The Smiley Smile Message Board

OhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhYeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! If this is really Steve, he's the mahn! Have fun reading, :o

"He really got into transcendental meditation, and just wouldn’t stop writing shitty songs about it."

Priceless.

All This Is That is not even close to being shi**y and it's about TM. Question, why do you guys keep bringing this sh*t up all of the time? You guys really need to grow-up, just a little, even.

Kind of strange how a bunch of people "in the know" have popped out of the woodwork in the past couple months. Lorren Daro, Ray Lawlor, now Steve Love.

That Man vs Clown posting is from 2006. Old news and sour grapes.

Erm, carefully re-read the title of the thread.

On Chinese blogs and message boards, there are people called "wu mao dang" (50 cent party). It is said that they are given 50 cents for every time they shoot down a post that says something negative about the Communist Party.

It seems that Mike has a similar group of defenders here. I'd suggest that Mike is paying them each 50 cents a post, but we all know that he'd take at least a half of that for his co-writing credit.

No, we use Common Sense when assessing the music and the band. Unlike the few of you who never give up the ghost no matter how much it is proved to you that Mike was not the sole evil incarnate person in the group. I see it as Common Sense versus Idiocy.

That was fifty cents well earned! I'd suggest finding "Looking Back with Love" in the cutout bin and purchasing it. You can use the other quarter for "Rock 'n Roll City."

That was over 30 years ago. There are lots of things over that time that can hashed to death, but what really matters is how things are going in the here and now. I have Mike's solo album, as well as every other band member's, as well. Bar Dennis' album, they were all hit & miss, so what does that prove with Mike? Nothing that doesn't also apply to Bruce, Al, Carl or even Brian in some cases. So what's the point? None that I can see.

Mike's album is actaully more listenable than either of Carl's albums on which many of the songs sound like out-takes of the previous song or verse-vica.

Please provide links to Mike's solo equivalent to these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVlIFVJLP8I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEPXYBNMcfs

What's in the "here and now" is Mike, in his late years,  trying desperately to rehabilitate his image and ride the Wilson coattails even further by suddenly dishing out praise for both PS and Smile...but still somehow always dropping in the genius of "Kokomo."

Hey, what else is an aging rock star to do? You can't change what's already been done, but you can acknowledge your errors and move on, which I think this Reunion has taught us well. I'd rather see this from Mike than reading this tripe that you have been posting. What Mike and the band is doing, heals. What you do is try to rub salt in old wounds. I'll take what Mike is doing, thank you.

I don't know anything about Mike's personal motivations. I've heard the most recent solo album, and it's certainly better than previous exposure to Mike's solo work would suggest. That doesn't mean it's good, exactly, but it's certainly listenable. And at least a couple of songs (Cool Head among them) are excellent.

That all being said, I think a lot of recent reconsideration of Mike on this board isn't based on thinking that he's a creative equal to Brian Wilson, or even Carl. It's about appreciating the very real abilities he brought to the group in their most popular years -- that is, as an agile Chuck Berry-style lyricist, a compelling front man and a distinctive lead vocalist. You don't even have to think he's a nice guy to appreciate these things -- they're just self-evidently true.

I've been a huge critic of Mike over the years. I think he's done some appalling things. After the suit over BWPS, I swore I'd never forgive him. And yet, Brian did. And in watching two full shows of the reunited band, there's no question who was the glue that held the stage show together. It was Mike. And he wasn't doing it solely for himself -- he was doing it for his band, and for the music.

This myth that Mike's abilities as a frontman were necessary for the early and continued success of the Beach Boys is a complete fallacy. Mike has no particular talents as a frontman; that Brian surpassed him even in this is evidenced here, beginning at 3:05: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdYb3MaJ4K8

Even in the '80s, when Brian was hardly at his best, his stage charisma, connection with the audience and witty banter shine through. Mike looks like a Hee Haw reject in comparison.

Brian was so obviously drugged up in that video. No way you'd see Brian Wilson doing that in a straight state of mind.

I've seen Brian many times and witty he is not. Funny? Yes, once in a while. Brian does the minimum connecting with his audience and generally needs prodding from Jeff. Brian is, well, Brian and his fans know what to expect out of him. You really need to post at Brian's board. You seem to be a typical Brianista. I shouldn't expect more than what you offer.

Here we go. "Brianista" is now the "commie" of revisionist Beach Boys fans.

And there you are again. We have stop meeting like this. ;) Eveyone here posts their opinion and I am giving mine. This Brian is a better frontman than Mike is seriously stupid. Even Brian would tell you that.

(http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/2804/lookingbackwithlovedj7.jpg)

Just stopping by to post a picture of me and Looking Back with Love, taken the day I got it in the mail after purchasing it on ebay, 6 years ago.

I haven't been that happy in a long time.

Great post.

That is true, and thank you for pointing it out.

However, that HAS BEEN TRUE for 50 years. You are commenting on two recent shows. I've seen the Beach Boys in concert about 30 times since 1978, and Mike did the same things at all of those shows that he is doing now. Mike was the funny one; the audience ALWAYS laughed at his jokes and one-liners. Most people that I observed thought the "Be True To Your School" intro/schtick was funny. During shows that Brian was present, Mike ALWAYS acknowledged Brian's genius songwriting. Mike always pointed out the beautiful vocals from Cousin Carl Wilson. He usually made a point to acknowledge another band member who wrote a particular song (like "Disney Girls" by Bruce or "Lady Lynda" by Al) that they were performing. At the few concerts I attended that David Marks was with the group, Mike made a point to acknowledge his presence and his "King Of The Surf Guitar" playing.

I always thought Mike was "doing it for his band and the music". All of the other nonsense was "off the court" if you will. So many fans are NOW commenting about how good Mike sounds and how funny he is and how he mentions the others and on and on. HE WAS ALWAYS LIKE THAT ON STAGE!

The great thing about reactionaries is their responses are so predictable. It's not a coincidence that the reactionaries also tend to be Mike Lovers, given their likely shared ideological preferences. Frankly, though, I didn't expect you to swallow this quite so easily. But, you proved my point, hook, line and sinker. Thank you for playing.

I don't come here to play childish games. Please do not respond to my posts and I will do like wise with yours. Oh, and kiss off.

I am not anywhere near anything resembling a "Mike Lover" but I can acknowledge the obvious: Mike is a natural on stage. The audiences eat him up. His jokes are cheesy and some are a bit old. But he has a great stage presence and you can tell he really really enjoys it. Brian, on the other hand has never liked being on stage. His jokes often elicit "WTF" reactions from those who don't know him as well as some here do, and he always (even on his best of days) comes off as not wanting anything more than to finish a performance and get off the stage.

This is without a doubt one of the stupidest threads I've ever had the displeasure of reading with the lion's share of the posts done by (of course) two of the biggest trolls on this board.

Jas, Thank you for addressing this issue. I am finished posting in this thread.

What a totally charitable, not at all noxiously self-serving outlook!

what's this about... cheap shot?

I'm pretty sure Mike had nothing to do with Wipeout, isn't that just a Fat Boys track with wall-of-Brain vocals?

Why would anyone want to hear what Stephen Love has to say?  He just made himself look like a huge crook with that posting.  Maybe he didn't fit the legal definition of embezzlement or somehow wriggled out of it, but I think living in luxury in your client's "real estate investment" does in fact constitute a breach of fiduciary duty, to say the least.

Sock it to 'em.

Remember, kids -- taking cheap shots at the motives of people who disagree with you makes your argument a sure-fire winner.

And bonus points if you can accuse the other side of being predictable when you're *bashing Mike Love*.  :-)

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Yeah, this is a well trod road. A long and winding road. But when I read Danimalist's post I shnorted Diet Pepsi out me nose...

I dig it. Mike is Dr. Love, not Dr. Eeeevil. But there sure are some apologists in his corner around here, endemic of the fault lines that continue to lurk just below the surface of this bad ass band. And that's okay - because earthquakes usually happen decades apart. While everything's nice and calm, let's have another album (make it a rocker) and continue building villas on the sides of mountains. Fun is in, it's no sin.

Ah...finally some sweet sanity on the board. And someone clever enough to know the difference between trolling and sarcasm.

I find the term "apologists" being used to describe fans who actually like Mike to be a tad bit hypocritical.  To praise Brian and Dennis to the high heavens requires quite a truckload of apology and forgiveness, wouldn't you say?

Definitely. We're dealing with some pretty flawed people here (aren't we all?), but given their upbringing and the time period, it's hardly surprising. Unlike others here, who claim to "love" band members or the band itself, it's the music I love, not the people. And the music I love tends to be that with the least input from Mike, including the best parts (IMHO) of the new album. Personally, I'm a lot more similar to Mike (never drank or did drugs, for example), but there is something about his self-promotion, manner and wording of his opinions that really turns me off. But that doesn't mean I "hate" Mike; I don't know him. Nor that I love Brian. However, as I wrote for my Facebook status on his 70th birthday: "Happy 70th to the man who has brought me greater joy throughout my life than anyone else!" It is Brian that created those melodies, those harmonies, those productions...using the tools available to him, that have so positively impacted my life. If Mike Love has done that for you, great. I'd question your taste, but, whatever. Brian has done that for me, often despite Mike, not because Mike was a (what we call in social sciences) a "necessary condition."
What the rest of the band gave me are the gorgeous harmonies, that it seems only family members are capable of (the Carters, the Everlys, the Bee Gees, hell, even the Gatlin brothers)...something, I've always guessed, about shared tonal qualities. But those are tools that Brian used, much like he used the tremendous talents of the Wrecking Crew.

The truth lies somewhere between the two extremes being proffered here, and my opinion of him is evolving somewhat. Love's heartfelt comments at the Grammy Museum event were telling, and illuminated the multifaceted nature of his relationship with the group as a whole. He is a ham, which enables him to be comfortable onstage and entertaining, which the audience mostly enjoys, even if many also find his antics smarmy and annoyingly cutesy (the drawn-out opening to Be True to Your School? Insufferable IMO)

 He has also shaped and pushed the band toward his desired, mostly lightweight image relentlessly over the years, away from the progressive direction that the Wilson brothers were fighting for throughout most of the '70s, only reluctantly ceding a degree of hegemony to Brian and Al on the setlist, with these concessions wrested from his iron fist with great effort. He obviously is at least somewhat fond of the deeper cuts, as shown by his reactions to CA Saga's performances and his willing participation in the more serious work during the late '60s- early '70s  (with the exception of most of SMiLE, which he admires but is loathe to give too much credit to because doing so would be admitting both that it was beyond him lyrically and that he made a bad call by playing a significant role in creating a negative environment around the recording of it, two things he is not able to publicly acknowledge), but he is determined to give them as close to an obligatory role in the current tour as he can get away with (witness "It's O.K."s inclusion, a mediocre track at best but fitting his vision of the band's ideal, more commercial image).

There is an element of reactionary revisionism in the relatively recent, almost wholesale embrace of him by many, but some rehabilitation of his image is deserved, reluctant as I am to award it to the main Clean Liver (nothing wrong with that in and of itself, unless it inhibits creativity and progressive songwriting) who, along with Bruce and a now remorseful Al Jardine, steered the band towards becoming a nostalgia act in the mid-to-late '70s and thereafter.

I thought the more interesting comments were from Mike's daughter, Ambha.  By no means am I Mike Love's biggest fan but in no way is he a horrible person and when a 15 year old girl comes to the defense of her father like that, you have to respect her.  Good for her.

Best troll thread ever.

  Wow.."It's O.K." rocks..great fade

(http://i48.tinypic.com/2vt1q4h.jpg)

Mix WELL, Sir Leonard.

All kidding aside, it was interesting to hear Steve's take on the whole lawsuit thing. Granted, it's one side of the issue but still interesting. Didn't the Gaines book speak of how the managers of this band never seemed to leave under pleasant circumstances back in the day? I'm remembering some kerfuffle over Nick Grillo's departure.

it's because they unplugged the phone and didn't take his calls!

Hmm, maybe that's why there were no calls from him in Be Here In The Morning.

yeah, that's the joke. the line before that is "stay in on the weekend and unplug the phone".

WHOOOOSH

Well, that's very well put. And yes, we are all flawed, so this understanding makes it difficult for me to stand back with my arms forded and judge Mike to the nth degree. I'd say the Beach Boys as a whole have done for me what Brian's done for you. Now, when I say The Beach Boys as a whole. of course I mean mainly Brian. Then again I am quite fond of each and everything the band has ever given us, therefore I'd have to rate Mike highly as well. So there's no accounting for taste.  ???

I'm highly sceptical that all [or even any] of the people claiming to be posting there are really the people they claim to be. However, I do have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale- cheap - that might interest some of you.

I gotta also ask: based upon the above quote: as a fan, do you stop at say, say Friends or Sunflower and beyond when it was clearly not just Brian using tools to achieve greatness? Is there a point when you give it up for the other guys as valid artists in their own right even if the output run contrary to your personal tastes? I'm just trying to understand certain points of view which continue to throw me.

Ambah or whatever the name is ... just made a lot of people look like idiots. It is 2012 and the Beach Boys are back together ... fucking enjoy it and stop bitching about the past.

Yeah, well you're sittin' here reading it so what's with that? Don't like it, don't read it.

              Troll=anyone who presents a Myke Luhv opinion that THE REAL BEACH BOY( :o) doesn't agree with.

He makes a good point!

But if OSD falls over in the forest and no one's around to hear it: does OSD even exist?

A troll is whoever a moderator decides is a troll. I'm surprised baiting them is allowed here.

Yours is bigger than mine, and in this case, that ain't necessarily a good thing:

(http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/7545/dcam0030.jpg)

(http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/7545/dcam0030.jpg)

Wow, that's pure class.

For some reason it makes me want to glue that label to an NES cartridge. Edit some sprites, rescore the deet doot music and you have...

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7271/7565484696_cf720fb0d3_b.jpg)

(You realize, of course - that I'm a hair trigger away from making a fake commercial for this.)

Don't stop with a fake commercial! Make the whole damn game!!!!  ::)

If the sprite tables weren't so obnoxious, I'd probably do it! A horrible 8bit fuzzy California Girls loop OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. If you finally beat the game, it just flashes CATCH A WAVE!!! and starts over from the beginning. Endlessly limited replay value for all ages.

This would make a great game! Might I suggest a few level ideas?

1/ A Super Mario style platform level, where Mike has to make it to the Courthouse on time so he can file his latest lawsuit against Brian, overcoming various obstacles and enemies along the way.

2/ A Rockstar type level, where Mike is on stage and you have to press the correct button combinations to make him chickendance. Make too many mistakes and the crowd will boo you or worse, leave to go see a Brian solo show instead.

3/ A Paperboy type level where Mike is crusin' aound LA in his convertable, throwing copies of every unsold SIP and Looking Back with Love album at shops, record stations, passersby etc... in a vain attempt to convert them into fans. Bonus points given for running over Van Dyke Parks as he is crossing the road.

4/ A Streetfighter II level where Mike has to take on Dennis in a brutal fight to the death.

Only 4 levels is not much value for your buck so I'd welcome anymore ideas from other posters.

I certainly give ML credit as an artist. Believe it or not, I think I see him quite clearly in the totality of who he is. To the extent that he shaped the band's identity contrary to "my personal tastes" (which many share BTW) and away from a more creative direction, and has been a factor in thwarting their full artistic flowering, he is a frustrating figure, but I certainly acknowledge his vital role in the group and see the improbably triumphant and healing aspect of what's going on in these times for the band and their offspring, and fully celebrate that. Why does everything have to be so all or nothing, black or white?

If someone was going to pretend to be another person posting on a comment section of a website, I think they'd probably pick someone a little more famous than Ambha Love, Stephen Love or Adrian Baker.


People can be a bit more skeptical than necessary on here sometimes. Ambha Love isn't exactly a household name. I'd say its far more unlikely that a pathetic person would pretend to be one of those people, than any one of those completely normal, non-famous people would be posting on that website defending themselves or Mike Love.

It could be kinda like Lounge Lizard Larry where there would be a level where you're Mike gallivanting around his island paradise. As you troll around the landscape style (think Zelda 1) playing field, Mike can dart into Club Kokomo and suddenly a nintendo-style version of She's Got Rhythm will come on as you try and navigating Mike toward various girls to dance with before she leaves with the other guy. The trick would be breaking away, buying the girl and drink and getting the drink back to her before the villainous swain  takes her home!

And then the Mike character could also duck into a roller skating rink where........

Alright, I'll bite. Two questions:

1. What is Man vs Clown? I went to the site and it appears to be some guy's blog about random things ( Star Trek, telemarketers, etc.) How would Adrian Baker, Stephen Love and Ambah Love all know about it and why would they hang out on it? It doesn't seem any different than any other person's blog.

2. Furthermore, why would the aforementioned "friends of the Love Doctor" all make a point to sign their names at the end of their posts?

Not for nothing, but I know a guy who kept the members of a Beatles message board hyperventilating for two years because he had everyone convinced he was Neil Aspinall and it was fairly easy to pull off.

To me it is exactly the names the impersonating self-ordained "expert" would choose. Obscure enough to satisfy their "experty" ego and fringe enough to seem like reality randomness.

I've just come to the conclusion that I would pay good money for a cd's worth of 1980's nintendo-style Beach Boys tunes.

You can remove the quote marks from Ray - he is who he says he is and he knows that he says he knows.

Not unlike me, come to think of it.  ::)

It would be like if I found some guy's blog bout the TV show "Flipper" and left a comment like "I loved that show. It was so sweet. It used to make me cry." and signed it Brian Wilson. 

You, Sir, sound right to me.

I believe oldsurferdude is who he says he is, though.

It would be a bit disturbing for some middle-aged guy to pretend to be Ahmba Love, though not impossible, I suppose.  Just creepy.  The blog writer said he got tons of hits from various Mike Love searches.  Some blogs allow the authors to not only see how many hits, but what type of searches resulted in hits.  So, it could be Ahmba, Steven, and Adrian Baker were trolling for info on the 'net using Mike as a search term and wanted to put in their two cents.   It could be them or at least some of them are who they say they are.  Is it true that Jackie Love is part African-American as Ahmba or "Ahmba" said?  I never knew that.  It's slightly interesting, if true.  It also makes me feel a little bad for Ahmba if she really does Google her dad and have to read things like fans who say they'd like to meet her dad and kick him in the testicles until he vomited (one of the posters on the blog) or some of the super-nasty, threatening things said about him on YouTube video comments.

You know, Jackie's dad is black. Mike said so in the Howard Stern interview of 1992 (he said "black"). So maybe it is Ambha. Who knows. She claims to be 15 years old in 2006, but I hear that she's still in high school. That'd be odd. Besides, there's been plenty of hateful threads on this very board and she has never posted here that I know of (which would make more sense given that this is a fan community and the Clown blog is an idiots community).

It'd be strange, though, for someone like Baker, who people keep talking about on this board to not post here. Same thing for Steve Love. Steve is not much talked about, but his era is.

No, she doesn't.

Ahmba's posts were made in 2011, so 15 would be about right for her age.  Stephen Love's posts were just this week.  The original blog post was in 2006, but it's been attracting comments for years, and the blog master posted a follow-up post, in which he talked about the thousands of blog hits he got for his original entry.  That second post had the comment from someone claiming to be Adrian Baker, who said Jackie Love may have been behind his firing.

BTW, Stephen posted again on that original post just yesterday. He says that he's sorry to see Brian "forced" to be on stage.  He also posted Rocky Pamplin's supposed e-mail address and said Rocky welcomes hearing from fans.  Weird!

Who wants to send a Rocky a email telling him how he was an asshole to the BBs in the 1970s.

your, Sir, are right! I misremembered Ambha's post as having been written the year of the original post by the blogger.

Why would Steve post Rocky's email? It is beyond bizarre and makes the whole deal lose credibility.

The drama of this band's history is the gift that keeps on giving. Let the ladies have "The Bold and the Beautiful". I've got the Beach Boys!

"I've got the Beach Boys, and you chicks got the Bold and the Beautiful..."

Weezer FTW!

ME!!

 ;D Weezer B-side knowledge FTW!