Check out Dave's guitar fills on this recent performance of SOS

[guitarfool2002]

For more shots, here are three "rehearsal" photos and one stage photo in color, which I've lightened up a bit, and showing these amps. I borrowed the pics from Getty/Michael Ochs, so there are watermarks clouding some of them. Notice the lack of the Ampeg in the color stage photo, seemingly replaced by a Bassman. In the rehearsal shots, Al seems to be the one plugged into the oxblood Reverb Unit then into that Bassman.

[JanBerryFarm]

For more shots, here are three "rehearsal" photos and one stage photo in color, which I've lightened up a bit, and showing these amps. I borrowed the pics from Getty/Michael Ochs, so there are watermarks clouding some of them. Notice the lack of the Ampeg in the color stage photo, seemingly replaced by a Bassman. In the rehearsal shots, Al seems to be the one plugged into the oxblood Reverb Unit then into that Bassman.

IN the color shot, the amp by the drums has got to be a Showman, not a bassman.
It's too wide to be a Bassman.

In THAT pciture is almost seems that Al and Carl are doubling up on the amp furtherst away, Brian is using the Showman next to the drums and the amp behind Mike could be used for vocal mics. I don't see any PA system at all. They have to be amplifying their voices somehow ?!

[guitarfool2002]

I always laugh at whoever placed those microphones because they have them tilted toward the amp heads - which no sound comes from - rather than at or near the speakers, where you would normally have them. I don't get that decision, and you're losing at least half of the volume and tone of the amp by mic'ing that way. Yet the concert still sounded good! Smaller stage - Go figure.

Ah! not so fast. Those are expensive ribbon mics; the kind you see Brian singing into on the cover of BEACH BOYS CONCERT. They're basically high quality studio mics that don't 'aim' at a speaker or a sound source like a ball mic or a SM57. They receive their sound at the side, not the top.

So it makes sense that they are placed in that configuration. Besides, even if they are placed slightly off axis, it's probably on purpose. Those are expensive and sensative mics. The engineers would place them carefully to avoid potential damage, since they are primarily vocal mics and not particularly designed for blasting guitar.

They're perfectly placed actually, to avoid 'beaming' from the speaker cones, which tend to be a bit harsh when miced point blank.

I'm glad they used those mics. The audio for the Lost Concert is quite pleasing.

I disagree about them placing them that way for the best results, but I'll definitely agree to disagree! The heart of the sound is shooting right past and under the mic, going from the location of the speaker and the angle of the mic as shown - granted, they are ribbon mics and more prone to damage from the air being pushed out a cranked amp/speaker, but you're losing the meaty parts of the tone and the cabinet by doing that. Just IMO.

They'd have just as good of a result jamming an EV 666 right up on the grillcloth, and not compromise anything sonically or risk blowing out those RCA 77's, but that's my opinion. And my preference when recording guitars...

Above all, it sounded good for 1964 live concert standards! What they did obviously worked.

[guitarfool2002]

IN the color shot, the amp by the drums has got to be a Showman, not a bassman.
It's too wide to be a Bassman.

It looks like a matching white Bassman and 2x12 is far left behind Al and Carl, the Showman in the center, the oxblood Bassman and mismatched cab is far right.

Could this concert photo be just before Brian got the Ampeg?

[JanBerryFarm]

I always laugh at whoever placed those microphones because they have them tilted toward the amp heads - which no sound comes from - rather than at or near the speakers, where you would normally have them. I don't get that decision, and you're losing at least half of the volume and tone of the amp by mic'ing that way. Yet the concert still sounded good! Smaller stage - Go figure.

Ah! not so fast. Those are expensive ribbon mics; the kind you see Brian singing into on the cover of BEACH BOYS CONCERT. They're basically high quality studio mics that don't 'aim' at a speaker or a sound source like a ball mic or a SM57. They receive their sound at the side, not the top.

So it makes sense that they are placed in that configuration. Besides, even if they are placed slightly off axis, it's probably on purpose. Those are expensive and sensative mics. The engineers would place them carefully to avoid potential damage, since they are primarily vocal mics and not particularly designed for blasting guitar.

They're perfectly placed actually, to avoid 'beaming' from the speaker cones, which tend to be a bit harsh when miced point blank.

I'm glad they used those mics. The audio for the Lost Concert is quite pleasing.

I disagree about them placing them that way for the best results, but I'll definitely agree to disagree! The heart of the sound is shooting right past and under the mic, going from the location of the speaker and the angle of the mic as shown - granted, they are ribbon mics and more prone to damage from the air being pushed out a cranked amp/speaker, but you're losing the meaty parts of the tone and the cabinet by doing that. Just IMO.

They'd have just as good of a result jamming an EV 666 right up on the grillcloth, and not compromise anything sonically or risk blowing out those RCA 77's, but that's my opinion. And my preference when recording guitars...

Above all, it sounded good for 1964 live concert standards! What they did obviously worked.

Well then, we do disagree.  

The 'heart' of the sound, as you refer to it, is the 'beaming' I refered to. In some circles that is called 'ice-pick'. Some amp makers (not Fender) actually have little devices called 'Beam blockers'. They strap onto the front of the cabinet and center right in front of the JBL aluminum dust covers which are typically the source of the offending ice-pick.
I'm pretty sure that the Engineers knew what they were doing. And even if they didn't, ya can't blame them for trying to protect their valuable mics.

I believe the best sound  from guitar amps does come from placing the mic slightly off-center. I've seen it many times. Additionally, I've been in recording stuios where they miced the speaker from the open back of the amp, rather than the front. I believe that's an accepted method.

[guitarfool2002]

Re: The lack of a PA. Good point, either the speakers are out of the camera's view or they really were running them through a regular piggyback amp, although I can't imagine that with 3 mics. It would sound terrible in the back of the hall! Not to mention the potential of blowing out the amp.

And are Mike and Brian using those gold mics? Like Morrison on the Smothers Brothers:

[JanBerryFarm]

It looks like a matching white Bassman and 2x12 is far left behind Al and Carl, the Showman in the center, the oxblood Bassman and mismatched cab is far right.

Could this concert photo be just before Brian got the Ampeg?

If you're asking me, my take is that Brian had the Ampeg for recording purposes, since they sound incredible. He (they) probably took the Ampeg along when he wanted a certain sound, or possibly if the Fender was unavailable. It seems kinda like they only made sure to have the nicely matching Fenders at high profile events where they expected a lot of publicity and tons of photographs.

Then again, once they got larger and more powerful blackface gear, they made an effort to have perfectly matching amps as well as matching white guitars. So, the Oxblood head and the occasional Ampeg went by the wayside. (probably to the Beach Boys warehouse. )

[Mikie]

So what mics are they using. Carl and Al on an omni-directional, Mike and Brian using a uni-directional? Shure SM's, RCA's, and Electrovoices and AKG's? And for recording, the Telefunken's in those days?

[guitarfool2002]

Well then, we do disagree. 

The 'heart' of the sound, as you refer to it, is the 'beaming' I refered to. In some circles that is called 'ice-pick'. Some amp makers (not Fender) actually have little devices called 'Beam blockers'. They strap onto the front of the cabinet and center right in front of the JBL aluminum dust covers which are typically the source of the offending ice-pick.
I'm pretty sure that the Engineers knew what they were doing. And even if they didn't, ya can't blame them for trying to protect their valuable mics.

I believe the best sound  from guitar amps does come from placing the mic slightly off-center. I've seen it many times. Additionally, I've been in recording stuios where they miced the speaker from the open back of the amp, rather than the front. I believe that's an accepted method.

I guess it's all in the engineer's preference and the way the speakers and amps sound and respond, I've seen all kinds of setups and truthfully none of them have sounded that bad! With closed-back cabinets like those Fenders in the BB's photos, I've had good results with a dynamic, usually a 57 or the 666, touching the grillcloth, just a few inches off to the side of the cone so it's not dead center, and if it gets too much of something, just tilt the mic angle a bit. But it's still right up on the speaker grill, I guess I prefer that close sound. And for ambience, we'd do a condenser a few feet back to get any cabinet depth sounds and all that - again, just a preference especially if the cabinet has a certain rumble to it like some Marshalls.

The mic'ing the back of the amp method is something I've heard Jimmy Page used on his Led Zep tracks often, but he also had mics all over the room, up at the ceiling, etc. He went crazy with the room sounds...

[JanBerryFarm]

If you look closely at those LOST CONCERT pix, the mics are aimed pretty much at the speakers - just not point blank.

Since the pickup is from the side, and not the top, it only follows that the top of the mic capsule would be closer to the amp head. Those are rather large mics.

Wasn't that done in a network studio? CBS? NBC? The big boys always had the best stuff.  

Also, Brian Wilson knew all about mics and mic placement. I'm sure that something like misplaced recording mics would not have escaped his attention.

As far as the PA goes. Actually, Fender amps can work fairly well as vocal amps.  Certainly not ideal, but in a pinch.
I get the idea from what I've read, that in those days, there was a lot of pinch.

[guitarfool2002]

So what mics are they using. Carl and Al on an omni-directional, Mike and Brian using a uni-directional? Shure SM's, RCA's, and Electrovoices and AKG's? And for recording, the Telefunken's in those days?

This is a tough question, actually! It has to depend on which studio they were recording, which venue they did the show, etc. The best way I've found to narrow it down is to go on photos we have available and ID them from those where possible.

One example is that Chuck Britz has said he'd have a cheaper dynamic mic, the Shure 545, for certain vocals from Brian, yet the only mics I see in studio photos on vocals are the RCA 77 ribbons, the RCA 44 ribbons, the Telefunken/Neumann U47 or the U67, and most famously around Pet Sounds studio photos the AKG C12. To put it into perspective, the 545 can still be bought for under 100 dollars new, and the others if original and working can sell into the 5-figure price range.

Are there any specific photos in question where they are using a certain mic setup, either live or in studio? If live, it would also depend on what the venue would supply versus the band hauling their own mics around from gig to gig. I'm guessing that, anyway.

[JanBerryFarm]

Are there any specific photos in question where they are using a certain mic setup, either live or in studio? If live, it would also depend on what the venue would supply versus the band hauling their own mics around from gig to gig. I'm guessing that, anyway.

Precisely. Atlas Sound!!!    Depends on the era too. By 1967 the Beach Boys had their own state-of-the art sound system. I'm sure that in the early days, like other 'teen combos' , they had a suitcase full of Shure ball mics, amphenal unbalanced cables and plastic mic holders that they hauled around with them in a suitcase.

Imagine the kind of PA systems they would have to endure during their sweeps through the midwest in 1963.

Bummer

[Jon Stebbins]

Here's a shot from the Hollywood Bowl, October 19, 1963, a couple of months after Dave left the road.  Might be the same Fender amps.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,13152.0.html

14 days after David left the road. His last show was Oct 5th in San Diego.

[guitarfool2002]

If you look closely at those LOST CONCERT pix, the mics are aimed pretty much at the speakers - just not point blank.

Since the pickup is from the side, and not the top, it only follows that the top of the mic capsule would be closer to the amp head. Those are rather large mics.

Wasn't that done in a network studio? CBS? NBC? The big boys always had the best stuff.  

Also, Brian Wilson knew all about mics and mic placement. I'm sure that something like misplaced recording mics would not have escaped his attention.

As far as the PA goes. Actually, Fender amps can work fairly well as vocal amps.  Certainly not ideal, but in a pinch.
I get the idea from what I've read, that in those days, there was a lot of pinch.

It wasn't a network, as far as I remember: It was done specifically for closed circuit broadcast in theaters, where they would show this concert and the Beatles Washington DC concert among other bands. But I need to research that one again, I can't remember if a network studio was involved.

It's interesting to mention Fender amps: Eventually by the late 60's the amp makers started to sell amps designed to handle a 'full band' setup, so everyone in the garage could plug into a single amp. For the most part they were sub-standard, but the concept in the garage band era was a great one!

From experience, I wouldn't plug too much other than a guitar into a Fender tube guitar amp. This comes after learning an expensive lesson which no one bothered to tell me about vintage Fender guitar amps: Do not run a bass through the amp, unless it is a bass amp like a Bassman. I tried to put a Jazz Bass through the ol' Bandmaster, and it cost me a few hundred to fix...(it did sound absolutely amazing for the 5 minutes or so before it blew out  )

Having said all that, I have also heard old war stories of working bands having vocals, guitar, accordion, bass, whatever going through those late 50's tweed Bassman amps at various gigs and it worked, but probably didn't sound all that good.

[JanBerryFarm]

Stebbins, sir, can you verify that Brian actually used a Showman amp back in the day, rather than a Bassman.

Bassmans (even then) are notoriously underpowered for bass, and most often ended up being used for guitar.

For the record, Brian often used Ampeg amps. Check out the huge rig he was playing through in Sacto in the Beach Boys Concert Lp pics.
Huge 2-15 cabinet, which was uncommon at that point, I think.

Working on an answer to this. Photo evidence is always best. The photo I posted from '63 looks like he's playing through a black face Fender (bassman or showman).

Jon Stebbins ~ is it possible for you to post a hi-res version of this image? Some interesting visual information  might reveal itself.

[Jon Stebbins]

This could be a photo of Brian's amp with its original cabinet.

[guitarfool2002]

This could be a photo of Brian's amp with its original cabinet.

Bingo! Awesome shot. That looks like the way the Bassman amp came from the factory. That cabinet probably got trashed somewhere/somehow on the road, and they replaced it with the one in all the other shots. or maybe they just replaced the cloth after it got ripped, but it didn't match.

Thanks for that great pic!

[Jon Stebbins]

Another shot showing an amp from Hawaii '63.

[Jon Stebbins]

Stebbins, sir, can you verify that Brian actually used a Showman amp back in the day, rather than a Bassman.

Bassmans (even then) are notoriously underpowered for bass, and most often ended up being used for guitar.

For the record, Brian often used Ampeg amps. Check out the huge rig he was playing through in Sacto in the Beach Boys Concert Lp pics.
Huge 2-15 cabinet, which was uncommon at that point, I think.

Working on an answer to this. Photo evidence is always best. The photo I posted from '63 looks like he's playing through a black face Fender (bassman or showman).

Jon Stebbins ~ is it possible for you to post a hi-res version of this image? Some interesting visual information  might reveal itself.

I think my hi res version is from a granier source so we don't pick up much detail. I'll look around.

[guitarfool2002]

Another great shot! Looks like the Showman.

Dumb question, Jon: Where is Brian and what is he playing? Seems to be Al on bass...my apologies if this has been answered before.

[Jon Stebbins]

Another great shot! Looks like the Showman.

Dumb question, Jon: Where is Brian and what is he playing? Seems to be Al on bass...my apologies if this has been answered before.

Brian didn't do the Hawaii '63 tour. Al replaced him.

BTW this is probably the earliest known photo of Al playing with the Beach Boys.

[JanBerryFarm]

This could be a photo of Brian's amp with its original cabinet.

Sure. and that appears to be the original 'Tone Ring' cabinet with the matching oxblood grill. Evidently something happened to that cabinet along the way, and it was replaced with a newer blonde cabinet with the lighter grill.

The oxblood era was relatively short. The whole blonde amp (brownface) era was pretty short too. Black tolex, for example seems to have gone on forever.

Again, that gives every indication of being a Showman head. Bassmans were NEVER matched with 'Tone Ring' cabinets.
So if that is Brians first amp, then it should be a Showman or a Bandmster., since those were the only serious Fender amps that came with 'Tone Ring' speaker cabs. The small Tremolux piggy back amp was the only other amp that fDender issued with a mastching'Tone Ring' cabinet... but they were way small and too under-powered for Bass.


I'm concluding that the amp in that picture is a brownface 'blonde' Fender 'single' Showman with either a 12" or 15" 'Tone Ring' cabinet. with matching Oxblood grill.

Whether that is his first amp or not.. I have no idea. It's certainly an early one. If it is his, then it's undoubtedly his first decent amp.

REF: this is a picture of a 1962 Fender Showman like I just described. Compare. Bassmans are not as wide.

[JanBerryFarm]

Another shot showing an amp from Hawaii '63.

This amp is without doubt a blonde brownface Showman with either a 2x12 or 2x15 cabinet to match.

[Mikie]

So Brian's bass's. In the early pictures (1962 & '63) he has a black bass. In the later pictures (1964) he's holding what I assume is an Olympic white bass. Are they both Fender Precisions or no? Can't tell what kind of bass Al's got in that '63 shot either.

[guitarfool2002]

Note the headless Fender cabinet on the bottom left:


And the Showman shows up in the "Monkey's Uncle" film: