Brian & SMiLE

[buddhahat]

Now that is just hysterical: reminds me of a five-year-old stamping their foot and screaming "because I say so, because it is !!!".

I'm not sure if you're responding to my post or an earlier one. If not, then please ignore this, but I really believe that Sgt Pepper's brilliance is not a fixed thing, and that somebody arguing that Smiley is better, is not necessarily because they lack historical perspective to properly form a judgement. Cultural values change generation by generation. This is partly why, in those ubiquitous 'best album ever' polls, the albums at the top change decade by decade. I'd be extremely surprised if any respected music mag would put Sgt pepper at the top any more. This is not because they have limited perspective and can't appreciate its brilliance, but because the album's over-exposure has become a genuine negative attribute - it has become part of the cultural perception of the album. The album has not changed, but our relationship with it has. Revolver generally trumps it now in the polls I've seen, and I'm sure in the next decade we'll probably see The White Album trounce that and so on. When Pepper came out it was all about polish, and craft. It was the supreme example of a pop album as a piece of craftsmanship, and ironically once it had achieved that status, it automatically made the pursuit of technical excellence passe, opening the door to more laid back, homespun records: John Wesley Harding, The White Album etc.

The love of a lazy, unhinged album such as Smiley relates to a culture that embraces the slacker, outsider art, low-fi. People that value these things are more likely to prefer Smiley over Pepper. This doesn't mean they don't have the intelligence to appreciate the briliance of Sgt pepper, but that due to the values of their own cultural environment, Smiley Smile is a more beautiful record.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Responding to the youtube video explaining why Pepper is just sooooooooooooo much better than Pet Sounds. No slight intended to your good self.

[buddhahat]

Responding to the youtube video explaining why Pepper is just sooooooooooooo much better than Pet Sounds. No slight intended to your good self.

Sorry, my bad, but gave me an opportunity to expound (as if I needed one), nonetheless!

[Curtis Leon]

And why would Brian wipe a piece of his biggest project?

I recall having read that even if Brian had wanted to, he could not have erased his own recorded material. IIRC, the tapes were property of Capitol (as they were paying for the sessions) and any engineer that would let an artist destroy or wipe master tapes would probably get in trouble with the union.

I believe Brian wiped the master for The Little Girl I Once Knew... And I can hear some trace elements of a previous track in I'm Waiting For The Day. So it's not completely unreasonable.

Where in I'm Waiting for the day can you hear elements of a track other then the main one?

Very early on in the mono mix - In the opening drum intro, there's SOMETHING going on, something very faint. Doubtful that it would be part of the actual track itself, it's too faint to hear without headphones.

[?]

Check out this thread for info on the I'm Waiting For The Day bleed through: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=112858

Seriously though, once you've heard it, you can't not hear it so proceed with caution.  Now it bugs me every time I play the song and I probably would have never caught on to it had it not been pointed out to me.

[Menace Wilson]

Check out this thread for info on the I'm Waiting For The Day bleed through: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=112858

Seriously though, once you've heard it, you can't not hear it so proceed with caution.  Now it bugs me every time I play the song and I probably would have never caught on to it had it not been pointed out to me.

Wow.

[SmileySam]

For a long time I used to ignore Smiley Smile and would listen to the SMiLE session material, because at that point I was comparing the two, but then recently I had another thought......Smiley is such a unique album and it indeed stands out, because I've never heard any other group who have handled psychedelia the way they had at that time, very stripped down and such. Whenever I hear a psychedelic album, the production is (most of the time) heavy and clean sounding, whereas with Smiley, they take a different route going the opposite direction, creating very light, thin and raw sound (I don't know if 'raw' is the best word), and that, I think, is why the album was hated at the time. Because I don't think many bands had approached psychedelia in that particular direction before, and the record-buying public had probably expected just the same as what they've already heard previously with other acts. The one thing that Smiley and Pet Sounds have in common is the kind of reception from the public the 2 records had received in the beginning. (Though, with Smiley, many of the original opinions still stand). Personally, even though Carl called it a bunt, which I can agree with production-wise, I think it was a foreward move from many other bands, just as SMiLE would have been a foreward move.

Whenever I listen to Smiley Smile nowadays, I don't think about SMiLE, I think of Smiley as a stand alone record that is special because its a unique album in their discography and it was a unique album for those times. Now I don't call it the best 1967 album. Nooo way, but its one of the more unique releases of that year.

[Roger Ryan]

Whenever I listen to Smiley Smile nowadays, I don't think about SMiLE, I think of Smiley as a stand alone record that is special because its a unique album in their discography and it was a unique album for those times. Now I don't call it the best 1967 album. Nooo way, but its one of the more unique releases of that year.

I agree with this, but I'd feel a lot better about SMILEY SMILE if it didn't include "Heroes & Villains" and "Good Vibrations"; whatever charm the stripped-down weirdness has, it is not complimented by having two big productions leading off each album side.

[Runaways]

i like viewing smiley smile as the cover shows it.  that building with the "smile" on it is actually "SMiLE" or at least the building on the original cover of smile.  you burn SMiLE in a fireplace and out the chimney of the building the smoke forms "smiley smile". 

makes sense in mah head.

[rogerlancelot]

What is Smile anyway? Is it the album that has "Barbara Ann" and "Kokomo" on it? You people seem to talk about it a lot. I bet you it's not as good as Peter Frampton's "Where I Should Be". He doesn't take all of the drugs that Mike Jardine or Al Wilson does. Isn't Al blind in one eye? Has to be the drugs! I prefer Herman's Hermits any day.

 

[Mike's Beard]

Whenever I listen to Smiley Smile nowadays, I don't think about SMiLE, I think of Smiley as a stand alone record that is special because its a unique album in their discography and it was a unique album for those times. Now I don't call it the best 1967 album. Nooo way, but its one of the more unique releases of that year.

I agree with this, but I'd feel a lot better about SMILEY SMILE if it didn't include "Heroes & Villains" and "Good Vibrations"; whatever charm the stripped-down weirdness has, it is not complimented by having two big productions leading off each album side.

Don't forget the tacked on Smile coda to Vegtables. That has to be the most obvious splice of all time. They should have recorded that part in the home studio too. I wish someone had a photo of the look on the President of Capital's face when he was first presented Smiley Smile. It must have been priceless!!

[Cam Mott]

Whatever it was, it was all Brian. If he wanted to finish SMiLE it would have been finished regardless of any wishes of the group, posse, label, et al.. No one told him what or when to do, he did in his own time and you could wait for it.

Brian's explained a lot why he wanted to drop SMiLE and do Smiley. If there is anything beyond what Brian explained back in the day, I'd bet it was just his desire to do a 90 degree from what he had been doing and/or what he may have thought the Beatles were doing. Or his developing crunchy sensibilities inspired a homegrown vibe. Who knows but whatever it was it was all about his Muse and the rest could go fish.

IMO, of course.

[rogerlancelot]

Whenever I listen to Smiley Smile nowadays, I don't think about SMiLE, I think of Smiley as a stand alone record that is special because its a unique album in their discography and it was a unique album for those times. Now I don't call it the best 1967 album. Nooo way, but its one of the more unique releases of that year.

I agree with this, but I'd feel a lot better about SMILEY SMILE if it didn't include "Heroes & Villains" and "Good Vibrations"; whatever charm the stripped-down weirdness has, it is not complimented by having two big productions leading off each album side.

Don't forget the tacked on Smile coda to Vegtables. That has to be the most obvious splice of all time. They should have recorded that part in the home studio too. I wish someone had a photo of the look on the President of Capital's face when he was first presented Smiley Smile. It must have been priceless!!

Don't forget that somebody had to master it as well...

I still enjoy the story of a friend of mine (since passed away) who bought Smiley Smile when it first came out. Him and his friends listened to it once then took it off of the turntable and flew it frisbee style into a tree.

[Mike's Beard]

The thing is as much as I like the bloody thing now, if I'd have been a teen back then, I imagine I'd have done the same thing!!

[Curtis Leon]

Whenever I listen to Smiley Smile nowadays, I don't think about SMiLE, I think of Smiley as a stand alone record that is special because its a unique album in their discography and it was a unique album for those times. Now I don't call it the best 1967 album. Nooo way, but its one of the more unique releases of that year.

I agree with this, but I'd feel a lot better about SMILEY SMILE if it didn't include "Heroes & Villains" and "Good Vibrations"; whatever charm the stripped-down weirdness has, it is not complimented by having two big productions leading off each album side.

Don't forget the tacked on Smile coda to Vegtables. That has to be the most obvious splice of all time. They should have recorded that part in the home studio too. I wish someone had a photo of the look on the President of Capital's face when he was first presented Smiley Smile. It must have been priceless!!

I suppose you could say they DID record that part in the home studio - It comes in right after the SMiLE part. Odd, odd way of handling it.

[thebaron]

Check out this thread for info on the I'm Waiting For The Day bleed through: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=112858

Seriously though, once you've heard it, you can't not hear it so proceed with caution.  Now it bugs me every time I play the song and I probably would have never caught on to it had it not been pointed out to me.

I always thought this was some kind of bleed-through from an adjacent echo chamber. Or two studios patched into the same echo chamber by accident.  Listening to it again, I don't hear much echo on it though. But it sounds too clear to be just an improperly erased tape.

[filledeplage]

Sgt. Pepper's only problem is over saturation and mass acceptance and decades of adoration. Because of that people with limited perspective sometime feel the need to take a contrary point of view because they feel hip or more original doing that. In the context of summer 1967 Sgt. Peppers was like a cultural orgasm. It blew everything away. In its moment it was the most progressive artistic statement by a mainstream artist that also had an equal commercial impact. There never has been an avante-garde household item with the penetration of Sgt. Peppers. Because of its hugeness of course there is backlash. Smiley Smiley is a tiny blip in comparison. What I like about Smiley is how lame it is...funny...or even pathetic. Yes moments of beauty and the singles are great. The album is quirky in a wonderful, original way...its way more daring than Pepper or most anything. But i doubt that was exactly intentional. Its like Brian had a brain fart in the middle of a brilliant hallucination and then he pooped his pants a little and went into a laughing fit that ended up with him crying in a fetal position. Smiley Smile is kind of retarded...but that doesn't mean its bad...and for many of us that derailed quality is what makes it good. As a 1967 statement nobody...and I mean nobody cared. It had no impact. The Beach Boys and Brian were in free fall as cultural icons and Smiley just made them fall a little faster. Sgt. Peppers was the opposite of that. It solidified and even raised The Beatles standing across the board, artistically, commercially, it made them hipper and it made them more mainstream...all in one fell swoop. Smiley Smile...ummm...it was so bad then, that its good now.

\
Jon - Hope you don't mind my finding your reflections here, as a newer thread on this work, has cropped up.  Someone from across the sea (not the pond!) sent this along, http:// www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNnPl99-MFwfeature=related (hope this works!)

I watched the 10 or so sections the other day and found that I liked it because the narrator did not put words in the Boys' mouths and let the work "speak for itself" rather than all this editorializing all over the place so that people are more influenced by someone else's opinion rather than formulating their own, with their own native intelligence...

One thing I will say with respect to the Sgt. Pepper comparison (and it is like old Solomon story) that the cover (Smiley Smile) being in
green did not exactly make it "pop" in the LP display cases in the record stores.  Also, it was more in "primary colors" which as a former Kindergarten teacher learned that red, yellow and blue are the colors from which all the others emanate, and primarily "red" which is used for stop signs, red lights, almost universally because of its length in the visual color spectrum.  And, I am not "dissing the art" which is lovely, but, whether the original artwork might have helped it visually stand up to the essentially "primary colors" of Sgt. Pepper. Physiologically and from no other "value judgment" perspective, the human eye "goes for" red, yellow and blue, as primary colors, before it goes to green, orange and purple, as we learned in teacher training. 

That said, the initial design of the storefront in more primary colors might have been used for marketing the album more successfully.  That is one digression from someone who looked for Smiley when it was released for the "inside" LP and beyond the green cover.  It is not so much the artwork, which is fine, but perhaps not the best to "pop" and stand out among a plethora of other competing LP's at the time. 

The other thing about this video is that Brian discusses in one segment the fact that he/they worked so hard and for so long on it that that  had to "get away from it " for awhile (Brian's words paraphrased) for awhile...and that is the reason.  I was not there so I don't know but those are Brian's words.  I like that there are clips with the Boys' own reflections and responses to both music and other issues.  I think they tell the story best in a format that allows them to tell it.   

What seems pretty evident to me is that despite Brian's great band (and I like them a lot) the tracks which are not far off from Smiley plus whatever was released on Box Sets or on my French edition, described as bonus tracks are not far afield from what Brian released in '04 with his band.  I sat in the audience and listened to "what I had already heard" and not new material. 

Someone in another thread mentioned pretty astutely, and I think correctly, having lived through those Andy Warhol/Peter Max/Sr. Corita Kent, etc.(Abstract Expressionism) pop art days, I think that the Boys' approach to "psychedelia" was, IIRC, a lighter and "airier" approach and I think that is right on the money. I never thought of "light and airy" but it seems that it is so.  And, that vocally, no one, compares to the Beach Boys vocals, in 1967, at a vocal peak, as it were for that work.  I would love to see a box set of Smile Sessions of the Boys.   


   

[OneEar/OneEye]

I still adhere to the school of thought that Smiley WAS Smile.   Brian heard Strawberry Fields and felt the Beatles had gotten to that big, freak out production thing first, so not being a "follower" he went in the opposite direction and made the small, intimate freak out production.  Taking the key elements of what he had wanted to do with Smile and bringing them down to their essence.  I personally think Smiley Smile is a much more interesting album than Pepper ever was and certainly over time it remains so - it's still a mystery in a lot of ways, where Pepper is just Pepper.
Smile would have been awesome had it been, but Smiley was, and it's great, unique, and fun.  IMO one of the best albums they ever did.

[Peter Reum]

I would place Smiley Smile as one of the most radical and inflential uses of the human voice as an instrument. It has influenced numerous vocal composers and arrangers since its release. The bridge ti the Smiley version of Wonderful has been lauded and copied in several choral compositions since SS came out.

Brian`s use of human voice to convey emotions was never so finely honed as on SS. In particular, his use of various vocalists became finely crafted vocal equivalents of Zen minimalist paintings, which he was exposed to at the time.

I think of Arny Geller`s GOOD!, Mike Love`s Yogi Bear "Ting a Liiiiinnnngggg," the reversed laughs on Vegetables, the Little Pad herb vocals, and the distorted voices in Fall Breaks among others as examples. Brian`s tonal cameos on SS are the opposite of what he was trying to do with Smile `66, and in my opinion, just as creatively radical.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Brilliant post, Peter!