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http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/posts/la-et-ms-brian-wilson-al-jardine-respond-to-mike-love-on-beach-boys-flap-20121008,0,6270223.story?track=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=95857 (http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/posts/la-et-ms-brian-wilson-al-jardine-respond-to-mike-love-on-beach-boys-flap-20121008,0,6270223.story?track=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=95857)

Great read.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/posts/la-et-ms-brian-wilson-al-jardine-respond-to-mike-love-on-beach-boys-flap-20121008,0,6270223.story?page=1


headline says it all

damn you beat me

nevermind

Aw yeah, now we're talking.

Grab the popcorn and put your cursor on Refresh, kids. This thread's gonna be fun.

This whole ordeal is a huge bummer.

I just hope it's a an extremely clever marketing stunt...

Suspect it is.

Brian's line:

… speaks volumes – since when weren't Brian and Mike able to call each other any time they liked? No need for an invitation via the LA Times.

Playing games with the fan base, nothing more.

And possibly a strong hint about a NY BB50 concert!

Oh you have got to be sh*tting me. This will culminate in either a) Al & Brian challenging Mike & Bruce to a duel on the red carpet at The Grammys next year or b) The Beach Boys 51st Anniversary Reunion Tour. Or possibly both.

It is fun to read and try and spot where the facade of writing in Brian's voice slips, such as in that line you quoted, John.

An utterly ludicrous situation.  :)

The comments about Brian`s attorney suggesting a press release should be made and then Brian being blindsided by it and disappointed that Mike should say that it was Brian`s representative`s idea are bizarre...

My goodness, it's going on and on. Brian (okay, he seldomly seems like he knows what's going on) and Al (okay, he's crazy) should know, after being in the business for over 50 years that Mike can't just break the contracts he had signed before the reunion tour. As someone else mentioned in another thread, brian, Al and David certainly won't play those shows without being paid.
I'm really happy to see how happy Brian was/is about being a Beach Boy again. But he (they) should definitely get better attorneys or for a change just talk personally with his bandmate/cousin, of course the same goes for Mike.

Great to see what kind of offers they got (Madison Square Garden? Wow) but what should Mike do? Cancel the shows he and Bruce booked before the Beach Boys tour for playing the Hollywood Bowl instead and leaving the people who bought tickets for the smaller Mike&Bruce show standing in the rain without getting a replacement?

I'm really not a fan of Mike but this time Brian and Al did the wrong thing imo. Of course both of them have every right to play in the Beach Boys and Brian imo is still the boss of the band. But you gotta be realistic in this case. If you want to go out again just talk about it in private and see when the next chance is.

I am with Brian & Al on this one. If they have offers to play Madison Sq. Garden, Hollywood Bowl, etc. Then that blows Mike's argument out of the water.

I should modify my statement and say, getting back together after the New Year.

Rocker, I'm going to get the controversy rolling and state that if Mike & Bruce booked their own shows during the reunion celebration, that would in fact make them the asshole. Oh, Mike of little faith?

And here we go...

Sounds the Boys are getting offers to play some HUGE venues but we know how Mike feels about playing venues the require more that a van to play in.

Let's be honest, Mike really f***ed this up. Common sense should have prevailed on his part, he knew how things were going and the fact he booked shows while the tour was going on is so slimy.

I actually believe Brian and Al, they must be upset.

Besides the Benefit show and the New Year's Eve show, which shows were booked during the Reunion Tour?

Anything that's already been announced - the tour only finished two weeks ago! And isn't there one on the cards for 2013?

Besides, even if they only booked one show it would still be the asshole move.

You are right, but there were shows booked prior to announcing the Reunion Tour, as well.

Look, Mike has been proving for five decades now that he's a prick. All the attempted revisionism by Mike, his publicist and members here can't change that. Mike's actions always speak louder than his words.

Hmmm....Y'think Melinda actually wrote that?

This is crazy but now it is simple. Things are now clear cut:

1. I wanted proof that Brian wanted to continue touring as a Beach Boy and now I got it. No more speculating. We don't know to what extent, but he has now made his wishes known to SOME extent.

2. After the current Mike & Bruce shows are completed, shows that were booked months ago, it is up to the guys to meet, discuss, and VOTE as to the future of the group. Their respective votes will be PROOF as to their positions.

3. This goes for all of them....These issues should not have been aired in public. After living for 70 years, and being in the business for 51 years, they have learned nothing. Nothing.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/posts/la-et-ms-brian-wilson-al-jardine-respond-to-mike-love-on-beach-boys-flap-20121008,0,6270223.story?page=1&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=95857&utm_source=dlvr.it&track=rss

Something that confuses me...

"After Mike booked a couple of shows with Bruce, Al and I were, of course, disappointed. Then there was confusion in some markets when photos of me, Al and David and the 50th reunion band appeared on websites advertising his shows.

At that point my attorney merely suggested to Mike's attorney that a possible press release in those markets might be appropriate to stop the confusion, which was in no one's best interest. That's it, plain and simple, and a strategy was open for discussion, which never happened.
That’s why I was completely blindsided by his press release. I had no idea that it was coming out, since it was crafted by Mike's personal PR firm without my knowledge or approval. No one in my camp would have approved it or the timing."

OK, so far so good. But...

"I'm disappointed that Mike would now say that the release was done at the request of my representative"

Errr... but it was, as stated just a few lines earlier. Brian's attorney made a suggestion and Mike's people acted upon it, slightly more so than was possibly expected (shades of Becket)... but fact is, according to what "Brian" has said, Mike issued his statement at the request/suggestion of Brian's representative.

BTW, according to Rolling Stone, Brian was aware of the October M&B shows back in late June, so I'm struggling to see exactly how that constitutes being "blindsided".

Confussed.  :-\

Probably the mysterious Jean Siever

third thread...

They had no compulsion about cancelling some shows with a symphony because of the reunion. So what?

If that piece is to be believed, Mike turned down more shows. Big shows. New Years Eve shows. Massive events. And for what?

Pre-Holiday publicity to get people talking about the Beach Boys. IMO of course.

It took over two decades to get Brian Wilson back in the Beach Boys, something I think we have all been waiting for. It took Mike "I can't fire Brian Wilson" Love one press release to get him out. Way to go Mikey!

Can somebody please combine the threads?

Probably a county fair.

Well, it was more of a rhetorical question...

Welcome to 1h ago Andrew!  :-D

I read that to mean that Brian's representative requested the clarification about the Mike/Bruce shows, but no one from Brian's side was able to preview the release to question the "door is closed" tone, when Brian and Al assumed they were still in discussion about additional reunion shows.

Am I the only one who finds yellow text extremely hard to read??

I really am disgusted with Mike right now.

Is he fasting again?

Back... back to the future !

OK, in future I'll highlight stuff like this - in black.

Never trust a man with his own apple juice jug. I find this to be absolutely axiomatic.

:lol

Mike didn't do anything since the article. It's not like he took Brian's response, printed it out, and then wiped his butt with it or something. There is really nothing new here. Either you like (or understand) what Mike did or not.

So much easier. Thanks.

Three weeks between the last Australian show and the first London gig... so why not play the shows offered then ?  Hmmmm ?

How bout translucent? :lol

Top story on google

(http://i47.tinypic.com/1671008.png)

It's really just how he went about things in general..

When Mike and Bruce dates started appearing ticketmaster during the tour I knew something was up

Brian is offering those shows and that album out there. Will Mike bite?  This is a drama, and I think it's going well for us. Mike loves this attention and loves being appealed to, so I hope the BB will announce that they are looking at some mega-reunion shows (not a tour of 67 shows) and the new album; I think this process is giving birth to that reality and in the process making it all the more precious and rare. . . .marketing or the truth I don't care, but the stock and the appeal is way way up, no?

We can all agree the situation is f***ed, even if it is just a publicity ploy. And if it is, frankly, to the people responsible, grow up. On the surface it appears as petty bullshit and it doesn't look good. Let tickets be sold based on the music and the fact that five of the original members of the Beach Boys have agreed to be on stage and perform for the people who love them.

Probably posted elsewhere, but just in case: http://www.spin.com/articles/beach-boys-mike-love-explains-brian-wilson-firing

And...isn't it funny that this article comes out just as the whole situation is starting to die down again????
Frustratingly stupid.

Whoever is driving the train on Brian's behalf, bravo. Keep up the pressure and don't back down.

MSG? Wrigley? A new year's bash? All cancelled for some horseshit M&B new year's eve show in Dingly Dell, Iowa? COM'ON.

Keep up the pressure lads, and break him.  

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/2/Open/Showtime/Specials/Beautiful%20Dreamer%20Brian%20Wilson%20and%20the%20Story%20of%20Smile/_derived_jpg_q90_600x800_m0/BeautifulDreamerBrianWilsonandtheStoryofSmile-Still2.jpg?partner=allmovie_soap)

"I must break you!"

I really hope they aren't canceled..

The Beach Boys at Wrigley field. Sounds like a lot of fun

Another Hollywood Bowl show. Sob.

A proper five BBs New Year's. But waaaah, Brian's band is toooo big and stuff and no Stamos, so forget it!

Early in the morning we'll be startin' out,
some laywers will be coming along.
 We're loading up our woody with op-eds inside,
and headin' out blaming Mike Love.

It was fair for Brian to come forward with his response but was it really needed?  I don't think so.  We're rehashing the same details and covering the same ground.  If this is all manufactured publicity (which I believe a good part of it is) I wish they would stop at this point because it's becoming a little to "reality tv show" for me.  It wouldn't be the Beach Boys without some drama, I know, but I've reached my capacity on this one!

Oh, no you haven't! You're posting, you're reading. We all can't stay away! Just wait till Al gets his disgruntled two cents in.

If you want Brian to "break" Mike, fine. But do it a different way. Not in the press. It makes them ALL look bad. Brian can have his attorney call a meeting and "break" Mike there - if he can. That's where this should be worked out. Behind closed doors.

I wonder what Brian will say when/if Mike says, "Fine, Brian. We'll pencil you in for 120 shows in 2013..." Yes, Brian wants to be a Beach Boy. But, at what terms?

I think once ML's people put out a sickly sweet self-serving screed in the LA Times, it was probably ok for Brian's people to respond, dontchathink?

 Let's pretend this is clever press manipulation rather than the time-honored fumbling and flailing and ego-driven f***ups that have always powered our beloved Boys!

A Wrigley Field show would be...would be...simply

(http://i45.tinypic.com/ipo2om.jpg)

I didn't agree with Mike's L.A. Times response, either. I think they should all shut up, settle things behind closed doors, and come forth with one unified announcement as a group, as The Beach Boys. Like I said earlier, after all they've been through, they've learned absolutely nothing.

Yeah, why didn't they play a New Year's Eve show then?

I think it's worse if it's not for real. Yeah, it'll keep you in the news for a bit, but when (if) the real light comes to be that it was all a setup, I'd feel really used as a fan.

+1

Yeah, or the offer at the Hollywood Bowl again! I'm sure it was for a few months after they just played it, right?

The Mike and Bruce experience have 5 shows booked between October and April.

Apart from the proposed New Years Eve show that's not so bad. I doubt any of us were expecting the Beach Boys to resume touring before next summer

The strangest thing for me about this statement is that it doesn`t really add anything to or contradict what Mike said.

Mike said that it was Brian`s representative who contacted him about issuing a press release. Brian clumsily confirms this.

Mike had already said that Brian and Al wanted the tour to continue. Brian just re-stated it.

Obviously the public opinion will be on Brian`s side as fans would like the reunion to continue and I completely understand that. I would like it to continue too. But this article omitted to mention that Brian and Al have been aware of the M&B shows for months. This combined with the very poorly written stuff about the attorneys leaves me wishing that it hadn`t been written at all.

New M&B band name right there if they want to keep doing shows at crappy venues.:lol

Think positively. I am listening to 50 big ones, which appeared on Rhapsody today. The BB are tangling Hollywood bowl, MSG, W. Field and a new album. . . . .they are making this thing boil, whereas without all the controversy, we might simply be in the wake of the reunion; no wake here but a raging sea. Who follows the Professor's thinking here?

Cut to Jack Rieley's face.

"SEE!?!? SEE!?!? I told you!"

Indeed. And now that they have supposedly split up again it would make any possible `reunion of a reunion` next year even more newsworthy.

Of the 2 statements, Mike's is the one that holds water.

Fact - the reunion tour was planned to be 50 dates then end. Yes? Yes.
Fact - the Mike & Bruce shows were already booked. We knew about them, how could Al & Brian's management not? Give me a break.

Al bemoaned early on how solo careers were put on hold to do this reunion "for the fans." Agreements were obviously made at the start of it. It was meant to be a finite reunion. So Mike made plans to keep himself employed afterwards.

To my ears, it sounds like Al and Brian are the ones trying to change the gameplan, not Mike, who has obviously made commitments to people (the venues, the fans, his band members and crew).

Were they really going to play Wrigley Field in the middle of winter? What's the big deal about taking a break and getting back together next spring?

It's the Brian/Al conspiracy machine that's gonna derail these good vibes.

Yes and yes.  Excellent points.

When exactly were they gonna book a show at Wrigley Field?  Obviously not THIS year...so there's really not much for Brian and Al to complain about.  Do they really want to play Wrigley in 40 degree weather?

Just don't EVER ask Al about chemtrails. The little f***er will drone on all night.

I'm guessing these dates ARE for well in the future. Those venues don't arrange shows two weeks beforehand. Ok, I'm talking out of my ass for MSG and Wrigley, but I do know the Bowl gets these things sorted out waaaaaaaaay in advance. Certainly more lead time than your average Nutty Jerry.

The Wrigley Field concert sounds intriguing, I am a huge Chicago Cubs fan so a show there would be amazing.

Al might have to go back to dental work if this whole thing blows up.

I personally could care less about Mike's commitment to his venues, his fans, his bandmembers and his crew. Gimme a break - we're talking peanut numbers here. It's like saying "I'd like to accept your invitation for dinner at the White House Mr. President, but Tuesday night is Bingo night at the VFW."

 Seriously.

Thats the gist of the situation.

It sure is a nice cover to pretend he's motivated by employing The Little Guy (TM) and spreading joy throughout Mudvilles and Centervilles the world over.

Rather than say, exerting more control, getting a bigger chunk of profit, not dealing with Team Brian, and being the main attraction not having to listen to the crowd go absolutely bonkers over some fella behind a fake piano.

Plus, Al leaves a trail of Grape-Nuts wherever he goes. That's got to get annoying.

Wouldn't it make more sense for The Beach Boys to play Dodger stadium as opposed to Wrigley field

Right.  Unless Brian is already referring to next year regarding these plans then that is another issue all together.  But considering the tone of his response and the sense of "urgency" it implies, it is as if Brian and Al are upset that they're still CURRENTLY not on tour with Mike--right this minute.  As if somehow the MSG and Wrigley shows would have been booked had they all agreed they'd stay together earlier this spring when the reunion tour started.  The tour STILL would have ended 2 weeks ago.  MSG could have been already booked, sure...but Wrigley Field in the fall/winter?

So he should cancel his October concerts, tell his band and crew they'll just have to go hungry this year and let down the SOuth American fans who bought tickets?

Is there something else they would be doing at the moment if Mike and Bruce weren't on tour? What's the big deal?

It's interesting that Brian mentions David only when he talks about misleading pictures being used in ads for a Mike and Bruce show. Otherwise he mentions Al a lot, that the two of them want to keep going. Where does David stand?

For the weather and location?  Sure.

But Wrigley Field has been doing these summer concerts for the last few years and they have been extremely popular....other acts:  Jimmy Buffet, Billy Joel/Elton John, Paul McCartney.

I think it's as much about preserving identity and sharing the spotlight, as much as sharing the spotlight would sacrifice some of that identity and "The Beach Boys" member identity becomes something other than what was advertised for the past several years when that spotlight is passed around.

Using the VFW bingo versus White House dinner invite scenario, what if the person calling the bingo was the superstar of that event and got all the attention, versus being one of a hundred nameless and insignificant guests hustled in and out of the banquet room at a state dinner? Some personality types would seek the attention and notoriety of being the big fish in the smaller pond versus the more outward significance of the larger event.

I think you nailed Mike's train of thought on this matter.

That's what I'd love to know. He could probably cut though this B.S. pretty quick.

I wonder what some of these "fans" would say if it was Brian who had solo concerts booked immediately after the reunion tour, and Al came forward to lobby for a continuance of the reunion tour? Or, WOULD have Al come forward if it was Brian who had commitments? I doubt it. Do you think Brian would've cancelled his solo dates?

Good point. Guitarfool. I was kind of channeling former Cleveland mayor Ralph Perk, who's wife declined dinner at the Nixon White House since Tuesday was her bowling night. Only in Cleveland, and only in Beach Boys land.

Yeah, what if Brian recorded Country Love, huh? Not so much of a genius NOW, is he?

Loose talk like that will have you committed to a gulag in Hawthorne, California.

We have ways of dealing with troublemakers. Do you have any idea how painful it actually is to fill your heart to bursting with spring? Think about it.

I think the confusion would be the same.

But that's such a inconceivable hypothetical. This is a move on Mike Love could do, most sane people would take a few months off after a massive tour like C50 was. Not Mike love, he's back on the road in tow days.

Maybe but then on the plus side none of the band ever has trouble finding Al when they need him and David gets to eat three square meals a day. Actually didn't Dave say at a press conference that he was in it "mostly for the grape-nuts".

Well, he said the dates were originally spaced out better but adding dates to the 50 tour made the window smaller.

I don't fault a man for loving what he does and having the stamina to do it at his age.

Well, at least Christian Love won't go hungry.

Good point.


I hope Dave doesn't end up forgotten in  all this, either.

He IS an employer. I would feel bad if I just left my regular touring band flat. And that configuration of "The Beach Boys" relies on Mike to be there - it's not like Bruce could headline a show.

But, Brian and Al don't want to take time off after the massive tour. They want to continue - NOW!

But, you didn't answer the question. What if Brian had a few (like Mike & Bruce, a few) shows booked shortly after the reunion tour, and, there was a movement underfoot to continue as The Beach Boys. Would Brian - and his wifeandmanagers - say, "Sure, we'll just cancel our previously contracted solo shows so we can continue as The Beach Boys..."

Mike Love's fake facebook account chimes in with misspelled fakery:

"Refrain from writing me all the messages about the band not together anymore. It's a long story and frankly it doesn't have to do with anyone but us. I'm sorry to have disapointed any of you but true fans won't mind either way."
 
(That's what I get for taking messages at face value. Oh am I ashamed! I blame brianwilson.com posters.)

It's not really a long story at all, and they MADE it a public issue. You wanna stir the pot? This is what you get.

Quit it.  More logic like that, that makes us understand Mike's point of view will get you kicked out of this board!  Only "we hate Mike" comments in this thread, please.   :police:

Mike is right to respond that way.  The only reason why Mike and Brian are responding to ANY of this stuff with press releases and formal letters is because of the backlash they're getting from the public/fans.  It's a cylce that goes on and on.  The media is eating this up, stirring the fans with no end in sight. 

"true fans" aka official Mike Love fan club members. :lol

The media wouldn't be remotely interested if The Beach Boys weren't deeply, publicly dysfunctional and soap opera entertaining when squabbling. It's not like Mike n' Brian haven't given them a lot to write about for decades.

Jardine started stirring it on his facebook page before the tour was even over.

Then Brian's management demanded Mike put out a press statement.

Now the media is reporting Brian and Al were fired, etc.

None of this had to go public. It's Al/Brian's fault for acting like they were stunned when every single one of us knew Mike had his own dates booked.

Yeah, but where was David Marks during all this? He claims he was eating a grapefruit. Was he REALLY, tho? His oily whispers between the various camps are what's responsible. His final revenge on Murry: DESTROY THE BEACH BOYS FOREVER.

What I'm guessing here is that Brian and Al may know what's really up in the new year. They may know that Mike wants to revert to status quo from this point on, and making an issue of it now is their best plan to force a change of plans.

Just a hunch on my part, since yeah...there's no point to any BEEG shows now in Wrigley or MSG, unless you're talking a NYC new year's gala. It's probably next year offers, and Mike's silence on the matter is making the principals slightly nervous. I'm betting Brian and Al know more than they're letting on...

The very best way to force a change of plans would be while voting on the rights for the name though I suppose...

Yeah, what's an alpha male's reaction to that, tho? That would probably make him even more prickly and resentful and not willing to do it, tho. Maybe press nudging and waves of talk about it is the way to go at this stage. Then you proceed to casually mentioning things in Rancho Santa Fe have a habit of being set on fire.

That's ludicrous. As if Mike Love had nothing to do during the reunion shows!

What an amazing answer, he speaks for lots of fans! hope it'll make things change somehow.

You couldn't be more wrong. That's exactly what Al and Brian have been doing. How's that working out for 'em?

Nicko's right. If Brian and Al want results, settle it with a meeting/vote. Threaten Mike with taking the license away. If they can. If they have grounds. Hit him where it hurts, in the pocketbook. Right?

Sorry, I don't have your experience negotiating with Mike Love and thought he wouldn't take too kindly to that line of direct attack on his livelihood. Certainly it could escalate to that. Should be interesting seeing what happens, huh?

Voting on the rights to the name etc. is a non-starter if the license already granted is for a definite term that has not yet expired.
From reading ML's article, it seems that there were agreements negotiated and signed regarding the Tour - obviously.
The approach going forward will be to again negotiate the business deal between all involved on whatever basis they all find commonality once again.

Far from ludicrous. It's just as relevant a thought as those suggesting Mike was living up to some kind of blue-collar workman's ethic by doing these shows. I never bought into that working man crap when Springsteen would project that mythology by walking around his stadiums busting ticket scalpers with the cops, so I also don't buy that Mike's rationale is mostly based around him busting his ass to earn a living and give people work.

If it's not that obvious on the surface, consider that it ain't all about the money.

Also, it seems apparent that Mike went overboard with his press release. According to the article, Mike was only asked to send out releases in the cities where where the band was playing, instead he releases to the press his side of the debate and that he didn't fire Brian. So, Brian addressing Mike's press release is fair. Actually, I am happy to see this happen, thought it would happen. It seems there isn't a whole lot of difference between being fired and feeling fired.

Thought we needed something beautiful in the midst of all this ugliness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y-0nWVdBH4

Carry on.

Point taken. But, obviously not knowing the terms of the license - and totally speculating :-D - maybe there is some vote that has to be taken when adding or subtracting certain members of The Beach Boys' touring band. Granted, there probably isn't, and Mike might be able to pick and choose who he wants with no consequence, but there might be some technicality regarding Al and Brian wanting to "participate" that might require a vote, you know, like an amendment to the terms or something.

I hate all this, partly because of how fucking bass-ackwards and petty Mike is being. sh*t, he wants The Beach Boys to be the biggest band in the world. Unlike most men with that sort of ambition, The Beach Boys, the band he had a pivotal part in, could be the biggest band in the world. This summer, they conducted themselves like the biggest band in the world, and it was amazing.

Of course, this isn't so simple. It makes all the sense in the world for a man of Mike Love's ambition, and a man who has gone from playing to hundreds of thousands of people in stadiums around the world to playing to hundreds of people at country fairs in Fuckstick, Utah, to run screaming like a madman to Madison Square Garden if someone offered him a gig there. But no. That's not doing things his way. Stubborn is alright, but not when it's so completely idiotic.


I also don't give a flying monkeys about 'well, his band have to eat too'. They're talented dudes and they can find work.

Wait, I misread yr sentiment. Carry on.  ;D

Ok, i haven't read anything that anyone's written on here yet, i've only read the original post and the accompanying article, and my thoughts on reading that are:

Well yes, OF COURSE Brian and Al (and presumably David) are upset. Quite frankly i've felt the Mike defenders on this board of late have been grasping at straws: Mike did act sh*tty, uncaring and thoughtless in issuing that press release in the manner that he did, and his subsequent 'explanation' was most definately not 'beautiful' - as someone rather unusually commented on this board. Brian has every right to be pissed off, damn right! It doesn't matter what was agreed beforehand! That was beforehand! That was before the massively successful tour and album. Brian is Mike's cousin. He needs to remember what he has Brian to thank for. It is utterly heartless the way he has gone about things. I'm a little tired of reading the increasingly desperate attempts by some Smiley Smilers to excuse or explain Mike's behaviour even when it's reprehensible.
 

Howard Johnson is right! I know, the anti-Mike slant of online fandom has been tough for those that love the whole band -- and Mike  DOES have his reasons, and yes, understanding them is a good thing. But in this case, he crammed his whole foot in his mouth while Bruce adjusted the mic stand. No amount of "We knew this in June" is going to make Mike come out smelling like roses here.

Those bored of this discussion better brace themselves for much more of it the coming year unless they work something out. Wait till the backing band interviews start popping up...

Rarrit!

And totally uncharacteristic of him

Meanwhile, on John Stamos' twitter page...a retweet:

Want to see @JohnStamos and @TheBeachBoys? There's still time to get your tix! http://beaurivage.com/entertainment/entertainment_headliners_detail.aspx?id=2341 …

OH YES. There's still time. ISN'T IT TIME?

sh*t like this makes me throw up a little.

Now who can argue with that?

 :lol YES!

Nice town, ranks up there with Kokomo and Sumahama. ;D

(http://www.beaurivage.com/images/entertainment/Beach%20Boys%20BR%20Web%20BIG.jpg)

(http://cjzero.com/gifs/PopFacepalm.gif)

In South America it's not a big problem cancel a show with months of anticipation... however if I know that the cancel is for waiting a full Beach Boys show in some time... cancel all you want it!!  ;D

I read Mikes letter and felt like it closed the issue.

Now I read Brian's letter and I'm like.... OMG *popcorn*

Can you imagine Brian ever saying phrases like "Then there was confusion in some markets?"

Battle of the PR Firms! 

I don't care who they upset, or lay off. I want them back together. I want new material. I want the Beach Boys! I'm selfish, and I don't care. They deserve to go out with a bang. Unless they're all together, they'll go out with a flicker.

Well, obviously this is not written by Brian personally; I don't think they are even attempting to give that impression. But I think it's fairly safe to assume he gave a few points to a publicist and then okayed what was written.

Oh, I know. It just makes me very amused to think of Mr. Wilson talking about "markets." Let's hope their layers of underlings don't bungle future work together due to misunderstandings or bullsh*t. If what this piece says is true, the band never even discussed the future gigs yet. They should. In person.

Hey, ontor, check out that Pete Fornatale interview with BW and his favorite sister-in-law and you'll see just how obsessed he can get over "promotion" and markets. If he can get that pumped over "Shyin' Away", well...you can do the extrapolation yourself!!

I also get the impression that Melinda hasn't missed an issue of the WSJ in the past couple of decades!

All of this makes me think that the BBs will have no choice but to include a cover of Pat Benatar's "Hit Me With Your Best Shot" on that rock'n'roll album. "Fire away!!!"  :jedi

hey, weirdly enough I just was! Now that's timing... and good point! For all the aw shucks persona, the man is wired for "hit records." Maybe when we aren't around, Brian talks like Variety headlines.

Which makes this even sadder. They are finally back where they should be and Michael Edward Love wants to hit Biloxi with Bruce instead. Sad.

That should be a song. 8)

Only one way to sort this.

Send the wives to a spa for the weekend with their husbands credit cards and a few bottles of expensive bubbles. Group's future to be decided in the sauna away from band members, managers, lawyers and accountants! ;)

For sure. Maybe it can be stretched to fit the melody on "Brian's Back."  ;D

The scariest thing about the uncertain future is the prospect of never hearing Bruce's re-worked "she believes in love again""

Just the thought of a concert at MSG and a New Year's concert makes me all the more upset over this.  Whatever the situation may be, the full band doing those kinds of shows would be absolutely unbelievable.

Yeah, I admit I'm just greedy and want another show at the Hollywood Bowl. The gigs I caught were wonderful and if it can continue, it should. If Mike Love needs more money and more Cap'n Crunch gold braid or something... so be it.


"Spring Vacation" caused such a sensation
Not to mention naming Pet Sounds
And we traveled the world
As Foskett unfurled
I guess you'd have to say we got around
(We got around we got around)

but now it's Biloxi with Bruce
Biloxi with Bruuuceeee

Why do the handfull of "already booked" (which may or may not be accurate) Mike/Bruce shows keep getting brought up as the hindrance to more reunion shows? This "it was out of Mike's hand, he already booked shows, what is he supposed to do, cancel them?" reasoning is not applicable here. Even Brian's "statement" seems to suggest they were made aware of these few bookings, and kind of had the same attitude a lot fans did, which was "oh, hmmm, well, that's kind of cheap and cheesy, but whatever."

The issue seems to be the idea of foregoing more reunion shows. Mike's own "statement" doesn't indicate the whole thing fell apart because he booked a few October gigs. It fell apart because Mike doesn't want to do more reunion shows right now, end of story. He has reasons he doesn't want to, and I think a lot of them are ridiculous, but he has reasons. But ultimately, HE is making those decisions. He is deciding not to work with Brian and Al right now, while Brian and Al want to.

I don't understand why people don't understand that Brian and Al (and many fans) are not making a legal argument here. Yes, contracts were signed, etc, etc.. We all understand that. Brian's "statement", whomever wrote it, correctly points out that the tour was awesome and many feel it should continue. Clearly, Mike didn't just accidentally book a few gigs in October, and then everything fell apart. No, Mike decided early on that he didn't want to have the financial burden of the reunion tour for too long.

Mike could have made more reunion shows happen, and his own statement basically outlines that he is CHOOSING to not do more reunion shows. There aren't ANY contractual reasons indicating that more reunion shows can't happen. Even Mike's statement doesn't claim this.

Again, Brian and Al wanted to continue the reunion. Mike CHOSE not to, for now. Nobody has indicated anything other than Mike's CHOOSING to not do more reunion shows as the reason for those shows not taking place.

The statement is obviously not worded as well as it could be, but I think it's pretty obvious that what Brian's statement is indicating is that the wide distribution of Mike's statement, and perhaps the more broad-reaching nature of it (it didn't simply reference a few already-booked shows, but referenced all shows going forward) are what was contrary to what his "representatives" seemed to ask for.

But yeah, we get it AGD, you just really, really don't want any more reunion shows or albums.  :lol

I have to try to accept that if a thread about an unreleased box set (which we have no tangible information on) can go on for 40 pages...I should expect this topic here to go on till about 2015.

That's about right! ;)

Al made gosh darn sure he was on a Wilson's side this time.  He wasn't going to make his 1977 mistake again.

HeyJude has nailed it. About whether Mike wants to play has little half ass "Beach Boys" shows now, whatever. Let him do it. But the fact is obvious:

Mike Love apparently thinks he is The Beach Boys, and he doesn't want to work with Brian and Al right now!

You can question why or whatever. Maybe Mike really does think they'd be diluting the brand by doing more shows with real Beach Boys as part of them. But he's also kidding himself if he doesn't think playing Bumfuck, Missouri as "The Beach Boys" isn't diluting the brand even more.


I think there are two reasonable ways to solve this problem. Either Mike agrees to work with Brian and Al and they continue on as The Beach Boys, or Brian, Al, and Carl's estate can take away the license from Mike, and Mike can demonstrate his true draw as a performer by going out on tour as....get this....Mike Love! See how many tickets "Mike Love" would sell.

And lastly, I just don't understand why people like AGD don't want the reunion to continue. The Beach Boys are/were together and continuing that will result in more great music live, and likely from the studio. Forget "leaving the picture perfect" or whatever.....if these guys wanna work together they should. They've made great music all the way from 1961 until 2012, I don't see why that combination wouldn't work in 2013 and beyond.

I doubt it.

I think were all getting a little burned out on the squabbling. When I look past tabloid junk aspect of this story I get bummed out about how it's spoiled a beautiful year in Beach Boys history

I know.   >:( The whole reunion thing was so great that it felt like it was too good to be true. Guess it was  :'(

Biloxi With Bruce
Michael E.Love

Biloxi with Bruce
That's how we dooo it
Summertime sounds
There's nuthin' toooo it

Stamos on drums
Pounding a beat
The housewives are cheering
And they're up on their feet

Biloxi with Bruce
and all through the nation
Can't you just hear it?
It's good Vibrations!

Tonight's it's Biloxi
Maybe soon Wheeling
With Bruce at my side...
Clapping and cheering

Biloxi with Bruce-ahhhh
(papa oom mow)
Biloxi with Bruce-ahhhh
(duke of earl nowww)

(fade)

No need to get down. I'm sure Mike and Bruce will be playing your nearest county fair some time soon

No way is all of this manufactured publicity.  Mike would be crazy to agree to all this back and forth stuff being published as most of it not only makes him look bad, but it makes the Mike & Bruce BBs seem less legitimate in the public's eyes and thus may give many people serious pause about attending the M&B BB shows.  

From Capitol Records' perspective, right now they've gotta be in favor of the BB50 reunited group continuing, as those concerts feature great publicity for That's Why God Made the Radio, and feature at least two songs from the new album, compared to zero from the current Mike & Bruce BB shows.

But, assuming the guys do get together and put out another album (and I hope they do) and then regroup for another BBs Reunited tour (and I hope they do), all this publicity will have the benefit of laying the groundwork for a major "Beach Boys reunite for another album and concert series" campaign.

So now the reunion and all the great stuff that happened this past summer is now completely erased like it never happened?

For fans of a group who's music inspires peace, beauty and fun...we sure are a moody, Debbie-Downer bunch, aren't we? :smokin

For long time fans, this should be like Old Home Week. Having the band back together is not complete without some classic Beach Boys infighting. It's just like back in the day. But this time, we have the internet message boards and social media to follow it instantaneously. At least back in the day of the Newark Airport throwdown and other classic moments, we had to find out second-hand.

Brian and Al should take the opportunity to do an album with California Saga.

It is TOTALLY applicable. That's why Brian, Al and David are not on stage with Mike & Bruce.

Yeah, Brian might consider the Mike & Bruce bookings "cheap and cheesy". Do you think he'll cash the checks he gets from them?

Quite true. Depending on the era, we've had up to four different factions driving the bus (yes, even Carl and Dennis in their own singular way). I'm still surprised that Brian had as much leeway as he did with TWGMTR. Surprised in a good way - wonder if it would have been as magnanimous if Carl were still alive.

Still, with a #3 debut (whether or not it could ever be duplicated), Brian has Capitol on his side. Perhaps the label will sort this mess out. Money talks, and Bruce claps!

Hell yeah...those guys sounded amazing. Wish they'd come to England.


"Brian Wilson presents Al Jardine's Beach Boys Family and Friends (incorporating California Saga) FT David Marks"

If they can get on QVC again, they'll probably be guaranteed a Top Ten album.

The problem is that people are blaming the existence of the show bookings instead of blaming Mike for his overriding decision to not tour with the other guys. It's being presented as if these bookings just happened, and Mike has no choice but to do them. Mike didn't book the shows, and then decide to not tour with the other guys. First of all, even if he did, then that would still have been his fault and his decision. But this isn't how it happened. Mike booked the shows because he had already decided he didn't want to tour more with the other guys at this time.

I'm just trying to articulate how I feel the arguments supporting Mike doing his own thing seem to be using this sort of weird, reflexive logic that Mike had no choice but to do the shows because he, well, had to do the shows. Saying all of that ignores why the shows existed in the first place. They existed because Mike wanted to do them, and do them instead of touring with the other guys. And that's fine if that's his decision, but he will then be painted accordingly as the dude who sent everyone home while the party was still fun.

I guess the Boys didn't waste a lot of their down time talking to each other during the reunion tour or since.

This is just  another crap move from Brian and Al [or their people  ::)] in this fiasco and is about two weeks too late. This could all have been avoided with a BRI board meeting [or even a chat over dinner] it sounds to me.

I will also add that, regardless of how Brian feels or will feel about any Mike/Bruce bookings, and regardless of whether Brian changes any of the license arrangements in the future regarding the BB name, he would be entitled to that royalty from the live show, whether he wanted the show to happen or not. Mike Love pays a licensing fee to use the trademark, and Brian is one of the holders of the trademark. It's the same thing with Al. He (presumably/allegedly) got his cut of the licensing fee throughout the entire time he may have disagreed with Mike using the name, because Al also is one the holders of the trademark.

It's not as if Brian's only method now for showing displeasure with Mike's tour is to publicly burn the licensing fees he is entitled to.

I'm pretty sure the whole "board meeting/chat over dinner" thing works both ways.

"Another crap move from Brian and Al".... um, yeah, they wanted to do more reunion shows after receiving amazing reviews from the press and fans. I'm sure the fans are just hating them for that right now........

Will Mike also respond to Brian's response?  LOL

Mike booked the shows, but there was no decision to be made whether Brian, Al, and David would accompany him. The reason no decision was made is because Mike - nor many other people - gave this reunion tour much of a chance of running its course, probably not going for 50 dates and certainly not being extended by 13 shows and a month and a half.

As far as the "fans" on this board blasting Mike, it is just more hypocrisy. Do you remember before this whole reunion thing came about, how almost NOBODY gave it a chance. There won't be more than one or two dates. Brian won't accompany them. Mike won't take Al back. David won't be asked. They can't sing anymore. How will they ever put a backing band together. They should just have a dinner and talk about old times. Nobody (well, I did) thought this reunion had a chance, and nobody thought if it did come about, that it would exceed all expectations.

But, I guess Mike wasn't allowed to think that. He should've known how great it was going to be. He should've know that the tour would be extended to 73 dates and a month and a half. He should've known that Al would have a change of heart about putting his solo career on hold. He should've known the album would hit No. 3 on the charts. He should've known how Brian would turn an about face and WANT to be a Beach Boy again. How dare Mike think like the rest of us and go ahead and book some future dates (as Mike & Bruce) to continue his career. He should've known better. Like we did? Like you did?

It's called putting your money where your mouth is.

GREED:
a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money or control/power) than is needed, often at the expense of others.

Ohhh, that's sounds about right

It wouldn't be the Beach Boys if piss poor decisions didn't go hand in hand with their triumphs. Honestly I think the people around the Beach Boys have made the trouble for them all these years more than the Beach Boys themselves. They worked well together before Murry died because they all lived in the same area, and sat and talked about what they were doing. Once they began to talk through second parties that's when all the crap went down and still goes down. One thing the Beach Boys should all do, if they do now care to be a group, is discuss what they are doing directly with each other. If they did that problem solved.

My 2 cents is that The Beach Boys should only go on at this point if they have an artistically valid reason to be together. If not they should hang it up. I think the Mike and Bruce dates that were scheduled should be honored, but as for me I don't think they should book any more. Either way it's the P.R. people messing this up.

Sorry but you really are twisting the facts there...

It wasn`t Mike who decided on the 50 concerts tour idea so you can`t say that he wanted the tour to end at a certain point from the beginning. You can say however that he THOUGHT it would end at a certain point. From Mike`s statement you can deduce that initially they weren`t even sure that Brian would do all of those 50 shows so they certainly wouldn`t have expected him to want to carry on touring for the entire year. If Mike,  `didn`t want to tour more with the other guys` right from the beginning then why did he agree to cram in as many concerts as they could before October?  

The timeline is clear...

Brian and the band arranged 50 summer shows which should have ended in August.
Mike then started booking shows for October onwards as he thought the reunion tour would be long finished by then.
Brian and Al then said that they wanted to do more shows.
About 25 extra shows were booked up to the end of September meaning no gap before the Mike and Bruce shows.
Brian and Al said that they wanted things to continue into October.
Mike said that they couldn`t as he had other shows booked.

I certainly never was a particular naysayer about the reunion, especially once it was announced. I thought it would happen without Brian bailing or the band breaking into a fistfight on stage. I didn't know how good the show or album would be, but once it was all announced, I didn't doubt it would all happen. It turned out to be really good, especially the tour.

As for Mike and his disposition around his expectations of the tour, this is not at all the argument I've seen being used to support the lack of additional reunion shows and the continued booking of Mike's band. First, it was "the shows are already booked, what was Mike supposed to do?" My answer is that he could have rescheduled the shows, tried to morph them into reunion show, or yes, maybe cancel them, or do the shows and then jump right back into reunion shows. Any of those would work and might have been doable. But now the reasoning has shifted to "How could Mike have known the reunion would be successful? He booked shows because he didn't know it was going to be successful." I have plenty of ideas for how this could have been worked around. Once he knew it was successful, he *then* could have agreed to additional reunion bookings and stopped booking any future Mike/Bruce shows.

Here's the thing: Nowhere in Mike's statement does he really seem to indicate that he wants to do more reunion stuff as if some uncontrollable outside force is keeping him from doing it. He is choosing not to right now, and his statement pretty much supports this. He makes a lame attempt to justify booking shows in smaller markets as if his touring is an altruistic venture for fans. But beyond that, his statement reads like he's kind of done with the reunion. That's his choice. But excuses can't be made for this. He is choosing this.

I'm not suggesting everything could have gone totally smoothly. Maybe a few Mike/Bruce shows would have had to happen, maybe some awkward reshuffling and reorganization. But it could have happened, and hopefuly still will.

Regarding Mike's ideas about how well the tour would go, I'll actually go so far as to say he doesn't view the tour as going as swimmingly as Brian or Al or some (or most) of the fans feel. I think the bloated touring costs, having to share more money at the gate, not having as much control, not being the center of attention, having Brian announced last to the most thunderous applause, all of those things have not left quite as good of a taste in his mouth about this reunion tour as some of the other guys. It doesn't mean Mike didn't enjoy it or didn't recognize the good parts of it too. I'm amazed he ever signed up for it. I'm much more amazed he signed on for it than I am that Brian did. In that sense, we truly are lucky we got what we did. I'm still hoping for more....

You said it all Justin.  This whole shebang if it is manufactured publicity is really disrespectful to the fanbase.

When I say that Mike had already planned on not touring with the reunion band, I don't mean as it pertains to any one specific date. I'm glad he agreed to the additional dates. What I mean is that he knew they wouldn't be touring through the end of the year. He decided at some point relatively early on that he would be doing his own shows by October.

His decision to book October shows apparently is part of his (or your) justification for not doing more reunion shows. How could this have been avoided? Lots of ways. How about just not booking any shows until things were clear? Mike says in his statement that more time was supposed to pass between the reunion and his own shows. This implies he recognizes that time should pass between the two. I contend that even more time should. How about just waiting until the new year to do shows? Again, Mike can book shows whenever he wants. And once again, he will be characterized accordingly as not being able or willing to just give it a little breathing room. I contend his reasons for not giving it any breathing room are mostly selfish.

I'm also not in total agreement with your "timeline." We don't know when Mike booked the shows. Nobody seems to know, and maybe it doesn't matter. He may have booked them last year. We just don't know. The cancellation of Nutty Jerry's again suggests Mike may well have been able to cancel his additional October bookings, perhaps with some financial consequences. But it could have been done.

I also simply don't agree with this last part of your timeline: "Mike said that they couldn`t as he had other shows booked." This is the crux of a big part of my problem with these contentions. Apart from all the stuff I've already said about how the bookings were all by Mike's CHOICE, this also all ignores that Mike's not wanting to do more reunion shows right now is about far more than a few October gigs. If the Mike press release that started this all off had stated "Mike and Bruce had prior committments and will be performing with their lineup for the following October dates", and had then gone on to describe more reunion shows for November or December or next year, then I would believe that this was a "oops, booked a few October gigs, gotta get them out of the way and hold off on more reunion shows in October" situation.

You are kind of contradicting what you yourself wrote today but...

None of us knows the specifics of the relevant tours. Your idea about morphing the M&B shows into reunion shows certainly wouldn`t have worked though. The tours are completely different.

I agree that Mike could have cancelled the tours but I don`t like the way that it is being implied by some that that would have been a morally honourable thing to do. It wouldn`t. Fans, promoters and venues shouldn`t be let down like that just because someone`s had a better offer.

The issue of switching back and forth between M&B shows and reunion shows is an interesting one. That would have been a long way from ideal and of course none of us know exactly when these extra reunion shows could have taken place or whether that would have been feasible.

I don't think venues or promoters offer gigs to band and just let the band pick where and when to do the gigs. Maybe the additional offers were made in late August or something, or early September. Maybe they were made specific offers for specific dates well after September or October. The mention of a new year's show suggest that is a possibility.

I'm almost sure that M/B have played Beau Rivage every second week of October since at least 2001-2002. When I was there in 2003, a manager type person told me after the show that the casino probably has already booked next year's show. This is a HUGE week in Biloxi with vintage car and muscle car shows covering the town. Having the BB play the weekend nights is a tradition. I'm sure Mike feels some sort of alegiance to them for repetive bookings for so long. And the show will go on with his band.

Nutty Jerry's was cancelled because Nutty Jerry f-ed it up, not because Mike just wanted to or to take a better deal.

I think it's time they start touring as "Mike Love & Bruce Johnston of The Beach Boys" so that we don't have to deal with this bidness.

Al can start up his "Family & Friends" band again.

And Brian can continue to be the greatest songwriter of the 20th century and be able to tour using his name alone.

Leave "The Beach Boys" for when they're all touring as a band.

Thank you. The smoking gun. What's so bad about touring with the full band for some really big shows? I really wish someone would put it to Mike as clearly as the above statement. Your personal mileage may vary, but in my opinion, he used a vague 'end date' of the tour as his own personal escape hatch. And not one of you Mike-apologists can tell me any different.

Whether Brian and Al are airing dirty laundry is beside the point...why isn't Mike addressing these offers of MSG and Wrigley? Why isn't Michael giving a freaking olive branch to the fan base by addressing what will happen in 2013? Probably because he really doesn't want to...the greedy little bast'd.

I don't think morphing the gigs into reunion shows was completely undoable. A venue that had booked the Mike/Bruce show would have gladly taken the 50th lineup instead, trust me. It would have made less money on those particular gigs. But morphing them could have included rescheduling at a nearby larger venues, or a million other possibilities.

As for Mike cancelling shows, this is getting into kind of a sketchy area. Shows have been cancelled already due to the reunion. The April Mike/Bruce gigs were cancelled. The Nutty Jerry's show was cancelled. I don't want to see fans let down either. But sorry Biloxi, it may sound cut-throat, but I would support Biloxi fans taking one for the team and having the shows cancelled if that was really all that was keeping the entire globe from potentially getting more reunion gigs.  :lol

This of course gets us back to the concept that the October gigs didn't cause the end of the reunion, they were one of the indications or symptoms of the reunion ending.

You engaged in a debate about this recently and ended up saying that you couldn`t disagree with the reasoning behind him not wanting to sit around until next year. Not sure why you are conveniently forgetting that now.


Well, that is the reason given by Mike in his statement and obviously is relevant to the smooth continuation of the tour that Brian and Al presumably wanted.

I can understand why any statement wouldn`t have mentioned the possibility of any future reunion plans. It wouldn`t exactly look good to say, `you can buy tickets to watch me and Bruce now but if you wait a while you could see all 5 Beach Boys`. Not a great marketing ploy.

I don't think we know for sure exactly who f'ed up with Nutty Jerry's. There aren't even clear reports on who cancelled the gig. The venue says they cancelled it, while Mike's PR person/agent, whomever it was, stated that Mike chose to cancel the show.

It probably would be a good idea for Brian and Al and Mike [and Carl's estate] to first talk it over before people begin implying or inferring commitments binding some or all of them.

Sorry but the idea is completely unrealistic. It really is. Now some of the other comments that you`ve made have some relevance but this one is utterly ludicrous and shows a complete lack of understanding of how touring works.

Mike's guy said it was never contracted so I'm thinking it's pretty certain Nutty Jerry's f-ed it up [back in June] just as they say.

I'm not sure which of my comments you're referring to, but I believe I have stated numerous times that Mike's reasoning for his decisions makes sense. But when I say that, I mean I can objectively say that it makes sense for him, if he is looking out for himself and his interests.

Regarding the "smooth continuation" of the tour, I don't really see anything that indicates Brian and Al needed a "smooth continuation"  in order to continue to do reunion shows. In fact, the timeline suggests they knew about at least one of the October bookings, were unhappy with but resigned to it, but still wanted to (and presumably still want to right now) do more reunion shows.

As for your final statement, I agree that trying to sell a Mike/Bruce show in light of future reunion shows would be bad marketing. Hence mine and many fan's feeling that they shouldn't have reverted back to the Mike/Bruce lineup at this point. I was saying this before the reunion tour started, that Mike's band would be seen in a different light after the reunion. As I've said before, knowing this before the tour started gave me a lot of respect for Mike doing the reunion knowing this would happen. But apparently he knew or certainly now knows this is the case, but kind of just doesn't really care.

I understand it just fine. My "not completely undoable" comment was to suggest that it would not have been easy or ideal. I don't see how cancelling the gigs and rescheduling larger venues in the same markets with the reunion band would have been undoable, though.

Again, I reiterate that getting hung up on this idea that a few October gigs were of any large consequence is what is ludicrous. I've said numerous times that they could have done the gigs, or cancelled them, or rescheduled them, or freaking added Ricky Fataar and Rick Astley to the band, they could have done or not done anything regarding those gigs and still continued the reunion tour.

If I may add to this....Yes, Brian had 100% attendance and participation (well, he was there) in the reunion. But, let's be honest. He's still Brian Wilson, and you still have to deal with that, or him. I concede that he wants to continue the reunion in some form, and, incidently, he hasn't exactly been very specific as to what terms he would agree to. So, before you (Mike) start issuing statements about how you're looking forward to continuing along WITH BEACH BOY BRIAN WILSON, you better have things worked out. Just because Brian wants to be a Beach Boy in October, doesn't insure that he would want to be one in November. History has shown that. Things could've been worked out ahead of time. They had enough time during the tour to negotiate. I blame Mike AND Brian for that.

I think this is a very reasonable statement, although I don't think Brian is quite that much of a wildcard at this particular moment in time anyway. I think both of them (and the entire camp) seem to have been doing a lot more guessing or assuming what the others are thinking or planning or capable of rather than discussing it. But who knows, maybe *not* discussing it is what held the whole thing together for as long as it did. If such a media storm had broken in, say, May or June, the tour would have either imploded, gone on awkwardly, or maybe forced them into making more definitive decisions about what was going to come next.

The apparent "let's just get through this tour and sort the rest out later" attitude on this tour may have been its saving grace, or its downfall.

Ok. To be honest, it seems like there is a bi-polar aspect to your posts (I don`t mean that in an offensive way). The realistic view of the situation in which you have said that you were kind of surprised that Mike agreed to doing the reunion tour at all. And the unrealistic view of the situation in which you imply that you think that Mike should have essentially resigned himself to the fact that doing the reunion tour meant that he might never be able to use the name again for the M&B shows.

Now I would love it if the reunited Beach Boys could continue from here on in but life isn`t that simple. I also don`t believe that these statements coming out from Mike and Brian are as simple as they seem either.

This whole issue of 'how could they advertise Mike and Bruce shows with full reunion shows on the horizon' is moot. Brian did an unplugged (more or less) 6 man show for Capitol executives and then was urged by Jeff to do some more unplugged shows.

So we saw the 6 piece with Gary Griffin, Scotty, Probyn, Nicky, Jeff and Brian play some casino shows. And yes...there wasn't a whole mess a difference between their setlist and a standard M&B setlist. The shows I saw in Vancouver, BC were awesome by the way. The point being however was that no one felt ripped off or slighted in any way - it was just a different, temporary configuration. Ergo, there's no reason why M&B couldn't do their standard dink town circuit while promoting upcoming big, bodacious reunion shows. They two would and could coexist.

I'd love to be there again Friday night just to hear what Mike has to say. If anything. BUT, I did walk out when Duke of Earl started last time. This time, the sight of Stamos would do it.

I think what you're seeing is that I'm arguing in favor of what I feel is preferable, and also stepping back and acknowledging what is or isn't realistic. I can't assume anybody wants to or is able to juggle these two lines of discussion at the same time. So, I'm able to say that I'm not surprised that Mike is the way he is, but I also will criticize him for being that way if or when I feel that way.

No one here knows the relevant facts behind all this; both publicly issued statements are pretty much devoid of hard facts and we are speculating pretty much based on one's pre-dispositions as to either ML or BW (plus AJ and DM to an extent). Eight (8) pages worth and rising! Jeesh.....
Just making an observation.....   

I wonder why the band are letting the world see this sh*t happening. Can't they talk to each other?

I say Brian's PR guy is an idiot for letting this out.

It's a power play I'd say. I agree that there's no way these issues haven't been even casually discussed while they were in the final stretch of the London shows.

Internally, someone said something. Others didn't like it and decided to go nuclear. Go to the press. Happens in the sports world all the time. And it's not necessarily a bad thing - merely leverage.

Think about it - it's a calculated move.
Not a good one, but....

Once again, why is everybody having a debate about whether these few "Mike & Bruce" shows are occurring? In the long run, it's unimportant. What's important is that Mike hasn't gave us much of an impression that he would like to continue working with Brian and Al in the near future. That is what bothering people like me. All this tit-for-tat about who knew about this show when and where and whatever doesn't matter. It's the fact that Mike and Bruce seemed somehow resentful of how well the 50th anniversary tour was going and seemed almost giddy to get back to the cheapie band.

I hate to sound like the professor but all it would take out of Mike to shut most of us up would be to say, "yeah we booked a few shows with our band, but Bruce and I are looking forward to getting back in the studio with Brian, Al, and Dave to work on material for our next album"!

However, the reason he hasn't done something like this is probably because that's not what he really wants to do. He feels comfortable with his half-assed version of "The Beach Boys" and probably doesn't see the point in putting out more albums like TWGMTR. So crazy as it is, after all these years, despite what I thought, Mike wasn't as into getting back to work with Brian as I had thought. I thought that was Mike's ultimate goal, to get back to work with Brian and make more great music. But apparently his ego really is even bigger then we could have imagined. While he is extremely grateful that Brian wrote so much of the great music that he performs every night, he believes that he is The Beach Boys and that deviating from what he's doing now just isn't worthwhile.



It is just me or doesn't it seem like ol' Andrew seems to definitely taken a "side" on this? The near giddiness about the reunion having a set end date? The certainty about it? Not wanting it to continue? I know we like to kid about who has major "sources" are, and I've said this before, but I definitely think our friend AGD is close with our favorite tea bagger, Bruce Johnston. And that is why Andrew, despite the awesome 2012 that The Beach Boys have had, doesn't want it to continue. Because his greedy friend and his greedy friend's boss aren't interested in it.

I think one interesting thing is that people did assume Mike was desperate to work with Brian again and I`m not sure why. Brian I believe suggested writing with Mike before Lucky Old Sun and that didn`t work out because Mike wanted to do it like the old days.

This tour happened because they all realized it was a business opportunity. That obviously includes Mike but certainly Melinda as well.

If Mike doesn`t want to work with the other guys again then there is nothing wrong with that in itself. Loads of singers don`t want to work with their bands anymore. Disappointing for the fans of course but not wrong. If Mike never wants to do a reunion gig again then he is entitled to make that choice.

The issue obviously comes with still using the BBs name. If Al and Brian don`t like it then they really ought to vote for revoking the licence. But that would be a bad business move and I`m not sure I see it happening...

The only thing I would question about that is that you only mention about how Mike is...

Now Mike clearly is business orientated, has been used to doing things his own way, can be difficult to deal with, thinks that after the last 14 years he has the right to use the BBs name etc.

But how about how Melinda and the rest of Brian`s camp is?

Since 1998 there have been numerous derogatory comments about Mike and the other Beach Boys and the statements have come out about how Brian would never reunite with the other members. This year was seen as a business opportunity though (and maybe they felt that Brian almost needed The Beach Boys name again) so suddenly all was forgotten as long as they did it their way in terms of the album and the touring. Obviously by changing the original agreement from 50 to 75 shows and then wanting to add more again they have moved the goalposts and presumably expected Mike to go along with it.

Both sides seem slightly nightmarish to me and they were always likely to butt heads at some point.

Seems to me the key point in all of this is the phrase "press release in those markets".  Brian's attorney wanted local clarifications in those areas, he got a global open-ended statement which sounded like this was the Beach Boys from now on.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I gotta feeling it's only a matter of time this thread is probably going to be locked as well lol

Back when this first came up, I said the situation was surely a simple one. Mike was adhering to the letter of the contract. Brian had come to enjoy touring with the full band and wanted it to continue in some way.

For whatever reason, the parties couldn't agree to this behind the scenes. So when Mike issued his somewhat ill-timed and poorly worded press release, it was a chance for Brian and Al to apply public pressure to Mike. Now that Mike tried to settle things with his LA Times piece -- but without committing to working with the rest of the guys -- Brian and his camp is going to keep up the pressure.

Brian has now officially allied with Al, as stated in the piece. This would send a message to Mike that the license is surely once again a subject for discussion. And if a proposal is made that the name "The Beach Boys" can only be applied to a group consisting of X members -- well, that's when things get interesting, isn't it?

I doubt this is a publicity ploy. This is merely everyone reverting to the personality types and behaviors that are familiar and that they know best. Mike is pugnacious and looking out for himself. Brian is playing the victim to get what he wants. Al is trying to pick the winning side. I don't think Brian looks bad in this, regardless of how folks want to spin it. He will always be the genius behind the band, and Mike will always be the heel, at least in the popular imagination.

I can't imagine how this is going to end to everyone's satisfaction. And Mike has disappointed me, yet again. Each time, it gets a little harder to forgive the man. But such are the challenges of BB fandom.

As long as AGD doesn't bring up penis size again it should be just fine

Key word there is "solo".  The underlying issue is still that that press release defined Mike and Bruce's band as the ongoing Beach Boys, apparently ending the reunion.  No one had a problem with Brian or Mike playing solo shows in between their Beach Boys gigs, even back in the '80s -- neither one laid claim to the Beach Boys name in the process.

If this whole thing could be settled just by officially billing Mike's band as "Mike Love's Beach Boys", I'd be all for it...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I'm with sweetdudejim on this one.  No matter how good or bad everyone thought the reunion album/tour would go, it's been quite clear for several months now that the whole endeavor has been a smashing success.  In light of this, the fact that in it's original conception, the whole thing was intended to be finite is irrelevant.  For me, and obviously many other fans, seeing this summer's configuration of The Beach Boys rendered the Mike and Bruce version of the band obsolete.  A facsimile of the real deal.  It only worked prior to this year because that was how all parties wanted it, but that is no longer the case.

Bottom line, Brian Wilson wants to be a Beach Boy again, and if his cousin truly cares about him or the legacy of their band, he should re-evaluate his notions about touring and "diluting the brand".  He's had a good run with Bruce, and admirably worked his ass off to bring the music to many happy fans over the years, but as "Brianista" as this sounds, I think the right thing to do would be to dissolve "The Beach Boys" and spend what precious time they all have left with Brian at the helm and touring/recording/whatever as THE BEACH BOYS.

Exactly, well said!  If everyone went out and did their own thing when they wanted, and reserved "The Beach Boys" only for albums and tours with all 5 members, this whole situation would be a non-starter.

Exactly. I wonder how someone like Scott Totten or John Cowsill feels about this? What must it be like going from Wembley to these tiny venues, knowing that your boss now refuses to tour with the man who created the beautiful music you play?

I don't get it....did Mike say he would never work with Brian and the group again?  No.

Can we really expect Brian and Al to keep up Mike and Bruce's normal touring pace every year?  No.

Has Mike ever shown signs of stopping or taking long hiatuses throughout the year in between strings of shows?  No.

Are The Beach Boys any less The Beach Boys when they work together again in the future in 2013 or 2014?  No.

They looked bored in the recent Waco show videos.

He didn't promise that he would, either. Or that he expected to. Given that Brian and Al enthusiastically want to continue, this lack of any commitment at all from Mike certainly suggests that to him this reunion is over and done. Full stop.


Of course not. But Mike doesn't have to tour like this. If he insists upon it, he doesn't have to use the Beach Boys name.


What does that have to do with anything? The point is, Brian and Al want things to be different.


Show me where Mike has expressed any interest in playing any more shows with the full lineup. He simply has not.

And does any of this mean that Mike Love should call his group "The Beach Boys", therefore confusing people more if he finally decides to work with the other guys again?


NO!

sweetdude, why do you hate to sound like the professor?  I like what you say, sir: all we want is for them to be together again sometime soon with a plan for more of what that that have been celebrating. It is they that have sold us on the idea about reunion and harmony and how its just so right to be together. We agreed, and all we want is the natural artistic evolution of all that promise and harmony theory, that is to say, another album that says more, that gives voice to all the members and all their feelings and awareness and inspiration and craft.

Didn't mean that in a mean way, prof! Just felt like I was kinda rippin' off your style!

For those who support Mike in this, I'd like to explain something. Those of us who are backing Brian and Al (and Dave) do not hate Mike. (Most of us, at least.) What's more, most of us didn't mind that Mike toured under the band's name for nearly 15 years. He earned the right and did a good job and kept the music alive.

But Mike did not create the group or the music. He was a key player, but far from the only one. When Brian and Al (and Dave) returned for the tour, things changed. And I understand that contracts might not have changed. But minds and opinions and experiences did. The full group gave so much more than anyone expected. Mike was part of that -- but so was Al, and so was Dave, and so was -- in every possible way -- Brian.

Things changed.

And now that Brian wants to continue, and now that Al wants to continue, our perspectives have changed. We can't accept Mike as the Beach Boys anymore, because other members of the band -- the majority of members of the band, and half of the shareholders of BRI -- want to be included. And I'm sorry that this makes some people unhappy, or that they think we're unrealistic or pie in the sky or whatever.

I don't care. The fact is, this is a band that should be together. If Mike is unwilling or unable to accept that, the name should be retired. If he is unwilling to retire the name, he should no longer be allowed to tour under it without the other guys.

sweetdude, we are cool, and I was flattered.

We now have a chess game with all the pieces in place; both camps have moved. Now Mike must answer the cal of Time and Eternity and call Brian and pledge to work together in unity, if not in all the minor shows then in the larger future of the BB recording and performing nationally, especially in any heralded venues like the Bowl or MSG or the Grammys, etc.

I am going to predict: Mike comes through and we soon hear that they are writing together and planning the next BB album. Mark my words. I am confident.

Should it not just be majority rules (i.e. Henley, Frey boot Felder..Eddie and Alex boot Mike Anthony). If the majority of the shareholders want things to really change, then you should be able to make things change.

Maybe the economics of the Mike and Bruce tours are not that far off the reunion numbers, in terms of take home, for Mike.  And maybe it's a lot less stress.

Well said. :thumbsup

I'm just not subscribing to this "doomsday"/"end of the world" scenario that it's now or never. If the miraculous events of this summer can happen---I don't see why it couldn't happen again at some point in the future.   I support the entire band but I'm painfully aware of each members' faults and the reality of the situation: the huge clash of different needs/wants/abilities from each member in the band makes it near impossible to come to an accommodation that satisfies the entire group for a permanent touring/recording situation.  I (and everyone here) can go on and on and on about "what's right" for the band and their legacy but that doesn't change the characters in the game, especially since they are well into their ways as 70 year olds.

The difference with me and everyone else is the fact that I could care less about Mike and Bruce using the "Beach Boys" name.  Mike and Bruce sneaking around the country playing small markets hardly puts a blip on my radar.  If they're in my city and I see an ad on Facebook...I'll go.  Aside from that, I pay them no mind.  I'm happy this summer happened and I will be reliving it through the many YouTube clips online and the new live DVD coming out.  I'm treating all this like the kid of divorced parents who got to spend the summer at dad's and it's now time go back home to live with mom again.  Yes, it'd be nice if mom and dad were together so we could all be one big happy family again but I know that it just isn't going to happen.  So all that's left are holidays and birthdays for all of us being together and that will just have to do.

That's a legitimate, but really depressing, way of looking at it.

why don't they simply do both,have mike and bruce do their shows and at the same time do the shows with Brian an Al just on different days,it's not like Mike and bruce are booked every day...that would fix the whole situation....

I am hoping this gets sorted out soon, the band kicked butt in 2012 and restored the luster to BBs name.

some sanity in the asylum!! Pretty simple really. The Beach Boys can no longer be M & B and Stamos.

I feel Mike should honor his contracts, but after that the Beach Boys as Mike and Bruce is no longer valid in any shape or form.  Brian and Al are just as important as Mike and Bruce is never going to be an original Beach Boy. Where is Dave in all this? He was a huge part of the success of the reunion and their first four albums (the ones that made them famous) wouldn't have been nearly as good without him.

That said I still feel if these guys would talk face to face with each other instead of through the press, their agents, their wives, etc.  the problems would be solved. 

It really shouldn`t be a case of either supporting Mike or supporting Brian and Al. Fans shouldn`t have to form factions. I would completely agree that if Brian and Al are really serious about this then they should get the licence revoked. Like most other people on the board I would love it if the reunion could continue (if it`s done correctly). I do wonder if there would have to be more compromise from Brian`s management if it were to happen though...

Well, looks like Brian's management "merely suggested" such a press release, but Mike claimes they "requested" it...

I'm nabbing Howie's post from another thread, because I think he sums it up better than anyone. He's really knocking it out of the park these days.

I'm convinced Brian's representatives want the reunion to continue - because, as we all know, Brian is incapable of making his own decisions...and the tour was very lucrative, so of course Melinda and the gang want it to go on. If Brian bothered to speak up for himself, he would be more likely to prefer staying at home, laying in bed, and walking downstairs to the piano as the mood strikes him to plonk out a few melodies on the piano.

Brian has stated of his own accord, and of his own free will, that he wants to keep doing it. To reporters. Multiple times.

And if you tell me he's being manipulated, then I will likewise argue that there's no possible way that Mike wants to continue touring, and that Jackie is forcing him to do it.

The article is on yahoo now, they didn't have the Love statement but they had Brian's instead and the comments on the article are pretty harsh, mostly against Mike, I could imagine the comments on Mikes Facebook page now.

Sigh. So many things to say.

1) Brian Wilson is not a fucking vegetable being dragged out to make money for his missus. A nice way to look at his condition. He is totally capable of making his own decisions, as we have seen.

2) Do you ever ask for advice? From your wife/spouse/boss/doctor/significant other/colleagues/pets/kids/friends/the speaking clock? Well, you must be a braindead goon, manipulated by them. Not simply asking for help, guidance, or reassurance. I can imagine that you are being especially manipulated when you have an anxiety disorder and at times low self-esteem.

3) Brian's never made any money from touring in America. If anything, he would have made less money touring with The Beach Boys, just like Mike is apparently making less money.

4) Brian Wilson spent the the late 60's and 70's laying in bed, doing nothing and popping down to the piano to occasionally write a melody. He became suicidally depressed, gained weight to around 300lbs, lost his voice and huge swathes of his musical faculty and by all accounts should have died. He should definitely do that again. Yes sir.

myth.

Correct. Until Brian came back from Holland he was out and about a good deal of the time. More than one person told me they noticed he changed upon return. He became more reclusive after Murry died, but never spent years in bed. Pretty productive musically through 1970-71 too.

I feel Brian enjoyed the tour, maybe he wants to be a full time Beach Boy again. Still his management, and Mike's, handled things poorly the last few weeks. In both cases the wives are very involved in said management. To be fair all involved did a great job until Mike's first press release. Brian and Mike's pieces could very well be how they feel, but the fact remains is that the people around them make things more complex than it would be if they talked it out themselves. This has been happening in one form or another ever since the mid seventies when The Beach Boys began to talk more through lawyers than in person. If they want to be a group from here I think they need to be a complete unit and combine factions in all forms of management.

What does that even mean?

I happened upon this while searching for information on the mysterious "Brian Love." From Mike's daughter's formspring account, which is basically a site where you answer anonymous questions from people:


Q: ambha sweet girl, give the world a hand. tell your dad to stay touring with brian al and dave for us. you know they want this, the world wants this, how come dad wouldnt?

A: It's more complicated than it seems. It doesn't have to do with money greed or anyone in the band. My dad truly loves brian and everyone else. It's the shady people Brian is around that my dad can not stand working with. Maybe and hopefully something will change though. We shall see :) let's just hope for the best.

http://www.formspring.me/aloveeeeee3

Also, as far as both parties' statements, wouldn't it make sense to release a live DVD when everyone in the world thinks there's no way that group of people will ever reunite again? Just sayin'.

Well if that doesn't make my point than nothing will. They are divided at this point only because the teams need to play ball and become a real unit.

Brian as a solo act is notorious for not making money touring.

This tour seems to be making less money for the principles than is standard fare - this is one of Mike's beefs with the whole enterprise. Seeing as the set up for the tour is Brian's, but in bigger venues, it is entirely possible there isn't a huge financial bonus (some, but not oodles of dollar) for Brian as opposed to touring solo. If Mike is making less money than usual, Brian probably is too. Hence, the accusation Brian is being touted on this tour to fill wife&managers wallet is spurious.

As is my logic, probably  ;D

Aegir & Mike, I know it's a myth. I should have probably said 'Brian left to his own devices' or something. Soz.

How can Brian make less money than nothing?  :)

Mike may have made less money than he normally does because of all the expenses and because he and Bruce run a tight ship. But Brian will undoubtedly have made more than he normally does because of the much bigger crowds, the meets and greets, the merchandise etc.

Not saying that is the only reason that the band reunited but if it hadn`t made any business sense then I doubt Melinda would have been interested.

If Brian's solo tour is an independent legal entity, then he could very well make oodles of money from it while the entity itself loses money.  Maybe the reason the solo tours don't make money is because he overpays himself, for example.

The wives spoiled the reunion. As could be expected.

I did say it was spurious  ;D

who are the 'shady people around Brian' and why are they shady? His wife? Foskett? Darian?

To be honest, the 'my band needs money too' argument carries a lot more weight to me than the 'Brian's camp are a bunch of jerks' argument. It's the same old thing since 1967, if you ask me. I'm not blaming or casting anyone as a villain, but it's unbelievable how similar this drama is to every other drama associated with those madmen.

Mike has been saying negative things about Brian`s management for years to be fair and Mike obviously had to compromise a lot for the reunion tour. I`m certainly not saying that that makes Brian`s camp jerks but from Mike`s perspective they could be seen to be very demanding and only interested in Brian (which would be sensible from their perspective).

It can`t simply be about money as M&B don`t have a packed schedule right now.

I think what people object to is the opinion that Mike should suffer these consequences or is this kind of jerk because of something he hasn't said or done. This is stuff that the board needs to work on or at least discuss before people start making public statements.

Edit: by "board" I meant BRI's board

Did somebody say "shady"? ...

Seriously though Mike's daughter put an interesting spin on things. Maybe Mike's had enough of Brian's "people"

Ah...so now it's back to the whole "cousin Brian is being manipulated by bad people" thing. Lovely.

Just because Brian is living his life the way he wants does not mean it is "wrong". Sorry Mike. I seriously think Mike prefers the guy who was depressed out of his mind, but churning out half-assed surf tunes at MIU. I think that was probably the situation where Mike probably felt Brian was best since like 1970. He had him there to write songs for him, and he had him under control and some boring ass location where he could watch him. Sad.

Unless Mike wants to continue on with Brian and Al, the name should be retired. I'm glad he's being called to task for trying to sneak this version of the group out when there are two principal members who are ready and willing to keep the real group together.

What are you basing that on? Nothing at all presumably...

There are several people besides Mike who have left the Brian fold because of the strangeness of his current situation.

I am as guilty as the next for posting pure opinion and conjecture, though I try to be terse and focused positively on what might really happen, based on the exact statements and information. But the thread is degenerating into a sewing circle again. I will step away until credible intelligence appears that explain the plans for the band. No sense on continuing this series of assays between camps on the discussion board.

 Brian said "call me."  I'll wait for Mike's call and the new announcements.

THIS

Are Bruce and David going to have a response printed in the LA Times?  LOL

This should be a TV soap opera!

My general feelings now...

I can completely understand Brian`s perspective on this. From his point of view the tour and album went well, he`s enjoyed it and they have more offers to continue. Absolutely fair enough.

I get what Mike`s perspective might be too. For him this was probably always meant to be a one-off and he agreed to all of the demands of Brian`s management in terms of band members, the album, the touring expenses and changing the setlists. He then extended the tour when it was demanded and probably feels he did everything that he originally agreed to and more.

The only good point about things is that at least this all blew up after the tour had basically ended and they finished, if they have finished, on a high.

Totally agree with this!

As I said many times before, I don't like Mike&Bruce to tour under the Beach Boys' name (never did like it). And I agree that after this reunion things have changed (as someone else mentioned in this thread). The Beach Boys are a big thing again now and not the small combo of Mike & Bruce (who - I still think - have a very good band). The Beach Boys again is big business and, like Brian mentioned in his press statement, did reclaim a lot of their legacy with the reunion tour and releases that went hand in hand with it (I include also the Smile Sessions box set) not unlike Brian did with his own legacy when he started to become a big (or at least critically acclaimed) touring act (which imo had a lot to do with the way people started to look at the Beach Boys but that's another topic).

But as long as they don't talk face to face with each other the band won't ever become a family thing again but will stay a business. So it's up to them to change it and the first step has to come from Brian - and not in a press statement.
BTW I am very happy that Brian actually cares again about the band he and his family built. I support that very much. It started out - as Mike often said - as a love thing (no pun!) and it's great if it could come back to being that. Family & friends. But this is not the way to do it.

But Mike & Bruce have contracts that they must fulfill. Nobody (at least not me) said that this would end everything. Just because Mike doesn't mention the possibility of another Beach Boys tour/album it doesn't mean he wasn't open for it. He said in another interview that he would like to record another album if he gets to write songs with Brian. Someone who was at the Grammy Museum show said that Mike told Al he was willing to talk about more Beach Boys work.
So I don't get why so may people think he doesn't wanna work with the guys again. It's just that he has other things to do right now.
And as someone wrote, it would be very dumb for him to say that another Beach Boys tour will happen soon while he is doing promotion for his and Bruce's shows (and while nothing is planned for a Beach Boys tour).

Even before the reunion tour started I mentioned that I'd fear there would be problems regarding the name afterwards. Looks like I was right (although some people didn't agree with me). As I've often said before, I'd liked if the name would've been put to rest after a successful and loveable tour. Not only go out on a high but on a positive note.
I also feared that when they get used to be around each other the problems would start again. I still think so.

But if they should continue on I of course would support them. But they can't just go out without a plan imo. It should be planned very carefully. A new album certainly won't be as successful as TWGMTR because the fact it was a reunion album sold many copies - they should know that. But even more important imo is that they can't just release an album full of throwaway material/re-recordings, etc. An album of that kind as your last (and let's keep realistic, we don't know if they even get to record another one) would be a big, big damage for the legacy. And they all have a big responsibility to carry regarding the band. If not for themselves than at least for Dennis, Carl, Murry and Audree.

My last post in this thread. I don't know what else I could possibly say without repeating myself (which I've probably done already).

11 pages and no shutdown or Sandboxing - might be a record for a thread about an issue like this.

I'd personally say that the most suitable way to get the five guys on stage again without getting Mike worried about "overexposure" would be to have them do a few of the big outdoor fests next year - Bonnaroo, the Baltimore VirginFest, Coachella. That way they would reach the "new generation" - and we all know that Mike takes a keen interest in the welfare of America's young people, especially the ones with halter tops and cutoff jeans. That approach would also jumpstart sales of the CDs. It would keep Stamos off the stage because Mike and Bruce would be obliged to realize that for these types of audiences, Uncle Jesse is not all that readily distinguishable from Wilford Brimley. (Whereas Brian's admirer Zooey Deschanel would likely be OK.) Anyway, that's my notion for the day.

(Forgot to mention in the above that I was just watching some of the Youtube clips from last week's Austin show with Stamos. Indeed, it was all for the best that he was limited to that night at the Beacon Theater during the 50th tour - and not just because that improved the value of those guitar picks on eBay.)

I'm basing it off of the fact that the one time Mike had some reasonable amount of "control" over what Brian was doing, he holed him up in Iowa to write formula tunes. I don't think that's what he'd do now, but whatever.

My thing is, Mike seems to think Brian would all of the sudden be this super happy guy if he could just start writing together all the time. That's just not the case.

And Ian, yes, Brian's situation is weird. But it's not like the Landy era. He chose his wife. And he trusts her to do what's best for him. And he likes his band. So therefore, even though I don't consider myself a Brianista, he should tell Mike that either The Beach Boys proceed together or "The Beach Boys" won't be an active touring group anymore.

He chose Landy too. And Mike Love. Brian always surrounds himself with slightly overbearing handlers/mouthpieces who take all the blame whenever anything goes wrong, tho he actually is the one passive-aggressively controlling the strings. The roles and figures change at his whim, and there isn't one person in there now who wouldn't assume the villain role in Brian-fan eyes, if he cast them aside tomorrow, including Melinda.

I suppose this is possible, perhaps likely. But it's interesting to note that, at least presently, Al and David don't have an issue with Brian's "people." They have in the past for sure, Al stated in that BBC documentary circa 2005 that he missed Brian and nobody would let him talk to Brian. But Al and David are able to work around or with Brian's people now. What this *may* suggest is that if this is Mike's issue, it's not neccesarily a case where Brian's camp is making things literally undoable, but rather that they don't do things to Mike's liking. What his "liking" is we simply don't know. If he has a problem with Brian's camp, is it about little stuff like setlist selections, or big stuff like business arrangements? They also had the Joe Thomas buffer, easily the best thing Thomas has ever done for the band. Where is Thomas in all of this? All interesting things to ponder.

I agree with this; well stated! The words from Brian and Al seem to be about applying more broad pressure to get Mike to continue the reunion. Whether they are successful or not, or whether this is conducive to a harmonious continuation of the reuion is of course up for debate. But I for one like that they're doing it (assuming this is what they're doing), because I firmly believe at this point that they have nothing to lose, at least as it pertains to working together. I don't think Mike would ever instigate more reunion stuff, so the only way it would happen is with some prodding and convincing from others.

Wives always spoil everything!!

 >:D

When I'm talking about how I would rate or judge Mike, I'm thinking more about how the BB's decisions have been for the fans. Mike has done far more to sour fans on himself than Brian ever has, even setting aside the fact that they wrote the music we love. Even if we just look at later artistic and logistic decisions, I think the actions that have been taken over the years weight heavily against Mike. He doesn't deserve all the ad hominem attacks over the years, and sometimes has been incorrectly blamed for things or his actions or opinions have been exaggerated. But a lot of the criticism, meaning the fair, non-ad hominem criticism, of Mike over the years has been, in my view, valid.

I'm sure Brian's camp is not easy to work with, even if you're not a Beach Boy. But Mike's camp is probably difficult to work with too. They all made it work this year, so if they really do care about the fans like they say, they can make that happen again later this year or next year. The thing is, Brian and Al seem to be trying to do just that, and Mike isn't on board apparently.

Yeah, keep it in the kitchen ladies  :smokin

Brian and Al and company dont need MIKE and Bruce Plain and Simple

True, but perhaps a step too far. The issue with these overbearing types is how much advantage they take of Brian, and how far that relationship goes. Melinda, for all her faults, seems to have ultimately found a good balance. Landy had a decent balance at the beginning, but went off the deep end toward the end, and arguably damaged Brian permanently.

But the pattern -- Brian enabling lots of hangers on to provide static so he can float along obliviously -- is well established. You have no argument from me there.

Having met Mike Love, and personally experienced his "shady" vibe, it's hard to believe it's not the other way around.
I was backstage/dressing room area and it was mostly all "Mike" people.  Brian and band went straight to the bus. Then Al and Dave.
The Mike/Bruce entourage left milling about.

1) The suggestion by Brian's rep were for local press releases where the Mike/Bruce show was booked.  Not a National Press release in the LA Times.  Mike and his rep made the decision to go National in every way.

2) The Mike/Bruce shows could have been rescheduled but with dates booked and band in wait, I understand them going forth.

Bottom Line:  I don't think there was anything shady here at all.  Just some poor communication between parties. At this point, Mike and Bruce need to do their shows and Brian should start on the one last Beach Boys album he said he wanted to make.  Finish that and then Brian can go out again with the real Beach Boys and promote the new album on tour.

This is a mild bump compared to their prior lawsuits and drama.  It will blow over.

Brian could only do that if Al and Carl's Estate's attorney both agree.

'To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public'

Jack got it spot on. This whole situation has now gotten completely out of hand and threatens to undo all the good work of the past year.

Could happen (and it should at some point) but I think Brian is a class act and would not initiate (with Al/Carl estate) such action with the Mike/Bruce show on tour right now (though they always seem perceptually "on tour").
And that would probably blow anything from happening in 2013.

Obviously. And I have this odd feeling that Al would go along with Brian. And though Carl's vote is a toss-up I'm figuring they are more likely to go long with their brother-in-law than Mike Love.

I love that quote.

Spot on indeed

I honestly don't understand what Mike and Bruce get out of touring small venues, the money can't be that great for guys wealthy as them.

Mike realizes the big venues could not possibly go on and on, whereas his M/B band could and will. Plus, now with Stamos up front again and those other guys gone, the band looks much less geriatric than this Summer.

There are whispers of incorporating Dave Coulier into the act to boost credibility with the young, groovy demographic that thinks Dave Coulier is, and I quote: "outta sight."

"Cut It Out"

I agree, tho many, and I am not speaking of fans, disagree.

You oughtta know!

Each of the bands, has not done big venues exclusively.  Brian's band and Al's band have done funky old redone community theatres, which adds to the charm of the performances.  Some were built during the vaudeville days.  I notice that the band will recognize "return" customers to a lot of these venues, and there is a certain connection that has been cultivated in a lot of these diverse venues.  

At a point, it is not all about money, I don't think. It is charitable "give-back" and the gratification of the kind of goodwill and business that you've cultivated and built.  The Touring Band seems to enjoy a freedom that the C50 band (despite its magnificence) did not.  

There is a sort of familiarity with only comes with return engagements, getting to know BB fans in outlying areas.  It is something to be embraced. One that comes to mind is their visit to a post tornado town, where they did an impromptu show at a community center.  Would the Big Band have the freedom to do such stuff?  

Just another episode in the life of our favorite dysfunfunfunctional family!

Seriously, one of the reasons this band is so messed up is because they add family dynamics (and radically differing and stubborn personalities) to the usual group dynamics. Is any of us really surprised by all this?

Ian is simply summarizing what many, including Peter Carlin, have reported over the years.  The "strangeness" is not the band, they can come and go at will, like Zappa's stable of musicians.  It's the entourage(s) each has, who don't get along or just don't bother to communicate with each other.  Some people there could be the closest buds one week, but this week be persona non grata - David Leaf, anyone?   Nor is this a fault unique to the BB; see, e.g., the Eagles, CS&N over the years, etc.

This pigheaded refusal amongst the entourages (encouraged by the main guys. to be sure) to keep the lines open has caused the current kerfluffle, which is all  it really is.  A few phone calls among the principals (or a meetup at a favorite steak house) would sort it out in an hour or two.  But that's up to them.  I would be very surprised if it came to some kind of boardroom showdown.  But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Indeed, after all these years I am now convinced that Mike's ill-advised 2004 court case could have been avoided if certain of the designated "people" would have just TALKED to each other.  There might not have been a group hug about BWPS but maybe the Wings-of-Egos "boil" could have been reduced to a low "simmer".

Or if Mike Love actually chose to stop using the "Beach Boys" name.

If the "reunion" band became an ongoing concern for the foreseeable future, they would probably be able to do more impromptu gigs and other things, since they wouldn't be tied down to any other obligations.

As for the touring being a charitable venture, I just don't think that's a driving motivation. It's a nice fringe benefit. If Mike really does feel like not playing the same small markets *every* year would lead to masses of fans forgetting about the Beach Boys, then that alone speaks to his motivation to continue to tour I suppose. It's like he thinks he'll lose something if he every lets it go, for any period of time.

Beach Boys have canceled a show in Chile because of "logistical problems"

The Beach Boys: SUSPENDED
FRIDAY 10/26/2012
21:00 Hrs.
Movistar Arena


As reported by the organization of the event is concert will be rescheduled due to "logistical problems outside the band and domestic production."
"Both the band and the production office, are working together to schedule a new date and bring back to The Beach Boys," the official statement.
The return of the entries will take place from Friday 12 October at authorized outlets Ticket Point. For those who bought their tickets and have not yet retired, the refunds will be processed automatically and the money will be reversed through the same means by which we bought.

The plot thickens..

Just for the sake of argument...my take was that the tour was managed, not from "within" but, from "without."

With every minute "plugged in" with interviews, on venue site, and off venue site, does it seem possible that they could be free to do anything "impromptu?" All these back seat drivers who would change the course of business and history, and substitute their judgment, for the band, could not possibly infer what intentions any band member might have.  

And, of course it is not a charitable outfit, but social awareness is a factor, as always.  Music or art, for that matter, has never been that far removed from the conscience of society.   It isn't fringe.

Is it unreasonable to let the band work this out, themselves?  It gives them no credit for being intelligent adults who are capable of handling their business affairs.  I think they will figure this out.  The fact that this was such a 1) successful tour and 2) a carve out of scheduling for the Touring Band, 3) and realization that there was a "change in positions," that was not anticipated.  

At the outset, it was 50 dates; then it was enlarged by about 50%.  Now, "an event," (C50)is being construed as what some people feel should be a "permanent arrangement."  And attack anyone and everyone who does not agree.  If they can compose the greatest American music of the latter 20th century, I think they can figure this out.  ;)

I don't think we're attacking anyone and everyone who does not agree. I have not seen or heard that. I've seen and heard some folks who are unhappy at seeing a great, full-lineup band that put on shows worthy of its legacy being tossed aside in favor of a value-priced outfit that plays tiny venues.

There are also many, and I'm speaking of imaginary people rather than real ones, who think Melinda is a magical unicorn.

It sure looks that way to me.  These appear to be legal relationships within the organization. The C50 Tour was billed unambiguously as an "event" of finite duration, not a change in what members were free to do.  I never got the impression that if, for example Brian was to be offered a special project, such as the Gershwin project, or one such as TLOS, that the Touring Band would be there for Brian's tour.  Or, in the alternative, if Al's Band was presenting his wonderful Postcard from California, that the Touring Band would participate. 

The concept of "value" is relative.  Is it (The Touring Band) within the reach of more people? Ya.  But, this was billed as a "limited" engagement of sorts.  I'm delighted they performed together.  But, it is not up to me to tell anyone they must work together.  That might be called indentured servitude.  It is a matter of choice.  They all have to choose to either stay as separate entities or decide if a hybrid is the new model or all go back to what I think of as a pre-1965 band model.

Do they as a group want to rethink how they deliver the music? Do they want to "dial it back?" Do they need a cast of thousands? Is there a middle ground that they can all live with?  Probably. 

Some things to keep in mind about Melinda Wilson: she sued Joe Thomas a long time ago.  Which means that either she or the people who give her advice can be difficult.  On the other hand, she did eventually make peace with Joe Thomas, or was forced to do so when Brian decided to work with him again.  The same with Al Jardine.  Brian's "people" didn't even allow him to speak to Brian during the Hawthorne monument dedication.  When Brian and Al did reconcile, Al was even allowed to tour with Brian.  Then Brian's people turned around and got rid of Al, either at Brian's people's choice or Brian's choice or both.  Now, they've made peace with Al again, for the time being, while it's convenient, at least.  I'm thinking both sides of this can be not only difficult, but flaky and hard to predict.

I'm also wondering if it is a cost issue or rather a cost sharing issue.  Brian's demands for the tour had to have driven up the cost, if he insisted that so many of his band members be included.  Then there's the issue of the tour bus that Brian has just for himself.  There could easily be a reduction of at least a couple of band members.  There are too many keyboardists, guitarists, and perhaps even the drummer can be reduced to one.  As far as Brian having his own bus, he should only get as much money for that expense as if he were riding along with the rest of the band.  Perhaps he does pay the expense himself, but if he doesn't, he really should.  Or even travel by a van or car.  It would surely be less to travel in a smaller vehicle if all they're doing is using an entire bus to carry him around, and he just can't stand to be around other people.

I suppose the "50th Anniversary" component of this was inherently of a finite duration; only one year can be the 50th. Heck, everything is a finite duration if it ever changes at any point in the future. But it certainly seems like they kept the whole thing at the very least open ended in the sense that they never stated they would never do anything together after this album and tour. Indeed, from what we're hearing, it was a disorganized but somewhat open "let's just get through this tour and then see" attitude. That certainly doesn't promise anything afterwards, but I don't think it was "unambiguous" as to the duration of the actual "reunion lineup", it actually seemed to be very ambiguous through most of the tour, with little talk from the band of what would happen afterward.  That obviously changed closer to the end of the tour.

I'm sure the bus issue was taken care of long ago. You seriously see Mike letting the cost of that for an entire tour slide and not insisting Brian give on another issue or cover the increased cost himself? That is just the sort of thing to really exert leverage on when compromising. I'm sure this wasn't left to be a burning, resentful issue paid for out of Potential Mike Love Profit(TM)

I don't think I've ever read a firm, reliable account of what happened in terms of Al not continuing with Brian's tour back circa 2007. It certainly was never presented as Al joining Brian's band, but simply sitting in for special occasions. It seems pretty obvious something beyond the "Al is going to stay home and focus on his album" line was going on, but I still haven't heard much on this beyond vague allusions to costs, which always made it sound like Al technically chose to depart because there weren't funds to pay him. This could obviously be construed as the organization forcing Al out, but I never heard any bitter words from Brian or Al about each other after that.

I think Melinda should step back from being Brian's business representative or whatever it is she does.  Being his wife, I think it makes her a little too overprotective and personal.  I mean, obviously she should have a say but there are times when it seems like she's a little too involved.

Thatʻs pretty much what I heard.  To Brian, Al was sitting in.  To Al, he was helping put people in the seats but wasnʻt getting paid. Plus he was acting like the co-star around the band, being pissy (cause he wasnʻt getting $). Not sure who initiated his departure but he "Departed to finish his solo album".  Good thing, it took him long enough.  If he had stayed out with Brian, sucker would still be in the works.

My suspicion is that Brian did not want Al there after a certain point. Remember the business with the fainting spell onstage? Has Brian ever done anything remotely like that before or since? Nope. Al was out right after that.

Brian has ways of making people listen to him when he needs to.

That being said, I don't think they necessarily parted on the worst of terms or anything ... just that it was an experiment that didn't work out.


Who else would do it? Who else would want to do it?

I dunno how he was acting around the band, though I've never heard any accounts of him acting negatively. I can say, having seen two shows with Brian and Al in 2007, one the PS tour and one a regular show, that Al acted like anything but the co-star. He was barely given any leads (Then I Kissed Her, Cal Saga, Rhonda, bits of Sloop, WIBN, and I Know There's An Answer, that's about it), and took the side of the stage shaking a tambourine while Scott Bennett took his spot to play guitar on "Marcella", and did all of this looking happy, like he was having fun.

As for the fainting spell also mentioned, I was at that show, and I don't think it was as nefarious as some have suggested. More importantly, as was later revealed, it was the day before that show, back in Monterey recording at Al's studio, that the "decision" was made to not have Al on the European tour that was following. So he played the "fainting show" after they all already knew Al wasn't joining on the tour, and Al wasn't even scheduled or billed to be at that show, so if they had wanted Al out, he wouldn't have even been at that show.

For what it's worth, my two cents about this whole thing is that it comes down to "control." Since 1999, Mike has been in total control of "The Beach Boys" without anyone to answer to. He was obviously willing to cede that control temporarily for the 50th anniversary tour. However, in relinquishing that control, he was forced to accept things that he hasn't had to in nearly 15 years. For example, it is obvious that someone on Brian's side put a very quick stop to the Stamos appearances early in the tour. As absurd as many of us think Stamos is, in Mike's vision of the BB's, he is a regular part of the act. In addition, from his own statements, it is obvious that Mike wanted a smaller band. However, Brian wanted a bigger band, so they toured with a bigger band. Furthermore, despite the fact that Mike is supposedly in charge of the set list, if Brian wanted a song in, it went in. The reason that many of us side with Brian is because many of his decisions are more "artistic" and do improve the music. No Stamos, a bigger band, some deep cuts, are all things that enhance the music, and enhanced the reunion tour, but to Mike, they don't match his vision of what The Beach Boys in 2012 are all about.

Finally, I do think that Mike fears, with good reason, that Brian could easily change his mind at anytime about wanting to be a Beach Boy. Just because he is into today, this week, this month, doesn't mean it will be that way in the future. If Mike were to dismantle his version of the BB's, letting all the musicians go into to other jobs and disband the whole operation, what happens if Brian decides in six months, a year, that he no longer wants to be a Beach Boy? I mean, in 2011, Brian said he didn't want to tour with the band again, and now he doesn't want to stop. I don't think it is unreasonable for Mike, having known Brian for his entire life, to fear placing his future livelihood at the whims of Brian Wilson.    

I got this from a very inside source.  Not that Al acted like a co-star onstage, but around the band/crew offstage. He rubbed people the wrong way.  And that he wanted MORE solo spots, better lighting on him, that kind of stuff.  This is just what I was told.  Sounds a lot like this present mess.  Brian and Mike not communicating directly.  Back then, Brian and Al not communicating directly.

I have to think this is true. I would not make commitments based on Brian's stated desires [or Al's] until I had it in writing. This explains why Mike
is not changing any plans on just the shenanigans of Brian and Al. If Brian and Al are serious all they have to do get on the phone and call a meeting. Apparently they haven't done that and so Mike has no reason to change anything. Mike hasn't ruled anything out.

Didn't Al mention something about not feeling comfortable around Brian's people?  Wasn't there some incident where, in the middle of a live performance, Brian just got up from his keyboard and proceeded to lie down on the stage?  And this rubbed Al the wrong way?  Could have sworn this was mentioned here not that long ago.

Both Brian and Mike have referenced getting more offers and Mike not wanting to do them. I think offers from promoters, with Brian and Al presumably ready and willing to do additional shows, is far from some sort of shaky "shenanigans." I obviously can't say for sure that they had "a meeting", but sounds like they were all made aware of additional show offers, and Brian and Al wanted to do it while Mike didn't. It certainly sounds like Brian and Al were ready to put it in "writing" to do those additional shows.

I don't understand all of these excuses for why Mike doesn't want to do more reunion shows. Mike's own statement largely states that he simply doesn't want to do more of those shows at this time. Even Mike isn't claiming it's due to Brian being shaky or Brian or Al being flakey.

This is the "fainting" incident we were referring to, June 12, 2007 in Saratoga, CA. It happened apparently after it had already been decided that Al wasn't going on the European tour that was to follow. The only thing I've heard in terms of Al discussing the incident afterwards was Jon Stebbins' referencing talking to Al about it. I don't think we got any direct quotes, but Al expressed concern over the situation. But it seemed that it was more about concern about Brian, perhaps concern about whether or how much he should be out playing live gigs.

Actually, I believe this may have been referenced directly in Jon Stebbins' excellent "Beach Boys FAQ."

I have heard this as well.

Imagine a parallel universe, where Brian is represented by Allen Klein.  >:D
Talk about good cop / bad cop.

Eh?

I just think there's no real benefit for Al to go out with Brian or for Brian to have Al go out with him. It's still not "the Beach Boys" and Brian's not going sell that many more tickets to make it worth it to pay Al more, especially if the tours already weren't making money.

Al obviously won't get the spotlight with Brian around, and he's not going to get the camaraderie of being around the whole group. It just makes more sense for Mike/Bruce, Brian, Al and David to tour and play separately if there's not going to be one whole Beach Boys. Brian Wilson featuring Al Jardine and David Marks doesn't exactly have a real ring to it.

One of the interviews during the reunion tour said that Al and David were casually talking about doing an acoustic tour together.  Now, that I would like to see.  It also makes me believe they weren't seriously thinking the reunion tour would continue much more than what it did, or they wouldn't have been talking about what to do after the tour was over. 

Or that the full band reunion would not be a 365-day-a-year thing, and that they would have some downtime to do solo acoustic shows. You know, the way people in non-crazy bands do.

there are only two members of Mike's band that weren't part of the reunion band or its touring entourage, and one of them is Mike's son. so I don't think this is an issue.

It's a very simple scenario: essentially, Alan invited himself on that tour, then proceeded to get himself uninvited. Wouldn't say it's common knowledge, but enough folk here are aware of the detail.

I don't know about Bruce, but I had a newspaper article years ago, can't remember if it was before the 92 Oz tour or 99 tour where Mike said he was addicted to the adulation he gets when on stage regardless of when or where. Would be one reason he can't stay home and mow the lawns. The plants don't laugh and cheer at his routine

This is a bit off-topic, but when was the last year any these guys actually had to go on tour (or do anything) to feed their families? I mean, they are the Beach Boys, after all. My guess is that they could have called it a day after Endless Summer, and still live nicely on royalties for the rest of their lives. Mike and Brian, at least.

No doubt this is true but I feel I should say something. Though I heard Al can occasionally be difficult (like all of us), I have rarely talked to a nicer person.

From Al's site yesterday:
http://www.aljardine.com/news.html

And a new CBS article, with extra-quotes from Brian:
http://www.cbs3springfield.com/story/19783557/beach-boys-wilson-band-dustup-bummed-me-out

THANK YOU FROM AL JARDINE

I want to thank all of the fans who came out to see us on our 50th Anniversary Reunion Tour. It was a great pleasure and honor to perform with my band mates again after all these years! As Mike Love was often heard saying, "the whole is bigger than the sum of its parts." I couldn't agree more. Standing alongside the architect of the music, Brian Wilson, he told me "this is the best group I have ever worked with," referring to the back up band behind us. I was thrilled to play my role in this extraordinary musical experience! Sometimes you have to be good. And sometimes you have to be good and lucky. We got lucky this year with good voice and health and had the best crew and managerial staff, a band could ask for. I hope we can do it again sometime soon for those of you who missed us first time 'round.

In the meantime, 'see you on the radio'   --Al Jardine, Oct 2012

Nice message from Al, pretty much sums up all out thoughts and hopes

BTW: the double appearance of the word 'official' in the threat title makes me chuckle every time. It's really droll - as if something needs urgently to be stressed and re-confirmed to make sure.

It also generates the impression that there are lots of unofficial (clandestine?) threads and posts flying around here.

Is that so?  :o

Then I must make a call to the wife and managers.

That is indeed a very good message. It`s a shame that Al`s Facebook page makes him look a bit desperate as whoever is running it has made some strange posts. This is full of class though.

For your consideration:

June 26th - in a Rolling Stone article, Mike announces he's booked post-C50 dates with the BRI-sanctioned lineup. Brian comments "I wasn't aware that Mike had some shows in South America. News to me."

September 23rd - at the opening of the BB exhibit at the Grammy Museum, Mike issues a press release underlining the composition of the band touring in October. Brian expresses surprise (at something he knew about and commented on three months previously), stating "I'm disappointed and can't understand why he doesn't want to tour with Al, David and me. We are out here having so much fun. After all, we are the real Beach Boys."

October 5th - Mike sends a letter to the LA Times explaining that, amongst other things, he issued the original press release at the request of Brian's representative.

October 7th - also in the LA Times, Brian responds to Mike's explanation, stating that "my attorney merely suggested to Mike's attorney that a possible press release in those markets might be appropriate to stop the confusion, which was in no one's best interest"... and also "I'm disappointed that Mike would now say that the release was done at the request of my representative".

Someone care to explain to me exactly how Mike's emerged from this as the bad guy when he did not only exactly what Brian's representative requested, but also something Brian had been aware of for three months ?

Because, even though Mike appears to have done the right thing in this context, we all want the reunion to continue and this is really depressing?

It's feelings vs. realism and facts. The tour was extremely successful and well-received, and prolonged also. I can understand your desires very well therefore. But I can't find no fault with Mike having read AGD's account. It's not that Mike is deliberately spoiling our fun and happiness. He complied with various ad hoc changes in the tour. And he wants to honour obligations he made long months ago, when it wasn't really certain that the tour would go the way it did.

We had a damn good thing, and want to hold on to that. Makes sense. But did Mike play mean? No - I think his timing may have been imperfect, at one or two occasions. That's all.

For me, the funniest thing about all this nonsense - and it is luminous nonsense - is the Blooies who, having previously stated loudly they didn't want their Brian anywhere near the evil they perceive to be Mike Love, are now equally vociferous that they want exactly this to happen for the immediate and long-term future. You just couldn't make it up, could you ?  ;D

Really, that's somehow supposed to be funny or ironic? Well, whatever gets you through the night.

Try hypocritical.

Right on the money, Andrew.

Your tribal obsession with people with whom you don't even bother to engage is unhealthy. If you're so concerned about the posters on Brian's site, reason with them; if there's no reasoning with them, accept it and move on. Whatever you do, please spare us your tantrums about how unfair it all is.

We get it Andrew. You're friends with Bruce and you are taking their side, because you want your "inside source" still. It's cool.

Get this: We are unhappy with Mike because he doesn't want to continue the group with Brian and Al. Nobody cares about his little half-assed shows!

lots of people do

You guys are taking this thread to locked territory again..

Who has the small dick in this debate?  :police:

I have 3.

Brian and Mike are leading you all on, they are actually working on something for the new album: "Amir Love Vs Lamont Wilson"..  :lol

Trying to reason with most Blooies - there are, or were, some nice folk over there, knowledgeable too - about Mike is about as productive as debating evolution with a Fundamentalist south of the Mason-Dixon Line, and for many of the same reasons. I spent maybe 13 years there, trying to reason with them and infuse a little accurate history, but when the feeding frenzy erupted over the "BW fired" non-story (manna from heaven for the Love haters), I said the hell with this, or something like that, and deleted my account, because frankly it was like trying to teach advanced relativity to a troupe of baboons. About as noisy, too.

Not all people who are not happy with Mike's choice are blooies.

Yeah, we just have a heart

Mike - dammed if he does, dammed if he doesn't. If Brian really wants them to all continue working together as The Beach Boys then he needs to call Mike and arrange to meet him and discuss options one on one. No managers, no wives and no lawyers - just the two guys who founded the band all those years ago making up their own minds between them. Is that really so hard to do Brian? Maybe for once you shouldn't just sit back and let Melinda decide what's best for you. If you want it to carry on so bad then fight for it.

You've one up on the Brianistas...they don't have brains.

Nothing to do with my contact with Bruce, rather a lot to do with considering the current farrago dispassionately and ignoring all the media assumptions. Everyone agreed to do 50 shows, then agreed to do 20-odd more. Then Brian & Alan decide they want to carry on, and of course that makes Mike - who also agreed to the extension - the Bad Guy. Tell me, if it was Mike wanting to carry on and Brian sticking to the mutually agreed and contracted gameplan, would there be such a fuss ?  That's a rhetorical question, BTW: we all know the answer to that one.

No. But we'd still be bummed that after a great year the group wouldn't be sticking together. It is also different because Mike wants to continue as "The Beach Boys" without the creator of The Beach Boys greatest works. If Brian decided he didn't wanna work with Mike, and then went out on tour as "The Beach Boys" that would be just as lame.

That is fair-minded, but the people Andrew is speaking of would be absolutely fine with it. They would claim that the new "Beach Boys" have better voices than the original group as well, something that has already been said many times over the years regarding Brian's touring group.

All Mike is doing is what he's been doing since summer 1998 - touring as "The Beach Boys" with the blessing of the BRI voting members. Oh, and earning said voting members (even the one who voted against him) a not inconsiderable sum each year.

2012 Brian & Al>1998 Brian and Al on BBs matters.

So Andrew -- just to be clear. You believe that Brian Wilson continuing to tour and record as a Beach Boy is a bad idea?

A lot of things have changed, haven't they? And they ain't just the Brianistas.


I think that this is Brian fighting for it. A lot more desire expressed from him in the last few weeks than I've heard from him for a few years. As for the no wives or lawyers nonsense -- it would be an exceptionally dumb musician who would allow such a deal to be worked out without adequate representation.


So it's all about money, in the end, then? And it's certainly not like MSG gigs would make Mike and everyone else money, would they? Nope, only Biloxi casinos have the fat paydays, apparently.

I think the tour and the album was a classic case of lightening caught in a bottle: to try and repeat it again next year without the impetus of the 50th anniversary could very well be a huge mistake. I never expected the shows to be this good or the album to be anything like as great as it is. Go out on a high. Leave them wanting more. Preserve the legend.

However, this being The Beach Boys, the likelihood of them trying to repeat an unrepeatable triumph is pretty high.

Hence the reason they should give it a break IMO.

That or sign up with Mike for smaller gigs with smaller pay checks, and I can't see that happening anytime soon.

we need to end this thread and wait to set up a new one called: "news on the band's status post Mike's and Brian's LA Times articles" (or a more laconic presentation of that eventuality).

I suggest: stop spinning our wheels and, rather, wait for the coming news of resolution.....

I don't think is neccesarily precise, though. Clearly, Brian (or his "camp") does not feel that what they "suggested" (which may or may not be different from "asked", not that it really matters) about a press release from Mike is what they ended up with. It sounds like they wanted some low-key, locally-targeted press releases to make sure the folks in Biloxi weren't expecting Brian, Al, and David to show up. Mike's statement was apparently targeted at all media everywhere (yes, I know even locally targeted press releases can hit the net instantaneously), and more importantly, did not simply discuss the "October show", but indicated that his lineup was the lineup going forward, and that we would see more bookings in the future from this band.

I wish I could better target where this disconnect is happening where some fans are stuck on the same loop of "it was mutually agreed upon, it was a set amount of tour dates, Mike had to do the October dates, it's all happening they way they agreed it would."

A big part of this is really simple. Right now, some BB fans would like to see more of the great reunion shows. Right now, Mike is the one apparently keeping that from happening, and adding insult to injury by continuing to use the name for his band as he has in the past. Lack of more reunion activities is what some are bummed about, simple as that.

And why again are we talking about people on another board? That people on some other board are being unreasonable has nothing to do with the discussions taking place here. People being weird on the blueboard doesn't change the fact that Mike is keeping more reunion shows from happening.

But this is true. Brian and Al want to do more shows. Mike doesn't. That DOES make Mike the bad guy in this scenario, because he's putting the breaks on it at this moment in time.

As for if the situation was reversed, I can't speak to anybody else's opinion (or the weird "blue board" straw man that keeps getting brought up), but I would be JUST as bummed if Brian was saying no to more reunion shows in the face of everybody else wanting to do it. Even then it probably wouldn't be the same scenario, because of course Brian would then be turning around to do SOLO shows, not "Beach Boys" shows.

B-b-b-but, that's supposed to be devastating logic that makes you paralyzed and exposed as a rank Brianista! Anything Mike does can be defended by saying, "Well, if Brian did it I bet you would defend it!" This also accomplishes the neat trick of dodging the issue and putting you on the defensive.

Look for Paul Ryan to pull this move tonight with Biden. 40 million people are going to hear the word "Brianista" tonight. I'm looking forward to Biden's stirring, Joe Lunchpailesque defense of "Love You."

I for one find this argument to fall under the logical fallacy of "appeal to tradition/argumentum ad antiquitatem." This "Mike's been doing it this way for 14 years" business is ridiculous. Mike himself tried to use this reasoning in his first press release, going to great pains to state that this is the lineup he's been using since Carl died. So what? Things have changed. When we didn't know there was any ability to compose a greater "Beach Boys" touring band, then Mike using the name for his show was accepted (or at least tolerated), but some fans feel differently now.

The major part of Brian's vocal fanbase carries far more weight then the more common-sense oriented folks here. So a discussion of that viewpoint should factor in. If The Beach Boys never work together again, that virulent group of people are partly to blame, though they shouldn't, because The Beach Boys should take no notice whatsoever of what anyone thinks, other than those in the group itself. Even the handlers and managers should be tossed aside.

If the fanbase didn't know that ability even existed, what does that say about their faith?

This is surely why it's easier for some to dismiss those who are upset with Mike stalling more reunion activities. If you actively WANT the reunion to disband and go away forever, then it's easy to start with the "sheesh, you KNEW it was going to go back to Mike and Bruce" stuff.

I again can only reiterate that while I can understand a sort of resigned "well, it was good while it lasted and this is what was probably going to happen anyway" attitude from a fan, I just don't get actively wishing against more of those amazing shows we saw this summer. 61 songs on a single night with FIVE Beach Boys on stage. That's worth attempting to continue, even if it did fall flat on its face (though I see no reason why it would).

The Beach Boys' legacy will not change based on the reunion continuing in 2013 and maybe not living up to some arbitrary expectations.

Hey, Ontor Pertwat.  

What the hell's wrong with being a Brianista.  You say that like it's a bad thing - like he's revealing that he's a Nazi or somethin'.

By this logic, people who are Mike's fans should therefore be credited if we end up with peace in the Middle East.

Ooo, I see what you did there. Clever.

Yeah, apparently it's an insult! Tho not as much as twat...

I don't even think about how much "faith" fans have in the BB's. It makes no difference to me. Results are what matter. The reunion tour was awesome, and a fan that "knew it all along" and a fan that "never thought it could happen" can agree on that, so our faith or skepticism beforehand doesn't matter.

(nervously kicks Al Jardine prayer beads under desk and whistles innocently)

Yeah, I have to admit I just want more shows. I even moved to LA last year so feel like if they continue, I've got a nice shot at seeing slightly more shows than back east. So it's purely selfishness at witnessing such fine entertainment and wanting it to continue... which I admit, didn't think I would feel by this point. When I first heard about it, it sure seemed like a bad idea but they kinda proved me wrong. So if it can change for a dopey fan, I can see why it could change for some of the BBs...

Mike and Bruce alone calling themselves the Beach Boys is a huge mistake.
They just flat out sound better together.
If anything, those two doing that alone, is hurting their legacy.

This is precisely where I part ways with Andrew's logic as well. If the triumph is never to be repeated, then surely it destroys the rationale for further Mike and Bruce shows under TBB banner, yes?

And if it doesn't, then where's the harm in pushing for a larger, more representative group? I don't think anyone would necessarily expect the exuberance of this summer to continue, but I could sure go for hearing Al and Dave in the lineup, with Brian dropping by when he can. Even without the 50 backing band members!

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Mike and Bruce are great in their own right, but they hadn't wrote a darn thing for like 20 years. As soon as Brian came back, stuff got done. Amazing stuff. Just give the guy his rights back. Win-win for everyone!

You know, this same damn argument has been going on since Mike aquired the Beach Boys name after Al was fired after Carl died in '98.

Seems like it took the reunion this year for you to realize the Mike & Bruce show ain't like the REAL Beach Boys and that the there's nothing like the original members on tour. Many of you think the M & B band are good (they are) but pass off the fact that the Mike & Bruce band consists of Mike's kid and ex Papa-Do Run Run members (and other Beach Boys knock-off bands) and have finally concluded the facts after seeing the originals perform live and are giving preferential treatment where it's due.

Congratulations.

I think you guys are just plain giving Andrew too much credit. He is only arguing in defense of the Love/Johnston scheme because he's buddies with Bruce. There really isn't any rationale beyond that. Just like during a divorce, usually the husbands' friends agree with the husband, and the wives friends agree with the wife. That's why Andrew is so behind ending this thing. It's obvious.

I know I'm the biggest Mike apologist ever, blah blah, but I really wish he's just either give up the name or have it taken away from him.....

It was fine (and even commendable) for Mike and Bruce to be out there carrying the torch when a reunited group wasn't even a possibility and Brian was off saying he couldn't stand Mike Love and all that. But now that the reunited "50 Th" group wants to keep going: it just seems pathetic for the Mike/Bruce show to keep rolling BEYOND whatever already booked gigs there are....... I understand where Mike's head might be, but if it really is about keeping the name alive and the fans, there's only one logical way to go....

I also wouldn't want to go see Brian/Al/Dave to go out as "The Beach Boys" either.

That!

Will be interesting to see what happens when the rights are next up for renewal.

I have to admit, without trying to take sides too much, that after seeing "The Beach Boys" perform as one group and hearing their new recordings in 2012, it might be hard to go back to the way it was with the fractured groups each doing their own thing. I suppose that is the pitfall of having an overwhelmingly successful reunion tour and album with everyone available on board and participating to create that beautiful "whole", then having to go separate ways.

When are the rights up for renewal, BTW??  :violin

Aside from insulting all those who agree with me off their own bat - which is all of them - if you truly believe what you've written then you're an even bigger fool than I've always assumed you are.  ;D

BTW, I'm in complete agreement with the view that The Beach Boys (2012) are something better than Mike's, Brian's or Alan's bands. I just can't see a hypothetical BB (2013) sustaining, or even approaching, such heights.

Andrew merely pointed out inconsistencies.  It did not impress me that there was favoritism or a position at all.  I agree with this.  

But, there is likely to be some amelioration and strategy to find a hybrid formula that will allow for whole group involvement as well as non-whole group.  I find it pretty disrespectful to disregard the work and time invested by the
Touring Band who "played by the rules" to the benefit of all.  

Everyone grew by leaps and bounds; Brian, with all this really fabulous work, Al, with his album, and Mike, who kept it all going, since the loss of Carl.    

It isn't a fan decision.  It is a band decision, ultimately, with all the facts before them.   This is not a time for attack, I don't think but, to step back and assess the situation and find their own bearings.  I bet they will.  

This is rapidly turning into one of those endless circular political debates; they commence with well worded, well researched observations and then degenerate into 'you're a NAZI' and 'you're a Libtard' etc., etc., etc...

And the fact that Andrew is quick to tar and feather anyone who doesn't share his myopic pro-M&B opinion as a 'Blooey' or a 'Brianista'...well, I've lost a lot of respect for you Andy. A lifetime of research into the band doesn't entitle you to lord over us great unwashed Brianistas.

To all you unrepentant Mike supporters, hang in there. Soon the traveling donkey show will come to your town and you can get all jiggy wit' it. As for me, I'll stay home and remember it how it was (and should be).  

I don't think most unrepentant Mike supporters WANT the Mike/Bruce show to come to their town! You don't have to hate Mike with a passion in order to scratch your head at his seeming determination to keep the economy class "Beach Boys" rolling......

In fact no one HAS to hate Mike with a passion either..... It's so easy to just love the Beach Boys warts n all.

Stop being so damn reasonable, Erik! Yeah, I do love 'em all. I hope they manage to work it out for next year, I want to spring for better seats at the Bowl!

You know, this will be quickly ridiculed in some quarters I know, but should M&B visit the Pacific NW I'm really considering picketing the show. I picketed a Browns game during the '87 NFL strike (in support of the striking players) and while I got lots of abuse from arriving fans I also received a lot of support from the NBC network union members.

A simple sign - "Tonight's show is bullshit. This is not the Beach Boys"

It appeals to my inner martyr. Might just do it.

The thing is, if you had a fuller band -- but operating at half the intensity of this summer's shows -- it would (to me) be twice as preferable as going back to the status quo.


I was wondering who would be the first to suggest that. If you could get sizable groups doing the picketing, think of the news stories!

I think you'll find it does. Check the small print: paragraph 6, section 3, clause vii.  :)

If you do so, PLEASE swing by and pick up OSD on your way and hand him a megaphone!!!!

And it was a dark, lonely era in '87. Quite difficult to organize people to storm the Bastille. Nowadays with social media, it would almost be toooo easy!  >:D

Right arm, Doo Dah.

I saw a guy on a street corner with a big 'ol picket sign yesterday that read, "Obama kills babys". I felt like pulling over and kicking his ass! I really did.

So that gives me an idea. Next time the Mike and Bruce show comes to the Bay Area, I'm gonna stand outside the venue with a sign that reads, "Mike Love Kills Beach Boys".

Libtard Mike (and effing proud of it!)

Mike's band has one ex-Papa Doo Run Run member -- Randell. Brian's has one *current* Papa Doo member -- Jeff. None of the other band members are from Beach Boys knock-off bands.

By that rationale, Mike and Bruce should do the same, hang it up..  Continuing to tour as the Beach Boys, with Stamos, tarnishes the legacy and stains the carpet! Now, it is not going out on a high.
That said, yeah, they all agreed ahead of time to do xy&z, knowing Mike and Bruce were going to carry on.

If all of the picketers were to show up wearing gold turbans, flowing white robes, and put on fake long beards circa 1969, there might be some media interest.

I would join that picket line. Need to take part in a protest sometime.

Isn't there footage of Al in one of the Do It Again little vids saying "We've reunited for this one last time"?

Damn these guys are confusing.

As word of the protest reaches the M&B trailer, Bruce angrily slams down his third Pacifico and rises to his feet.

"We've got to do something Mike - we can't let these Libtard Brianistas f*** with the formula!"

To which Mike remains silent, deep in the throes of a TM mantra...'serenity now...serenity now...serenity now...'

Erik - "unrepentant" would be me in the late 60's and 70's when they fell out of popular favor. A Beach Boys fan.  

And, I'm greedy; I'll go see them all.  It is not economy class.  Bigger is not necessarily better.  They need to find their formula tha works.  Pun intended.   ;)

....then loads his shotgun.

How about a "Bruce Kills Socialists" sign!!!!!?

Then Mike finds the answer, Singing Student Demonstration Time with new lyrics!

I'd prefer Bruce having "This machine kills socialists" scrawled on his synth.

Are you the Andy that Doo Dah is talking about?  I know Zirelli from Papa Doo Run Run and know where the members have gone. I'm from their neck of the woods. I think a couple of other members are Bruce & Mike alumnus. The members of the Mike & Bruce band are hacks!

*Cringes and hides behind the Hammond B3*

Yes!  :lol

:lol, Can we also have Al Jardine, Bob Dylan, and David Crosby  there singing "Blowin in the wind"?

I don't know about Bob and David, but Al isn't doing anything. Com'on down Al. We'll sing some Weavers
tunes. It'll be outtasight.

No, Doo Dah was talking to Andrew Doe.

There's also a difference between "Papa Doo Run Run contains ex-members of Mike & Bruce's band" and "Mike & Bruce's band is made up of ex-members of Papa Doo Run Run".

As for Mike & Bruce's band being hacks, pretty much everyone who saw the reunion tour was amazed at how good Scott Totten and John Cowsill were. Randell Kirsch is about as talented as Jeff Foskett, and while Tim Bonhomme never gets a chance to shine (his parts are mostly simple and he has no lead vocals) he plays the parts perfectly competently. Whether you like Mike & Bruce touring as the Beach Boys or not, there's no reason to disparage the abilities of the people in their band.

To quote Mr. Zimmerman, "I don't believe you." ;)

Brian's been preventing Beach Boys' reunions for several years now, and all I've ever read was, "You go, guy...." There have been pages and pages and pages of threads explaining why Brian SHOULDN'T get back together with The Beach Boys or any band that includes Mike Love.

But, now people are saying that things have changed, that things are different now. Really? Things are different now? I have read a lot of posts lately that are saying differently, that things in The Beach Boys are still the SAME, same as always, that things WILL NEVER CHANGE. So, what is it? A diiferent Beach Boys or the same old Beach Boys?

Maybe somebody knows more about the real Brian Wilson than we do, but doesn't want to come out and say it. Might be construed as cruel. However, I do think things are different for Melinda now. She's always looking for ways to sustain Brian's "career"; she came out and said as much when she married him. Andy Paley, The Wondermints, Joe Thomas, Pet Sounds, SMiLE, Christmas music, Sweet Insanity, George Gershwin, Walt Disney, and Joe Thomas again. But, now, guess who came along? Who'd of thunk it? Boy, did that get Melinda's attention. And the light bulb goes on again!

Could somebody photoshop this?

I know. And I'm not disparaging their abilities at all.  I guess I was borrowing the term "hack" from a post I read on this board previously. It's like calling someone that isn't Union a "Scab".  These guys are very competent; all of them. Or they wouldn't be in a high profile band. Totten's been fantastic on and off the road directing and it's tough to beat Cowsill - he's been great! Comparing Foskett to Kirsch - they both sing mean falsettos (or high parts) and I've only seen Randell on bass, so I can't compare their guitar playing abilities.  I remember both of them playing with Papa, even Foskett before he joined The Beach Boys.

And then there are the guys in Brian's band.....

Keep finding myself agreeing with your posts - a little cool-headed appreciation of the music in a morass of mud-slinging! 8)

I don't understand why people keep overlooking the fact that Brian voted for Mike to get the naming rights in the first place.  He also gave public statements in support of Mike against Al when the lawsuits were going.  If Brian hadn't have done that, none of this would be happening now.  I don't blame Mike for wanting to keep touring with his own outfit, since Brian gave him permission to years ago.  If Brian had any thought of wanting to reunite, he either shouldn't have voted for Mike or at least he should have put an expiration date on that license so they could revisit the issue every few years.

I get tired of the attacks on Mike not because I particularly like Mike all that much.  I've never even seen his band.  But I do get tired of the ugliness of a small segment of the fan base that results in things like his youngest daughter requiring a security detail at one point due to her getting death threats.  When someone posted her formspring account, I couldn't get the link to work on my computer, so I Googled her name and came across an interview she gave when she was a freshman in high school, to her high school newspaper, talking about the threats made against her life.  There is a small sub-segment of fandom that borders on a Mark David Chapman element. 

That's creepy and all but, um, aren't you the one searching out High school kid interviews in High School newspapers?

I kid. Bit of a straw man to conflate that with the mostly fairly well reasoned and not stalkery arguments here. Ok, except for maybe that one guy.

I don't blame any celebrity for being scared sh*tless of their fans. We're weird people.

I'm not even going to go there, even though you did.  It was near the top of the search results, it had her name on it, and I didn't know until I read it that it was a high school interview.  Someone here posted a link first.

BTW, why did you move all the way across country to be closer to the Beach Boys?  I never moved anywhere to be near them. 

Don't be silly. I moved here because of work and since I lived here for a spell in 2001-2 and daydreamed of coming back ever since. Plus, I make films and there's something called the film industry here. That was really sweet of you to say, tho. Thanks!

Also I have a shrine to Al Jardine in my hall closet, so can you imagine my face when I discovered he doesn't actually live here? I am a crap stalker. I'll have to stick to calling him incessantly and hanging up after whispering the words "Loop de loop flip flop."

Wow, page 17. It's about time for a disgruntled band member to gripe to a webzine or something to add more fuel.

Thanks, and I like your quote about "drifting a bit, before you set your sails." Words of wisdom.

It is so frustrating to finally see all this love and appreciation for this amazing music to become "factionalized" and lose sight of the amazing forest of music we have. 

We sure could have used that kind of support in those lean years. 

Thanks again, for your kind words.   :kiss

Geez. This is heartwarming. Can I have a kiss too?

I'd like one too

(http://net.onextrapixel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/the-total-is-greater-than-the-sum-of-the-parts.jpg)

 :kiss

 :kiss

 :grouphug

Lay that "3" down sideways and whatia got?  ;D

Hey, no kissing on the lips!

Thanks a lot.   Now I don't feel like a third wheel anymore.....   :)

Dunno how any of us would know wheter we should believe each other about much of anything here. Again, the scenario with Brian wouldn't have been the same (he would continue solo, not calling his band the BB's), but I most certainly would be bummed about anybody putting the breaks on this reunion. If all of them, or the majority of them, would have all come away saying they were done with it, it still would have been a bummer, but perhaps a bit easier to not get as bummed about.

I for one have never cheered Brian's shunning the other BB's or the idea of reuniting. The thing is, since Brian has been touring at least, these guys were never all on the same page. I used to recall, for instance, that say in something like 2003, Mike would give an interview and still get all romantic about the idea of working with Brian again, at least Mike's idea of what working with Brian again would be. But Mike would barely or never even mention Al. I recall interviews where he would be asked about a reunion, and he would specifically say that he wanted to work with Brian. I don't think Mike was ready for a full-blown reunion ten years ago either. Al was all disgruntled back then too, I don't think he would have gone for it.

The whole idea of these guys all being on the exact same page is pretty new, so it's that aspect of it that makes Mike the apparent bigger bad guy in this scenario. Brian being sour on the BB's in 1999 or something wasn't the one thing keeping an otherwise ready-to-go reunited BB's from going back out on the road. What Mike is doing now is much closer to that.

As far what has "changed", that is simple. We now KNOW that a reunited BB's can be awesome. We didn't have confirmation of that until April 2012. That's what changed.

Very true, it is confusing. That statement from Al is somewhat ambiguous. I am truly not trying to stretch the comments too much, but I think the idea was that this was the final time they would put it back together, but the length of the reunion was up in the air.

I think this is really stretching it. How would Brian, in 1998 or 1999, know that in 2011 he would finally feel like reuniting?

That being said, yes, Brian definitely has to live with his decision to vote for Mike to have the license. I think Brian's reasoning for allowing Mike to have the license are pretty passive; he never wanted to use the name, so it was probably an easy decision for him to make.

Now, assuming Mike didn't somehow wrestle a unrevokable license, we will indeed find out if they want to examine Mike's license again and make any alternate decisions. I highly doubt it, again because especially once the reunion is clearly not salvageable, they will all go back to being relatively passive about it; resigned to it.

I think some are feeling that, A) It's not out of the question that they could sustain such heights, and more importantly, B) Why does it have to reach or surprass 2012 to still be really good?

I also fail to see how Mike and Bruce going out under the same name is okay if the idea here is to go out on a high note. That can't happen when a 2/5 Beach Boys lineup resumes touring under the same name 48 hours after your ideal "high note" of the end of the tour.

Sorry but if Mike doesn`t want to tour with the other guys then that in itself doesn`t make him a bad guy at all. Disappointing maybe but he has a right to not do things that he doesn`t want to do. For example, all of the Monty Python guys at one point agreed to a reunion but Michael Palin was the one who refused. That didn`t and doesn`t make him a bad guy.

Now because Mike wants to continue going out as `The Beach Boys` that does complicate the issue. But for you to suggest that the last 14 years is irrelevant is lunacy. It`s evident that all of the band members knew the score from the start. They would go out for one final time to celebrate the 50th anniversary (Al`s comment cannot seriously be interpreted in any other way) and then things would revert to normal. Everybody, and certainly the members of BRI, knew about the M&B gigs from the beginning. Now if Mike had thought that the reunion would put an end to his other touring forever then I don`t think there is any way he would have agreed to it and certainly not in the way that it was done. Compromise was made by both Brian`s and Mike`s people for this tour but 90% of it was by Mike`s. That was doubtless because it was seen as a one time only thing.

I think the biggest issue with the reunited BBs was always going to be personal stuff between the band members or their management. We now know that there are still issues there and we were lucky that they got through the tour without it becoming detrimental. If it were to end now then it wouldn`t be the worst thing.

I think because they go out under the radar it is a very different thing. Same name but different expectations.

I guess we can just really parse things here. I mentioned the "apparent bad guy", because I know some people don't mind that he's stopping more reunion activities. If one is bummed about that, Mike is the "bad guy" in the most generic sense of the term, meaning he's the cause of what some people are unhappy about.

I also disagree about the band "knowing the score" from the outset. It seems pretty obvious that they didn't, at least not all of them. Why that is and how ridiculous that may be is a seperate discussion. But the fact that they added shows does indicate that the default plan for after the booked reunion shows was able to be changed.

The few semi-"insider" comments we've heard from Howie Edelson and Jon Stebbins suggest that they did not all "know the score." Can I go so far as to say that Brian and/or Al were being too optimistic about more reunion stuff, and Mike kind of stayed silent or vague about his plans even though he knew they would want to continue and he didn't? We don't have enough even circumstantial evidence to assert that theory I suppose, but clearly they were not all on the same page. For that, they are probably all to blame.

This is definitely where it does indeed quickly devolve into the same debates fans had circa 1998/99. How much is using the BB name about the principle of it, how much is about the spirit of the music/group, and how much is about the functionality of it? Fans clearly differ on these and other similar points.

Going out with a different reunion lineup and calling it "The Beach Boys" clearly caused Mike a few hiccups in going back to using the name. That tells me the problem isn't just "perception" from fans or observers, but also a flaw in the logic that tells him using the same name isn't inherently just kind of odd.

But if we're trying to get this rosey end of the BB's story, stopping the reunion but continuing the Mike/Bruce show doesn't make sense to me. If some BB scholar writes a detailed book on the group 25 years from now, a rosey end for their story is not that they went out on a high note with the reunion band, but then Mike continued to use the name for x additional number of years with his "different" lineup that had "different" expectations. The hardcore fans know the deal with the various lineups, but most don't, and that usually is to Mike's benefit. Unfortunately, in light of the high successful reunion, that lack of knowledge is working against him just a bit a present. I doubt he's very concerned, though.

Well, actions speak louder than words. I think if done right it might sway something, you never know...

that'd be stupid. you're just ruining everyone else's good time. only a very small amount of people care who's on the stage.

You are on to something.  The issue of  "foreseeability."  To turn back the clock ten years or so, Brian had opportunities which were amazing, exciting and a new band to mold and mentor.  It was that proverbial fork in the road, we all face.  Maybe at this point, there is a sense of fulfillment with individual projects.  No one could foresee that he would outlive his siblings or that the demand for his touch on composition of a giant like Gershwin would fall his way. 

Fast forward...the Touring Band was still doing work in the prescribed "Beach Boys style."  Who could foresee the prospects of this C50?  It was luck or maybe destiny.  If I had a crystal ball, I might have laughed at my own future.  Strange things happen, as in that song.

If someone discussed a reunion in 1999 or so, there would likely have been laughs all around. No one can predict the future.  So, now, when the unlikely has happened. Everyone said, "Yes."  But, the whole concept, after each band took a different road for over a decade was not "foreseeable." 

First, the name wasn't coveted as much as now.  Not unlike Diana Ross, leaving The Supremes.  Did she go back? No.  She remained an individual artist. And, second, there was no "foreseeable" anticipation for a reunion where there is a "group" doing individual leads, and no theoretical "star" (nothwithstanding Brian's presence) - each gave one another a chance to shine.  The dynamic was different.  But, what became clear to the audiences was that Brian's heart never left home, and maybe he realized it too, at the Grammy show.  And, maybe Brian's journey was leading him back home, on some level, all this time, while he was working as a solo artist.  Brian defied those odds of going back to a group dynamic.  Unforeseeable.

The home where Mike kept the fires burning.  And Mike is the messenger here, being shot. 

There is a bridge here in all this fog, that they will likely find.  And cross.    ;) 

The truth is though that if a BB scholar writes a book about the band in 25 years time then all of M&B`s touring will be seen as largely unimportant. Just a footnote.

The only thing that could really damage the impact this reunion tour made would either be to do less successful work together in the future or if arguments between the band members were to overshadow it (which is what makes recent headlines so sad).

If that's true, why was this summer's tour such a big deal?

Because of the people on the stage.

That is the biggest myth when it comes to the beach boys.

People actually do care who's on stage.

I agree that if the group gets back together next year that they won't receive nearly the amount of attention they did this year, but is that really a problem?  If the fans prefer the group stay together, and they can continue to perform well enough, that isn't a bad thing now is it?

And I suppose ignorance is bliss for the rest of them?

And as I said before: "a press release in those markets" does not equal "a nationally-released announcement that the touring Beach Boys will now only consist of Mike and Bruce, with no indication of any potential further reunion shows".

Brian being aware of the gigs doesn't mean he was expecting that announcement.  Neither is it exactly what Brian's representative requested.  I'm surprised you can't seem to see this...

Regards,
Jon Blum

Here's a non-rhetorical answer:  Brian dropping out of the tour wouldn't force Al and Dave to drop out as well.  If Mike wanted to carry on and Al wanted to carry on and Dave wanted to carry on... well, we'd have a touring Beach Boys lineup like most of their first 35 years or so.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I call BS on that.  Yes, I'm also disagreeing with AGD on the press-release stuff and the end-it-all stuff -- but I'll happily point out that he's not playing mouthpiece for Bruce on the reunion situation... for a start, he's enthused about "Radio" (particularly the closing suite) in a way which Bruce very much doesn't.

Andrew felt that "Summer's Gone" was a perfect farewell to the Beach Boys, and I think that's driving his thinking on this.  (Correct me if I'm wrong on this, Andrew!)

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Yeah, but I couldn't see *this* approaching such heights either, so I'm willing to be surprised again!

Really, what do we have to lose?  Given a choice between perfect closure and a bit more flawed-but-wonderful music, I'd lean towards having a bit more.  It's always nice to find that one more crisp at the bottom of the bag, even after you thought you'd run out...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Again -- Brian hasn't been preventing "Beach Boys' reunions" by not touring with them, any more than he was doing so in 1965.

A Beach Boys reunion with Mike, Al, David, and Bruce would still interest me a heckuva lot more than just Mike and Bruce.  And we could have had that at any time between 1999 and now -- even if only for short stints because Dave and/or Al don't want to be on the road endlessly.  It's not Brian who was preventing that.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I think the difference in the size of the venues filled this year compared to last year should make that pretty clear...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

It might interest you a lot more but would it interest the general public? I doubt that it would. When Dave left the band in 1999 it didn`t really affect things and when he rejoined for a while in 2008 it didn`t make too many headlines. I think it would be the same with Al.

It was the 50th anniversary tag that sold the tickets on this tour along with Brian`s return. A reunion in previous years without Brian would never have been a goer.

My thinking is informed by past history and a burning desire not to see all the positive results of this summer just passed diluted if not actually tarnished by a mediocre new album and tour nest year. Fitzgerald, I think it was, said "there are no second acts in American lives". Well, The Beach Boys proved him wrong... however, I think aiming for a third act is, at best, a triumph of wishful thinking over past history. Simply put, I want the events of summer 2012 to be a gloriously unexpected coda, not a shining prelude to mild disappointment. Because I'm a fan of this here band.

Bingo. A reunion without Brian doesn't benefit anyone but the hardcore fans who are willing to look past the fact that Brian's not there, which certainly wouldn't be all of them.

Al won't want to bare-bones tour, Mike/Bruce will have to split more shares with "Beach Boys" and there must have been some reason David didn't stick around in 1999 or 2008...

Without Brian attached, it makes more sense for everyone to be on their own.

Mike probably (rightfully) assumed Brian wouldn't want to go right back out and play shows, so he kept booking them while on the C50 tour. Mike wanted to keep going, Mike has the right to the name. Until there's a solid plan in place to keep doing reunion shows, Mike has every right to what he's doing.

"Brian"'s gripe that the press release went national rather than local is nitpicky and old fashioned thinking. Press releases to local markets would still go national as soon as one major source picks it up. It still turns into "Mike kicked Brian out" and I can easily see how that game of telephone tag goes from "send out local press releases" to "send out press releases" or even "hey we're lazy, let's just send out one since this will get to everyone eventually anyway and who the hell cares."

The greater point here should be that this is probably a positive for the group anyway. They're staying in the press and the reunion group isn't flooding the markets, therefore when and if they do reunite again, people will still care and they may be able to book even bigger shows. Most shows on the C50 tour were not selling out. If they went to those same places right away again, there would be even fewer people there.

Finally, Mike's always been willing to take the role as the villain. Who knows, maybe some forward thinking pr guy is telling the whole group "no press is good press." Another reunion with no fighting isn't a very interesting reunion. Is it?

I'm with Jon. Here's the way I read the situation:  Mike's take is that the C50 tour was always meant to be short term and he's just going back to the game plan previously established. Brian and Al's take is that the game plan changed with the success of the tour and required some additional discussion about the future of the band. Brian's surprise at the announcement, I think, was because it didn't just clarify the lineup for the shows that were booked, but seemed to also put a period on  future shows  with the reunion line up, which hadn't been discussed by the group as a whole since the tour became successful.

I'm also baffled when people insist that they couldn't sustain the big C50 show indefinitely and Mike's line up makes more financial sense. There's a middle ground between big, birthday blow out and a stripped down show with two Beach Boys and John Stamos pretending to be one.

Oh, and Jon... Hello from Gallifrey Base!

I completely agree with you there but I think it would have to be Brian`s management who instigated any changes. If I were the Beach Boys manager in charge of the budgets then my first instinct would be, `there`s too many guys on stage`. They could lose 3 or 4 guys easily while the band would still sound excellent but I guess Brian`s management wanted it like that. The same would go for the travelling situation.

IIRC they had in London...

Cowsill (Drums)
Bragg (Percussion/Vox)
D'amico (Bass)
Totten (Guitar/Vox/MD)
Foskett (Guitar/Vox)
Sahanaja (Keys/Vibes/Vox)
Bennett (Keys/Vibes/Vox)


And ofc Brian/Bruce on inaudible keys, David on lead guitar, Al on inaudible rhythm guitar.

So.... who'd you get rid of?

I still don't understand why Mike doesn't make Bruce play keys in M&B if he wants to keep costs down. The M&B group sound is pretty hollow for these songs. The full band this summer was the backbone of the shows and should stay as it is because it fills out the sound.

I used to share Andrew's view that they're wise to 'go out on top', but after thinking about it I'm convinced that they have another solid album in them - provided that Joe Thomas is there to keep the peace as it were. The problem here is, what do you do with another album? And let's assume for the moment that it's uptempo and it hits all the classic R&R buttons that Brian's known for. What next?

You have to tour. In fact, Capitol would insist.

And I don't think that anyone either wants or clearly knows what they really want in 2013. It's a shame really, because I'm convinced that a follow up album would be fine and well received by us fans. This isn't MIU/LA era - they're grown ups here and they know how to make a well rounded, good sounding album. It would be so easy, except for settling on how to promo the damn thing.

That wasn`t the band for all dates this summer though right? They had 10 backing guys at times including Probyn, a saxophone player and one more.

They could certainly cut 3 or 4 from that as you`ve intimated now yourself.

The "go out while on top" is a great idea.

Except that they did not. They went out while blowing it. The exit sucked.

Their only chance now is to get back together again and do it right all the way through.

AGD knows as well, if not better, than any of us that our beloved Beach Boys have a considerable track record for f***ing it up....for turning the silk purse into a sow's ear.

I am intrigued and enthused by what an on-form, happy and motivated Brian Wilson might be able to do in terms of a 2013 Beach Boys studio album. I am thrilled that everyone, especially Brian, seems to have had a blast on the tour. I was at Wembley and it was a magnificent concert for everyone concerned. Are we tempting fate too much if the Beach Boys try to continue?

Once again, Mike is not f***ing with a formula that works. I haven't seen the Mike & Bruce band but by most accounts they put on a good show. It works for them, fills the coffers, satisfies the audience. With their track record for really, really screwing it up when they are on top of their game...dare we tempt fate?

Once again I take some steps back. In the last year we have had a new album that didn't suck, that had a couple of genuinely great tracks on it and which as a whole is actually pretty good. We've had a world tour with the 5 most important Beach Boys which gathered momentum as it went on and was a triumph for everyone. Perhaps it should end here. How upsetting for everyone, fans, record company, and the Beach Boys themselves (especially perhaps Brian) if they release a crap record and if future dates aren't quite as harmonious.

Maybe Brian and Al should do a record together with David and Brian's band.

Meh. I think the whole thing is just a publicity gag.

the sax is part of the reason Brian's band sounds so good, it really fills out the sound. Probyn also plays the theremin-ribbon-controller-thing and the French horn, which are a lot better than trying to play them on a keyboard.

the Beach Boys often toured with an entire brass section during their prime. I don't see how this is worse.

You've left Probyn Gregory, Paul Mertens and (sometimes, early on) Nicky Wonder off that list of band members.  I honestly don't know that anybody missed one less guitar when Nick left, but I really think all the other guys were pretty indispensable on this tour, except, to be honest, Foskett and Totten kind of have the same role and one or the other probably wouldn't have been missed either.

the bottom line is: if Brian Wilson wants to keep writing and performing as a Beach Boy, he has every right in the world to do that. If Al and David want to keep being Beach Boys, they have every right to be included in the touring act.

They just released a #3 album, sang their asses off in the studio and on stages across the globe, regained their credibility and massive acclaim... and seemed to have a great time in the process.

As Mike/Brian wrote and Bruce sang: "Seems like it could go on forever, long as we can all stick together!"

That list was a list of guitarists, keyboardists and drummers, because it was those it was suggested could be cut.
The idea of dropping guitarists or keyboardists is, of course, nonsense -- there are only a couple of each (as opposed to people holding guitars or stood behind keyboards...). The fact is, the band on stage is so big because none of the Beach Boys make any real instrumental contribution (with the exception of David on the guitar solos). So discounting the Beach Boys on stage, Mike's band has five people providing instrumental backing while the reunion band had nine.

Really we can knock that down to eight, as Foskett's guitar doesn't add much of anything and may not even be in the mix -- his role in the show is close to that of, say, Al, and he's probably better thought of as a Beach Boy than a backing band member (plus he's definitely not expendable). That leaves three more backing band members than Mike & Bruce's band have, covering between them an extra keyboard part, sax, flute, percussion, tannerin, french horn and harmonica.

In other words, the people you'd get rid of if you wanted to strip the backing band down to the size of the one Mike & Bruce use are Probyn, Paul Mertens and Nelson Bragg. The most talented instrumentalist on the stage, the musical director and an extremely accomplished percussionist who allows John Cowsill to concentrate on keeping a rock-solid rhythm while Nelson provides the embellishments. I somehow think that cutting those people just might lead to a drop in the quality of the show...

Oh I see. Got it.

And I don't really think Foskett or Totten are indispensable, it's just that as far as a what they do, it's roughly the same. I see being Brian's security on stage as about equal with Totten's role as director, and their voices are similar and they both play guitar (though as you pointed out, Totten's guitar is more prominent than Jeff's).

No, it was me forgetting Paul Mertens and Probyn. Serves me right having a conversation and posting.   ;D

But Andrew Hickey is OTM anyway.

BINGO!

And if we all were to just quit yelling and screaming about the Mike/Historical band touring the local swap-meet circuit, we'd have nary a clue it was even happening.....

Just quibbling a bit here, Andrew, but seems to me that the BB's had a second act back in the mid-70s: seeds sown by Jack Reiley, fledgling plant ripped from its pot and appropriated by Capitol. They were band of the year in '75 without a new album in over two years. Then they blew it and went off into various flavors of oblivion.

So this was/is their "third act"--well past Fitzgerald's admonition (now, I love Fitzgerald, but he was a sloppy drunk and that statement is more about himself than anything else...in fact, William Carlos Williams' statement might be even more appropriate: "The pure products of America go crazy").

This third act was fueled primarily by Brian deciding to do an album and a tour...all of which became a freaky kind of miracle. And even as they started to get all this off-the-wall "firing" publicity, they go out in a blaze of glory with two stellar London concerts, with Brian getting the last word ("Summer's Gone").

If they can do that with all of this nonsense going on in parallel, I think that filledeplage is absolutely correct in saying they can overcome this and do something even more astonishing--if they choose to. But it's fascinating to watch--because if there was ever a group of guys who have a devil at the left ear and an angel at the right ear, it's Brian and Mike. It will probably go on in one form or another 'til one or the other of them dies.

This is better than any old-time movie serial. As BW wrote about another pure product of America: "The way (they) keep it up could make you cry."

All in all, 2012 is a year populated by tears of joy. Let's let them go away for awhile and see what they come up with next year.

I dunno if any of that counts as 2nd act since it was still when the group was young and is just a part of their career arc up until the Wikipedia designated date of 1996 as when they were officially done and over....... I'd say the grand second act has been this summer.....

Oops! Wikipedia now says 1961 - Present :)

Yes, he HAS been preventing a Beach Boys' reunion for several years. And, yes, the last several years have been different from the time frame 1965 - 1998. From 1965, when Brian stopped touring, until 1983, there was Mike, Al, Bruce, Dennis and Carl in the group, thus, no reason for a reunion. Then, Carl passed and Al left, thus depleting the ranks, and, just by those two leaving, created the potential for a reunion. There were, in effect, just two practicing Beach Boys.

With just Mike and Bruce, I highly doubt they could've gotten a recording contract. I'm not sure they were even ALLOWED TO under the BRI agreement. With all due respect, adding Al and/or David to the mix wasn't going to change that. The same for touring. Al and David would only attract minor interest outside of the diehard fan base, and I'm not sure how fulfilling it would've been, even for diehards. They needed Brian Wilson's participation.

It took Brian to have a legitimate reunion. But, as I posted, he was not interested in one. He was more interested in a solo career. Imagination could've been a Beach Boys' album. The Beach Boys could've celebrated their 40th Anniversary and done the Pet Sounds live thing. The Beach Boys could've contributed to the disappointing What I Really Want For Christmas, even doing a special Holiday Reunion Tour. The Beach Boys could've loaned their voices to both Getting In Over My Head and That Lucky Old Sun.

So, there were opportunities for a reunion of some type - even if it was for the sake of reuniting; they didn't really need an anniversary to celebrate. Mike ALWAYS left the door for Brian. Interview after interview. Year after year. All he got were terse responses from Brian. This post isn't about whether Brian made the right choices or not. That's for another thread. The point is that it was Brian who was needed for a valid reunion - isn't this C50 proof of that? - but he didn't want to be a Beach Boy.

And now he does? So, again, it's about Brian Wilson. It's about what Brian Wilson wants, for his career. And, it always will be.

Looks like the Brian Wilson band had a re-union of another kind today...

I'm not sure how old you are, but what happened to them in the mid-70's is nothing short of a miracle. As a touring band it surely was a second act. No time in their career, before or since were they able to command and perform at the biggest venues in the world.

Sheriff, I don't think Brian's solo career is the reason why he resisted a reunion for so long - perhaps it had something to do with the fact that the last time he tried getting together with them, in 1995, they shot down the music he wanted to do with them.  And obviously that was far from the first time.  Why subject himself to that again by asking them to do Imagination/GIOMH/whatever?

You're right, it IS all about Brian Wilson - he's the only member with the creative juice left to use on the Beach Boys, so before doing the reunion he needed assurance that the Boys would let him take creative control and not question his creative direction like they had done so many times before.

GIOMH is not something the Beach Boys should have been doing.  In fact, it's not something Brian should have been doing. 

Chris (or anybody), correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it ONLY Carl who was not happy with the material in 1995, and Carl's subsequent "walking out" killed the project? I never heard/read that any of the other guys objected.

As far as your second paragraph, I agree with you agreeing with me. However, if Brian could demand and get creative control in 2012, I see no reason why he couldn't get the same assurances in the entire 1998-2011 period. Mike left the door open a long time ago, not just for this 2012 reunion.

I would first of all argue whether Mike was as enthusiastic about a *full* reunion in the last decade or more as Brian is now. Mike often spoke of "working with Brian" or having Brian sit in with "his" band, but as I mentioned in another post, Mike barely mentioned Al's name between 1998 and 2006 or so.

But the literal functionality of a reunion is also what is frustrating some fans. Mike vaguely wanting to "work with Brian" a decade ago and Brian waffling or not wanting to is not the same thing as the reunion band in 2012 being rehearsed, ready to go, 74 shows under its belt, rave reviews, entire inftrastructure planned out, and then Mike putting the brakes on it. That's very different from Brian saying in 1999 "Meh, I think I'll do solo stuff right now" in the face of the prospect of maybe only joining Mike's touring band featuring Bruce, Adrian Baker, Chris Farmer, Phil Bardowell, etc.

Brian plays solo. Mike and Bruce on the road. Why do i want to buy BB albums and listen to the BB sing about harmony right now? Even the ever-hopefull Professor is getting discouraged about the future.  I am getting to my limit. . . . .If there is no formal clarification mentioning getting back into the studio  then i am going to

I see your point, AGD and agree with it to some extent.  That being said, I was ready to close the door on this group after Carl died back in 1998.  Was not interested in a reunion tour, and especially not a new album.  Who wants to see a bunch of aging, dysfunctional guys tarnish a legendary band, especially with their best singer deceased?  So when the reunion did come to fruition, my low expectations were pleasantly proven wrong.  And these guys are better together than apart.  So whilst I don't have a personal "need" for the band remaining together that other fans on here apparently do, I'm not closing the door on them either.  If they decide to go back on the road again next year, and/or even put out another album, I say go for it.  If they decide not to reunite again, then I'd agree with you that they at least found a good stopping point.  

You fools, the only way to preserve the Beach Boys legacy and make sure they go out in style is by having Mike and Bruce tour state fairs and gambling casinos.

Exactly.  Mike and Bruce (with John Stamos) touring on the lowest rung of the oldies circuit is just what the Beach Boys need to secure their legacy of the greatest American Band of all time!
Kinda like using the Stanley Cup as a bedpan.

...Which is why I can't understand why you don't see the Beach Boys continuing to tour with just two of them as, at the very least, a mild disappointment!  Long as they're on the road, you're not really going to get the sort of full stop / exclamation point you're hoping to wrap it up with...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I couldn't see them live during the reunion tour, and regret that bitterly, and yet I can fully empathise with the feelings of messrs Doe and Blum here. Very, very few bands as important as the BBs, with such a long career, ended their story with a gloriously unexpected all time high (can't put it any better myself). I would love my favourites to be part of that select class.

(In fact, I can't think of something comparable at all at the mo...)

Because nobody cares about the M&B show maybe? When books about the band are written in future, all of the years of touring that M&B have done will barely be mentioned. It is the same band in name only and I think anybody with any real interest in music knows that. That`s why the recent tour was seen as a reunion and not just a reshuffle. If the band do nothing more together then Wembley will be seen as their final show.

Nicko - no one cares about the Touring Band? Seriously? You might try explaining your logic to the venues that lost money this summer, and who rely on the return visits of the Touring Band and who sell out routinely. 

Consider me one of the tasteless ones, a fan since the mid 1960's from The Ed Sullivan Show in black and white, and with teaching credentials in Music and whose interests run from classical to rock.  That is a broad brush with which you paint. 

It is pessimistic to regard Wembly as the finale.  IMHO - and respectfully, so.

If they did it before, they can "Do It Again!"  ;)

Yeah but the problem is The Beach Boys deserve better than to be a group like the "Four Tops" or the "Coasters" or the "Temptations" who tour these days with a bunch of guys who are obviously not originals. You don't see the Stones or The Beatles doing things like that. And I think that is the reason the reunion tour wasn't even bigger. But to be fair, that is not just Mike and Bruce's fault. Blame also lays with Carl's estate and Brian for allowing that group to go out and tour. And no matter how good that group was (and they could be good) it diluted what The Beach Boys brand meant to the public.

At this point all we want to hear is that all parties are talking and considering plans for next year, as per Brian's list of offers, and are working with Capital on planning a new album with all aboard. That's all we want, and this would render all current touring "OK for now."

You misunderstand my meaning. Now I actually like the touring band and have seen them on a few occasions. The performances have ranged from good to superb (England 2008). But nobody cares about Mike and Bruce from any other perspective other than it`s a good night out/it will make money. Nobody cares about them from the perspective of them making a significant contibution to the history of The BBs. As I said, they will barely be mentioned in future books when the history of the band is discussed. That`s what I`m talking about and I don`t think that anybody with any interest in popular music genuinely considers them to be the real Beach Boys.

Wembley may well not be the finale but if it is then it would be a fine place to finish (and M&B doing some shows will not seriously affect that). If the group do some more recording or touring then I would be happy as long as it doesn`t turn out as it so often has in the past.

While I agree 1000% with your take the Band deserve and have deserved, in the past, to be better regarded, the press and/or music industry people with press infuence marginalized the Boys since the British invasion.  This is old.  And despite its "old-ness" became ingrained, unfortunately.  

And, you cannot compare the Beatles who have been a non-entity for nearly 40 years, despite their vast contribution to musc.  The Stones have rotated members in and out from the get-go.  And, frankly, there are fewer people who have or could have afforded to see the Stones, but because of accessibility to the Band, have been able to see a live show.  Brian's tickets are no more costly than the Touring Band.  And, Brian has had SRO for some shows I've been to.  So many factors must be considered with filling a venue.  It is promotion, press, involvement in other ways, such as a new CD or film connection, etc., to bump up the interest and ticket sales.  

This argument just does not hold water.  I don't know what the Four Tops have released, but our "Top Five" have not remained stagnant.  They've continued to work and grow, musically and be accessible.  All 3 bands.  And, David
Marks - what a star!

What sets the Touring Band apart, I think is that there is this expectation that the show is one of "audience participation." From the first note.  And it is not "passive entertainment." People come expecting to sing along, or dance.  It is a bona fide party.  People plan their vacations around where the "Boys" are.

And by the close of Brian's (and Al's) shows, people are on their feet, groovin' - but the "BB party" dynamic is not as visible.  That "BB party" contagion, infected that C50 run; Scott B on the piano! Wow! I wish Darian had done likewise!

And, now, those who dissed the Touring Band (who played by the rules) must eat their words "with a fork and spoon."  IMHO  ;)

He also generally plays much smaller venues.

It Ain't Necessrily So.

Both bands played Hampton Beach Casino only weeks apart in 2008.  And play size-comparable venues.  Older theatres.  It is where rock music has taken up residence.  I find it lovely.  Lots of like-minded folks!  And, now we can get a beer! Unlike the 60's!

Sorry because you mentioned Brian`s tickets being the same price I presumed that you must have been talking about the reunion touring band.

In my experience the tickets to Brian`s shows have been much, much more expensive than the tickets to M&B`s shows. That may well not be true for all venues though.

Nah!  Depends on where you sit. Not C50. 

Also depends if you use the resellers to get a better seat, or a credit card promotional presale.  Lots of variables. 

Yep -- and the touring Beach Boys was usually a damn good group even without Brian.  Which is why a reunion of that group, with David in place of Carl, would still attract me to their shows.

Heck, that band would still be only one member different from the group that did that Number 1 hit which nobody here likes to talk about...


Nah, there were four even before you got to Brian, once Dave came back into the fold.  And I'd much rather have been seeing a Mike-Al-David-Bruce lineup than a Mike-Bruce one for all these years -- that's a reunion we could have had at any point after 1999, if they'd wanted to.


So?  The Beach Boys recording, and the Beach Boys as a band -- guys actually playing music right in front of you -- have been very different games for a long time now.  I agree, the recording side would have depended on Brian...  but I'd still think having the rest of the touring band reunited would have been a much better situation than we got from 1999-2011.

Seriously, picture it.  A touring Beach Boys with the Cowsill/Totten/Kirsch/Bonhomme backline, and the four guys up front, would probably be the best Brianless performing Beach Boys we've seen since Dennis died.  Think about it:  no Baker or Kowalski to let the side down; Dave playing kick-ass guitar better than back in the day; the voice of "Help Me Rhonda" and "Cottonfields" back up front nailing his leads.  Only the lack of Carl would make it less than sublime.  I mean, I loved Mike and Bruce when they played the Opera House with that group, but that's the only one of the many times they played Sydney that I saw them...  adding Al and Dave would have elevated the band from optional to must-see for me.

And they could have put that together at any point, even without Brian.

Doing that now wouldn't be the big 50th, but it would still be a better Beach Boys.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Why would they have though?

As mentioned previously, seeing Mike, Al, Bruce and David might interest you but it wouldn`t have that much more appeal than the M&B show to the general public. Why would Mike fire his son and hire Al if it were going to be a bad business decision? Especially when he had been trying to kick Al out of the band for many years.

I won't be happy until LA Times prints an official response from Andrew's Fern!

For the same reason why they brought Carl back into the group in '82, or Bruce in '79:  cause you have a better Beach Boys with them than without them.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

It`s a completely different scenario though isn`t it. In the 70s and 80s The Beach Boys were still trying to be a proper band. Still trying to record hit singles and albums. From 1998 until the reunion they were purely a funtime touring band.

...until they decided to be a proper band again, recording singles and albums, in 2012?

Duh, you said that in your post. I need this coffee.

Except, no.  When Carl came back they had no new album on the horizon (and interestingly, he'd left in part because they weren't planning to work on one).  They were a touring band.  They were no more and no less a touring band in 1997-98, before Al got the boot, when the Beach Boys on the road together were Mike, Bruce, Dave, and Al.

Of course, if they're keeping the door open for doing a new album, and Brian's staying home to work on it...  that's exactly the scenario they've had many times before.   And Mike/Bruce/Dave/Al works as a damn good road band in much the same way Mike/Bruce/Carl/Al/Dennis did...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Interesting that you mention the Touring Band lineup as a going-forward concept.  And, the voice of Carl.  For a lot of the more "sublime" work, Christian is remarkably reminiscent of Carl.  Not everything, range-wise, but where it matters.  Good Vibrations.  Family vocal cords.  Wow. 

People talk about too over-the-top.  Maybe with production, but, not so much with the musicians, who almost replicated, the fullness of the studio.  It was that percussion, sax, xylophone, woodwind and brass, that provided that "wall of sound."

Somehow, Chicago [of Beachago  ;)] is able to get more musician power and on smaller venue stages.  And they can connect better with their fans, and seem much more laid-back and relaxed, somehow in a great give-and-take with the audience. 

And, Brian seems to like the road better.  He look radiant in those RAH photos.  Those pictures are worth a thousand words.

I'm surprised this ended with Brian and Al's statement.

When is David sending his into the LA Times?

He's waiting to see what Jeff has to say.

Al didn't have an official response. It was Brian or his publicists reporting second hand that Al wanted to continue to tour. The statement said David wanted to continue as well, so that should count as David's POV if it counts as Al's.

BTW, Al has now disavowed being in favor of the fan petition for the tour to continue. He released a statement that a fan put that link up on his Facebook page. Considering it was also on his Twitter page and fans aren't allowed to post links there, it does seem he had something to do with endorsing it, but now he's backing away.

Always keeping it clean.

Damn Al Jardine fans, always guessing his passwords...

In 2012/3 would that fourpiece work as a business though? That`s the question isn`t it. If Mike were to kick his son out of the band and bring Al in then it would have to make business sense.

And Mike and Carl obviously obviously never had wuite the problems that Mike and Al had.

Let's look on the positive side. Another reunion is happening. John Stamos with Mike and Bruce! :)

I didn't want to post in this thread as I said all I had to say, but I stumbled across these two articles.


Mike Showing Some Love To The Beach Boys
http://www.cashboxcanada.ca/3317/mike-showing-some-love-beach-boys


Memories of Michael Love!
http://www.cashboxcanada.ca/3325/memories-michael-love

Verily, it is written.

(http://cdn3.wn.com/pd/f0/fb/520b9768a5245b9233abc547ebc3_grande.jpg)

Fig. 1242. Mike Love, keeping it all safe.

"Er, Michael, there appear to be hordes of women storming the station. What will you do?"

Michael looks at the intern, the glare piercing his very soul. His motion of opening a tattered pack of unfiltered Camel cigarettes, striking a match on the desk and inhaling wearily all seem mechanical, yet his eyes do not lose their power. The intern gulps as Michael Love finally breaks the gaze to look up at the stairway of smoke his cigarette created, and then exhales, obliterating the wisping column in one breath. So it goes, Mike's look appears to say, a wry smile breaking on his lips. The intern thinks better of mentioning the no-smoking ban.

"We Unleash The Love." He replies.





The DJ sighs, and cues up Kokomo.

 :lol Hypehat, You should write a novel about Mike Love.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
So perfect.