Check out Dave's guitar fills on this recent performance of SOS

[JanBerryFarm]

yeah, the headless thing just means they sat the heads on the floor. Done that a million times.

[guitarfool2002]

So Brian's bass's. In the early pictures (1962 & '63) he has a black bass. In the later pictures (1964) he's holding what I assume is an Olympic white bass. Are they both Fender Precisions or no? Can't tell what kind of bass Al's got in that '63 shot either.

They are both Fender Precisions: Could the black bass actually be the sunburst bass that Brian is holding at Capitol's studios on Surfin' Safari, and other early appearances? The sunburst can look black in the photos. I'd bet Al just took that same Fender P-Bass with him to Hawaii.

[guitarfool2002]

yeah, the headless thing just means they sat the heads on the floor. Done that a million times.

Definitely, and my reason for posting that one was to show that same cabinet which later seems to have been given a new grill cloth or lost/replaced entirely.

[JanBerryFarm]

So Brian's bass's. In the early pictures (1962 & '63) he has a black bass. In the later pictures (1964) he's holding what I assume is an Olympic white bass. Are they both Fender Precisions or no? Can't tell what kind of bass Al's got in that '63 shot either.

They are both Fender Precisions: Could the black bass actually be the sunburst bass that Brian is holding at Capitol's studios on Surfin' Safari, and other early appearances? The sunburst can look black in the photos. I'd bet Al just took that same Fender P-Bass with him to Hawaii.

Certainly there is no black P-bass. It's the Sunburst.  Never seen anything from that era but the SB and the White.
Al is seen with the sunburst and later with the white. Glenn Campbell with the white.

[Jon Stebbins]

So Brian's bass's. In the early pictures (1962 & '63) he has a black bass. In the later pictures (1964) he's holding what I assume is an Olympic white bass. Are they both Fender Precisions or no? Can't tell what kind of bass Al's got in that '63 shot either.

They are both Fender Precisions: Could the black bass actually be the sunburst bass that Brian is holding at Capitol's studios on Surfin' Safari, and other early appearances? The sunburst can look black in the photos. I'd bet Al just took that same Fender P-Bass with him to Hawaii.

That's right. I even have a photo from later in '63 (somewhere) where Al is again filling in for Brian, but this time Al's playing the Olympic White bass.

[guitarfool2002]

Mikie, here is a photo from Western studios (the recent Smile-GV film discovery) of what I think shows Carl playing the white Precision Bass as the sunburst Precision Bass is seen sitting off to the left side:



I may be way off but i think those were both Brian's basses (or maybe 'band basses'), and I think the same white one is also seen being carried and played by Glen Campbell in a few of those shots from his stint on the road. Does that sound right?

[Jon Stebbins]

Mikie, here is a photo from Western studios (the recent Smile-GV film discovery) of what I think shows Carl playing the white Precision Bass as the sunburst Precision Bass is seen sitting off to the left side:



I may be way off but i think those were both Brian's basses (or maybe 'band basses'), and I think the same white one is also seen being carried and played by Glen Campbell in a few of those shots from his stint on the road. Does that sound right?

Sounds right to me.

[JanBerryFarm]

*hehe* That Monkeys Uncle picture is amusing. Another case where we're supposed to accept that Al, Carl AND Brian all play through one amp.    Rendered academic since they're lipsyncing anyway.  Gotta love that clip. Mike is movin' and groovin'. Annette digs his act (but secretly digs Dennis, I'm sure).

[Jon Stebbins]

Mike is movin' and groovin'. Annette digs his act (but secretly digs Dennis, I'm sure).

She has said that exact thing in interviews.

[JanBerryFarm]

Mikie, here is a photo from Western studios (the recent Smile-GV film discovery) of what I think shows Carl playing the white Precision Bass as the sunburst Precision Bass is seen sitting off to the left side:



I may be way off but i think those were both Brian's basses (or maybe 'band basses'), and I think the same white one is also seen being carried and played by Glen Campbell in a few of those shots from his stint on the road. Does that sound right?

Sounds right to me.

I see the bass leaning on a late 50's Tweed combo amp...Probably either a Fender PRO, or a Fender 4x10 Bassman. My guess is, it belonged to Western and stayed there for recording sessions.
Carl is playing a guitar. Hard to make out, but I'm seeing a Jaguar., not a bass. Machine heads are too small for a P-bass. Neck is too short too for a bass .... Carls arm would be more extended.

I'm guessing there is a boom-mic in front of the amp , blocked by Carl. You can see it's shadow on the wall complete with mic cable..

[Danimalist]

Cool pics!
I'm well aware of the Beach Boys use of the Jaguar. I bought a '64 decades ago largely because of a picture I had of Carl holding one. While tone-wise, Jags are almost limitless given the pick-up configuration, the neck does not lend itself to bending notes. It's great that Dave's playing pleases many of you, perhaps as being somewhat more "authentic," but he never was the lead guitarist of the Beach Boys, other than Mike's touring band. He's a fine rhythm player and probably adequate for Mike's touring Boys.
But he's out of the county fair circuit now and in the big leagues; I think he needs to up his game or share the opportunities more frequently with the several more talented players on the stage.

[guitarfool2002]

Mikie, here is a photo from Western studios (the recent Smile-GV film discovery) of what I think shows Carl playing the white Precision Bass as the sunburst Precision Bass is seen sitting off to the left side:



I may be way off but i think those were both Brian's basses (or maybe 'band basses'), and I think the same white one is also seen being carried and played by Glen Campbell in a few of those shots from his stint on the road. Does that sound right?

Sounds right to me.

I see the bass leaning on a late 50's Tweed combo amp...Probably either a Fender PRO, or a Fender 4x10 Bassman. My guess is, it belonged to Western and stayed there for recording sessions.
Carl is playing a guitar. Hard to make out, but I'm seeing a Jaguar., not a bass. Machine heads are too small for a P-bass. Neck is too short too for a bass .... Carls arm would be more extended.

I'm guessing there is a boom-mic in front of the amp , blocked by Carl. You can see it's shadow on the wall complete with mic cable..

Carl is playing a bass, trust me: I have other frames like this where the 4 tuning pegs are more visible

[Jon Stebbins]

Cool pics!
I'm well aware of the Beach Boys use of the Jaguar. I bought a '64 decades ago largely because of a picture I had of Carl holding one. While tone-wise, Jags are almost limitless given the pick-up configuration, the neck does not lend itself to bending notes. It's great that Dave's playing pleases many of you, perhaps as being somewhat more "authentic," but he never was the lead guitarist of the Beach Boys, other than Mike's touring band. He's a fine rhythm player and probably adequate for Mike's touring Boys.
But he's out of the county fair circuit now and in the big leagues; I think he needs to up his game or share the opportunities more frequently with the several more talented players on the stage.

Are you aware of Dave's studio and live credits from the late 60's to late '70's? Delaney and Bonnie, Leon Russell, Warren Zevon, T-Bone Burnett, Delbert McClinton, The Moon, Colours, Joe C*cker etc... He played lead on all of those projects. He hasn't been a rhythm player since '63, and that designation was purely a Murry Wilson assignment, as Carl and Dave's orig. guitar teacher the late John Maus (John Walker of the Walker Brothers) has stated clearly in interviews that David was ahead of Carl in guitar ability, but never allowed to show it in the studio due to Murry's control of the situation. When the Beach Boys played live in those first years it was a different story, David and Carl traded leads, and I have at least one review that states David was the only musician in the early Beach Boys who was skilled on his instrument. Nothing here meant to put Carl down, David absolutely loved his playing, and from sitting and playing guitars with David myself I can vouch for his ability to emulate Carl's style like no one else I've heard. Not to argue, or drag out the thread, you have your opinion, that's fine, however I'm wondering about the context and perspective you are coming from...with such certainty the other guitar players on that stage are David's superiors. They are all great, but in the context of guitar history none of them have done a fraction of what he has. It would seem a minimum of respect should be afforded David despite your disappointment with what you saw in Berkeley. That is unless you buy into the long debunked myth that Dave was a quick fill-in with no part in the Beach Boys architecture. If that is indeed the case then you have some knowledge to gain.

[JanBerryFarm]

Isn't there something on one of the early Beach Boy albums to the effect that if music gets too perfect it's not authentic ?

Seems I recall reading that. It still rings true.

I don't want flawless, letter perfect readings, everytime. It's not FUN when it gets to that point.

[JanBerryFarm]

Mikie, here is a photo from Western studios (the recent Smile-GV film discovery) of what I think shows Carl playing the white Precision Bass as the sunburst Precision Bass is seen sitting off to the left side:



I may be way off but i think those were both Brian's basses (or maybe 'band basses'), and I think the same white one is also seen being carried and played by Glen Campbell in a few of those shots from his stint on the road. Does that sound right?

Sounds right to me.

I see the bass leaning on a late 50's Tweed combo amp...Probably either a Fender PRO, or a Fender 4x10 Bassman. My guess is, it belonged to Western and stayed there for recording sessions.
Carl is playing a guitar. Hard to make out, but I'm seeing a Jaguar., not a bass. Machine heads are too small for a P-bass. Neck is too short too for a bass .... Carls arm would be more extended.

I'm guessing there is a boom-mic in front of the amp , blocked by Carl. You can see it's shadow on the wall complete with mic cable..

Carl is playing a bass, trust me: I have other frames like this where the 4 tuning pegs are more visible

Yes, I see that now. Interesting pix...thanks.

[Jonathan Blum]

I'm loving this thread now, BTW.  An incipient flamewar bitchfest gets headed off by lots of incredibly detailed, knowledgable, and photo-reference-filled discussion of deep-level trivia.  That's the exact opposite of the way message-board discussions are supposed to go!  Sometimes this board really amazes me.  :-)

Have a beer on me, folks,
Jon Blum

[the professor]

Can anyone attempt a track by track catalogue of what DM is playing on guitar on the 7 songs attributing him?  I want to celebrate his every fill, hook, noodle, and solo, but I don't want to confuse him with Baxter or anyone else.

For example, on the title track:  he's playing the 3-time "cluck a cluck" rhythm on the first verse, and he's playing the languid response fills after "cruising at 7" and "push button heaven" and at the parallel parts in the next verse.

It's he playing the plaintive lines around the lyrics in Summer's Gone.

Etc.

I am guessing. Anyone need to know as I do?

[JanBerryFarm]

I'm loving this thread now, BTW.  An incipient flamewar bitchfest gets headed off by lots of incredibly detailed, knowledgable, and photo-reference-filled discussion of deep-level trivia.  That's the exact opposite of the way message-board discussions are supposed to go!  Sometimes this board really amazes me.  :-)

Have a beer on me, folks,
Jon Blum

  What does incipient mean ?

[Jonathan Blum]

What does incipient mean ?

"Developing".

Yeah, it got heated, but it coulda gotten way worse than it did.  Lots of photos of amps headed that off!

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[JanBerryFarm]

"developing" ah... yes... a marvelous word. Right up there with ubiquitous.

Example: The photo-lab is incipient my pictures!   eesh, no, that's doesn't work.  

But yeah, the Beach Boy gear pix salvaged the thread and the day (thankfully).  

[mabewa]

Seems kind of presumptuous that anyone here should suggest how Dave can be more "appropriate" performing the material he and Carl developed and recorded as teenagers. And also telling him how he should play his Jaguar (don't bend notes) is slightly anal. Dave's the kind of musician who likes to explore with his tones and his leads. I saw him play a horrible solo on Do You Wanna Dance at the Hollywood Bowl, in fact David and I laughed about it afterwards, and he told me that song gives him trouble because its a quirky progression under the solo, but the next night in Irvine he played it so beautifully and cool, referencing the record...but also stretching out into uncharted territory. It was one of the best things of the night. I like the way he takes chances, and doesn't copy the records per se. He will make mistakes on occasion, or have an off lead here and there, but the good ones are absolutely special...and BTW Brian obviously really digs the way Dave has been playing on the tour, check out the you tube clips. As far as how Dave plays, its his prerogative, its his band, and he played more guitar on Beach Boys classics than any of us. I've been playing the guitar for 46 years and I'd be embarrassed to think i know more than him.

BTW...he did play a Jaguar with the Beach Boys for much of 1963.


I really agree with this post.  I'd rather hear a musician take chances and sometimes fall on their face, especially if it means that they have other moments that are great and unique, rather than having people who get it right all the time, but don't surprise. 

[the professor]

Seems kind of presumptuous that anyone here should suggest how Dave can be more "appropriate" performing the material he and Carl developed and recorded as teenagers. And also telling him how he should play his Jaguar (don't bend notes) is slightly anal. Dave's the kind of musician who likes to explore with his tones and his leads. I saw him play a horrible solo on Do You Wanna Dance at the Hollywood Bowl, in fact David and I laughed about it afterwards, and he told me that song gives him trouble because its a quirky progression under the solo, but the next night in Irvine he played it so beautifully and cool, referencing the record...but also stretching out into uncharted territory. It was one of the best things of the night. I like the way he takes chances, and doesn't copy the records per se. He will make mistakes on occasion, or have an off lead here and there, but the good ones are absolutely special...and BTW Brian obviously really digs the way Dave has been playing on the tour, check out the you tube clips. As far as how Dave plays, its his prerogative, its his band, and he played more guitar on Beach Boys classics than any of us. I've been playing the guitar for 46 years and I'd be embarrassed to think i know more than him.

BTW...he did play a Jaguar with the Beach Boys for much of 1963.


I really agree with this post.  I'd rather hear a musician take chances and sometimes fall on their face, especially if it means that they have other moments that are great and unique, rather than having people who get it right all the time, but don't surprise. 

Yes, I was at both shows and noted Dave's evolved work on DYWTD, and I agree with the ever learned Jon that this freshness and originality and artistic play are part of the new freedom that all the BB are celebrating and sharing. I am so happy for Dave that I cannot put it into words; I would not have attended thee shows now listened to the album 10 times at day nor communed with all of you board members unless he were part of it.  Poetic justice, epic convention, classical archetype:  all these narratological imperatives require David, and I cannot believe they have all been fulfilled.

[SIP.FLAC]

David rules. I'd love to see David break down more of those songs as he did in the PBS special with Surfer Girl and Surfin USA. Carl and David's guitar playing (and sometimes Al's bass playing) should be praised.