The Smiley Smile Message Board

As a long time fan i always wondered why people seem to dislike Kokomo so much ?
I know it's not a top 5 BB song but it is definetly in the top 10.
Is it because Mike wrote it and Brian wasn't involved?
Do people have that much hatred for Mike ?
I mean the song went #1, so someone please tell me ------ Why do People hate Kokomo so much ?

Partly, yes.


Yes.


Debatable.

Not sure myself.   I found myself "trained" to hate it too but only realizing later that it's a ridiculously catchy song.  Perhaps the 80's production and its use in that movie didn't help matters.  

Well, Full House was pretty awful. That's enough to destroy any song, really. It still has a seriously catchy hook, but a patina of moldy mildewy cheese that puts some people off thanks to that whole era.

As to hatred, yeah, how could anybody get mildly annoyed at Kokomo and it's auteur when he said stuff like "He’s a paranoid schizophrenic, and he feels guilty because he cheated me out of millions of dollars and credit for for things. His ego was distorted at the time that he couldn’t come to grips with the fact that there was a catalyst necessary to bring out the greatness in him. It was me with the concepts and Brian with the music, and that’s where the strength lay. I am always into the concept and the lyrics and the rhymes and things that encompass a lot of meaning…mean one thing to someone who is eight years old and something completely different to someone 28 years old. I am always thinking of those kinds of things when I am writing a lyric – same as I did with Kokomo, which was No.1 in 1988, whereas Brian’s solo album came out and didn’t have one hit record on it."

Hit single dick swinging contests are pretty easy to get annoyed by, hmm?

Beach Boys' fans hate it because:

1. Brian had nothing to do with it.
2. It went to #1 at a time when Brian was supposed to shine with his new solo album/career.
3. Mike mentioned No. 1 every time he talked about "Kokomo".
4. Mike takes more credit for the song than he deserves; see John Phillips.

The reasons why most die-hard fanatics hate / don't like "Kokomo" have (almost) nothing to do with it being a #1 song. And why shouldn't we be able to hate something that was successful?

Also, "Kokomo" among the 10 best BBs songs? What..?  :o

I like that song very much. It's great, catchy and full of nice vocals. The only downside it has to me is that the Beach Boys (mainly Mike) tried afterwards to reduce themselves to these kind of thematic styles

It was on "Full House"?

Because it's not very good.
If it's 'definitely in the top 10', then that would make it better than most or all of, off the top of my head, Good Vibrations, God Only Knows, Surf's Up, Wonderful, Let Him Run Wild, Don't Talk, Sail On Sailor, All This Is That, Forever, This Whole World, Til I Die, Still I Dream Of It, Airplane, Please Let Me Wonder, Don't Worry Baby, Darlin', Warmth Of The Sun... that sounds frankly insane to me.

It's a mediocre song, performed by people who sound bored while they're recording it. It probably wouldn't be hated at all if it weren't on all the hits compilations and played at every gig, in the same way Barbara Ann would be much better regarded if it remained as an album track.

Personally I don't hate Mike at all. But Kokomo just has none of the things I like in a piece of music about it.

Plus, I think the world stood up as one and felt a bit cheated when they woke up from the dream and realized there really WASN'T a place called Kokomo. We staggered around for weeks afterwards nursing hollow, empty feelings. A deep cultural malaise set in, also known as the 90s.

It's the 1 song that shows that the Beach Boys didn't need Brian... so people were against it from the start.  Also it's a complete abandonment of the progressive sound that they flirted with in the 70's, so most people see it as a step back into their cliche.  

I like it though.  Great song in every way, well written, well recorded, well sang, and catchy.  

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I don't think it's a great song; I think it's a good song, though.

Mike did contribute a catchy hook. Carl's vocal is tremendous. A lot of people like the tropical feel of the record. It made for nice radio music. The song could be enjoyed by both kids and adults. The sax solo is acceptable.

If "Kokomo" had Brian Wilson listed on the credits ANYWHERE, this song would be viewed in a completely different light.

As a new member, I want to make clear where I stand on this touchy subject: I love Kokomo. Always have, always will. The first Beach Boys song I heard (I was eight years old), and it still makes me feel good. When Carl comes in with the "ooh I want to take you" -chorus vocal, the hair on my arms stand up, and they never lie.

I think hating Kokomo is getting just as old as hating Mike. it's not even that cheesy as people think. It continues the glorious BB-tradition of listing exotic places (Surfin' USA, Funky Pretty, Hawaii, anyone?)

The only good reason for hating Kokomo I can think of is the fact the band started to chase hits with similar songs, only worse, and this resulted in Summer in Paradise. But then again, the band had already been artisticallly dead for quite a few years anyway.

I would have thought that it sounding unpleasant to my ears was a good enough reason...

^Pretty much sums it up.

The picture, I meant.  I wasn't fast enough  ;)

Brian Wilson: "I thought Kokomo was really great."

haha very nice Lobacca...I think you've got it.

Funny how none of these issues actually have anything to do with the music.  I think people's hate for this song is more superficial than people actually realize.

Supposedly from time to time Brian still laments about how he missed out on being on that record.  

Well, of course a lot of people's disgust is superficial. You tie a good song to a crappy commercial, more than a handful of people are going to gag. You throw in muppet baby maggot children and Stamos lip syncing to Kokomo on teevee, you'll get a similar reaction from people with opinions they can't wait to share on the internet.

I think for me it was being taken by my father inexplicably to watch that movie the filter won't let me type in without misspelling horribly about mixed drinks... and being disturbed by Tom Cruise's ferret-like features that poisoned me on Kokomo.

Somehow this childhood trauma did not affect my appreciation of Michael Caine.

Stamos likely made me like the song MORE, when I was a kid I really liked Full House and saw the Beach Boys on there.  I liked it. 

I'm also not the type to grow up and turn my back on the things I loved when I was younger.  It's alright to like John Stamos.  Really.  It is. 

I like saying his name, I'll grant you that. John Stamos. It has good rhythm to it. JOHN STAMOS! All of my life I've managed to avoid John Stamos, and this weekend I get to see him twice in as many days. Hopefully this will increase my chances to say...

JOHN STAMOS!

The reason John Stamos gets off the hook for me is he doesn't take himself anymore seriously than anybody else does.  He's simply a b-list actor from the 90's and he knows it. 

And, I'd love to know the real story on that one. Brian has stated that he was called AND he wasn't called....I also read that they only gave him a few hours "to report" to the studio for the vocals. I also read Brian (or Landy?) say that they had a prior appointment and couldn't make it.

Regardless of the musical merits of "Kokomo", it is one of the most important releases in the group's financial career. It's not quite on the level of Endless Summer, but that song brought many, many new fans to the group. They milked the popularity from that song for quite a few years.

Bless you, Ron!

I think the strangest thing about it is that VDP was involved but not Brian. But then, I guess it's just the sort of thing you'd expect to happen in the tangled, gossipy history of the Boys!

Cue the private plane story.

Yes, he does. Brian's about success and approval, after all. "Kokomo" is an okay pop song, with Carl's vocals being the highlight. I used to listen to it quite a bit during some hot summer a while back. But still then not as much as to the 60's/70's classics. "Kokomo" not only isn't in the same league as the cream of the Brian era, it's not even competing in the same game. But it's a nice enough pop composition, I'll give 'em that. John Phillips knew how to write a song. Same as Scott McKenzie and Terry Melcher. (And Mike, of course. But it's not like he sat down and wrote "Kokomo" all by himself in a couple of minutes or something.)

And for those who think there's no place like Kokomo: click (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kokomo,_Hawaii).



P.S. Nelson Bragg with a straw hat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0daYUiC8SD8  ;D

Ah, but specifically not one "off the Florida Keys." My eyes still burn from the tears I shed over this.

Kokomo, Indiana, tho. That must be a helluva town.

As far as I know Brian was called, but Landy didn't want him to participate.

I still think Phillips or McKenzie or whoever got it from that old Chuck Berry song. Has there ever been a definitive story about the title? Oddly enough, I don't think Mike ever claimed it. :police:

I actually really like Kokomo, and agree with Sheriff's suggestion that had Brian been involved in the writing of it, it would have a much better reputation.

I recently discovered that it was actually John Phillips of the Mamas & Papas, plus Therry Melcher, that originally wrote the song. I always assumed it was the Beach Boys sans Brian.

Edit - sorry, already mentioned above.

Not one thing mentioned there has anything to do with song itself or the performance. IMHO, if anyone hates the song for any or all of those reasons, well, nevermind, I'll just piss off too many folks. All I will say is that it was a Number One song that if nothing else has a terrific chorus by a terrific singer and band. It is now 23 years old and when performed in concert, still gets a great reaction from the audience. So, it has stood the test of time and most folks still want to hear it and act favorably to it. Of the hits released, yes it is in the Top 10, Brian's involvement or not.

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I just think its okay, I never play it and there's at least 250 Beach Boys songs i'd play over it.

 :lol This.

Lowbacca killing it in this thread.

I hate Kokomo.

That being said, I know every word and if it ever comes on the radio or at a grocery store or somewhere I always have fun singing along with it.

Aaaaaaruba, Jamaica, Oooo..... etc...  ;D

Brian likes Kokomo, you should too.

Brian likes Norbit.  ;D

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Great song. I like anything put out by TBB or BW or AJ Or ML. With all of them, there are some songs I like better than others. If people want to dislike somebody, don't dislike the guy that kept the name alive for all these years.

Did Mike Love really have that much a part in writing it?  I always thought that Papa John wrote most of it.

I think Mike obviously wrote some of the verse, for instance the "We'll float out to sea/and we'll perfect our chemistry/by and by we'll defy a little bit of gravity" is vintage Mike. 

Terrible Beat.
John Stamos.
Most Music from the 80's is Terrible anyhow.

Not gonna lie, I really dug it when I saw them do it live on the current tour.
I know I'm not supposed to.  ::)

I think Chicks really dig it too. 

I was working at a design firm, where there was a bratty young designer that tried so hard to rule the joint, and tended to speak for everyone. Yet, he got so many things wrong so often in his attempts to be cool. (No, "Cabron", is not a warm, brotherly Spanish term for your buddy, for example.)

He knew I liked the Beach Boys, and so he kept blasting this stupid parody of "Kokomo" called "Camel Toe".

Then he kept looking over at me to see if he was pissing me off yet, because, I mean, when you are so streetwise and dig stuff like Manic Street Preachers, why not bag on the BB fan over there?

But I wasn't bothered in the least; he had no idea what the BBs really were or why I liked them. He looked so frustrated that I wasn't sputtering and fuming.

Cabron!

It's a great tune for what it sets out to be - killer vocals, catchy hook and just enough cheese to reel in the music buying public.  "God Only Knows" it ain't, but if you take away all of Mike's over-the-top boasting and the politics of the situation, you're left with a pretty darn good tune that deserves it's status in the Beach Boys canon.

The main reason is that hardcore fans live their lives expecting that the BBs be famous because of their darker, artsy stuff. It's a way of validating themselves, I think. And then they score a huge hit with a pseudo tropical number about beaches. Hence part of the hatred. A similar reaction occurs when they put some surfboards onstage, or sing about cruisin'.

Validating? Hmmm, that might be true for some, but that sounds a bit dismissive.

In my case, SMiLE was my gateway drug into the BB world. I thought the earlier stuff was OK, but the stripey image and Be True To Your School had scared me off for years. Then SMiLE blew my mind, and my BB interested began to radiate out in all directions from there. Suddenly, I "got" Pet Sounds, and even the earlier stuff. I had a harder time getting into the later stuff, but still, I kept finding enough of the tidbits that got me interested during my initial SMiLE phase that I kept--and keep--listening. (Oh yeah, and I was late to the Dennis party. That really helped too!)

That said, I do enjoy Kokomo, though that sax solo hurts a little. Gotta love those vocals.

For some reason I just think of Kokomo as a completely different entity than THE BEACH BOYS. I might be crazy, but it doesn't even really sound like a Beach Boys song. I don't mind it, I certainly don't hate it, it's just in my bottom tier of Beach Boys songs.

I think there's some embarrassment over it as well. We all view the Beach Boys as a serious band that put out great material throughout the 70s, but there's a stigma attached to Kokomo where casual fans or non-fans will kind of laugh at the Beach Boys and then mention Kokomo.

Kokomo was never a gateway to the Beach Boys for me, it was probably the last of the hits that I ever heard and I was born in 1986, so it probably shouldn't be that way. My first Beach Boys "album" was a mix tape my father gave me, then their first greatest hits CD and another generic best of. Hell, I'd even heard all of Holland before I ever heard Kokomo.

And I like John Stamos!

One thing I found interesting about this thread is that many people seem to make the assumption that if a song is popular, it must be of a good quality.  It is not too important who was and wasn't involved. If I look at it just as it is,  Kokomo is a just plain bad song. Terrible production, uninspired melodies, and insipid lyrics all make this in the top 10 worst bb songs.

Mike Love, is that you???

It's interesting you would mention that. When I used to DJ, people of all ages would come up to the DJ booth and ask, "Do you have any Beach Boys?" Well, of course I did! So I'd say, "I have "Surfer Girl" if you'd like to slow dance with your honey". Or, I'd sometimes go deeper with, "Did you ever hear the song "Forever". It's a great slow dance song".  Sometimes I'd pick it up a bit with "Surfin' USA" or even "409" - you could actually fast dance to them!

But noooooooooooooooo! Usually, the person would say, "Can you play "Kokomo"?  >:D

I have these critical faculties whereby I try to distinguish between good things and bad things.

it sux

there is nothing Beach Boys about it. Even their surf image is californian, not caribbean/latino...
Redeeming factor is Carl sings on it.

Haven't you heard? Critical faculties, or any kind of discernment between things of different quality, are the signs of a 'hater'. Apparently 'haters gonna hate'.

But I like "Hawaii", "San Miguel", "South American", "Little Pad", "Diamond Head", "Mexican Girl", "Anna Lee The Healer", "Sumahama" and "The Private Life Of Bill And Sue".  :-D

Don't let them do that.  When they laugh say "Yeah, dont' you love that song?" and see what they say. 

It currently is my 10 year old son's favorite song! He keeps asking if they will play it when we see them next week! Being it is his and my daughter's first concert I am keeping all songs a secret from them! They love the Beach Boys!!

Hey, that's what I like to hear.  Awesome!

Top 10 for what, though?  If you're going for an art-oriented top 10 like that, there's no room for "Fun Fun Fun" or "I Get Around" either.

And there's always been two different Beach Boys -- the definitive sunshine-life pop-rock band and the spine-tingling artists.  Neither one of those is an embarrassing thing to be -- and "Kokomo" is a pretty damn good example of the former, IMHO.

And it's the fact that we're currently getting concerts with nearly a full top-10 from your list and a full top-10 from the "I Get Around"/"Fun Fun Fun"/"Surfin' USA"/"Little Honda" Beach Boys which blows my mind!

Cheers,
Jon Blum

When Kokomo first came out, I was eating lunch at a restaurant. I hear this tune on the sound system (Aruba - Jamaica- ooo I wanna take ya), and I think 'wow, that kinda sounds like the Beach Boys...what is it?' Of course, when Carl's lead kicks in, I got real excited.

At the time, I had no idea whether Brian was involved, or John Stamos, or whoever, only that it was a catchy tune.

Total agreement with those who believe that the song wears the albatross of a Mike Love formula, but at the time I heard it I loved it for what it was. And I plead guilty to feeling a little squeamish about it for the reasons cited, but at the end of the day - it's a good tune ding dang it.

John Philips brought the song to Mike and he digged it but the lyrics were way out there (yet another JP song about heroin addiction - no way Al would sing it) so he thought he would make it more of a boy/girl type of thing and you know what...it became a number 1 record.

Note: Mike also gave Paul McCartney the idea about singing about all the girls in the Soviet Union for Back in the USSR (a california girls type thing ya know) but doesnt like to talk about it.

Note 2: The Beatles wrote a tune called "Happy Birthday Mike Love" which is probably their greatest song. Mike doesnt like to talk about it though.

Note 3: Paul McCartney said that "God Only Knows" is the greatest song of all time which is important to mention over and over as the Beatles are a far superior band to the Beach Boys. The Beach Boys dont like to talk about this quote though.

Note 4: Did you know Al Jardine brought the song Sloop John B to Brians attention? Al doesnt like to talk about it.

Kokomo non-withstanding (I happen to LOVE the song) why all the Stamos hatred though? Really?

He played Uncle Jessie (like any of us would turn down a lucrative gig on a sit-com if it was offered us), he's a great looking guy! Still handsome as hell in his, what 50's? He plays bongos in the Kokomo video?

OK, some of that stuff might be annoying, I suppose. But getting the Beach Boys in as guest starts on two different TV shows, certainly shows he CARES deeply about the band. Sucks that this had to happen in the 80's, but the shows worked for their time and place. He also sang Forever on a top rated show on national TV back when most of us here had no idea the song even existed. That's some OSD style cred right there......

Because ....


























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..

IT SUCKS!




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:pirate :h5 :rock :happydance :woot :thumbsup

I didn't know anything about Mike or Carl or Brian and who you weren't supposed to like back when it came out. I was a kid. I just knew I didn't like the song. Mike's voice (or "that guy that sings the first part") creeped me out. He sounds creepy. And again, I didn't know it was Mike Love or that he was the great villain. I didn't know about Brian not being there. I didn't even know there WAS a Brian. Carl's voice almost saved the song for me.

I can remember babysitting and asking the little girl what her favorite song one, and it was Kokomo. And my reaction was, "Oh...okay then." Yeah, I didn't like it. That said, it's catchy, and the harmonies are kind of cool. I liked the George Harrison cover that came out around that time: I Got My Mind Set on You." At least it had some self-awareness about being cheesy.

"Kokomo" kind of exists separately from the Beach Boys, in my head. I heard it all the time as a youngun. When I got into them much later, I obviously knew it was the same band that did "Kokomo", but it almost didn't even occur to me at the same time. That coupled with the fact that "Kokomo" really doesn't sound a thing like the rest of their material or anything I think of when I think "The Beach Boys" (and being primarily written by non-Beach Boys) just makes them separate entities in my head. When I think of their career and albums, I generally don't even remember "Kokomo" unless some outside force reminds me.

The song is okay (and has some nostalgia attached to it for me, personally) when you don't take it too seriously as being a big ol' slab of 80s cheese. Honestly, I don't know how seriously they even took it back then. A huge hit for them, but you watch the video and I don't get the impression of anyone there thinking, "This is serious art. This will go down as a classic song." Not even good ol' Dr.Love, really.

Still. Top 10 of their career? To each his own, but you crazy, d00d ^_^

To be honest, I was in the marching band, and the performing band way back in Elementary and Junior High School.  I always liked the sound of a Saxophone.  I played Clarinet, I fell in love with nearly all of the woodwind and brass instruments.  The solo on Kokomo is pure cheese of course, but in general I do enjoy listening to a Saxophone. 

BTW what about an Alto Sax?  Really awesome sound. 

That's strange that you enjoy the sound of an accordion, but not a Saxophone?  Do you have any bad experiences with Saxophones or something? LOL (Outside the Kokomo solo, lol)

That makes a lot of sense.  Basically the sax ruins the song for you... don't feel bad, I have a complete aversion to certain songs just because of memories they evoke or something too, it happens. 

The sax is what does it for me, as well. It seems like every cheesy song in the 80s had a sax solo.

I don't care that Brian wasn't involved. Brian wasn't involved with Feel Flows - I still love it because it's a great song! Likewise Viggie (just to stem any anti-Mike sentiments). I personally don't hate Kokomo, but it is, at best, average. Carl's vocal is gorgeous, without it the song would be nothing. The sax solo makes me want to vomit. It's far from my favourite Mike vocal performance. 'Definately in the top 10'? Seriously? I can think of at least 100 BB songs that i would class as superior, 150 even. Kokomo is just, kinda... meh.

I don't get why "Kokomo" would destroy their image, at that point they've been representing their early surf image on stage for at least 7 years and recorded cheesey songs like "California Calling", "Wipe Out", "Some of your Love" and "Kona Coast". Beeing born in the late 80ies and growing up in the 90s there was still a huge 80s influence in Austria so I really like some 80s music, movies and yeah even that talking car. That might be a reason why I don't dismiss something like "Still Cruisin'", "Make It Big" or "Crack at your Love". I still consider the 80s a low point for the Beach Boys but I enjoyed "Kokomo" as a kid and still like that song.

Didn't he do part of the backups (specifically the 'white puffs' part)?

Not but seriously, not hate for Kokomo for me, i kinda caught myself singin' it sometimes,
but seriously ? in the top 10 Beach Boys songs ? what is wrong with this board.


It is what we call a commercial formula.

delete

It's in the top 10 because it was a significant and meaningful hit for the band well past when they'd been basically written off as an oldies nostalgia act (as if there's really anything wrong with such a thing). I don't see any big deal that Brian wasn't involved, other than his feelings being hurt. At that point the band had several fantastic songs under their belt with little or no Brian involvement. The track is insanely catchy. I still don't quite understand how something so simple as the drums coming in for that single hit before the chorus is so damn appealing, but it is, and the Beach Boys career is rife with such instances. The lyrics might be corny, but they are nowhere near as lame as say, Kona Coast, or as creepy as Roller Skating Child or Hey Little Tomboy. Mike sounds great in his medium tenor voice for the verses, and of course Carl kills on the chorus. Those voices and a catchy song with just the right (if yes 80's: but hell it WAS the 80's) production had spelled hit after hit in the past and here it did it again. The song is something to be proud of by all involved. I consider it way less dated and cheesy as some of the more "serious" and introspective/earnest or "hip" or "fun" hits of that year like:

"Hold On To The Nights," Richard Marx
"Groovy Kind Of Love," Phil Collins
 "Anything For You," Gloria Estefan & Miami Sound Machine
"Get Outta My Dreams, Get Into My Car," Billy Ocean
"Roll With It," Steve Winwood
"Every Rose Has Its Thorn," Poison
"Seasons Change," Expose
"Baby I Love Your Way/Freebird Medley," Will to Power (GAG)
"Could've Been," Tiffany
"Never Gonna Give You Up," Rick Astley (If Astley can be awesomely cheesy, so can the Beach Boys)
"Hungry Eyes," Eric Carmen
Bad Medicine," Bon Jovi
"Don't Worry Be Happy," Bobby McFerrin
"I'll Always Love You," Taylor Dayne
"Endless Summer Nights," Richard Marx
"Naughty Girls (Need Love Too)," Samantha Fox
"Foolish Beat," Debbie Gibson
"Tell It To My Heart," Taylor Dayne
 "Shattered Dreams," Johnny Hates Jazz
 "She's Like The Wind," Patrick Swayze & Wendy Fraser
"Make It Real," The Jets
"Waiting For A Star To Fall," Boy Meets Girl
"Hands To Heaven," Breathe

See, The Beach Boys kicked everyone's ass that year, IMHO!

(though there were some great songs that hit big that year)

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Why did you post the lyrics to "Heart Songs" by Weezer.

"I Can Hear Music" has no Brian involvement. I bet he's not on "Only With You" either.....

An interesting thing happened at the concert I saw in Vegas: Brian looked like he was playing and singing along with "Kokomo" at the start of the encore set and just suddenly STOPPED. It creeped me out actually. Other than that incident he seemed okay.

Kokomo is alright. I liked it when it came out, I was happy when it hit number one and I think it is ok now. But it's undeniably cheesy and there is no doubt that, well-crafted though it be, it was and is one more nail crucifying the Beach Boys career to a cross.

OK, that is  pretty bad metaphor, but I hope you know what I mean.

You could seriously write a book about this.

What is the difference between California and Florida?

I don't hate 'Kokomo'. It just doesn't have much to do with the Beach Boys that came before it, and it's success is partially responsible for everything that has been 'wrong' with the Beach Boys after it.

The real question is, 'What is wrong with Summer in Paradise?' Without 'Kokomo', there would have been no SIP.

It's sort of like a Beach Boys parody, dressed up for the '80s and on a tropical vacation. The problem is it's very catchy and the song itself is good.

Subsequently, it seems that Mike Love and Terry Melcher decided it would be a good idea to formulate a series of recordings that were all dolled up in the same packaging but without any of the musical appeal. The Beach Boys went along with this because 'Kokomo' was so successful.

So it kind of created a new 'industry' for the group, partially replacing the old one. This new industry was one in which Brian Wilson was an optional, disposable participant, and Mike Love assumed a true leadership role.

Remnants of this industry remain in the Beach Boys' world, and when it comes out here and there, it kind of makes certain kinds of fans a little uncomfortable.

Without "Surfin'" there would have been no SIP either.  Is that a reason to despise "Surfin'"?

Cheers,
Jon Blum

That is one very long way... you're taking things too far here, Donny was actually very correct.

Hardcore fans' hatred towards Kokomo is similar to their hate for surfboards onstage, or new attempts at beach imagery. They think that the BBs should be massively appreciated for the darker stuff they dig, but they aren't. Kokomo is the nail on the coffin of fans' last hopes for massively validating their tastes. It's a reminder of who the BBs are and what they're about. And many people can't get over it.

hA, there is my Lenny! hat3rsz gna h8 mah boi!

Also, it's not a very good song.
But it was better than some of the other stuff on the radio at the time. I'll say that for it.

I say it's not worse than Help Me Rhonda.

Wait, what? The Beach Boys were basically never about "tropical" feel-good island music about vacations and "getting away from it all" before this. If you go to the stereotypes about the band - no cars, no surfing, no expression of anything profound, no girls, not even anything about California. It's just "Hey, let's get totally shitfaced and sunburnt in a "tropical paradise" and listen to Jimmy Buffet all day." What Beach Boys song prior to that expressed such things? How was it a reminder of who they are and what they're about?

Kokomo, a real return to their roots, classic Beach Boys stuff man.

...in that they are a beach-loving harmony group to the eyes of the record-buying public.

Kokomo actually sounds like a Beach Boys song, or to put it another way - Joe Public's perception of what a Beach Boys song sounds like.

No, maybe a lot of the earlier work everyone associates as being "The Beach Boys" isn't EXACTLY about the topics Kokomo touches on... ...but I have to admit, Kokomo doesn't seem like too much of a stretch.

How long a way can it be, when "Surfin'" is on the actual album?

Seriously, it's silly to bash either song because of what came later.  They're pop songs, not harbingers of future doom...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Kokomo is not a return to roots, had the song been about california life it woulda, but its not. just ML perverted view on what the group was.
+ I dont dig this band for their surf stuff, Pet Sounds to LA Light period for me. I can enjoy a few early cuts now and again.

lol at anyone taking the "return to roots" comment seriously, wow man.

Of course they were.  To all their landlocked fans in Salt Lake or Des Moines or Chicago, the Beach Boys were massively escapist.  California might as well have been a far-off tropical paradise to them.  The songs were selling their life as one big summer vacation.

More specifically:  "Hawaii".

Cheers,
Jon Blum

The former point makes sense (although I still don't understand why the public would think "Kokomo" was the quintessential Beach Boys song in any way - it sounds and feels nothing like their other songs, to me), but "Hawaii"? "Hawaii" is 90% about being a snotty little bitch who brags about how good a surfer he is (or about surfing in general) and maybe 10% the other stuff. Still. No tropical drinks melting in your hand, no steel drums, no "feel good island music" vibe, etc. etc. etc.

I've always skipped over this track, as only since i have become a member of this forum have I begun to examine the 80s beach boys contributions under greater scrutiny. It always pissed me off that this is the first track to come up on youtube when you type in 'Beach Boys' and the 80s production is easily enough for a '91 born muso-snob me to turn my head away from.. but since i've read this thread, I'VE REALIZED THAT I LOVE KOKOMO, I LOVE IT ALRIGHT, I THINK CARL'S VOCALS TURN IT INTO ONE OF THOSE SPIRITUAL BEACH BOYS MOMENTS.

Great bass vocal hook? Check.
Heart-wrenching chorus melody? Check.
Lovely Carl Wilson vocal? Check.
Beautiful chord changes? Check.
Wall of harmonies? Check.
Escapist lyrics? Check.
Not just your average rock instrumentation? Check.

...sounds like a Beach Boys classic to me. And hey, even GOK almost had a sax solo in it!

8===>  ?  Check.

Ok, with all this out of the way, is it time to start a thread called "Why No Love for Still Cruisin' (the song)?" ;D

... and I can go into a stirring defense of "The Monkey's Uncle." I BET IF BRIAN WILSON HAD A CREDIT ON IT, YOU GUYS WOULD LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE IT!

I always wish Getcha Back was a bigger success at the time, Brian's falsetto, although a bit odd is a great throwback to the classic Beach Boys sound.

Nah, I think a lot of hardcore fans are totally cool with the beach and car thing. Really, the California lifestyle/fun-in-the-sun, whatever you wanna call it. But then you get into the vacation-on-a-tropical-island and chilling-out-in-a-retirement-home-in-florida vibe, and that's a whole other thing entirely.

It's not about 'dark artistry' vs. lightweight lyrical topics or beach imagery.

WOAH, hey ... "Help Me Rhonda" is a high-point in '60s LA pop, "Kokomo" is ... ugh ...

Without milk, there would be no cheese.

The Hawaii thing was touched upon here and there, but generally in a sort of tiki/cocktail jazz kind of way ("Diamond Head", "Busy Doin' Nothin", "Let's Go Away for Awhile", "Little Pad"), or a straight up California surf version of it ("Hawaii", "Kona Coast").

And Hawaii is not Florida or the Caribbean. Totally different scene.

It's just not a particularly good song and a perfect example of a band sounding less "with it" as a result of trying to sound more with it but it is nevertheless a highlight from that era.

Typical Lenny post.

Brilliant 60s pop single versus "pretty okay", dated 80s tropical cheese. Same thing, y'know. ^_^

That was a shitty thing to say.

Nawww, I think he was just kidding with 'im.

Right?

I did not say it's better. I said it's not worse.

Help Me Rhonda is a classic notwithstanding its song value. So is Kokomo.

California Girls is a high point in 60s LA pop. Help Me Rhonda was a great sing along #1 smash.

I love the Monkey's Uncle !

You're right, it's not worse. It's much, much worse.


The one problem there is that Kokomo is not a classic.


Yeah, Help Me Rhonda is not as good as California Girls. But then again, Kokomo was far more worse than Rhonda than Rhonda is worse than California Girls.

Kokomo will be riding the airwaves long after you and I are gone, my dear.

Musically or lyrically there's not much to Rhonda; great arrangeent and vocals, but then... Can't see why it should be regarded much higher than the K song.

(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/21379114.jpg)

+2983198491284

Nah, I'm thinking "Which early songs would be shredded if they'd first been recorded by Mike in the '80s?".  "Little Honda"?  The Beach Boys were never about product-placement sell-outs!  "Farmer's Daughter"?  C'mon, what does that have to do with the LA teenage lifestyle?  "Why Do Fools Fall In Love"?  It's all about retro covers these days, not original songs!  Etc etc et bleedin c...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Point is that it's not everyday-life-for-teenagers-in-California, which is what people were trying to limit the Beach Boys scene to (specifically to exclude Kokomo).  It's about a frickin' vacation to someplace exotic, which is what people were complaining about Kokomo being.

And the point remains, for the millions of people around the world listening to these songs who weren't living in LA, the whole California thing was a massive escapist fantasy too.  So of course they don't think that Aruba, Jamaica is that different from surfin' at Del Mar or the Ventura County line, or anywhere else on their way to sunny Californ-i-a.

Plus, of course, God forbid that guys on the far side of 40 have a different take on fun-in-the-sun than teenagers do...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

If it dwindles in radio play any more than it has done in the last twenty years, I'd be afraid to imagine what you think my life span will be. Because it was a hit by The Beach Boys, I can't imagine a world where it never gets played at all. It's more likely it will be played seldomly (kind of like now) but if current airplay is any indication, it will more than likely be reserved for the Beach Boys remembrance shows, 80s pop remembrance shows, or the Worst Songs of All Time lists that Kokomo often makes it way onto.

At any rate, I can't imagine "Classic" rock radio stations actually play Kokomo and since its central audience at the time was the Lite-Rock dump for trying-to-be-trendy 60s artists (cue those classics - Joe Cocker's Love Lifts Us Up and Aaron Neville's Don't Know Much) who quickly moved on to the next thing, I'd hardly put much faith in your predictions.


Precisely because it has great arrangment, vocals, and don't forget melody. It's not shlocky pap made by over-the-hill artists still trying to act with it and failing at doing so. I'd say that explains the distinction.

Except a crucial difference is that the Beach Boys construction of California played heavily into the American Dream mythology which was very much about a Westward expansion into some kind of perfect paradise. I think, at least subconsciously, it was that that made the band so interesting to listeners outside of California - because, for a while, they so captured the packaged image of America that had been sold to the country for years. That's something altogether different than singing about Aruba, Jamaica, which was just kind of a thing to do in the 80s - island songs were "in" and that was it.

Sorry, mate -- when I grew up in Maryland listening to Endless Summer, I wasn't thinking "oh yes, Westward expansion, these hot rods clearly represent my manifest destiny".  The appeal's way more basic than that, and not so strictly focused as to exclude Kokomo -- the whole fun-fun-fun in the sun-sun-sun bit was part of the package whether they were singing about Del Mar, Salt Lake City, San Miguel, or Honolulu.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

You're living in a very different world from me -- I'm in Australia at the moment, and MusicMax (the VH1-alike channel that's on constantly at my gym) has had "Kokomo" in heavy rotation as part of their "top N songs of summer" playlist.  I've seen that frickin' video more times lately than I can count.

Don't worry, they play "Good Vibrations" too.  And occasional other Beach Boys songs for which they have videos, even if they have to be live concert versions from the '70s.  But "Kokomo" has already stuck around for nearly 25 years, it's a bit late to dismiss it as a flash in the pan.

Regards,
Jon Blum

Yeah, that's what I meant when I said "subconsciously." People don't typically narrate their subconscious.

I must because I don't see or hear it at all. And if they played Kokomo round the clock, and didn't play a fraction of a second of Good Vibrations I wouldn't lose any sleep over it so you can put your "Don't worry" to rest.

And people don't typically think "Kokomo" isn't a proper Beach Boys song.  Consciously or subconsciously.

They don't rule "Barbara Ann" out either.  Fact, they were a couple of the band's biggest hits, despite neither one being about the SoCal scene.  The world's collective subconscious is clearly entirely accepting of them.

Regards,
Jon Blum

They didn't have to all be about the SoCal scene because it was about what the band - The Beach Boys - represented. The Beach Boys had become a brand at that point and even when they were singing about Barbara Ann, they still represented the ideals of the American Dream.

Kokomo may have been understood as a "proper" Beach Boys song and, of course, it is (what else could it be?). But it was also recognized as being different from their 60s material, and it was appreciated by a different audience - even if it was the same people.

It's just a song.  A nice song with an interesting chord arrangement, some fun lyrics, good vocals, catchy tune. It doesn't mean anything one way or the other, like it, don't like it.  I like it, always have. It has a Beach Boys sound and a Beach Boys feel and when i coms on I always sing along.  I'm no purist and I've been listening for 50 years and will take it over a lot of the so-called artsy or dark stuff. If somebody doesn't like it, fine, but chill out. Nothing to get worked up about. Like I am.

I'm in the not-a-great-song-but-it's-catchy camp.   But I can't hate it.  It came out around the time i started junior year in high school, just coming off a summer full of drama with various boyfriends.  Something about the sound of the song was pleasant, like things were going to be better (and they were).  Also, considering that I was fairly alone in my hardcore-level Beach Boys fandom, it was nice for me to see an original song by my favorite band hit #1, and to see my friends dig the song. 

I always found the title unfortunate.  Kokomo, Indiana was the hometown of a boy named Ryan White, who was HIV+ due to a blood transfusion.  This was when AIDS was still associated with the gay community and drug users, and it was not fully understood that the disease could also be transmitted through blood transfusion.  There were people in Kokomo who thought that no "nice" person could contract AIDS, and Ryan and his mother were ostracized from their community.  This story got media attention either just before or after the song came out.

Who cares about Australians? "LISTEN TO SEELVAHCHEEAH AWN TREEPLE JHAY, LOIVE AT THUH WOIYALISS WHALL WE ROIDE AROUN' ON KANGEHROOS ALL DHAY. G'DAY MATE WITH SHRIMP ON THE BAH-BEE. COR BLIMEY, INNIT. PEEOUCH AND ACCA DACCA AWN TREEPLE JHAY LOIVE AT THUH WOIYALISS. SEELVAHCHEEAH SMEEASH HIT RAWK SAWNG FROM THE ALBUM DIORAWMUHR THIS EEIS 'TEEUNER IN TEH BROINE' AWN TREEPLE JHAY LOIVE AT THE WOIYALISS. NEEXT UP ISS WOLFMUTHUH AND THE VOINES FEATARIN CRRIG NICHOLS WHO IS RETAHDID OR SUMTHIN'. COR BLIMEY, INNIT. AWOH NOH, TUGGA CALL THUH PROIME MINIEESTTAHH TUGGA ITS TOIME FOR SEELVAHCHEEAH CONSUTS FEATARIN DANYUL JOWNS AND CREES OWANOANONW AND BEEEN AS WEEL AS STEVE UHHWIN WHO WAS STUNG BY SOME KANA FISH. COR BLIMEY INNIT. BETTAH GET THUH BOOMAHRANG, WEERE IN FOR A FOIGHT TUGGA. 'KOHKEHMO' BOY THUH BEEEACH BOIS ON TREEPLE JHAY. COR BLIMEY, INNIT. JUST SMASH HIT RAWK SONG AFTUH SMASH HEEIT RAWK SOWNG FROM THE VOINES FEATARIN CRRRIG NICHOLS WHO IS RETAHDID OR SUMTHIN' ENTOITLED 'TREEEEUH ASS THUH NOIGHT' OFF THEEAH SMASH HEEIT ALBUM BOLOGNIA OUTBEEACK STAKEHOUSE FEATARIN FAWSTUHS AUSTRAHHLIAN FUH BEEAH AWN TREEPLE JHAY LOIVE AT THUH WOIYALISS FEATARIN THEH SMEEASH HIT RAWK SAWNG ENTOITLED 'GET FRAY' BOI THUH VOINES EEN 'SPOOAWN AGIN' BY SEEALVAHCHEEAH LOIVE AT THUH WOIYALISS. COR BLIMEY, INNIT."

http://arkhonia.wordpress.com/2012/05/23/50-years-of-the-beach-boys-kokomo/

"Cor blimey"?  Struth, cobber.  You left out the Wiggles, too!

BTW, the Beach Boys would never make it on Triple J -- the J's all about yoof, y'know.  Triple M at the outside.  More likely 2WS ("Good Times & Great Classic Hits!")...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

...and Kokomo was clearly entirely compatible with what the "brand" actually stands for in practice, as shown by the way people accepted it wholeheartedly.

After all, Beach Boys country had already stretched from Hawaii to a sloop sailing the West Indies, with side trips to Salt Lake City and back-in-Louisiana-just-about-a-mile-from-Texarkana.  The Florida Keys aren't exactly a stretch from that.

In the end, you and I don't get to define what the Beach Boys stand for.  If we draw a narrow little box and say that that's the only proper Beach Boys stuff when the rest of the world isn't nearly so strict, our definition isn't actually binding on anything.  When the fly of our opinion meets the windshield of popular taste, one clearly comes out worse off than the other.

And at the end of the day, "the Beach Boys" is a big tent.  Their range is wide enough to include everything from "Chug-A-Lug" to "Child Is The Father Of The Man".  The world finally recognizes that these days -- people are talking about Brian Wilson's teenage melancholy and art in the same breath as "I Get Around".  And it's really ironic that fans who would scream blue murder if someone tried to define the band as only being the fun-in-the-sun mister-positivity stuff, are happy to play exclusionary games of their own...

Regards,
Jon Blum

Do they have flying cars all the way there in the 2040s?

Hey, I'm the guy who, in one of the SF novels I wrote with my wife, had them performing Hunt and Lane's reconstruction of "Smile" on another planet in a couple of centuries' time.  (It was 2001, we couldn't hope for anything better back then.)

But seriously -- it's happening, right now.  Read the reviews from Chicago, from the San Jose Mercury News, from all sorts of stops on the tour.  The highlights they cite put "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times" and "Please Let Me Wonder" right alongside "Help Me Rhonda" and "Do You Wanna Dance".  They're talking about Brian the visionary right up there with Mike the showman.  The revolution has happened, folks, we don't need to fight like we're losing...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

 :lol :lol

Not bad, but we're not poms, we don't say COR BLIMEY, INNIT - we say "HEY, YOU KNOW?" (pronounced "A YA NO" with an upward inflection at the end)

i'm an american and you either live here (hell yeah), say "cor blimey innit", wear hats and eat peppers, wear different hats and hate freedom, create anime, or live in an area highly populated by dragons.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41-06Z2dFRL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)

If you grew up in Maryland, why do you use words like "mate" and "cheers?"

Cheers, mate!

Cause I married a proper Aussie sheila nearly fifteen years back!

As Sherlock Holmes once said after impersonating an Irish-American, "I fear my well of English has been permanently defiled..."

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I figured why I dont like this song.

It sounds like the theme song of some caribbean cruise ship company. Beach Boys is not cruise ship music.

But, but.. i thought Lenny said it was the real Beach Boys sound ? i'm confused.

Typical Ziggy post.

Oh snap!!!!  :afro

Brian's 2 cents on "Kokomo" in 1998:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=aL5GnkWqO1k#t=140s

I remember reading a comment somewhere recently... It said something like, "how awesome would it have been if The Beach Boys got into acid like everyone else in the '60s?"

When The Smile Sessions was advertised as a legendary art rock album, the mainstream thought it was self-lauding. You show these people anything from those sessions, and they take it for granted as a few stoners following generic 1960s trends. They have no idea Brian Wilson practically invented the psychedelic genre.

It's going to be a long, long time until Here Today or Cabinessence get anywhere near the popular level of I Get Around or Surfin' Safari. Simply writing an article on a sacred cow group from fifty years ago and calling them geniuses isn't going to convince anybody that didn't already know it. Brian Wilson may as well have composed radio jingles with that kind of praise.

Every time you call The Beach Boys a surf band, another week gets added on until the day they become as credible as post-1965 Beatles.

That's a new fan's fantasy.
It ain't gonna happen. Ever.

I say just stick to the music and enjoy it. Let us not try to convert anybody into liking a singing group. It's not that relevant, really.

Wait, Brian likes "Kokomo"? That means that he must have produced it!

It actually sounds nice the way BW was playing it ...

The thing is, it's telling that he plays "Kokomo" after mentioning that he sometimes feels like life has been a rip-off.

I wholeheartedly disagree.  Among knowledgeable, musical young people, the Beach Boys are right up there with the Beatles.  So what it really comes down to, is the common casual music fans.  Who, by the way, really don't care or know that much more about the Beatles than the Beach Boys barring the Beatles were this super great group in the sixties. 

i.e. Check out this review by Pitchfork, last paragraph.

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/11667-smiley-smilewild-honey/

It's a nice song and track, but the production is very much of its time. IMO, if Kokomo had somehow received a full on 1965-66 BW style production, including a little of the 'darkness' that often meant, and had been co-written by BW, it might have been regarded as a minor classic.

And yeah, Carl's lead vocal on it is just incredible and gets me every time  :) .

Ah.  Well, clearly a whole stack of reviews talking about Brian Wilson's melancholy genius are outweighed by a comment on a web posting somewhere.

"Smile" isn't mainstream, but the Beach Boys' artistic side does not equal "Smile".  Now that "Pet Sounds" is up there with "Sgt. Pepper" in best-album polls, it's safe to say they've gone beyond the stereotype.

The artistic tracks don't need to be "as popular" as Surfin' USA to be recognized, any more than "I Am The Walrus" needs to be on the Beatles' "1" to be significant, or any of the tracks on "Exile on Main Street" needed to be as big a hit as "Satisfaction".  These things are still recognized.  We can be secure in that now!

Cheers,
Jon Blum

What do you mean, "No Love For Kokomo"?  I'm pretty sure Love is the one singing lead.   :lol

I'd love nothing more than to believe your thesis, but it doesn't square with my experience with the man on the street at all. I live in Hampden, Baltimore's most hipster-infested neighborhood, and sure, THEY will have heard of Pet Sounds for sure, and possibly Smile, Surf's Up, etc. THEY will know that there is a man named Brian Wilson, and they might treat the body of work seriously. MAYBE one in 5 of them actually like the music, but at least they will respect it.

But I'm telling you, go ANYWHERE else, where square people live (that is, normal people that make up 99% of the population and fuel nearly 100% of the economy), and you'll be lucky if they've heard of Pet Sounds or Brian Wilson. The Beach Boys for them are fun, fun, fun and Kokomo. Period. They WILL have heard of Sgt. Pepper, and they WILL have heard of I Am The Walrus, and they WILL assume that later Beatles' music is considered progressive, world-changing, and flat-out good.

No scientific data to back any of this up at all, so attack away. It's only my experience. I bring up the Beach Boys in conversations fairly often.

I've mentioned this a bunch and this seems like a good of a place as any.  Brian famously didn't perform on Kokomo, BUT, when the Beach Boys appeared on Full House... Brian showed up for the tapings, and there's a scene where they're talking to DJ or something in the house, and they sing a little preview of what they're going to play that night.  Brian sings the falsetto part of it, instead of Carl.  I always thought that was kind of shitty, Brian showed up and stole Carl's thunder!

The live Full House performance of "Kokomo" is brilliant on Brian's part. He's singing the highest part early on, and then again later. Both parts go something like, "BERMUDA, BAHAMA, COOOOOME ON PRETTY MAMA... DUH DUH, DUH DUH, WAAAA DAH DAH dah... dah..." especially the first one.

I think the reviewer was narrow minded giving Smile Smile 9.5 and Wild Honey 3.5

I can agree to Smiley being up there for its sheer uniqueness and also I think the score was influenced by the knowledge that there was no SMiLE album to rate higher at the time of writing that review. Wild Honey is not as strong as Smiley Smile imo because of a few filler tracks like 'Mama Says', but should still be over 7.0

Kokomo is on my top 20 or top 30 of best BB-songs.

The second greatest performance of the song was the cover done on the Muppets tv-show.

Not to mention its brilliant Christmas spin-off.

That's below the belt!  :'(

I think (certainly at the time of it's release) that Kokomo's success represented the triumph of Mike's vision of The Beach Boys, and the total annihilation of the pioneering, artistic side of the band. It's perhaps wasn't quite as fatal as all that: certainly Brian's efforts in the last 15 years or so have brought the latter back into view for a new generation of fans. But that song and what it represents within the history of this band make it very polarising.

I think as well that because it's so closely associated with yer man on the street's view of the band, it makes a lot of hip people feel a little embarassed about saying the BB's are their absolute favorite band.

I don't like Kokomo because it represents, to me, yet another chance for the Beach Boys to have their entire career re-evaluated by the public at large...and they blew it.  Just like in 1967, 1976, and 1997.   Yes, it was a #1 song, yes, it made tons of money, and yes it's not a bad tune.  But, it basically gave dismissers of the Beach Boys an enormous stick with which to beat the band.   From Pet Sounds onward, every member of that group, including Mike, desperately wanted to be as "hip" as the Beatles.  Just look at the way Mike dressed in the 1970's and 1980's, like he was trying too hard to be with the times, so much so that any snapshot of him from any year, other than the SMiLE shots from Amsterdam in 1966, makes him look ridiculously dated.  Ironically, Brian is the only one who really never seemed to care about anything but the music.

Kokomo was a huge opportunity.  A hit single which, it it had somehow been stitched to Brian Wilson's solo album, perhaps as the leadoff track, would have made that album possibly the best selling album of the 1980's.    Overnight, that band would have regained a lot of its former prestige and glory.    But no.  They did one single, cemented their perception as being a good-time bubblegum group from the 1960's that got lucky once again, and even worse, they slapped Kokomo onto "Still Cruising" with a couple of new songs and a few oldies.  K-Tel couldn't have done a better job! 

I can also give some anecdotal evidence regarding how the Beach Boys are perceived. Generally Indie/Rock music fans in their 20's and up know about Pet Sounds/Smile/The Genius Of Brian Wilson. They've been practically spoon fed a steady diet of that since the 90's. The trouble is there's not that many of these people....Hip Hop/dance pop is way more prevalent in our society today than Rock/pop is. The average kid who's into Jay-Z, Kei$ha, Beyonce etc. probably only knows the Beach Boys thru watching reruns of Full House when they were kids (don't feel so bad. They can't name all the Beatles either as evidenced by many humorous YouTube videos). Rock/Pop as a genre doesn't mean that much to them anyway. It's really the Coachella crowd that "gets" The Beach Boys/Brian Wilson.

The real problem for the group has always been the "Woodstock/Rolling Stone magazine" generation...the age group that discovered rock in the late 60's. Not all of them, mind you, but a great deal of them. Even today I was talking to someone about the new Beach Boys album and they dismissed them as "bubblegum" and talked about how they weren't important like Bob Dylan, Creedence, CSN, blah blah blah etc. I knew they'd never listened to Pet Sounds or Smile and I doubt it would make a difference if they did. They're minds are made up. When Mojo magazine in the U.K. got the ball rolling when they called "Pet Sounds" the best album of all time, these people probably had fits. I can't see them changing their opinion at this point but (on the positive side) that generation no longer makes up all the rock critics and magazine editors in the world. Ironically, the group targeted that audience in the early 70's and won some of them over but that now seems to be forgotten. Then a little thing called "Endless Summer" came along...

..and that's where I come in.

I consider the early surf/cars/girls period of the Beach Boys to be every bit the valid artistic statement that Pet Sounds and Smile was (or was supposed to be in Smile's case). Heck, I think "I Get Around" is the greatest pop song of all time. But what do I know?

 

I always kinda felt like Kokomo was the bigger, louder, shinier, happier version of Getcha Back.

I prefer the latter, because of Brian's mournful falsetto, and Mike sounding like an old kid who's apologizing and wanting to make up. It's almost a preview of the middle-aged reflections of the current album, but way back in '85.

So Kokomo felt a little like a retread...but man, the confidence and sound of those vocals and harmonies. I can't argue with that.

And the corny list of places, the call/response/rhyme of it, is just silly fun.

What the hell, it's just fine.

Why no love? Nothing to do with Brian being on it or not to me. They did crappy songs with him at the time and without him as well. I just don't like it and never have. I suppose I felt it was harmless enough the first time I heard it but I wasn't impressed. The drag to me is that it's better known than other so many other more worthy songs. One last thing I should say is that I love Somewhere Near Japan. It's not the era or what it represents at all. I simply either like a song or don't.

Oh yeah..as for the song "Kokomo"...it's fine. Carl hits that chorus out of the park. I like it. There are far more embarrassing songs in the catalog than "Kokomo". I may be at an age where it resonates less for me that it does for a lot of other people here. By the late 80's, I had dropped out of paying attention to Top 40 radio and was full on into alternative/postmodern/whatchamacallit so I never felt assaulted by "Kokomo" and I've never watched an episode of Full House despite reading about the Beach Boys popping up on it. I also didn't listen to any radio stations that would've played it back in the day. I only hear it now once in a while on the oldies station mixed in with all the mid-60's Beach Boys singles. It sounds out of place next to them but that's fine. I'm just glad the Beach Boy are played somewhere since classic rock radio totally ignores them (at least in NYC).  

Kokomo is just one more song in a 50 year career. It was not an annihilation of anything other than a dry streak at the top of the charts. The song is no less cheesy (only more catchy) than say Hawaii, or Pom Pom Playgirl, or Sloop John B even! The so called pioneering artistic side of The Beach Boys is steeped in cheese. In fact, I find most of the whole Child Is The Father Of The Man suite to be so silly that I can almost never make it through. Aside from Surf's Up, Fire, Cabinessence, and most of Pet Sounds, the Beach Boys are a goofy band and that is a whole lot of their charm and it needs to be accepted. You're never going to find Zappa level coolness or the dissonance of Sonic Youth in the boys. The cheesy side that Kokomo supposedly represents has always been there with Brian's full participation. It's a simple yin yang and we're all the better for it.

I couyldn't have said it better! And I admit I was naive enough in 1988/89 to think that Kokomo's success would spur the guys on to do an album that combined the best of their hit sounds along with the more serious side of the band. They had their chance and they blew it.

I expected a good LP to follow in Kokomo's wake because of their high profile and that time (far more than in 1976) they blew it completely.

The Pitchfork guy doesnt really know what he said there. Paul McCartney visited LA in april 1967 when Brian had just given up on H&V and was doing the Smile version of Vegetables. That version was not the scaled down version. The Smiley Smile version was recorded in July 1967 and Sgt Pepper was already out and at #1 by that time. But hearing A Day In The Life would've affected him given that his masterpiece was falling apart and he was not managing to stay focused.

I feel they did waste perhaps their last opportunity to be relevant to the general pop audience by not properly following up Kokomo. Around the same time, the Bee Gees had their commercial/ artistic renaissance with You Win Again and after and if the Boys had followed a similar template, they could have had a credible non-Brian (if admittedly AOR) career revival into the early '90s, as a slick, 'mature' AOR vocal group. Not really to my taste, but a more respectable fate than what actually followed imo.

I doubt they would've gone the AOR route  - in the early 70's, that meant serious songs with long instrumental passages (i.e. Leaving This Town, Feel Flows). By the late 80's, AOR meant generic overproduced arena rock. I think the BB's could've successfully appealed to the AC crowd in the time frame we're talking about, as California Dreamin', Getcha Back and Kokomo all charted high on the AC charts. One thing I have failed to take into account, though, is the band's strained relations with Brian, largely because of Landy IMHO. How much of the new stuff for Still Cruisin' is he actually on? I don't hear him at all on the title track, Somewhere Near Japan or Make it Big (although he was in the video for SIP). He's clearly heard in the intro of Island Girl and of course In My Car. I'm sure the guys would've liked him to be around more, but Landy thought there was more to be gained by keeping Brian at arm's length from the group.

How did they waste it? They sure as hell tried; they just failed, over and over again. The thing is, "Kokomo" was truly a fluke. It was a weird combination of elements that came together in just the right way to make it a hit. Practically every piece of trash they put out in the late '80s and early '90s was a "Kokomo" retread.

I just get sick of how much Mike Love has to talk about "Kokomo".

Typical Mike lines:
"There are songs we have to do at a show. If we don't do 'Kokomo', some soccer mom would probably saw my head off."
"We have a lot of different sides to our music. Their is the fun side, like 'Kokomo', and the more serious side, like 'God Only Knows'. Actually, I like think that 'Kokomo' combines both - that 'we'll defy gravity part' is about the Maharishi and meditation."
"We've had a lot of hits over the years. Like 'Kokomo'."
"One of the greatest honors of our career was being asked to go on Full House to perform 'Kokomo'. I remember, too, when we were on Tool Time, and Tim Allen made us give him a private performance of 'Kokomo'."
"Sometimes I just wake up dazed and confused in my bathtub muttering 'Kokomo' over and over."
Brian: "I really just regret taking all those drugs. Those drugs really fouled my brain, really messed my head up."
Mike: "What about not singing on 'Kokomo'?"
Brian: "Yeah, that too. That was the ultimate head trip, y'know? I cried. I really cried, because it was so beautiful. Y'know. Really pretty. Like the waves." (everyone else in the band lets off an exaggerated laugh)

The difference is that The Bee Gees still had their original members. The BBs were short of their leader, another talented songwriter (Dennis obviously) and Carl had also essentially given up. A massive difference. The only thing that The BBs could really have done differently would have been to bring in other songwriters to paper over the cracks.

How's BW sound when they play Kokomo? Does he do Carl's part?

I hope he doesn't leave the stage like he did during H&V and other songs during the 70s and 80s

Why no love for 'Kokomo?'

How about that it's incredible cheesy and represents all the bad things about BB? How about that it's incredibly dated. How about the fact that ML can't seem to shut up about it. Oh sure it's a crowd pleaser. I don't believe it's a crowd pleaser because people think it's some great  work of art. It's a crowd pleaser because people remember it as a corny little song that was a hit back in the late 80's. If the song never went to #1 we wouldn't be talking about it today. How about that in every single interview ML just has to mention Kokomo. Usually in the same sentence as all the classics. We all know that Kokomo doesn't belong in the same dimension as the classic BB songs.

Oh, and to those who defend the better aspects of it. Mainly Carl's vocal contributions. Carl Wilson could have sung over the sounds of someone farting into a paper bag and his voice would still be goosebump inducing. Just because he's great on it, doesn't make the song great.

Jeff does Carl's part. Brian never leaves the stage - he stays at his piano.

I would have worded this much differently, but the sentiments would have been exactly the same. Thanks for saving me the trouble, SW. As I said, hearing Kokomo live was painful; the only good part is Carl's vocal, and, you may have noticed, Carl is dead. Perhaps insert a video of Carl singing his key line....what a tribute that would be...

Kokomo.

It's very light and lowbrow....unambitious in creative terms...compared with most great Beach Boys songs - even stuff like Surfin' USA. It doesn't have Brian involved in any way.

However, it *is* catchy. It really sounds like the Beach Boys - Carl's vocals in particular are excellent.

I think it just grates with some fans that a song which is very slight was a huge hit. But the record buying public has often made hits of songs with little creative value but which nonetheless make the toes tap, or just make you smile for no apparent reason. Kokomo falls into that category. Lyrically and musically it's certainly nothing special but it is catchy, nice to listen to...feels something like the Beach Boys...and that's all that mattered at that specific point in time.

And you can bet that if Brian had sung just one chorus, or had a co-writing credit for just one line...or a co-producer credit....it wouldn't come in for as much criticism. Also, Mike has really done to death the whole "I had a hit with Kokomo" line. Yes it was a bona fide hit, especially in the USA but also (to a lesser extent) elsewhere. Mike should be proud. But.....sheesh....it does not prove that Mike can consistently do it without Brian.

My personal view is that as a pop single there's nothing wrong with it. It was probably better than 80% of the chart music in 1988. It's pleasant on the ear. The harmonies are good and Carl is great. I just tend not to listen too much to the lyrics...and I can enjoy it for what it is. Uncomplicated pop.

I looked up Kokomo at songfacts.com, and it says the Beach Boys single release didn't do well at first and no one responded to it when they played it at their concerts.  It was only when it was released on the soundtrack to the movie "Cocktail" that it got to be a hit.  They made a music video with clips of Tom Cruise from the movie and it got a lot of airplay on MTV.  That's what made it a hit song.  If it had not been featured in that movie it wouldn't have gone anywhere.  Mike Love also wrote very few of the lyrics.  One person commenting on it said she had heard Scott Mackenzie do it a few years before the Beach Boys did it so it must have been around for some time.

It was a John Philips song first.

Interesting. I believe that the comments on Eric`s setlist archive state that it got a great reception in concert even before it was released as a single.

Here's the quote from the Songfacts site.  It's in the main body of the article, but the site seems to be made by music fans.  They don't have a source for it:

"This was released in July 1988, but it went nowhere until the movie came out a few months later and made it a huge hit. When The Beach Boys played it live during concerts that summer, it got no response."

Link to Songfacts Kokomo page:

http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=505

...Thing is, just about every word of this applies to "Surfin' USA" as well.

Doesn't have to be art to be a neat little song.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

I see your point. But, do you honestly believe that Kokomo is in the same boat as Surfin U.S.A?

I see some people mentioning how it's "ridiculously catchy". To suggest that this is what makes a song good is borderline offensive.

Kokomo uses an incredibly boring and derivative chord progression. The instrumentation is cheezy. It sounds like the commercial music for Sandals Resorts or something. The song was written in 1988 when Mike Love was 47. I mean come on there's absolutely no sophistication whatsoever. Brian was writing more sophisticated songs than this when he was 19.

It's not arbitrary that people love Brian and hate Mike. Brian was brilliant and Mike rode on his coattails. Kokomo to me is like the 1988 equivalent of a Katy Perry song or that "Call me Maybe" song that's really popular right now. Catchy - yes. Good music - no.

That is entirely untrue. Your point about them stepping back into their cliche as opposed to abandoning any progressiveness is EXACTLY why they still needed Brian. There was never a point where the Beach Boys didn't need Brian he is the only reason any of us know their name today. This song epitomizes why Brian was so important.


I study music and have am trying to figure out on what basis you are saying it's "well written". Can you explain a little more? Cause I always thought it was poorly written.

Just listened to both the John Phillips and Baha Men versions. Turns out the Beach Boys version isn't so bad after all.

The Beach Boys were just session singers on it and had their name put on the record but they had almost nothing to do with it including Mike.  Mike bragging about it like he had much to do with it is annoying but it's not something he really created.  Blame the people who put  the song on the Tom Cruise movie soundtrack and the people who put the video on MTV for it being huge.  Heck, Brian regrets not singing on it and has said so in interviews.

As for the instrumentation being cheesy, you do realize that Van Dyke Parks is responsible for a lot of the sound of it or at least the parts that sound like an ad for Sandal Resorts.  Van Dyke arranged the steel drum part and plays the accordion on it and those two sounds give it the island resort feel.

Actually, I'm kind of surprised Mike doesn't point out the VDP connection to Kokomo with a little grin whenever discussing Smile. "I have no problem with him! He did amazing work on Kokomo!"

Cue private plane story.

You studying music doesn`t have any relevance I don`t think. It`s all a matter of opinion. I mean, Brian was obviously amazingly talented but that doesn`t mean that people haven`t knocked him for his taste in music on occasions.

OP, in the week or so I have been on here, you have provided great entertainment. Sincere thanks. It might even be enough to keep me wading through all the BS.

Session singers is a bit strong. We could say that about a few Beach Boys albums, as well. They are foremost vocalists. I could see your point if was released as an instrumental piece with their name on it. Were they session singers on the new album? Same situation as Kokomo.

No no no no. Surfin' Usa is vibrant.  Kokomo is dull. And cheesy. And represents what the BB became during the 80s and 90s, if not in actuality, then certainly in the eye of a large swathe of the public

Point is, Kokomo wasn't something they came up with and they were only asked to do it by film producers. They weren't offered a label deal then came up with it like the new album.  They released it as a single prior to the film soundtrack and film release, but it only exists because of C'tail and it was produced by outsiders as a piece of a soundtrack.  The existence of the song and its success are both a fluke. 

The song was already written before galotail was filmed. Terry Melcher who had a history with the Boys' had quite a bit to do with recording the song and having it used in the movie. Furthermore, there are lots of songs recorded by the Boys' that had nothing to do with them previously. Recorded because there were songs that Brian or the band liked and wanted to put their take on it. Do You Wanna Dance was a #12 hit with music recorded by the Wrecking Crew with only the Beach Boys vocals. Whether Brian or Terry, these are Producers that the Beach Boys used to make their records. In neither case were they session vocalists for their own work. It truly amazes me that people who don't like something come up with made up reasons as to why it was done.

How they wasted it was by not following it with a studio album - instead, we got another comp. Mike, of course, wanted an album with 10 or 12 Kokomo retreads; and Brian's best songs were been kept for solo albums.

I disagree.  Just look at reviews of 15 Big Ones, MIU Album, and Keepin' the Summer Alive to see songs Brian either produced or co-wrote getting the same critical treatment (or worse) as Kokomo.  It's Carl and Dennis that are generally regarded as the saving graces of the 1978-80 albums, not Brian.  GIOMH didn't exactly get glowing reviews, either.

That said, how a Brian association might have helped the song's reputation...

Suppose BW88 had had the group do harmonies, therefore being a Beach Boys album (titled Love and Mercy) instead of a solo one, with Kokomo in place of One For The Boys.  It would have been the big hit on an album with Love and Mercy, Melt Away, Night Time, and Rio Grande.  Being on a very good album rather than the... not so good one it was on would have made it part of a creative revival for the band, instead of representing the era where the Beach Boys became a joke. 

It would still be considered cheesy fluff with a great Carl vocal, but it would be seen in a completely different context. 

Can't someone make a "C'mon pretty mama board" where this can be the sole topic of discussion? It just puts me down when I enter SSB and see dat title...

Kokomo.

If only they would rerecord this for the boxed set, it would be so timely:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6U2ubpBd28

What the f**k did I just listen to?

My personal dislike of "Kokomo" has nothing to do with Mike Love. "Daybreak Over The Ocean" and "Big Sur" are great, hey, I even like "Everyone's In Love With You" despite the Maharishi! Maybe if Brian had had the chance to work on Kokomo, he might have improved it to a point where I would like it, but that's not for sure.

I frequently play Beach boys songs (plus non-BB songs) for friends on their birthday parties. This year somebody asked if I could play Kokomo... no I couldn't. :o

I have no problems with Kokomo and like it as part of the Beach Boys catalogue and inclusion in the live concerts.
It made the group relevant to a new set of fans (age wise) and "clicked" with the public. It cam along at a time that not much new or positive was coming from the group or any of its members. It was good publicity (I don't subscribe to the addage that any news (good or bad) is good news). A #1 song is a #1 song and there's nothing wrong with that whatsoever.
Concert goers sing the chorus with as much enthusiasm as any of their hits - and that's a good thing.
It is not one of my top favorite BB songs but it isn't low on the list either and the background stories and the like with respect to the song do not detract from the song for me.
I do agree with the comments that in a live set the song should be played earlier on as it is somewhat miscast towarsd the end when the faster paced songs are being played.

But the thing is that the song has dated terribly while the group's earlier material has not.  People like the song but they like it not as a piece of music but as a piece of nostalgia and that's why its popularity irks me.  I actually like the song but it is a poor representation of the Beach Boys from a bleak point in the band's career, artistically if not financially.  It was a commercial success but nothing more.  It's a catchy novelty song that doesn't fit in with the rest of the band's catalogue.

to me the problem with Kokomo is the fact that there were so many REALLY great songs from the 60's-70's that SHOULD have been hits but weren't (Aka:"Till I die","Long promised road" etc),but then Kokomo comes out and it's a huge hit BUT it really isn't much different from the songs off of MIU. it would be like if The Beatles had released "Hey Jude" as a single and it flopped then released "You know my name" as a single and it becomes their biggest hit in years.

"'Til I Die" and "Long Promised Road" should have been commercial hits?  ;D

I think they were better then Kokomo..so yes they should have been.. ;D also "california" could have been a hit,that one sounds like a "california girls part 2" in a lot of ways.

Sure, most things are better than "Kokomo" (and "'Til I Die" & "Long Promised Road" are among the best BBs songs anyhow). I just think your reasoning is debatable.  ;) "Kokomo" was consciously written to be a (hit) single (by a number of writers who were rather familiar with hit singles), whereas "'Til I Die" and "Long Promised Road" are intricate album tracks (and designed to work in that context in the first place). But what am I telling you this for?  ;D

That is a very bad comparison. Kokomo is at least catchy and has a great refrain. Kokomo's popularity even took The Beach Boys by surprise. It was recorded for a movie soundtrack just as It's A Beautiful  Day and Chasin' The Sky. I doubt anyone thought it would be anymore than that.

"Kokomo" was supposed to be released as a new single for the BBs (and was of course meant to be successful, as any single any popular band ever releases), not just as another tune on a movie soundtrack. Eventually the degree of "Kokomo"'s success may have been a surprise, but not the fact that it did well commercially at all. Love, Phillips, McKenzie, Melcher... those guys knew they had a great single there.

and then they called uncle Jesse.

Just to be sure, yeah.  ;D

I wouldn't put in my Top 30 never mind Top 10 but i bloody love Kokomo , great wee song, catchy as hell.

Exactly

I suggest you check your facts before making such a sweeping statement, specifically the list of musicians on page 2:

http://www.tiptopwebsite.com/custommusic2/craigslowinskicom.pdf#page=1 (http://www.tiptopwebsite.com/custommusic2/craigslowinskicom.pdf#page=1)

I am so, so, so, so, sorry. Please, please, please, please forgive me that I forgot or did not remember that Carl and Brian participated in recording the track. That was not my point, however. The point was, was that like Do You Wanna Dance, Kokomo was recorded with outside musicans like their mid-60s stuff. Not an unusual thing for them to do. Actually, I don't need to keep my facts straight, as I have you to do that for me. ;)

Personally, I love it.

It makes me feel nostalgic about my childhood (I grew up with the song). Bland chord progression? Maybe. Cheesy instrumentals? Maybe. Cheesy lyrics? Yes. Dated Production? Yes.

To me, a great Beach Boys song is one that makes you feel happy and sad at the same time (Pretty much every song on Pet Sounds, the song 'All Summer Long', even the chorus of 'I Get Around' has an achingly beautiful melody). And Kokomo does the same thing for me.