Love to Say Dada/Child Is the Father of the Man - linked?

[The Shift]

Okay.  So tonight I'm putting an issue of my mag to bed and listening while I work to a CD I don't have a copy of called From The Vaults (AudioFon AF 02).

Maybe I've been listening with cotton wool in my ears but I suddenly notice something new: on the instrumental track 17, I Love to Say Dada, Part 2 takes 1-3, particularly Take 3 (and Track 18, which is a vocal overdub of that Take 3), the take goes straight into Child Is the Father of the Man, as if they were the same piece of music. It's only a bar or two but there you have it.

Is this my imagination; is it the musicians jamming? Is it an idea Brian had one minute then dropped instantly (it doesn't happen on any of the other takes on the same CD).

Now I listen to Secret Smile seems the same's happening on that presentation of the same take. Don't have my other boots to hand (jn fact I don't, of course, have any boots, period) to see where else this happens, if anywhere.  Can't see that this has been discussed on the board before.

Thematically it fits too perfectly to be true -  "I Love to Say Dada", then into a Child evocation?

(And searching deeper, I see it has been discussed before, last year... http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,6896.0.html)  but I'd be interested to hear more thoughts on this)

'Scuse my thinking out loud, but finding it quite fascinating!

[desmondo]

John

Yes I just noticed that - I thought tat other piece had a touch of GV about it -- but it may be my ears

[buddhahat]

I've always been curious about this and am surprised it doesn't get more discussion. I always included this section in my Smile mixes.

Could be that the title refers to a baby's first words and that this bit at the end is a coda Brian was planning that would tie it in with Child and Surf's Up i.e. it has nothing to do with Water.

I suspect, however, at the time Brian was recording this, potentially after he'd scrapped Smile, it was another example of Brian cannibalizing Smile tracks to create new songs, very similar to the way he would insert the vegatables fade into Wonderful. I think it had little to do with the themes running through Smile and more to do with what sounded right to him at that point of the song. That Child riff was probably just a thing he was into at the time.

[ghost]

Thinking of Dada's, I wonder if Murry KNEW his creations would become immortal rock legends? I mean, just imagine if Brian was now Dr Brian Wilson, psychologist. Dennis was an actor on Full House. Carl was drafted and killed in Vietnam.

[rab2591]

Do you suppose he even realized his sons were rock legends?

[rab2591]

@Wee Helper - thanks for this info! News to me - fascinating to hear the link between 'dada' and 'Child' there.

[ghost]

Do you suppose he even realized his sons were rock legends?

Oh hell yeah, why do you think he co-wrote Breakaway? Duh, to try and get a piece of the action. Murry Wilson, rock star. Two Step Side Step, Head Bang.

[rab2591]

Do you suppose he even realized his sons were rock legends?

Oh hell yeah, why do you think he co-wrote Breakaway? Duh, to try and get a piece of the action. Murry Wilson, rock star. Two Step Side Step, Head Bang.

He knew they were hit-makers of the time - but he sold the rights to their catalogue in 1969, didn't he? - if he knew they were going to be legends I don't think he would have sold the catalogue for as cheap as he did (or sold it at all).

[The Shift]

Boy, I forgot I posted that. Didn't someone make the same link in a thread more recently?

Reminds me also of this thread started by the King Of Anglia, regarding Heroes riff:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,10566.0.html

Wonder how much more music was played around with then discarded?

[The Demon]

I've noticed connections between "Child" and "Dada," too (can't ignore the childlike word "dada," foremost).  There's that one section of "Child," for example, with the alternate chorus vocal (kind of slow and watery).  The music is just a simple piano part that starts with two chords that sound like the final "waaa-teer" in the "Water Chant" (this is on Secret Smile CD 1, subtitled "Piano Section Vocal Overdub)  I also see what you mean with that weird "Dada" section--it has touches of both "Child" and the parts of "Song for Children" influenced by "Good Vibrations" (reminds me a bit of one "GV" section on the Pet Sounds box...I don't know if the section has a title, but it sounds kind of triumphant and declarative).

Thematically, I think he just tied children in with water because water is the source of life, hence the connection in "Surf's Up," as well.  Even that very slight "GV" connection fits, since the song is about being attracted to the opposite sex.

[OneEar/OneEye]

Do you suppose he even realized his sons were rock legends?

If he had would he have sold the publishing?

[JohnMill]

Do you suppose he even realized his sons were rock legends?

If he had would he have sold the publishing?

Bird in the hand is worth two in the bush?  He didn't have the benefit of hindsight or foresight for that matter.

[rab2591]

Do you suppose he even realized his sons were rock legends?

If he had would he have sold the publishing?

That was my point.

[OneEar/OneEye]

Do you suppose he even realized his sons were rock legends?

If he had would he have sold the publishing?

Bird in the hand is worth two in the bush?  He didn't have the benefit of hindsight or foresight for that matter.

Maybe that's cos he only had one eye?  Interesting how he had one eye and Brian had one ear....
But, whether he felt the publishing was worth millions or nothing - it was Brians, and the family's legacy, which is worth a helluva lot more than mere $$. 

[OneEar/OneEye]

Do you suppose he even realized his sons were rock legends?

If he had would he have sold the publishing?

That was my point.

I know.  I meant that as a concurrence.

[rab2591]

Do you suppose he even realized his sons were rock legends?

If he had would he have sold the publishing?

That was my point.

I know.  I meant that as a concurrence.

Ahhh, whoops, I see

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

I'm actually lucky enough to have found FTV (2 Disks) at "Bleaker Street Records" in Grenich Village, NYC

My favorite part ISN'T actually the tons of LTSDD sessions, but the instrumental BWPS Surf's Up... it's fantastic!

[Bicyclerider]

My favorite part is the stereo Girl Don't Tell Me

[ghost]

Murry sold the rights during a bad coke phase he was going through. He just needed to score.

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

My favorite part is the stereo Girl Don't Tell Me

I love that song, and that version (while it is pretty quiet...) is really full!

[Bill Tobelman]

The spiritual experience results in completely new thinking: the newborn child's point of view (thus "Da Da") & Wordsworth's poem's one crazy line.

They're both inspired (as far as Brian goes) by the same event which likely lasted "all day" in one way or another.