The Smiley Smile Message Board

I'm not trying to be negative, but today I was listening to 20/20 and realised that on this album, are the first 2 real "oh dear" songs for me as I listen through their catalogue. "all i want to do" and "Bluebirds over the mountain". I think its the absolute dad rockness of them, with the worst guitar tone i've ever heard.

Sure there are some amazing songs still to come on later albums but it's the start of the decline for my taste. I know some people love everything and fair enough, but i certainly seem to have a cut off point. I was just wondering if anyone feels the same and at which point they "lost you"?

A song with which I am unfamiliar.

As for me...usually The Beach Boys Love You is my cutoff, although I do enjoy a handful of tracks from later..."Good Timin'" every now and again, a handful of tracks from KTSA, "It's Getting Late" (oh, how I wish that production wasn't so 1985!)...and I actually have caught myself enjoying "Rock'n'Roll To The Rescue."

Yeah, I don't like "I Want To Know" either.

Beach Boys 85 is just about the only album I can not stand to listen to.

ha! I meant "all i want to do" and was thinking of another song title. Surely proof of how little I regard the song in question...

I was listening to 20/20 yesterday, hoping that it would finally all click and I would be able to love it as an album, but it's always been one of my least favourite from what is my favourite period in their career. It just feels such a hotch potch, even though there are stellar songs on there. I think the two you mention particularly drag it down, although Bluebirds might be much more bearable if it wasn't for the guitar solo.

The point I lose interest is post Love You. The few times I've listened to LA Light Album I've been pretty underwhelmed although I know many here sing its praises.

I can find interesting things to listen to in every album. That includes SIP (which I have enjoyed parts of unironically) and Stars and Stripes. No one denies, though, that things get horribly cheesy as the 70s wind down. Any album post Love You is packed with filler and pandering.

But this was also never exactly a fashionable or "hot" band -- with a couple of exceptions -- so I've never found the cheese as offensive as some do.

Consistency was never a hallmark of BB albums, either. Some of the earlier, more car and surf-themed ones are a bit of a slog for me, personally.

LA (Light Album) is the cutoff for me.  Never heard MIU in full either, and have no plans to do so.  

"All I Want to Do" and "Bluebirds" are indeed low points of the late-60s period, but the start of an actual decline? For my personal taste, not even close, considering they still had Sunflower, Surf's Up, CATP, Holland and Love You ahead of them. After that it can get pretty dull, but I still find Light Album, BB85 and Still Cruisin' rather enjoyable (if somewhat inferior to what came before, of course).

Yes, the guitar is biggest problem for me.  I think the production on this song handled differently could make it sound a little more like other quirky BB songs that I actually love. The little breakdowns simply produced differently would be great, but as they stand, I kind of wince at them.

Yeah, i'm afraid Friends is the last album I could sit through and not jump to the skip button. That definitely is significant for me considering how many others prior I'd never even have to contemplate skipping. Like I said though, there's some amazing music still to be made after this time.

I agree about "Bluebirds...", but "All I Want To Do" is just so balls-out hilarious (pun intended) that I love listening to it. Note that the track almost reaches for that odd orchestral thing that Dennis did so well just before the x-rated fade. It also has one of the funnier lines in the Beach Boys canon (see the "Beach Boys Lyric That Makes You Laugh" thread).

For me HOLLAND or IN CONCERT is sort of the end of what I liked about the post-Brian-centric version of the band. I'm not too impressed with the two albums marking Brian's return. After that, there are only select songs I actively like and nothing post-1980.

The last full BB album I have is Love You, but I have a lot of assorted later tracks on disc 4 of the GV Box Set and in mp3 format. I probably have most of the LA Light album in some format, but I don't necessarily have a strong clamoring to listen to it in sequence. 1977 is sort of the "End of the Show" for me. Not counting the Smile remake, have any albums been released by anyone in the BB camp in the last 34 years that were as good as the two we got (LY, POB) in that last golden year?

.

Personally I think BW88 comes close.

Well, if we're talking about solo albums, then POB is absolutely brilliant and I feel "Brian Wilson '88", "Orange Crate Art", "That Lucky Old Sun" and "Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin" are all better than anything that came after SURF'S UP in terms of consistency and realization of vision.

For that matter, Mike Love Not War (2004), Like a Brother (2000) and Postcard from California (2010)  are all commendable solo (ish) efforts from the rest of the group. All are considerably better than latter-period BB group albums.

The Beach Boys Love You and, by extension, My Diane from MIU.

This. And I really only like Dennis' songs off LA.

And aside from a couple tracks here  & there, their career started with Today!

Baww :( can't get behind that one at all.

 :o All Summer Long? Christmas Album? Shut Down Vol 2 is actually pretty amazing too. I'd give up everything post Surf's Up (the album) before I'd give up everything pre-Today.

I listen to them a lot less after Holland and not much at all with regards to MIU, KTSA, 85, Still Cruisin, SIP and the country jamboree.

In a way their early material seems to be a bit underrated among hardcore fans...

I'd add Little Deuce Coupe to the list of amazing pre-1965 albums, the first five songs being nothing short of breathtaking!

I stopped after BB85.  I did not buy any of the  post 85 records and outside of maybe "Somewhere Near Japan" I stand by that decision.

I would add, however, that outside of a handful of songs (except LA which has one bad song) that the post "Holland" output that doesn't suck is a guilty pleasure (songs from 15BO and LY).  I would really have to know you well before I would play a post Holland song not written by Carl or Dennis for you.

Exactly what i was going to say.

I don't think trumpeting your purposeful ignorance of a band's catalog is really a good idea on a board devoted to that group.

I am aware of the catalog, I just chose not to buy the material that I did not care for.

I don't think it's about trumpeting ones ignorance.  It's just a question, which essentially is asking, "have you actually really listened to everything the band has put out or are there periods/albums that you have passed on."   One can be a fan of a band/performer and still not enjoy and/or choose not to take part in the purchase and listening of certain releases.   With the Beach Boys for me it was LA.  I heard certain songs after that upon their initial release - Keepin' The Summer Alive, Getcha Back, Still Cruisin', Kokomo (for example), but none of them particularly made me want to go buy the album.  Some of them in fact made me afraid to buy the album.   A lot of people liked those songs though, and some people bought the albums and I'm guessing enjoyed them.  Kokomo as a song was obviously a huge hit - many people loved that song.  I'm glad they enjoyed it, and in all honesty, it is a good pop song, just something about it makes me want to throw up (but that's my problem). 
I have been crossing my fingers that should they actually do a reunion album they will come out with something really classy, something that will cap off their career in a beautiful way.   I want this as much for them as I do for myself as a fan.

KTSA- Death of the Beach Boys in my opinion.

I'm interested OneEar as to what you consider as "classy"? I hope it is something like Imagination, because I think that will be what it comes closest to. I'll be happy if it is just halfway decent. ;)

For albums, maybe, but they could still sing their asses off long after that. Had Brian been able to take fuller control back then, I think things would have turned out quite differently on an album level.

I agree, the Beach Boys doing BW88 would have been amazing. The touring group just lost a lot with Dennis gone and them doing greatest hits tours in autopilot until 1993 with the box set tour.

I don't know...it would be just as easy to argue that someone who purposely ignores the Beach Boys career after 1980 is more of a fan than someone who makes no distinction.

For me it's not about being incurious or uninformed or a dilettante, it's that as a fan, I've thought long and hard about what particular blend of ingredients go up to really define the Beach Boys for me, and then identifying the point at which, for myriad reasons, those ingredients stopped going together in any meaningful way.  Opinions can differ as to the location of that point, but I can't believe it's a controversial idea.  I believe it's an inevitable process to go through with any long-running band.

FWIW I'm just talking about new albums under the group name.  Still dig some Brian solo stuff, would have loved to have seen the group live while Carl was still around, etc.

I agree, the Beach Boys doing BW88 would have been amazing. The touring group just lost a lot with Dennis gone and them doing greatest hits tours in autopilot until 1993 with the box set tour.
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I don't know, the touring group in 1993 sounded awfully good.

It doesn't have to do with refusing to make distinctions -- only the deaf could do that. But if you're going to talk about the band and its history in a serious way, it's worth gaining at a passing familiarity with the 80s and 90s albums, if only to be able to laugh about them here. And the combined cost of doing so, at least according to Amazon, is about $15. (I exclude Summer in Paradise, which is for some reason considered scarce these days. You may download it illegally.)

I would also argue, quite seriously, that if you're at all interested in Mike's creative contributions to the band over the years, Summer in Paradise is surprisingly instructive. It's an album full of hooks without the songs to hang them on. Fascinating.

Oh yeah, even without The Beach Boys, it is a Beach Boys album through and through.

Double post

I mean something age appropriate, not more of the same "we're 70 but we're talkin' 16" kind of thing, something just true, honest, "them", something that isn't about the "image" as much as the music and who they really are in relation to it (not expressing myself well, but anyway...) - I just think they could do something that would be awesome, even at their age, etc.  I want to hear these old friends get around a microphone and sing - as Murry would say - from their hearts.

I don't find the age appropriate thing an issue. To this day all four sing mostly non-age appropriate stuff on stage most of every year. What is the difference whether it is a new song or old song? It is still 69 & 70 year old men performing those songs. I don't really want to hear them singing about age appropriate things such as constipation, taking Geritol, prostate examinations, playing bocci ball and shuffle board, etc.. Know what I mean? ;)

Sunflower is the last album I can listen to in its entirety.  After that, it's a song here, a few songs there, etc.

Damn! I thought we were supposed to be Beach Boys FANS!!!!!

Us? Definitely not  ;D

Well, as I said, I ddn't think I was expressing my thoughts very well,  however - do you really think I was meaning to say they should sing songs about Geritol, prostate examinations, shuffle board and constipation???   :lol

Even though there are a few gems that i love to death...I pretty much stopped listening to their music after 1970.
The songs that standout after 1970.. are "Til i Die".."All This is That".."The Night Was So Young" & "I Do Love You".

I have no BBs cutoff. I`m a shameless SC and SIP whore.

I CAN'T WAIT TILL SUMMER CAUSE IT'S GONNA BE A SUMMER OF LOVE!

HEY NOW - IT'S A LOVE THING!


Who the hell can argue with that????

Aside from Problem Child, in my heart of hearts I actually love EVERYTHING the Boys have ever done.

It depends on how the new album fares.

I listen to it all! And like it all!  But I do have to admit that BW's Pet Sounds Live never did hold my attention...great musicianship, and great to see live, but if I'm going to listen to Pet Sounds, I'm gonna listen to the original album.

I agree, and furthermore there is footwear out there with better performances than what was used for this CD. I don't think I've played it since I bought it that release week.

I totally disagree with this. If this board was narrowed down to only those that are well versed with every phase of the band's career, you'd have a much less diverse and interesting bunch of people here.

There are those fans, and their global perspective on the band is most valuable, but I'd argue not more so than the guy that just digs the early 'garage band' incarnation and can tell you exactly why he gets so fired up by it, or the stoner who stumbles on here to share his/her freaky ideas about Smiley Smile. It takes all sorts!

It's also worth remembering that The Beach Boys, more so than any other group, have an incredibly diverse array of manifestations from striped shirt all-Amercian boys to beardy hippies to tennis short-wearing Reaganites. It's just not realistic to expect fans to research every inch of the band's career. As far I'm concerned, Still Cruising might as well be by a different group and, as a result, I have no urge to listen to it .... (yet!)

Edit: As an afterthought, I think it is realistic to expect board members who don't like the 80s period to not thread crap every KTSA topic. I tend to keep my nose out of those threads, or the ones about the modern day Mike/Bruce incarnation of the band, because it's just not my thing. I may be wrong, but I think the board naturally functions this way anyway where people generally respect other's tastes. However topics like this one are a kind of grey area so we shall see  :)

The italicized bit echoes my feelings as well. I feel that way about much of the later stuff. I like some of what I've heard----it's just that I don't think of it as being by The Beach Boys. So shoot me!

My listening pleasure for whole albums ends with Holland. if it weren't for Holland it would end with Surf's Up. :=) 

No love for Carl and the Passions?

.

I love "Marcella" and "All This Is That" but the album as a whole has never grabbed me.

You have been shot, by me. ;) You can think any way you want, but you are wrong. Wrong because it is indeed The Beach Boys right up through Stars & Stripes. Truth is stranger than fiction. I'm amazed by what people rationalize in their heads.

You can't accept the basic idea of somebody saying Stars and Stripes may as well be a different band?  I don't think he's saying he thinks there are different members involved.  The argument isn't over whether a certain grouping of people is or is not legally enabled to use the name "the Beach Boys", we're talking about whether a given product meets a given fan's desired (subjective) level of aesthetic legitimacy.  You can't mandate that for another person.

I mean So Tough may as well be by a different band than Pet Sounds.  It's just a basically true sentiment.  Different people, different time, different aesthetics, different goals.  The Piper at the Gates of Dawn was made by a pretty different band than The Final Cut, even though they were both made by Pink Floyd.  This isn't an obscure concept.

The moment Brian Wilson isn't involved, then for me, it isn't the beach boys. He was everything that made them for me, right up to, and a bit past the friends album. He was the force, obviously using the bands talents as well, that shaped everything I love about their music. Harmonies, chord structures, productions, melodies, the lot. I just hear a massive dip in the quality of their music for me once he stepped back, and I mean as a whole. Little bird and forever are probably both in my top ten BB songs ever so I'm not saying no one else ever did anything, it's just I for one can't think of a band who so made it's name based on one persons humungous input, to be that band once said person has departed.

There's examples of it all over musical history. Stone roses once squire left. Some people don't regard Genesis after gabriel left etc. etc....

Personal taste/view, but anything Beach boys in the 80's onwards just isn't the Beach boys.

Nope, can't accept it, because it is indeed The Beach Boys no matter how much you try to rationalize that it is not. Even Brian was involved with that one. If one wants go get picky about no Beach Boys with no Brian, then accept that only two albums were made without his direct participation; L.A. Light Album (maybe minor participation) and Summer In Paradise. Even Still Cruisin' has Brian with In My Car and Wipe Out (where he is The Beach Boys). There is stuff that I dislike in the later era, but I don't listen to it often because I've rationalized that it isn't them. I mean really?

And the beautiful thing is you don't have to. Personal opinion has no boundary, definition or ruling.

Yeppers, but if you post nonsense then I'm posting my thoughts regarding it. Fair enough? :)

Absolutely  :)

You might not agree but dismissing a different opinion as nonsense seems a little narrow minded to me, even if you do put a Smiley face after it.

I think the question of what defines the identity of a band is an interesting one. Are the Beatles that released Free As A Bird in 1995 the same band that recorded Strawberry Fields? Presumably, because the single has 'The Beatles' stamped on the cover the answer would be yes, but then surely the Love album also deserves to be considered a Beatles album? Is The Beatles Rockband a product of the band, or the brand? If The Beach Boys changed their name to Beach in the 70s, yet released exactly the same albums, would they have still been the same band? Even after The Flame members joined?

Your idea of what constitues The Beach Boys relies heavily on the name and my idea of the band is defined more by lineup and aesthetic changes resulting in a sense of different bands at different times, some of which I choose to listen to, some of which I don't. I don't think you're wrong, but I don't think my perception is nonsense either.

It always seems to come back to that annoying reality that there are Beach Boys fans and there are Brian fans! As stupid as it may be, it is a persistant fact.  Toi be a Brian fan and not a Beach Boys fan is, to me, akin to claiming to love the planet earth but only its land mass and not the water. Or to love trees but dismiss the soil from which they grow. I could go on and on with such silly analogies but to fawn all over Brian and then dismiss anything that he was not heavily involved in as not The Beach Boys is kind of sad, but what do I care, the Beach Boys are The Beach Boys and someone can decide whatever they want but they can't change a damn thing.

I haven't seen but maybe one person say that Brian's involvement is the be all and end all of what constitutes "real" Beach Boys.  I think that would be a pretty hardline position to take.  I think many would agree that there are some great albums with very little Brian involvement, and some terrible albums with plenty of him.

I'm with you as far as Brian wasn't an entirely independent creative force within the band - of course not. The talents of the other members would've rubbed off on him and vice versa and arguing that whatever group of guys you dumped Brian into would've had the same magic is nonsense, but then I don't think anyone is necessarily suggesting that.

The music does change once Brian steps back though (inevitably) and you can't blame people for preferring the sound of the Brian centric band. You can try to encourage people to find the value in the albums where Brian is less present but it's all down to personal taste. As a relative Brianista, I can find something to enjoy in nearly all his solo albums - even the Disney one. My girlfriend heard me listening to it the other day and her response was basically "What is this s**t?!" Well, as much as I can argue that flashes of Brian's creative genius are to be glimpsed in the keyboard part to blah, blah, blah, if I were to hear the album cold with no vested interest in Brian's history etc. I suspect I'd react the same way! I think, as a hardcore fan, you can plumb the furthest depths of a back catalogue and still convince yourself you've struck gold, and if that's how you feel, there's no harm in it, but when you start trying to convince other people that Summer In Paradise is worthy of the band's name (an extreme example) you have to be prepared for differences of opinion.

I really tried but I cannot get past "Luau".

But still I come to post here.

If it is the Beach Boys on the 1985 record or CD label and because you say you don't like that record, so it can't be the Beach Boys, that is plain nonsense. None of what you state equals the original scenario. Let's end this. It is nonsense to argue over nonsense. ;)

i'm yet to make the leap from holland to love you yet.  Once I do, i imagine i'll stop there

I think the quality of the BBs went way down after Holland. Love You is very good, but it does have some lyrics that make me cringe. Having said that, there are songs on every album after Holland that are incredible.

15BO: Everyone's In Love with You, Had to Phone Ya, Just Once in My Life
MIU: Belles of Paris, Sweet Sunday Love, My Diane, Match Point
LALA: Good Timin, Baby Blue, Sumahama
KTSA: KTSA, Sunshine, Endless Harmony
BB85: Getche Back, Where I Belong, Male Ego
SC: Kokamo, Somewhere Near Japan, Make it Big
SIP: Slow Summer Dancin, SIP

However, with each album, there was more and more week cuts as well.

Totally agree with you here. While the albums did get weaker, still, there was some very good stuff on them to make them worth owning, especially with the well priced 2-fers. I have a different set of songs than you, but anyone listening to these albums would be sure to find their own favorites within.

I think you must have misunderstood my point, but something tells me there is little point explaining it it again.  ;)

I understood you perfectly. We can think whatever we want, it doesn't mean that the thinking is correct. If the 3 remaining Beatles release Free As A Bird as The Beatles, then it is The Beatles, whether we rationalize differently or not. Just like with The Beach Boys in concert. There used to a provision that at least 3 members had to be on stage for it to be a Beach Boys show. It is up to the band members to determine what is a group effort, not us.

Wow. You're extremely annoying.

After 'Love You' the albums are mostly dispensable although I thought BB 85 was pretty OK. My Beach Boys ultimate playlist contains very few songs that come after 'Surf's Up'.

I know, the truth hurts, doesn't it? I'll leave if you want, because I find quite a few of you annoying too. Nature of the beast, I suppose. Plus, if someone answers my post, am I supposed to not answer them, because my reply annoys you? Don't READ it!!! Now, bugger off. I'm grouchy today. ;)

15BO: Everyone's In Love with You, Had to Phone Ya, Just Once in My Life
MIU: Belles of Paris, Sweet Sunday Love, My Diane, Match Point
LALA: Good Timin, Baby Blue, Sumahama
KTSA: KTSA, Sunshine, Endless Harmony
BB85: Getche Back, Where I Belong, Male Ego
SC: Kokamo, Somewhere Near Japan, Make it Big
SIP: Slow Summer Dancin, SIP



Your overall view I concur with, but I'd disagree on the choice of songs on each of the albums you list.  As for LA, I'm so used to my customized version put together with outtakes and other stuff from that period, I've actually convinced myself this is more than half a good album.  The spoken section in Sumahama makes me hurl, however.  Wish we had the one on First Love  mixed with the singing on the BB version - though I've only heard a so-so boot of the Lovester's original

But there is a point where applying a band's name to a product becomes misleading, and open to debate. The Love album has The Beatles name on the side but many would argue that it is not a real Beatles album. I don't believe their thinking is incorrect, do you? The new Smile Sessions LP has Smile written on the side, which some might take exception to. It's just a label. It's not necessarily the truth, and the decisions of how that label is applied can be arbritary, misguided. Think about all the lawsuits that have taken place over ownership of a band name. Didn't The Beach Boys go through such a dispute? If Mike & Bruce had legally been awarded the right to tour and record under the name The Beach Boys, would all their subsequent albums be real Beach Boys albums? By your reckoning, yes they would, even if that decision was made in a courtroom.

Technically, Summer In Paradise is a Beach Boys record. I'm not disputing that. I'm arguing that for me, that later incarnation is not a band I identify as The Beach Boys. It's a golden oldies outfit imo, so I choose not to listen, and if somebody presented me with that album and said "Ha ha ha! You like this band." I would argue "No, I like a very different band" and this reasoning would not be wrong.

buddhahat, I totally understand where you are coming from with this, but in all honesty, while Love is not a proper Beatles album, it is Beatles music, performed by The Beatles. You used the proper word while discussing SIP, the word Technically. There are many bands who record new music without their classic lineups, and it is technically that band, because they are the members comprising the group at that point. My point here is that you recognize SIP as "technically" a Beach Boys album, while the OP that I responded to, said he rationalizes that the late era Beach Boys albums are not performed by The Beach Boys; hence, my nonsense comment.

Fair enough.

Man, you are taking things too literally. Comments made were by people/me saying that they virtually consider the influences, sounds, music, production etc. of latter day albums to be likened to that of a different band from earlier work. Nobody is saying the music is by a band that isn't/shouldn't be CALLED THE BEACH BOYS. I'm not saying put it in a different section in the music shop marked "NOT THE BEACH BOYS". You'd have to be stoopid to do that. Or stoopid to take it literally.

I only see what is written, not what is meant. You'd be surprised what people believe and what people take as fact, especially in here. Again, Don't READ it, if you don't like what I have to say.

How is one supposed to know if they don't like something unless they read it first? I wish I could un-read your comments, truly. Next time I'll start a thread and then never read any reply. Gotcha.

Anyway, I came here for something more than this.

Thank you. I am so glad you would do me that favor. From your first response to my post, you didn't agree with my position. You could have stopped there. I came here for more too, but shat happens, you know. I would have left it at my initial response, but you and others responded and I didn't want to be rude and not reply. That is kind of what we do here if you haven't figured that out yet. We discuss and give our opinions. I think we all wore this particular topic out considering the OP I addressed hasn't bothered to weigh in on it. ;)

That'd be great! And don't tell me to bugger off, lady, ya don't impress me a bit. I'm just the only person straightforward enough to state outright what pretty much, well, EVERYONE else is thinking. Quit trying to correct other people's personal views, it is embarrassing. It doesn't make you look smarter than anyone else, seriously.

Everything After 1970.
Standout Songs after 1970.. are "Til i Die".."All This is That".."The Night Was So Young" & "I Do Love You".

You lost, Bobby.

Listen I Spaceadet, I'll post and reply to whatever I damn well please. I have just as much right as anyone else in here to give my views. What are you, the censor cop? Don't like me, don't F'in READ my posts. Now for the second straight time, Bugger Off!!!

How am i lost?

He's probably just trying to say that there is quite a bit of good Beach Boys music post-1970. Surfs Up, Holland, Carl & The Passions are all great Beach Boys albums but they are a bit different from the earlier ones - more mature, with a social conscience.

These albums are different musically as well, because Carl, Dennis, Mike, Al and Bruce took the reins on 20/20 and Sunflower, which form kind of a midway point between the Boys' late 60's sound and early 70's sound. The group then took their sound to a somewhat darker, more socially-conscious place on Surfs Up. Jack Riely's management of the band and the lyrics he wrote contributed to this transformation, as did the departure of Bruce Johnston after Sunflower.

Then, with the addition of Blondie and Ricky to the band for Holland and Carl & The Passions, they morphed some more. The group had added two new members who were vocalists, songwriters, and instrumentalists, so this affected the sound of the group appreciably.

When they came back in 1976 with 15 Big Ones, they were the commercially-minded "fun and sun" group again, without the innocence and exuberance of the early to mid 60s. The Wilson brothers were in dire straits, and the band was never truly the same afterwards. 1977's "Love You," however, is one of their absolute best albums, although it is somewhat of an acquired taste.

All this to say that because of their vast catalogue, different eras with varying sounds, and eventual calcification into a shadow of their former selves starting in 1980, being a Beach Boys fan is all about evolving. When I first got into The Beach Boys, I was all about Pet Sounds and I followed that to what I could find of SMiLe, and then the rest of the group's late 60's output. I adored Sunflower, but Surf's Up, aside from "'Til I Die" and a couple other tracks, left me cold, and Holland didn't make that much of an impression on me. Now, I listen to those albums frequently and enjoy them quite a bit.

The 'bunk' Beach Boys albums, 15 Big Ones, M.I.U., Light Album, Keepin' The Summer Alive, BB'85, Still Cruisin', and Summer in Paradise are the last ones you will likely get into if you are anything like me. I've been a Beach Boys fan for many years and I've only recently decided to give KTSA and the 1985 album another chance. They make 15 Big Ones seem like a pretty good album by comparison, but there are a few scattered gems to be found on the later albums... and even when the group's songwriting and production is absolutely execrable, their harmonies always shine.

The Beach Boys dipped in quality for the first time with 15 Big Ones, got better with Love You, dipped again with M.I.U., got a little bit better with Light Album, and then went into their terminal decline with Keepin' The Summer Alive.

Now, someone is going to tell me that I lose... c'est la vie.

The albums you weren't quite feeling are the same ones that left me confused and dissatisfied :)
i wonder why people think surf's up and holland are their best albums but everyone has their own taste and opinion.

It's a social environment and you can choose to either respond to social cues or not.  Right now everyone is kind of slowly backing away from you towards the edges of the room and avoiding eye contact with you, while you loudly insist to no-one in particular that it's all because you are just "too real" for anybody to handle. 

Now you have made a few good points in the midst of a lot of frothing, and I for one wouldn't tell you to bugger off.  You could probably do with a bit more good faith in engaging with other people's opinions, and less coming from the position that everyone else is being disingenuous or dense.  Of course you are free to post "whatever you want", just as you're free to attend a party naked and covered in feces. 

Absolutely. I know there are some posters here who like the 80's and 90's Beach Boys albums that I can't stand.

One of my favorite things about music is how it grows inside you, like a tapeworm. Some of my favorite albums and songs are those that left me cold when I first purchased them. There is a certain genius in crafting an album like Surf's Up, which at first blush seems like a group of disparate songs, with most of the good stuff at the end. Later on, the other tracks on the album grow on you and you start to like them and see how they fit. (In my mind, these tracks are the non-Brian and non-Carl tracks).

At the same time, a song like "Til I Die" never gets old, and is so musically deep and unique that it is impossible for me to become tired of it. So at this point, listening to Surf's Up, which I've owned for more than a decade and which didn't tickle my fancy at first, is a treat. I enjoy it more than I ever have in the past and my ardor for it continues to grow.

Holland is a different kind of album from Surf's Up because it is more cohesive, but it only has a couple of 'stand-out' tracks upon first listen. This album is also a grower though; one great example is "Steamboat," which doesn't have a traditional commercial pop song structure and does not go out of its way to ingratiate itself with the listener. It just rolls lazily along and evokes the atmosphere of a steamboat on a river with cinematic ease. I barely noticed the song when I first acquired a copy of Holland, but now it's one of my go-to Beach Boys tracks.

I love the fact that the group at that time had the balls to make "Steamboat" the second cut on the album - not that the song is bereft of hooks or melody, but it doesn't try too hard like "It's OK" or some other Beach Boys tunes.

There are very few forced smiles on Surf's Up, Holland, or Carl & The Passions.

Most listeners get into The Beach Boys because of Brian's superlative, adventurous songwriting and production work, first and foremost. When Brian receded into the background, the group changed into a somewhat different animal. In hindsight, it is a small miracle that The Beach Boys managed to consistently remain viable creatively, if not commercially, for almost a decade after SMiLe collapsed.

The post-Brian Beach Boys were lucky in that they had five extremely talented band members who were champing at the bit to unleash their creativity by the time he abdicated. The early 70's influx of new blood and the group's willingness to change with the times, however belated and woefully brief, resulted in something new and different that you may grow to appreciate more with time.

I stopped listening after Beach Boys 1985...I think The Beach Boys died with Dennis.

Agreed, and Dennis' lack of presence on Keepin' the Summer Alive greatly impacts that album as well.

ok what are the standout tracks from wild honey? sunflower? friends? and holland for you?
(curious to see what your taste is like)

Bingo.

Sounds like a wonderful idea. Where's the party? ;) Let's let this die, like The Beach Boys apparently have.

Haha. Ah bless.

Wild Honey:
- Aren't you Glad
- Country Air
- Let the Wind Blow
* Can't Wait Too Long (from the twofer)

Friends:
- Little Bird
- Meant For You
- Friends
- Busy Doin' Nothin'
- Wake The World

20/20:
- I Can Hear Music
- Time To Get Alone
- I Went To Sleep
- Be With Me
* Break Away (from the twofer) - the mix of Hawthorne, CA is incredible. Great song.

Sunflower:
- Slip on Through
- This Whole World
- It's About Time
- All I Wanna Do
- Cool Cool Water

Surfs Up:
- Long Promised Road
- Feel Flows
- Surfs Up
- Til I Die
- Disney Girls
* Honorable mentions - Day in the Life of a Tree and Disney Girl

Holland:
- Steamboat
- Big Sur
- California
- Trader
- Better Get Back In Bed

Carl & The Passions:
- You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone
- Marcella
- All This is That

15 Big Ones:
- Rock and Roll Music (used to find it mediocre, now I appreciate its demented quality)
- Palisades Park
- Just For Once in My Life

Love You:
- Roller Skatin' Child
- Honkin' Down The Highway
- I'll Bet He's Nice
- Airplane
- The Night Was So Young
- Mona
- Johnny Carson (when Brian mentions wanting to do a "rock and roll" album, this is what I think of).

M.I.U. Album:
- My Diane
- Pitter Patter

L.A. (Light Album:
- Good Timin'
- Love Surrounds Me
- Angel Come Home
- Shortenin' Bread

Keepin' The Summer Alive:
- Goin' On
- Keepin' The Summer Alive

The Beach Boys (1985):
- Male Ego
- It's Getting Late
- Maybe I Don't Know

Brian Wilson (1988):
- Baby Let Your Hair Grow Long
- There's So Many
- Rio Grande

Still Cruisin'
- In My Car (sounds like an update of Honkin' Down The Highway. Similar drum beat! Great stuff, love the synth bass).
* Honorable Mention: Somewhere Near Japan (Much of this album doesn't sound like it was given a proper mix down).

Summer in Paradise:
- The Blessed Silence (between the tracks on the CD)

wow interesting but overall you like most of the ones i like. :)
this is mah favorites from each album.

Wild Honey:
-Wild Honey
- Aren't you Glad
- Country Air
- Let the Wind Blow
- A Thing or Two
- Darlin'
-  I'd Love Just Once to See You
- Here Comes the Night
- How She Boogalooed It

Friends:
- Passing By
- Little Bird
- Busy Doin' Nothin'
- Anna Lee The Healer
- Diamond Head

20/20:
- Do It Again
- I Can Hear Music
- Bluebirds Over the Mountain(Don't see why anyone would hate this song)
- Time To Get Alone
- I Went To Sleep
- Be With Me
- Never Learn Not to Love
- Break Away

Sunflower:
- This Whole World
- Add Some Music to Your Day
- Deirdre
- Forever
- Our Sweet Love
- At My Window
- All I Wanna Do
- Cool Cool Water

Surfs Up:
- Surfs Up
- Til I Die



Holland:
- Steamboat
- Sail On Sailor
- Funky Pretty

Carl & The Passions:
- Marcella
- All This is That

15 Big Ones:
- Rock and Roll Music
- It's O.K.
- Had To Phone Ya
- Just For Once in My Life

Love You:

- I'll Bet He's Nice
- The Night Was So Young
-- Let's Put Our Hearts Together

M.I.U. Album:
- Belles In Paris
-Sweet Sunday Kinda Love

L.A. (Light Album:
- Shortenin' Bread

Keepin' The Summer Alive:
- Goin' On


The Beach Boys (1985):
- I Love You
- IIt's Just A Matter Of Time
- Getcha Back


Still Cruisin'
-  Still Cruisin' (Extremely Catchy, Don't know why it gets so much flack)
- Kokomo

I don't understand why people argue about opinions. There is no right or wrong answer to this topic. Everyone has the right to like and hate whatever they want.

I have to say, a lot of the tracks you included are ones that I now wish I had included! So much great music.

While I'd normally agree, saying the band tanked in 1970 is just... I mean... no! :(

Re: "Bluebirds": Why indeed?! The "Dutch version" is even better.

Re: "Still Cruisin'": Again, agreed. Lovely stuff. Although... oh never mind.  :-D

Probably around LA.

I can give you ten RELEASED tracks from later than LA that I'd miss:

Where We Belong
Somewhere Near Japan
Still Surfin'
Strange Things Happen
Santa Ana Winds
It's Gettin' Late
Keepin' The Summer Alive
California Dreamin'
Male Ego
She Believes in Love Again

And some of those I'd only just miss. The again, there's very little I'd  miss on MIU (Pitter Patter, My Diane, maybe Winds of Change and maybe Woncha Come Out Tonight - at a push.)

SNJ is a great song, I wish I wrote it. Best thing they've done, IMO, from Love You to the Paley sessions of the 90's....maybe even since.

Well, uh.....yes they did......in some ways....IMHO 

I tried to like every one of their albums after Sunflower.  I've got most of 'em on vinyl.  Once in a while I'll throw one on and try to "get it".  Hasn't happened yet.  Doesn't mean I think it stinks.  Most of it sounds a bit pretentious to me.  It's a matter of taste, that's all.

Gotta say, I like 20/20.   Better than Sunflower if you guage it by # of times I've played it. Like Surfs Up.   Love HOLLAND and Love You.  Like 85.  Like 2nd CW lp. Like LOS.  Like SNJ.

20/20 is a good album. It almost plays like a compilation though, between the differing production aesthetics of the new songs and then the sound of the SMiLe songs tacked on the end. It is their Still Cruisin' of the 60's in a way, with various members bringing their songs to the table with their own production. I find Sunflower to be more cohesive and pound for pound I like it better but 20/20 is nothing to sneeze at.

It is pretty cool how much the band evolved between 20/20 and Sunflower; I think if Warners had accepted the first version of Sunflower, it would have been similar to 20/20 in the ways I mentioned above. Sunflower is probably the high point of the group as collaborative songwriters and producers. Surfs Up a little less so, with Dennis being excluded from it.

Man, I would kill for that never-released DVD-Audio of Surfs Up. It's worth listening to Sunflower, Surfs Up, Holland, and Carl and the Passions on a surround system through a matrix decoding technology like Dolby Pro Logic; the albums spread out and become three-dimensional.

I'm glad u have the same good taste :)

I don't like much of anything they did after 1974 really not counting Dennis. I will listen to the 1976-82 stuff once in a while, but other than the Don Was songs transplanted onto Paley backgrounds and SNJ I don't care if I never hear the post Dennis stuff again.

I stop at Love You (well, Adult Child might be more accurate) with a couple exceptions on a per-song basis. I think I've tried to listen to all of their albums up to 1985 before but I honestly can't remember -- so even if I have that's not really a ringing endorsement of the quality of the material! If only the Wilson brothers had gone off to do their own creative, artistic thing... which, in all likelihood, would've probably just resulted in what happened when they were together for much of this era anyway: excessive drug use, little musical/artistic output! But then, I suppose Love You is sort of like a Wilson bros. album, right? Oh, what might have been!

I listen to almost nothing on SU/Holland/Passion or Big Ones and probably little after. I like a few tracks on BB '85 I consider 20/20 an awesome record, but only like 1 or 2 tracks from Sunflower.

I stop after Stars N Stripes  ;)

1 or 2 tracks only? ??? Which ones are they?

AIWD of course, then a mix between Cool Water and sometimes OSL.

BB85 is where it ends for me.  From there on, it's all about Brian.  I'll give anything he does a chance (but I'd rather he stick to doing original projects instead of what he's done the last two outings).  Any of Brian's original solo projects are easily head and shoulders over anything that the Mike and Bruce show could manage at this point.  And when Brian is at the top of his game (as on BWPS or TLOS), he's as good as vintage Beach Boys for my money.

Holland was their last consistently great album. After that each record would contain one or two gems, around 50% good to listenable songs and a chunk of crap.

Yeah, but up through BB85, I'm willing to dig through what ever crap there is to get to the gems.  

Still Cruisin' is pretty much the end of one line and the beginning of antoher(BW solo). I don't love it, but I can listen to it. SIP..I have it burned on CD. I never listen to it, it's not on my computer. It's a dirty little secret that for some reason I'm loathe to rid myself of completely.

Oh bitch, please. You're embarrassing yourself again.

Anyway, to get to the topic at hand, I generally stop listening to the band after KTSA, but I like a few tracks after that, including Getcha Back and Kokomo. My favourite period of the band is the pre-Smile era. But I love the stuff after that as well. Truth is, besides a few specifically conceived albums, The Beach Boys were more of a singles act. And the whole Rolling Stone-generated album-as-statement focus has done a lot to harm the reputation of the band, and many others who didn't hew to that scheme, including many black artists.
People go off about Sunflower as a cohesive album, but I think  it only seems that way because of Desper's sonic sheen overlay. The songs were recorded over a long period of time, and were the band's third pick of their available material, to satisfy Warners. Any of those tunes could have ended up on any number of album lineups in that era. Sunflower, 20/20 and Surf's Up are just great mixtapes of BB productions from that era.

I stop with Love You, the pickings after that just seem too slim for me, Brian's material just doesn't seem like he is being allowed to do what he wants with it, the arrangements are pedestrian. They lack character and commitment. I move over to Brian's solo career after Love You.

Hardly listen to anything pre-Today! and nothing after Love You. I dont listen to 15 Big Ones either, maybe Just Once In My Life gets some play now and again.

This seems too common. You folks are really missing out. To each his own, though (I GUESS.)

I go all the way through Stars & Stripes, too, although I tend to listen to the late '60s-early '70s material the most frequently. I listen to Dennis, Carl, David, and Al's solo stuff, and some of Brian's as well.

I stop with Surf's Up but if I am ever in a later mood, I will play So Tough or Love You.

Yeah those early albums are pretty darn good. MIU, LA, KTSA are all deeply flawed  (as were Love You and 15 Big Ones) but are worth hearing once in a while.

There's something about the weaker tracks on LA (Goin' South. Sumahama, Lady Lynda, Shortenin' Bread - okay, not Here Comes The Night!) that I like.  I don't get that with the later albums or MIU.

I stop listening after 1971.  Surf's Up is the end of the line for me, and it leaves me satisfied with the Beach Boys catalog being exceptional until that point. For me, anything up until 1971 is fantastic music, capable of standing up to some of the best artists of that period.  Beyond that...I just can't get into them.  I've tried listening to Love You, it just doesn't do it for me.  I just don't think it's very "mature" or whatever like some of their work during the early 70's.

That in mind, Surf's Up is, in my opinion, one of the greatest Beach Boys album.  Some people here have said it's not cohesive, or just not moving, but I'm just entranced by the music on that album.  Being younger than probably most people on this board, I'm someone who is interested in a lot of modern indie stuff, and willing to expose myself to other "weird" alternative genres.  And for me, Surf's Up fits in this category.  The sounds on it are so progressive...the lyrics are eerie and moving...they're truly poetry (barring Student Demonstration Time  ;D).  Surf's Up has some progressive rock tones to it, I'm thinking of the interesting (flute?) and guitar solo on Feel Flows, and I absolutely love the Welfare Song.  A Day in The Life of a Tree may be one of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard...the lyrics are so haunting, and unlike a lot of people, I take that track very seriously.  Of course, there's Til I Die and Surfs Up, which just add a magnum opus ending to the album.

In addition, Long Promised Road and Disney Girls are also both beautiful tracks.  I think this album really needs to be re-evaluated with some modern insight shed upon it.  It's so advanced...it's really impressive what the group did with this album.  I think a lot of people on this board just aren't intrigued by it because of how "alternative" it really sounds...but for me, it's almost flawless.  Reminds me a bit of Radiohead to be honest...

I feel the same about the album as well. It's no secret that my favorite period is SS thru Holland, and SU might be my favorite. Depends on the day, I guess.


I don't really listen to the pre Pet Sounds albums that much, although ASL is actually my favorite pre-PS album.

I've been a fan for 11 or 12 years, but it's only in the past few months that I've started seeking out the pre-Today! albums.  They really are uniformly enjoyable.  There are a lot of reasons to treat 1965 as ground zero for "rock album as cohesive statement", and not just from the Beach Boys, but All Summer Long in particular surprised me with how solid it was.

Surfer Girl is another incredible work....minus a few cheesy songs, it is full of classics.
_____

My cutoff point is at Love You. I haven't bothered to buy MIU or anything past it....I will one of these days to be a completist.

(actually, though I don't have the album, I really dig the song 'Summer In Paradise' (as heard on youtube). Call it a very guilty pleasure, but I really like it! - I only listen to it with noise canceling headphones with the room door locked and house alarm on....just in case :lol)

It may be arrogant of me to state this, but I don't think you can fully appreciate the Beach Boys if you don't "get" the All Summer Long album.

While I couldn't disagree with you more regarding the BBs post 71 stuff (but hey, I'm a Summer In Paradise fan) I can't agree with you MORE regarding Surf's Up!  I find it pleasing that in regards to your age, you probably approached the album without all the "pre-baggage" that a lot of us older fans were likely already steeped in before we ever got around to Surf's Up. The main beef with the album seems to mainly have to do with Student Demonstration Time (how dare Mike Love try to write about something topical) and the fact that Dennis pulled his songs off the project. Fine, that sucks, sure, but he did have 4 songs on Sunflower and then had 2 on CATP and then 2 on Holland, so he didn't exactly get screwed.

I happen to feel that Surf's Up has the best sequence of any post Pet Sounds BBs album. The songs just seem to tell a story when rolled out all together. I would normally have problems with SDT but it just feels SOOOOOOOO perfect coming after Disney Girls. You have Bruce tucking us into bed with warm (yet bittersweet) nostalgia and then suddenly we're torn awake by sirens and Mike Love screaming into a megaphone! I also just LOVE LOVE LOVE that everyone slams Mike for trying to be hip and timely and cool with SDT when all he's really saying is "Hey, I know we're fed up with all this merda, but if there's a demonstration going on, you'd better stay home or the cops are gonna beat your ass or even worse: shoot you." !!!!!!

Mike just can't help being anything other than Mike and I love it.

Yes! I agree with you on the point of the sequencing! It flows so nicely...and it really helps expose the underlying themes of the album. In regards to the age thing, yeah, I had no preconceived feelings going into Surf's Up.  I'm only sixteen, and I've been a Beach Boys fan my whole life, but I've also been exposed to just so much music.  So when I heard the sounds on Surf's Up, I was really amazed the GROUP achieved these sounds in 1971, and not just Brian Wilson (and I'm definitely a HUGE Brian Wilson fan).  And about Student Demonstration Time! Yeah! I agree with you there too! I'm no fan of Mike Love, but that track does fit, and the whole megaphone voice thing I think is an interesting touch, especially just after Disney Girls.  Would I have preferred one of Dennis's songs to it on the album? Probably, I really love 4th of July.  But what's there is there, and I think what's there is really amazing.

I've listened to all, including the Symphonic Sounds album. More than likely I usually listen to anything from Surfer Girl on up, but I mainly listen to Today! through Love You all the way through each album. After that, its more a track-by-track basis: "My Diane," "Match Point Of Our Love," all Dennis' vocals on L.A., as well as "Good Timin,'" and "Shortnin' Bread." "Keepin' The Summer Alive," "Goin' On," "Still Surfin'," "Lahaina Aloha." I can usually listen to The Beach Boys '85 and Still Cruisin' all the way through and on occasion, different latter day tracks will creep in there.

Sums up The Beach Boys career quite nicely in one neat sentence!  :)

Agree completely!

It's encouraging to see such a wide range of likes and dislikes, all of which are valid (obviously!!), instead of blindly embracing everything Beach Boys.

I think the pre-Today! period is full of the most wonderful stuff. I have no trouble at all with the "sea" of instrumentals on Surfin' USA----it reflects a facet of BB music that regrettably was to be short-lived but should not be underestimated: the Carl--Dave guitar machine. 

I find it a little weird to treat Surf's Up as a cutoff, as I've always seen it as just a transitional record.  It has a little of the sonic sheen of Sunflower but it's really ground zero for the beard era. Sunflower still has lots of Capitol DNA in the production and pop leanings, but Surf's Up is where they really committed to the way of granola.  So Sunflower and Holland make perfect sense to me as cutoffs, since after each certain tendencies were forever left behind, but Surf's Up seems like the beginning of a certain approach, not the end, so it doesn't make sense to me as a stopping point.

What about It's Ok? ..I Do Love You?

For BBs stuff....for me it ends with The Levine produced lp...lots of good solo stuff though!

Never stopped listening to the BB - it's what I do: it's what I have to do - but pretty much stopped enjoying it anything more than sporadically round about 1977, and post-Love You. That was the last album released under the BB banner that I found more than 85% satisfying.

I start getting slightly disinterested after Love You, but it's after Keepin' The Summer Alive (& Dennis' death) where I officially draw the line.


Though I will admit I enjoy listening to Carl's parts on Still Cruisin' and (God help me) Kokomo. That boy could make the phone book sound good :angel:

Basically, I stop listening to their albums after I wear them out.  So for instance, I hardly ever listen to SMiLe, Pet Sounds, or Love You anymore.  I've heard every friekin' song a million times.  They're still great, it's just I don't need the record, I could play it all in my head! 

So for me, it's not about a time period, although some were certainly better than others, I enjoy all their music but stop listening to things I've heard a million times.  I'll listen to about any of their stuff, although I don't own a couple of the late albums, I need to pick them up though. 

Some people are missing the boat on the early stuff, though, one of my favorite things about the band is that the genius that they reached later, was there in glimses from the very beginning.  The Surfer Girl album in particular is very good. 

I believe earlier in this thread I stated Surf's Up was my personal stopping point.  I'd just like to go on the record and change that to Holland  ;D Man, I love Holland. Never really took a deep look into it though until recently. So after Holland, I'm done, with the occasional track from Love You.

I'm not sure if I understand the question, but I haven't been listening to the Beach Boys nearly as regularly as I was about 10-15 years ago.  Back then it was Beach Boys / Beatles all the way for me.  My tastes have expanded since then.  I listen to a lot more stuff now.  The Beach Boys are still among my all-time favorites though.

Next Sunday.

But just for the day!

(just kidding BTW) ;D

who's your top groups?

The Beach Boys and Beatles are still at the top, but I have been listening to a lot more since I was in high school (back in the 90's).  I'm also big on the following: Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, Paul Simon, Chicago (their early horn-rock stuff), Led Zeppelin, Eric Clapton, Bill Champlin, Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers, U2, Old & In The Way, CSN+Y, Pink Floyd, EWF, John Fogerty (CCR and solo), the Eagles, and many many others. 

you have great taste in music like many of us on here :)
but what's your top 5?
1. the beatles 2. the beach boys 3. the rolling stones 4. pink floyd 5. the kinks (this is just as of now it usually changes every week) but the other groups i listen to frequently are radiohead,the smiths,the zombies,the doors,led zeppelin.

Oh man, I don't know.  :-) I don't really have a top 5.  Last couple years I've found myself really into Paul Simon.  My tastes change quite a bit.