago Streets In Mind" a bit more....

Then stop being a fan then. Buy Brian solo albums to feed your habit. You really sound more like a Brian Wilson fan than a Beach Boys fan and no amount of discussion will change that. Funny, I have always disliked Mike, but I never reviled the guy like some you guys do. I always wind up defending him, because some of you are so irrational with always wanting to bury the guy. Mike is no saint, but this band is so dysfunctional it's a wonder any of them get along with each other.

Haven't some of the worst Beach Boys lyrics in the last 30++ years been written solely by Brian???

Worst as in: I still love them, just like I adore Mike's bad lyrics too.

Like, 'Well oh my, oh gosh, oh gee, she really send chills inside of me"? Funny, but not worthy of being called great lyrical content. :)

Undoubtedly, which is why some of Brian's best stuff has been when he has a collaborator that writes good or at least better lyrics. So if both Mike and Brian presently don't write the best of lyrics, why in the world would the best solution be to have them write together at the exclusion of anybody else?

And yet, those three songs you mentioned (and you can even throw in the "Do It Again" remake), reach me or touch me as much as the supposed "deeper" stuff on the album. I know they're not supposed to, I'm supposed to dismiss them. They just seem more genuine or honest or really Beach Boys' songs.

I don't think Mike's motivation is based entirely on money or legacy or ego. Well, maybe ego, because Mike has to look at Brian's lyricists/collaborators over the last 25 years and think, "Hey, I coulda done as good as them..." Or better.

Maybe that initial agreement between Mike and Brian was for re-recording older tunes. The recent Brian Wilson relies much more on his collaborators to write his/the/new songs than Mike might be able to provide for.

nothing beats "we'll make sweet love till the sun goes down. we'll even do MORE when her momma's not around"!!!!!!!!

Brian's new album would sound a whole lot better with Mike and Bruce on it. Sell a heck of a lot better too! You Mike advocates seem to forget the utter disaster of "Summer in Paradise". What he BB need is a good producer who knows when and how to use autotune and steer Brian in thhe right direction, plus songwriting collaborators that make Brian excited and productive.

Summer In Paradise?

We don't forget it: we just realize it's not all that bad.

I like it too. It has a very "Haters gonna hate" vibe.  :lol

Wait . . . what?

Where have you been?

The merits/non-merits, where it sucks/where it's good regarding Summer In Paradise has been discussed to death for years on end.

I just don't like this Mike's 2013 lyrics are terrible when there are no 2013 lyrics. It's one thing to berate something actual, but to pre-judge just isn't fair. Like Sheriff.. said, the 3 Mike co-written songs are still fun and catchy and more Beach Boy-ish than anything else on TWGMTR. I always found The Beach Boys better together than individually. Also, I'm with Pinder.., while SIP is no Pet Sounds, it certainly isn't "all that bad", either.

Aside from the half-decent title track, I'd say it's pretty much unlistenable.

No it's not! ;)

Hitting The Hollywood Reporter: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/earshot/mike-love-upset-direction-beach-606461

Al Jardine response by... Friday, say?

Shitty Cut and Paste Journalism, Vol 63436: "Wilson says he'd still like to pursue some more writing with Wilson"

(http://www.aceshowbiz.com/images/wennpic/the-beach-boys-50th-anniversary-tour-12.jpg)

"We really would."

. . that could be a 100% accurate Brian Wilson quote, though. :)

Wilson plans rock n' roll album with Wilson!

:lol :lol :lol

"I was pretty involved in the sequencing and the song selection and the overall concept," says Love"

a good percentage of folk who are just head over heels in love with TWGMDT suddenly don't like it anymore  >:D >:D

He's talking about Made in California there. Otherwise his complaint would be a tad schizoid, eh?

Nothing new but a radio interview with Mike on the topic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcywqyC-f3Q

Doh!!! Got me!

Does anyone??? Personally, I think it would be interesting to see what they could do together. Of course Brian would have to be open minded about Mike being able to write other stuff than just about surf and sand and actually challenge him to do so, and Mike would have to be open minded about writing not just about surf and sand.

That said, I'd like to write them a surf song called "I've got sand in my crack" ;D



Man, the worst song the BBs ever put out is The Private Life Of Bill And Sue, and that's all Brian, no Mike! (The second worst is Summer Of Love which is no Brian and mostly Mike.)

Daybreak Over The Ocean is good because the production is good, regardless of Brian not being involved, and the song in itself is decent. (Mike's first version is terrible even though it's the same song.)

Equally, the bad thing about Beaches In Mind isn't the lyrics, it's the production. The song is too slow and would need a more rocking arrangement. Or at least some kind of arrangement.

The best tracks on TWGMTR are Isn't It Time and Summer's Gone, which have just little respectively no Mike input.

So what proof is in what pudding?

All their problems are "invented by other people" apparently. It's just a coincidence he's trying to drive a very public wedge between Brian and those "other people" and he doesn't have a problem with Brian at all.

What's with the not naming these shadowy forces anyway?

Ssssssshhhhhh. We're not supposed to know that you know!  ;D

(http://www.fxguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/10Dec/harry/HP7_cinesite_voldemort.jpg)

We should have one thread for Mike's ongoing weekly, controversial interview.

I guess all Mike's postive interviews plugging Radio were complete BS and lies?

I'm going to assume Melinda Wilson, Joe Thomas, and Jeffrey Foskett are at least a few of the people Mike has a problem with.

Al Jardine big time from what I hear. You always hear Mike mentioning working with Brian again, never Al.

"They're doin' it all over the world....."

(sorry)   >:D

Oh, come on. It's pretty clear that this is all about a single person.

-- Joe Thomas.

That's it. Joe was invited back into the BB world by Brian and didn't just aid in recording the album, but he managed to get co-writing credits on every song but Mike's solo track. He ran the C50 touring organization. He put together the documentary, concert film and live album. He is helping realize Brian's new project (pay no mind to the recent production credit for Don Was -- the official press release credits JT as the collaborator-in-charge).

Look at what Mike said. He's talking about decisions made during the recording process -- which Joe and the backing band members have said he set up and scheduled. Mike's talking about integrity, etc., issues that arose on the road. These wouldn't have been caused by Brian or Melinda (and Mike knows better than to go after her at this point). But what about the third, little-seen member of the C50 organization?

Remember what AGD was saying recently. Something changed during the tour. Something changed toward the end of the run of shows, and it seems pretty clear that Mike and Joe had a massive falling out. Something to lead Mike to cut off the reunion project, something that led him to harshly reassess the most successful record he'd been involved with for 25 years. It must have been a pretty big deal.

Now, look at what's going on in BW land. Brian is touring with Al and Dave and has roped in Jeff Beck. Joe Thomas is still behind the scenes and has been spotted at shows. The band has video screens, and some of the accouterments of the C50 tour. Sure seems like someone in BW's orbit is interested in having the group tour as a challenge to Mike's version of the group. Given Brian's past, it's likely not him or Melinda.

So if Joe is interested in wresting control of the BB name or touring arrangements, Mike's decision to high-tail it back to the way things were, rather than being forced to work for the mulleted one, makes a lot more sense, doesn't it?

Mike and Bruce are the ones recycling C50 vids on the video screens. I don't remember a reference to video screens at the Brian Wilson + Al & David shows. Did they have any?

If Mike has a problem with Joe Thomas, he should just say Joe Thomas instead of "people." He'd have a lot of support, I bet!

Yep. Multiple video screens. Look at the photo below and you can see six panels back there. (Video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32srqWL4jHo)

Mike and Bruce have replaced nearly all of the C50 videos, too, at the request of Brian and Al's folks.

(https://sphotos-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/p480x480/936502_10151740655572241_1101067372_n.jpg)

Are there any pics with something actually projected? It's strange it wasn't mentioned in any of the reviews or stuff posted here. They aren't using the isolated vocal tracks, are they really projecting footage of Carl for God Only Knows during that anyway?

Look at the video link I added to the post. Mostly abstract patterns.

That isn't the C50 video. I Get Around had palm trees and cheesy driving footage during C50. That's prolly the venue.

God Only Knows: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcT48TqYbZA

No Carl video. 

I don't think he was saying that they're using any of the C50 videos. It seems he was just saying that Joe Thomas is making a clear effort to compete with Mike's band by using some of the gimmicks that Mike's band has, like the video screens. It definitely makes sense that he would want Brian to tour and that he's doing it to beat out Mike.

But isn't it the other way around? Mike kept the things Joe Thomas' organization brought on board for C50. Then changed it when Brian and Al complained and removed their likenesses.

Wirestone you're right tho, there IS some of the same water footage here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_vmHT4SDuw

There aren't any screens at all on some of the other shows. Hope they aren't there for the fall leg -- cheesy distracting stuff! It'd be more useful if it ran a live feed from an onstage camera.


Touring is Joe Thomas' idea? And it's just to beat Mike Love? I thought it was more what Brian Wilson did. Musical therapy, too.

Here they are in Pittsburgh -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPVOt0ceTVw

Here they are in Atlantic City -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32srqWL4jHo

An outdoor venue different than the first two -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AgaFFJWVOc

So, not the venue. They are touring with video screens (at least some of the time).

I was never trying to say that they're using the C50 footage -- they're clearly not (thanks for getting my point, Bubbly Waves). But it seems clear to me that Joe (or someone in the org) wants them to keep using some sort of backing images while onstage. It ain't the bare-bones aesthetic you typically see in BW's solo shows.

Well, "That Lucky Old Sun."

I'm still not getting how it's Joe Thomas reacting to Mike Love, tho. Unless he had the projections pre-C50.

Yeah, I suppose that's true.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that Brian isn't a very big fan of touring and playing in front of people. Sort of why he sits behind that big piano.

Right, it must be Joe Thomas forcing him then. The power of the mullet compels you!

Those panels are strickly lighting. Not one picture, still or moving was shown on them.

Forgive me for attempting a reasonable conversation.

That's entirely incorrect, and rather bizarrely so. If you took a minute or two to look at the multiple YouTube videos I posted here, just minutes ago, you would see that the panels indeed display abstract video patterns throughout the show.

I doubt that Joe (or anyone, really) is forcing Brian to tour. But I do think that Joe may well have an interest in making the Brian, Al and Dave show be more visually compelling and accessible to a broader audience. Video screens do that, as do revered guest stars (hello, Jeff Beck).

And no, this isn't unique to Joe. Brian toured with video screens for a handful of appearances to promote TLOS. And he toured with Paul Simon back in 2001. So none of these things are new or unusual or sinister. My larger point was simply that I think Joe might have been interested in wresting control of the BB business, and the way things are coming together this summer and fall suggest he may still have ambitions in that direction.

yea, so? What's your point? Joe brings the stage show into the 21st history. It's still nothing like what was used on the C50. I'm serious, I don't get what you're getting at.

Shoot, Brian had video on the Imagination tour. If Joe is wresting control, he still hasn't gotten it for the past 15 years.

I always had a feeling Mike doesn't like Al very much

There was no Imagination tour. The record came out in the summer of 1998, and Brian did not start touring until the spring of 1999.

There was a single show in Saint Charles, Ill., in 1998 that was filmed for the Imagination VH1 special (and Your Imagination video). There were video projections at that single show.

You my friend are annoying. You know exactly what my point was, but you correct my usage of Imagination Tour. Maybe it wasn't called that, but that was the album that the tour was built around. Now, get on with addressing my point.

Wow you echo me exactly. Otherwise I think it's sad to see Mike's every move result in immovable arguments off inevitably the same people. Some of us here just are Beach Boys fans as in Brian, Carl, Dennis, Mike, Al, Dave, Bruce, Ricky, and Blondie. I like them all musically speaking, and see how each of their talents benefited the group. Mike and Brian haven't spent quality creative time together since Brian visited Mike in Santa Barbara in 1980. It would be cool if they could do it the old way. If both want to they should be given the chance. At the end of the day I don't care much about their ongoing squabbles. The vintage sixties and seventies stuff is a gift that makes all of this seem pretty dumb.

 They seemed like friends and allies throughout the seventies though. Maybe simply because neither man shared some of the same habits as the brothers Wilson?

 duplicate post

I think Mike just told you promises were not kept and as you point out Mike sticks to his word.

 Sure Cam. Mike had no problem signing onto the deal. And no apparent issues with TWGMTR when it debuted at #3. I realize there are many complexities and nuances - some of which we know nothing about - but regardless Mike Love's place as one of Rock music's biggest jerks is set in stone.

That's why you fellas need to get it right about Mike. Mike is a team player and puts up with broken promises for the team. He finally has enough but we aren't calling the people responsible jerks, we think he's the jerk for not putting up with it some more.

The whole 50th anniversary was a huge letdown. Except the 70+ dates they played. That's amazing.

  I'm calling Mike a "jerk" because at the moment he is ticking me off. (I have praised him on occasion.) Why the need to air his side of the story so strenuously? Why can't Mike and Bruce simply continue their merry way on the Endless Summer as they play great gigs at Sea World???

 Great avatar! Slightly different pose than the usual pic used from that photo session.  It would be very easy to airbrush Bruce out of the photo.

 Damn, Lost Beach Boy. You just changed your avatar! Sorry for derailing. I'm out tonight.

If by avatar you mean my profile pic. Yes I did. That's me and Blondie Chaplin.

 Another nice pic. I like Blondie.

 That 1971 shot is probably my favorite all-time Beach Boys pic, and I had never seen your alternate shot before.  And yes, that is indeed what I meant by the term "avatar."

The 1971 pic is one of my favs too. I wish there was more group photos with Blondie and Ricky!

A real shame he couldn't have popped in for one show to do "Sail On, Sailor" that night he was in the same town. It would have been one sweet youtube moment. Dean, Billy, Taylor, the kids... Blondie deserved one song too!

Say, what's he up to this fall? If Brian doesn't want to growl it out in concert any more, well... AHEM.
 

Maybe it is because Mike is plugged in now and read all the mountains of misunderstanding and misdirected blame for himself?

I'm in agreement that this airing of dirty laundry in public by various band members is not a good thing and I wish it would stop. And I know that's an understatement. I realize that in some cases they are addressing an interviewer's question, but can't they devise some response to answer the question and say nothing at the same time. They pull that off pretty well with most of the other things they say, or don't say. It just goes to show that these guys have learned NOTHING through the years. Sometimes I think that if the Beach Boys were given a second chance to do it again (pun intended), they'd make the same stupid mistakes.

It was hinted above, and as expected, ignored, but... Nobody seems to be questioning or disagreeing with Mike when he says that the plans regarding his songwriting with Brian were changed after the reunion started. But what isn't being pointed out enough is that Mike did suck it up, kept his mouth shut publicly, was a team player, and let it go. Mike could've said, "Wait a minute; this isn't what I or we agreed to. And I'm putting an end to this bullsh--" And the reunion would've been in serious jeopardy, maybe even killed.

Of course Mike would've been hammered unmercifully. And I'll say again that I wish Mike would stop talking about it in public. But, I'm curious. Was Dennis hammered for pulling his songs from Surf's Up - over sequencing? Or Carl when he walked out of the 1995 sessions? I won't even begin to list the numerous times Brian bowed out...

 I was mad as hell when I found out Carl walked out of the '95 sessions (he did sing on SIP after all)  but later realized it could have been due to illness.

 The details of Dennis pulling his cuts off SURF'S UP have always been a tad vague. The general story is an argument with Carl over sequencing.

Yeah, if you google "Mike Love" you get a whole lot of nasty. Maybe Mike  now has a Macbook and Bruce has shown him the ropes. I remember some months back Mike gave an interview about hateful comments about him on Al's website. Turned out that was wrong (it was Facebook) annd Mike had to release a statement correcting himself.

they had a falling out a long time ago... I don't think they really patched things up so much as put things aside last year.

The sequencing of Surf's Up is spot on. Except I would have taken out A day in the life of a tree and put it 4th of July or wouldn't it be nice to live again.

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3714/9514527852_f07eedb472_n.jpg)

Still, it sold better than Bruce Johnston Teaches Typing.

So, here's my question: What has Mike on the defensive all of a sudden?  I know he was getting the same annoying "what happened to the reunion tour" questions for months, but he handled it better at the beginning. Now, he's starting to make it sound like the whole thing was a death march that he was forced to participate in.

When the reunion tour ended, Mike was the one saying that it was over and things were going back to the way they were, see ya later. Then Brian and Al were all, "We felt like we were fired. Nyeh!" Then Mike responded with, "Yeah, but you weren't. It was always meant to end and I'm just going back to the plan. No hard feelings. Summer's Gone. Pffft!"

Brian goes back to the studio and says he ain't planning on any more reunions.  Mike goes to SeaWorld with Bruce and says all is right with the world, Brian's in the studio, he's on the road. Big pause.  Brian picks up a Grammy. Mike plays various fairs. Next thing we know, Brian's announcing an album, a tour with Al and Dave. He's got a movie bio, a book deal and a fall tour with Jeff Beck. Seemingly simultaneously, Mike adds C50 elements (the things he claimed to hate about the reunion tour) to his Beach Boys show, and starts complaining that the reunion and the last album weren't all that. All the while lamenting that he never gets to write with "Cousin Brian" anymore because Joe Thomas, or Homeland Security or someone won't let him.

Is there a competition going on? Is Brian making play for control of the Beach Boys name? Is someone else making a play for the Beach Boys name?  Is Mike worried that the C50 success and SMiLE Grammy have given Brian some increased cache and Mike might have played the C50 ending the wrong way? Is Al the one behind all of this? What about Dave? Maybe he's the master manipulator! What's going on? Curious minds want to know!

In reality, they'd do themselves a favor by zipping their lips, but I don't see that happening.

I do think it's interesting to watch Mike try to up his game to C50 levels while at the same time disparaging those who produced it. All the while talking nice-nice about "Cousin Brian."

Methinks there's been a power shift.

If they zipped their lips we'd have very little to talk about here ;D

I think Mike needs to let it go. I think it's a shame that he wasn't able to write anything with Brian....but that's the way it went. If they're still fighting like this (through media outlets and not over the phone with each other) then there's not much of a band left anymore....and there's no use for them to pretend to be a band anymore.

I'm assuming your questions are rhetorical, but, because I'm bored and spending way too much time on the computer tonight, I'll answer them...

Mike isn't all of a sudden being defensive. He continues to be asked about "the end" of the reunion in interviews, and continues to answer the questions, sometimes too honestly. But, we agree (and I just posted the same thing above), I wish Mike and the rest would just stop talking about it in public.

Second, no, I don't think there is a competition going on or Brian making a play for control of The Beach Boys' name. I believe that Brian is perfectly content to sit at home and collect a check for every concert that Mike performs. He has been doing it for most of his adult life.

Well yeah. But, since you bothered to answer them, I'll respond.

I would argue that Mike's line has become more defensive. Maybe it is because he's tired of answering the same idiotic question time and again. Can't say I blame him. But the "It was meant to end, so it did" answer is much more diplomatic than "It sucked. The tour was too big and the album tanked." The tour and album were critical and popular successes, and for Mr Positivity to give it that kind of Negativity sounds like a defensive reaction, to me. No matter how he felt about the process, the product was pretty good. Besides, what else had they done recently?

My comments about competition were just media type hyperbole. However, I will stand up for Brian a bit here. It's perfectly fitting that he has collected those checks from Beach Boys concerts all these years. Without his music, Mike's set list would be pretty damn short.

 

A couple of years ago, I attended the most amazing Mike & Bruce concert. This was the setlist:

1. Still Cruisin'
2. Come Go With Me
3. Rock And Roll To The Rescue
4. I Can Hear Music
5. Do You Wanna Dance
6. Then I Kissed Her
7. Graduation Day
8. Summertime Blues
9. The Little Old Lady From Pasadena
10. Papa-Oom-Mow-Mow
11. Why Do Fools Fall In Love
12. Everyone's In Love With You
13. All This Is That
14. California Dreamin'
15. Sloop John B
16. California Saga
17. Disney Girls
18. Getcha Back
19. Summer In Paradise
20. Rock And Roll Music
21. Back In The USSR

Encores:
22. Their Hearts Were Full Of Spring
23. Kokomo
24. Barbara Ann
25. Johnny B. Goode

Naw, I was just kidding... :police:   
 

Giving Mike the benefit of the doubt, I believe his desire to write with Brian is an honorable one. He wants to return to the beginning -- to the days of Surfin' Safari, All Summer Long, and Today! -- and complete the circle with a final batch of Wilson/Love songs that would equal the early/mid-sixties classics. That's an admirable (if unlikely to be realized) ambition.

Speculating here, but from Mike's perspective he and Brian had a great thing going. But starting really with Tony Asher and continuing with Van Dyke Parks -- and now with Joe Thomas -- some outsider is always getting in the way. All you need for more records as good as  'California Girls' and 'Fun, Fun, Fun' is to put Mike and Brian in a room with a piano ( or so I speculate that Mike believes). They did it once, why not again?

In Mike's mind, the creative wellspring of the Beach Boys has always been him and Brian. I think he's wrong, it's always been just Brian, but it's hard for me to blame Mike for thinking otherwise. Everyone has an ego, no?

So, the final upshot is : TWGMTR will be the final Beach Boys album. Mike will continue to play his gigs for a few more years, until he gets too old, and Brian will release solo lps that might have been Beach Boys ones.

That would be awesome for a Mike and Bruce concert. Sux if you're The Beach Boys, tho.

From now on I think it should be required to refer to the forces that keep Mike away from "Cousin Brian" as Homeland Security.

And yeah, all these guys have major cases of diarrhea of the mouth. They just cannot shut up. I kinda hate seeing all the bickering, but it's so rock and roll that I find it funny as well.

Future plans and past history.....

Perfect!

I wish Mike would find a collaborator and crank out a bucket of songs, and either record them or have someone well known record them, if they are any good.  Unfortunately, I think his better days as a lyricist are over.  It seems like Mike has shown little interest in song writing the last 10 years and is occupied with touring.   

Did I miss a Brian interview? He seems to be taking the high road to all these Mike interviews. Mike is switching from one negative to another. Last time it was Brian ended the C50, Brian said enough.
I have seen a few Al interviews but that is it.

If Brian wants the BB license, I imagine it be a 2-2 tie. Brian may not need the money from Mike's shows but Carl's estate probably likes the cash.

I'm sorry, but the statement: the creative wellspring of The Beach Boys has always just been Brian is painfully ignorant and I bet Brian would agree with me.

It's funny that anyone wonders why Mike might be defensive. Especially "suddenly" defensive.

"Wellspring" : the source of a spring or stream; the fountainhead.

Brian initiated the songs. He wrote the music, co-wrote the lyrics. Produced the records. Arranged them. Decided which songs Mike Love, or Jan Berry, or Gary Usher, or Roger Christian, or whoever, would contribute lyrics to. It all flowed from Brian.

Is this all misinformation? Not only just ignorant, but "painfully ignorant'?

I think it makes total sense that Mike is defensive. One issue, however, is who or what is the cause of his needing to be defensive. Many feel Mike brings a lot of it on himself.

Most fans seem to allow for the possibility that sometimes in isolated cases he is misunderstood. There are a few who for some reason take it to the extreme of implying that Mike is the ultimate victim in the band's story, a poor soul who has been trodden upon by a vicious power-wielding Al Jardine and a three man contingent of Brian, Al, and David who have the classlessness and clear lack of respect for easily-amended contractual agreements that leads them to crazy ideas like wanting to keep the entire band together.  ::)

Hey, I'm not a Mike basher, Cam. I recognize his contributions to the band, and I've been to the Mike and Bruce shows several times and enjoyed them. But, I also went to C50 and saw the difference having all the boys together made. I was disappointed that they couldn't work out a more long term agreement to work together. I figured, if Mike wanted to continue to tour and Brian didn't, wouldn't it be great if he went on out, specifically as a touring arm of the Beach Boys, while Brian went back to the studio and started work on new Beach Boys material. When good opportunities came up for them to perform together, they could. When album material was ready, they could record. I didn't see why it had to be an all or none situation after C50. The band was getting offers and opportunities they hadn't been given for decades, but they couldn't even consider them because Mike and Bruce had to go back to playing SeaWorld. They turned down major venues and scuttled the renewed interest in the band. They blew it, and by all accounts (even Mike's earliest statements) it was because Mike didn't want to go on.

Nearly one year on, Brian's moving on with some high profile projects, while Mike and Bruce continue as they always have, and suddenly Mike's singing from a different hymn book: The REAL reason he didn't go on with the reunion was because of the people in charge and the shadow forces that keep him from working with Brian. And, by the way, the tour was bloated and the album was crap.

Now, I know that the whole "It was just like 1965 again" was just PR. But, The Beach Boys had a major successful international tour and a well received album of new material that was good enough for Capitol to offer a follow up. They have not been this successful in years. But, to Mike it was all just garbage. That seems increasingly defensive to me, and I just wonder why.

There aren't 2013 lyrics. But there are 2012 lyrics. And when he was talking about the album with Rolling Stone, what song (besides "That's Why God Made The Radio") did he talk up? "Beaches In Mind" of course. The song where he actually inserts the phrase "fun, fun, fun" into the lyrics. Sure, maybe Brian gave him the title "Beaches In Mind", but I doubt he mandated him to shoehorn in cheesy references. He could have chosen "From There To Back Again" or "Summer's Gone", or if it had to be a song he cowrote, then "Isn't It Time". But no, the one that excited Mike the most was the "fun, fun, fun" one.

I agree with this, and have been thinking along the same lines myself. Mike's comments about the reunion have been getting more pointed, at the exact time when Brian is putting together a tour with Jeff Beck that is one of his better selling tickets, according to his people. Mike's whole thing is about control. He wants to write in a room with Brian because I believe he thinks he can better control Brian that way, without all those outsiders interfering. He goes back to his BB configuration after C50 because he can control that. However, he likes control as long as it comes with greater success than the rest of the band, which is now being threatened by Brian. We all know how much Mike values "commercialism." For the past several years, however, Brian's tours haven't done better than Mike's BB tours--as a  matter of fact, there have been many reports of Brian playing to half-empty venues. So, Brian hasn't been a threat, commerically. However, now we have Brian gearing up for an exciting new tour (and album) featuring Jeff Beck and Al and Dave, while Mike is doing what he has always done since 1998. While Mike says he is content doing his country fairs and casinos, I think he likes it in the context of Brian and the rest of the band not eclipsing him.

In addition, the C50 made it widely known that Mike's BB's only feature him and Bruce, and that there are other BB's who he won't allow to be part of the group. (Even if that is not 100% accurate, the media narrative was that "Mike fired Brian, et. al" and that Brian and Al and Dave wanted to continue the reunion.) So, the media is now constantly asking Mike about the reunion's ending. I am sure he wasn't getting these kinds of questions before C50--no one was asking him in 2007 where Brian Wilson or Al or Dave were. While its never been a secret that Mike's BBs only had two "original" members, it probably wasn't a fact widely known by the casual journalist or fan. Now, however, even the local reporter who does a puff piece on Mike and Bruce coming to the county fair next week knows that this is not the real BB's.    

Also, I don't understand why Mike keeps complaining. Brian did what was contractually obligated.* Just like Mike by playing those shows. As far as we know, there was no contract saying Brian had to write with Mike. He let him cowrite three songs. He went above and beyond what was expected. Can't Mike be happy with that?



*This excuse was good enough for Mike's defenders. So why can't we use it for Brian, as well.

You are all overlooking the obvious.

THIS IS ALL YOKO'S FAULT!  :o  ;D

That is a horrific allegation.  Mike and Brian still share a common bloodline.  And, Mike is the closest thing left even resembling a "brother." History will remember the Wilson-Love writing alliance. The others are minor league players.  It is what it is. The line forms at the rear.

And, for many fans who don't share your opinion (which is fine) the optimal BB team is still Brian and Mike. They have a "synergy" that Brian doesn't have with other collaborators on any long term, non "project basis." If you see Endless Harmony, you'll see that Brian's regret over not having been on Kokomo, and his desire to work with Mike.  Apparently, this was one condition of C50 that was not fulfilled.  And to the detriment of all of us.  The fans need Mike in the room. History of music needs him in the room.

Bring it on.  ;)

Mike was a good soldier under Brian's command from 1961-1970. Not so much these days since Mike thinks he is Brian's creative and leadership equal.

Only Mike knows what Mike thinks.  He has always had a remarkable ability to "translate" and make "available" what Brian is trying to convey with his music.  No one else has had that talent. He is a wordsmith. Mike "keeps it real." Public reception of words AND music are where it's at! Not someone's pseudo intellectual drivel.

W-I-L-D - H-O-N-E-Y! Baby!

"He has always had a remarkable ability to "translate" and make "available" what Brian is trying to convey with his music.  No one else has had that talent."

Nope, not Tony Asher, nor Van Dyke Parks, nor Roger Christian, etc.

Due to many circumstances within and beyond his control, from 1970 on, Brian has not always been the good soldier. No matter how you slice it, this band has a lot of dysfunction, that like this current situation, brings everything to a stand still.

Cousin Mike just needs to grouse to attract attention and promote his shows. Who would give him any ink otherwise for a county fair gig? Maybe the Farmingdale Herald-Picayune, but not Billboard. Nobody at Rolling Stone is going to be running pieces about Mike's creative explosion because he's just NOT going to be having any of those in the time he has left on this planet. No major label is going to be signing him for a solo album at this point in his career. So he has to undercut even his own fairly decent achievements with C50 to remain relevant.


Eh. Gary Usher, Roger Christian, Van Dyke Parks, and Tony Asher all did excellent jobs fusing their words with his music. Mike was never an indispensable part of the songwriting team, and that lack of indispensable talent must've infuriated him all his life. The goose that laid the golden egg, off working with a bunch of Hollywood sissies and car freaks and druggies while he was out there on the road, crouching down real low and going poppa oom mow mow! The nerve of Brian to not need him to write songs!

Whereas without Brian, Mike's accomplishments could fit on a small mantlepiece over an imitation fireplace. That's including the lovely plaque from the Reagan Library and an autographed still of Tom Cruise in "Cocktail."


Nothin' pseudo intellectual about the hilarious, charming lyrics Brian writes. Nothin' pseudo intellectual about Roger Christian. Don't try to tell me "Shut Down" or "Don't Worry Baby" isn't as good as Mike's work of the era! Or somehow snooty.

Nothing intellectual about Tony Asher's sweet, direct lyrics. Is Gary Usher citing Heidegger or something? I guess you mean VDP, huh? Well, personal taste. I think he's a gentlemen, utterly brilliant, and endlessly entertaining. His songs make me laugh, paint wonderful pictures, and reveal little twists and puns years later... it's amazing he's still creative and relevant to modern music. Plus, he wears sensible clothes.



Things go better with Coke!

Funny that you bring up "Wild Honey". I'm pretty sure that's yet another song that Brian did the backing track to, with Mike supplying the words afterwards. Sound familiar? Oh yeah, it does. Just like "California Girls", "Good Vibrations", "Spring Vacation", and "Isn't It Time". Shoot, it's just like the all-time great "Kokomo". Mike wasn't there when that was written. In fact, he probably never even crossed John Phillips mind when the song was initially created. So yeah, I agree with those who think Mike's need to create with Brian "in a room alone" is kinda bullshit aimed at controlling Brian, since ya know, he knows best.

It seems reasonable from Mike to claim direct access to Brian. And if such access was agreed upon in the beginning of the project and then denied, then more power to Mike. If I recall correctly, Van Dyke complained about not having direct contact with Brian during the days of TLOS. Being Brian's collaborator must not be easy.

I really doubt their contract with Capitol called for all the songs to be written by Brian and Mike in a room. Altho they did want the other Beach Boys involved, rooms weren't specificed and the deal was on the strength of the 4 tracks Joe and Brian gave to Capitol. THEN they went to Mike if he wanted to participate with Capitol already in place.

They followed the contract, delivered the product. He should've used his leverage at the time to negotiate better terms if that's what he really wanted. Or refused the contract with Capitol which again, was secured on the basis of "That's Why God Made the Radio" and 3 other BW/JT tracks.

If that's what the deal was in the start, where is he getting all this "we were going to write together in a room" stuff come from? That's not what the record deal was about.

JT: "We went to Capitol with four songs. Before we met Mike, before we did anything. We went to Capitol with four songs that we had come up with. “That’s Why God Made the Radio,” and just the oohs and aahs from three other songs. They just flipped. They were like, Heck, we’ve got to sign this. They were wonderful to us. They’ve got a great catalog division. The people who run it get the Beach Boys, and they said, this is the only place for you guys. So they made us an incredible offer based on those songs for a three-record deal. That’s what Brian needed to go say to Mike at dinner. He could go, look, I’ve got some new material, I want you be part of it, and by the way, we already have a record deal if you want to do it. And that was exactly the way it was approached to Mike. He heard the songs after Capitol had already said we want to give you guys a deal. Now, there were only four of them. But I think it was important to Mike that Brian wanted to include him, and I think it was important to Capitol that this was not a solo record. That this was a collaborative record between those guys."

And they DID collaborate more on the other tracks, with Mike writing lyrics and dragging in some archival stuff they overdubbed on. Hell, they even wrote "Isn't it Time" in a room with Mike.

 Geez, that whole interview is so enthusiastic and full of promise for the future.

"it's a damn shame."

Honestly, I can see how Mike would resent Joe Thomas and want to be in the catbird seat calling the shots. But Joe and Brian made the record deal. Mike agreed to the deal and praised him at the time! It's a bit rich feeling cheated now.

A ML-lead BBs album would go unreleased. He is just too cynical in his lyrics these days.

Who said anything about Capitol being involved in Mike & Brian's arrangement to write together? Remember Brian called Mike about doing the album. What Brian did with Capitol on his own is separate with whatever deals he worked out with Mike to get on board with the project.

.....and they wrote three songs together? What did Mike want?

I did, right up there.

 Love made the deal with Capitol with Joe Thomas based on the strength of those 4 tracks, not on the strength of unwritten Love/Wilson compositions. They honored their contractual obligations and promoted the product. If he didn't like the arrangement, it's his own fault for making it. Perhaps the money Capitol was offering sounded better than creative control at the time. It's all well and good to complain now, but when it was dealmaking time... none of this "in the room" sh*t came up.

Nostalgia for the way things were in the 60s sounds sweet when you're playing the oldies circuit, but it sure isn't in record company contracts.

None of those folks, were in the BB vision tank, at the outset of the band.

Those other talented guys seemed to work on "project-specific" music.  What is exciting about Mike is that he could shift gears across other genres, such as a soul theme, such as Wild Honey, and exactly why I mentioned it.  He grew in the job. And, is connected in a way that others might not be, despite their work on some specific music.  They've all been given credit.  

But, no one is singing "columnated ruins domino." And they are still singing Do It Again, I Get Around, Little St. Nick, Let Him Run Wild, The Man With All the Toys, The Warmth of the Sun, All Summer Long, California Girls, Darlin', Good Vibrations, I'm Waiting for the Day, Kiss Me, Baby, Please Let Me Wonder, etc.

Most are sung by rote, for nearly 50 years.

The biggest hits were Brian-Mike. This is objective. This is fact specific. No, it isn't politically correct, which is of no consequence. The body of work speaks for itself.

So? That doesn't bolster your "No one else has had that talent" argument. You didn't claim nobody else was there at the outset of the band, you said no one else had the talent to "translate" and make "available" what Brian is trying to convey with his music. Shut Down, Little Deuce Coupe, Don't Worry Baby. That's just Roger Christian. You're telling me they aren't as effective as the early Mike Love lyrics?

They aren't as direct, as clever with their rhymes? Nonsense. Absolute nonsense that only Mike had this ability. Mike wishes he wrote Shut Down and Little Deuce Coupe and you know it. He's sang their pseudo-intellectual rhymes about cars thousands of times! You can concentrate on VDP to try to make the distinctions between Love and Brian's other collaborators greater, but when you bring Christian and Usher into it... sorry. This argument crumbles.

No one ever said it would be led by Mike. If Mike & Brian made a deal to do the album with a caveat being that he & Brian would write together, then Brian only threw Mike a bone to help write 3 out of the additional 7 needed, then Mike might have felt duped. If what you guys say is correct, Mike was given 2 songs already written, one Mike archival song, and one song written from scratch. We don't even know how complete the 4 played for Capitol were. I can see Mike being upset about not being included in the writing of those remaining songs, or at least on some of them.

Well, you're wrong! The deal was made by Brian & Joe with Mike brought in later. And that LATER could have been after Mike's talk with Brian about writing together. You are making assumptions about how it went down, when none of us are sure. 

So Joe Thomas is lying about the origins of the record deal then?

It obviously wasn't in the Capitol deal that it be a Wilson/Love partnership right down the middle with songs written together in a room. If it was, that would've happened. If it WAS in the deal and Mike Love was betrayed, clearly he should've fought harder at the time to make sure everyone honored their agreements. I don't recall many stories about Mike being a weak pushover when money and legal issues are concerned, so yes - I'm assuming they followed their contracts. Which didn't specify Wilson/Love compositions. 

Mike should've gotten a better deal if this was important to him at the time. I'm assuming it wasn't since we're only hearing about it now.

Please watch Endless Harmony. Also, please make a list as long or as time lengthy as the Brian and Mike collaboration.  

And, I'm not getting into Parks.  I love his work on Popeye. And do like SMiLE and got the vinyl on Day One.

But, he is a "project writer" - he isn't and doesn't seem to fit with BB themes and vision.  I think it is mutual.  I turned off with him when he got an injunction against that artist in NY, that I felt was a wonderful educational tribute to the artwork and lyrics, which in my opinion gave him and the artist good publicity and not bad.  We all started (boomers) young and got many helping hands on the way up, and mentors. He could have been a mentor and hero. He missed that opportunity.  

For not getting into Parks, you sure take a lot of cheap shots at Parks. It's a good thing he doesn't need anybody doing damage control for him online unlike certain baseball capped men with chronic foot in mouth disease!

You're still not making your case for why the lyrics to Don't Worry Baby, Little Deuce Coupe, and Shut Down don't work with Brian's music as well as Mike's stuff. Cmon, how does that work! Those are amazing, classic songs with lyrics the equal of anything from Love's pen, so what's the missing ingredient preventing them from being one with the band's vision?

The C50 was a guaranteed cash grab and I'm betting Mike was more than willing to put up with a Thomas/Wilson set up for a limited time due to the huge payoff. However when talk of making the reunion a more permanent thing sprang up, I think that's when Mike became more vocal in his desire in getting to write with Brian one on one in that mythical room. That's my guess/take on it anyway.

OK - you got why I'm not happy with Parks.  And, prior, I really liked his work, even outside BB land.

The car themed songs were worked on by Roger Christian.  That is theme-based.  The C50 Google interview is online and you'll hear Johnston sing his praises with the car-specific jargon for the car song lyrics.  Looks like "contract work" to me.

I crack up with Little Deuce Coupe. One of my kids always called it, "little 2 scoops" - as in ice cream!

Please try to find the good qualities in all members of the band, apart from the factions.  It makes it REALLY easy to look objectively at their work. I guess it is easy for me after grading so many papers.  I just look at each one separately.  Please see this interview.  

Maybe Mike should have gotten it in writing, but I have never read anything to contradict my statements to you. It was a verbal agreement between Brian & Mike that most likely took place between Brian going to Capitol to pitch the new album and Mike being brought in to seal the deal. You are very Brian-centric in this whole discussion, while you know that something different went down after what was originally agreed to. I think both guys are at fault here. Mike should have known better than completely trust Brian, while Brian should have stuck to his verbal agreement with Mike. I still think Brian did this the way he did because there just wasn't enough time to do a full album mostly from scratch. Shoot, as it was. they barely finished in time to start rehearsals for the tour.

Thing is, objectivity is generally something OTHER people praise you for. Not what you toot your own horn about, as it's not exactly... very objective?

I'm glad you consider yourself eminently fair-minded and reasonable and took a moment to remind us, this clearly must make your opinions more valid than mine.

You're still not making the point as to how "theme-based" "contract work" doesn't fit with Brian's music and work with the vision of the band. These are unstoppable monster classics that have been performed by hundreds of bands since they were written and thousands of times by Mike Love, who is very careful about pruning and manicuring HIS version of The Beach Boys vision. Which includes hearty helpings of Christian, Usher, and Asher. The fact that they got royalties instead of Mike Love does not make them hackwork that doesn't fit Mike's beautiful vision of an endless summer. Just ask Mike's setlists.

Don't forget Surf City.  I'm sure Mike would have liked a credit on that one!  Having read all the previous pages of this thread I want to add my two cents.

I like all the Beach Boys and all their albums (even SIP!).  Some are works of art, others are enjoyable and there's something for all occasions. However, as I've posted elsewhere, people here are deluding themselves if they think these guys can write as consistently and as prolific as they did in their 20s.  They struggled in the 1970s do do it why would it be any different now?  I have met Mike and he was gracious and seemed like a decent guy.  I also don't have blinkers on when it comes to Brian.  However, some of the stuff Mike has written lyrically (constantly referencing hits from the past) are uninspired to say the least.  I don't mind cheesy lyrics from either guy as long as they fit the song.  However, Mike keeps rehashing old lyrics and concepts. Everything has to be about going to the beach in a woodie, listening to fun, fun, fun, while picking up good vibrations from a surfer girl.  This from a guy who wrote lyrics for Warmth of the Sun and Pacific Ocean Blues (with cousin Dennis) et al.  When he writes now he becomes a parody of his former self.  Brian has also done the same thing over the years but at least this is not his main thing, and he still tries to write from the hear or with collaborators.  He has always chosen guys to work with to keep it fresh, then move onto the next lyricist.  Sometimes people might feel 'used' but that's what he's always done.  You can force kids to be friends with or hang out with those they don't want to.  So why do people on here say Brian needs to get in a room with Mike?  It seems he doesn't want to any more than he wants to hang out with VDP or Tony Asher et al.  TWGMTR would not have been a better album with more Mike lyrics.  The last three songs in particular are a fitting way to end the last studio album of the original Beach Boys.  What a journey!

Another thing, it's been asked before.  Why can't Brian take the same approach and tell Mike that BAD are making a new Beach Boys album and he can be on it or not?  Didn't Mike do this with SIP?

Boy, ain't that the truth.

Initially I was a little annoyed by the folks seemingly crowing about the end of the reunion last year who kept reminding us about set end dates... but. Yeah. It's an appropriate ending, a helluva ride, and it seems Brian ended up with his original idea of making Summer's Gone the last ever Beach Boys song.

Mike should keep playing the fairs and casinos rehashing the hits for those who want it and having fun on the road comparing hats with Bruce, Brian can keep tinkering in the studio with an ever shifting cast of collaborators as has been his pattern all his life, Al and David can help out and take some of the pressure off him on stage. It all seems to be an ok way to go. I kinda wish they'd retire The Beach Boys name, but I understand how that would hurt Mike's wallet and ego. He doesn't have an audience touring under his own name like Brian does... so let him have it, everybody gets paid, Mike can no longer put out shitty records under The Beach Boys name and the legacy is secured and no flame is in danger of dying out. WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN!

He is gonna get a lot of sh*t when he does whiny interviews like this, tho! It doesn't suit a man his age to look so silly and it's not surprising the word douchebag gets slung around in the online comments sections.

"If Brian wants the BB license, I imagine it be a 2-2 tie. Brian may not need the money from Mike's shows but Carl's estate probably likes the cash."

Why would Brian want the license?  He can tour as Brian Wilson and keep all the money AND he gets a percentage from Mike's shows.  It's a win-win.  I think Brian liked touring under the Beach Boys name for the 50th tour but after being "fired" (yeah, I know) he's over it.

An interesting comment from Larry Dvoskin there:

"What you sow is what you reap, come to mind:

Mike 1000% c*ck blocked Al Jardine & Bruce from having any of their songs on the record out of self interest. "Waves Of Love" written by Al Jardine & myself features a guest vocal by late , great Carl Wilson and was declared by the CEO of Clear Channel to be the BEST NEW Beach Boys song in 30 years....

Now That's Why God Made The Radio..and if you stand in the way of the best music foot forward...

What goes around comes around..."

Meh

I have great respect for Mike Love as singer, writer, band leader, etc.  He is one of the 'Rock Gods'.  But these articles just make him seem whiney.  Wah wah wah

I thought they would have jumped at the chance to get some Carl vocals on the album.  I would have enjoyed it too!

I guess everybody in this story is an unreliable witness and Dvoskin is no different.

Brian's disinterest in Waves of Love is well known and Bruce doesn't seem to be too angry with Mike for She Believes in Love being omitted.

Mike's regretting it wasn't him who broke Al's leg. ;D



I'm sad rather than angry. I don't know Carl's reasons, but if I had been Carl, the reason would have been that I was once more excluded from the creative process, only used as a session singer.

I'm angry that Brian refused to work on Al's "Waves Of Love"!!! >:(

Yeah, but it's telling Mike doesn't go the route of sticking up for all of the band and championing the whole group pitching in songs like they used to. It'd make his whines sound a little more noble if he stuck up for the actual band vs. Thomas Inc. Instead it's all pretty selfish, isn't it. Me me me me I I I I room room room.

Sorry, I don't agree. I often try to remember one of my former principals who was Harvard educated and he reminded us of the difference between an "opinion" and "an informed opinion." One is just "one without research."  The other is "with information." I like the latter.  Most times that I post here, I check facts first, or re-watch a video. And, I still make plenty of mistakes, and get "called out."  No problem.   I "lurked" for two years before I posted in this "shark tank."  :lol

And, I watched the google C50 interview, many times, on my streamer, where the theme-based stuff was discussed and Christian was described as a "gear-head" who had that lingo ready-to-go for those car song lyrics. (More to Mike's credit to step aside as primary lyricist, in the interest of the Band output.)

That makes mine "informed."  I watched Endless Harmony many times, so when I ask you to do the same, and say "please" I get a hostile remark.  Brian does say that he would have loved to have sung on Kokomo.  Straight from the horse's mouth.  Brian.  Some people don't want to hear this.  It is what it is. On a movie.

I can't tell you about Mike's vision.  His "vision" is likely controlled by BRI contract.  They tell him what the "vision" is.  And, despite all the bad-mouthing, he sells out show after show.  And, if he has a story to tell, whether in a book or an interview, maybe people should listen to all sides of the story and be informed.  

Just please, make the list of songs, and count.  That's all.  Count Asher's, Christian's, Usher's, Parks' and Thomas' work. How many hits?  Over how many years?

I dunno, but perusing this list... the unifying strand seems to be Brian Wilson music with Beach Boys singing the words. Doesn't matter whose words as long as it's those gorgeous harmonies with the right genetic mix!

If you think Mike sells out show after show in 2013, clearly our definitions of objective are wildly divergent.

The rest of your post had too many quotes and condescension to address, so let's just agree to disagree and go play "Student Demonstration Time" 12 times to clear our sinuses.

I don't think it's a big deal to be honest. Mike isn't working with Brian because he wants to do his own thing. Fair enough.

We are all pretty selfish and that goes for Dvoskin too I guess. His comment is essentially, 'I wrote a great song but my wonderful song wasn't allowed on the album'...

No, his point seems to be that it's ironic Mike Love is complaining about not getting enough songwriting credits when he prevented others from getting songwriting credits. He seems to be enjoying it enough to say what goes around comes around twice.

You're not processing that part because it reflects poorly on Mike Love. It might be absolute bullshit for all we know, but the guy IS making a point you're not registering. Or pretending not to.

Yes but he makes the point because HIS song wasn't included.

Yeah, baby Student Demonstration Time!  :lol

I was at a sold out show last week! No seats in the house, is objective.  When the box office says, "sorry no tickets" - that is objective.  And when Brian tours, I'll see him, too. The music is all good.  The politics; not so much.

Right. And it's amusing to him because it's just what Mike Love did to them.

You're not processing that part because it reflects poorly on Mike Love. It's gotta be this greedy songwriter who is wrong! And that damn Jardine! Only Mike is reasonable and justified in his actions.


Selling out A show would be factually accurate, then. Not show after show. Because he isn't, look at the audience vids on youtube from this year and the empty seats. I'm told Shamu was especially depressed at the turnout.

Guys, sorry. He's a fun frontman, a great part of C50, was once a fine pop lyricist and an astonishingly poor sax player. But he doesn't give good interviews, never has and never did himself any favors with displays of sour grapes like this. You're going to have to be working overtime the next few years to spin his outburts... that movie is bound to get him frothing at the mouth!

When the next rounds of books are written about The Beach Boys and those final chapters, what are journalists going to use? These damn interviews, these stupid sour quotes. Way to add to the legacy, Mike. The legacy of blowing it.

Mike should be grateful he's not Brian. He doesn't depend on others to make decisions for him and no one controls him. Mike should enjoy his touring with his band and his house in Lake Tahoe and his lovely family and just forget about working with Brian again.

That's amusing but not related to anything I've written.

Mike doesn't want to tour with Brian or the other guys and is giving reasons to justify that which I don't think are 100% true or accurate or whatever. But I don't expect him to come out and say, 'on my own I can live an easy life, keep the costs low and have sex with numerous unfortunates' so I don't care.

My point was that Dvoskin's comments are also self-serving and we know that Mike certainly wasn't the only person to be against the song he wrote. I'm not sure why anyone would think Mike would be in support of Al having songs on the album anyway as that was never a big part of the band's success...

While just a rehash of the interview we are discussing, a few more little tidbits.

The negativity just  grows by Mr. Positivity. There is a reason this guy has one of the worst reputations in rock n roll. I just wonder why he can't just shut the fu$k up and do his Fun, Fun, Fun oldies shows in peace.

I would think the general public, reading this, wouldn't wanna be stuck in a room with Mike either,

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/mike-love-unhappy-beach-boys-reunion/

It is indeed just a rehash.

I can't get past the fact that none of this stuff would be an issue if Mike didn't bring it up. He's been handling the media and interviews since the early 60's, he does a great job promoting and being upbeat about whatever product is set to hit the shelves (including the C50 tour, the album, the Smile Sessions box, etc.) so obviously he knows how to work a press junket...

Why not just avoid talking about it? And if asked directly, politely dodge the question!

If you're trying to put out a fire, would you throw water or gasoline on the fire?  ;D

I don't get it.

Jesus, the picture they used.

(http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/ultimateclassicrock.com/files/2013/08/Mike-Love.jpg)

"Hey little boy, would you like to see my ROOM?"

What are you thinking?

I'm thinking they picked the creepiest pic they could find! Geez, they might as well have drawn fangs.

Except it's possible that that thing called 'ego' means he can't forget it.  He will possibly always feel the need to talk up his part in the Beach Boys story.  The thing is he doesn't have to.  I'm sure most people on here would thank Mike and be glad of his contributions to the legacy.  It's when he tries to go beyond that people get irritated (to put it mildly).  He's not McCartney.  But he did have a big part.  Ultimately because he's always been painted as the bad guy and screwed on songwriting credits he will always feel the need to remind everyone of his importance and that he was the guy who came up with this and that, including the concept for Back in the USSR.  Or that Kokomo didn't have Brian on it.  How many times do you hear Brian in an interview say, "yeah, I was the guy who wrote or co-wrote just about every hit we ever had.  We had many that weren't written by Mike Love.  I'm a genius"? Brian is actually relatively modest, and mentions how Mike has the best voice etc.  

Also regarding Mike being good a writer for different genres unlike a Roger Christian, didn't somebody say here that anyone could've picked up a surfing magazine back in the day and name check all the surf spots for Surfin' USA?  That was the whole point about Brian choosing different collaborators for different projects.  He obviously felt Mike was a bit of a jack-of-all trades, master of none (or one) lyricist.  Just my opinion of course.

I know this is lame of me, but could you please stop capitalizing "the Band". I'm pretty sure Robbie Robertson and Levon Helm weren't ever in The Beach Boys, and whenever I see that it makes me think of that "Band" rather than The Beach Boys

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/2ec27d75f87f74c00c4f0d6a2cd96463/tumblr_mpmisgP6W51qdgp86o1_1280.jpg)


 ;D




P.S. There still is a typo in the thread title . .  :P

Just read another one on another classic rock site. A bigger question is why Mike, and Brian, Al, ....... are doing interviews pumping MIC?

No offense to this Dvoskin guy, but didn't he also call "Waves of Love" his and Al's Pet Sounds or something? I'm pretty sure he has a pretty high opinion of his own work. Kinda seems like a goof if you ask me.

And the quote about the Clear Channel CEO? Who gives a sh*t what he thinks? The song was probably the only new Beach Boys song he'd heard in 30 years besides "Kokomo".

But it is interesting that if Mike really wanted to be better represented on the album, wouldn't it make sense to work together with Al and Bruce to get their work on there? But obviously he doesn't wanna associate with that asshole Jardine.

Yeah, wouldn't that come off sounding so much better in the press, too?

I don't think they should've put a Carl vocal on the album.So probably the right call unless they could work overdub magic. For something like Made in California, sure. Would've slotted in nicely!

I dig "Waves of Love" but it sounds nothing like Pet Sounds material. ???

Jeff Beck said the new stuff...

... sounds like Pet Sounds.

Al also said TWGMTR would be "like Pet Sounds" months before the release.


...


Do you guys think MiC will be as good as Pet Sounds...? :)

Yeah, the song itself isn't the best they've ever done.  Maybe that's why Brian politely declined (made his excuses and left the studio!).  I do like it but prefer "Don't Fight the Sea" out of those two songs.

It would be complete BS though wouldn't it.

I don't mean he bullshit his way through interviews like he did on C50 and for Radio and lie, I mean actually working with Al and Bruce and even David to get songs on the album like sweetdudejim mentioned. Everything Mike Love says to the press doesn't have to AUTOMATICALLY be bullshit, you know. It'd be a lot more sympathetic sounding in the press as opposed to what's going on now. He didn't care about the other band members in this department, tho. So it sounds even more selfish and control freakish in the press.

It's all a big red herring anyway. He probably just had a falling out with Joe Thomas and resents sharing credit/power/access/limelight with the others. So let him bask in the credit due him now as a bit of a jerk with a fun touring band.

OK.

Mike is obviously (and probably delusionally) interested in going back to the 1965 era though which was about Mike and Brian songs.

If he'd campaigned for Al and Bruce's songs then there would have been less room for Brian and Mike songs (obviously) and Daybreak woudl have been a very possible casualty surely.

I know it's grim to contemplate a dark, alternate universe where Daybreak Over the Ocean isn't on the album... but dare to dream, sir!

And why exactly would Mike have wanted that?

I dunno, maybe in this dark alternate universe, he wrote a better song with the others and it smelled a lot more commercial and was less of an archival retread.

That makes more sense than many of your posts. ;)

I'm afraid the emoticon doesn't do much to dress up your feeble attempt at an insult, and I think we could all do without a round of pointless personal insults when we're already pointlessly discussing the seemingly pointless machinations of men in loud shirts.

Stick to the bald guy.

Apologies if you took it that way. The emoticon WAS used as an attempt to emphasize that I was not being serious.

If you feel the thread is so pointless I'm not sure why you've made so many contributions to it though.

It may be the whole Beach Boys fan thing, Nicko1234. I might like to discuss their doings because I'm a fan. Thanks for apologizing and then slipping in one more little dig at the end, tho. That's pure class! Still totally distracting from the topic, suddenly it's about the confusing nature of my posts and why I've made so many contributions to this thread.

...and not about Mike Love and his fairly hard to defend idiocies. All I claimed was that if Mike tried to work with the other band members or stuck up for their input and group effort, it sure would've come off a lot more sympathetic now in the press as he railed against those shadowy forces around Brian Wilson keeping him from getting more song credits. It's not a particularly controversial comment.

OK. It wasn't a dig though just a simple question.

I don't think your stance is controversial at all. I just don't think it is realistic. If Mike had fought for Al's and Bruce's songs to appear on the album then there would have been less room for songs with a Mike writing credit. It certainly wouldn't have made it more likely for Brian to want to write together alone with him (something I'm not sure Brian does with many collaborators any more). And obviously Mike wouldn't have done it so that at some point in the future he could have looked good in the press.

It's the "always just Brian" part I disagree with..... It was Brian plus collaborators and band mates. Bands are organic things and post 67 it was never again just Brian (excepting Love You) .... If Brian could have had advanced enough technology in 1961 to record/sing all the parts himself and then go tour the world all by himself, then it would have always just been Brian.... Then again, if it had always just been Brian there would be no Beach Boys...

We know that is not the whole story and you know it. Brian was just as responsible for Waves of Love not being included. I wouldn't doubt he had something to do with Bruce's song, as well. Brian went into this album full steam. Even had most of the material written and recorded before the guys came in to sing. You can't lay that on Mike's lap. Plus, is Larry really gonna call out Brian with Al touring with him? Come on, think!

Who knows, it could all be absolute bullshit. All I know is here's yet another person who feels wronged by Mike Love! Arriving after yet another lousy Mike Love interview and round of bad press.

You should tell him that Brian is just as responsible on Facebook and see what he says. It's not my fault!

Altho, honestly -- f*** Clear Channel and it's miserable CEO. He can go cram a million units up his first quarter earnings.

Personally, I could care less. Al already released it anyway. This is the Internet. People write bullshit all over the place. Just look at how much unsubstantiated stuff gets posted here. At this point it is only his opinion. He hasn't backed up that claim in any way to believe it is totally true. 

It may not have set the world on fire, but for my money, "Daybreak" is not a bad song. I enjoy it enough that I usually don't skip it when listening through TWGMTR.

"Beaches in Mind," however, is utter middle-of-the-road trash. It attempts to skate by on its meager charms and inoffensiveness, but it sounds like Brian banged out three or four chords and called it a day. There is nothing special about this song, and I will wager that anyone on this board - musically inclined or not - could easily write a song like this within five minutes.

I would have preferred "Waves of Love" - it is also a bit bland, but at least it has a few decent melodic tricks up its sleeve, and clearly some sort of inspiration went into its creation. 

My best guess is that "Waves of Love" was rejected because 1) Brian wasn't comfortable with a Carl lead on the album, 2) It bears more than a passing resemblance to "Bye Bye Love" and "You're My Best Friend," 3) As implied earlier in this thread, Mike wanted a co-wrote with Brian, and that's why we got "Beaches in Mind" instead of something decent.

If we take "Beaches in Mind" as evidence - perhaps the most uninspired and mediocre tune to ever be credited to B. Wilson - it doesn't give me a lot of confidence in the abilities of Brian and Mike working together. Take your pick - shitty, middle of the road music, crappy lyrics.. It just sucks.

"Daybreak" stands head-and-shoulders above "BIM," as does "Cool Head, Warm Heart."  Both co-written by Mike Love, and neither of which involve B. Wilson. So, Mike should just write new material with Paul Fauerso or whomever...

The Wilson-Love ship sailed years ago for myriad reasons, including Brian's disinterest in writing with Mike, and Mike's uncanny ability to lapse into anachronistic, wrongheadedly "commercial" lyrics whenever he is writing for the Beach Boys.

Ok, some misunderstanding going on.

I said that Brian was the sole creative wellspring of the music back in the heyday of the Wilson/Love songwriting (1962-65). I mean that the music  began with Brian, not that it began and ended with him. I listed some of his songwriting collaborators -- I could go on to list the studio musicians, the recording engineers, not to mention the other band members, all of whom contributed to the finished product. But everyone here already knows all this.

My point is, if Mike wants to go back to how things were done in the glory years, which his recent interviews (the Guardian one especially) seem to imply, then this would not[/i involve Mike and Brian sitting around a piano, creative equals, writing an album from scratch. Maybe it would involve a song or 2 written together from scratch, but mostly it would involve Brian coming up with a melody, then a basic track, maybe the lyrics to the chorus, then asking Mike or Usher or Christian or Asher or Parks to work with him on the lyrics.

Mike wants to return to a past that never was.

One question: does anyone REALLY think The Brian Wilson Corporation desires to work with Mike Love till the cows come home? ...... I know it's easy to blame Mike because he can't shut up, but think about it ..... We're all upset at him for "firing Brian, Al, Dave, holding Bruce in indentured servitude" etc etc...... but who would likely have been the one getting his walking papers if things had gone as planned ........ ?

No, but for a few months he sure sounded like he wanted to record more Beach Boys albums and had Capitol's support. He seems pretty ok with Plan B, it's Mike Love grousing about 2012 now.


Al. Definitely Al.

SPLITTER!

(http://mlblogslimeytwinsfan.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/splitter1.jpg?w=210&h=113)

From my understanding: the Velvet Underground reunion ended in a way similar to this only no one was all that pissed....

Sterling Morrison bailed due to Lou's label (Sire Records) running the show and no one from the label would even look at any member of the band other than Lou, let alone address them or speak to them... Sterling hid out on his tugboat while Lou sent reams of faxes that varied from threatening to pleading.... Something like that. I know Maureen and John were annoyed as much as Sterl, but he was the only one who took action..... So, this sort of thing is not unprecedented.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here.

Yep, that's about right. Bad feelings all around and they still get tetchy about it. Lou wanted to be sole producer on the MTV Unplugged album or somesuch.

Lou Reed and Mike Love definitely have a lot of things in common besides nasality! Imagine the two of them stuck in an elevator.

Still, the initial thing that led to the VU reunion is kind of neat. I quite like Songs for Drella, certainly better songwriting than "Coyote."

Songs For Drella is a classic. John and Lou work very well together. Sad it can never last.

I actually used to know Lou's housekeeper in New York. She claims that John was at the house one night and he and Lou got in some huge argument unrelated to music or anything and she says John stopped on his way out and told her "I will never work with that man again" !!!!   This was before the VU reunion, mind you....

She actually said Lou is a really sweet guy and means well, but has serious paranoia issues. She worked for him for several years and said he was never anything but great to her. This was when he was married to Silvia and she said if they'd have more than a few people over for dinner, after about so much of it, Lou would take his plate with him into another room and sit and eat by himself because he'd start worrying people were conspiring against him..... Sad really.

Wow, Mike is damned if he does and damned if he don't. I hope the status quo is preserved and everything is nuanced to keep Brian the victim and Mike the asshole.  ::)

Totally off-topic, but yeah: I love that album.

:bow (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/11WZrMesc%2BL.Image._SS40_.jpg)

Don't worry, Mike will keep giving interviews.

I'm liking all this love for Drella. The last few times I mentioned it online or in person, I got a load of venom! How can you not love lines like "he lived alone with his mother, collecting gossip and toys."

Common ground at last! Now back to arguing. GRRR!

It's a Czechoslovakian custom my mother passed on to me" ....... :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-a5UKVoZpY

 :3d

I think Mike is hurting, he loves his cousin Brian and we know he's just a sentimental sap.

Key word, 'mental'

Just give Mike some doooooooooooooooos!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wZBQCWwAp9I

Props to Ontor's comments in this thread. 8)

I'll second that emotion-excellent logic and far above par reading.

norbit

The only sycophancy I accept is the kind that entitles me to scream "fly monkeys, fly!" once or twice a year and compel my cult to attack enemies.

 Otherwise what's the point, what's the point I ask you! Sorry for getting all ranty on this thread, guys. I'm at that pacing around point waiting for hours and hours of animation I shot to come back from the lab that I've never seen and rather than obsessing about whether it came out, I'm babbling about Mike Love and Brian Wilson as if they were saturday morning cartoon characters. Obviously, things are far more complicated that any of us suspect but it's sure fun to banter about it and try to guess. 

Oh, poor, poor Mike...instead of what he originally wanted, he ended up with a surprisingly solid album that went to #3.

Mike, babe...listen...you're 72 years old. Get over yourself. Ever hear of a saying, "Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans"? Sometimes "it didn't work out the way we planned it." Get over it. And maybe instead of whining to a journalist on a slow news day, you should fall to your knees and thank God or Maharishi or whatever that your cousin was there to make sure that you didn't have to make a career out of pumping gas.

Great link!! Was that the interview where he said he just wanted to write hits with his cousin?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgepFKVVKVE

Great post. I haven't had the time yet to read the three pages following this, but great post. Can't wait reading Mike's and Brian's announced books.

Mike needs to get a grip. There will not be anymore hits. Not in this day & age. They should concentrate on putting out GOOD, QUALITY music for their fan-base.

Agreed, TWGMTR was a glimpse of that.

OK, now my accolades on this post-
 :pirate :pirate :h5 :h5 :rock :love :love :happydance :happydance :kiss :kiss :woot :woot :thumbsup :thumbsup :wave :wave :hug :hug :king :king

The interview where he said he just wants to write hits with his cousin was from several several years ago: not from this hit-less day and age..... Maybe we ought to try and not look at Mike's dissatisfaction with recent events, TWGMTR as him merely longing for, trying to get back to a time long ago.... It could be as simple as he entered into a project with a certain, and quite small, demand/hope/expectation of what the writing particulars would be and they were not only, not to his liking, but quite the opposite of his liking. Anyone in such a situation has every right to take issue with that.... He should be forgiven for stupidly assuming Beach Boys "fans" would much rather have an album written (to a sizable portion at least) by Brian/Mike than a Joe Thomas/Jon Bon Jovi/Brian concoction. Even though we'll give Brian all the excuses and exceptions possible, Mike still should not be faulted for the described assumption.

The RS article documents Al pushing for Waves of Love and Brian not caring for it.

Besides, that cut-and-paste Carl vocal is unreleasable by all means.

So cute that you credit Brian third after Joe Thomas (the guy HE approached to join the project) and Jon Bon Jovi (who cowrote exactly ONE song). We get it. Poor Mike. He just wanted to write with his cousin. IN A ROOM. NO DARN BACKING TRACKS SENT OVER. WHO CARES IF THAT WORKED FOR "CALIFORNIA GIRLS", "GOOD VIBRATIONS" AND "WILD HONEY"!

But yeah, keep minimizing Brian's input into TWGMTR and making it seem like he's a useless shell of his former self that can't think and hates the stage and is trapped in his life.

Well, that wasn't intentional, but I'd venture to guess that imagining the Brian of 1965 presiding over the TWGMTR sessions would be equally silly.....Not that you think that.

I was just pointing out what might be going on in the guy's head, and it's pretty easy unless you just really want to hate Mike.... I mean think back to how you've felt at different jobs, or bands or relationships, family bullshit. I find our assumed (in the best case) Mike thought process here to be awfully relatable.....

If what Mike says is true about his agreement with Brian, then yes, I fully understand his position. To think that writing with Brian anytime after the mid-70s was going to produce hits, it just wasn't going to happen. Their most Beach Boys sounding release, Good Timin' only hit 40. I still haven't figured out why this occurred, except that like most rock bands, their time came and went. Anyway, I tend to believe Mike that Brian and/or his people reneged on their writing agreement.

I know it appears that I'm trying to defend Mike's perspective, but, really, I'm just trying to make sense out of it, to get inside his head and feel what he's feeling. There WERE these little "things" that happened every year or so that probably fueled Mike's fire.

In 1976, "It's OK" was a minor B. Wilson/M.Love hit (No. 29); some think it would've had more chart success if it would've been the lead-off single from 15 Big Ones. Then, out of nowhere, in 1978 "Almost Summer" charts, and Mike and Brian are on American Bandstand with it. I think the success of "The Beach Boys Medley" and "Come Go With Me" were two examples of what Mike was/is talking about; the music public will always welcome that kind of music - so thinks Mike. Even though Brian didn't write "Getcha Back", you know Mike was thinking "I told you so" when it went Top 30 and they performed it on Solid Gold. And then there's "Kokomo" which led to a syndicated TV series! Yes, there's a shortage of those little "things" after "Kokomo", but the Beach Boys didn't exactly release many new songs after that.

While a lot of people were waiting for and anticipating and hoping for the "deeper" Beach Boys' material, it never really came; not a lot of it anyway. But, when you look at their most popular songs, well, Mike seems to be involved with it. He will continue to believe in it, that type of song.

Be fair -- there was only one Bon Jovi co-write, and that was from '98. And 'Summer's Gone' is widely considered to be a fine song.

And we don't know what Mike/Brian co-writing arrangements were made prior to the making of TWGMTR, but Mike wound up with 3 co-writes with Brian. Compare this with 20/20 (1), Sunflower (3), Surf's Up (0), Carl and the Passions (2), Holland (1). So, Mike's 3 TWGMTR co-writes don't seem all that anomalous.

Joe Thomas contributes music as well as lyrics. Mike has come up with an ok melody or 2 over the years, but he's mostly a lyric guy. He's kidding himself if he thinks that Wilson/Love would have come up with better songs than Wilson/Thomas, or even Wilson/Thomas/Love. It's not 1965 any more -- Brian is not the same writer he was then, and neither is Mike.

And neither is Mick Jagger, Keith Richards, Bob Dylan, Paul Simon, Pete Townshend, Ray Davies, Paul McCartney, Smokey Robinson or Burt Bacharach. I get that Mike thinks if only he and Brian can gather around that piano and write together from scratch, magic will happen once again. But it won't.

Honestly though, wouldn't everybody agree that "That's Why God Made The Radio" was probably the most "Beach Boys" type single since "Getcha Back"? I mean, "Kokomo" is kinda just that late '80s islandy/Jimmy Buffett type thing, "Still Cruisin'" and "Problem Child" and the like were basically late '80s pop that coulda been done by anybody.

Facts are, singles just aren't that big a deal anymore. What was Paul McCartney's last top 40 hit? I'm pretty sure it's "My Brave Face". 1989. A year after "Kokomo" so yeah even though he has gone at least gold with most of his solo albums since then, singles don't chart for these kinda artists anymore. And even with the big current artists, I can't tell you what their hit songs are. Like I know Jay Z and Drake and Lady Gaga and whoever are popular, but I can't tell you what their hit single is. Music is too segmented these days. Bands have top 20 albums without any hits or anything even near a hit single. Look at Animal Collective or Grizzly Bear or any of these groups. Hit singles just aren't where it's at anymore.

It's a matter of opinion, but anything featuring a wailing Jeff Foskett and a John Holmes size load of autotune is going to sound FAR less beach Boys like than Kokomo or Getcha Back (my third fave BBs song ever) so, yes, it's a matter of, perhaps questionable, opinion.... Isn't It Time is way way way more Beach Boys sounding, to my ears.

But you and others are dead on about singles being basically nothing these days.

To The Sheriff's point: I agree. Nor would Mike likely block any deeper more meaningful Beach Boys music from being made.

The real question is, how much changed with doing the new album between when Mike & Brian agreed to do it, to when they went in to start recording. It sounds like Mike was led to believe it wasn't as finished as it turned out. Brian and Joe probably fleshed it out and started recording tracks months before Mike was fully aware of just how much music Brian had in the can.

Another version ...

(http://i.qkme.me/3visa1.jpg)

The only response I can offer, again trying to channel Mike's perspective, is that he, or specifically HE AND BRIAN TOGETHER, are different; they are the exception. You know the old saying that good music is good music. Mike probably feels that the music he and Brian can create would transcend time and trends. I think Mike's philosophy is based on the philosophy we've heard mentioned - by all the Beach Boys - in various documentaries. You know the one, where there will always be school and the beach and girlfriends and breaking up and cars and the simple joy of living. Mike grabbed on to that philosophy - and how it relates to his music - a long time ago, and he ain't gonna let it go!

Well man! All I can add to that (even though you're not really conversing with me) is, my girlfriend and I rode our bikes this past July 4th from West LA all the way down through Manhattan Beach and guess what we hard blasting from too many beach parties, volleyball games, beach-side stoops, to possibly count, along the way? ...... Fun, Fun, Fun, California Girls, I Get Around, Wouldn't It Be Nice, Little Honda, Surfin USA, Kokomo (not kidding) and on and on and on and on.......

Yeah, the point is Mike was told it was going to be a certain way by Brian. Somebody else kept that from happening.  Apparently, as always, Mike lumped it and did his bit anyway. Mike wants what Brian told him Brian wanted, the two of them working together in a room. It's not just a fantasy of Mike's, it's a desire expressed by Brian to Mike also. How did this get Houdinied into all of this other crap. Usually the board is ballistic over the merest suspicion that someone may have kept Brian from getting even the smallest of his desires.

Give me a fucking break.

"Mike wants what Brian told him Brian wanted." Were you there when Brian told Mike what he wanted to do? Or are you just assuming that based on stuff Mike has said in interviews.

Maybe Michael meant I just wanna get Brian alone in a room and hit him.

Your break is granted. Is there more information?

Well apparently you have it. You know the particulars of Brian and Mike's discussions before C50. Please share them with us Cam!

You have Mike's info. Is Brian denying it?

Denying what? That he's a brainwashed zombie who is manipulated by his wife and managers and Joe Thomas to not work with Mike Love? Why would he even want to tackle that one? He seems pretty damn happy with TWGMTR and the resultant tour and besides how it ended he's seemed pretty happy overall with it. No public complaints. Which would lead me to believe he's not as upset with not working with Mike IN A ROOM TOGETHER as Mike would seem to think. In fact, I doubt Brian cares at all that he isn't writing with Mike.

I'm also gonna throw this out there: I really do hope Mike does lose the license if Brian and Al wanna to take it away. And if Carl's estate is on the fence, then Brian and Al and their people should tell them to think about what their husband/father would do if he were here to decide. I think we know which side he would pick.

And I have the feeling that if The Beach Boys name were held aside only for full group events, and the the current groups would be separated into Mike Love's Endless Summer Maharishi Beach Band and Brian Wilson (featuring Al Jardine and David Marks) that Moneybags Johnston might even switch sides. I think if it were down to him and Mike slummin' around without the true Beach Boys moniker, he might just be a bit more interested in being on the other side of things.

No. Denying that he said what Mike says he said.

I don't share any of your views. They will do what they will do.

:drunks :woot :woot :h5 :happydance :wave :kiss :hug :thumbsup

Well, considering Daybreak and Beaches In Mind represented an absolutely appalling mid-album nadir for TWGMTR, all I can say is thank Christ they didn't let Mike contribute any more than he did....

With the exception of Isn't It Time, nothing Mike did on TWGMTR was any good. However, he seems to think we all thought the likes of From There To Back Again and Summer's Gone were awful and that we're all crying out for more lazy solo album retreads and hands-over-face-cringe-worthy lyrics.   

Y'know, if you make the list of the Beach Boys' charting hits in the US, Mike Love only wrote a minority of 'em.  :-)

He wrote more than anyone else, but not more than *everyone* else...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I can't say I've ever done the maths but that can't be true if you are only applying it to original songs I would guess? Also depends on how low in the charts you are talking about perhaps...

If you add up their US #1 hits, Brian only wrote a minority of 'em.

Three outta Four...

I'm guessing what you're saying here is that Brian wrote 3/4 of their number ones, while Mike was credited on all four. This is true. Now,  I wonder how many of those number ones also get consistently ranked in "All Time Worst Songs" lists? Oh wait! I think I know.

...compared to Mike's four outta four...

I don't think Help Me, Rhonda is that rank.

Jon - your every post is so polite.  And, even if I differ, you make it so civil a process.  Thank you. You're a star.

We can learn from your tolerance towards others.

Some BB -- BW-ML work were not all hits.  But, some have gone one to become unexpected, enduring classics. I was not using a "charting" formula, but just the most prominent, even if not Number #1 hits.  Mike still outguns them all. Context is always the first thing to look for when something is categorized. 

Thanks!  ;)

I do think the public deserves to know that if they want to relive the experience of the C50 tour, 11 out of 15 musicians on that tour make up the Brian Wilson band while the other four make up the touring Beach Boys.  It makes more sense the other way around, that Brian, Al, and Dave should be the Beach Boys while the other guys are The Mike Love Endless Summer Band or whatever he'd want to call it.

Rocky Raccoon - I'm just back from 3 shows in 24 hours. No tears for C50. It was an outstanding event, under an apparently different entity, for a specific reason and it came to a finish.

 People are delighted to see the Touring Band, and selling out in their old haunts.  They are working with City Year, and are very much in touring demand without all the drama.  Life is just simpler without all the drama and this band is better than when they temporarily went into abeyance for the length of the finite tour.  Someone else mentioned seeing them this weekend and had much the same impression. 

Fans have no inherent rights to know.  They are on a "need to know" basis.   ;)

Either way you're getting the BB experience. Mike does a fantastic job. Brian does a fantastic job. I'm happy seeing either

Except that I'm not sure any of the main players want it to be that way apart from Al perhaps.

Mike certainly wouldn't appreciate it, Carl's estate would lose a stack of cash and wouldn't it be a backward step for Brian? He has built up his own name since 1998 and has had considerable solo success so should he be in a group calling itself 'The Beach Boys' which isn't really The Beach Boys (and no Mike's current group isn't really The Beach Boys either)?

If Brian, Al and David are billed as original Beach Boys on posters then that would be a different thing and wouldn't really change much from the hardcore fans point of view (with the possible exception of pushing up ticket prices if they had to pay for it). But it wouldn't be doing Brian any favours to be touring in a non-authentic 'The Beach Boys' group.