The Smiley Smile Message Board

I find Al Jardines character very confusing. Is he (in  Beach Boys terms) a goodie or baddie? Some random facts I can muster out of the back of my head:
Early promise in writing/co-writing/producing - Wake the World, At my window, Good time, take a load off your feet, don't go near the water, back home (1970), Susie cincinatti.
The Beach Boy who can most sound like Brian
The Beach Boy who (apparently) most sounds like he used to
He was suspended during SIP for 'attitude' problems! according to AGD. not surprising, I'd have an attitude if I was recording that album.
His long documented 'mental' problems....?
His team up with Mike Love from the mid 70s onwards
His defection from Love in the late 90s (a bit like when Darth Vader finally becomes good at the end of Return of the Jedi)
He insulted Brians shoes
He was mostly responsible for the MIU album (which I quite like)
He met Brian again at the BB Hawthorne statue thing
A stern champion of Dennis Wilsons music - but that wasn't the case in the past  (when it mattered)
This might seem like a load of random facts (which they are) but I wonder if anyone shares my problem of trying to work him out?

 
Like everybody in the world, he's neither a goodie or a baddie.  He's just a person, like all of us.

Like any of the Beach Boys, "working them out" requires one to take into consideration the unique factors that go into making a person who they are, why they have their peculiar biases, why they would make a decision or act a certain way.

In Al's case, I think it's really important to keep in mind the various issues that might come along from not being a Korthof, if you will.  I think I would find it difficult to be part of a family operation and not be part of the family.

Still, I say overall, Al's a good guy who, like all of us, has had to act in his own self interest.  And sometime people's self-interests don't really co-habitate well.

Anybody who writes a song called "Crack At Your Love" is a champ in my book.  ;D

But seriously, Al seems like the kind of guy that always just went with the flow. He had his share of brilliant moments. In addition to his songwriting which you have mentioned already, I feel the "In Concert" album is a prime example of his talent as a vocalist.  I was just listening to this album earlier today, and his strong leads on "You Still Believe in Me", "Wouldn't It Be Nice", "Don't Worry Baby" and "Heroes and Villains" easily stand alongside the original versions, which is really saying something.

On top of that he was always dependable as a performer, very professional, and he still seems to take a lot of pride in being a Beach Boy.  As aeijtzsche said, he easily could have been the odd man out due to not being in the "family," but he did a great job of fitting right in. He knew his role and he fulfilled it.

PS - I like the Darth Vader analogy.  :lol

I think perhaps when I got into the BB I wasn't that big a fan of the man. But recently my thoughts have been changing - however theres no need for that spoken intro at the beginning of Santa Ana Winds.

what about making fun of Brian's shoes?

The thing about the shoes was in Brian's "autobiography" as I recall, but I thought it was said by Mike. 

Why did he get "suspended" during the recording of SIP? Too much musical taste?

There was a nice interview with Al in either Goldmine or whatever the other one is a few years ago.  It was a nice chance to finally get inside his head a little bit, since we've heard pretty much everyone else's story.  (Actually, I'd love to see a really decent Carl interview turn up somewhere).

Incidentally, the original version of the song was called "Crack At Your Shoes", but, like Lennon's "Sexy Sadie", it had to be toned down to avoid controversy.  Al's two fetishes: feet and teeth.

Correct.  In the book Mike was the one who insulted Brian's shoes; according to the book, they were those cheap black vinyl/nylon kinds with the velcro straps, popular among those who just can't stand to tie their own shoes, and a top seller at your local Wal-Mart.  Sort of like these:

(http://img.shopping.com/cctool/PrdImg/images/pr/177X150/00/01/6a/e9/26/23783718.JPG)

They can say what they want about Brian's shoes, but they spent twenty years proving they couldn't fill 'em. 

Surfer Joe...that was one of the best lines I've read in a long time. Major props.

Oh, but those *are* some ugly shoes. :-X

KUDOS TO SURFER JOE!
that was prime and grand!

you're looking at the shoes i wear to work....and when im not at work, it's the lounging deck shoes purchased at the local walmart for a low price of 6.59    ;D

Thanks, guys; happy to make myself useful.  We should all chip in and send Brian a pair of Bruno Maglis.

wish i knew what those were

I think I have a pretty good idea of what Al's like.  I don't see much not to like about him at all.  He seems like a really cool guy to me.  I know he's been critical and done some kind of backhanded things over the past few years as far as lawsuits and such... but I don't feel any of them were really just way over the line or anything.  If you look at it from his perspective, I think most of the stuff he's done is really kind of the right thing for him to do at the time. 

Basically you have a guy that because he wasn't there for a few months at the beginning of their career (although he was there before, and permanently after)... is kind of on the outside looking in when it comes to business decisions.  Then, you have a guy who spent his whole life as a 'beach boy', and he's told he can't even reference that he's obviously been a member of that band his entire adult life whenever he does concerts.  "Beach Boys Family and Friends" is enough of a 'what?' title to call your band, that anybody who heard that band was playing, would look @ a lineup list or something to see if it was in fact the Beach Boys, or something else they were going to see.  That seems like a fair name to show that yes, Al was a Beach Boy, but his band isn't the actual 'Beach Boys'.  I don't have a problem with it, but then again I don't have money at stake in it.

Plus, weren't Brian's daughters singing in the band? 

I'm gonna have to play Pilate on this one and find no fault with the man.

The absolute last two things I saw Al Jardine do were the following:

1. He showed up at the landmark dedication, and gracefully shared the stage with Brian.  He recognized and showed through that, that the event, their musical legacy, and the gathered fans were something bigger than any petty personal differences him and Brian may or may not have.

2.  He dropped the lawsuit against BRI just days before Mike sued Brian over some petty bullsh(t involving the SMiLE album.  The only reason Al would have possibly dropped that lawsuit, at that time, was because he knew in advance that the Mike lawsuit was about to become public, and he couldn't with good conscience sue BRI (and Brian by default) when he felt Brian was being so unfairly pounded by Mike.  At least that's the way I take it.

Al's made comments about how he felt it was degrading to crawl around on the floor and make animal noises during the SMiLE sessions, I can see where he might feel that way.  I wouldn't, but if he did... that's no slight on his character, he just wasn't comfortable with it. 

I really can't think of 1 thing I don't like about the guy. 

There apparently aren't many. I have a videotape of an interview Carl did on some latenight PBS talkshow in 1983, I believe. The interview doesn't probe too deep, but it goes well beyond the standard inane questions. I believe Brian was just starting to reappear on stage with the BB's at this point after his second Landy stint began, and I think Carl discussed this in the interview as well. I don't remember the name of the show, but it was a Larry King-style thing with a viewer call-in segment. If I recall correctly, there were actually a few fairly knowledgeable fans who called in. I recall some lesser-known albums being brought up during the show.


This is often put about, this "alliance" of some sort. But I've heard from a number of people, including people who were more familiar with the actual BB's, who have said that in reality the "alliance" that pitted Al and Mike against Carl and Dennis really only lasted a few years in the late 70's, during the contentious 1977-1978 period or so. I've heard several different people say that, in fact, by the 80's and certainly into the 90's, Al and Carl were much closer than any of the other band members.


This is certainly the case, although I think Al or any of the BB's could be cut *some* slack in light of the non-musical problems Dennis brought to the band. That probably made it difficult to recognize, let alone champion Dennis' work at the time. Interestingly, in that Goldmine interview from 1999 or 2000, Al not only touts Dennis' work, but goes so far as to say it was better than a lot of what the BB's were doing.

There are things to criticize, though most of those things are in relation to past events. It may have cost Al a cushy gig of playing 180 shows per year, but being on his own has seemed to liberate him to some degree. Some of the things he's said in recent years are things I can't imagine him saying in the 80's or 90's, and I don't think it's a case of sour grapes or anything.

Al is the only one of the BB's I've met, and that happened in August of last year at a little benefit show he did. I just spoke to him a bit before and then after the show. He struck me as a really humble, low key guy. But at the same time, I got the sense that he was aware and proud of his legacy and the legacy of the BB's. He didn't seem big-headed in the slightest, and didn't seem to need to remind anybody of the BB's importance. But he's aware of it.

I used to sort of feel bad for Al that he wasn't able to tour regularly or be more active, particularly in a live setting. But I think the fans who can't see his shows are the ones that we should feel bad for. I think Al must still be quite well off if he's having custom-made hot rod cars done for him. So I don't feel bad for him in that sense.

At this point, what I would criticize Al for more than anything is the lack of an appearance of a solo album or any substantive new material to release. We've had a live album (a very good one), and a few stray tracks here and there. He's surely got enough solo-ish material in the can recorded during the BB days that he could put together a "solo" album comprised completely of stuff that's already been recorded. A related item that I also could criticize is that he's clearly not getting a huge amount of bookings with his current live show (even if we assume he's doing some "private" shows we never hear about), so I'd like to see some sort of stripped-down live show with him and maybe just a few others in a small band performing some BB rarities. If he's not able or willing to do some huge countrywide tour of little clubs, he could just do a gig or two of that sort and put it on DVD or something.

Al is probably the most "normal" guy in the BBs. He's a great singer and hasn't lost his voice very much. Even Brian seems to have nothing bad to say about him. I remember an Interview from '95 where Brian calls the BBs "a$$holes" but when asked about Al, he says that Al is a real nice man and that he has nothing against him.
In that BBC-documentary from 2004 (I think) Al seems real upset that he isn't allowed to talk to Brian (whom he calls his best friend). And also in that doc. there's one of my all-time favorite BBs-interview parts, and it comes from Al. They talk about "Surfin' USA" and Al says "Mike Love will tell you that he wrote them (lyrics to "Surfin USA")", then the camera switches to Mike (I believe he was in England at that time) and he claims exactly that.....Cool moment from Al...

 :hug  I love Alan.
I found an interview from 1998 Bam

http://www.angelfire.com/la/Beachboysbritain/alint.html


He kinda kept to himself and didn't really get too much into the bickering until after Carl died.

That's a great interview - very articulate and sincere.  Thanks.

It's a real shame his endeavour got the legal flack it did - he might have gone on to reveal the band's true artistic legacy under the tarnish that Mike keeps producing.

I like Al Jardine a lot and I definitely think he's a "good guy" -- and that's based on first-hand experience. Al is a bonafide gent and a "real" human being, not some stuck-up star on a fame trip. He'll take time out to sign autographs and shake hands after shows. "Humble, low key guy" is a very apt description. He's very much a family man, as well. No complaints here.

I can also confirm what HeyJude said about Carl and Al's relationship. They often shared dressing rooms in the '80s and '90s.

Go Al.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/Compost/AlsHead.jpg)

Al seems to be one of the nicest people who ever lived. When you hear him talk you hear kindess flowing out. Just to look at him you see a great man.

I love his songs, his voice, his playing, and his excellent beard that he had. It was the best in the band in my opinion.

Two words: football huddle

Al is a bit odd, at least going by interviews with him.  He praises Brian's genius, but is often more pointedly critical of Brian's work than Mike Love.  He's anal retentive, what with his obsession with "Loop De Loop" and the cardboard quality of the "Love You" sleeve.  He seems to not see the forest for picking at the trees.   However, I have read he has the most impressive collection of Beach Boys memorabilia of any of the band members, so he must appreciate what they accomplished.

It would have been interesting if Al had been as obsessed with completing the Smile album as he was with "Loop de Loop."  I wonder what he would have done with those tracks?

Al seems like a great guy but only gets topped by Bruce...cos lets face it people, Al is a bit of a flip-flopper.





:p

Face it: Bruce won the lottery.

What a great picture of Al that is. 

What do you mean by that?

At the time just prior to Carl's illness in 96/97...Al and Carl had become somewhat "enstranged" due to issues regarding Mike and BB's concert productions. It seems Al was none too happy with Carl's tendency to allow Mike free reign at that point in time...this led to Al's eventual freezing out...or departure from the BB's...call it what you want. These events are examined in the upcoming Dave Marks book.

Jon, when is David's book up for purchase :)?  I can't wait to get my hands on a copy!

I'm just saying Bruce is a really, really nice guy, 'maybe' partially due to his realization of how lucky he was to have been a member of the Beach Boys.  Something about the fickleness of fame has the potential to either enhance positively or mess up someone's view of their place in the world.

hi Carly...the DM book is being edited and is still a ways off from being ready. Its going to be filled with really great stories and some truly amazing photos of the early BB's days. We're looking at a late spring/early summer release. You can always reserve a copy by sending your contact info to...CSMproductions@aol.com

And thanks for asking!
JS

Thanks for the info Jon!  I will send my info and be standing by....
Thanks

That email address should read...
CSMproductions@aol.com

Jon, in the early nineties Dave sold a bunch of his memorabilia, including (I believe) a lot of photographs taken on the early tours, to a private collector who ran (and I assume still runs) a record shop in Sherman Oaks.  Did  you have access to any of that material?

Also, while working with Dave, did you have any concerns about being assualted with urine-filled squirt guns or other urine-related weapons?  There is a history there.

Haven't you heard of Urine Therapy?  :D

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/urine.htm

The guy with the photos you speak of is Kip Brown...I knew him awhile back...i don't think he has the store anymore. No...Kip isn't involved in this book...and we already have more photos than we'll ever be able to squeeze in the book. Dave's mom, and several other friends and Hawthorne neighbors have shared things with us...truly cool things no one has ever seen. We have a good number of live photos from the '62 -'63 period. People are gonna dig it.

As far as urine filled squirt guns...no...but man i've been laughing my butt off at all the stories Dave has been telling me for the last two years. The Dennis stories alone are incredible...and there's a few really good ones about Mike, Carl and Brian too. In general Dave is a VERY funny person...even though he's been sober for more than 6 years...its kind of like a party being around him. There were times I thought my gut was gonna bust from laughter...I hope that translates well in the book. BTW...there are some truly horrific bits as well...a lot of Dave's closest friends died along the way. I think the book displays a huge range of emotion...even more than my book on Dennis.

He also had one of the Pendleton shirts- the most amazing Beach Boys artifact I've ever seen.

Dave certainly comes across as a funny guy...glad to hear he's keeping that urine clean for pure squirt-gun fun these days!  I wish Dennis had done the same.

Can't wait for your book.

The photos Kip bought were from a batch taken by other people...namely Capitol and their hired photog...but David still has his personal candid photos - we found a bunch in his storgae unit last year that hadn't seen the light of day in 40 years.   Also, there were multiple copies of all those photos David sold, so Kip doesn't have anything, photowise, that Jon didn't have access to.  There was only one photo David could not find, which was a very cool shot of Jan, Dean, David, Mike and Brian taken backstage and Jon was able to get a copy from Fred Vail - who also had a copy from the photog who took the shot. 

Kip doesn't quite understand the difference between buying a hard copy of a memorabilia photo and actually owning the copyright and rights to reproduce it - same goes for those home videos. There are a lot of people he's led to believe he's got something amazing but I could print you out a copy of pretty much anything Kip has and there'd be no difference. He's gone as far as to actually sell TV programs the rights to reproduce photos that are property of Capitol Records.  The Pendelton on the other hand, that's his fair and square.

In terms of a really good interview with Carl, i'd be very interested to know what Boyd has left in the "unused" cans from the "Making of Stars and Stripes" documentary.  I'll bet there's some great stuff in there...

Great to have you here, Mrs. Marks!

In honor of your presence I will leave off with the jokes about Dave's comportment at ages 14 and 15.  I assume you've had more luck reigning him in than Murry Wilson did.

While we wait for the book, does Dave have any personal favorite recorded moments?  Also, is there any particular place on record we can really hear his voice in the mix?  Also, when can we expect to see a Markmen release on CD?

Surfer Joe - no need to curb the jokes...I know as well as anyone that David doesn't take himself all that seriously...or least not back then, anyway. Just don't compare him to Pete Best or diss his guitar chops...everything else is fair game as far as I’m concerned. And yes, David has responded better to my pleas than he did to Murry's...I think it's because I shave my legs.   Murry always refused to go that far.

Let's see...favorite recording memories:  He says Our Car Club was his favorite session.  He doesn't really like the words, but it's his all time favorite track.  He says it was an amazing experience to be able to get into that groove with Hal Blaine on drums....especially after the way Brian always raved about Hal's playing - that made it even more special for him to actually get to play with Hal on something more substantial than just an over-dub (Hawaii). 

As for his voice in the mix - Summertime Blues would be the most obvious.  That's him doubling Carl on the high lead.  There are a few instances where he and Dennis are doubling a background part, but in order to identify those parts, it requires a more sophisticated ear than I have.  Jon would be better at answering that question.  But for the most part, his singing was limited to live performances...there were no songs in a live show where everyone else was singing except him - with the possible exception of Surfer Girl where Dennis would take his place up front to sing and David would play drums. 

As for the Marksmen release, interesting you should ask that question.  I've been in touch with Sundazed about it since they put out 3 Marksmen tracks a few years ago and they haven't said NO but haven't gotten back to me with a YES, either.  If I don't get a commitment from them soon, then I’ll go ahead and just put the collection out on David's own label. The Marksmen recorded 14 solid tracks so there is enough for full CDs worth of music and I think it would be a shame to not have it available considering the praise it's given in Jon's book.  I think people will be a little surprised about who came forward as an admitted Marksmen fan.

 :lol You're going to fit in great on this board!


That's one of the all-time great backing tracks.  I used to know some of the Surfaris and I tried to get them to cover it as an instrumental.  Which guitar is Dave playing?



I don't think I ever knew he drummed on "Surfer Girl".  I wish a good complete show with Dave would turn up on film.  Any hope of that?


The few things I've heard sound really great.  It's not your usual surf stuff- it has an unusually inventive overall sound and (of course) great guitar work.  I can't wait to finally hear all of it.  I wonder if Dave had stuck around if he might have brought a harder guitar-edged sound, especially on albums like Smiley Smile and Wild Honey.

I really hope you'll stick around here and field some questions- there will be some good ones, especially when our moderator aeijtsche (just spelled that from memory!) turns back up.  I know we have to wait for the book on some stuff, but any special memories from Dave's post-BB session work?

I'll continue this up on the thread you started above. 

Getting this one back on topic regarding Al Jardine...David and Al played together a few weeks ago as well as back in December.  They are great duo...and probably the most authentic sounding of the configurations out there.  To hear Jardine's amazing vocals and David's guitar brings the best of both worlds together, IMO.  I've never tried adding a photo...hope this works.

BTW, Al, David and Dean Torrence will be doing a show together in October aboard a Carnival cruise out of Long Beach...it should be a great trip if anyone can make it. 

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LOL! Carrie, that was too funny!  Welcome to the board!

I agree with this whole post.  Your line about the intro to "Santa Ana Winds" is hilarious -- as is the intro itself.  I really love the song, but what was Al (and every one else) thinking?  "Here in Southern California, there is a weather condition known as the Santa Ana Winds."  Makes me laugh just thinking about it!  In a way, it's so dorky it's actually cool.

Carrie...thank you soooooommmmmuuuuccchhhh for posting this photo . It is historic!!!!!! It's like a pic of Gram Parsons and David Crosby or Ringo and Pete Best together...but this is the real deal!!! thank you...I really love it ...it has true love vibes all over it....

Yes! Could it be a step to the next incarnation? Let's see, we have Mike & Bruce, and Al & Dave. Now if we can just get Mike to talk to Dave, and Bruce to talk to Al...

Actually, David and Mike reconnected last fall after not talking for a good 5 or 6 years, which was actually kinda nice.  When the M & B holiday show was in our area last December, David sat in with them at a couple of shows.  In fact, he played with Mike and Bruce and then played a show with Al Jardine just 3 days later. 

Yes again! OK, we've established that Mike, Bruce, and David can play together. And Al and David can play together. So, if my algebra is correct, then I need Mike and Bruce to talk with Al, and David to talk with Brian! There, everything's settled. I'll make the reservations. When do they start?

There's no issues with Brian and David either.  You should go to Jon Stebbin's website (realbeachboy.com) and read his essay on the Landmark weekend's events last May...it's a great story and he covers David and Brian's reunion of sorts. 

This shot was taken last August (photo credit goes to Dennis Diken).  Brian was actually really sweet,  he kept telling David he was his buddy.

I think that just leaves Mike & Bruce making nice with Al & Brian.

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That's a very warm, genuine picture.  Thanks for sharing.

Wind Chime... I'm glad you dig the Al and Dave photo but your comparison to Pete Best and Ringo, or Gram Parsons and David Crosby is fundementally off base. David and Al played a ton of shows together as Beach Boys in 1963, and more in 1997...and they recorded together on two BB's LP's "Surfer Girl" and "Little Deuce Coupe"...both guys are on many classics like "In MY Room" and "Catch A Wave"...and we have at least five or six photos in the DM book of the BB's performing in 1963 with both David and Al on stage...Al is on bass replacing Brian...Dave on guitar...they even shared a microphone for a lot of that year. Remember Pete Best isn't on a single Beatles hit or LP...and David is on the first four BB's LP's...and a bunch of the BB's early hits. Dave's the kind of guy you can say practically anything to...but the Pete Best comparisons bug him because they make no sense. Best was thrown out just before the Beatles hit the big time, and never spoke to any of them again...David quit the BB's after they had four hit LP's, and a string of hit singles, but still remained friendly with all the BB's...big difference. 

Ok well I'm not an expert in early BB's history as it is not my favourite period and I can accept your explanation...I had no idea they ever played together before... ::)

Pete Best is on Cry for a Shadow which is on Beatles Anthology 1 (yes I know way after the fact :3d)

Cry For A Shadow was from the Tony Sheridan sessions released long before the Anthology.

And everyone remotely interested in the BB should know more about their early history.

Al looks great for his age. He always looked like a little old man in a way, so that suited him well now for his old age.

Jon, is it true that Al ended up playing a lot of bass on those two LPs?  Maybe where we'd think Brian was playing bass, Al actually would be?

I think it's interesting that Al gets a co-writer credit (along with Dennis and Brian) for "South bay surfers", though he wasn't in the band officially I believe. I listened to the "Surfer girl" album and I think you can hear him in the harmonies quite often. SO were there six guys singing or did Dave take a step back ?

Well, sure, but the fact that Al and Dave shared stages and studios is not widely known.  I've been following the group for 40-plus years and didn't know it myself until a few years back.

Yeah Al played bass on quite a few Surfer Girl LP tracks including Catch A Wave, Surfers Rule, and Boogie Woodie...he usually played direct with Murry sitting right next to him...poor guy. Brian was playing keyboards on many of the SG tracks.

Al sang some on the Surfer Girl LP...things like In My Room and Catch a Wave...Dave may have doubled Dennis a bit on the third or fourth harmony...but very minimal. His job was to play the guitar which he did on all the tracks...including the acoustic on Your Summer Dream.

Al is ultra talented but quite an odd bird as well.

Jon, in a long-ago interview in Add Some Music, one of the Survivors (Dave Nowlen, I guess) claimed he did considerable background vocals on the Surfer Girl album.  Did Dave say anything about that?  Thanks.

That question of mine might not have made sense. I meant...did David Marks say anything about Dave Nowlen or any of the Survivors' presence?

Compared to what?  ^-^

It's just not "common" info to me...but thanks for clearing up the history... ;)

The Survivors claim has been disproved in the sense that only Beach Boys are on the released version  of Surfer Girl...except Hal Blaine plays drums on Our Car Club and timbales on Surfers Rule...and Maureen Love plays the harp on In My Room. Brian may have had Nowlen or others help out on some demo versions...but the hit BB's track only has five BB's on it...Brian, Mike, Dennis, Carl and David. And then Al is added to the mix for a good number of the LP tracks.

I assume Maureen is also on Catch A Wave...

Jon, what's the story about Our Car Club?  I mean, at some point it was a Honeys track, "Rabbits Foot."  But if it was originally a Honeys track, one would assume it would be an all Session Musician affair, at least based on the precedent of other BW non-BB productions at the time.  But if it was the Beach Boys plus Hal and presumably Steve Douglas and at least one other sax player, it would suggest it was originally a Beach Boys production, then went to the Honeys, then back to the Beach Boys.

Up until your comments about the boys playing on it, I had thought it was likely that Our Car Club was the first released Beach Boys song with no Beach Boys playing on it, due to my assumed Honeys origin.

Yeah that's an interesting point. Are you sure there is only the one version or one backing track? Dave Marks has a very clear recollection of playing on the track...the only time he played with Hal Blaine on a BB's session. Brian had been telling him what a great drummer Hal was...and on Car Club he finally got to play alongside him. Craig Slowinski would be a good person to pursue an answer to this. I'll mention it to Dave too.

Yes.  After the boys stop singing "Car Club, Car Club" on the multi, Chuck stopped the tape, but the girls take went a few bars later, so there's the end of the Honey's doubled group vocals, "rabbits foot, rabbit's foot."

David has a very clear recollection of making a mistake on Our Car Club...take a close listen to the guitar flub at 1:41 - 1:42.

If you know David, you'd believe without question that he never bothered to listen to any of these tracks close enough to pick up a detail  like this...if he's able to make reference to an error on the  rhythm guitar 45 years after the fact, it's because he played those bad notes. 

I'm definitely not disputing David's contribution, rather I'm hoping to clear up the origins of the song, if it was always a Beach Boys cut, always a Honeys cut, alternating, etc, etc.  Depending on exactly what was going on, it's still an intriguing first for Brian, as the first time the crew and the boys mixed.  Perhaps it was all wrecking crew, plus Dave?

Jon, as an addendum, do you have any idea who played the rhythm instruments on Surfer Moon, the Surfer girl LP cut?  I guess bass and drums?  The bass sounds terribly Pohlmany.

Sorry can't help you with Surfer Moon...calling Craig Slowinski...again. I've gotta correct my post above...Hal played timabales on Hawaii...not Surfers Rule as I erroneously stated. I do think the Surfer Girl LP is clearly the dividing line between the totally self contained Beach Boys, and when brian began bringing in outside people...although not to the degree many journalists have stated in the past. The SIX BB's are still doing most  of what's in the grooves.

As Carrie said Dave has an uncanny ability to have ignored this stuff since he was 15 and still pick out minute details in the tracks, and in the fingering of what was played by both he and Carl. One night I was sitting with Dave at his home in NY and I mentioned that I liked John Maus' arrangement of Unchain My Heart, the great Ray Charles cover that John played at the concert in which he sat in with Dave in May 2005. Dave then says, yeah he taught me and Carl how to play some other Ray Charles songs back in '59...like "What'd I Say"...then he picks up his strat and starts playing that really distinct riff that opens the BB's obscure live in Australia version from '64...like its right off the boot I first heard it on...some wierd little two finger hammer that Maus taught them, which obviously became the basis for the Beach Boys arrangement for What'd I Say...a live staple in '63 and early '64. Same goes for "Surfin'"...that's Carl playing Maus' Hideaway riff...and Surfer Girl is Dave and Carl strumming Richie Valen's Donna(which they learned from Maus, who was learning from Valens)with Brian's great changes added to that style. I was also blown when dave showed me the fingering they played on In My Room which was so different to how I'd been playing it for all those years. Anyway, my point is...he may not remember the when or where so well...but he really remembers the mechanics of how they did it.

That's really neat stuff.  It sure would be neat to get all the surviving Beach Boys together just to talk about stuff like that, who cares about playing live or something.  Just get Al, Brian, and Dave sitting around with instruments and I bet all kinds of information would flow out of them. 

The song that became "Our Car Club" was inspired by the Mongo Santamaria hit "Watermelon Man".  My guess is that Brian wrote the musical arrangement first, before any lyrics or possibly even any melody, and went in and cut it.  He cut it at Gold Star, and at the time, he was mostly using Gold Star for "outside productions" and doing all the BBs tracks at Western (except the few that were done at Capitol), but he used places like Conway, Radio Recorders, and Gold Star for "demos" such as "Baker Man" and "Cindy Oh Cindy".  But he also used Carl, Dave, and Dennis on at least some of these (including  "Surfer Moon" 1962 version and some other unreleased demo I can't remember the name of now).   So, for this track, he used Carl, Dave, Hal, Steve and Jay.  Sometime later, he finished it as "Rabbit's Foot" and put the Honeys on, scrapped that idea, then used it for the "Surfer Girl" album as "Our Car Club", with vocals done by the Boys at Western.  Just my idea, but it makes sense.

C-Man

Makes sense to me.

Gonna bump this, as this thread has become relevent again because of the Mike v Al thread.

I met Al in 1999 when he was touring Family and Friends. It was in Green Bay WI. My wife and I and Goofy Jeff were eating dinner at the casino where BBF & F were performing. This was the first night of  two that they were playing. My wife and I were staying for both nights, even tho we only had tickets for the first nights show.

We're eating dinner and my wife motions behind me, "look there's Al Jardine," she said. I turned and sure enough it was Al. I sort of nodded at him. He came over to our table. Actually sat and spoke with us for a about five minutes. He asked if we had eaten yet. We had. I believe that if we were just starting dinner he may have asked to join us. We had a nice brief chat and that was that. I did get to meet Carnie and Wendy after this show.

As I stated I didn't have a ticket for the second nights show. Goofy Jeff left to go home and my wife didn't plan on attending the second nights concert. Tickets were free, but you needed one to get in. About an hour before the show I made up a little sign in our hotel room which read " Need One Ticket." I told the wife I was leaving early to see if I could score a ticket.

I was waiting outside the hotel, holding my sign. Out of the hotel walks Al and his son Adam. He read my sign and said "Jeff you don't need a ticket, come on get in the limo." I rode to the stage with Al and Adam, was taken back stage, given a pass and then a front row seat!!! All due to the kindness of Al. 

It was a great evening.  Al was very cordial in the dining room and of course very kind with the limo ride and back stage pass. At all times he presented himself as a very nice, humble person.

The real Al Jardine is a crazy foda da mãe! Ya hear me?

That's a great story. :)

Didn't Hal Blaine play drums on Little Deuce Coup? The song that is.

Al seems like he's really cool.

Please tell me I didn't just read about a f*cking hummer on this message board.

Please.

Well you know the saying be clean with Al Jardine. It's funny but to me not touring around with the Beach Boys may have been a godsend personally. Again he was super nice to me when we spoke.

From what I am learning it seems that Carl kind of gave up after the 93 tour.

My guess us that even if he didn;t know he was terminally ill, it still would have impacted his outlook.  He probably stopped caring about stuff many months before he was diagnosed.

Both my parents died of cancer and there was a difniate change of attitude.

Carl is interesting to me because so little has been said about him. I think that from 65-83 he fought to keep the concerts fresh. I don't think Love and him were really on a different page until 1973-4 but he was the one who called rehearsals etc. From 74 on he fought the oldies, and fought for the new stuff along with Dennis. When they did do oldies, Carl and Dennis often gave them a new twist. At least until there addictions began to run out of control. As 1980 ended the show slowly got stale and Carl left. Peter's book mentions that Brian's stage performances were somewhat stifled by Carl around 78-9 but the author defended Carl's point of view while making it clear how this hurt Brian. When Carl came back in 1982 it was he who injected the setlist with a lot of new material and even some new versions of older material. This continued into 1983 but except for brief periods when there were new songs out Dennis' death put an end to that. If Brian, Carl, and Dennis began to put less into the group after Murry died, then it was Dennis' death that rendered the Wilson brothers completely passive about the shows and recordings. Not that they didn't participate, the 85 album had a lot of their work, but they didn't take control as far as production or general band direction. The 1993 tour seems to be the sole exception to this and from someone who saw it let me say that Carl AND Mike both seemed overjoyed by the reception the new setlist got. Was it cold feet in 1994? Was it complacency? Who knows but reading in Peter's book that it was Carl and not Mike who
1. Wouldn't do the Paley sessions, and
2. Blocked a Pet Sounds tour

This truly shocked me. Only the deaths in the Wilson family could explain it to me. Perhaps health played a role too by the mid 90s.

I always felt that, while Carl wanted to stretch out and perform more of the obscure artistic material, he knew that Mike Love was correct with his "give the people what they want" attitude, which was, play the songs that most of the people came to hear.

I'm not ignoring that the "unplugged" set was well received, and that a few more non-hit songs would've been welcomed, but how long would've that lasted? Al, and to some extent Brian, is experiencing that now. I know that we diehards will always have a problem with the traveling jukebox setlist, but we are in a very small minority at Beach Boys' concerts.

Well it's a balance that is and was needed. It was really the way they did the oldies that got me mad. Through 1973 they were played with a fresh attitude and they were only ones that were age appropriate. From 1974-6 they were still played well but as more car songs and BTTYS came in they began to look slightly silly. This was balanced until 1981 and the shows (admittedly rare) from 1977-80  where everyone was sober were still quite good. It's the cheerleaders, the car medley, the beach bum stageware since 81 that bug me, this is why they went downhill.

Speaking of Al Jardine, does anyone have the picture of Al Jardine, wearing the "Keep it Clean with Al Jardine" shirt??

thanks in advance

OMG I've been looking for this too

Yea.. I saw it a long time ago but can't find it at all now...

You can see a "preview" on Ed Roach's site:  http://www.roach-clips.com/