The Smiley Smile Message Board

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/mike-love-books-beach-boys-shows-without-brian-wilson-20120626

Does anybody else find the wording in this headline and article to be slightly misleading, or at best, stirring the pot?  It's like RS is just trying to stir up drama in the Beach Boys world. 

And if you're a Mike Love defender, don't read the reader comments for this piece as they'll piss you off.

Do you think The Beach Boys actually care?

"Stirring the pot?" Yes and no.

It is perhaps slightly too soon to write that kind of article, mind. If they'd booked a few dates (which at least, the Nutty Jerry's spokesman seems to suggest that that's what they've been trying) it'd be more like 'news.'

Slow day at the RS office?

Well, I guess not. According to the article, Brian's response was "news to me," and then started in on how much he's enjoying the tour...so maybe it doesn't phase him at all.

Adds Wilson, "As for me, the tour is going great. I'm having a blast. I love watching the Boys on stage. That's Why God Made the Radio charted at Number Three! Can you believe a Number Three album?"

Good to see Brian enjoying the success of the album!

i like what chuck powell said

This.

Thanks, That would be me.  I thought I'd try to inject some reason before the Mike bashing got out of hand.  And I'm no Mike Love apologist, either, I could just see that comment thread becoming another ridiculous "Mike=Evil, Brian=God" kinda thing.

Slow news days indeed..

Do they Brian on speed dial?

Most things the Beach Boys say in interviews you can take with a grain of salt. However, one thing I believe to be true. Mike Love has said for about the last 35 years that....Any time Brian wants to sit down and write songs with Mike OR any time he wants to sit in with the band for a concert, HE IS WELCOMED.

If Brian Wilson wants to continue touring with the band after the reunion dates, or if he wants to choose selective dates to sit in, I am absolutely sure Mike (or whoever) will find a place for Brian and his piano.

Well said.

This is the deal: Mike can't -- and shouldn't -- have it both ways. For as long as I (or any journalist) has been talking with him, he's been pining for Brian's return. It's been a benchmark of every interview he's given over the past decade -- even during the most viscous of legal disputes against his cousin and his management. Well, in 2012 Mike finally got his wish -- he got Brian back. True, the new LP is devoid of any true Wilson/Love collaborations, but Mike has Brian back -- along with show stealing David Marks and a revitalized Al Jardine, who's finally learned how to work a crowd and enjoy performing during his long hiatus away. Regardless of having the best sounding shows since '74/'75, amazing attendance at credible venues, a Top Three album, major press by every respected outfit across the globe, Mike Love is losing money. In addition to losing money, he conceded a massive amount of power to Melinda Wilson. We all joke here about how and when they'll f uck it up -- THIS is how. Now, I could be wrong, these could be a few one-off shows in-between further plans TBA -- but Bruce Johnston has been (almost gleefully) quite vocal about this scenario since BEFORE the tour even started.

The bottom line is this: In the "modern age" the Beach Boys have never been cooler, more relevant, sounding better, more respected than they are now. If Mike wants to blow this and go back to being a scaled back carny band in secondary markets for the extra few dollars and head cheese position, he will never be forgiven. If this thing ends with Mike Love rejecting Brian Wilson and the quality of the combined band they've assembled now for something LESS, his place in history is sullied forever.

Agreed. Thank you.

If these dates were booked before the 50th Celebration tour dates, then almost everything you just said is irrelevant. 

I don't like the idea of Mike/Bruce as the Beach Boys after this tour either, but if they already had these dates booked, I don't think they should be cancelled.

Those dates could easily be postponed or even canceled.

Oh, here's an idea. Why not take the 50th Tour to South America? Something is very wrong here.

you're being alarmists.  Let's just wait and see what happens.

Enjoy the reunion while it's happening, and if it picks up again next year, let's enjoy it then too. And if Mike/Bruce do some shows in between, fine.

I see almost no possible way that Mike Love is losing money on this tour. He's going from playing 2,000 capacity venues to 20,000 capacity venues with tickets as much as 2x the price. Even with splitting the top end money five ways rather than four ways and the backup band money ten ways rather than five, and taking tour buses/trailers of equipment/first class rather than coach + guitars he's still got to be making more money on this tour than previous Mike/Bruce tours.

It already is-"The Most Hated Man In Rock and Roll".

1. The sh*t was stirred in this very board days before RS did.

2. No one on this board, including insiders and super fans, seems to have a clue if the South America dates were booked before this tour. Probably they were, in which case the discussion is pointless.

3. Ouch. But I guess Howie is right about Mr. Jardine.

4. Bruce is outspoken and candid. He says many things. But he'll jump into the bandwagon he is asked to, as a good soldier. Remember that up until a year ago he claimed he'd watch a reunion from the audience.

5. Can't we enjoy the rest of the C50 peacefully, without sending Mike Love to rock and roll hell for things we know sh*t about?

Howie's plugged in. I'd believe him. He also may simply mean that Mike's making less money than he would be if he was touring with Bruce. That is easy to believe.

I'd like to see how though. 2,000 x $25-$50/2 =/= 5,000-20,000 x $50-$425/5 unless Brian is taking half the money. Sure, bigger venues mean bigger overhead, and a bigger backing band + set + crew take a good chunk of money, but also add in record sales from the new album and I have absolutely no idea how Mike could be losing money on this tour/reunion.

If tonight's Boston show had been played at the Cape Cod Melody Tent like a Mike/Bruce show would have, it would be a capacity of 2000 with tickets averaging around $50. That's $100,000 before venue, crew, travel, tour manager.

Tonight's BOA Pavillion show has a capacity of 5,000 (one of the smallest on the tour) and lets say the average ticket price is $100 (which includes the VIP), that equals $500,000. At the very least Mike is breaking even on the tour, and is making even more based on album sales.

If they *did* have them booked, what would be 'very wrong' is to break a contract with a promoter, deprive an audience of a show they'd enjoy, and deprive Tim Bonhomme and Randell Kirsch of a job they've been promised (and have maybe turned other work down for).

Well, if your priority is employing Tim Bonhomme (who is already employed on this tour!) and Randell Kirsch over your incredibly successful renewed collaboration with one of the greatest artists recorded sound has ever seen, go for it! But expect people to bitch. Especially with reports of Brian enjoying himself, wanting to continue this, and declaring the SA stuff "news to me."

A deal could be worked out with those involved. Postponing those dates would work. Don't you think the fans in South America would rather see the 50th Anniversary show instead of the Mike & Bruce show???

I refuse to believe Mike is "making less money", that is almost impossible

It's really not if you think about it. Let's not count the matter of paying backing band, crews etc...that just complicates things. Plus,we have no clue on the actuallity of money matters. But as a best guess, Mike stands to make the most money when the divide is split up for the M&B shows. I'd be willing to wager that he takes more than Bruce in that situation.

With the 50th, you have five major players. The divide has to be split more evenly. I'm not saying all 5 BBs make the same amount (could be possible, but is Dave really pocketing more than Brian?), but even with 5x the profit, he might still be making less than he would where he's the main player.

I agree with the rest of your post, Howie, but I think your last statement is a little too end-of-the-worldish.  

The logistics of all this are much more complicated than just Brian staying on.  Part of the reason Brian is loving this tour as much as he is, is because it's his band up there supporting him.  That won't necessarily be the case when the Mike/Bruce show rolls on.  Darian and company are loyal to Brian and don't go where he isn't.  So how do they coordinate Mike's band vs Brian's band?  The only way would be to do short mini tours with each group.  Mike and Bruce sail on with their show and every few months they regroup the Reunion band (with Al and David) every so often.  Basically, whenever Brian's resting up...Mike and Bruce do their own thing.  

But to expect this current band to freeze and stay exactly the same and only have Brian come in whenever he wants...ain't gonna happen.  Once Brian leaves, the domino effect will start and the roster will change signifiantly and that doesn't make it easier for Brian to come back.  

Possibly, just possibly, Mike (or his business people) consider honouring business agreements they've made a priority. For a touring band like the Beach Boys (either line-up), a lot of people's income depends on them keeping to their commitments -- band members, road crew, promoters and so on -- and, yes, it *would* be wrong to renege on a deal that had been made with them, that they were counting on. and that they may well have cancelled other work for.

Likewise, with the talk of rescheduling or postponing -- how do you know that the rest of the band could make it? Probyn, for example, said in that interview that got discussed a lot a little while ago that he'd committed to the tour when it was far fewer dates, and that he was missing his family. *Since* that interview, the tour has been extended by another month. It may well be that no matter whether Brian, Al and/or David want to continue touring with this line-up, that period of time is simply not possible for this band.

None of us here know anything about this other than what was stated in the initial report -- or if someone does know they're not saying so -- and while that's the case, what on earth is the point in assuming the worst about anyone involved?

I like how everyone assumed they had to wrap up by such and such a date due to Brian not wanting to tour for very long, based on Bruce Johnston's statement. Now we know what he really meant -- they had Mike and Bruce shows planned much closer than seems wise that Brian had no idea about... and as noted, he did seem pretty damn gleeful about returning to.

If they were so honorable about living up to their contracts, perhaps informing Brian Wilson of their plans would've been a good idea too? Of course, in the whimsical world o' Wilson, he may have been told directly and in countless unread communications and was off thinkin' about string or Spector's version of Zip a dee doo dah instead. Or just didn't want to deal with it in public when asked and feigned ignorance.

I wonder what the real story is, it's super fun for all of us to speculate of course. Someone should blame Al Jardine right about now just for kicks.

It's all Alan Charles Jardine's fault

Obviously Brian had no clue, no this does means it was prepared without him, like, i mean, it's not him not wanting to tour or whatsoever! which is good news, hopefully they'll keep touring once in a while all together, as for the albums he seems to want to make some more so yeah.

Bruce is a salaried employee. He is essentially a backup band member. Mike is the only member of BRI on his tours.

I'm going to guess that this and maybe some other dates were booked before the Reunion became a thing [maybe last year] with different promoters and Mike's tour management etc. and Mike is going to honor that committment with what was booked ie. his pre-reunion licensed band. Or maybe not.

Not less money than his cousin, but less than on his own.

The band is not paid equally on this tour, nor is this a BRI operation.
The tour is being operated by 50 BIG ONES productions, which is Brian, Mike and Joe Thomas.

Regarding the South American dates, this reunion has been slowly coming together since last fall. Not that it really matters, but do you believe that dates would be locked down, money gets cleared and the promoter/venue/artist WAITS NINE MONTHS to announce a performance??? I've never heard of that.

This is what I think: I think Mike is having a blast doing the tour, enjoying most of the things we're loving about it, but having just interviewed him at length, he feels that although sounding incredible, the "production" and number of musicians is gluttonous (my word) and prefers a seven-man band. I personally don't think he appreciates having to do ANY aspect of his job by committee -- which despite getting Brian "back" and becoming somewhat of an A-lister in the Rock world again -- is a hassle to how he operates (again, my words). I credit him TREMENDOUSLY for taking the hits he had to take to make this tour happen. He is the hero of this tour. He truly put his money where his mouth is. BB 50 has a long way to go. Rather than focusing on what will happen afterwards, the key members of this band should finally work on the infrastructure of their company and how to keep this thing viable, high quality, and ongoing. With Capitol being eventually meshed with Universal, things will start changing regarding their back catalogue. Now isn't the time for anyone in this band to be thinking about quick cash -- this is rounding third. BRI should finally learn from its past and be thinking bigger and well beyond simply an album, a tour, and a TV show.

Wow, Mike holds the license but the tour is Brian's. He should be up for a Noble Peace Prize this next round. Mike that is.

This tour was almost perfectly designed to be a "one time thing." 

And Summer's Gone was going to be the last Beach Boys song ever. With Brian having fun, you want them to stick to both? They need to revisit this licensing issue and involve a squadron of lawyers, tho. With Capitol involved again and a helluva lot more press, the game needs to be upped while there's still time to play it.

After the South American dates, the state of The Beach Boys - touring, recording, marketing, etc. - will again be determined by what Brian Wilson wants, not Mike Love. It was that way, it is that way, and it will always be that way. Once Brian and hiswifeandmanagers decide what he wants, work will begin to make that happen. If Brian wants the touring Beach Boys to continue the way it is now, it will continue that way. If he doesn't, it won't.

Spot on. Yes.

Has anyone got objections with Mike and Bruce doing side tours under their own names, when the real Beach Boys aren't touring? Mike's even got his own website now, a good place to plug solo -- er, duo -- shows.

I don't believe Brian didn't know about the South American dates.  He lies or denies knowing about stuff all the time. He's certainly a member of BRI and I'm sure he and his wife know exactly what's going on and have to have given permission.

That would be fine by me. Hell, I'd be fine with him using the Beach Boys name, if he puts his name in front of it (Mike Love's Beach Boys or something similar...).

The scenario in which some concerts feature Brian/Al/Dave and others don't will not work unless there are two different names.

FWIW. Bruce said years ago on the brit that they take bookings up to 18 months out.

Who knew April last year how the C50 was going to play out?

Good point.  Considering this is a South American date (and not your normal County Fair in Woodstock, Illinois)--a place the Mike/Bruce troupe don't visit often if ever at all, I can see them making the arrangements that far ahead. 

I think Mike would object.

It appeared that Mike always had a long term goal - to keep The Beach Boys alive and ongoing, well, forever. Despite the various configurations and lack of "Beach Boys", he's been able to accomplish that goal, mainly because of the use of the name. And, he did an admirable job backing it up.

Mike Love is now a 71 year old rock and roll singer. He doesn't have the appeal to attract an audience on his own. Actually, he never did. I think he, even with Bruce, would have a difficult time selling tickets.

I'm sure you know far more about all of this than I do, but I don't see how it's possible that Mike is making more from shows that generate $100,000 than shows that are generating up to $1,000,000.

2,000 capacity with an average of $50 a ticket is $100,000 20,000 capacity with an average of $50 a ticket is $1,000,000.

If Mike is really making less on this tour, he's getting screwed, especially since Mike and Brian are likely making far more than Al, Bruce and David and since you said Mike is making as much as Brian.

He's in control, there's smaller overhead, far fewer mouths to feed and people to pay off, he's the sole boss and takes a bigger cut. It's not hard to understand the appeal there for someone who has enthused about a "lean and mean" small touring band for... decades.

He may have kept the name and flame alive for all those years, but perhaps it's time to actually patch things up with his old bandmates instead of just saying so in interviews while doing shows as the sole founding member as "The Beach Boys" before more of them die. Now would be a nice time to put up with Al's "attitude problem" and only use the name when more of them are involved. It's cheapening the brand and spitting on all of the work they put in over the past year to go back to the county fair thing. Surely it's bad business as well, and if Bruce Johnston thinks the way to deal with the Beach Boys is to "talk corporate," surely they'd understand it. They need a new licensing arrangement that suits their higher profile now.

The expenses of this tour are probably twice of what a usual M&B tour runs....I wouldn't say he's getting screwed, he's probably just making less because of the expenses,  he has to share equally with Brian, and that Al/Bruce/David must be getting paid a little more than salaried members like in his own band.
Plus, he's getting the name out there, selling albums, getting the band far more visible than he could on his own....

Yeah, the expenses are probably more than twice that of a usual M&B tour and there's a bigger backing band, but these shows are also generating anywhere from 5x-10x more money at the gate alone based off attendance and ticket prices.

The reunion shows aren't all in high-capacity venues, though.  Quite a few of them are in small venues of less than 3,000 seats.  The ticket prices aren't any higher in the small places than in the larger ones.  The Beach Boys with Mike and Bruce only were getting some gigs in places where they were getting fairly high ticket prices.  They also played some relatively high-dollar private events. I don't know if Mike made more than he's making on the reunion tours, but I'd have to think he wasn't make much less.

Carl Wilson, to his great credit, had wanted the Beach Boys to tour far less, and when they would come around, say every other year, they would play arenas, rather than fairs, etc. That didn't come to pass and the brand was stretched thin. The Beach Boys aren't some pathetic Motown act hanging on struggling for gigs. There are five alive and able to perform and put on an amazing show, TRULY. Their show now easily trumps McCartney''s by now rote Mitch Weissman act. I'm not saying that this lineup should tour as long and as frequently as Mike does -- but this should be "The Beach Boys" from here on out. It shouldn't go out having "some guy" singing their classics with one or more original members. They should end it unified. Mike himself told me that Joe Thomas putting this year together was nothing short of impossible and that he couldn't imagine anyone else having what it takes to do so. I asked him about the thought of having a Joe Thomas-type IN HOUSE working within BRI to do so. Mike admitted he hadn't even thought of that. They should go out an institution. The Beach Boys are synonymous with Elvis, The Beatles, The Stones and Motown. Except BRI has never been developed to operate on the same level as Apple, EPE or The Who's Trinifold -- which is a shame and the reason why a discussion like the one we're having is even able to occur.

Yes, but only by demented, narcissistic, self-important druggies WITHIN Rock and Roll...not with the public at large.

Part of the problem is the big money that Brian and Mike were getting from record royalties no longer exists and hasn't for years due to free Internet file sharing.  They can't live on their old records like the used to. Both Brian and Mike live expensive lifestyles. They also have seven children each and grandchildren.  Touring revenue is their most reliable income.  Since Brian can't and won't tour that much, it's up to Mike to keep money coming in.  I don't blame Mike and Brian if they have Mike touring without Brian and calling it the Beach Boys.  If people going to shows aren't up enough on the Beach Boys to check whether Brian and/or Al is with them on a particular show they want to see, I'm not sure they're the type of fans who will be missing Brian much, anyways.

 
Yes. This is it, they are writing the last chapters in everybody's books here and they managed to turn what might've been an excruciating, embarrassing-even-to-the-fans ordeal into an exciting, proud, often sweetly melancholic crazy group ritual and public outpouring of love and goofiness. They are somehow managing to pull it off! It should go out this way with the group together again.

I still think these guys have too much debt and too nice a lifestyle, not to mention a gazillion kids (and Brian's last two are still babies), for them to stop touring in some form or other.  They should perhaps allow all three guys to tour under a Beach Boys type name separately and have geographic territories.  That way, there could be Mike Love's Beach Boys Coupe De Ville, Al Jardine Beach Boys Extravaganza, and a Brian Wilson Beach Boys' Genius tours. 

I like this.

The Mike N Bruce Hot-Rod Revue

The "Keep It Clean with Al Jardine" Band

The "I'm Not A Genius, I'm Just Brian Wilson" Show.

I reckon if Brian said "hey, you know Mike I have never been to Peru.  You mind if I tag along too? Those Peruvians aren't going to believe how great we sound for a couple of 70 year olds" Mike wouldn't say no.

I'm just looking forward to seeing Mike in one of hand-woven Peruvian hat things with earflaps.

Don't sweat the small stuff and enjoy what we have (which is far more than any of us could have dreamt of a year ago).

I think Brian would do okay financially without anyone touring under the 'Beach Boys' moniker and thus generating income. But then again, I'm not an expert in these things.

The money has never been in record royalties.  Songwriting income is a bigger cash cow than touring or record sales, and the Beach Boys material is still covered and used in movies all the time.  The hit songwriting members of the band are probably not suffering for cash flow.  But the larger point is totally accurate -- that touring is a big source of income and it would be a hardship to just give that up.

Songwriting is tied into recording sales, though.  The less you sell, the less you get.  Songwriters get more than performers who don't write songs, but they're all getting pieces of the same pie.  Licensing fees for an appearance of a song by the Beatles is astronomical, but I'm not sure about the Beach Boys.  The reason artists have made the fees for soundtrack appearances go higher is because they know that they won't be getting much sales from people buying soundtrack CD's.  If revenues weren't a problem people wouldn't be saying that touring is now the most important part of band revenues.  At least that's what industry people claim, anyways.  Getting a few soundtrack placement fees doesn't make up for the fact that a hit album like TWGMTR now sells less than 100,000 copies on average.  Spotify only pays fractions of pennies for plays so it's getting harder for everyone and that's why guys like Bon Jovi are on endless tours. 

I love Mike but if he booked these shows while still on tour with Brian it shows a serious lack of class

Still reading Rolling Stone ?

you'll never learn.

Old habits die hard, don't they?

HEy..Charmin 2 ply is cheaper.

At this time, south america it's not anymore a secondary market... remember Rock in Rio, many official DVDs filmed in the region, Roger Water's 10 shows in Buenos Aires, Paul McCartney are doing shows here in 2010, 2011 and 2012.

Maybe still we aren't on europe and north america level but today we are important for most of the artists. We need The Original 50th Anniversary Tour, not the Bruce and Mike show, that's a wrong move for the Boys.

Cash from 60plus Meet and Greets must be a tidy sum, regardless of Mikes percentage.

I hypothesized awhile back that Mike could potentially make less money on a reunion tour than he does on his own. In his own operation, he takes the money off the top and everybody else gets paid salary. He doesn't split the money with the other members of BRI. He only splits the licensing fee with the members of BRI, which is just a small percentage of total proceeds. And even that small percentage is shared equally by Mike as well.

Nobody apparently knows what the financial structure is on this reunion tour, but one has to assume it isn't set up for Mike to get everything off the top and only pay everybody else salary. I would imagine Brian and Mike and possibly Al as a member of BRI each split some money off the top, and everybody else is paid salary. And yes, the overheard on this tour is way larger than a Mike/Bruce tour.

I don't think Mike is literally losing money on this tour, but he might make less personally touring in 2012 than he did in 2011.

As I mentioned in another thread, the booking of non-reunion shows and all of those types of scenarios had to be known to all parties when the tour started. The only unknown was how much blowback or bad publicity Mike would get for going back to his own version of the BB's. Doing the reunion was a big thing for Mike to put himself out there to do, because he's basically re-reminding people of what the "real" BB's should look like, and his own BB's-Lite with two actual BB's and a smaller backing band may be judged differently now, at least in some quarters.

We need to remember that if/when the Mike/Bruce show gets back on the road it will return to the type of venues and towns where they always played...it's not going to create the same type of hype as this current tour.  The media attention will subside to almost nothing and Mike/Bruce can glide across the US with relative easy without having everyone breathing down their necks about not having the reunion lineup up there.  You know how it was before the tour when people still showed up to Mike/Bruce shows and people would also show up to Brian shows?  It'll be like that.

It's just a small minority of fans that care that much.  I checked out the Brian Wilson board and it has some comment but not that much.  I hadn't been on that site in a while and it's amazing how much negativity there is among some of the Love and Mercy set.  It's not the Mike stuff that surprised me as much as some of the nasty things said about Jeff Foskett.  Really?

:lol, also David Marks and the Marksmen.

Uhh...so, I'm typically not the biggest Mike Love apologist, but I'm pretty much in a bit of a words battle with some know-nothing a**holes in the comments section of this RS article.  I'm defending Mike against comments that are basically summed as follows: "Mike Love is a greedy, talentless, Brian Wilson hating D-Bag"

If anybody wants to help me out over there with, oh, I don't know, logic or reason, I would appreciate it.

Mike Love is like a corporation. I'm sure he and his team of accountants knew exactly what the bottom line was going to be with the reunion tour. And, you can be sure that, even though his "take" might be less than the Mike & Bruce shows, he will write off every little thing imaginable, including Brian's massage therapist for his aching back!

IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO .... I think Mike would settle for a smaller cut (how much smaller, I don't know) to continue touring with Brian Wilson and maybe - MAYBE - Al and David, too. Actually, I can't see a scenario where Brian would stay on board but Al and David would not.

For all the complaining, drama, and anger... wow, they are out there this week performing "Our Prayer." Let's keep this all in perspective, I guess. I take back my idiocy!

I definitely agree it's a bit of stirring the pot on their part. "Gee, we better make some drama over an obscure South American show..."

SPECIAL ADVICE FROM BRIANS COUSIN EDDIE WILSON

(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f232/Rackafratz/EddieWilson.jpg)

Well, I guess I'd wade into this discussion. Firstly, I gotta say, none of us really know what is going on behind the scenes, but I will say it seems odd that Brian seems like he has happily returned to being a full-time Beach Boy, while Mike and Bruce seem eager to get past this "artier" tour and get back to the "meat and potatoes" county fair circuit. Wouldn't it be a shame if we didn't get a new Beach Boys album and possibly even more shows from this lineup because once again Mike put what he thought to be commerce ahead of art. However, if Brian is actually cool with the Mike and Bruce show doing these shows while the full, real group isn't out there then its fine.

However,I personally think that as long as Brian wants to keep The Beach Boys active as a recording unit that the touring group should accordingly be Brian (if he wants to tour), Mike, Al, Bruce, and David. I'm sure the guys are doing pretty decently on this tour, and if Brian wants to put out a new Beach Boys album every one or two years, then Mike should treat the band like an ongoing artistic group and not a jukebox touring revue. Just my opinion though.


On nearly everything else you are spot on, but that statement bugs me.

Ugh, the David Marks cheerleading is kinda getting outta hand. Show stealing? I don't know about that. And that coupled with the back-handed compliment to Al ("...finally learned how to work a crowd..."), it's getting old.

The Mike & Bruce Show immediately hitting the road right after the C50 shows just doesn't feel right. 

 It's like if they had stuck Do It Again (2012) on the album right after Summer's Gone.

I agree that sounds dubious to me... but it's possible that part of the difference is because of the way the tour is scheduled, with weeks off in the middle.  Are Mike and Bruce actually playing fewer shows than they normally would in a summer?

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I don't know if it's getting old or not. Is saying that something's truly great and cool and unique a thing that gets old on a Beach Boys message board for people that not only own So Tough -- but DISCUSS IT??? I also don't know if you've managed to see for yourself any of the reunion shows where David Marks is blowing the crowds away on every number he's featured in. Do you actually disagree with that??? I'm I imagining that??? I also don't know if you can recognize the clear and distinct difference between Alan Jardine in the 1980's and '90s, who was often distracted, disengaged, pissed off at his wedge monitor and the sound mixer -- because that WAS the demeanor of the guy you see singing his b alls off, clapping, grinning, and kibitzing with fans onstage now.

If he booked them at a time when the reunion was absolutely positively going to end by late September, then there's nothing untoward about it.

Brian wanting to continue on after that appears to be a case of him changing his mind.  And the problem is, there's an awful lot of stuff you'd have to rearrange for a Brian Wilson whim.

I'm sure the South American promoters would like the idea of getting the full band if they're available now -- but can they afford to cover flying twice as many band members down, and all the extra expenses of five rock stars rather than two?  Would they get a big enough crowd to support it?  If they did, would they have to break their contract with the venue they'd booked to go to a bigger one?  And are the backing band members even still available, or do they have other commitments?

The important thing, though, is that this doesn't actually preclude the full band doing another leg of their tour a bit later on...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I think David is absolutely awesome, but I don't think he's a showstopper. Nobody I saw at my show was "blown away" by David Marks. He was solid, just like the rest of the band, and they put on a great show. But nobody especially stood out. I mean, obviously I paid a bit more attention to Brian, since he's Brian, but regardless it took all five Beach Boys plus the sidemen to make that a great show. But seriously, he played some great guitar at the show I saw, and I definitely enjoyed watching him. But it's not like I heard anybody after the show saying, "hey man, you know that David Marks, he kicked ass." Or even, "hey that dude on guitar was really good." But if you'd hear some of the people from the David Marks admiration society on here, you'd think that the legitimacy of the reunion and the reunion shows boils down to him. I find it off putting, because, while I feel the man deserves praise for his work, it feels like it's being piled on a bit more by a certain few because maybe they've written a book on him or have gotten to know him and have found out he's a great guy. But it kinda strikes me the same way a parent would tell people how their son won the little league game for his team, failing to mention he was actually just a relief pitcher for two batters in the seventh inning. The kid contributed all right, but the parent kinda stretched his role.

Overall, I just kinda find it insulting to Mr. Marks. It seems like all the praise now is trying to make up for the lack of it from '64 til now.

So what if it is?

There's also a real possibility here that Brian is playing his own game. He is, if nothing else, a master of passive aggression. I think he's come to realize -- after a decade or more of supposing otherwise -- that he could be a Beach Boy. And not just any Beach Boy, but the linchpin of the band again. Sure, it might not be for long, but for another few years at least. And this article -- and conversations like the one he had with Ray Lawlor -- might just be the way he's sending his signals now.

Given the BRI has to vote to award Mike the license, Brian's feelings on this matter are indeed important. If I recall correctly, there are four voting members of BRI -- Mike, Brian, Al and Carl's estate. The vote on the license has so far been 3-1 (with Al being the 1). If it's 2-2, that changes matters rather radically.

This.  Big time.

Agreed, I am tired of people not respecting Al, though David has been a great addition to the tour.

That's cool if you wanna spend the show watching Brian.

The concerts I went to all had people saying things like, quote, "David is the only Beach Boy that actually worked on his craft all these years. Can you imagine if the Beach Boys had a great guitarist all this time, Imagine what that would've done for their music?" and "Did you notice -- barring Bruce's 3 minutes for 'Disney Girls' -- David is the ONLY audible instrument from the front line in the house mix?" and "What a tone on this guy!" and "Without David, it's just like a souped-up 1985," and on one occasion, "Is that Brian Wilson or a sad panda?"

David brings the cool, the history and the chops.

While I'm not going to pretend to know all about the finances of this tour, I do know for a fact that some venues (a number of the casino shows) the band is getting a flat fee to play. This is regardless of how many tickets are sold. The band then gets the merch take minus what the venue gets (usually 10 percent). While the overhead, I agree, is more on this tour, remember that for a lot of shows, the venue puts the band up in hotels ( depending on what the contract is) and supplies food and beverage. The Beach Boys are commanding a much larger fee to play compared to just Mike and Bruce, so for these shows, I am willing to bet that Mike is making more. Again, I can't speak for every show on this tour and every venue.

David is a great asset to the group and a marvelous team player.

Showstopper is an overstatement, but then we divert from the topic.

Dave and Al have both been tremendous on this tour.  No disrespect to Howie because he deserves a lot I wouldn't use show stopper either,   but Pet Sounds for example really really exceeded my expectations. I never really cared for the song but hearing the band and Dave do it live especially Dave's guitar really changed my outlook on it! This is just one example of Dave adding to the show instrumentally and vocally I love his Getcha Back and ya the BB haven't had a great lead guitarist since a younger Carl Wilson. By the late 90's Carl's leads were not quite the same.
I feel like Al hasn't enjoyed performing this much with the BB since sometime in the 80's.  He did have a noticeable change in demeanor somewhere around the beginning of the cheerleaders for a variety of reasons  (with the the exception of the box set tour) You got the happy Al touring solo and this has carried over into the BB.
As for the South American fiasco I'm not sure what to think . I can't believe Mike would be so willing to go back to him and Bruce like that but who knows with these guys?!?! I hope something cool and positive emerges after this tour . An arrangement that allows the guys to be comfortable, sounds as good as this tour, and doesn't tarnish the legacy. This tour has helped to erase some of the tarnish crap off the silver of the BB legacy that had been building up for awhile.

I totally agree with that statement.

Small but salient point - the original cut-off for the C50 shows was mid-August.

True, but a handful posting here - no names, no pack drill, but see where my eyes rest... -  have a more informed handle on events than the majority of other posters here do. Listen to these people, should they elect to speak.

I know David is not insulted by the fact that some people are enthusiastic about his work and take the time to say so freely. Not in the least. He's surprised that after all of these decades of being relegated to the "a quick fill-in" for Al" guy...that a growing number of people now finally understand he was one of the original Beach Boys, a significant part of their genesis, and are happy to see him back. He's appreciative and would never be insulted by getting a little extra credit, its been nearly non-existent for him until now.

I think it might be a little early for the David Marks-is-getting-too-much-praise Police to swoop in and keep things from tilting into an overly friendly David direction. I'm like falling out of my chair laughing at this! The guy is wrongly described as virtually meaningless to the Beach Boys history by nearly every journalist, Beach Boys book, rock bio, documentary, and fan for 40 plus years...and now a dozen people on a message board are psyched and giving him big props and its just too much praise to handle. Insulting even.  :lol

I can remember when I began to toss the idea of writing a book about David around about eight years ago, and a very important Beach Boys insider, who still works for the BB's operation heard about my plan...and said to me, "what do you want to write a book about that loser for?" I tried to explain that he wasn't a loser, but actually a really intelligent guy who was a great musician, and had done a lot of cool things in his years away from the Beach Boys...have you heard "I Wanna Cry"? The Moon LP's? Colours?  Anyway, the person blew me off, didn't want to hear about it, like so many people did for years and years and years when they heard the name David Marks. Like they knew something, because they had swallowed a myth and were comfortable with it. I knew my hunch about him was right when i talked to Brian and Al and Mike about him seven or eight years back. They all credited him more than anyone with a faulty Beach Boys education could handle. They were not being insulting, just truthful.

My positions regarding Dave have nothing to do with the fact that "maybe I've written a book about him"...the book is a result of learning a new perspective on an old story, and one that brings more truth to the history. That chicken came after the egg. I've been consistent for a long time. I'm happy Dave is getting some praise this year. He's appreciative of everyone who has said nice things, and he's working hard to do his best, and won't be insulted if you call him a show-stopper. He'll just grin and say thank you.

Nice Reply, Jon. 

When I saw the band in Cincy a few weeks ago, both the person I was with and I couldn't stop talking about how much David Marks added to the show. I constantly found myself watching him and being amazed at just how cool he is on stage. He's mellow and laid back, and yet brings a great energy and some kick-a** solos to the show.  Having him up there playing those early surf and car songs brings a certain level of authenticity to the tour that I don't think would be there if David weren't present. 

Rock on, David Marks.

Jon--  Small thought/question: have you had a chance to speak again with "the insider" in the years since, and has their opinion of Dave changed?

I often wondered when Al started touring a few years ago with Brian, that maybe at that point, if he stayed a change in the licensing of the names "The Beach Boys" was needed, and I don't think many would have complained if Brian had at that point reclaimed the name and legacy for himself. I could imagine Carl's estate going along with this too, but again, its all speculation on our parts.

I really think we just need to focus on the positive though, here and now and let the future take care of itself. I still am just so happy that I get to see this The Beach Boys show in Sydney and pray everything holds togther until then, and to be honest, little stories like this scare me, in that it does feel "the pot is being stirred". You just dont want anyones feelings/ego's getting hurt and thus jeapordising what we now have.

I must say though, I have always been happy seeing a Mike & Bruce Beach Boys show. The sound and quailty honestly surprised me by how good it was (even after being spoilt with Brian's band), and as some-one here already posted, for the vast majority of the "lay" fans, they really don't know or care about the intricacies of the tour line-ups. Its sad,but Mike has already proven that. You need middle aged white guys in hawain shirts and if the sound is there, then that is good enough, and let's not forget its Mike's distinctive lead vocal that distinguishes alot of the big hits.

 I think he has done a great job of keeping the "brand" out there and earning money. Let's not forget this is the only life Mike has known, he obviously love's it, and has been doing this since (taking the band out performing as lead man) 1964 with Brian's blessing. And at the end of the day,he is promoting the beautiful music of Brian & the Beach Boys, so where is the harm? Please let's not begrudge him and just celebrate what we have now. As others have said, this would not have even had happened without Mike sacrificing ALOT. Though I think they are all heroes doing the tour.Anyway, thats my 2 cents.

Ryan

Sorry if this has been linked elsewhere but this seems to me in direct reply to yesterdays hoopla concerning this. And it promises a new live album/dvd (thankyou GOD).

- http://www.billboard.com/news/beach-boys-talk-another-album-together-1007435152.story#/news/beach-boys-talk-another-album-together-1007435152.story