Surfer Girl Song Question

[Beekeeper]

Okay everyone, I searched and I didnt see anything relevant.

In the book, Heroes & Villains by Steven Gaines, he writes that Surfer Girl was the first time that Brian didn't use any of the other Beach Boys on a BB song.

It says Brian had friends and other musicians sing or play on it but it still sounded like the Beach Boys.

Any truth to this??

Beekeeper

[Jason]

Could have fooled me. Everyone knows of Brian having Maureen Love play harp on Catch a Wave and Hal Blaine playing drums on Little Deuce Coupe and Our Car Club, but you got me on that one...

[Andrew G. Doe]

Okay everyone, I searched and I didnt see anything relevant.

In the book, Heroes & Villains by Steven Gaines, he writes that Surfer Girl was the first time that Brian didn't use any of the other Beach Boys on a BB song.

It says Brian had friends and other musicians sing or play on it but it still sounded like the Beach Boys.

Any truth to this??

Beekeeper

Back in the old days of fanzines, Brad Elliott tracked down two members of The Survivors in 1982 - Rich Alarian & Dave Nowlen. Alarian made a whole bunch of claims that, even back then, looked questionable: for one thing he claimed he sang lead on "Pamela Jean", a falsehood which was comprehensively blown out of the water when SOT Volume 4 came out, of course. He also claimed to have written some of the lyrics credited to Roger Christian. However, his main claim was that Brian used him, and the rest of The Survivors, to record tracks for the Surfer Girl album while the rest of the band were on tour. Now, granted Brian did quit the 1963 Midwest July/August tour to fly back to LA to hold a Honeys session and two Survivors sessions, and it's a fact that the documentation for the Surfer Girl sessions is largely missing, but prior to the tour starting on July 18th, the band only played six dates in California and Arizona, ample time to record some tracks... and in any case, a weeks worth of dates excepted, Brian was on tour with the band. Didn't want to be, but he was.

So, in answer to your 'any truth to this ?' question, I'd say on balance, no, none at all. In reference specifically to "Surfer Girl" the song, the AFM sheet for that survives - June 12th - and the only names on it are that well-known firm of solicitors, Wilson, Wilson, Wilson, Love & Marks.

[Beekeeper]

Okay everyone, I searched and I didnt see anything relevant.

In the book, Heroes & Villains by Steven Gaines, he writes that Surfer Girl was the first time that Brian didn't use any of the other Beach Boys on a BB song.

It says Brian had friends and other musicians sing or play on it but it still sounded like the Beach Boys.

Any truth to this??

Beekeeper

Back in the old days of fanzines, Brad Elliott tracked down two members of The Survivors in 1982 - Rich Alarian & Dave Nowlen. Alarian made a whole bunch of claims that, even back then, looked questionable: for one thing he claimed he sang lead on "Pamela Jean", a falsehood which was comprehensively blown out of the water when SOT Volume 4 came out, of course. He also claimed to have written some of the lyrics credited to Roger Christian. However, his main claim was that Brian used him, and the rest of The Survivors, to record tracks for the Surfer Girl album while the rest of the band were on tour. Now, granted Brian did quit the 1963 Midwest July/August tour to fly back to LA to hold a Honeys session and two Survivors sessions, and it's a fact that the documentation for the Surfer Girl sessions is largely missing, but prior to the tour starting on July 18th, the band only played six dates in California and Arizona, ample time to record some tracks... and in any case, a weeks worth of dates excepted, Brian was on tour with the band. Didn't want to be, but he was.

So, in answer to your 'any truth to this ?' question, I'd say on balance, no, none at all.

Thanks Andrew. I had always wondered about this. I started reading the book again(Heroes & Villains) and upon reading about Surfer Girl, I had to do some asking.

Thanks,
BK

[Andrew G. Doe]

Okay everyone, I searched and I didnt see anything relevant.

In the book, Heroes & Villains by Steven Gaines, he writes that Surfer Girl was the first time that Brian didn't use any of the other Beach Boys on a BB song.

It says Brian had friends and other musicians sing or play on it but it still sounded like the Beach Boys.

Any truth to this??

Beekeeper

Back in the old days of fanzines, Brad Elliott tracked down two members of The Survivors in 1982 - Rich Alarian & Dave Nowlen. Alarian made a whole bunch of claims that, even back then, looked questionable: for one thing he claimed he sang lead on "Pamela Jean", a falsehood which was comprehensively blown out of the water when SOT Volume 4 came out, of course. He also claimed to have written some of the lyrics credited to Roger Christian. However, his main claim was that Brian used him, and the rest of The Survivors, to record tracks for the Surfer Girl album while the rest of the band were on tour. Now, granted Brian did quit the 1963 Midwest July/August tour to fly back to LA to hold a Honeys session and two Survivors sessions, and it's a fact that the documentation for the Surfer Girl sessions is largely missing, but prior to the tour starting on July 18th, the band only played six dates in California and Arizona, ample time to record some tracks... and in any case, a weeks worth of dates excepted, Brian was on tour with the band. Didn't want to be, but he was.

So, in answer to your 'any truth to this ?' question, I'd say on balance, no, none at all.

Thanks Andrew. I had always wondered about this. I started reading the book again(Heroes & Villains) and upon reading about Surfer Girl, I had to do some asking.

Thanks,
BK

Pleasure.

[c-man]

Could have fooled me. Everyone knows of Brian having Maureen Love play harp on Catch a Wave and Hal Blaine playing drums on Little Deuce Coupe and Our Car Club, but you got me on that one...

I even have some doubts about "Little Deuce Coupe", chiefly because Dennis' name is on the AFM contract and not Hal's.    As for "Surfer Girl"...God, just listen to those voices:  as obvious an example of the Wilson brothers' & Love's discreet tonalities as ever was laid to wax ("In My Room" being another good example from the same period).

[drbeachboy]

Every time I listen to In My Room, I swear that I hear Bruce in the mix. Maybe, there is someone extra singing background vocals?

[Chris Brown]

Every time I listen to In My Room, I swear that I hear Bruce in the mix. Maybe, there is someone extra singing background vocals?

My ears have always heard the three Wilson brothers and Mike, nobody else.

[Jon Stebbins]

Definitely all Beach Boys (Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike vocals and Brian, Dennis, Carl and David on the track) on the song Surfer Girl. I agree with C-man regarding the song Little Deuce Coupe (even though my DW book written in '99 says its Hal on that I was just going by what I thought was good research by other writers) Subsequently I've learned that the track LDC features Dennis on drums according to David who was on the session, and the AFM sheet, and if you listen it sounds way more like Dennis' drumming than Hal. The journalistic trail of DW being replaced by Hal on that track happened because it was pointed out by Brian or someone else that the LDC LP was the first to feature Hal replacing Dennis on a track (Its now well established by David and others that the track was Our Car Club). Therefore a journalist writes Hal replaced Dennis on LDC...not being specific as to whether referring to song or LP...and from there it gets written that Dennis was replaced on LDC...people immediately think its the song being referred to and its written that way for decades. But I think at this point in 2010 its beyond clear that Surfer Girl(the song) is all Beach Boys (so obvious because of those distinct voices). Also, pretty good bet LDC the song is all Beach Boys too, including Dennis on drums. And BTW...nothing close to Bruce on In My Room...that session is Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike (and Al) on vocals...and Brian, Dennis, Carl, David, Al on the track.

[Andrew G. Doe]

The journalistic trail of DW being replaced by Hal on that track happened because it was pointed out by Brian or someone else that the LDC LP was the first to feature Hal replacing Dennis on a track (Its now well established by David and others that the track was Our Car Club). Therefore a journalist writes Hal replaced Dennis on LDC...not being specific as to whether referring to song or LP...and from there it gets written that Dennis was replaced on LDC...people immediately think its the song being referred to and its written that way for decades.

You can follow that trail back to 1978 and the first edition of David Leaf's book, and he's very specific about it:

As the music got more sophisticated, Brian relied more and more on studio musicians to get the sound he wanted. [Roger] Christian remembers Brian's saying '"I don't know how to tell Dennis that the drumming on "Little Deuce Coupe" isn't his." Brian didn't want to hurt his brother's feelings.'

[drbeachboy]

And BTW...nothing close to Bruce on In My Room...that session is Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike (and Al) on vocals...and Brian, Dennis, Carl, David, Al on the track.

I realize that in no way was Bruce on that recording, just that someone close to the timbre of his voice is up front in the mix. Could it be that I am hearing a very young Dennis more out front in the vocal blend than usual?

[Jon Stebbins]

And BTW...nothing close to Bruce on In My Room...that session is Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike (and Al) on vocals...and Brian, Dennis, Carl, David, Al on the track.

I realize that in no way was Bruce on that recording, just that someone close to the timbre of his voice is up front in the mix. Could it be that I am hearing a very young Dennis more out front in the vocal blend than usual?

Dennis is the third voice to come in at the beginning...There's a world where(Brian)...I can go to(Carl)...tell my secrets to(Dennis)...and those three voices pretty much dominate the song with Mike adding the bass part.

[drbeachboy]

It is indeed Dennis that I am hearing. Thanks!

[c-man]

And BTW...nothing close to Bruce on In My Room...that session is Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike (and Al) on vocals...and Brian, Dennis, Carl, David, Al on the track.

I realize that in no way was Bruce on that recording, just that someone close to the timbre of his voice is up front in the mix. Could it be that I am hearing a very young Dennis more out front in the vocal blend than usual?

Dennis is the third voice to come in at the beginning...There's a world where(Brian)...I can go to(Carl)...tell my secrets to(Dennis)...and those three voices pretty much dominate the song with Mike adding the bass part.

Getting a bit off topic here, but it's interesting to note that when they did "In My Room" live in the mid '70s, Al took the lead, and Carl and Dennis switched parts (Dennis sang the lower of the harmonies, then Carl came in on the top harmony).  When Brian or Bruce would sing the lead in the late '70s, Al would team up with Dennis on that lower of the two harmony parts, with Carl still on top.

[tpesky]

Thanks c-man, I'm always fascinated by the way they switched parts like that in different live arrangements, so it is great to get these tidbits.

[Beekeeper]

So, how can someone write a book and not get a simple fact straight with regards to a famous/well known BB song??

If I had been the writer of this book, that kind of a story would have made me make sure of the facts before publishing it.

How many witnesses/corroborators does one need to say this is fact??

....if this info is not correct then what other info in that book, Heroes & Villains isnt correct??

On a side note, I used to go to Hume Lake Christian Camp for the week in the late 80's. They had a live band to help with worship. I had also played the drums since 1982, so anyone I met who played, I bugged.

They had a speaker at this camp once who claimed to have been a session drummer on the earlier BB records. So, I asked him which songs he played drums on and why.
He said that Dennis wasnt good enough to play on some of the records and that he had played on California Girls, Surfin USA etc....

His name was if I can remember, Steve something or other. I didnt get into the BB's heavily until the day after I graduated from HS in 1989 so I just went along with what this guy was saying.
They did let him play a drum solo on the hume lake bands drumkit. This guy played a Gene Krupa kinda solo but not good enough to have impressed me as a session drummer.

Now I know this guy must have been a fake cause we all know that Hal Blaine was the only other drummer on the earlier BB songs. Right?? (besides Brian on Surfin)

[grillo]

So, how can someone write a book and not get a simple fact straight with regards to a famous/well known BB song??

If I had been the writer of this book, that kind of a story would have made me make sure of the facts before publishing it.

How many witnesses/corroborators does one need to say this is fact??

....if this info is not correct then what other info in that book, Heroes & Villains isnt correct??

On a side note, I used to go to Hume Lake Christian Camp for the week in the late 80's. They had a live band to help with worship. I had also played the drums since 1982, so anyone I met who played, I bugged.

They had a speaker at this camp once who claimed to have been a session drummer on the earlier BB records. So, I asked him which songs he played drums on and why.
He said that Dennis wasnt good enough to play on some of the records and that he had played on California Girls, Surfin USA etc....

His name was if I can remember, Steve something or other. I didnt get into the BB's heavily until the day after I graduated from HS in 1989 so I just went along with what this guy was saying.
They did let him play a drum solo on the hume lake bands drumkit. This guy played a Gene Krupa kinda solo but not good enough to have impressed me as a session drummer.

Now I know this guy must have been a fake cause we all know that Hal Blaine was the only other drummer on the earlier BB songs. Right?? (besides Brian on Surfin)

Actually Dennis may not have played on Surfin' USA because he had a broken ankle (or something). I guess he played on the original version, but that was somehow lost, so by the time they went in to rerecord it Dennis had screwed up his foot. Think i read about this on this very board.
Also think someone thought they looped the drum fill at the beginning of each chorus, though I still think its just a mixing/limiter thing going on there...

[c-man]

Frank Devito says he played drums on "Surfin' U.S.A.", and I believe Dave has corroborated that (right Jon?).  DeVito also played on a "Love To Say Da-Da" session or two.  But he and Hal Blaine aren't the same person, and he (they) don't go by Steve, last I heard.  Amazing the BS some people think they can get away with!

[Beekeeper]

Frank Devito owns Danmar Drum products. I forgot about him playing on Surfin USA.

[Chris Brown]

And BTW...nothing close to Bruce on In My Room...that session is Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike (and Al) on vocals...and Brian, Dennis, Carl, David, Al on the track.

I realize that in no way was Bruce on that recording, just that someone close to the timbre of his voice is up front in the mix. Could it be that I am hearing a very young Dennis more out front in the vocal blend than usual?

Dennis is the third voice to come in at the beginning...There's a world where(Brian)...I can go to(Carl)...tell my secrets to(Dennis)...and those three voices pretty much dominate the song with Mike adding the bass part.

That's how I've always heard it, but in that case, where does Al come in?  I've never heard him on there, and the parts stay pretty consistent throughout the song.  Does he come in for the fade?

[Andrew G. Doe]

So, how can someone write a book and not get a simple fact straight with regards to a famous/well known BB song??

If I had been the writer of this book, that kind of a story would have made me make sure of the facts before publishing it.

How many witnesses/corroborators does one need to say this is fact??

....if this info is not correct then what other info in that book, Heroes & Villains isnt correct??

It's a very schitzoid book as regards accuracy: on one hand it refers to Today ! as an album of car songs ( ), yet there's a lot of extremely accurate information regarding the band's contracts and financial affairs, which given Gaines' source is understandable.

I strongly suggest you don't read Keith Badman's Definitive Diary... if that kind of things annoys you...