TLOS Sound Quality

[filledeplage]

You two......get a room!

We did. It was so-so. A second time will be necessary.

Your boy, Columbo (your icon) would be so disappointed that you "took the bait!"

You two, are hilarious!   

  thank you, ma'am. There's just one more thing that bothers me...

And the brilliant "closing lines" of his investigatory script...in his rumpled trench-coat...(and we so "off'-topic!")

I would never risk losing this enlightening musical discourse...

...what bothers me, ma'am: how is it possible that with all the modern studio wizardry, all that equipment, and all those well-trained engineers, TLOS in its European incarnation sounds so absolutely terrible and off-putting?

Initially, as I said earlier, I blamed myself, clueless at the car stereo controls...and I found that for me,  it is a better listen via mp3, and extraordinary, "live" - I don't have the DVD...and probably won't buy it.  I saw the real thing, live...Magnificent! No complaints, here.  They could have videotaped what I saw in a funky old théâtre, and sold it, without to the 'to-do" of the pressured "by invitation only" production.  People do still like the spontaneous.  I found it well-done and emotionally riveting in this context. 

Like Gershwin, it is "on the menu" and for me, not a daily listen.

I wonder if Brian had the studio freedom that he commanded for Pet Sounds, but, this is not my area of expertise, I am just a "hack."

And, as such, would not venture my opinion.   I defer to the sound "experts."  It is completely out of my league, except for this;  It may have been "over influenced" by younger ears, whose tastes in tone, timbre, etc., are coming from hearing rap, hip-hop, etc., and not "contemporaneous" to stronger, earlier Beach Boys influences, whose genesis was in surf music, or even the Pet Sounds, Smiley Smile, Surf's Up creativity era, preferring a more mellow "bass speaker" sound, which 60's tastes gravitated toward.

It may also be "anachronistic" trying to "fit" his earlier (mid 60's) compositional style into a  more technologically advanced computer generation mode. 

Their instincts are coming from a different place whose very gifted skill sets, come from the classroom and not the "kitchen cabinet"
(sorry for the political term) and that is not necessarily a bad thing, but not the "roots" from whence one comes.  I can only liken it to going out to lunch with a girlfriend who, like me, strapped on "steel roller skates" from the age of seven and who instinctively "knows that place" which you just cannot teach in a classroom and who could probably not recognize what a "skate key" was.  Their roller blades/skates were integrated into a boot.

And I still cannot "connect" in any real sense to the early 60's car stuff, because I was about 8 years old at the time. I can sing along and enjoy it, but cannot really "connect" to it because I did not "live it," experiencing that "dynamic."   
 
It might be upsetting the old apple cart not to be working with "contemporaries" and not to be working with his former band (not to open up a can of worms) if the "creative work" is still excellent, and I think it still is, because of the perspective of the "production" of that work is not meshed into the "Brian sound" (which seems to be the complaint, here) "comfort zone" that our ears have come to expect with his fine work.  I don't know. 

It is an "observation," and not a "criticism."             

[filledeplage]

You two......get a room!

We did. It was so-so. A second time will be necessary.

Your boy, Columbo (your icon) would be so disappointed that you "took the bait!"

You two, are hilarious!   

  thank you, ma'am. There's just one more thing that bothers me...

And the brilliant "closing lines" of his investigatory script...in his rumpled trench-coat...(and we so "off'-topic!")

I would never risk losing this enlightening musical discourse...

...what bothers me, ma'am: how is it possible that with all the modern studio wizardry, all that equipment, and all those well-trained engineers, TLOS in its European incarnation sounds so absolutely terrible and off-putting?

Initially, as I said earlier, I blamed myself, clueless at the car stereo controls...and I found that for me,  it is a better listen via mp3, and extraordinary, "live" - I don't have the DVD...and probably won't buy it.  I saw the real thing, live...Magnificent! No complaints, here.  They could have videotaped what I saw in a funky old théâtre, and sold it, without to the 'to-do" of the pressured "by invitation only" production.  People do still like the spontaneous.  I found it well-done and emotionally riveting in this context.  

Like Gershwin, it is "on the menu" and for me, not a daily listen.

I wonder if Brian had the studio freedom that he commanded for Pet Sounds, but, this is not my area of expertise, I am just a "hack."

And, as such, would not venture my opinion.   I defer to the sound "experts."  It is completely out of my league, except for this;  It may have been "over influenced" by younger ears, whose tastes in tone, timbre, etc., are coming from hearing rap, hip-hop, etc., and not "contemporaneous" to stronger, earlier Beach Boys influences, whose genesis was in surf music, or even the Pet Sounds, Smiley Smile, Surf's Up creativity era, preferring a more mellow "bass speaker" sound, which 60's tastes gravitated toward.

It may also be "anachronistic" trying to "fit" his earlier (mid 60's) compositional style into a  more technologically advanced computer generation mode.  

Their instincts are coming from a different place whose very gifted skill sets, come from the classroom and not the "kitchen cabinet"
(sorry for the political term) and that is not necessarily a bad thing, but not the "roots" from whence one comes.  I can only liken it to going out to lunch with a girlfriend who, like me, strapped on "steel roller skates" from the age of seven and who instinctively "knows that place" which you just cannot teach in a classroom and who could probably not recognize what a "skate key" was.  Their roller blades/skates were integrated into a boot.

And I still cannot "connect" in any real sense to the early 60's car stuff, because I was about 8 years old at the time. I can sing along and enjoy it, but cannot really "connect" to it because I did not "live it," experiencing that "dynamic."    
 
It might be upsetting the old apple cart not to be working with "contemporaries" and not to be working with his former band (not to open up a can of worms) if the "creative work" is still excellent, and I think it still is, because of the perspective of the "production" of that work is not meshed into the "Brian sound" (which seems to be the complaint, here) "comfort zone" that our ears have come to expect with his fine work.  I don't know.  

It is an "observation," and not a "criticism."              

[Andrew G. Doe]

Really bad echo in here... 

[The Heartical Don]

Really bad echo in here... 

  yeah... Wall Of Sound or something. Self-plagiarism. Like John Fogerty. Allegedly.

[absinthe_boy]

OK not TLOS specifically but recording technology and sound quality relevant.

I've finally got hold of Telarc disc 5038, much mentioned in Greg Millner's book. Frederick Fennell's recording of the Cleveland Symphonic Winds made in 1978 using the Soundstream digital recording system and released onto audiophile vinyl. I have obtained a sealed, unopened copy  and just gave it a spin for the first time.

I have to say.....having many LPs by much vaunted classical labels such as Deutsche Grammophon, Heliodor, Decca....well....this is something different. For the first time I have come across a signal so 'loud' that my system cannot accurately reproduce it at high levels (this is probably a speaker issue). But at "normal" levels.....it does exactly mimic being in a concert hall - an experience I have had several times.  It even comes with an insert warning the owner to be careful playing it the first time, due to the wide dynamic range.

Indeed my wife has banned me from playing this record when she is in the house.  My comment upon playing track 3 was "put that in your CD player and smoke it. I have my new demo disc"

I want to share part of the liner notes...in response to the anticipated question about parts seeming very quiet.

"The buyer should know that this disc was created especially for the audiophile. In doing so, we have recorded an overall dynamic range that I would estimate to be at least 20db more than you would find on a standard commercial disc of the same material. To a great extent, it's what we didn't do that is responsible for the lower level. We didn't compress it, equalize it, limit it or use any low frequency crossover. The overall level cut on this record was set up according to where the loudest sections were. In this particluar case, the looudest signal is created by the bass durm (specifically in the third movement of the Holst First Suite). Everything else falls into place and we let the conductor control the dynamics. If, for instance, we had wanted to raise the overall level of the disc, we would have had to reduce the natural impact of the bass drum as we had captured it.....had we cut it, say 2db hotter, which is barely noticable to the ear, it would have triggered the circuit breakers in the cutting room - and this remember is at half speed which is only 25% of realtime energy. "

THAT is how records should be cut. My god, the impact of the bass drum is actually quite shocking. It is like hearing a bass drum in real life. No exaggeration, that is what it sounds like listening to this record.

It is available on CD these days, and I imagine it is mastered correctly because that is the raison d'etre of Telarc. GO and buy it, rent it, or download a FLAC if you can find one.

[Myk Luhv]

I guess you own the book? Do you remember the part where he discusses Emory Cook -- whose catalogue is now owned and managed by Smithsonian Folkways -- and how one of his last albums is something people are unsure about regarding whether he was entirely serious about its audiophilia or whether he was sending up the obsession? If you could post that excerpt, I'd appreciate it since I found it pretty funny when I read it!

[absinthe_boy]

I'll dig out the book again tomorrow. I put it back in its home....which isn't in my main bookshelf.

[Myk Luhv]

Cool, thanks!

[absinthe_boy]

Sorry I didn't get around to it yet.....I did this instead

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmBTA044jKA