The Smiley Smile Message Board

At what point could Brian no longer do what he does on Pet Sounds, for example?

15 big ones. Even on The Caribou Sessions (1974) he has his head voice intact (Rolling up to Heaven).

I would say on the Spring album which would be, what, early-mid 1972?

His vocal on "Don't You Just Know It" is showing definite signs of strain, and that was recorded 1970.

Even on Sunflower, his vocals sound nowhere near what they had on Pet Sounds.

I always thought his early 70's vocal sound is simply Brian growing up. It's not like his voice is deteroriated, in fact I like his Sunflower -voice more. Mellower and softer.

he had his good days and  bad days. That definitely was a bad day. thing is he didn't have good days and bad days before. so yeah ...good call

I remember talking about this on another board many years ago. I remember Brad Elliott saying that Brian's voice started deteriorating around 1969. I diagree with that kinda. I'd agree with "Don't You Just Know It" - it's a little obvious there, but his contributions to Sunflower showed that his high voice was still intact. To me, he sounds fine on the Spring album. His high voice was intact in 1973 (Pete Fornatale interview) and 1974 (Jim Pewter interview) but I think it really went to the point of no return in 1975 when he was heavy into the hash and smokes and coke.

this thing is sunflower was recorded the year before that song. There was definitely a change around that time as his voice started to become rather reedy.

Even the breakaway demo shows Brian's voice slowly going downhill.

His voice had definitely begun to lose some of its luster by 1970. Whereas Carl's voice got fuller and richer as he matured, Brian's voice thinned out.

I hear the opposite in that stage of his voice, very shrill.

I think the height of Brian's voice was side two of Today!. The shrillness began to creep in on summer days.

I think the height of Brian's voice was "Surf's Up", specifically the second part.

I guess we all have different interpretations of "deteriorate". It's hard to tell if his post-Pet Sounds' vocals in the years 1967-70 were deteriorating, or if he simply didn't record them with the care of his previous (pre-1967) work.

If you want to be technical, the songs on Sunflower were recorded in 1969 were they not?

And, if you want to be really picky, like I do, Brian was straining and thinning a bit on some of those Friends' high parts.

I think SMiLE was the peak of his super solid almost god-like professional sounding lead vocals. It's still there in '67, but you can hear a pretty big difference in quality between, say, the TV performance of "Surf's Up" compared to "Surf's Up '67". His breathing control was slipping.

It's funny, as a new fan it sounded like it changed over night on 15BO. But as you get into it, you can document the gradual changes leading to "the big change".

I agree.

And I just realized you already pointed this out. 100%. It was a slow decline afterwards, with 67 + 68 still being high quality, but not quite as special as the previous years.

I agree 200 percent. Nothing until Back Home jarrs me at all.

ahh the Eleanor Rigby aproach

Personally speaking, I would probably hesitate to use the phrase 'start of deterioration' in terms of the '69-'70 sound vs. more of the noted timbral and stylistic change (less of the wondrous and sonorous "whine").

That is, when I hear the purest, most unfutzed examples of Brian in the mid-60s -- the Humble Harve recording, the Bernstein SU, the '67 Hawaii H&V  -- I really don't hear *that* much of a difference in the overall shape of his voice using Brian's best studio work in '69 and '70 (obviously the only concert examples we have from '70 are the lo-fi audience tapes where Brian sat in).

The range/purity of his falsetto on "Forever" from early '69 is still pretty impressive. The b**ted version even has that hair-raising scream by him at the end. And, his backings on "Our Sweet Love" from late '69 or early '70 still have that certain something to them (including the unreleased, mixed-out bit at the end).


YMMV of course:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rH4NH6MW98

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvzp3rfPL4k




Also, His "Soulful Old Man Sunshine" backings (and the demo for that matter) and "Games Two Can Play" from '69 are two others that come to mind. Even something like his opening line on "Feet," ('70) or something like the double-tracked "Awake" demo from '71 can still chill me.

That's not to say that there may not have had some lifestyle-induced, rougher moments on tape during that era (the aforementioned DYJKI), but...

I still have trouble witht he 1970 date for Don't You Just Know It. Jan just wasn't recording much yet 1973 is far more likely. Won't You Tell Him from fall of 1971 is a great Brian vocal too.

Well, when did Brian start using cocaine?
And when did he become a heavy smoker, because I think I remember reading that he wasn't a heavy smoker in the 60s.

IIRC, the first recollection I have of the '70 date was in Surf's Up (the book). And, even though it seems hard to fathom, wasn't the story that Jan's vocal was indeed laid down in '73? I guess it's just something that's stuck for all these years in light of any newer info.

*Is* there any newer info than that, Andrew?

Me too. Same here. Seems more like '73 to me. I've always thought that.

'Course if you listen to the intro to California Saga, his voice isn't the strongest either, and that was 1972.

he's using that same shouty voice he'd use later on.

Carl said the cocaine problem got bad in 1972 but he probably first tried it late 1968. There has been no info on Brian's vocal from Don't You Just Know It except the Elliot book that's why I wonder.
Still California Saga is OK by me. He never had the tone of sweetness you can still hear there.

I think Brian's deterioration wasn't just fuelled by booze, drugs n' smokes. You gotta remember that in the early sixties, he had live performances to keep his voice in shape, even when he stopped touring for 1965/66 he had sessions for Today!, Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!!), Party, Pet Sounds, Smile, occasional TV appearances etc. etc. he was pretty regular with using his voice. The dude was treating his pipes with less practice from '67 - '73, evidenced by less leads, less background vocal appearances and more time spent between each recording sessions. If he had a little vocal coaching in '69-'71 I doubt the shrillness and deterioration people describe would be as prominent. I'd wager 70% of the change of the timbre of his voice from '65 to '71 was reversible.

His weight gain I'm sure affected it as well.

The 'Forever' scream is on an official release (Hawthorne), not just b**ted.

Yes, it is on there as well -- around the 2:45 mark. Sure to clean the wax out of anyone's ears if they're wearing headphones!

For those who were there from the beginning.....When 15BO's came out were you not shocked at Brian's vocals? His voice may have changed a little during the late 60's early 70's, but since he had very few lead vocals I don't think the average fan would have noticed anything until 15BO's. It must have stunned people.

For a comparison, listen to Harry Nilsson in the 60's versus his later vocals. It's the same effect caused by too much booze, cigarettes, and cocaine, in whatever measure each of those substances are abused. The early-to-mid 70's was a terrible time for overindulgence.

Honestly, singers like Sinatra and Dionne Warwick smoked heavily for years, and managed to maintain their voices for the most part well into their 60's and beyond. Many, many singers smoked and drank heavily yet stayed somewhat the same vocally. But as soon as you get into the other stuff, as heavily as some do, you'll hear the voice go downhill pretty fast. Of course, you have John Lennon too who was Harry's partner in crime, a chronic heavy chain-smoker, and listen to his recordings from 1980: Lennon's was still a strong voice that had pretty much kept his full range.

It is sad because that Brian voice in the 60's was angelic, and the guy had an innate ability to automatically sing in tune with whatever he was doing or hearing. That falsetto was as good as any male falsetto in all of pop music history. You hate to see something like that go away.

I wasn't there from the beginning. I was hooked in 1974-75 by Endless Summer and Spirit Of America. I quickly read a couple of books and bought as many older albums as I could find. I did my homework and knew the guys' voices pretty well.

Yeah, it was shocking and stunning when I first bought/heard 15 Big Ones. It was a little uncomfortable; I had mixed feelings. It was a new Beach Boys' album, produced by Brian Wilson, "Rock And Roll Music" was a hit, and the band was all over the place. You wanted to be happy and positive and go with the flow and enjoy the experience - which I did. But there was a nagging feeling that something wasn't quite right. I can remember one time, listening to Side B of 15 Big Ones, with Dennis singing "In The Still Of The Night" and Brian singing "Back Home" and parts of "Just Once In My Life". And I remember thinking that, while I might be enjoying this album (I still think it's one of Brian's best produced albums), the general public isn't going to like this, mainly because of the vocals. I was thinking that this album was ultimately going to disappoint (in comparison to Endless Summer), and the band was going to pay for it, which they did.

There's a lot of reasons for the lack of critical and commercial success of BB albums in the late 1970's, but I put the vocals right near the top.

re. Sinatra, Warwick(e), Lennon:

I think all those cases can be disputed. Sinatra's vocal changes were noted by many, such as:

http://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/music/sinatra-det.php

But generally you're right that cocaine would have wrecked these voices rapidly and more fully than was the case. Billie Holiday is an obvious example, croaking away on her last album sounding like she was in her eighties even though she was only 44. She may actually be the closest comparison to Brian.

Can we think of other singers whose decline was documented as clearly as Holiday's and Wilson's? Harry Nilsson, noted. Chet Baker, maybe? Dennis Wilson?

"Forever scream"? Who's screaming? That's his natural voice! And who said anything about it being booted?

Yeah, this is what I've always thought.  1969.  He still hits the notes...but the sweetness is gone.  It's a little more forced and nasal (?).  During the classic years, his falsetto is glassy smooth, with a lot of body, warmth and roundness -- and when double tracked it just shimmered and sparkled.

But around 1969, and I've always pin-pointed Breakaway, it's sounds thinner, less body, a little shrill and squeaky.  The notes are there but something's missing.  It could be his heart's not in it... and he's just phoning it in ... but I suspect it was more than that.

Smiley, Wild Honey and Friends don't exhibit these qualities... he still sounds like he always did.  20/20 is mixed.

As a result... the 69-72 period is actually my least favorite phase of Brian's voice.  Because it sounds more forced.  I actually prefer his 8-packs-a-day sound on 15 big ones.  But that's me!   ;D

Good points.  I think that played a role.  But cigarettes... whew.  You don't hear it too much these days... but think Lucille Ball.  Smokes really drag the vocal chords to hell and back.

But age, in general, changes quite a lot.  No singer can hit the notes at 50 that he/she hit at 16.  If they can... the timbre and power will have lessened.  But you're right... since Brian's changes happened quite early in life, lack of practice and effort and all that, certainly would have diminished it.

Agreed. And I always wondered about that. I don't understand it. Even Whitney Houston held it together after doing all that coke and drink. I guess some people's vocal chords are more sensitive to it than others, I dunno. Coke goes down the pipe like shrapnel, tearing like small pieces of glass as it goes, and hash burns like a mofo. Maybe that combo. But I always wondered how a lot of other singers got away with all that partying and their voice wasn't thrashed like Brian's.

Look at Carl Wilson. He smoked like a chimney for years and drank for awhile and did a little smack too. But I don't hear his voice deteriorating much, if at all. Maybe because he exercised his voice a lot from being on the road.

I think Brian's best vocals were in the early days of "In My Room", "Your Summer Dream", "Don't Worry Baby" etc. That early 1950's Doo-Wop influenced style was fantastic. By "Friends" he really did start sounding like Mickey Mouse! He must have known too because suddenly Carl started getting all of his leads.

Whitney Houston did indeed lose her voice... Listen to any live recordings from the last few years of her life. It scary.

Coke also is killing Mariah Carey's voice.

It's one of those mysteries along the lines of those people who smoke regularly for decades and never develop lung cancer, while others who barely if ever smoked for any substantial periods of time die from lung cancer. Likewise, those people who eat unhealthy, drink, smoke, etc yet live into their 90's while some people who are very physically active and fit die before age 40 of natural causes.

I'm wracking my brain trying to find others, but I think Harry Nilsson may be the worst case of what we're talking about. yet Lennon, his partying buddy, came out of it sounding like Lennon where Harry's voice was just destroyed...which is a real shame, it happened in a matter of years rather than decades.

Carl is a great example of the opposite: I might be missing a few examples, but on all of the concerts, tapes, videos, etc up until the time he passed away, I cannot think of one where we can hear the effects of his heavy smoking on his vocals. He always sounded like Carl, and even going back to the mid 60's you see candid photos or vids of him and he was rarely without a cigarette in his hand.

Yeah, and lookit George Burns. They say one cigar is equivalent to 5 cigarettes. Dunno if it's true, but he lived to be almost a hunderd! And another guy I knew, newspaper columnist Herb Cain from the S.F. Chronicle. He quit smoking 20 years before he died of lung cancer!!  So.........it's about the individual and their own sensitivities, I guess.

Actually, I want to change my answer... you're right.  Even by Friends it was changing.  I previously said 1969, 20/20, Breakaway.

Actually Sinatra's voice did change too.  He was buttery smooth -- insanely so, smoother than Bing!! -- in the 30s and 40s.  He developed a bark in the 50's and 60's.  It worked for him.  He knew what to do with it.

Instead of dreamily crooning... he used it as an added edge.  "Luck...be a laaady... tonight!"

Badda bing.

WOW....Had the same thing happen starting with Endless Summer as well!

I was still new to the Beach Boys and thought a lot of Brian's singing on 15BO's was Denny at first. As the years unfolded it was really sad to realize that the guy with the gift of a voice/falsetto had become the worst voice in the band. Even though his singing is hit and miss today, it's really amazing that we have been able to witness some decent vocals again from Brian all these years later.

Another person that clearly trashed their voice in huge part to cocaine is Stevie Nicks. The using caught up with her like night and day in/around '84.

Good call on Nicks.

Carl's voice did change though. His voice was much sweeter in the early seventies than in the latter part of the decade.
Tom Waits is another good example. If one heard his pre-debut material then heard him after his third or fourth albums...

What would you call that moment during the trail-out at 2:45 on the Hawthorne, vocals-only mix then? Sure sounds like a scream to me. A wordless "shriek" perhaps...lol?

2:45:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvzp3rfPL4k


BTW, I'm the one who said that a vocals-only mix was b**ted (as well as being on Hawthorne). Goodbye Surfing, Hello God, I believe. Now, I'm not saying I would own such a thing. That's just wrong.  :angel:

I wonder what his bobby soxer fans thought when that voice changed! It's funny to see that skinny kid crooning away in the films from the 40s.

The Beatles stopped touring too, and their voices didn't change. Well, Paul stopped doing his Little Richard screaming, but that's about it. Maybe George's voice thinned out, but it worked for him. It's only in the last couple decades that Paul's voice has really deteriorated, probably due to age.

You're right!!  I totally forgot that it was booted way before the Hawthorne release!  On Vigotone, around 2001!

But his voice. It was thin, but that was his normal voice on that. Just like the Spring album. Until 2:45 when it becomes a shriek as he attempts an even higher note at the end. Dunno if he could hit a note that high before that, but it didn't sound good. Never was meant to be heard of course......

I think the booted version was on Deep Sea Treasures.

I always just thought that actual, blatant "scream" at the 2:45 mark was more or less done in jest. Sort of a little humorous outburst when everything's done (and obviously something that was never intended to be heard). Maybe done with a touch of exasperation, too! :)

My point in posting all this to begin with, was simply to say that, any timbral or stylistic changes aside, Brian's range -- normal or falsetto -- was probably still very much intact in '69/'70. Thus, I'm still personally hesitant to use a word like 'deteriorate' at that point. That word just seems to imply something that came later and was far more glaring and solidified. It's just 'different' to me at this point. Shrill...soft...etc....whatever word one wants to use. Though, I really like his voice and singing during this era. I'm obviously a big 20/20 and Sunflower fan.

All in my humble (and utterly worthless) opinion of course...lol.

Dave you are right on according to my ears.

I think you're right. Though, IIRC, GSHG had the same vocals-only and alt. mixes as well. The latter was Vigotone. Probably just duped it.

Deep Sea Treasures Vol. 1 was released on Polar Bear a year before the Vigotone release.

The sooner Mariah Carey's voice is destroyed the better. By whatever means. I can't be doing with that continual oversinging. Make it stop!

oh she still over sings she just does not do it well

The place I first hear the late 1960s "nasal" voice of Brian's is the "Sail Plane Song" demo on the Endless Harmony soundtrack.

In my opinion, Brian had something very special going on with his voice in late 1964.  I'm speaking of the Christmas album, and the Beach Boys Today LP.  By that point, his voice had matured and strengthened, but still had this youthfulness about it.  There is just something magical about it.  I also hear it in his falsetto swoops on the Annette "Monkey's Uncle" single, recorded around the same time.

Might be worth mentioning that for a few months circa Sgt Pepper, cocaine was Paul McCartney's drug of choice. But he stopped using it, because he didn't like the effect it had on his singing voice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWzqlx_8PGo&list=FLV1RDQ0_F5rhRw-6iYbh-8Q

Yeah, I think if I were to zero in on a rough time frame where that noted (soft/shrill/nasal) timbral and stylistic change becomes prominent, those summer of '68 sessions would be my personal marking point as well: "Sail Plane Song," "Walk On By," "Ol' Man River," "We're Together Again"...even his part on the alt. version of "Do It Again." An interesting period, as well, in that a) there's quite a few good examples from him during that time frame and b) it's kind of an unofficial half way point between the meat of the Friends and 20/20 sessions proper, if one is looking at a point of comparison. Maybe using the vocal on "Busy Doin' Nothing" (from March/April '68) and the vocal on "I Went To Sleep" as goalposts (assuming the latter was indeed laid down in Nov. of '68, if not June of '68). Any additional vocal work on "Time To Get Alone," from 10/68, as well.


Again, I personally can't use the word 'deteriorate' because I still see too much similar and intact in terms of his range and purity -- the overall *shape* of his voice -- when holding it up against unfutzed examples of his classic period, or even just a year or two before (e.g. Humble Harv, H&V Hawaii)....but it is a different sound and style. Just like comparing the change from "Barbie" and "Judy" to "She Knows Me Too Well." There, the evolution of the wondrous, sonorous "whine"...if you will.

I think the 'scream' on Forever is Brian's way of saying "that was a good take", and/or relief that they won't need another take.

I'm not sure if the 1968-70 examples above are not simply Brian not being willing to stretch himself on demos. Conversely did he shelve Walk On By because he just felt he did not have it in him?

Oh wow. "Don't You Just Know It" is very interesting. I was sort of expecting some early example/hint of a 15 Big Ones Brian type voice but if anything, there's sort of a hint of 1980s 'Sweet Insanity' Brian on there. yikes.

Also, it makes me interested in listening to more of the post 60's Jan & Dean but that is beside the point. haha.

I played "This Whole World" for a friend yesterday - and it never struck me before how strained Brian's falsetto sounds on the instrumental part right before the outro, the do-do-dooo thing. He still hits the notes, but sounds as strained as on, say, Getcha Back.

I was gonna post exactly this.

About Brian's deterioration, to me it's tricky because on some of the early demos and stuff, I hear him sounding pretty 'off'.  On the early "Surfin' USA" demo with the piano, he's off key pretty bad in the falsetto part.  Also I"m Bugged At My Old Man sounds bad to me, I know it's not a serious song but his vocals are just way off. 

So I think when we find later examples and say that it's proof of him losing it, some of those were probably just recorded on a bad day and if he did another take he might have killed it.  Of course for a long time he was putting much less effort into his music so another take may have been just as bad, but I don't think he was in a position where he wasn't capable of GREAT vocals until at least the mid 70's.  Just like he had bad days in the early days he probably had bad and good days in the 70's as well. 

I would ALSO like to say that 'deterioration' kind of implys that it's something that Brian couldn't control.  I think a lot of his style changes (like the above mentioned period where his vocals got much thinner... like on I went to sleep)... a lot of his style change may have been intentional.  The full throated, beautiful, smooth falsetto he used on something like "Sloop John B" or something he didn't necessarily lose, but just stop singing in that style and fall out of practice.  Of course we've all talked about, as well, whether or not the husky voice later was done on purpose. 

I honestly don't think that he had lost anything beyond his control until the mid 70's.  I think by then, even on a good day he just simply couldn't sing as well as he wanted to. 

Dear God...she sounds like Macy Gray getting a rectal exam by Darth Vader.

Brilliant points, both Dave and Ron.

Some of it was due to his love of the weed. That soft, breathy type voice you may have after a bowl or five. When he started doing coke, it immediately made his vocals more nasal. Throw that in, sprinkle a bit of natural aging and add a dash of not always giving a sh*t (in comparison to his peak of his powers for GV), and yeah, that was a recipe of something that was going to change his voice. I think a song like 'Lonely Sea' might have been impossible for him to do by maybe 1970, if not earlier.

Only thing I would say to that, is that I don't think he gave a sh*t.  I think he liked that sound and still considered himself on top of his game... if he wanted to still sound like "Wouldn't it be Nice" he could have taken steps and stayed with that sound, but the thin weedy wispy sound he likely wanted.  So he may not have been able to sing the Lonely Sea but he probably didn't want that anymore. 

Oh yeah, most definitely.

transcmeditation.

I just found a version of Don't You Just Know sung by Brian and Jan, and I was surprised with just how bad Brian sounded. It definitely sounds like his vocal was recorded much later than 1970. More like 1973 or 1974. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU80Vv9ylGQ

The weirdest thing about it is that this isn't the version I've always heard and been familiar with. On the verison I've always heard Brian sounds even worse.

This thread makes me feel so bad.  :-[ (Poor Brian)

Should we factor in whether he used his voice well? By this I mean: in classical music, much attention always is devoted to the artists using their voices in a medically sound way, so that they stay in their prime as long as possible. So many of these singers still hit everything they want in their '60s, even '70s. Has to do with breath control, not overstretching their chords, and more (I'm not a real expert).

What if Brian put too much strain on his voice, without us fans knowing that, already in the earliest years? Then wear and tear will set in pretty early in life. Carl may have treated his much better, without knowing it, and therefore his substance use could possibly have had little influence on it.

WTF is up with Brian's voice at about 0:52 on that YT link?! The 'you got me rockin' part sounds very odd.

Count me as one of those who think Brian's vocals were recorded later...his voice sounds thin as sh*t.

Very thin. It almost sounds like young Brian with the lung capacity and technique of post '76 Brian. The perfect transitional example.

The notes he's trying to reach are high as f*ck. I don't know if he would've been able to sound great on that part without slipping into falsetto no matter what year it was.

Just to play devil's advocate I think it could be as early as '70. Imagine if the guy on the Breakaway demo tried to sing this. The vocal tone is also not too dissimilar from the "Walkin" lead.

I don't make such a big deal about Don't You Just Know It. I think it's just an odd key for him, kind of like Bakers Man etc. Again people need to remember that his lead for Til I Die wasn't cut until spring 1971, his voice on Awake also soars that year, and Won't You Tell Him is wonderful as ever. I'd go as far as to say that if he got clean in late 1974 and lost the weight his voice would have been saved. Rolling Up To Heaven is evidence enough to me.

"Don't You Just Know It" sounds totally fine. 100% consistent with any other late 60s or early 70s vocal of his, albeit on a track that's much more upbeat than any of those songs. It'd be like if Brian had very few recorded vocals from 64-67 or something and people said his lead on the chorus of "Papa-Oom-Mow-Mow" was evidence of deterioration, it's just a matter of it being a very different song when stacked up against, say, "'Til I Die".

Maybe that's what's throwing people off, I don't know, but I'm surprised people are going on about it as if it's the worst recording in the history of recorded history recordingangogmngrrrrrrrrrrr. I don't hear anything suspect on the Spring album etc. either. I listen to "Rollin' Up To Heaven" and it really, really does seem as though 95% of the transition from his Smiley Smile through Holland voice to the 15 Big Ones voice happened overnight. I listen attentively, I was one of those people that others whined about for having "dog ears" with the errors on TSS, I love studying Brian's voice and the changes in it over time, but I'm not hearing a lot of the stuff folks are talking about in here. Just me.

He sounds like he just woke up on DYJKI. Definitely doesn't sound like he's particularly "feeling it" here, compared to Til I Die or Awake for instance. I wonder what the circumstances were behind the recording.

It also doesn't help that his vocal is mixed extremely low in the record. There's an outtake floating around with a double tracked lead which if I recall was somewhat better.

You got it right my friend.

Yep, me too. It might not be a particularly earth-shattering or profound statement to make, but personally, I still think the tried and true, somewhere-in-1975 date is where I'd place the solid and marked deterioration (or the aforementioned "95%" of it...if you will). That's literally a different person's voice. I mean, even the guy on "Child Of Winter" from 11/74 is still "Brian Wilson: v1.0" to my ears (or perhaps, timbrally, v1.5).

That's where the hopefully forthcoming box set can really help fill in the blanks in giving us a closer idea as to when the big shift occurred. The precious few examples we have from early to mid '75 -- Boat To Sail, Help Me, Rhonda, WDFFIL -- offer few clues. Maybe that '75 version of ITBOMM holds the key? Or something else yet unheard...or a *bit* earlier?

Right now, "Back Home" is still the biggest star on the timeline for me.

One interesting thing that I noticed about the recording of Don't You Just Know It is that there are a few parts where Brian and Jan's "call and response" backing vocals don't always match. Possible evidence that they recorded their parts separately?

Am I the only one who can hear remnants of Brian's young voice in this live recording of "That Same Song" (awful song, in my opinion)? Anyone know what year this was recorded? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFeMd3HRtTg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFeMd3HRtTg)

the studio recording is aweful but that live version with the gospel choir makes it come so much alive, eccentric and VERY Brian

After listening to the Beach Boys Ultimate Christmas set, I'd have to say that Winter Symphony is the missing link. You can really hear the transition between the young and old voice.

While listening to Winter Symphony yesterday I thought the same thing. I was thinking it was a 1974 track, the vocals were actually recorded in 1977. A "transition track" to me would be a 1974-1975 Brian vocal. The last one I can hear is "Child Of Winter" in late '74.

Then there's "Matchpoint Of Our Love" from 1978 which confuses things.  ;D

Oh My God!!!! Just listened to 'Matchpoint of our love'....this is an amazing, amazing song!!!! And this is from 1978???? From the MIU album??? And this is the same Brian that sang on 'Love You' one year before????

Have you guys seen this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qb9vV-H9ec (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qb9vV-H9ec)

I think I found my latest BB obsession...I feel like a really really bad fan for not knowing this (I tend to ignore anything post LY)...what was I thinking?????

The better evidence is a booted version with only Brian's vocals.

Pretty close, Mikie, good memory - just had a quick look at the "Christmas with the..." track annotation by Brad Elliot;says the track sessions were '75 or '76 at Brother Studios; the vox and sweetenin' were Oct-Nov 1977 at MIU institute; so Match Point and WS are from the same egg.

Sorry if someone has also mentioned or linked, but thought the observations from C-Man's essay on POB and Dennis's vocals - while not answering the OP question - adds some context and confirms the 74/75 timeframe: C-Man notes a common factor to the change in their voices was the devastating psychological impact of Murry's death in '73 on Dennis and Brian, after which they aped Murray's manly chest register, evidenced in their speaking/singing voices.

The MIU sessions vocals - and never returning to that quality again - is more perplexing to me than any period.

In my opinion, the deterioration around 1974-75-76 can be explained in one word - cocaine. Not smoking, not drinking, not being rusty, not trying to sound masculine. I have a feeling that Brian CONTINUALLY went over to friends' houses (or in his room) and snorted large quantities of cocaine. I don't think Brian or anybody else could predict what voice Brian would be "left with" after scorching his vocal chords. Well, we found out in early 1976. It couldn't be much worse.

But, to some extent, he healed. While Stan & Rocky's methods of handling some issues could be questioned, I believe they did an excellent job in the short time they were hired to rehabilitate Brian physically. There was a huge difference in just one year from the Brian Wilson of 1976 and the Brian Wilson of mid-late 1977. As someone who purchased MIU on the day it was released, I was ecstatic. Not only could I live with Brian's MIU vocals, I liked them. And, then again, he was gone.

No lead vocals on L.A. Light Album, no lead vocals on Keepin' The Summer Alive. No lead vocals again until 1985. WTF? That's almost 8 long years of no Brian Wilson lead vocals on a Beach Boys' album! Those smooth, fairly calm, "normal", Brian vocals of 1977 were so short-lived. How frustrating. I love "Winter Symphony", 'Matchpoint", and "Wontcha Come Out Tonight". I could easily live with his falsetto on "She's Got Rhythm", on "Belles Of Paris", on the end of "Winds Of Change".

But, for some reason, when he re-merged the second time with Landy, he was employing that shouty, boisterous vocal style. Ugh. And, very rarely, and not consistently until around Gershwin and Disney, did Brian ever return to his relaxed singing style. Very frustrating. 

 

One quick thing is that Cool, Cool, Water has vocals from the Smile., Wild Honey, and late Sunflower sessions from Brian and he is a perfect match.

How far apart were Brian's vocals for "She's Got Rhythm" and "Matchpoint" recorded? Matchpoint sounds great, almost like his pre-15BO years, but "She's Got Rhythm" sounds like the early form of his newer, "shouty" vocals. Could he have just been having a good/bad day on each recording, or is it because he's straining himself trying to do his old falsetto on She's Got Rhythm?

Both were fall of 1977. Brian was straining on the high notes on SGR so that's why you here a difference. Matchpoint was a better registar for him post 1974.

I never had a problem with Brian's falsetto on "She's Got Rhythm", maybe because it was following his vocals from 15 Big Ones and Love You. Considering where he had been a year earlier, it's quite remarkable. And, there aren't many (any?) better falsettos in the ensuing 35 years. Maybe a slightly better intro would've helped?

I don't mind it either but he sounds more Frankie Vali than Brian Wilson there.

Ugh...Brian Wilson on his worst day is better than Frankie Valli on his best day. I fucking hate the Four Seasons. :lol

Ok not that bad. I understand their appeal but it isn't for me.

Don't really hate them, but cannot stand Valli's voice either. It's a bit like the Rubettes' Paul da Vinci.

Blimey Don, the Rubettes! One of the first records I ever bought was Sugar Baby Love… Girlfriend was a bit horrified when it came on the radio yesterday and I could sing along!

 :lol

You can sing that high?

Ah, slip of the meaning… I meant, knew the words… I couldn't reach the high notes until after she'd persuaded me to quit singing!   :lol

 :lol

...and I don't even want to know her tactics of 'persuasion'...