Rolling Stone on the Mike/Bruce South American Shows

[EgoHanger1966]

I refuse to believe Mike is "making less money", that is almost impossible

It's really not if you think about it. Let's not count the matter of paying backing band, crews etc...that just complicates things. Plus,we have no clue on the actuallity of money matters. But as a best guess, Mike stands to make the most money when the divide is split up for the M&B shows. I'd be willing to wager that he takes more than Bruce in that situation.

With the 50th, you have five major players. The divide has to be split more evenly. I'm not saying all 5 BBs make the same amount (could be possible, but is Dave really pocketing more than Brian?), but even with 5x the profit, he might still be making less than he would where he's the main player.

[Justin]

This is the deal: Mike can't -- and shouldn't -- have it both ways. For as long as I (or any journalist) has been talking with him, he's been pining for Brian's return. It's been a benchmark of every interview he's given over the past decade -- even during the most viscous of legal disputes against his cousin and his management. Well, in 2012 Mike finally got his wish -- he got Brian back. True, the new LP is devoid of any true Wilson/Love collaborations, but Mike has Brian back -- along with show stealing David Marks and a revitalized Al Jardine, who's finally learned how to work a crowd and enjoy performing during his long hiatus away. Regardless of having the best sounding shows since '74/'75, amazing attendance at credible venues, a Top Three album, major press by every respected outfit across the globe, Mike Love is losing money. In addition to losing money, he conceded a massive amount of power to Melinda Wilson. We all joke here about how and when they'll f uck it up -- THIS is how. Now, I could be wrong, these could be a few one-off shows in-between further plans TBA -- but Bruce Johnston has been (almost gleefully) quite vocal about this scenario since BEFORE the tour even started.

The bottom line is this: In the "modern age" the Beach Boys have never been cooler, more relevant, sounding better, more respected than they are now. If Mike wants to blow this and go back to being a scaled back carny band in secondary markets for the extra few dollars and head cheese position, he will never be forgiven. If this thing ends with Mike Love rejecting Brian Wilson and the quality of the combined band they've assembled now for something LESS, his place in history is sullied forever.

I agree with the rest of your post, Howie, but I think your last statement is a little too end-of-the-worldish.  

The logistics of all this are much more complicated than just Brian staying on.  Part of the reason Brian is loving this tour as much as he is, is because it's his band up there supporting him.  That won't necessarily be the case when the Mike/Bruce show rolls on.  Darian and company are loyal to Brian and don't go where he isn't.  So how do they coordinate Mike's band vs Brian's band?  The only way would be to do short mini tours with each group.  Mike and Bruce sail on with their show and every few months they regroup the Reunion band (with Al and David) every so often.  Basically, whenever Brian's resting up...Mike and Bruce do their own thing.  

But to expect this current band to freeze and stay exactly the same and only have Brian come in whenever he wants...ain't gonna happen.  Once Brian leaves, the domino effect will start and the roster will change signifiantly and that doesn't make it easier for Brian to come back.  

[AndrewHickey]

Well, if your priority is employing Tim Bonhomme and Randell Kirsch over your incredibly successful renewed collaboration with one of the greatest artists recorded sound has ever seen, go for it! But expect people to bitch. Especially with reports of Brian enjoying himself, wanting to continue this, and declaring the SA stuff "news to me."

Possibly, just possibly, Mike (or his business people) consider honouring business agreements they've made a priority. For a touring band like the Beach Boys (either line-up), a lot of people's income depends on them keeping to their commitments -- band members, road crew, promoters and so on -- and, yes, it *would* be wrong to renege on a deal that had been made with them, that they were counting on. and that they may well have cancelled other work for.

Likewise, with the talk of rescheduling or postponing -- how do you know that the rest of the band could make it? Probyn, for example, said in that interview that got discussed a lot a little while ago that he'd committed to the tour when it was far fewer dates, and that he was missing his family. *Since* that interview, the tour has been extended by another month. It may well be that no matter whether Brian, Al and/or David want to continue touring with this line-up, that period of time is simply not possible for this band.

None of us here know anything about this other than what was stated in the initial report -- or if someone does know they're not saying so -- and while that's the case, what on earth is the point in assuming the worst about anyone involved?

[ontor pertawst]

I like how everyone assumed they had to wrap up by such and such a date due to Brian not wanting to tour for very long, based on Bruce Johnston's statement. Now we know what he really meant -- they had Mike and Bruce shows planned much closer than seems wise that Brian had no idea about... and as noted, he did seem pretty damn gleeful about returning to.

If they were so honorable about living up to their contracts, perhaps informing Brian Wilson of their plans would've been a good idea too? Of course, in the whimsical world o' Wilson, he may have been told directly and in countless unread communications and was off thinkin' about string or Spector's version of Zip a dee doo dah instead. Or just didn't want to deal with it in public when asked and feigned ignorance.

I wonder what the real story is, it's super fun for all of us to speculate of course. Someone should blame Al Jardine right about now just for kicks.

[Wah Wah Wah Ooooo]

It's all Alan Charles Jardine's fault

[Ziggy Stardust]

Obviously Brian had no clue, no this does means it was prepared without him, like, i mean, it's not him not wanting to tour or whatsoever! which is good news, hopefully they'll keep touring once in a while all together, as for the albums he seems to want to make some more so yeah.

[Wirestone]

I refuse to believe Mike is "making less money", that is almost impossible

It's really not if you think about it. Let's not count the matter of paying backing band, crews etc...that just complicates things. Plus,we have no clue on the actuallity of money matters. But as a best guess, Mike stands to make the most money when the divide is split up for the M&B shows. I'd be willing to wager that he takes more than Bruce in that situation.

With the 50th, you have five major players. The divide has to be split more evenly. I'm not saying all 5 BBs make the same amount (could be possible, but is Dave really pocketing more than Brian?), but even with 5x the profit, he might still be making less than he would where he's the main player.

Bruce is a salaried employee. He is essentially a backup band member. Mike is the only member of BRI on his tours.

[Cam Mott]

I'm going to guess that this and maybe some other dates were booked before the Reunion became a thing [maybe last year] with different promoters and Mike's tour management etc. and Mike is going to honor that committment with what was booked ie. his pre-reunion licensed band. Or maybe not.

[Howie Edelson]

Not less money than his cousin, but less than on his own.

The band is not paid equally on this tour, nor is this a BRI operation.
The tour is being operated by 50 BIG ONES productions, which is Brian, Mike and Joe Thomas.

Regarding the South American dates, this reunion has been slowly coming together since last fall. Not that it really matters, but do you believe that dates would be locked down, money gets cleared and the promoter/venue/artist WAITS NINE MONTHS to announce a performance??? I've never heard of that.

This is what I think: I think Mike is having a blast doing the tour, enjoying most of the things we're loving about it, but having just interviewed him at length, he feels that although sounding incredible, the "production" and number of musicians is gluttonous (my word) and prefers a seven-man band. I personally don't think he appreciates having to do ANY aspect of his job by committee -- which despite getting Brian "back" and becoming somewhat of an A-lister in the Rock world again -- is a hassle to how he operates (again, my words). I credit him TREMENDOUSLY for taking the hits he had to take to make this tour happen. He is the hero of this tour. He truly put his money where his mouth is. BB 50 has a long way to go. Rather than focusing on what will happen afterwards, the key members of this band should finally work on the infrastructure of their company and how to keep this thing viable, high quality, and ongoing. With Capitol being eventually meshed with Universal, things will start changing regarding their back catalogue. Now isn't the time for anyone in this band to be thinking about quick cash -- this is rounding third. BRI should finally learn from its past and be thinking bigger and well beyond simply an album, a tour, and a TV show.

[Cam Mott]

Wow, Mike holds the license but the tour is Brian's. He should be up for a Noble Peace Prize this next round. Mike that is.

[Justin]

This tour was almost perfectly designed to be a "one time thing." 

[ontor pertawst]

And Summer's Gone was going to be the last Beach Boys song ever. With Brian having fun, you want them to stick to both? They need to revisit this licensing issue and involve a squadron of lawyers, tho. With Capitol involved again and a helluva lot more press, the game needs to be upped while there's still time to play it.

[Sheriff John Stone]

After the South American dates, the state of The Beach Boys - touring, recording, marketing, etc. - will again be determined by what Brian Wilson wants, not Mike Love. It was that way, it is that way, and it will always be that way. Once Brian and hiswifeandmanagers decide what he wants, work will begin to make that happen. If Brian wants the touring Beach Boys to continue the way it is now, it will continue that way. If he doesn't, it won't.

[Wah Wah Wah Ooooo]

After the South American dates, the state of The Beach Boys - touring, recording, marketing, etc. - will again be determined by what Brian Wilson wants, not Mike Love. It was that way, it is that way, and it will always be that way. Once Brian and hiswifeandmanagers decide what he wants, work will begin to make that happen. If Brian wants the touring Beach Boys to continue the way it is now, it will continue that way. If he doesn't, it won't.

Spot on. Yes.

[Emdeeh]

Has anyone got objections with Mike and Bruce doing side tours under their own names, when the real Beach Boys aren't touring? Mike's even got his own website now, a good place to plug solo -- er, duo -- shows.

[KittyKat]

I don't believe Brian didn't know about the South American dates.  He lies or denies knowing about stuff all the time. He's certainly a member of BRI and I'm sure he and his wife know exactly what's going on and have to have given permission.

[EgoHanger1966]

Has anyone got objections with Mike and Bruce doing side tours under their own names, when the real Beach Boys aren't touring? Mike's even got his own website now, a good place to plug solo -- er, duo -- shows.

That would be fine by me. Hell, I'd be fine with him using the Beach Boys name, if he puts his name in front of it (Mike Love's Beach Boys or something similar...).

The scenario in which some concerts feature Brian/Al/Dave and others don't will not work unless there are two different names.

[Pretty Funky]

FWIW. Bruce said years ago on the brit that they take bookings up to 18 months out.

Who knew April last year how the C50 was going to play out?

[Justin]

FWIW. Bruce said years ago on the brit that they take bookings up to 18 months out.

Who knew April last year how the C50 was going to play out?

Good point.  Considering this is a South American date (and not your normal County Fair in Woodstock, Illinois)--a place the Mike/Bruce troupe don't visit often if ever at all, I can see them making the arrangements that far ahead. 

[Sheriff John Stone]

Has anyone got objections with Mike and Bruce doing side tours under their own names, when the real Beach Boys aren't touring?

I think Mike would object.

It appeared that Mike always had a long term goal - to keep The Beach Boys alive and ongoing, well, forever. Despite the various configurations and lack of "Beach Boys", he's been able to accomplish that goal, mainly because of the use of the name. And, he did an admirable job backing it up.

Mike Love is now a 71 year old rock and roll singer. He doesn't have the appeal to attract an audience on his own. Actually, he never did. I think he, even with Bruce, would have a difficult time selling tickets.

[startBBtoday]

Not less money than his cousin, but less than on his own.

I'm sure you know far more about all of this than I do, but I don't see how it's possible that Mike is making more from shows that generate $100,000 than shows that are generating up to $1,000,000.

2,000 capacity with an average of $50 a ticket is $100,000 20,000 capacity with an average of $50 a ticket is $1,000,000.

If Mike is really making less on this tour, he's getting screwed, especially since Mike and Brian are likely making far more than Al, Bruce and David and since you said Mike is making as much as Brian.

[ontor pertawst]

He's in control, there's smaller overhead, far fewer mouths to feed and people to pay off, he's the sole boss and takes a bigger cut. It's not hard to understand the appeal there for someone who has enthused about a "lean and mean" small touring band for... decades.

He may have kept the name and flame alive for all those years, but perhaps it's time to actually patch things up with his old bandmates instead of just saying so in interviews while doing shows as the sole founding member as "The Beach Boys" before more of them die. Now would be a nice time to put up with Al's "attitude problem" and only use the name when more of them are involved. It's cheapening the brand and spitting on all of the work they put in over the past year to go back to the county fair thing. Surely it's bad business as well, and if Bruce Johnston thinks the way to deal with the Beach Boys is to "talk corporate," surely they'd understand it. They need a new licensing arrangement that suits their higher profile now.

[EgoHanger1966]

Not less money than his cousin, but less than on his own.

I'm sure you know far more about all of this than I do, but I don't see how it's possible that Mike is making more from shows that generate $100,000 than shows that are generating up to $1,000,000.

2,000 capacity with an average of $50 a ticket is $100,000 20,000 capacity with an average of $50 a ticket is $1,000,000.

If Mike is really making less on this tour, he's getting screwed, especially since Mike and Brian are likely making far more than Al, Bruce and David and since you said Mike is making as much as Brian.

The expenses of this tour are probably twice of what a usual M&B tour runs....I wouldn't say he's getting screwed, he's probably just making less because of the expenses,  he has to share equally with Brian, and that Al/Bruce/David must be getting paid a little more than salaried members like in his own band.
Plus, he's getting the name out there, selling albums, getting the band far more visible than he could on his own....

[startBBtoday]

Not less money than his cousin, but less than on his own.

I'm sure you know far more about all of this than I do, but I don't see how it's possible that Mike is making more from shows that generate $100,000 than shows that are generating up to $1,000,000.

2,000 capacity with an average of $50 a ticket is $100,000 20,000 capacity with an average of $50 a ticket is $1,000,000.

If Mike is really making less on this tour, he's getting screwed, especially since Mike and Brian are likely making far more than Al, Bruce and David and since you said Mike is making as much as Brian.

The expenses of this tour are probably twice of what a usual M&B tour runs....I wouldn't say he's getting screwed, he's probably just making less because of the expenses,  he has to share equally with Brian, and that Al/Bruce/David must be getting paid a little more than salaried members like in his own band.
Plus, he's getting the name out there, selling albums, getting the band far more visible than he could on his own....

Yeah, the expenses are probably more than twice that of a usual M&B tour and there's a bigger backing band, but these shows are also generating anywhere from 5x-10x more money at the gate alone based off attendance and ticket prices.

[KittyKat]

The reunion shows aren't all in high-capacity venues, though.  Quite a few of them are in small venues of less than 3,000 seats.  The ticket prices aren't any higher in the small places than in the larger ones.  The Beach Boys with Mike and Bruce only were getting some gigs in places where they were getting fairly high ticket prices.  They also played some relatively high-dollar private events. I don't know if Mike made more than he's making on the reunion tours, but I'd have to think he wasn't make much less.