Why No Love For Kokomo ?

[Jukka]

Great bass vocal hook? Check.
Heart-wrenching chorus melody? Check.
Lovely Carl Wilson vocal? Check.
Beautiful chord changes? Check.
Wall of harmonies? Check.
Escapist lyrics? Check.
Not just your average rock instrumentation? Check.

...sounds like a Beach Boys classic to me. And hey, even GOK almost had a sax solo in it!

[send me a picture and i'll tell you]

8===>  ?  Check.

[sockittome]

Ok, with all this out of the way, is it time to start a thread called "Why No Love for Still Cruisin' (the song)?"

[ontor pertawst]

... and I can go into a stirring defense of "The Monkey's Uncle." I BET IF BRIAN WILSON HAD A CREDIT ON IT, YOU GUYS WOULD LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE IT!

[SamMcK]

I always wish Getcha Back was a bigger success at the time, Brian's falsetto, although a bit odd is a great throwback to the classic Beach Boys sound.

[DonnyL]

Hardcore fans' hatred towards Kokomo is similar to their hate for surfboards onstage, or new attempts at beach imagery. They think that the BBs should be massively appreciated for the darker stuff they dig, but they aren't. Kokomo is the nail on the coffin of fans' last hopes for massively validating their tastes. It's a reminder of who the BBs are and what they're about. And many people can't get over it.

Nah, I think a lot of hardcore fans are totally cool with the beach and car thing. Really, the California lifestyle/fun-in-the-sun, whatever you wanna call it. But then you get into the vacation-on-a-tropical-island and chilling-out-in-a-retirement-home-in-florida vibe, and that's a whole other thing entirely.

It's not about 'dark artistry' vs. lightweight lyrical topics or beach imagery.

[DonnyL]

Hardcore fans' hatred towards Kokomo is similar to their hate for surfboards onstage, or new attempts at beach imagery. They think that the BBs should be massively appreciated for the darker stuff they dig, but they aren't. Kokomo is the nail on the coffin of fans' last hopes for massively validating their tastes. It's a reminder of who the BBs are and what they're about. And many people can't get over it.

Also, it's not a very good song.
But it was better than some of the other stuff on the radio at the time. I'll say that for it.

I say it's not worse than Help Me Rhonda.

WOAH, hey ... "Help Me Rhonda" is a high-point in '60s LA pop, "Kokomo" is ... ugh ...

[DonnyL]

The real question is, 'What is wrong with Summer in Paradise?' Without 'Kokomo', there would have been no SIP.

Without "Surfin'" there would have been no SIP either.  Is that a reason to despise "Surfin'"?

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Without milk, there would be no cheese.

[DonnyL]

Wait, what? The Beach Boys were basically never about "tropical" feel-good island music about vacations and "getting away from it all" before this.

Of course they were.  To all their landlocked fans in Salt Lake or Des Moines or Chicago, the Beach Boys were massively escapist.  California might as well have been a far-off tropical paradise to them.  The songs were selling their life as one big summer vacation.

More specifically:  "Hawaii".

Cheers,
Jon Blum

The Hawaii thing was touched upon here and there, but generally in a sort of tiki/cocktail jazz kind of way ("Diamond Head", "Busy Doin' Nothin", "Let's Go Away for Awhile", "Little Pad"), or a straight up California surf version of it ("Hawaii", "Kona Coast").

And Hawaii is not Florida or the Caribbean. Totally different scene.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

It's just not a particularly good song and a perfect example of a band sounding less "with it" as a result of trying to sound more with it but it is nevertheless a highlight from that era.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Hardcore fans' hatred towards Kokomo is similar to their hate for surfboards onstage, or new attempts at beach imagery. They think that the BBs should be massively appreciated for the darker stuff they dig, but they aren't. Kokomo is the nail on the coffin of fans' last hopes for massively validating their tastes. It's a reminder of who the BBs are and what they're about. And many people can't get over it.

Also, it's not a very good song.
But it was better than some of the other stuff on the radio at the time. I'll say that for it.

I say it's not worse than Help Me Rhonda.

WOAH, hey ... "Help Me Rhonda" is a high-point in '60s LA pop, "Kokomo" is ... ugh ...

Typical Lenny post.

[runnersdialzero]

Hardcore fans' hatred towards Kokomo is similar to their hate for surfboards onstage, or new attempts at beach imagery. They think that the BBs should be massively appreciated for the darker stuff they dig, but they aren't. Kokomo is the nail on the coffin of fans' last hopes for massively validating their tastes. It's a reminder of who the BBs are and what they're about. And many people can't get over it.

Also, it's not a very good song.
But it was better than some of the other stuff on the radio at the time. I'll say that for it.

I say it's not worse than Help Me Rhonda.

WOAH, hey ... "Help Me Rhonda" is a high-point in '60s LA pop, "Kokomo" is ... ugh ...

Typical Lenny post.

Brilliant 60s pop single versus "pretty okay", dated 80s tropical cheese. Same thing, y'know. ^_^

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Typical Lenny post.

That was a shitty thing to say.

[runnersdialzero]

Typical Lenny post.

That was a sh*tty thing to say.

Nawww, I think he was just kidding with 'im.

Right?

[Autotune]

Hardcore fans' hatred towards Kokomo is similar to their hate for surfboards onstage, or new attempts at beach imagery. They think that the BBs should be massively appreciated for the darker stuff they dig, but they aren't. Kokomo is the nail on the coffin of fans' last hopes for massively validating their tastes. It's a reminder of who the BBs are and what they're about. And many people can't get over it.

Also, it's not a very good song.
But it was better than some of the other stuff on the radio at the time. I'll say that for it.

I say it's not worse than Help Me Rhonda.

WOAH, hey ... "Help Me Rhonda" is a high-point in '60s LA pop, "Kokomo" is ... ugh ...

I did not say it's better. I said it's not worse.

Help Me Rhonda is a classic notwithstanding its song value. So is Kokomo.

California Girls is a high point in 60s LA pop. Help Me Rhonda was a great sing along #1 smash.

[DonnyL]

... and I can go into a stirring defense of "The Monkey's Uncle." I BET IF BRIAN WILSON HAD A CREDIT ON IT, YOU GUYS WOULD LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE IT!

I love the Monkey's Uncle !

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I did not say it's better. I said it's not worse.

You're right, it's not worse. It's much, much worse.

Help Me Rhonda is a classic notwithstanding its song value. So is Kokomo.

The one problem there is that Kokomo is not a classic.

California Girls is a high point in 60s LA pop. Help Me Rhonda was a great sing along #1 smash.

Yeah, Help Me Rhonda is not as good as California Girls. But then again, Kokomo was far more worse than Rhonda than Rhonda is worse than California Girls.

[Autotune]

I did not say it's better. I said it's not worse.

You're right, it's not worse. It's much, much worse.

Help Me Rhonda is a classic notwithstanding its song value. So is Kokomo.

The one problem there is that Kokomo is not a classic.

Kokomo will be riding the airwaves long after you and I are gone, my dear.

Musically or lyrically there's not much to Rhonda; great arrangeent and vocals, but then... Can't see why it should be regarded much higher than the K song.

[Sea Devil]

[runnersdialzero]

+2983198491284

[Jonathan Blum]

Ok, with all this out of the way, is it time to start a thread called "Why No Love for Still Cruisin' (the song)?"

Nah, I'm thinking "Which early songs would be shredded if they'd first been recorded by Mike in the '80s?".  "Little Honda"?  The Beach Boys were never about product-placement sell-outs!  "Farmer's Daughter"?  C'mon, what does that have to do with the LA teenage lifestyle?  "Why Do Fools Fall In Love"?  It's all about retro covers these days, not original songs!  Etc etc et bleedin c...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[Jonathan Blum]

And Hawaii is not Florida or the Caribbean. Totally different scene.

Point is that it's not everyday-life-for-teenagers-in-California, which is what people were trying to limit the Beach Boys scene to (specifically to exclude Kokomo).  It's about a frickin' vacation to someplace exotic, which is what people were complaining about Kokomo being.

And the point remains, for the millions of people around the world listening to these songs who weren't living in LA, the whole California thing was a massive escapist fantasy too.  So of course they don't think that Aruba, Jamaica is that different from surfin' at Del Mar or the Ventura County line, or anywhere else on their way to sunny Californ-i-a.

Plus, of course, God forbid that guys on the far side of 40 have a different take on fun-in-the-sun than teenagers do...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I did not say it's better. I said it's not worse.

You're right, it's not worse. It's much, much worse.

Help Me Rhonda is a classic notwithstanding its song value. So is Kokomo.

The one problem there is that Kokomo is not a classic.

Kokomo will be riding the airwaves long after you and I are gone, my dear.

If it dwindles in radio play any more than it has done in the last twenty years, I'd be afraid to imagine what you think my life span will be. Because it was a hit by The Beach Boys, I can't imagine a world where it never gets played at all. It's more likely it will be played seldomly (kind of like now) but if current airplay is any indication, it will more than likely be reserved for the Beach Boys remembrance shows, 80s pop remembrance shows, or the Worst Songs of All Time lists that Kokomo often makes it way onto.

At any rate, I can't imagine "Classic" rock radio stations actually play Kokomo and since its central audience at the time was the Lite-Rock dump for trying-to-be-trendy 60s artists (cue those classics - Joe Cocker's Love Lifts Us Up and Aaron Neville's Don't Know Much) who quickly moved on to the next thing, I'd hardly put much faith in your predictions.

Musically or lyrically there's not much to Rhonda; great arrangeent and vocals, but then... Can't see why it should be regarded much higher than the K song.

Precisely because it has great arrangment, vocals, and don't forget melody. It's not shlocky pap made by over-the-hill artists still trying to act with it and failing at doing so. I'd say that explains the distinction.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

And Hawaii is not Florida or the Caribbean. Totally different scene.

Point is that it's not everyday-life-for-teenagers-in-California, which is what people were trying to limit the Beach Boys scene to (specifically to exclude Kokomo).  It's about a frickin' vacation to someplace exotic, which is what people were complaining about Kokomo being.

And the point remains, for the millions of people around the world listening to these songs who weren't living in LA, the whole California thing was a massive escapist fantasy too.  So of course they don't think that Aruba, Jamaica is that different from surfin' at Del Mar or the Ventura County line, or anywhere else on their way to sunny Californ-i-a.

Except a crucial difference is that the Beach Boys construction of California played heavily into the American Dream mythology which was very much about a Westward expansion into some kind of perfect paradise. I think, at least subconsciously, it was that that made the band so interesting to listeners outside of California - because, for a while, they so captured the packaged image of America that had been sold to the country for years. That's something altogether different than singing about Aruba, Jamaica, which was just kind of a thing to do in the 80s - island songs were "in" and that was it.

[Jonathan Blum]

Except a crucial difference is that the Beach Boys construction of California played heavily into the American Dream mythology which was very much about a Westward expansion into some kind of perfect paradise.

Sorry, mate -- when I grew up in Maryland listening to Endless Summer, I wasn't thinking "oh yes, Westward expansion, these hot rods clearly represent my manifest destiny".  The appeal's way more basic than that, and not so strictly focused as to exclude Kokomo -- the whole fun-fun-fun in the sun-sun-sun bit was part of the package whether they were singing about Del Mar, Salt Lake City, San Miguel, or Honolulu.

Cheers,
Jon Blum