The Smiley Smile Message Board

I saw Brian in Atlantic City on July 20th and tonight saw Mike at Turning Stone Casino in New York.  Very interesting to compare the two shows having seen them only a few weeks apart.  I went to both shows with the same two people.  I will say that I am definitely a Brian guy and have been for about 15 years.  I jokingly call him my "spiritual leader" to my friends when he comes up.  I think the world of his talent and life story. 

I also gained a ton of respect for Mike last summer at the 4 C50 shows I attended, (2 from the front row).  I never realized what a fantastic front man he is and imo strong and distinct singer.  I felt he totally connected with the audience in each of the 4 appearances I saw.  To me Bruce is almost a non factor, however I will give him credit for Disney Girls, it was pretty good (and that mic adjusting thing is no joke, it was a bit distracting)

Now to 2013.  I really didn't know what to expect from the Brian show but was crazily excited to get another chance to see him. 

I was totally blown away.  The experience had a magic to it.  My folks felt the same thing. 
Even my casual fan father noticed how invested the band appeared to be in doing this music justice which they did.  To see Al and David so actively engaged and sounding so good is precious to any BB fan.  Talk about authentic Beach Boys sound.

Then there's the crowd.  There is so much love (ha, no pun intended) in the air.  The love for this music and for Brian.  You can't deny it.  I feel like there's almost this undertone of - a bunch of people who all share this one thing in common coming together in the name of this music (call it what you will).  And then here's the guy who had to and continues to fight with demons to bring it to the world.  A guy who has truly beat the odds and stands as an inspiration of survival.  And a guy who has a god given gift for music at the center of it all giving it his blessing. 

Brian, the band, Al and David gave one hell of a show.  Everything you would hope to get from great art.  Life affirming.  Actually felt privileged to be a witness.  I'm really trying not to overdue this, but it was a great experience.

Mike's show.  Great band in and of itself.  Scott Totten has serious chops.  For me though, the star is John Cowsill.  Not only is he a great drummer, he has an incredible voice!  He could have his own band.  Also Christian Love sounded fantastic.  Compared though with C50 and Brian's, I must say it doesn't sound quite as full to me.  Not having winds is a big loss for me.  I also didn't think the vocal harmonies were as lush.  I'm not a huge fan of Jeff's falsetto but I thought he outdid Mike's guy.  The set list was pretty predictable and started exactly as the C50 shows did.  I was surprised that Mike didn't seem as personable as he did the other times I saw him.  I expected more banter from him.  Mike sounded fantastic imo.  Very strong, amazing for 72.  I just didn't get the same "magic" that i did from Brian's show.  The crowd at the Mike show was pretty subdued, very little dancing until the last few songs.  (The idiotic set up im sure had something to do with this as we sat at tables, ugh!) 

A couple things that annoyed me.  Mike never mentioned Brian even once and seemed to make a point of not showing Brian in pictures on the video screen with the exception of album covers.  However, Mike did make a point to stop the show and tell the audience that his friend John Stamos will be turning 50 on the 19th and showed a couple full screen pictures of the guy.  Seriously?

Then Bruce tells everyone how they're doing this new video thing and asks the crowd how they like it?  Huh?  All i noticed was a smaller low budget looking screen from the last time i saw them.  Why mention that?  They went on to play to Carl and God Only Knows, a real highlight.  Then they never played to Dennis.  I found that a little curious. 

Stupid beach balls, how annoying.  Several at Mike's, none at Brian.     

So conclusion?  Mike's show was good.  Not to disrespect the musicians at all but I can see how Mike is very business conscious in the way he puts his show together.

Brian's show seemed like it was done more for the music itself with a cast of incredibly talented and devoted artists.  One of the best shows I've ever been to.  Can't wait for October!

 PS  accidentally got to chat with a smiley smiler, enjoyed it.   

I'm saw Brian for the first time at Ravinia and loved it. I'm also going to see Mike and Juice for the first time at some county fair in Wisconsin. I know I probably won't like it as much, but who knows how much longer they will tour for.

it's really tough to defend or attend Mike & Bruce's act. no mention of Brian or Dennis, but a shout-out and video images of Stamos? what an embarrassment.

Brian's show was a little more hit-heavy than I had hoped but that's what most people want/expect to hear. I get it. Can't really complain when they played everything from Our Prayer and Little Bird to Old Man River and Your Imagination. Al and Dave just add that much more heart and soul to the proceedings, which are already brimming with love for Brian as was stated.
 

the two acts really don't compare. maybe each has its place, but Mike really shouldn't have exclusive rights to the band name.

honestly though, if that's what it takes to see Brian, Al, and David WITHOUT Mike & Bruce, I will gladly take it every time. They actually detract from the BB experience imo and I much prefer them off on their own stage at SeaWorld or wherever. let 'em go. Mike's ego is just too big to share the spotlight with, and Bruce is just so... Bruce.

I don't know why people give Mike's shows such a hard time. He's a true artist and his consistently creative set lists testifies to it.

Setlists which are not dissimilar to the BAD setlists.

Sorry, couldn't resist! :angel:

Wow, this is a problem with M&B that makes me dislike them a bit. There is more respect for Stamos than the creator of the music Mike sings. Plus add the tribute only to Carl. ::)

Other than a sarcastic one-liner from Jardine, did Brian, Al, or David ever mention Mike?

no denny tribute?!?!  >:( :o

Truth.

Wow, so Carl appears now at Mike's Beach Boys shows but three other living members don't? I can never say a shout out and tribute to Carl is a bad thing in any way, but that's kinda funny.

You have to remember that in here it is only bad when Mike does or doesn't do something. Brian? He gets a pass because, he's Brian. I haven't seen both shows, only Brian's in Atlantic City. It really did make a difference having Al & David on stage. It really did feel more like The Beach Boys than any time since Carl passed, except for last year, of course.

I saw Mike and Bruce in June near San Jose CA.  John Cowsill was once again on fire.  Excellent show.  At least as good as I have ever seen them.  Have tickets to see them again next month.  They are that good.
I really enjoyed hearing Isn't It Time and Wild Honey performed live. 


Also, I am Presently surfing for tickets to the October Wilson-Beck/BAD show in DC.

Anybody here bought tickets for that venue yet?  Do you have any suggestions for the best site to purchase tickets?  I'm not sure if the Warner box office sells tickets directly to the public via phone or if I have to buy from ticket master.

Mike didn't write and arrange the songs they perform.

Not that I've ever seen M&B (besides in the C50 lineup), but don't knock them until you've seen 'California Sun - The Tribute Band'. Started a thread about them a few days ago. Went and saw them in a park and it was just the most awful thing I've ever seen. They played live on top of tracks - drummer and all, which meant they were out of sync some of the time and the sounds didn't match up. I knew the words better than the lead singer, who actually had a lyric sheet in front of him!!! So, yeah, if I ever get to see M&B, I will have such a deep appreciation that they have a semblance of professionalism and that they respect the music that I love.

Didn't write any? Seriously? Come on, now!

Comments like this are what got AGD banned for a month. ;)

It's a bit of a different situation though. It makes sense for "The Beach Boys" to make a mention of Brian Wilson who had a tiny bit more to do with the band than Stamos did.

Brian's show is exactly that. It's Brian Wilson with guests Al Jardine and David Marks. There is no point in mentioning Mike. Brian, Al and David aren't touring as The Beach Boys.

Classy.

But if M&B showed up close enough to me I would give it a whirl. especially at the Belterra so we could dine at Jeff Ruby's before the show!  :p Yum!

On my old albums, a couple dozen of those songs say B. Wilson / M. Love  ;)

What happened could have been one show only. Mike mentions "Cousin Brian" quite a bit. Man, do we nit pick or what. It has to be from boredom, I suppose.

I was just commenting on someone else's post. I don't expect Mike to mention or praise Brian at every show.

Mike has indeed praised Brian at every show that I`ve seen.

As I recall, Mike regularly refers to "cousin Brian" during a song introduction at some point in a show.

I can't wait till I can truly weigh in on this topic in October after seeing Brian etc.

BUT I have seen M&B once this year, and have two more shows coming in September and can at least say...they show is better than it was Pre-C50 but obviously, it is not better than last year. Still, definitely worth seeing if you have the chance!

‍

I`m not sure about that. Firstly because the main reason is presumably because Forever wasn`t a hit. And also because over the years Brian and Al have both done tonnes of shows where they have dedicated songs to Carl but haven`t mentioned Dennis. This isn`t all that different.

Probably due as much about singing God Only Knows. The only big song Dennis did was Do You Wanna Dance. I doubt they have video of Dennis performing that one.

actually there is a clip of Dennis doing 'do you wanna dance' ........  they could have used that perhaps...

its the shindig performance..... they could use/edit that to make things work....... and especially if they have the audio multitrack, they

could isolate Dennis' lead vocal, and perform the rest live.........unless the vocal is not separated.......

this is the clip I mean..... poor quality thou

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nztxd92hl0g

Cheers, RickB

I wouldn't like that...I don't think Dennis would like to be remembered in concert not after night by "Do You Wanna Dance".......

It's my understanding that neither Brian nor Alan wanted their likenesses to be displayed within the context of the touring Beach Boys performances.  BRI archival footage and vintage photos of the group had been used as part of the video presentation for the first few shows of the summer tour that kicked off last month, but all of that material has since been taken down, with the exception of the Carl Wilson footage and photos used in the "God Only Knows" video.

Hence the reason they didn't get a mention perhaps.

That's interesting, because I noticed that Brian and Al were conspicuously absent from all the pictures during GOK at the show tonight.  I knew it couldn't have just been a coincidence.  Let the "Mike is trying to erase Brian and Al from the group's history lol" posts begin.  ::)

Also of note - before the gates opened at the show tonight, the band were doing their soundcheck (in plain view of everybody waiting in line) and they were rehearsing Forever, complete with Dennis vocal and pics on the screen.  They didn't perform it during the show, though. :-\

I think You Are So Beautiful would make sense, as that was his concert showcase for a long time.

Maybe Dennis's family didn't want it, just as Brian and Al didn't want to be featured.

I had the same experience with "Forever" in Baltimore on July 20th...Totten said they're working on it. But Bruce sang "God Only Knows" that night. Has it been done at an outdoor venue with M&B yet? It seems to me that they only have a screen inside.

I doubt they get any say.

Presumably the Dennis one will make an appearance when they feel the time is right.

They could also just use one of Dennis' studio takes and play live to that. I wonder if that wasn't what they did on "Forever".

You Are So Beautiful - that is Dennis' most eloquently performed song.  The ownership credit thing might be a problem, I don't know.  There are some which have appeared on YouTube.  And, Stamos, promoted Forever, covering it, and singing lead in Dennis' honor.  Stamos rocks in my book.  He worked with Carl, and that works for me. 

I've seen a half dozen or so Touring Band shows, and think they are evolving, and working hard on deeper setlists, and video.  GOK is still amazing, and provides a sense of C50 tributes, for those who couldn't get there. Dennis is visible in old footage.  Mike has given Brian credit throughout post C50. 

Totten, and the guys have done an amazing job post C50. They are re-energized and each show is better than the last. 

I have maybe a dumb question.  Who will be in the BAD/Jeff Beck tour photo op? Is it Brian and Jeff? Or, are Al and Dave included in the fan photo. Someone told me that when calling about the different packages, that it was only Brian and Jeff for the fan photo.  Thanks, so much, if someone can find that out.  ;)

John Stamos might be Mikes best friend but is Mike Love Johns best friend? - think we need to know  :lol

Not the point. Irrelevant. Issue is "tribute video for Dennis." I have no doubt they will find one that works for the fans, as well as for the band. 

I think Stamos brings a whole generation to the table, and who, probably without even knowing it, even with Brian in cameos on Full House, expanded the overall awareness of BB music, to a generation, whose brand was rap, hip hop, and country rock.  Like him or dislike him, Stamos worked with Carl's Beach Boys, likely learning much.  And, Carl did lead on Forever after Dennis' death.  But, Stamos put it into the "global marketplace" via the worldwide syndication of Full House.

Well. it was just a joke. Personally I couldn't care less about Stamos/Full House etc as it never even entered my consciousness growing up but I guess in America it likely was a starting point for people to get into the band and delve beneath the cheesy bs that was portrayed in the series.

On the other hand it also likely helped propel the Mike Love BB parody and put lots of other people off ever listening to the band.

The Ghost of Dennis Wilson requested his likeness not used as he considered it disrespectful. Especially if they were gonna segue into a Stamos birthday routine.

I'm going to the show tonight near Montreal, will let u all know how M&B behave ;)

If even one kid got turned on to The Boys through that show, then that is one more fan to add to the fold. The Beach Boys shows were going to be the same whether they were on Full House or not. You don't like the dumb show? Fine, but don't tell me that it didn't help their popularity to a younger generation. The music is the music no matter what the guys singing do. See, that is the difference with The Beach Boys, no matter who the actual band is or does, it is the music that shines.

yeah...pretty sure I didn't tell you that

My answer was strictly in reference to your last (parody) sentence. Many people will tell you that Mike's show, pre and post Carl were/are very good shows. So, where is the parody? Or were you just being a smart-ass and bashing Mike because it's the chic thing to do?

This is just weird. Two deceased band members are (or will be) part of the show, yet three other living members that wanted to keep all five together (and include the two members who have passed) are not part of the show? A tribute to Carl and Dennis is always a good thing. But will I have to wait for the death of Al Jardine and Brian Wilson to hear them sing ever again at a show billed as "The Beach Boys?"

good question

No it wasn't, your answer was in reference to what I said about the show. Don't twist it just for the sake of arguing.

Ok Carnac, what else am I thinking?

Exactly.  New generation of fans, and those shows are shown, globally.  Nick at Nite has Full House episodes on several times a day.  Other networks broadcast it as well. That is just the states.  They have been dubbed or are subtitled and distributed world wide.  That is about twenty years worth of those cameo episodes of Brian, Mike, Carl, Al and Bruce.  New kids, parents and grandparents who view with their kids, grandchildren and even great grandchildren.  That is power of Stamos.  And while people might not like it or him, it is still a far better viewing choice, than some of the violent drivel on air. 

Probably since the criteria is being a member who is deceased.

Maybe we could try and think of it as honoring loved ones.

Exactly. Stamos might not be to our taste but he draws a different crowd to the party that might not have otherwise been reached.

Great review of the July 27 show.
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/post/174134-brian-wilson-with-al-jardine-and-david-marks-27-july-2013-twin-citie/

Fair enough.

But why doesn't Mike wanna honor living loved ones, by, you know, continuing to play shows with them? Or will he just decide to be upset when they are dead? And then wish he could have worked with them more?

Come on...

You know very well why...

Let's not pretend like Full House was a landmark television show that was one of the classics of all time. It had it's run and it's relevance in 2013 is highly questionable. You can certainly argue it brought positive attention to the BB during it's run but I think it's very hard pressed to say in 2013 people watch reruns and suddenly become fans. It is now getting harder and harder to find on reruns even.

Depends which part of the world you are talking about...

You might want to check that fact out. Nickelodeon has 11 episodes on today.  That is Nick East.  Then there is Nick West.
5 1/2 hours of Full House.  One network in the States.  You also might run a quick wiki (good place to start) check on international syndication.  It is also on in UK, Ukraine, Turkey, Sweden, Spain, South Africa, Slovenia, Russia, Poland, Phillipines, Peru, Pakistan, New Zealand, Netherlands, Ecuador, Malaysia, Latvia, Japan, Italy, Israel, Ireland, India, Germany, France, Estonia, Denmark, Canada, Bulgaria, Brazil, Belgium and Austraila.

Think that is insignificant?  ;)

Well of course, we all know why (as much as any of us fans know) the touring bands are in the state they currently are. These comments are pointing out the irony of the situation, that's all. I'm not trying to be funny particularly in pointing out that the compromises that have to be made with Carl and Dennis to have them in a show are probably more easily agreeable than the compromises that have to be made with Brian's camp to tour with him.

I'm sure Mike likes the idea of paying tribute to Carl and Dennis. That's great. I don't mean that in a patronizing way. But it's also not a coincidence that they are a part of the show because it's *easier* to integrate that into the show than it is to keep the full actual currently-living band together. That's just another little irony in the Beach Boys' story. Pointing out this irony indeed serves no real purpose, but this is just a discussion forum where much if not most of what we say doesn't really actually mean anything other than all of us making our points and stating our opinions.

There is a lot of stuff that plays all the time on TV. "Full House" is not a forgotten item in the history of TV. But no, it is not landmark television, and the degree to which it is still relevant to bringing popularity to the Beach Boys' music is indeed questionable. If there are gen X'ers born in the 90's who fondly remember Stamos and "Forever", it is in the same vein as those "I Love the 90's" TV shows talking about the Spice Girls and Vanilla Ice.

One of those VH1 shows did a whole comedy routine one time talking about the "Kokomo" video, noting how they felt Al Jardine was David Spade's dad.  :lol

The criteria for what? The criteria for making a tribute? Since when does that criteria include being dead? TNT did a whole tribute show to Brian one time.

Can we honor living loved ones too? Especially those that want to keep the whole band together? And when I say honoring living loved ones, I don't mean Mike saying his cousin Brian is a genius. I mean playing with all of the surviving members.

Maybe you didn't notice that the two honored are deceased. Brian and Al are alive.

Spade is talented and cute.  They should be mutually complimented.  

Full House ran 8 seasons -192 episodes.  At 11 shows in one day, how long would it be before the Boys would be on? And, the kids would know the words to Barbara Ann? Not long.

Having spent many years monitoring TV with my own kids, from 1987 to 1995, each would have seen the prime time show at the age of from four to seven.  And I had no idea that Uncle Jesse had the Boys on the show, until I got the big shout that, "Hey Mom, the Beach Boys are on Full House!" and "Hurry!" It was a show that I was sure was non violent, entertaining, and always with some "moral" within the script.  And, the kids in my Kindergarten would come in with some tale about Uncle Jesse. And, their teacher "knew all the words" to Aruba, Jamaica..."

And your "landmark" argument fails with me.  Had the network no viewership, the show would have been dropped. The show seems to be loosely based on Trois Hommes et un couffin" the French film predecessor to Three Men and a Baby.  So, landmark, probably. And what is a landmark but that which becomes a staple or embodiment of some phenomenon of society?  And, "landmark" because it was a show that showed that kids could be taken care of by dads, who could generally match clothes, see that homework was done, and took time for some crisis or milestone in a child's life.  It was men's liberation. They couldn't wait for "mom" to come home, because she was deceased.  So many kids had to learn a new family model and a male as the primary caregiver.

Now, we have women in combat, and dads play a larger non-traditional role. Full House validates that newer family dynamic.  Go Uncle Jesse! Yes, landmark and historic in children's television.

What I find humorous about all of this is that, even as Mike criticizes the C50 tour in interviews as being too big, too much stuff, too much obscure music and too many people; he seems to be trying to re-create that magic in a stripped down way, even to the point tweaking the setlists and bringing in the video screens and tributes.

I can't blame Brian and Al for refusing to allow their images to be used. If Mike wants them in the show, he needs to actually, you know, put them in the show. The real magic of C50 was not in the frills and video screens. The real magic was having all of the Beach Boys back on stage together. And, I'm sorry, John Stamos just isn't an adequate consolation prize for the loss of Brian, Al and Dave.

Exactly and anyone trying to argue against your point needs to ask themselves the following question: How many stars did "Full House" spin off?  None that I can count.

John Stamos is perhaps the most successful of the cast and he is known more for the women he dates than anything else...NEXT!  Lori Loughlin?  I actually think Lori is pretty talented and remember watching her as a teenager on a soap opera called "The Edge Of Night".  I thought she had talent back then and still do now but the last thing I saw her in was the revamped "90210" where she was essentially still playing the same character she portrayed on "Full House"

The Olsen Twins were perhaps the smartest of the bunch sticking their fingers in as many pies as they could when they were younger so when their acting careers went belly up they had a lucrative fashion career to fall back on and are now millionaires many times over.  Good on them but two of the most untalented child actors to ever grace the screen in my opinion.  The rest of the cast went nowhere after "Full House" and while the show is fondly remembered by the generation that grew up watching it, to others it's a saccharine piece of trash.   That "moral in every episode" deal that filledeplage brings up?  Well that is essentially the number one reason why the show is absolute trash.  They focused so much on imparting their skewed version of wisdom and not enough on creating solid programming.  It's sad too because Miller-Boyett actually put together some entertaining shows in the mid eighties such as "Valerie" and "Perfect Strangers" but by the time they got to stuff like "Full House" or "Family Matters" they sacrificed substance for what they knew would draw ratings.  Seriously if you want to watch some good Miller-Boyett programming, go watch the first season of "Valerie" if you can find it.  It's miles away better than anything Miller-Boyett ever came up with for "Full House".

Sorry that this post got away from The Beach Boys but man oh man "Full House" sucks.

Oh yeah, that's another reason besides being alive that BA aren't honored in the same way as CD at Mike's shows, BA don't want it.

Stamos is still a viable celebrity, I believe he recently joined the cast of a US show [I don't watch it]. Full House still pulls an international audience. Whether we personally like it or not I believe it is an inconvenient truth that the association is not harmful to the group's legacy.

And the BBs cheesy image went into overdrive for being associated with the show.

I am going to take a lot of heat for this, but I think the BBs went on as a group for far too long.  

...and on the touring circuit 'The Opposition'.

Keep in mind Al claimed he, Brian, Dave and the band are 'the heart and soul of this thing' or words to that effect. So they may be playing different venues, dates etc but they are in competition for the same revenue. 

With all due respect who cares whether or not The Beach Boys were harmed by their association with "Full House"?  Did it really matter at that point?  They weren't exactly contemporary music at the time "Full House" was on the air so I can't see the pop pickers of the day really giving much thought to the band's association with a television show.  Stamos obviously loves The Beach Boys as much as everyone here and offered his buddies a chance to be on his show.  I don't get what the big deal is?  Is it the fact that Stamos recorded with them on SIP?  Probably not the band's finest hour but pretty harmless at the end of the day.  Personally I thought The Beach Boys' appearance on "Home Improvement" when they were brought in as Wilson's cousins (a great bit of casting if there ever was) was a heck of a lot more entertaining than anything they did on "Full House" because they were given a better storyline and actors who could make The Beach Boys involvement in the plot actually entertaining.  On "Full House" it just seemed like they were there for the purpose of making a cameo appearance and that was it.

But at the end of the day John Stamos' intentions were good, if it helped The Beach Boys sell a few more records that was fine too.  If it damaged their legacy?  Well by the time The Beach Boys appeared on "Full House" they didn't need John Stamos' assistance to help damage their brand that's for sure.  

I for one am not worried about their legacy. Their legacy is strong  through generations, continues to be strong, and is on-going.
 
Edit: All of their individual behaviors collectively should have killed their legacy decades ago but it seems to be assured for the ages in spite of them.

I see John Stamos's relationship with the group more as taking advantage of his friendship to play on stage with them rather than to appeal to a younger audience.  Full House hasn't been on the air in nearly two decades and its popularity with my generation is more based on its ridicule (a so bad it's good kind of thing) rather than its being quality television. 

John Mill - Full House was the third spinoff from the French film from a few years earlier.  The American film with Danson, I think was a big hit as well. We aren't talking intellectual.  We are talking major network, prime time, and I taught in a housing project of a very poor city school system where the kids did not have cable, but a lot of bad and violent influences.  Many were being raised by grandparents or extended family because their parents OD'd or died of HIV, before good treatments were available. We're talking late 1980's and early 1990's.   So, the choices of non-affluent families were few.  

When you have nothing and are poor, and there is some non-violent family friendly show on, for free, it's a good thing, in my book.  

The Band was not in Pet Sounds mode.  They were approaching their 50's and finding creative ways to reinvent, perhaps and, cameos were one very effective way of making this happen.  In the long view, it's might be just an "episode" (pun intended) of "staying in the game," no more than touring.  Movie sound tracks started picking up the music like Troop Beverly Hills and commercials for cleaners such as 4-0-9.  Heady and intellectual? No, but they were "Still Cruisin'"

And, Full House was a show that kids looked forward to, no less than the many developmentally delayed special needs population who, are part of our society, as well, and they got into the music from old ( yeah 50 is nifty!) Uncle Jesse.  You don't have to love or even like him, but it's always nice to give the devil their "due."

Some of that non-traditional stuff kept them in the public eye, so they got to C50.  Perhaps it was part of "the village" that kept them out there.  

I don't mind that they did a guest spot on the show way back when, it bothers me that Stamos, despite being a mediocre singer and musician, feels he's entitled to play with the band when he feels like it.  He's not a rock star, he's an actor and there's no reason for him to be up there.  At least he had the decency to stay away from the C50 tour (well, for the most part at least).

I respect your opinion, I just don't happen to agree with it.  "Full House" in my opinion is still garbage and perhaps the nadir of family programming that has ever been successful on any large scale.  I think in 1990, when "Beverly Hills 90210" hit the air and was such a huge success it showed all these other creators such as Miller-Boyett how far removed they were from what the average teenager in the United States at that time was going through.  The newspapers were reporting on these issues every day but the television fare at the time wasn't reflecting them.  While it's true that many people use television as a method of escapism from real life, I've always believed that the option should be there for television shows to be used as a source of information as far as reflecting some of the issues it's audience is facing in their lives.  Shows like "Full House" offered nothing except the satisfaction that whatever problems those characters were having would be solved within the span of thirty minutes.  While that formula had worked for years by the late eighties/early nineties it was becoming downright insulting to a generation that were dealing with much headier problems than the ones that were explored on shows like "Full House".

Again it took 90210 awhile to take hold as first they had to wade through a season of after-school special type nonsense which didn't find much of an audience.  But by the end of the first season they really started to make their show more in step with a lot of the issues that teenagers were facing.  Were they perfect?  Heck no?  Was there a fair share of crap on that show?  Heck yeah!  But the bottom line is that show changed how younger audiences were marketed to in a very positive way.  Suddenly you had less shows like "Full House" and more shows like "Party Of Five" which sought to address issues instead of promoting fantasy.  Gone were the "Very Special Episode" garbage that typified eighties television where a legitimate issue would be addressed within the span of one thirty minute episode and then quickly forgotten about the week after.  Even the TGIF shows eventually fell in line with "Step By Step" presenting the topic of a blended household (if that is even the right term I'm not sure) in a way that was far more realistic than "The Brady Bunch" could've ever hoped to be.  "Boy Meets World" although campy enough in it's own right by the end of that series was really treating it's audience with a great deal of respect in addressing issues which shows like "Full House" didn't dare go near. 

I'm not saying there isn't room on television for shows like "Full House" but shows like that and "Seventh Heaven" do not present an accurate view of reality from where I stand.  They are distorted and in the case of "Full House" again it is unfortunate because Miller-Boyett were capable of some really good programming. 

There were other shows they did cameos on. One was Jack Klugman's "You again?" - Stamos was in that one as well. It ran from 1986 to 1987 just before Full House. The Boys did cameos on that show, as well. Dennis died at the end of 1983.  Big void.

Stamos had name recognition, and while he was NOT Dennis, he did drum, and in my opinion helped lift the huge mantle of grief for at least some of the fans, by helping keep the music alive in another emerging context called VH1 and MTV as well as being someone who seemed very much in awe and eager to learn from the band. That is just my lowly bystander read.  I remembered him from the soap General Hospital where he got his start with Demi Moore.  He wasn't a stranger to me.  

People were asking for him on C50.  I was lucky to see a bunch of the shows. Have car - see Beach Boys! But, what is impressive is that he is so down to earth and seeks out the developmentally delayed audience.  I know teachers who teach regular education and get "very nervous" around special needs students.  But, Stamos has a certain "way" with them, who are perfect strangers, who only know him from TV (Full House) and call him "Uncle Jesse" and not "Mr. Stamos."

I guess if he was good enough to tour with Carl and Brian, when he was with them, then he is good enough for me.  He is a team player on stage and does a pretty funny "tag-team" thing with Mike.  A-OK in my book for all of the above reasons.  

To those who think Full House is not still on TV, check Nickelodeon website.  For those people who have little comprehension of time, space, and world news, Uncle Jesse is a "player" in their everyday lives.  And when they might meet him at a show, it is Christmas for them.  To them, he is a hero.  Good guy!

So what? Whatever the reason, if Mike wants him on stage, then he'll be on stage. No taking advantage of anything. We are the only one who ridicule. Most people at the shows enjoy his presence. Man, we'll argue about anything.

No we won't.

Full House may have sucked balls, but Bob Saget is the freakin' man. Anybody who only knows him from Full House and America's Funniest Home Videos needs to see his stand-up act.

I strongly disagree - I've seen his stand-up and find him extremely distasteful. He's just works too blue and it comes off as a cheap, tacky way of ridding himself of the clean-cut image of Danny Tanner.

The group appearing on Full House did nothing to tarnish their image.

They started out appearing in any TV show or movie that would have them (were Karen or Monkey`s Uncle really so different?) and playing at county fairs. That`s what they went back to.

They were never The Sex Pistols...

Well Brian (or Brian's "people") sure didn't care much for ol' Stamos last year, when he was apparently dancing around with a petrified looking little girl like a jackass at one their shows, and then was apparently nowhere to be seen after certain members of the backup band basically made Rolling Stone aware of the fact that this was pretty fuckin' lame, especially for a group that was trying to celebrate 50 years of music.


I don't know about that. All I know is that a lot of my friends (the type who might own Pet Sounds and Classics selected by Brian Wilson, but are not huge fans), think John Stamos continuing affiliation with the group is embarrassing. These are the kind of people, when talking about their favorite music would list "Brian Wilson" but not "The Beach Boys", because "The Beach Boys" to them are those tacky assholes who are bald, have ponytails, and have cheerleaders on stage. I'm not saying these people are right (they obviously don't get the full picture), but they definitely exist. Brian Wilson may have risen to incredible heights these past 20 years as far as getting recognition for his great work, but The Beach Boys as a full entity? There is still some rehabbing to be done on that.


Just as I said responding to drbeachboys's post, it sure has (and still does) for a lot of non-hardcore fans.

These people are unlikely to go to watch Mike and Bruce in concert surely.

It`s done them a lot more good than harm that`s for sure. How many views of John Stamos`s Forever on Youtube?

Look, many of you think the Beach Boys are only Pet Sounds and Smile. Sorry to break to you, but that was 2 years out of 51. Since the Washington D.C. fiasco in 1983, they have tried to portray themselves has a family friendly band. You don't go on Stamos' first show, Full House and Home Improvement unless you are looking to advertise yourself as such. Why you guys insist on making the band something that they are not and really never have been is beyond comprehension. It's like you're in denial.

Also raps....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B_n9YaAMmg

Stamos is a blight on the band and its legacy.

He has surely turned off tons more people than he ever might have attracted.

The actual people who care about music are actively (and still) repulsed by his presence. These are folks who turn on others to the music, folks who become die-hard fans, folks who care. These are the most valuable people any band can have as fans, and Mike has driven them away with this tomfoolery.

The people who like Stamos are those who have purchased two CDs in their entire lives, one of Billy Ray Cyrus and the other an ABBA Gold collection.

Or that we care about the band's actual important work.

I can't believe that anyone on a Beach Boys fan board would try to argue that Pet Sounds and Smile aren't the peak of their legacy as creative musicians. Hell, even Mike agrees with that.

Stamos gets more wasted print on this site than anyone except Mike. Another derailed thread.

I've been a fan for 45 plus years, and John Stamos makes no difference whether I like the band more or not. Wirestone, do you really dislike the music more after Stamos has been in the picture? Except for one song, is he any records? Is he on any live CDs put out by the band? I have gone to about 35 plus shows over the years and I've seen them with Stamos a couple times. And except for a couple tunes when first introduced and the encore, basically stays in the background playing percussion. He's made no impact on my fandom whatsoever.

While great, I like their whole body of work. I listen to many more of their albums besides Pet Sounds & Smile. Neither rank in my Top 5. While I recognize their immense importance, they are not the only fantastic music that the band created.

Yes.

But my point isn't about people who are already fans, or who come to fandom through different ways. I'm talking about people whose image of the band is defined by Kokomo and Stamos. And for folks that that, the Beach Boys will always be purveyors of cheesy nonsense. It's off-putting in a real, profound way.

Count me in as one of those people who avoids calling myself a Beach Boys fan because of this stuff. I have been, am, and will continue to be a Brian Wilson (and Van Dyke Parks) fan. I also enjoy the voices of Carl and Dennis Wilson, and of Al Jardine, and sometimes Mike Love and Bruce Johnston.

But I am deeply uncomfortable with labeling myself a Beach Boys fan. Not as they've portrayed themselves for the last couple of decades. Too much baggage.

Wirestone, I agree with you about the BBs image of 1985-1998. It was Brian's solo tours that brought new found appreciation of the BBs back catalog.

Even M&B agree with their setlist being deeper than it was from 1998-2004.

Wow! What bad affect did Stamos have on C50? Lots of people went to the shows knowing Stamos was touring with the band since the mid-80s. Audiences had a great time celebrating the event. They even had to add 23 more shows. To hear you, nobody should have showed up due to Stamos' past affiliation. Listen to me, Stamos means nothing! Never did, never will.

I don't think The Beach Boys are only those albums. Just as I don't think they are only '62 through '65 and "Kokomo" like Mike does. However, I made a point that there are a lot of people that would probably be interested in a Beach Boys that included all their living members and played a bigger selection of their music. Unfortunately one of the members of the group doesn't wanna do that, so I guess they'll have to make due with a Brian Wilson show.

And yeah, they promote themselves as "family friendly". No problem with that. The Beatles sure do these days. Even the Stones kinda do now. However, it seems like some certain members of the group are more satisfied with a trashy, know-nothing Wal-Mart audience, rather than just trying to make the group a bit more classy. I thought C50 was a nice medium. It was something that definitely appealed to the know nothings  as well as those who are truly fans of more of the groups work.

Oh, so now we're snooty. Too good for the Wal-Mart crowd. Where the f*** did this come from?

Seaworld
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81sslMEFf8c


Its just M&B don't carry themselves as 1960s legends, but as a 2nd tier group from that era.

So it just comes down to anti-Mike feelings again really doesn`t it?

And Brian & Al reap the profits of that 2nd Tier group. I'll say this much, they make themselves available to whoever wants to see them. They don't gouge their fans with outrageous prices either. 

It just I want to see the BBs on top with all the guys together, not one original member and a replacement member touring smaller venues. I don't think BW overcharges either.

Technically, they have rarely been together in concert for their entire career. The dysfunction will end when they are good and ready and not before. It has never been a prerequisite of my fan ship.

Yep those snooties abandoned the group over Stamos and the white trash of course couldn't keep up the group's rep as one of the World's most revered bands and the group's legacy alive with the group as a relevant force for 50 years. The Beach whos?

funny you mention that. I think that is what most of these arguments are about.

I might have to take the responsibility for derailing. My point was just to say Stamos today does nothing for the BB really either way because Full House is not attracting new audiences  to the BB  ( nor do I think people are being turned off from them cause of Stamos) regardless  of how many times it reruns in Papua New Guinea, Lichenstein, or the South Pole. Working in a school I can tell you, the kids have no real knowledge or interest in the show or it's stars in 2013, it's not 1991.

Unfortunately, the truth in this is that, at least here in Germany, my favorite band doesn't count as one of the most revered bands. There is a three week city festival going on in my city at the moment, with lots of tribute cover bands, including the Beatles, Depeche Mode, Queen (2 different even!), Johnny Cash, Tina Turner, and U2. No Beach Boys. I've seen a 60s cover band from abroad puzzle their audience with "Surfin' Safari" some years ago which was actually the first time I heard that song live, being probably the only one in the audience who knew the song.

Tpesky- You are correct that it is not prime time tv, and the kids are watching other things, before they channel surf to Nick at Night. And it is age-driven. I was with very young children. Special Needs might follow that model as well, commensurate with their respective skill level.  But they are "players" in the game still with the Nichelodeon Kids' Choice Awards, and slime stunts. Will Smith, Sponge Bob, Miley Cyrus, Selena Gomez, Britney Spears, Hillary Duff, Drake Bell, Whoopi Goldberg, Rosie O'Donnell, and Jack Black (Mr. School of Rock) have hosted the show.

 There are Kids' Choice Awards in Mexico, Brazil, UK, Australia, and Indonesia. New in 2012 is Argentina.  If almost 50% of the program delivery, on one coast, and most people have Nick East and West on Cable/Satellite, how can their importance be minimized? And, the categories now number 26 for voting.  Josh Duhamel hosted in 2013. They have a Big Green - Help award. They are players. And as long as those shows are still in rotation, the Boys' music will still get promotion, and more followers.

Purists might not like him. That is fine. But, his association with the Band, cannot be denied or spun away.  Back-in-the-day, there were no "Brian" people or "Touring Band" people.  Sorry to acknowledge that even exists.  Those were conscious choices made post-Carl's death.  The first and second generation (I consider myself somewhat 2nd generation, as my first album was Pet Sounds) fans can't even comprehend this whole concept of "split allegiance."  The music exists "as one."

This is intolerance, that is becoming intolerable. Just sayin'.  ;)

Who cares about Stamos, he is only at concerts. Fifty years from now nobody will knock their musical influence and importance because Stamos toured with them in concert. Do you guys really believe that your opinions hold that much weight that everybody in the world should feel like you do about it? Come on now, he means nothing to their legacy. Sure, they will be remembered as a great live band, but they will mostly be remembered for what they put on tape. Their everlasting legacy will be the music, not who toured with them.

 :lol probably true.  And a bit of a shame; I'm no fan of the Stamos-type-image of the band (although I have grown to enjoy Kokomo).

But...


 :o Awww, come on really??

You can't be a Beach Boys fan for all the stuff that has made them so great over the years?  The way they rocked in the early days, the artistic heights of Pet Sounds/Smile and the next few albums, the way they rocked again during the Fataar/Chaplin years and of course the great C50 where everybody played their part.

Maybe it is a little different for me living in the UK where Mr Stamos is not well known.

That is highly intolerant, offensive and biased. Evidenced by "actual people who care about music?" "Folks who care?"

Care about what, exactly?

Folks who bought the vinyl?

And who support and appreciate all the configurations which were deliberate and established entities? 

"Blight" is a value judgment.  It is a poster's right to venture an opinion that you don't agree with, and not be greeted with condescension and vitriol.

We can disagree without being disagreeable.  One would hope.

I seriously doubt that.

Absolute nonsense.

Well, not that it matters much at this stage, but it seems the Stamos discussion split off into two separate arguments. One is how much Stamos helped the band’s image back in that era of the late 80’s/early 90’s. The other is what he adds to anything now.

The band certainly got more visibility due to the “Full House” association back in the late 80’s/early 90’s. How much? That’s obviously not measurable. “Kokomo” was already a hit when the band made their first appearance on “Full House.” Also, are we forgetting that the BB project that got the most direct cross-promotion on “Full House”, which was the “Summer in Paradise” album via Stamos’ version of “Forever”, totally tanked in terms of sales? Stamos aired the song in numerous episodes, with and without the BB’s, even plastered the “SIP” album cover poster on a wall on the show, and the album literally didn’t even chart in the Top 200. The evidence that we have at hand suggests Stamos did very little to help the band’s critical successes or new album sales. He actually hurt the band critically and in terms of reputation. Did he help sell hits albums or concert tickets? Unlikely, as the troves of people going to concerts in that era (or any era) do go primarily to see the band. Some fans of a certain age may have enjoyed seeing Stamos, but they weren’t going just to see him.

What does Stamos add now? Even less, if anything. He’s Mike’s buddy. We can’t even say Stamos is a good musician, as even one of the band members (not Al or Brian) said in an interview back around 2000 or so that Stamos didn’t really practice or even try. Clearly musicianship is a hobby for Stamos, not a profession. I would imagine the staff on “Full House” would have been annoyed if Stamos brought Brian Wilson in to act in ¼ of the season’s episodes, so I wouldn’t be surprised if at least some of the musicians in the BB’s touring bands haven’t always been a fan of having Stamos there. Of course they can’t say anything, because Mike Love is buddies with him. I’ve seen Stamos play and sing. His singing is fine, his musicianship is mediocre at absolute best. When he would attack the drums at shows in the 90’s, I would actually wish for Kowalski to take back over, which is saying something, because Kowalski’s drumming wasn’t too great at that stage either. I think it was Howie Edelson who discussed Stamos’ musicianship and his appearance at one of the C50 shows, and that review summed it  up well. Stamos is Mike’s buddy, he hams it up on stage and pretty much does whatever he wants, and it’s no coincidence that his presence was a thousand times more awkward playing with the C50 band, which was the most non-cheesy, musically and vocally substantive tour the band had done probably since the 70’s.

Stamos is to me just a humorous curiosity. I doubt Stamos’ presence was a factor in anything to do with the C50 tour. But the clash between Mike and Brian and their respective “camps” and respective “audiences” is probably epitomized by Stamos on the C50 tour. He played one night, clearly was ill-at-ease melding with that particular band, showed up the next night much more subdued, and then was not much seen or heard from again. I would guess Brian’s “camp” and the touring band at least  politely let the organization know that Stamos was not a welcome addition. Then guess what? Literally one day after C50 is over, Mike and Bruce are back with their “Beach Boys” and Stamos is there. Stamos is largely irrelevant, but he ironically does represent how the two “camps” with the Beach Boys differ in some ways.

Where did you read all of this different camp stuff at? My feeling is that the show was already jammed packed with songs as well as musicians. No need for another. We sure read a lot into stuff without a fact to go on.

There were comments in an article about Brian`s band not being happy about him being there.

Ok, so? I doubt that they have much say who the Principles want on or backstage at a show. Were there issues with Taylor Mills too? Did Mike's band people have issues with her being there? Kind of sounds like nonsense to me. Oh well, no big deal with Stamos either way. :)

I don't believe Taylor Mills stayed for nearly the entire show, or shared mics with everybody, walked around the stage as if the sixth Beach Boy, etc. As I believe Howie Edelson said his companion at the show stated, Stamos appears to do whatever he wants on stage. Do the backing band have a say? Not a ton maybe, but Brian's guys probably had the ear of Brian's camp/people.

Didn't Taylor Mills just pop up to sing along during an encore like several did during the tour (Dean, Billy Hinsche, etc.)? That's not what Stamos's role was at the shows he appeared at.

Just what was Stamos' role on stage at the C50 shows that he appeared at? My understanding was that he filled in on Forever after the video went down. He was at 2 shows out of 73 and this is a big deal why? He is insignificant. Just a guest on the concert tours. He has no impact except to help put fannies in the seats, at least at the onset of appearing with them.

It's apparently a discussion of his impact in various ways on the band and its fans. Does he help sell tickets? That's part of this discussion, and it's on-topic since we're talking about the band. I don't think he sells tickets, if for no other reason than he isn't reliably in the lineup. He pops up now and then. One doesn't even know if he's going to be there when they buy tickets.

Does he or has he negatively impacted the band in any way? Attendees at the C50 shows he attended felt so, at least some did to some degree. He was apparently a distraction to some fans and perhaps some band members.

The fact that Mike name drops him so often is of even less consequence. Some feel it's tacky I guess, just like some feel the cheerleaders were tacky, or Mr. T drumming was tacky, or the "we're old" jokes are tacky. That's all.

Did Taylor, Dean, and Billy sing on stage during the C50? Don't remember hearing about that.

Personally, I don't care if he's there or not. He does not impact on the music or the show except for one or twp songs. If Mike's likes him there, then so be it. No skin off my nose. He does not affect their legacy, so his presence is superfluous. This has been The Beach Boys since the eighties. No use worrying about any of it 33 years after the fact.

Taylor sang at the Darien Lake show.  She did a short vocal intro to Marcella (basically a wordless snippet of Please Let Me Wonder), sang on Marcella and then left the stage until the encore.  If I remember correctly, she came out for Barbara Ann and Fun Fun Fun as well.  At the very least she was there for Fx3...

Taylor hung out for the encore at Darien? Huh. Never realized that. I was hustled out by my brother and friend and wife so we could hightail it back to the campsite for bourbon! I will have to look up the intro to Marcella, as well as Marcella itself. Never realized the intro was a musical pun, and didn't really notice her contribution to the song itself at the time.

I think it depends on the show. Sometimes it has been announced in advance (with even his face on the posters) and several posters have said that there have beeen people screaming for Stamos.

As for Full House itself, I can well imagine that he helped the group to shift some best of albums at that time. I`ve met people who`ve said that The Beach Boys are their favourite group and that Forever is their favourite song (not Dennis` version).

I love SmileySmile.net. Each thead is like a classic Simpsons bait-and-switch - click on the fifth page of posts, and you'll find people talking about something that is, at best, tangentially related to the original topic.

Since we are now discussing John Stamos and his effect on the group, I will put in my two cents.

I have respect for Stamos as a human being, due to some of the very worthy, lesser-known charitable causes he has been involved with. He seems to be a decent guy and he doesn't usually draw a ton of publicity for his good works.
When it comes to The Beach Boys, Stamos seems to be a huge fan who acts like a kid in a candy store when he gets to join them on stage. It is certainly endearing, and I don't think he is trying to annoy anyone or step on any toes.

Last year during the C50 show I attended, John joined the group onstage playing drums for a significant portion of the show, before he took the lead on "Forever."

Stamos certainly isn't a terrible drummer - he can keep time and he has decent feel - but his drumming was superfluous. The C50 band had an incredibly tight, professional rhythm section, and it seemed like they threw Stamos into the mix for our show because he is a "superfan" who happens to be a musician. As a result, John Stamos' drums were the only extraneous sound coming from that stage. 

I believe it was during the end of the main set, or perhaps the encore, that Stamos started to annoy the other guys, specifically Jeff Foskett. Something along the lines of Stamos joining in on Foskett's mic. Jeff did not look happy about it. I remember thinking that Jeff must have complained during the break between songs, because after that, Stamos left him alone.

I think what it comes down to is this - the C50 Beach Boys tour was, for many of us, a celebration of all aspects of the group; not just the big hits, and not only the artistic triumphs, but all of their history, mixed together in a lengthy, eclectic setlist...

...and played by "The People Who Own This Music," not in terms of the intellectual property rights, but in terms of the right to represent THE BEACH BOYS. These people earned that privilege by bringing the group's music to audiences around the globe for decades - people like Brian Wilson, Mike Love, Al Jardine, Bruce Johnston, David Marks, Jeff Foskett, Darian Shahanaja, Scott Totten, John Cowsill, Probyn Gregory, et. Al.

Every one of these gentlemen demonstrated on the C50 tour that they know how to treat The Beach Boys' music with the respect and loving care it deserves. Every one of those people has the band's music coursing through their veins.

By the same token, John Stamos loves The Beach Boys, and he is indeed part of their history, to the point that I would find it odd if he didn't show up at any C50 dates. For instance, it's nice that he popped up to sing "Forever." Whatever our opinions about Summer in Paradise, Stamos did sing that song at the time, and Dennis is, of course, not around to sing it today.

That said, we simply had far too much Stamos mixed in with our Beach Boys. Much of what he added was unnecessary. It seemed incongruous to me that The Beach Boys prepared such an intricately arranged, well-rehearsed set, only to have a 'superfan' onstage, excitedly living out his fantasies for much of the show.

Stamos didn't ruin the show or anything - it was an incredible experience - but I think this perception, coupled with our widespread aversion to early-1990s Beach Boys, explains why people dislike Stamos when he jumps onstage with the group.

Taylor Mills had been doing that vocal intro part to "Marcella" for a number of years at Brian's solo gigs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9tHJcs7UB4

Here is the incident in question.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUkxNVV-QJI&list=ULHOFUWy_DZjk

Of all the singers onstage that night, he was the only one who had the sense to take the lead and continue. Was it a jack-up? Doubt it. Did the others know the words? Probably. But to the guys credit he, no one else, stepped up.

I saved myself a lot of time not reading any of the John Stamos related posts. ;D I never watched his TV show in my life, if it wasn't for this board I wouldn't know his name.

Holy crap! That is one rockin' version of Marcella, as it should be. The C50 version seemed kind of limp. Thanks!

Well, as they say, "the camera doesn't lie."  Glitch occurs, Stamos reacts, finishes the song, smoothly, while things are going haywire with the video, controlled by another areas of the venue.  Good for John.  Mike deferentially stepped aside for Dennis' tribute song, which Stamos popularized further, advancing it to the global marketplace. 

No good deed goes unpunished.

Well, the problem, to me, was that Stamos was a guest musician at someone else's gig. It wasn't his place to "fix" anything. I'm not buying the idea that there was no contingency plan in place should the videos go down. Usually, in live performance's I've been in, you wait a few for the tech guys to figure it out. If they can't make it work, you go to plan B. Taking charge onstage and doing "Plan B" would have been the stage manager/show manager's call. Not John Stamos'.

Precisely. It was not Stamos's song to sing, especially not at a C50 show. Better an instrumental version than yet another desecration.

In the absence of video and audio, what did any other band member do?  John was like a lifeguard jumping in the deep end.  (That job I would know.) This is not a time to have a "summit" over who was going to fill in the spot. You don't think; you just react.  If you hesitate, someone drowns.  Your training makes you react.  All those years on screen and on stage when something goes wrong, and Stamos has learned to jump in and get the job done.  He swung into action where he saw a need, that would have caused embarrassment. 

If Bennett saved the day (and I think he is pretty cool;) he'd be a hero. But, but because it was Stamos, he was a villain.) It is just not objective reasoning.  The Band seemed pretty happy that he did.

And it was and is his song, too. Check out YouTube.  Well over a million hits.   Hating him won't change the minds of all the fans who are in BB fandom because of Stamos.  You won't change that, either.  This is not high minded rocket science. 

That's just as stupid a plan as I have ever read. Remind me not to go swimming with you after the life guard goes home. You and Cincie would let me drown by your thinking. ;)

Well, if there was a "plan b," they sure were taking their sweet time putting it into action.  It's not like as soon as the screen went down Stamos ran onstage, kicked Al in the balls, stole his microphone, started blowing kisses to the girls in the front row and sang the song.  There was more than enough time for anybody else in the band to jump in and nobody did.  From the looks of it, he was just as surprised as anybody else.  Maybe somebody backstage grabbed him and shoved him out there?

Here's a better question: who cares?  And why did I just write an entire paragraph about it?  It was one performance of one song on an entire tour.

Dunno where all the lifeguard metaphors came from, but in any event, the thing is that the “Forever” glitch was not a dire, earth-shattering concert glitch in the first place. It didn’t need “saving.” It was a professionally slightly embarrassing glitch, but picking up the lead vocal after the glitch has already started doesn’t cover up the embarrassing glitch. It had already occurred.

I think the issue is more about humility, to me anyway. Would the band or show have been measurably worse off for having done a full instrumental version of the song? I don’t think so. The show was measurably (to some fans anyway) worse off seeing Stamos overstep his place as a “guest” sitting in with the band. Why didn’t anybody else pick up the lead? Oh, I dunno, maybe because everybody else in the band (especially the backing band) were busy actually singing and playing a substantive part in the song’s performance. If you’re trotting around stage posing as a rockstar, then it’s easier to just pick up the lead vocal because you’re otherwise not playing any integral part in the song’s peformance.

If Stamos had some humility, and truly held the band in the high esteem he’s always saying he does, he would be aware of the perception that some fans see him as a mooch, as a poser, wannabe Beach Boy, etc., and that taking over the lead on a Dennis Wilson tribute number would give the appearance of at least potentially, possibly being in poor taste to some fans. If Stamos was somehow aware the Dennis vocal had dropped out and not a single other person on stage was aware of it, he could have gone over to Brian, or another BB, or another backing band member, and told them this fact and told them to start singing. 

Mike & Al (who are 2 Beach Boys) looked like they were fine with the whole proceeding. He had sung it on a Beach Boys record, so if anyone was to jump in to sing it, he would be the most likely candidate. I did not see anyone on stage take issue with it at all. Only the people here who have Stamos Envy. Get over it, already!

Bennett was a member of the band, Stamos was not. That would be the difference. Are we nitpicking? I dunno. If it had been any other "guest", it would have been more harshly criticized I would guess.

The idea of fans brought into the fold by Stamos is completely immeasurable. How many of those million hits are non-Beach Boys Stamos fans? "California Dreamin'" is a "Beach Boys" song, but I never went and bought all the Mamas and Papas albums because of it. Not the best analogy, but the point is that between fans of Stamos' "Forever" who were already BB fans, and fans of Stamos' "Forever" who largely simply care about him and not the BB's, I don't think he brought in a ton of fans who previously never heard of the BB's who then became huge BB fans buying a bunch of their albums and attending their shows regularly.

Saying Stamos brought the BB's more fans is like saying Michael Jackson brought McCartney more Beatles fans. Technically true surely, but how much more can you add to a huge fanbase? As I mentioned before, Stamos didn't help new albums sales for the BB's at all; "Summer in Paradise" tanked. So the area he could have helped them most was concert ticket sales, which the BB's have never had problems with since the 80's.

Huh?  Well, if Bruce was being electrocuted by the spit in his own microphone, yeah. I'd expect Stamos or anyone else to jump in and save him. This was just a song in a concert by The Beach Boys. What to do about the dropped video was their call. Not Uncle Jessie's. If it was their creative choice to sit around staring at their navels, then that was their choice. These guys are professionals.  This was their performance, Stamos was just along for the ride that night.  Someone was stage manager and the call was his to make. IMO, Stamos over stepped his place.

Bennett did not sing lead on  Forever on Summer in Paradise. And, he didn't work with Carl and the Band since the mid 1980's.  Stamos did.  He is what I'd call an "ancillary" Touring Band member.  And he is asked for, all the time.  He has his own fandom apart from the Band.

We can debate the additional fans and album sales, but I won't convince anyone, so won't expend the effort.

Name recognition is another story. The kids "know" who the Band is. Ask any politican about name recognition. See what they say about it.


Lifeguarding...the ticket through college and grad school.  Keeping clean with all that chlorine.  Sorry, I could not resist!

A very good thing that your opinion didn't count that night. Now, I know you would have let me drown. ;)

Well, since none of our opinions actually count and we're all just pontificating anyway.... yeah. And, I wouldn't let you drown. I'd do this your way and send David Hasslehoff in to save you. He played a lifeguard on TV, you know.

And, to get back on topic... that's some drift we've got there. I just saw several Florida dates on the Brian/Jeff tour. I'm thinking of combining a beach trip with some Beach Boys tunes.

I don't think Stamos's cover version is particularly relevant. So if he had grabbed the lead on any other song, that wouldn't be okay? Sure, I'd say Stamos has been an auxiliary touring band member. Bennett ( or anybody else in that band) were full-fledged members, or whatever you want to call it.

Every time I've seen footage of Stamos in concert with the band, it reminds me of those concerts in the 90's when Mike and Al would invite their kids on stage. It's a distraction that's more enjoyable for the participants than the observers.

I tend to regard him as a recurring guest performer.

I was front row at that gig at the Beacon when John stepped in to sing "Forever."  It didn't appear as if a plan B was really set but Jeff was clearly visible trying to get Brian to sing the lead since the playback wasn't working.  Jeff looked in his direction, nodded with approval like saying "go ahead!"  and even pointed to his lips signaling Brian to sing but Brian didn't get the message and even appeared to ignore him.  The entire band was on autopilot and it looked as if they were all just expecting the engineers to fix the situation at any moment so they just continued on with their parts.  It looked as though no one wanted to particularly jump in because no one knew the lyrics well enough.  Perhaps Brian had the lyrics on his teleprompter which is why Jeff was nudging him to take over...but maybe not since Brian doesn't sing lead on it and there'd be no reason for the teleprompter to be on, I'm not sure.  I know David has performed the tune before but I'm not sure he was prepared to jump in at that moment...it just looked like no one knew what exactly to do.  Stamos was there, he knew the song, saw the band in trouble and jumped in.  Didn't think it was much of an issue at the time...and still don't.

I know that was just a typo, but now I'm having a vision of Stamos standing in the spotlight to the side of the stage doing ASL intrepretation, while the BBs are playing along to the Dennis video.  :lol

This was pretty early in the C50 so I think it came before there was a plan B. I'm sure they were ready for a time it may happen again after that, just as Mike and Bruce would be during GOK this year.

I'm the last person to be defending anything Stamos does with the BB but I think it's pretty hard to fault the guy for stepping in here. It was a reflex reaction, and a good move on his part. Although if you're a conspiracy theorist you would be in heaven because the one time the video on Forever didn't work JUST HAPPENED to be at a show Stamos was at. Mike and Stamos's grassy knoll..

But, on that night, Stamos was a part of the band. If he was asked to JOIN the band onstage for that particular date, and he JOINED THE BAND onstage, then he was part of the band. What is so hard to understand about that?

Also, is it possible to use some common sense in judging Stamos' influence in bringing fans into the fold? Of course it's not measurable if you're talking about an exact figure. Do you think he brought in dozens of fans to The Beach Boys? I do. Do you think he brought hundreds of fans to The Beach Boys over the years? I do. Do you think he brought over a thousand or thousands of fans to The Beach Boys with his numerous TV shows, his concert appearances, and his vocal/performance of "Forever"? I do. How many fans do you think he "turned off" over the years? Using common sense I would say dozens. I don't think it's hundreds. In my opinion, I'd say those are pretty good numbers in his favor.

I was commissioned to write a song. Here's what I came up with.

Mike thinks he's twenty
And that he can get bitches aplenty
But he and Bruce are old and BAD
Not even talented enough to perform Aren't You Glad
They think they are the Beach Boys
Acting as stupid fat men's nostalgic joys
Playing at Seaworld for 3 goshdarn hours
Makes all Beach Boys fans need long hot showers

no hate

Stamos was guesting with the band; that's a distinction for me. He was not brought in to fill a needed musical or vocal role. He was guesting as a friend of the band.

As far as his impact on the band's popularity, the most measurable aspect to look at is album sales. It is a fact that the Beach Boys album released at the peak of his popularity and the peak of his association with the band, and the only group project to prominently feature him in any way, was the biggest bomb of their career. I could try to extrapolate from this that he actually injured the band, but even setting that aside, he didn't help the band beyond some general short term visibility that I don't believe ultimately helped in any career-altering way. He did injure the band's already dismal position as any sort of relevant band in terms of contemporary critical success.

As to your last sentence, I think The Beach Boys did that to themselves without any outside help until TWGMTR. So, did Stamos keep this from going to #1 instead #3? I get that you don't like him and don't like him at concerts, but really?

I'm enjoying the convoluted pro-Stamos arguments, but isn't anybody going to praise his um, singing and playing? Even one person?

If not, maybe he doesn't belong on that stage.

He is decent! I love when he is with the Touring Band because Cowsill gets out front for a steamy, hot 3 minutes of Rhonda!  He's fine for Forever.  OK singer.  And he is spirited.  And, stays on key. 

Sometimes people don't have the greatest voices but, the "delivery" makes for a different "sound." Many rockers didn't have great voices, gritty even, like Jagger or Dylan, who is not Sinatra, but, yet the fire of spirit transcends. 

Stamos is OK.  And beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.  These younger fans, like him. They'd like anything he sang.  I think I'd like anything the Boys sing, because of the "delivery" of the song.  Each to his/her own!  ;)

Jagger. Dylan. Stamos.

The fire of spirit transcends!

Glad you helped clear that up.

It's not a question of praise or pro-Stamos, as you put it, but rather in the whole scheme of things he is a very inconsequential part of The Boys' history and what they will be remembered for.

I don't think he played any role in any success or failure of TWGMTR. I think the associations that some people may make between the band and arguably cheesy things like "Full House" are partly if not largely due to the Stamos connection. It's another tired variation on the art vs. commerce debate, but Stamos and "Full House" drew fans perhaps, but not fans that would take the band as seriously as they should.

No use crying over spilt milk, as they say. Full House will be on TV in reruns for a long, long time to come. The damage has been done, if you do indeed think that way. I can't change history, it's a done deal, with no going back. Me, I just sit back and live with it. No big deal at this point! Again, Stamos is insignificant in how The Beach Boys will ultimately be remembered.

What makes you think it wasn't the stage manager's call?

I'm thinking Stamos might be more of a BB band regular then anyone at C50 save Brian, Mike, Bruce, Al and Dave. And I'm not too sure about Dave [or Brian] quantity-wise.

I respect your opinion(s) Hey Jude, but I don't know how you can say that. Yes, I think I know the fans you are referring to that maybe/probably migrated to The Beach Boys through Stamos initially. But, I don't think you can end it there, and ASSUME that those fans were non-serious fans - OR, and this is important OR - didn't become serious, knowledgeable, diehards like us. You have to start somewhere with fandom. How many serious diehards got hooked on the group through "Little Deuce Coupe" or "Getcha Back" or "Kokomo" - only to eventually love and appreciate "SMiLE, "Til I Die", and Pacific Ocean Blue.

I'll repeat, you have to start somewhere, and I think "Forever" - featured numerous times by Stamos - is a great starting point. It led fans to Sunflower, Dennis Wilson, and obviously Beach Boys' comps. And, how many of those "non-serious" Stamos-influenced fans got hooked - big-time, just like you and me? And it all started with John Stamos! I'm not name calling and calling you or anyone ignorant, but someone is ignorant if they don't see the positive influence that Stamos had.

Of course he has likely appeared at more total gigs. But he has never been brought in to fill a needed musical role. He was more skin to the cheerleaders used in the 90's.

There are indeed all kinds of possibilities for how someone could discover and get into the Beach Boys. I just think his impact was being overstated considering the utter failure of "SIP." My guess is more people have become diehard fans through other means than "Full House."

Of course they have. But that doesn't mean that a fair number of fans didn't come through Stamos.

I would say that fans were much more likely to have started out buying a best of comp than SIP anyway...