Love it, or Leaf it?

[Dancing Bear]

"Doesn't a lot of the antagonism towards Mike also spring from his relationship with Dennis?"

And with Blondie... and Jack Rieley... and from his dancing... and his first solo album...
Is it really down to Leaf and BW that Love is considered something of a joke?

Yes.

[Exapno Mapcase]

Rubbish. I think a case ought to be made for Mike being a key figure in the development of rock in the 60s; his lyrics and  vocals were great until the early 70s and he was an entertaining (if occasionally embarrassing and self-consciously unhip) front man.  Regardless of his stance on SMiLE (and I suspect it was no more negative than most of the rest of the band, simply because it was too far out), he contributed to some of their best albums (and songs) throughout the late 60s and early 70s. After that, however, it's another matter. The disintegration of the band was hardly his fault, but dragging out the formula fun stuff has whittled away the integrity the band ought to have.  Leaf maybe the reason a lot of "newer"  fans (especially those who adhere to the BW is practically God view) feel this way, but Mike's got only himself to blame for a lot of other merda.  Was "Don't foda with the formula" a Leafism?

[Dancing Bear]

Mr. Rushdie 

You asked a question, I answered. In my opinion those threads are going great if we don't kick the dead horse for pages and pages. let's agree to disagree about what happened from the late 70's on.

[Wilsonista]

Bullcrap, Rushdie's absolutely right. There's nothing in his post that is remotely contentious in any way.  Mike can blame a lot of sh*t on Leaf but  there's some things that he can't.

[Dancing Bear]

Bullcrap, Rushdie's absolutely right. There's nothing in his post that is remotely contentious in any way.  Mike can blame a lot of merda on Leaf but  there's some things that he can't.

I think you're missing the point. This isn't bullcrap, just OPINIONS. 

Now who's gonna say that the Who are the greatest live band of all time and anyone who thinks differently hasn't been paying attention? 

[John]

Now that IS a fact.

[Swamp Pirate]

Mike Love has one person to blame for the public perception of him and that's Mike Love.  If Mike had half the business acumen and capacity for self-promotion that Jimmy Buffett has, he wouldn't be in the spot he's in today.

I personally agree that Mike's vocals are indispensible to the Beach Boys sound.  Mike should go down as one of the best front men in rock history.  He won't (and that's unfortunate) but that hasn't nothing to do with what David Leaf wrote about him. 

[Amy B.]

For those of us who haven't read David Leaf's book, what exactly DID he write about Mike Love?

[the captain]

If Mike had half the business acumen and capacity for self-promotion that Jimmy Buffett has... 

AHAHAHA. I've never heard Jimmy Buffet used as a good example of anything, and I don't know exactly how to respond. So I won't. But...oh, it's funny. Next good examples: Kenny G, John Tesch, and some other boring, watered-down white-bread sh*t.

[Wilsonista]

Mike WISHES he was as successful a singing businessman as Jimmy Buffett. Knock Buffett as an artist  all you want, but he's built himself a nice  little empire of Margaritaville restaurants. And he has a fanatical and loyal audience that sell out every tour and will still buy his new records with little radio support.

[Wilsonista]

For those of us who haven't read David Leaf's book, what exactly DID he write about Mike Love?

As far as "giving the devil his due", Leaf  actually praises the other BB in his book for their talents and their contributions. Leaf was quick to point out that the band's early 70's touring should be credited for  the artistic reappraisal  that BB/BW received starting in the mid-70's. But Mike and certain members of the Wilson and Love clan are also given several brickbats for their behavior towards Brian.

[Dancing Bear]

No one here 'blames Mike for everything bad that happened to Brian' or 'blames Leaf for everything that went wrong with Mike's credibility'. The matter is, we are dealing with 45 years of facts and no one is able to write a post where everyone and everything is given its due, so we'll always swing between arguments from both camps.

At least it's better than in the late nineties when there was only one camp. 

[Smilin Ed H]

Wasn't Nick Kent, among others, writing less than hagiographic stuff about Mile before Leaf?  Leaf's book was, what, 1978?  Kent's article was a few years earlier.

[Cam Mott]

Let's hate Nick Kent. [frowny face in Nick's direction]

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Kent's a sleaze. Oh, and more proof that he doesn't know jackshit...remember his claim that nobody else was on Love you other than Carl and Brian (I think he left out Dennis...I got rid of the book a few years ago). Hmm...I wonder who sang Airplane, Roller Skating Child, and Honkin' Down the Highway...

[Exapno Mapcase]

Oh yea, let's hate Kent.  Any more critics to add to this list?  I nominate Dave Marsh. 

[Dancing Bear]

At least Marsh bashed the Beach Boys as a band, everyone included. 

[John]

Kent's a sleaze. Oh, and more proof that he doesn't know jackmerda...remember his claim that nobody else was on Love you other than Carl and Brian (I think he left out Dennis...I got rid of the book a few years ago). Hmm...I wonder who sang Airplane, Roller Skating Child, and Honkin' Down the Highway...

He also made a point of rubbishing Bruce's rightful claim that he's on Pet Sounds by saying, "Well, I can't hear him." - Er, end of God Only Knows, Nick?

[PongHit]

I just wanna say: I think the title of this thread is very clever.  PongHit appreciates puns.

[grillo]

I actually thought of the title before the topic, that's how twisted my mind is...

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I just wanna say: I think the title of this thread is very clever.  PongHit appreciates puns.

Hence, your username

[grillo]

I'd just like to say, Mike Love Has The Greatest Beard EVER, at least on tha DGNTW video on YOUTUBE!

[adamghost]

One thing that's stunned me  is how many people who live in L.A. have personally interacted with the Beach Boys.  I'm not talking about people I've met through Darian or Alan or music circles, but just random people I work with.  I bring this up because there were two people at the law firm I work at who mentioned that they knew Dennis Wilson personally at one time in their life and both spoke warmly about what a cool guy he was.  One of them also knew Mike Love and volunteered, without any provocation from me whatsoever, "he's an a**hole."  So, obviously, strong impressions were formed about each man.

Another person I know through non-Beach Boys associations but who was around the Beach Boys in the '70s commented to me, again without any provocation, that any time there was trouble in the band, it seemed to come from Mike Love.

I don't know Mike Love, never met him, but the impressions of people who do know him dovetail rather well with each other, as well as with the impressions I've gathered from watching interviews with him.  I think he's done his own legacy and that of his band tremendous damage over the years and he doesn't really "get" his own band, and he's solely focused on the commercial aspect of making music.  If it makes money, it's good.  If it doesn't, it's bad.  With the exception of his narrow philanthropic endeavors and interests (which, in general, don't translate well into song lyrics), that's where it begins and ends with him.

That said, I will offer up one defense of Mike Love:  it has to be difficult to be the one guy that shows up for work every day without fail, and gets the job done, and see all the love and affection being showered on the guys that are, from your perspective, the biggest fodaups and slackers in the band.  Since Mike has, from what I can tell, no real artistic sense whatsoever, that's all the equation is for him.  And it had to be very difficult to be in a band with the Wilsons (and probably with Mike Love, too).

Still, the Mike Love vibe is one I cannot get behind in any way, shape or form.  His cocky vibe was great on the early '60s records, but past that, neither the public or private persona are ones I can relate to at all.

[Dancing Bear]

I'm afraid there won't be a "BIG SUR: THE SONGS OF MIKE LOVE LIVE" any time soon. 

[RickD]

interesting post, Adam!

but I think we need the names and addresses of those people who told you Mike was an a**hole ( really??) and exactly what they said before we can believe stories so contrary to revisionist history!!    (sarcasm alert, in case you missed it)

might be worth a lawsuit, too ...