I think another logical possibility is that when he said Barnyard Suite, he was thinking about what we come to think of as Heroes and Villains-I'm in Great Shape - Barnyard --> and then, maybe something else. That the Barnyard Suite was the name given, at that temporary moment for what we think of more as a Heroes and Villains suite.

Yeah, I thought of that last night, but by 1977, why would Brian have to ambiguously describe H&V as a "Barnyard Suite" if it was already a well known song for a decade?

Unless you mean the early incarnation of H&V? 

I can actually believe it because we have a little scrap of it already, you know?

Of a "Barnyard" suite? You'll have to explain that to me. I don't deny that we have "a little scrap" of a "Barnyard" song/track/section/whatever-you-want-to-call-it, but that's a far cry from having a suite or anything indicative of a suite (like the recording session ID we have for "Fire" and "The Elements").

We know because Brian said-so, remember? 

Right around the same time he started talking about how the tapes had been thrown into the fire.

Haha duly noted. 

I can actually believe it because we have a little scrap of it already, you know?

Of a "Barnyard" suite? You'll have to explain that to me. I don't deny that we have "a little scrap" of a "Barnyard" song/track/section/whatever-you-want-to-call-it, but that's a far cry from having a suite or anything indicative of a suite (like the recording session ID we have for "Fire" and "The Elements").

We know because Brian said-so, remember? 

[WAIT]

WAIT

What if he was indeed talking about The Elements here as you suggest...  and that Brian meant that the section of Barnyard was meant to be the "earth" section of The Elements, to be combined with Mrs O'Leary's Cow? 

 

That actually makes a lot more sense to me than the idea that through the now 40+ year history of Smile, a second four-part suite was mentioned by Brian only once and never mentioned by anyone else at any time. I mean, think about it, as much time and effort as has been put into research and documentation of Smile, nothing else has ever turned up about a "Barnyard" suite?!! That's just unbelievable! Literally!

I can actually believe it because we have a little scrap of it already, you know? 

But as you and I can agree, there's not enough information to know either way.   

[WAIT]

"The Barnyard Suite, that was going to be four songs - in four short pieces - combined together, but we never finished that one. We got into something else."

WAIT

What if he was indeed talking about The Elements here as you suggest...  and that Brian meant that the section of Barnyard was meant to be the "earth" section of The Elements, to be combined with Mrs O'Leary's Cow? 

 

[Smile]

Exactly what he intended to do with it, though, we'll probably never know. Unfortunately, that's just the way it is with some details of Smile.

But that's what we are saying--if we don't know exactly what he was going to do with, then the possibility of it being a Barnyard suite shouldn't be ruled because we don't know either way. 

We know this about IIGS:
1) It became it's own separate entity from H&V, enough to be considered a separate track
2) It's a fragment, a middle piece, requiring more sections
3) the lyrics concern a farmer waking up in the morning

So there is no direct evidence that the listing of IIGS on the tracklist is meant to be this Barnyard Suite, but just look: the song is about a farmer waking up.  And then we have a different piece that was gutted from H&V, it's in the same key, and is about a barnyard.  Well, we have HALF of a theoretical Barnyard right there!  Pretty neat coincidence, don't you think?  Yeah, you can't prove anything, but it sure is funny how things work out sometimes... 

Then, there's the aforementioned quote by Brian saying there was a Barnyard Suite...  But the counter argument here, if I'm understanding correctly, is that:
1) since the quote dates from 1977, it's unreliable
2) we have no other sources, so it must not be true
No offense, but I don't find either point to completely rule the possibility of a Barnyard Suite out.  The fact that there's no additional information doesn't rule it out, it just makes it unfortunate for us.  What was the exact microphone used to mic the trumpet on OMP?  We don't know, so it must not have been mic'd at all.  Does that make sense?  No of course not.

Also, the thought of Brian confusing the nature's elements (earth, wind, water and fire) with animals on the barnyard?  Are you serious?  That's like confusing a vegetable with a wind chime. 

It just seems to be such a completely pessimistic analysis. 

None. Upon further inspection, the sheet for I Wanna Be Around was stuck with Friday Night (I'm in Great Shape) so there could have very well been a connection being made at this point.

Well there you go. 

 

[ever]

Can you post the quote please?

Sure. Herewith, the only reference ever made in the history of The Beach Boys to a "Barnyard" suite:

"The Barnyard Suite, that was going to be four songs - in four short pieces - combined together, but we never finished that one. We got into something else."

And since it's an isolated quote, we have no real idea of the context in which it was said or what question Brian might have been asked or even whether the printed quote is pieced together or edited from several comments.

Since the quote originates with Preiss and isn't lifted from another source, it apparently dates from late 1977, when Preiss was working on his book. Read or listen to any other interview Brian did around that time and it's obvious he wasn't in such great mental shape.

So how much weight should be given to what appears to be a random one-off comment? Doesn't it bother anybody else that there's no other support or documentation anywhere for a "Barnyard" suite?

Think about all that's been said and written over the years about Brian's "Elements" suite. Surely, if he'd been planning two such suites, somebody else would have noticed and said something at the time. But no one did. All the talk was about the "Elements" suite." In fact, if you left off the first three words of the Preiss quote ("The Barnyard Suite"), everybody would think you're talking about the "Elements"! And I think there's a good chance Brian actually was.

Thanks for the info!

I still disagree with you, but I appreciate the quote. 

Well, I'm not so sure about that. First of all, I'm really unconvinced that there was any plans for a Barnyard Suite in 66-67 -- there's absolutely no evidence from that time to suggest such a thing ever existed. I also don't think that The Elements was a dumping ground for miscellaneous instrumentals -- maybe it was never more than Fire, maybe there was going to actually be four pieces that captured the sound of an Element the way that Fire did (and the way that no other song from the sessions themselves have done, unless that "Under water" piece recorded after the Surf's Up session had something to do with it but I doubt it). Maybe all of these things but for whatever reason it didn't happen.

I see what you are saying, but the entire concept of elemental forces are that there are four of them, and how they interact and balance each other out.  It would be absurd to only have one of them...  Haven't you played like any Final Fantasy?   

Also, I don't think it's a stretch to listen to the instrumental pieces and determine if they fit into an element or not...  I Love to Say Da-Da just sounds like a babbling brook...  The way the chords progress and the starts and stops, remind me of a stream of water, flowing down a rocky bed....  And that didn't become a baby babbling until SMiLE was scrapped, right? 

Earth and Wind, yeah, no idea what that could be.  But to my ear, Fire and Water was created.  It could be very possible that Fire was the only one Brian got around to create...  Or at least the only one that was directly labeled... 

Well, not necessarily. There should be some kind of historical evidence before we're sure. Keep in mind that Fire was actually referred to as The Elements - a distinction that no other song from that era has.

See above.  And claiming "well there should be some evidence..." is clearly a cop-out, for a subject where not a lot of evidence exists.  Analysis is required, which is what I assumed this thread was platform for? 

Well, I think both the tape box and the Kaye comment would need more verification. Right now all the evidence we have seems to suggest that the I Wanna Be Around session was mislabelled. And Carol Kaye...well, I'll just leave it at that.

What is the exact evidence that the box was mislabeled? 

Yes, because I don't think they ever were and there is no evidence to suggest they were. All I'm saying that is that if Brian wanted to get the album out in a rush in, say, February 1967, he could have pushed Barnyard and Great Shape over to The Elements.

He certainly could have!   

When you think of it -- if Brian was really desperate to complete the album, Barnyard and I'm in Great Shape would have been perfect choices to shift to The Elements for Earth and Air. Hence any Elements Suite really could be also called a Barnyard suite.

That's true!  And I think we all agree that both suites were sort of a catch-all for the miscellaneous instrumentals anyways.  It's just a matter of which instrumentals "feel" like an element, or a farm.     Do we believe a tape box?  Or do we believe Carol Kaye?  Or can we take both into account and say IIGS includes Workshop, which IIGS itself is the earth part of The Elements?

And of course the flaw in my logic, as is in all of ours, is that The Elements is listed separately from Wind Chimes, IIGS and VT, thus implying that those three are not a part of The Elements at all...   

[Smile]

Bumping this cool thread with some of my thoughts, maybe Bee and others can chime in too...

One thing I thought of (that I used on my SMiLE mix) was to somehow explain I'm In Great Shape on the handwritten tracklist...  

We know that Brian wanted a farm/agriculture/barnyard suite with four songs, right?  Well, what could those pieces be?
1) obviously Barnyard
2) I'm In Great Shape definitely has to do with farming & agriculture  

    I don't remember reading that the so-called "barnyard suite" consisted of four songs. But if we are making the assumption that a Smile track entitled IIGS would indeed have been that famed barnyard suite then we also must assume that it was  an offshoot of H&V. If that's so, wouldn't Fade (TSS 2-28), All  Day, and Do A Lot also be contenders as sections? They all have ties to H&V.
    Full disclosure: I am in the camp that believes IWBA/FN was intended to represent the earth  element

Why should we assume it need to be an offshoot of H&V?  Unused pieces from one song would go to another (see Bicycle Rider, see False Barnshine).  The origins of the fragments are incidental...  The question is if it's about a barnyard or not.  

We know that Brian wanted a farm/agriculture/barnyard suite with four songs, right?

Do we? Do we really know that? What's the support for it?

This is probably going to come across as heresy, but I've never bought into the idea of a "Barnyard" suite. As far as I know, there's only ever been one mention of it by anyone involved with Smile - and that's a questionable reference in my opinion.

I've been a fan of the group since the 1960s, and over the years I tried to stay current on any and all Smile information that surfaced. To the best of my knowledge, there was no mention of a "Barnyard" suite (as opposed to a single song) in any of the articles and interviews that were concurrent with the recording of Smile. Nor was it mentioned by Carl or anybody else during the press hoopla when there was an attempt to assemble the album circa 1972.

In fact, the first mention of a "Barnyard" suite was in Byron Preiss's book in 1978, when he quoted a single short comment by Brian that mentioned it. My impression at the time - as it has been ever since - was that Brian was confused and mixing up "Barnyard" with the "Elements" suite. (I'd live to hear a recording or see a transcript of Preiss's interview with Brian to try to put the comment in context.) Since that time, I haven't seen any further documentation or support for such a suite - and, let me tell you, I've been looking for it!

Am I wrong? Have I missed something? Or could it be, as I suspect, that there never was a "Barnyard" suite, and we've just been running around like Pavlov's dogs trying to create something to match up with an erroneous off-hand comment by Brian?

Heresy? I'm sure some here will immediately jump to that conclusion, but I'd really love to see some serious discussion of my theory.

Well, you yourself just said you thought Brian was confused.  How can I argue the logic that you thought he was confused?  

Also, if you're making the claim that this never occurred, and that it all originated from a singular quote that was misinterpreted, an you post the quote please? 

I have to agree, sonic. After listening to your mix quite a few times it seems that those songs work very well together and I wouldn't be surprised if that's how they were supposed to go together. I also thought that the comment  "Rebuilding after the fire..." was pretty interesting, do you think that "The Elements: Fire" should precede the "farm/agriculture/barnyard" suite?

No, I honestly think that was a tongue-in-cheek quip, made in jest (by Carol Kaye, correct?).  I honestly don't think that it would have necessarily been the rebuilding after the 'Fire', especially when the fire could just as easily be burning down the building built in Workshop song (thus making it Workshop --> Fire)...  Or rather, would the 'water' have to put out the fire before they can rebuild (Fire -> Da Da -> Workshop)?

My point of view is that a chronological narrative is and was ignored when Brian was constructing the songs, for the sake of a musical whole.  I know someone recently constructed a H&V that supposedly creates an actual storyline of the pioneer...  But we all know the released version and even the Cantina version is not telling us a traditional story with a narrative.  It was designed to SOUND the best, you know what I mean?

Take my edit of IIGS for example...  Wouldn't it make more sense that the IIGS fragment be first because it's the farmer waking up in the morning and eating breakfast?  And THEN he feeds the animals in Barnyard?  And THEN the workers build a house?  And THEN they go to sleep on a Friday Night?  But if you constructed it that way, it would not sound as cohesive.  I know it's my construction, yes, but my point is that by design, IIGS is a "middle piece."  It needs some sort of introduction--that's why Darian composed one for it on BWPS, based around the Cantina bridge.  As as alternative, I used Barnyard, which could stand as either a "middle piece" or a "beginning piece" you know what I mean?  

My point is that I think you need to look at how the fragments will musically fit together, rather than the chronology of a distinct storyline.  That's why Workshop doesn't necessarily have to follow Fire, because it doesn't necessarily have to be rebuilding after the fire.  It could, but I'd say it better completes the IIGS suite, which in itself becomes "earth" in The Elements.  

Bumping this cool thread with some of my thoughts, maybe Bee and others can chime in too...

One thing I thought of (that I used on my SMiLE mix) was to somehow explain I'm In Great Shape on the handwritten tracklist... 

We know that Brian wanted a farm/agriculture/barnyard suite with four songs, right?  Well, what could those pieces be?
1) obviously Barnyard
2) I'm In Great Shape definitely has to do with farming & agriculture 

These two are in the same key, and can easily be hard-edited together...  I like Barnyard preceding I'm In Great Shape myself.  We know they both originated from H&V, but so did a lot of things, didn't they?  I see H&V as like the starting point, the GO on a Monopoly board, that created a plethora of musical ideas that at first were meant to be a part of H&V, but as the section was or was not cut, it began a life of it's own...  Barnyard and IIGS clearly were cut, but maybe they were supposed to go together all along, they were joined and became their own separate song called I'm In Great Shape, just like the Sleep A Lot was cut and became Vege-Tables... 

So anyways, that leaves two more...  But we know that Workshop & IWBA was credited as part of I'm In Great Shape on the tapebox.  Many people say that was an error, but can we really say that for certain?  Do we have a primary source, like the engineer who wrote that, saying "Oh yeah, my mistake, that was supposed to be The Elements, sorry!"  I don't think so, because it's just easier to think it can be grouped with The Elements...  "Rebuilding after the fire..."  Who said that?  Was it in jest?  Or should be taken literally?

So if we connect Workshop & IWBA to IIGS, then we suddenly have a complete four-piece suite, fitting the farm/barnyard/agriculture theme.  It comes out to be about 2:00 long (or 2:30 if you extend Workshop, as I did), and might sound something like this:
http://www.mediafire.com/?7fh87z8dryhks4y

Also, assuming this is correct, this construction of I'm In Great Shape might also be a better contender of the Earth element...  Surely a suite about the barnyard and the great shape of the agriculture is more appropriately connected to the earth, than a song about eating vegetables and brushing your teeth?   

I'm mostly through page one of this thread, this is great reading!

Wow, Holy_Bee, great essay, you're reiterating lots of things I believed anyways...  Did you used to post on the old smileshop boards like ten years ago?  Your name rings a bell... 

Say Holy_Bee, I was wondering, about a month ago I made a SMiLE mix that was trying to stay to a '67 mix as close as possible (yeah get in line, I know), but I feel it echoed a lot of what you are saying.  I was wondering if you'd give it a listen and give me some of your thoughts?  It can be found in this thread... 
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,12309.0.html

So, wait, what's the second disc of Loveless?  An alternate mix of the album?

What happened to that song that was suppose to be for hours on end?

Both the 6 hour song and the 24 hour song are both still out there, still streaming.  The 6 hour song in on youtube, but the guy who uploaded it told me he tried to upload the 24-hour song and his computer crashed. 

dl's are abound too... 

Also, not BB-related but FLips-related...  Anyone hear the new audio documentary on the making of Hit To Death In The Future Head?  They discuss the multitrack masters and dissect the sounds on there...  Pretty cool! 
http://satelliteheartradio.com/

Thanks for posting the lossless flacs. I really like your mix, and particularly like the new Child mix. For me, there is also a freshness about both H&V and GV here s both tracks somehow seem to have more energy and pace. It all seems to flow so well - and (a big plus) it's all in stereo!! A success.

It's great to be able to hear this stuff.  Thank you. again.

Hey, thanks a lot!  That means a lot to me. 

OK, here are the flacs!

part 1 http://www.mediafire.com/?i4rheu8avvzqbww
part 2 http://www.mediafire.com/?quunnscrkos83f4

Oh, yeah, sure!  I'll try to get em up later today or tomorrow!  Thanks again for listening! 

Thank guys! 

[The Beach Boys - SMiLE (Stereo BWPS 2004 Mix by soniclovenoize)]

Hi-ah folks!

I made this by request a while back, and I kinda rushed through it, and left some glaring errors, because I was more concentrating on my own mix.  But since I was able to finish that one, I thought I'd go back and revise my other mix that followed the BWPS 2004 sequencing as close as possible, without any fly-ins...  

So here it is, the revised version of a completely stereo SMiLE, using strictly the 2004 sequence that you all know and love, and only using The SMiLE Sessions box as sources to retain the best possible soundquality (although I used the 20/20 mixes of Our Prayer and Cabin Essence, the SoT17 of Water Chant and the GV 40th Anniversary remastered single for GV).  All tracks are either crossfaded or hard-edited into three movements, but all 17 tracks are split separately (something I didn't do last time).  

The Beach Boys - SMiLE (Stereo BWPS 2004 Mix by soniclovenoize)
http://www.mediafire.com/?6oix7im22xskdik


Some interesting changes and tid-bits:
* re-edited some things to more closely match the BWPS mix, something which I overlooked last time (Look, Vege-Tables and CiFotM notably).  
* used my newly made/revised stereo mixes of DYLW, Barnyard and Wonderful from last months' Authentic Mix
* revised version of Good Vibrations that removes that phase found just before the second verse
* I did something interesting which I don't know if it's been done yet (probably though, it's kinda obvious) but I used that little CiFotM bridge that wasn't on the TSS mono CD1, and used that to replicate Darian's orchestral linking track.  If you notice, a piece of it is the bass run from the end of the minor-key verse, and they crossfaded nicely.  It's different, but I like it!  Listen to it and let me know if you like it too!  

As I had said, there's no fly-ins from BWPS, that's not really my bag.  I know others do it and do a great job of that, so check those out of that's what you are looking for.  BUt if you want a stereo mix without fly-ins, this is it.  

Oh wow, no one has mentioned The Soft Bulletin by The Flaming Lips? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3W4VLmCaJw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfydXnPly3k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5rYUQSv2dY

OK, here you go guys! 

http://www.mediafire.com/?xcgh0n25lz6ggp3
http://www.mediafire.com/?puf1mrd4arq18p1

Oh Yay!  My band did "here Today".

Does a stereo mix exist for You're Welcome anywhere else besides the vinyl LP? I have it of course, but can't get a transfer I am pleased with.

There's already a really good rip of it circulating.