The Smiley Smile Message Board

Something I wrote whilst wrecked in the Country Love thread got me to thinking....


I know Mike is effective singing I Get Around, That's Not Me, and other songs. He works in The Beach Boys, on a lot of material. He's a fine bass singer - you'd have to be, with the parts Brian deals you. In those respects, he's an amazing singer.

And yet listening to the gospel - sort song on Country Love made me think, is Mike Love actually any good as a singer of words? Maybe I'm answering my own question when I make the distinction of him singing, IDK, Dance Dance Dance before the horrifying mental image I have of of Mike Love singing gospel music, or I Can't Stop Loving You, or any great songs without totally ruining them....

I just wondered what you all thought. And I'm trying not to troll  ;D

Mike's voice is like his lyrics, IMO. He's very good on a somewhat limited range of material.

At various points, Mike has shown flashed of other voices -- like "All I Want to Do" (the rocker, not the spacey one). He also can do a nice whispered croon, as revealed on "Kokomo" and "Cool Head, Warm Heart." So I suspect he had a bit more range than we know. Sadly, he's really toured a lot of the range and power out of his voice, so I'm not sure how much he has left (not that this is unusual for 70-year-old rock singers).

In terms of the nasal leads he's known for, Mike is not exactly an objectively great singer. He's distinctive, yes, and Brian knew precisely how to use him to great effect. Let's put it this way -- Mike Love is the best possible singer for "California Girls." No one else could sing that song the way he could. He wouldn't work on God Only Knows, particularly. Or a lot of other groups' material. But who else could make "California Girls" what it is?

Mike is a great bass vocalist outright.

As a lead vocalist, he's one of those guys that had limitations and learned to work well with those limitations, sometimes despite them. Guy got pretty good come the time of "California Girls", and as the 60s went on he got even better. Sounds great on stuff like "All I Want To Do", "Big Sur", "Meant For You", "All I Wanna Do", "Add Some Music To Your Day", etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

In conclusion, yeah, I think he is. There were certainly better singers within the band, but I wouldn't have had anyone but him sing those songs.

I would say Mike Love is a good singer just based on the fact that I'm sure more than once all of us have imitated him while singing Beach Boys songs.  To me that is the hallmark of a good singer in that he is influential enough that when people are singing his songs they alter their own voice to sing with his own vocal inflections.  As for that bass, wow out of this world!

Mike Love is a great singer. 

Sure there are technically better singers, but Mike has really left his mark on the world of popular music.

He's definitely original - no-one sings like Mike, although a lot of people kinda want to. 

And, as some of other posters have alluded, I can't think of anyone else singing those songs to as great effect as Mike.

Perhaps he peaked on "All this is that", or the early version of "Big Sur", that could be more about the biz than the art.

Mike Love has a unique voice within the Beach Boys. Unless you are familiar with the band, it is easy to think that Help Me, Rhonda, Wouldn't it Be Nice and Darlin were the same singer. Or that Be Here in the Morning and Break Away have one lead singer. But Mike's lead's are very obvious. Outside of I Know There's an Answer where he sounds similar to Al and Brian.

I think the cocky snarl in a Mike lead is unique in the rock n roll world. Plus he shows some diversity in ballads like All I Wanna Do, Everyone's in Love with You and Sumahama.

I'm not a big fan of Mike's quotations, speeches, etc., but as a singer...

...just listen to that long tag to Vegetables. That's some GREAT singing.

Yeah, Mike was an excellent singer as others have said.

I think that from the late 70s onwards though many of his best vocal efforts were on outside projects though. Either his solo stuff or the Celebration albums. His worst vocal efforts were mainly with the BBs or Adrian Baker when he didn't have anyone to crack the whip and get him to tone down the nasality.

Play "Kiss Me, Baby" and your question is answered.

It's too bad we all don't have Al to plug our noses while imitating Mike.

Also, I think Mike Love will go down as "the dancer," not "the singer."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkW4Egnk23k

Yeah, he's an awesome singer, with a range that is lower than most. His bass parts are almost unmatchable in modern pop, but a lot of his lead vocals are out of the comfort zone of his range. Thats not to say I don't like him. His little squeeks and hiccups when he's singing notes that obviously aren't natural to his vocal range are part of his charm I reckon.

Mike Love is not only a good, talented singer, but he has an unique voice with recognition factor.
If you hear him on a new song you never heard before, you know, that's Mike. The public knows, that's the Beach Boys!

Mike Love is a great singer and a great frontman.  I agree with Jaspy and Andrew.  My one of my ever-favourite Mike Love vocals is "Kiss Me Baby". Just listen to his range...

As others have pointed out Mike has a very unique voice and nobody sounds like him, that's my definition of a "great singer" whereas a good singer can be anyone that has a decent range and technical abilities. It goes for anything really, some people can play a million notes a second on a guitar but it doesn't make them a great guitarist, it's all about individuality I suppose.

Also have a listen to other bands from the early 60's that had the same sort of style as the Beach Boys, the lead vocals sound kinda dated today but you listen to any of the Beach Boys songs from back then like Surfin' USA, I Get Around, Fun Fun Fun etc. and it still sounds fresh. That's the part of Mikes singing that people overlook I think. I often wonder what Surf City would've sounded like with Mike in his prime singing it rather than Jan & Dean.

I wish Brian would have let Mike use his natural voice more like on Devoted To You.

For anyone that points to his voice going down hill after the mid 70s, I say, how about most of the Beach Boys voices?

I don't want to make a grand statement but this is my impression:

Mike Love is underrated among the BB fanbase. His strenght as a singer is that he is has the most recognizable voice in the band and that his performances always are enjoyable. IMHO he's also the second best songwriter in the band. When he writes a great song like Big sur, Kokomo or Summer in Paradise he is a better songwriter than Dennis or Carl at their best. Obviously ML isn't very consistent with his songwriting.

The writing of Mike, on the one hand, and Carl and Dennis on the other doesn't compare. Mike was the strongest lyricist in the band (and later sometimes the weakest) whereas Carl and Dennis were obviously more writers of music. The sad thing, to me at least, is that when Brian pulled back that Mike didn't find a new songwriting partner. When he wrote Don't Run Away, Sound of Free, Only With You, Pacific Ocean Blue etc. he showed that he could co-write good songs with other writers.

All hail Cablegeddon, the King of ridiculous statements! We can now add the above to the 'mono Smile sessions ruined the Beach Boys legacy' and 'Our Prayer is the standard thing any given vocal group would throw together'

Summer In Paradise & Kokomo are better songs than Long Promised Road, Feel Flows, Trader, Where I Belong, Cuddle Up, Forever, Baby Blue, River Song etc? Give me a friggin break!

his best singing voice for me was on the quiet tunes.  at that point i looove his voice.  Songs like meant for you, all i wanna do, original big sur.  It's really smooth and pretty awesome.  Then rock n roll music came out and it's like nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.


i'll also add that i think the original Big Sur is a tune i like more than any carl song.  But mike doesn't come close to dennis. 

He's of course a great bass singer, and he's capable of singing very well "All I Wanna Do" stands out to me.  However, most of the parts he was given didn't require a tecnically 'good' singer, his biggest gift was Swagger.  For instance; his voice, tone, and arrogance adds a lot to a song like "409"

"...Well; I saved My Pennies and I Saved My Dimes...."

Nice Swag on that song.  I think he did his part in the band, and did it very well. 

Gotta add again: "Kokomo" is great in every way.  EVERY way, I can't believe the hate Mike gets for that.  Brian Wilson knows Kokomo is great, that lets me know I'm not crazy.  The lyrics are as good as anything they ever did, certainly as good as "Good Vibrations", the production is dated of course, but the vocals are sublime, some of their best ever.  "Oooh I wanna Take Ya" is the same as "She's Givin' Me Excitations", but nobody complains about Good Vibrations.  It's alright for Van Dyke to make up words but Mike's an idiot for it.  Okay.

I consider Mike a good singer 'till he nasals it up , then I have to grit my teeth somewhat.

Yes.

When Mike sweetens his vocals (like on Meant For You) he is really every bit as a good as an expressive singer as Carl or Brian, imo.

Mike seriously messed up his voice from 1975 on trying to sound like he did in the 1960s.

Lol what?

People sh*t on Kokomo for Mike's 'alliteration' but Van Dyke's a genius for giving us Kurt Cobainesque nonsense that even he can't explain.  I'm not saying Van Dyke's not great, I'm just saying if Mike's a horrible songwriter for Kokomo, Van Dyke deserves another look :)

Mike has one of the most recognisable voices in American history

Incredible vocalist, really wish he sung like he did on "All I wanna do" more

Yeah, it's so strange that he didn't.  He even swoops up into a falsetto for a second on it, you'd think if he had that talent (not necessarily the falsetto) he'd have used it more often.  Maybe he thought if he stuck with his tried and true voice that would be more commercial. 

Mike Love didn't write that many lyrics to Kokomo so the comparison doesn't quite work.

Also, I don't think it's a matter of Van Dyke not knowing what his words mean - he simply has a sophisticated understanding of the "role of the author" which even at that time was well accepted in literary communities since the beginning of the 20th Century.

I'm not intelligent enough to understand what the f*** you just said, but I'm just saying the lyrics to Kokomo are fine with me. 

That's fine -- but what does that have to do with the lyrics of Van Dyke Parks?

Holland is great for hearing Mike's "other" voice.

I'll go over it again.

Van Dyke is regarded as a great lyricist.  Lots of folks hate Kokomo, usually they say because of the lyrics.  I'm trying (not very well) to make the point that if you can get down with Van Dyke's aliteration, why not the equally vapid lyrics on Kokomo? 

You've all said what I meant really (Apart from Ron going off his meds again) - Mike Love is a fine Beach Boy. Like I said, but probably didn't communicate very well, I wasn't slagging off his work with the group or on his songs or trying to get a rise out of you. His softer voice on stuff like Big Sur and Meant For You also is a plus.

You just get things like him trying to sing Imagine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfmH2wHTQZ8 and it becomes ballcrushingly awful, and how different is the way he sings that to how he sings, IDK, 409 in the same timeframe and delivers a kick-ass lead? It's not that far.
Then there's Country Love, where he sings in the same manner about y'know, dying and this poor dog, home, and crying into his beer, and there's seemingly NO emotion conveyed there.

Maybe he's the most specialised singer in western pop, or we're all mistaking his dead expressionless nasal bellow for a passionate sneer about chicks and cars, the thin veneer of which slips when he sings a song with genuine emotional complexity that hasn't been written for him?


Oh, and Ron, the SMiLE lyrics aren't vapid. Just because they aren't 'obvious' doesn't mean they don't mean anything.

Well, first of all, there isn't much alliteration in Van Dyke Parks's lyrics. You're using the term as it was misused by Mike Love. Furthermore, I don't find Parks's lyrics to be vapid in any sense of the term. His use of puns, jokes, wordplay and his ability to conjure images with language show a fairly strong skill at writing, in the vein of Edgar Allan Poe. Kokomo's lyrics, on the other hand, could have been part of a jingle put together by a travel company. But, again, this hasn't much to do with Mike Love since he didn't really have much to do with those lyrics.

Mike's a good singer in a number of ways for sure, love his bass parts, and when I'm singing along it's Mike's parts I love to imitate. His voice, especially today, is not for everyone's taste and I understand that.  I am a little nervous as to how he'll sound on these reunion shows and I hope they don't overload the setlist with Mike leads. I know he sings on a number of hits but I hope they try to balance it.  One of the shortcomings of the 90's band is the set had too many Mike leads and not enough Carl and Al.

Yes, Mike is a great singer - not in the Brian or Carl sense (as in they could sing the phone book and it would sound amazing), but as others have said, he had a distinctive lead voice that was perfectly suited to the material he sang.  And of course, his bass singing was out of this world.

I'm not sure how we got onto the subject of Mike's lyrical abilities versus those of Van Dyke, but if you're going to argue that Mike is a great lyricist (a premise that I do agree with, by the way), why on earth would you focus on "Kokomo" of all things?  He didn't really "write" those lyrics in a traditional sense, and there are dozens of songs he co-wrote in the 60's and 70's that are far better examples of how great a lyricist he was.  "Kokomo" is a catchy pop song - "God Only Knows" is a great song.  World of difference.

For a guy who didn't want to sing over and over the crow flies...he sang the hell out of it

Here here. I always wondered if Mike meant "acid illiteration." Illiteration obviously isn't a word but it makes more sense to diss VDP&co by calling them illiterate than by accusing them of using a literary technique that actually isn't seen much in the lyrics.

If that is the case, big ironic lulz abound.

Mike Love was a damn good singer (was, not is, as he long ago resorted to nasal-overkill), with more range than he's generally given credit for, and an excellent frontman.

As a lyricist, he was great and continues to be somewhat under-rated. The lyrics to so many of the BB's early songs are simply perfect!

As a solo songwriter, he had some terrific moments - Big Sur in particular - but also some atrocious moments, and was certainly a lesser talent than any of the Wilson brothers and - arguably - Al.

As a person, i dislike some of the things he's said and done, i intensely dislike his constant shameless history revision, and i hate his politics.

 

Er...VDP's lyrics are brilliant. You don't have to like them, but they are exquisitely crafted in terms of word play (after Hart Crane, he is the king of the tasteful, Americana-drenched pun), he's able to do the assonance and sibilance without sounding like an ass (but maybe a bit like a sibyl), and he knows how to make clever, apposite allusions that still work in pop tunes.

Heroes and Villains? Simple, effective, and catchy, with just enough esoteric content to make you go 'huh...yeah...clever' and still remember it. Wonderful is a model of restraint, while still being subversively Freudian - it's a fab riff on the BB's reputation for clean-cut American. The cadence is sophisticated without ever losing the beat. Ironic that one of the best line deliveries in Smile comes from Mike (over & over....). It's kind of heartbreaking actually, because I really like Mike's voice, and genuinely, fer real, think that had he given VDP a chance (and maybe vice versa) they could have reached an equilibrium and delivered some amazing material.

There is the odd competent line in Kokomo, but the lyrics have been battered into a rigid cadence and rhyme scheme that could charitably be described as 'basic'. Carl's breathtaking voice on the chorus redeems it for me.  

Gets me every time

None of this stuff is/was ever meant to be taken so seriously.

Kokomo is a pleasant and catchy summer song that happened to become a hit. It is completely competent on all levels for what it is and for what it aspires to be. Basic or not.

True for Kokomo, but not for Smile, and the comparison between the approaches is valid in terms of what it says about the aspirations of the singer and the band.

The ways in the Kokomo vs. the Smile lyrics were put together make a difference to how the singer interprets it, and what we learn about the vocalist and his abilities as a result. A lot of this thread has been based around what ifs - what if ML moved into different material, would we have got more to learn more about his range (for example, the Sunflower AIWTD).  Reportedly, VDP was actually involved in recording Kokomo (or sessions for material produced around that time). So, there are bases for comparison. No harm in discussing them.

I dunno!

With Smile, Brian was big into humor and LSD and I think he wanted the listener to sit back, Smile and get either stoned or to trip out and laugh or whatever. I think he'd be horrified at the thought of pipe smoking academics tearing it apart note for note.

That kind of thing can take all the fun out of music.

Sometimes all you're supposed to do is listen and live your life with the music as the soundtrack.

But I get what you're saying.

And I thought I had the greatest avatar pic of all-time!!!!   ;D

Wonder what OSD will think. :lol

This is exactly how I feel about Mike Love. I admit I used to do my share of Love-bashing, but he was/is an important contributer to the band.  I recall an interview Carl did during his solo tours where he said he now had a greater appreciation for what Mike did as the BB's frontman. I no longer see him as the evil guy in the hat. There definately are some villains in the BB's history, but I don't see Mike - or any of the BB's - that way.

Fair enough. But a lot of work goes into making music, and sometimes it's rewarding to return the favour on the listen. And with Smile, the lyrics are complex enough to make any chemical 'enhancements' a distraction. They're fun in a lot of places, but SU, Cab, Wonderful, even H&V are intricate and hard-won masterworks.

ML had his moments too - GV and the Warmth of the Sun are absolute pop gems. Simple lyrics, but not simplistic. 

Even stamos?

There is something disconcerting to me about the idea of expecting a listener to work, though, even though the musician obviously puts in a huge amount of work. I'm not always a fan of Wynton Marsalis, and I am a fan of Cecil Taylor, but there is comment of the former about the latter in the Ken Burns "Jazz" documentary that I quite liked. In speaking of Taylor's comment (paraphrased) that "I work hard to make my music, the audience should work hard to hear it," Marsalis calls bullshit. I agree. The listener can do whatever he or she wants: the music is, to some degree, entertainment. Now it may be to the listener's entertainment to "work at it." Or it may be just fun to dance to it. Or it may be "fun" to cry over it. But to expect the listener to work, I agree with Marsalis. I'd call bullshit.

Mike is a very powerful musical force and can really rock the man in the boat.  I was always disappointed when a Wilson was absent from a show but have never experienced the disapppointment or disorientation of seeing the Beachboys without Michael Love.

Nearly did a spit take at that one, Donald  :lol :lol :lol

Stamos is a Beach Boy?

Depends what you expect from music. I don't think it should lag behind other art forms. Joyce's Ulysses takes a bit of doing, but it's work well rewarded (it's worth noting that it is an intensely funny book in places, dripping with pop-culture references as well as historical & mythological ones). Similar process with Smile, except that it's pop, and it has singles. But it also has clear non-singles, and conspicuously demanding material.

I wouldn't apply those standards to all of the BB's catalogue, but I would to most BW compositions. The genius of BW, is that in his chosen medium, which is often geared to sounding effortless & disposable (which it is in some cases but by no means all), is that you can just switch off. Some of the most exciting moments come when he's almost daring you to do that...No-Go Showboat comes to mind. One of the most dizzying chord-twizzles & stunning display of vocal gymnastics going, with dead-air breaks and all sorts of mojo going on, in a song about a car....devilish.  

Mike's voice was great until Endless Summer came out. I like his tonal quality a lot very rich and resonant. I think as a bass singer he could have sung anything in his prime. Since 1976 like all the group, his voice has been spotty let alone some of his songs. Yet when I hear Unleash The Love recorded about seven years ago, and when he tries he can still sound good. He knocked "Here Today" out of the park when I saw him in 2007.

But Mike does sound great on some later stuff.

Sumahama, Pitter Patter, It's OK, Everyone's In Love With You, A Casual Look.

I think Mike sounds fantastic on those cuts!

If millions of people buy records that you sing on, you can't be all that bad.

I guess Ke$ha (sp?) is a good singer, too, then.

Joking aside, if you think ML's a god singer, he is--to you. I don't think he is, so he isn't a good singer to me. Simple as that. No real objective answer.

Without reading any of the posts:
Yes, one of the best when he wants to.

He has one of the most recognizable voices in pop music. He may not be a "great" singer in the traditional sense (VERY few rock singers are) but you can pick out his voice from a mile away. He's among the great rock singers, for sure.

What is Mike's musical background, anyways, other than playing a little sax?  He seems to appreciate Brian's ability in a way that shows he understands some basics of music.  He also came up with a few musical parts here and there, though not many.  He has an instinctive ability to phrase, whether you like the way he sounds or not.  I'm just wondering if he had much formal training beyond sax, which was most likely training in public school music programs.  I also wonder if he picked some things up from his mother, since her brother Murry had at least ability by ear.

He can play guitar as well.

I think Mike gets judged by one voicing he got locked into by Brian and then apparently felt compelled to keep up even after Brian had dropped out as Producer. I wish he had been allowed or felt compelled to use his voicings on Kiss Me Baby and especially Devoted To You much more. Of course that is not as distinctive as his nasal voicing and therefore not as iconic so maybe Brian and he knew what they were doing all along.

His bass/bartitone is knock out imo.   

Mike influenced other singers.  I'm thinking of Joey Ramone in particular, but there must be others.

I think this is a good summation. It's maybe not his fault, as his softer voicing is very fine.


It's very weird seeing this thread crop up, btw. Although I think my basic point stands, in spite of evidence that Mike Love can sing emotionally. I'd like you all to imagine Mike Love singing one of the following solo;

1) Amazing Grace
2) Your respective nations national anthem
3) I Can't Stop Loving You
4) Any gospel music, ever.

It is strange. I cannot see him doing any of the above without it being a disaster, and yet I do agree with you guys. Brian was lucky that he had Carl, Al, Dennis and Bruce in a way. He had many tools. Annd Mike was a very specialised one, I suppose.

By Van Halen?

Is it odd if I picture him singing this song daily prior to you prompting me to do so?

You are talking about the Van Halen song, right?

Van Halen?

Ray Charles!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQXsM1l2wZ8

Otherwise known as the most ridiculously OTT romantic song ever

I can't picture any Beach Boy singing "I Can't Stop Loving You" too well.  Maybe Carl, but not anyone else, even Brian.  And Carl would be a stretch.

(http://loudwire.com/files/2012/05/SammyHagar.jpg)

You know Dennis would nail it.


Carl would do the right things.

Brian would be ok.

Bruce would send it to number one.

Mike would be OK at it. Maybe he's got the Country thing down by now.

Yes, he nails his bass parts. Often,  they aren't easy ones, either.

I think Mike is a good singer. His delivery in it's prime was a building block of the Beach Boys achievements!

Sure, but Dennis would nail anything.  >:D

i don't think i'd say he has a good voice, but he's a good singer

Apparently her voice has a certain quality that makes it appealing to a whole lot of people. So yes, that does make her a good singer, even if she might not be good technically (but then again, neither are Neil Young, Bob Dylan, Tom Waits...). Like it or not, if millions of people are willing to pay to hear you sing, than it's hard to deny that you're a good singer.

Sue me for sounding elitist, but popular opinion is never an absolute indication of quality. Turn on the television, turn on the radio, browse some YouTube comments and see what a large amount of people are watching these days, listening to these days, and saying these days. 17 million Jersey Shore fans CAN be wrong imoimoimoimo

Yes, 17 million. And those are just the ones with Facebook access. Believe it. :'(

I agree, popularity doesn't equal quality. But still: there are billions of people on this planet and just a few hundred of them can do a trick that millions of people are willing to hear or see them do for money. So if you're one of those lucky few, it's pretty much an established fact that you must somehow be doing your trick well.

Mike is a great singer with one of the most recognizable voices in rock n roll history.

Oh fine. You with your calm, rational approach to things ;(

In support of Mike, I'm gonna mention "Johnny Carson". I love his vocal in that.

Then again, I actually like him when he's nasal. He just sounds so much like Mike Love! I'm thinking of his lines in "Santa Ana Winds" or his verse in the Knebworth version of "Sloop John B". It almost sounds like when Brian is making fun of him in "Cassius Love vs Sonny Wilson", it's so extreme. But it's just so distinct.

I've long felt that the greatest singers in pop history aren't necessarily the ones who sound the best, if that makes any sense. Edith Piaf, Bob Dylan, Louis Armstrong, these are all legendary singers whose voices aren't technically what's desired in a singer, per se, but their voices fit the music they're singing so perfectly that you wouldn't have it any other way. Mike's voice isn't in the same league, necessarily, but it's along the same lines.

Mike may not have a GREAT voice, but he knows how to get the most of out of it. Carl was blessed with a beautiful set of pipes, but he also knew how to use them. The two are not synonymous (i.e, any number of present day singers blessed with pipes of gold that think they have to oversing everything).

Agreed. Mike is what sends Santa Ana Winds from a good song to a great song.

A Good Singer, But somewhat of a Douche...

No one in the Beach Boys saga is an angel, though. Far from it.

The only musical talent Mike ever had was for giving his sax a good blow job. Other than that, I think he just needed to blow his nose more often.

I'll buy into the last part of that.