So who's been to BAD and M&B this summer?

[drbeachboy]

It just I want to see the BBs on top with all the guys together, not one original member and a replacement member touring smaller venues. I don't think BW overcharges either.

Technically, they have rarely been together in concert for their entire career. The dysfunction will end when they are good and ready and not before. It has never been a prerequisite of my fan ship.

[Cam Mott]

Yep those snooties abandoned the group over Stamos and the white trash of course couldn't keep up the group's rep as one of the World's most revered bands and the group's legacy alive with the group as a relevant force for 50 years. The Beach whos?

[Heywood]

group's legacy

funny you mention that. I think that is what most of these arguments are about.

[tpesky]

I might have to take the responsibility for derailing. My point was just to say Stamos today does nothing for the BB really either way because Full House is not attracting new audiences  to the BB  ( nor do I think people are being turned off from them cause of Stamos) regardless  of how many times it reruns in Papua New Guinea, Lichenstein, or the South Pole. Working in a school I can tell you, the kids have no real knowledge or interest in the show or it's stars in 2013, it's not 1991.

[Micha]

Yep those snooties abandoned the group over Stamos and the white trash of course couldn't keep up the group's rep as one of the World's most revered bands and the group's legacy alive with the group as a relevant force for 50 years. The Beach whos?

Unfortunately, the truth in this is that, at least here in Germany, my favorite band doesn't count as one of the most revered bands. There is a three week city festival going on in my city at the moment, with lots of tribute cover bands, including the Beatles, Depeche Mode, Queen (2 different even!), Johnny Cash, Tina Turner, and U2. No Beach Boys. I've seen a 60s cover band from abroad puzzle their audience with "Surfin' Safari" some years ago which was actually the first time I heard that song live, being probably the only one in the audience who knew the song.

[filledeplage]

I might have to take the responsibility for derailing. My point was just to say Stamos today does nothing for the BB really either way because Full House is not attracting new audiences  to the BB  ( nor do I think people are being turned off from them cause of Stamos) regardless  of how many times it reruns in Papua New Guinea, Lichenstein, or the South Pole. Working in a school I can tell you, the kids have no real knowledge or interest in the show or it's stars in 2013, it's not 1991.

Tpesky- You are correct that it is not prime time tv, and the kids are watching other things, before they channel surf to Nick at Night. And it is age-driven. I was with very young children. Special Needs might follow that model as well, commensurate with their respective skill level.  But they are "players" in the game still with the Nichelodeon Kids' Choice Awards, and slime stunts. Will Smith, Sponge Bob, Miley Cyrus, Selena Gomez, Britney Spears, Hillary Duff, Drake Bell, Whoopi Goldberg, Rosie O'Donnell, and Jack Black (Mr. School of Rock) have hosted the show.

 There are Kids' Choice Awards in Mexico, Brazil, UK, Australia, and Indonesia. New in 2012 is Argentina.  If almost 50% of the program delivery, on one coast, and most people have Nick East and West on Cable/Satellite, how can their importance be minimized? And, the categories now number 26 for voting.  Josh Duhamel hosted in 2013. They have a Big Green - Help award. They are players. And as long as those shows are still in rotation, the Boys' music will still get promotion, and more followers.

Purists might not like him. That is fine. But, his association with the Band, cannot be denied or spun away.  Back-in-the-day, there were no "Brian" people or "Touring Band" people.  Sorry to acknowledge that even exists.  Those were conscious choices made post-Carl's death.  The first and second generation (I consider myself somewhat 2nd generation, as my first album was Pet Sounds) fans can't even comprehend this whole concept of "split allegiance."  The music exists "as one."

This is intolerance, that is becoming intolerable. Just sayin'. 

[drbeachboy]

I might have to take the responsibility for derailing. My point was just to say Stamos today does nothing for the BB really either way because Full House is not attracting new audiences  to the BB  ( nor do I think people are being turned off from them cause of Stamos) regardless  of how many times it reruns in Papua New Guinea, Lichenstein, or the South Pole. Working in a school I can tell you, the kids have no real knowledge or interest in the show or it's stars in 2013, it's not 1991.

Who cares about Stamos, he is only at concerts. Fifty years from now nobody will knock their musical influence and importance because Stamos toured with them in concert. Do you guys really believe that your opinions hold that much weight that everybody in the world should feel like you do about it? Come on now, he means nothing to their legacy. Sure, they will be remembered as a great live band, but they will mostly be remembered for what they put on tape. Their everlasting legacy will be the music, not who toured with them.

[Sam_BFC]

The actual people who care about music are actively (and still) repulsed by his presence. These are folks who turn on others to the music, folks who become die-hard fans, folks who care. These are the most valuable people any band can have as fans, and Mike has driven them away with this tomfoolery.

The people who like Stamos are those who have purchased two CDs in their entire lives, one of Billy Ray Cyrus and the other an ABBA Gold collection.

  probably true.  And a bit of a shame; I'm no fan of the Stamos-type-image of the band (although I have grown to enjoy Kokomo).

But...

Wirestone, do you really dislike the music more after Stamos has been in the picture?

Yes.


Count me in as one of those people who avoids calling myself a Beach Boys fan because of this stuff.

But I am deeply uncomfortable with labeling myself a Beach Boys fan.

  Awww, come on really??

You can't be a Beach Boys fan for all the stuff that has made them so great over the years?  The way they rocked in the early days, the artistic heights of Pet Sounds/Smile and the next few albums, the way they rocked again during the Fataar/Chaplin years and of course the great C50 where everybody played their part.

Maybe it is a little different for me living in the UK where Mr Stamos is not well known.

[filledeplage]

Stamos is a blight on the band and its legacy.

He has surely turned off tons more people than he ever might have attracted.

The actual people who care about music are actively (and still) repulsed by his presence. These are folks who turn on others to the music, folks who become die-hard fans, folks who care. These are the most valuable people any band can have as fans, and Mike has driven them away with this tomfoolery.

The people who like Stamos are those who have purchased two CDs in their entire lives, one of Billy Ray Cyrus and the other an ABBA Gold collection.

That is highly intolerant, offensive and biased. Evidenced by "actual people who care about music?" "Folks who care?"

Care about what, exactly?

Folks who bought the vinyl?

And who support and appreciate all the configurations which were deliberate and established entities? 

"Blight" is a value judgment.  It is a poster's right to venture an opinion that you don't agree with, and not be greeted with condescension and vitriol.

We can disagree without being disagreeable.  One would hope.

[Lowbacca]

He has surely turned off tons more people than he ever might have attracted.

I seriously doubt that.

[Nicko1234]

He has surely turned off tons more people than he ever might have attracted.

Absolute nonsense.

[HeyJude]

Well, not that it matters much at this stage, but it seems the Stamos discussion split off into two separate arguments. One is how much Stamos helped the band’s image back in that era of the late 80’s/early 90’s. The other is what he adds to anything now.

The band certainly got more visibility due to the “Full House” association back in the late 80’s/early 90’s. How much? That’s obviously not measurable. “Kokomo” was already a hit when the band made their first appearance on “Full House.” Also, are we forgetting that the BB project that got the most direct cross-promotion on “Full House”, which was the “Summer in Paradise” album via Stamos’ version of “Forever”, totally tanked in terms of sales? Stamos aired the song in numerous episodes, with and without the BB’s, even plastered the “SIP” album cover poster on a wall on the show, and the album literally didn’t even chart in the Top 200. The evidence that we have at hand suggests Stamos did very little to help the band’s critical successes or new album sales. He actually hurt the band critically and in terms of reputation. Did he help sell hits albums or concert tickets? Unlikely, as the troves of people going to concerts in that era (or any era) do go primarily to see the band. Some fans of a certain age may have enjoyed seeing Stamos, but they weren’t going just to see him.

What does Stamos add now? Even less, if anything. He’s Mike’s buddy. We can’t even say Stamos is a good musician, as even one of the band members (not Al or Brian) said in an interview back around 2000 or so that Stamos didn’t really practice or even try. Clearly musicianship is a hobby for Stamos, not a profession. I would imagine the staff on “Full House” would have been annoyed if Stamos brought Brian Wilson in to act in ¼ of the season’s episodes, so I wouldn’t be surprised if at least some of the musicians in the BB’s touring bands haven’t always been a fan of having Stamos there. Of course they can’t say anything, because Mike Love is buddies with him. I’ve seen Stamos play and sing. His singing is fine, his musicianship is mediocre at absolute best. When he would attack the drums at shows in the 90’s, I would actually wish for Kowalski to take back over, which is saying something, because Kowalski’s drumming wasn’t too great at that stage either. I think it was Howie Edelson who discussed Stamos’ musicianship and his appearance at one of the C50 shows, and that review summed it  up well. Stamos is Mike’s buddy, he hams it up on stage and pretty much does whatever he wants, and it’s no coincidence that his presence was a thousand times more awkward playing with the C50 band, which was the most non-cheesy, musically and vocally substantive tour the band had done probably since the 70’s.

Stamos is to me just a humorous curiosity. I doubt Stamos’ presence was a factor in anything to do with the C50 tour. But the clash between Mike and Brian and their respective “camps” and respective “audiences” is probably epitomized by Stamos on the C50 tour. He played one night, clearly was ill-at-ease melding with that particular band, showed up the next night much more subdued, and then was not much seen or heard from again. I would guess Brian’s “camp” and the touring band at least  politely let the organization know that Stamos was not a welcome addition. Then guess what? Literally one day after C50 is over, Mike and Bruce are back with their “Beach Boys” and Stamos is there. Stamos is largely irrelevant, but he ironically does represent how the two “camps” with the Beach Boys differ in some ways.

[drbeachboy]

Well, not that it matters much at this stage, but it seems the Stamos discussion split off into too separate arguments. One is how much Stamos helped the band’s image back in that era of the late 80’s/early 90’s. The other is what he adds to anything now.

The band certainly got more visibility due to the “Full House” association back in the late 80’s/early 90’s. How much? That’s obviously not measurable. “Kokomo” was already a hit when the band made their first appearance on “Full House.” Also, are we forgetting that the BB project that got the most direct cross-promotion on “Full House”, which was the “Summer in Paradise” album via Stamos’ version of “Forever”, totally tanked in terms of sales? Stamos aired the song in numerous episodes, with and without the BB’s, even plastered the “SIP” album cover poster on a wall on the show, and the album literally didn’t even chart in the Top 200. The evidence that we have at hand suggests Stamos did very little to help the band’s critical successes or new album sales. He actually hurt the band critically and in terms of reputation. Did he help sell hits albums or concert tickets? Unlikely, as the troves of people going to concerts in that era (or any era) do go primarily to see the band. Some fans of a certain age may have enjoyed seeing Stamos, but they weren’t going just to see him.

What does Stamos add now? Even less, if anything. He’s Mike’s buddy. We can’t even say Stamos is a good musician, as even one of the band members (not Al or Brian) said in an interview back around 2000 or so that Stamos didn’t really practice or even try. Clearly musicianship is a hobby for Stamos, not a profession. I would imagine the staff on “Full House” would have been annoyed if Stamos brought Brian Wilson in to act in ¼ of the season’s episodes, so I wouldn’t be surprised if at least some of the musicians in the BB’s touring bands haven’t always been a fan of having Stamos there. Of course they can’t say anything, because Mike Love is buddies with him. I’ve seen Stamos play and sing. His singing is fine, his musicianship is mediocre at absolute best. When he would attack the drums at shows in the 90’s, I would actually wish for Kowalski to take back over, which is saying something, because Kowalski’s drumming wasn’t too great at that stage either. I think it was Howie Edelson who discussed Stamos’ musicianship and his appearance at one of the C50 shows, and that review summed it  up well. Stamos is Mike’s buddy, he hams it up on stage and pretty much does whatever he wants, and it’s no coincidence that his presence was a thousand times more awkward playing with the C50 band, which was the most non-cheesy, musically and vocally substantive tour the band had done probably since the 70’s.

Stamos is to me just a humorous curiosity. I doubt Stamos’ presence was a factor in anything to do with the C50 tour. But the clash between Mike and Brian and their respective “camps” and respective “audiences” is probably epitomized by Stamos on the C50 tour. He played one night, clearly was ill-at-ease melding with that particular band, showed up the next night much more subdued, and then was not much seen or heard from again. I would guess Brian’s “camp” and the touring band at least  politely let the organization know that Stamos was not a welcome addition. Then guess what? Literally one day after C50 is over, Mike and Bruce are back with their “Beach Boys” and Stamos is there. Stamos is largely irrelevant, but he ironically does represent how the two “camps” with the Beach Boys differ in some ways.

Where did you read all of this different camp stuff at? My feeling is that the show was already jammed packed with songs as well as musicians. No need for another. We sure read a lot into stuff without a fact to go on.

[Nicko1234]

Where did you read all of this different camp stuff at? My feeling is that the show was already jammed packed with songs as well as musicians. No need for another. We sure read a lot into stuff without a fact to go on.

There were comments in an article about Brian`s band not being happy about him being there.

[drbeachboy]

Where did you read all of this different camp stuff at? My feeling is that the show was already jammed packed with songs as well as musicians. No need for another. We sure read a lot into stuff without a fact to go on.

There were comments in an article about Brian`s band not being happy about him being there.

Ok, so? I doubt that they have much say who the Principles want on or backstage at a show. Were there issues with Taylor Mills too? Did Mike's band people have issues with her being there? Kind of sounds like nonsense to me. Oh well, no big deal with Stamos either way.

[HeyJude]

Where did you read all of this different camp stuff at? My feeling is that the show was already jammed packed with songs as well as musicians. No need for another. We sure read a lot into stuff without a fact to go on.

There were comments in an article about Brian`s band not being happy about him being there.

Ok, so? I doubt that they have much say who the Principles want on or backstage at a show. Were there issues with Taylor Mills too? Did Mike's band people have issues with her being there? Kind of sounds like nonsense to me. Oh well, no big deal with Stamos either way.

I don't believe Taylor Mills stayed for nearly the entire show, or shared mics with everybody, walked around the stage as if the sixth Beach Boy, etc. As I believe Howie Edelson said his companion at the show stated, Stamos appears to do whatever he wants on stage. Do the backing band have a say? Not a ton maybe, but Brian's guys probably had the ear of Brian's camp/people.

Didn't Taylor Mills just pop up to sing along during an encore like several did during the tour (Dean, Billy Hinsche, etc.)? That's not what Stamos's role was at the shows he appeared at.

[drbeachboy]

Just what was Stamos' role on stage at the C50 shows that he appeared at? My understanding was that he filled in on Forever after the video went down. He was at 2 shows out of 73 and this is a big deal why? He is insignificant. Just a guest on the concert tours. He has no impact except to help put fannies in the seats, at least at the onset of appearing with them.

[HeyJude]

Just what was Stamos' role on stage at the C50 shows that he appeared at? My understanding was that he filled in on Forever after the video went down. He was at 2 shows out of 73 and this is a big deal why? He is insignificant. Just a guest on the concert tours. He has no impact except to help put fannies in the seats, at least at the onset of appearing with them.

It's apparently a discussion of his impact in various ways on the band and its fans. Does he help sell tickets? That's part of this discussion, and it's on-topic since we're talking about the band. I don't think he sells tickets, if for no other reason than he isn't reliably in the lineup. He pops up now and then. One doesn't even know if he's going to be there when they buy tickets.

Does he or has he negatively impacted the band in any way? Attendees at the C50 shows he attended felt so, at least some did to some degree. He was apparently a distraction to some fans and perhaps some band members.

The fact that Mike name drops him so often is of even less consequence. Some feel it's tacky I guess, just like some feel the cheerleaders were tacky, or Mr. T drumming was tacky, or the "we're old" jokes are tacky. That's all.

[Mikie]

Did Taylor, Dean, and Billy sing on stage during the C50? Don't remember hearing about that.

[drbeachboy]

Just what was Stamos' role on stage at the C50 shows that he appeared at? My understanding was that he filled in on Forever after the video went down. He was at 2 shows out of 73 and this is a big deal why? He is insignificant. Just a guest on the concert tours. He has no impact except to help put fannies in the seats, at least at the onset of appearing with them.

It's apparently a discussion of his impact in various ways on the band and its fans. Does he help sell tickets? That's part of this discussion, and it's on-topic since we're talking about the band. I don't think he sells tickets, if for no other reason than he isn't reliably in the lineup. He pops up now and then. One doesn't even know if he's going to be there when they buy tickets.

Does he or has he negatively impacted the band in any way? Attendees at the C50 shows he attended felt so, at least some did to some degree. He was apparently a distraction to some fans and perhaps some band members.

The fact that Mike name drops him so often is of even less consequence. Some feel it's tacky I guess, just like some feel the cheerleaders were tacky, or Mr. T drumming was tacky, or the "we're old" jokes are tacky. That's all.

Personally, I don't care if he's there or not. He does not impact on the music or the show except for one or twp songs. If Mike's likes him there, then so be it. No skin off my nose. He does not affect their legacy, so his presence is superfluous. This has been The Beach Boys since the eighties. No use worrying about any of it 33 years after the fact.

[gfac22]

Did Taylor, Dean, and Billy sing on stage during the C50? Don't remember hearing about that.

Taylor sang at the Darien Lake show.  She did a short vocal intro to Marcella (basically a wordless snippet of Please Let Me Wonder), sang on Marcella and then left the stage until the encore.  If I remember correctly, she came out for Barbara Ann and Fun Fun Fun as well.  At the very least she was there for Fx3...

[MarcellaHasDirtyFeet]

Taylor hung out for the encore at Darien? Huh. Never realized that. I was hustled out by my brother and friend and wife so we could hightail it back to the campsite for bourbon! I will have to look up the intro to Marcella, as well as Marcella itself. Never realized the intro was a musical pun, and didn't really notice her contribution to the song itself at the time.

[Nicko1234]

It's apparently a discussion of his impact in various ways on the band and its fans. Does he help sell tickets? That's part of this discussion, and it's on-topic since we're talking about the band. I don't think he sells tickets, if for no other reason than he isn't reliably in the lineup. He pops up now and then. One doesn't even know if he's going to be there when they buy tickets.

I think it depends on the show. Sometimes it has been announced in advance (with even his face on the posters) and several posters have said that there have beeen people screaming for Stamos.

As for Full House itself, I can well imagine that he helped the group to shift some best of albums at that time. I`ve met people who`ve said that The Beach Boys are their favourite group and that Forever is their favourite song (not Dennis` version).

[b00ts]

I love SmileySmile.net. Each thead is like a classic Simpsons bait-and-switch - click on the fifth page of posts, and you'll find people talking about something that is, at best, tangentially related to the original topic.

Since we are now discussing John Stamos and his effect on the group, I will put in my two cents.

I have respect for Stamos as a human being, due to some of the very worthy, lesser-known charitable causes he has been involved with. He seems to be a decent guy and he doesn't usually draw a ton of publicity for his good works.
When it comes to The Beach Boys, Stamos seems to be a huge fan who acts like a kid in a candy store when he gets to join them on stage. It is certainly endearing, and I don't think he is trying to annoy anyone or step on any toes.

Last year during the C50 show I attended, John joined the group onstage playing drums for a significant portion of the show, before he took the lead on "Forever."

Stamos certainly isn't a terrible drummer - he can keep time and he has decent feel - but his drumming was superfluous. The C50 band had an incredibly tight, professional rhythm section, and it seemed like they threw Stamos into the mix for our show because he is a "superfan" who happens to be a musician. As a result, John Stamos' drums were the only extraneous sound coming from that stage. 

I believe it was during the end of the main set, or perhaps the encore, that Stamos started to annoy the other guys, specifically Jeff Foskett. Something along the lines of Stamos joining in on Foskett's mic. Jeff did not look happy about it. I remember thinking that Jeff must have complained during the break between songs, because after that, Stamos left him alone.

I think what it comes down to is this - the C50 Beach Boys tour was, for many of us, a celebration of all aspects of the group; not just the big hits, and not only the artistic triumphs, but all of their history, mixed together in a lengthy, eclectic setlist...

...and played by "The People Who Own This Music," not in terms of the intellectual property rights, but in terms of the right to represent THE BEACH BOYS. These people earned that privilege by bringing the group's music to audiences around the globe for decades - people like Brian Wilson, Mike Love, Al Jardine, Bruce Johnston, David Marks, Jeff Foskett, Darian Shahanaja, Scott Totten, John Cowsill, Probyn Gregory, et. Al.

Every one of these gentlemen demonstrated on the C50 tour that they know how to treat The Beach Boys' music with the respect and loving care it deserves. Every one of those people has the band's music coursing through their veins.

By the same token, John Stamos loves The Beach Boys, and he is indeed part of their history, to the point that I would find it odd if he didn't show up at any C50 dates. For instance, it's nice that he popped up to sing "Forever." Whatever our opinions about Summer in Paradise, Stamos did sing that song at the time, and Dennis is, of course, not around to sing it today.

That said, we simply had far too much Stamos mixed in with our Beach Boys. Much of what he added was unnecessary. It seemed incongruous to me that The Beach Boys prepared such an intricately arranged, well-rehearsed set, only to have a 'superfan' onstage, excitedly living out his fantasies for much of the show.

Stamos didn't ruin the show or anything - it was an incredible experience - but I think this perception, coupled with our widespread aversion to early-1990s Beach Boys, explains why people dislike Stamos when he jumps onstage with the group.

[Lowbacca]

Taylor hung out for the encore at Darien? Huh. Never realized that. I was hustled out by my brother and friend and wife so we could hightail it back to the campsite for bourbon! I will have to look up the intro to Marcella, as well as Marcella itself. Never realized the intro was a musical pun, and didn't really notice her contribution to the song itself at the time.

Taylor Mills had been doing that vocal intro part to "Marcella" for a number of years at Brian's solo gigs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9tHJcs7UB4