Preview BWRG on Amazon

[brother john]

Thanks very much - will look into these.

[Ron]

On several more listens -- note the perfect backing vocal to TCTTAFM: "Boogedy boogedy boogedy shoop." A new classic nonsense phrase.

That's an old doo wopish song from 1961 by Barry Mann.  Jan & Dean recorded it and changed some of the lyrics... making Brian's choice of using that a little MORE interesting, lol.  It probably predates the song,  too, as the song intones.

"I'd like to thank the guy
Who wrote the song
That made my baby
Fall in love with me

Who put the bomp
In the bomp bah bomp bah bomp?
Who put the ram
In the rama lama ding dong?
Who put the bop
In the bop shoo bop shoo bop?
Who put the dip
In the dip da dip da dip?
Who was that man?
I'd like to shake his hand
He made my baby
Fall in love with me

When my baby heard
Bomp bah bah bomp
Bah bomp bah bomp bah bomp bomp
Every word went right into her heart
And when she heard them singin
Rama lama lama lama
Rama ding dong
She said we'd never have to part
So.........

Who put the bomp
In the bomp bah bomp bah bomp?
Who put the ram
In the rama lama ding dong?
Who put the bop
In the bop shoo bop shoo bop?
Who put the dip
In the dip da dip da dip?
Who was that man?
I'd like to shake his hand
He made my baby
Fall in love with me

Each time that were alone
Boogity boogity boogity
Boogity boogity boogity shoo
Sets my baby's heart all aglow
And everytime we dance to
Dip da dip da dip
Dip da dip da dip
She always says she loves me so
So........

Who put the bomp
In the bomp bah bomp bah bomp?
Who put the ram
In the rama lama ding dong?
Who put the bop
In the bop shoo bop shoo bop?
Who put the dip
In the dip da dip da dip?
Who was that man?
I'd like to shake his hand
He made my baby
Fall in love with me

 Barry SPEAKS: Darlin, bomp bah bah bomp, bah bomp bah bomp bomp
And my honey, rama lama ding dong forever
And when I say, dip da dip da dip da dip
You know I mean it from the bottom of my boogity boogity boogity shoo "




LOL

[Runaways]

Apart from Rhapsody I don't know any of the other originals I don't think, so it would be useful (if not essential!) to hear them so I can make a comparison, because obviously what we will be listening for are the Wilsonian parts of the songs first, and the Gershwinian parts second.

So, could anyone recommend a source for the original Gershwin recordings/arrangements (which I assume BW worked from, more or less) for me to acquire/listen to online.

Edit: Would this be any good?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/George-Gershwin-Essential-Collection/dp/B000I2KPHS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1280146375&sr=1-1



TVM!  

i would just youtube some stuff. for me, just youtube ella fitzgerald's someone to watch over me and summertime. pure amazing.  and Ella's version is one of my fav songs ever. 

someone to watch over me - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JANcQf3fjuA
summertime w/louis - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JANcQf3fjuA

another great gershwin with ella is a foggy day (in london town).

[Rocker]

On several more listens -- note the perfect backing vocal to TCTTAFM: "Boogedy boogedy boogedy shoop." A new classic nonsense phrase.

That's an old doo wopish song from 1961 by Barry Mann.  Jan & Dean recorded it and changed some of the lyrics... making Brian's choice of using that a little MORE interesting, lol.  It probably predates the song,  too, as the song intones.

"I'd like to thank the guy
Who wrote the song
That made my baby
Fall in love with me

Who put the bomp
In the bomp bah bomp bah bomp?
Who put the ram
In the rama lama ding dong?
Who put the bop
In the bop shoo bop shoo bop?
Who put the dip
In the dip da dip da dip?
Who was that man?
I'd like to shake his hand
He made my baby
Fall in love with me

When my baby heard
Bomp bah bah bomp
Bah bomp bah bomp bah bomp bomp
Every word went right into her heart
And when she heard them singin
Rama lama lama lama
Rama ding dong
She said we'd never have to part
So.........

Who put the bomp
In the bomp bah bomp bah bomp?
Who put the ram
In the rama lama ding dong?
Who put the bop
In the bop shoo bop shoo bop?
Who put the dip
In the dip da dip da dip?
Who was that man?
I'd like to shake his hand
He made my baby
Fall in love with me

Each time that were alone
Boogity boogity boogity
Boogity boogity boogity shoo
Sets my baby's heart all aglow
And everytime we dance to
Dip da dip da dip
Dip da dip da dip
She always says she loves me so
So........

Who put the bomp
In the bomp bah bomp bah bomp?
Who put the ram
In the rama lama ding dong?
Who put the bop
In the bop shoo bop shoo bop?
Who put the dip
In the dip da dip da dip?
Who was that man?
I'd like to shake his hand
He made my baby
Fall in love with me

 Barry SPEAKS: Darlin, bomp bah bah bomp, bah bomp bah bomp bomp
And my honey, rama lama ding dong forever
And when I say, dip da dip da dip da dip
You know I mean it from the bottom of my boogity boogity boogity shoo "




LOL

Bary Mann's song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIP9Dwzdt3g&feature=related

And here's Jan&Dean's version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nODwYiZHqE

[Amy B.]

I'm thinking about how so many rockers hit their peak in their 20s (maybe 30s) and never hit it again. Here's Brian, with all his problems and terrible history, and based on what little we've heard, he may have come pretty darn close to a return to the form he had in his 20s. Remarkable.

Okay, McCartney. Game on.

[Rocker]

I'm thinking about how so many rockers hit their peak in their 20s (maybe 30s) and never hit it again. Here's Brian, with all his problems and terrible history, and based on what little we've heard, he may have come pretty darn close to a return to the form he had in his 20s. Remarkable.

Although it indeed sounds terrific and like Brian did a fantastic job, we shall not forget that he didn't write those songs. In his 20s he nearly wrote all of his material

[Amy B.]

I'm thinking about how so many rockers hit their peak in their 20s (maybe 30s) and never hit it again. Here's Brian, with all his problems and terrible history, and based on what little we've heard, he may have come pretty darn close to a return to the form he had in his 20s. Remarkable.

Although it indeed sounds terrific and like Brian did a fantastic job, we shall not forget that he didn't write those songs. In his 20s he nearly wrote all of his material

This is true.

[Dunderhead]

No words...should have sent a poet.

[hypehat]

Apart from Rhapsody I don't know any of the other originals I don't think, so it would be useful (if not essential!) to hear them so I can make a comparison, because obviously what we will be listening for are the Wilsonian parts of the songs first, and the Gershwinian parts second.

So, could anyone recommend a source for the original Gershwin recordings/arrangements (which I assume BW worked from, more or less) for me to acquire/listen to online.

Edit: Would this be any good?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/George-Gershwin-Essential-Collection/dp/B000I2KPHS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1280146375&sr=1-1

TVM!  

i would just youtube some stuff. for me, just youtube ella fitzgerald's someone to watch over me and summertime. pure amazing.  and Ella's version is one of my fav songs ever.  

someone to watch over me - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JANcQf3fjuA
summertime w/louis - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JANcQf3fjuA

another great gershwin with ella is a foggy day (in london town).

Oh I nearly forgot, you NEED a Porgy and Bess in your collection. I have Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong's version, but Miles Davis' is supposed to be more 'canonical'.

[Wirestone]

There are real issues -- significant issues -- with hearing Gershwin "originals."

It boils down to this. George Gershwin wrote his songs -- not his classical pieces, mind you, but his songs -- at the tail end of an age we can't really imagine today. Popular songs were composed, then performed on stage in musicals, and then published as sheet music (sometimes the sheet music came first, and the songs were interpolated into shows). People then bought the sheet music and played it on their pianos at home.

Okay, you say, so let's listen to that sheet music. Or let's listen to Gershwin's piano rolls. Well, that's okay, and there are some period-appropriate recordings of his musicals (http://www.amazon.com/Girl-Crazy-1990-Studio-Cast/dp/B000005J0J/ref=pd_sim_m_1, http://www.amazon.com/Oh-Kay-1994-Studio-Recording/dp/B000005J3C/ref=pd_sim_m_2).

But this is not how Brian would have heard these songs.

Because around the time Gershwin began to have hits, you began to have a commercial recording business. At first, generally classical is recorded. But as the 30s go into the 40s, you begin to have a "popular" recorded music business, which is basically jazz and Broadway-type numbers.

Gershwin dies in 1937, as this is taking full form. And his songs -- and the songs of other Broadway composers such as Cole Porter and Irving Berlin, et. al -- are seized by folks in this new business. After all, musicians of the day are singers -- not songwriters -- they need material! And so all of these tunes, which were originally performed in a slightly rickety, up tempo way, begin to be arranged with a jazzy feel (Gershwin was jazzy originally, of course, but never quite as loose as his later interpreters) and with lush orchestration.

As the 40s move into the 50s and 60s, new popular music (blues, "race records" and rock) eventually seizes the kids. But there is a vibrant market of music for adults. These classic tunes keep being recorded, and are increasingly "interpreted." And these interpretations -- which would be unrecognizable to the composers of the 20s and early 30s -- are probably what someone like Brian heard.

So his Gershwin is popularized twice over. You have the originals turned into recorded standards, with extra "swing," and then Brian's move to update them again (although sometimes very slightly).

An example is called for, I think. Take the song "S'wonderful."

Here it is in 1928, shortly after it was introduced. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3-SiyX59L0

Here it is in 1964, jazzed up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5qh2jNlvWE

Here it is in the mid-2000s (in the version Brian seems to um -- draw inspiration from) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c59Osjwews4

So which of these is the "original" Gershwin tune? All of them, I'd say. If you need a reference, I would say that Ella Fitzgerald's studio collection (http://www.amazon.com/Ella-Fitzgerald-Sings-Gershwin-Songbook/dp/B000006P6L/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1280185938&sr=1-1-spell) is one of the best -- she sings the melodies pretty straight, and I think her versions represent a 50s-60s standard that would have been familiar to a young Brian.

[Wirestone]

Oh I nearly forgot, you NEED a Porgy and Bess in your collection. I have Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong's version, but Miles Davis' is supposed to be more 'canonical'.

Porgy and Bess is, properly, a three-hour opera. Neither of those versions is canonical in the sense of representing Gershwin's actual composition. They may be good jazz records, but they're not Gershwin's creation.

Simon Rattle's version of the complete opera on three disks with the London Philharmonic is really the only way to go for the classical piece: http://www.amazon.com/Gershwin-Porgy-Bess-George/dp/B000AQACX4/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1280186393&sr=1-7

Gershwin's songs are infinitely malleable, of course, but his classical work -- the instrumental stuff and P&B -- should at least be experienced as he wrote it once or twice (Gershwin seldom orchestrated his Broadway shows, for example, leaving them to others, but he actually wrote out all the orchestral parts for Porgy and most of his other classical work by hand).

[Ron]

I'm thinking about how so many rockers hit their peak in their 20s (maybe 30s) and never hit it again. Here's Brian, with all his problems and terrible history, and based on what little we've heard, he may have come pretty darn close to a return to the form he had in his 20s. Remarkable.

Okay, McCartney. Game on.

Frank Sinatra is probably the golden example.  Big hits in his 20's, Big hits in his 40's, Big hits in his 50's, big hits in his 70's.  He was incredible. 

[Ron]

To Wirestone's point:  I agree with you that Brian didn't hear Gershwin's intended versions, but the spirit of the composition remains even if it's turned into a rap song.  On top of that Brian never does a straight recording of anything he does anyways, they're all wilsonized... but again the source material is still the foundation.  I'd say Gershwin's music is a steady foundation to riff on.  

People don't make popular music the way he did, because they're really tuned into what's current, he's written truly timeless songs.  I think this album partially proves that while the recordings may be dated, the composition isn't.  It's possible to make a bad arrangement of a Gershwin song, but Brian's seldom made a bad arrangement of anything (performance notwithstanding!), and he genuinely seems inspired by Gershwin, so I expect nothing but the brilliance we know Brian's capable of from this album.  

I feel Brian's weakpoints over the years have been 1. songwriting or 2. performance... his arrangements are always interesting.  George Gershwin was an incomperable songwriter, you really cannot get a better songwriter than him... and Brian's performances seem to be outstanding on the snippets I've heard.  This is going to be one hell of an album.

If Brian could get a little help in the songwriting department on whatever material he has left in him, I think we could see some of his best stuff this late in his life.  His work with Scott has been great, I think he can be better.  

That's not to say Brian Wilson isn't a great songwriter, he of course is... but he's hit and miss.  George and Ira Gershwin are not hit and miss.

[Ron]

To Wirestone's point:  I agree with you that Brian didn't hear Gershwin's intended versions, but the spirit of the composition remains even if it's turned into a rap song.  On top of that Brian never does a straight recording of anything he does anyways, they're all wilsonized... but again the source material is still the foundation.  I'd say Gershwin's music is a steady foundation to riff on.  

People don't make popular music the way he did, because they're really tuned into what's current, he's written truly timeless songs.  I think this album partially proves that while the recordings may be dated, the composition isn't.  It's possible to make a bad arrangement of a Gershwin song, but Brian's seldom made a bad arrangement of anything (performance notwithstanding!), and he genuinely seems inspired by Gershwin, so I expect nothing but the brilliance we know Brian's capable of from this album.  

I feel Brian's weakpoints over the years have been 1. songwriting or 2. performance... his arrangements are always interesting.  George Gershwin was an incomperable songwriter, you really cannot get a better songwriter than him... and Brian's performances seem to be outstanding on the snippets I've heard.  This is going to be one hell of an album.

If Brian could get a little help in the songwriting department on whatever material he has left in him, I think we could see some of his best stuff this late in his life.  His work with Scott has been great, I think he can be better.  

That's not to say Brian Wilson isn't a great songwriter, he of course is... but he's hit and miss.  George (and Ira) Gershwin are not hit and miss.

[hypehat]

Oh I nearly forgot, you NEED a Porgy and Bess in your collection. I have Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong's version, but Miles Davis' is supposed to be more 'canonical'.

Porgy and Bess is, properly, a three-hour opera. Neither of those versions is canonical in the sense of representing Gershwin's actual composition. They may be good jazz records, but they're not Gershwin's creation.

Simon Rattle's version of the complete opera on three disks with the London Philharmonic is really the only way to go for the classical piece: http://www.amazon.com/Gershwin-Porgy-Bess-George/dp/B000AQACX4/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1280186393&sr=1-7

Gershwin's songs are infinitely malleable, of course, but his classical work -- the instrumental stuff and P&B -- should at least be experienced as he wrote it once or twice (Gershwin seldom orchestrated his Broadway shows, for example, leaving them to others, but he actually wrote out all the orchestral parts for Porgy and most of his other classical work by hand).

I meant canonical in the sense that everyone suggests it's the one you should buy..... I didn't know it was three hours! There's another £25 down the drain then....

[shelter]

Frank Sinatra is probably the golden example.  Big hits in his 20's, Big hits in his 40's, Big hits in his 50's, big hits in his 70's.  He was incredible. 

Or Cliff Richard. He had two UK top 3 hits in the 2000s, if either of them would've gone to #1, he would've had #1 hits in SIX consecutive decades. Pretty amazing.

[brother john]

To Wirestone, Hypehat and Runaways,

Thanks a lot for all the information and discussion - I've learned more than I expected to!!

I take all your points about originals. I guess that, apart from the arrangements, I want to know the other versions so that I can spot all the touches that Brian has added, though I guess that there won't be much in the way of jazzing up the songs as the originals are jazzy anyway! 

[hypehat]

Wirestone's been educating me about Gershwin as well! But I'm happy to help 

One thing that's pertinent to Wirestones post - the drastic rearranging of Gershwin tunes with the times - would be that the first version Brian heard of Rhapsody In Blue (or so I've read here) was not the 14+ minute epic of Gershwin's original, but Glenn Miller's - who slashed it to three minutes! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pBg1r-QkjI

[Amy B.]

That's not to say Brian Wilson isn't a great songwriter, he of course is... but he's hit and miss.  George and Ira Gershwin are not hit and miss.

Unless you're as familiar with the Gershwin catalog as you are with Brian's, I'm not sure you can say the Gershwins hit it out of the park with every song they wrote. Most of us (me included) are only aware of the best stuff they did. The Gershwins might have had some clunkers along the way. The other thing is that G. Gershwin had formal musical training--more than Brian did. However, I will say that overall, based on the songs I've heard, it's hard to beat the Gershwins as songwriters, and of course Brian having the problems he did had all those little snippets of songs instead of whole songs.

[Amy B.]

Frank Sinatra is probably the golden example.  Big hits in his 20's, Big hits in his 40's, Big hits in his 50's, big hits in his 70's.  He was incredible. 

Or Cliff Richard. He had two UK top 3 hits in the 2000s, if either of them would've gone to #1, he would've had #1 hits in SIX consecutive decades. Pretty amazing.

I wasn't talking about hits, but musical quality.

[shelter]

Frank Sinatra is probably the golden example.  Big hits in his 20's, Big hits in his 40's, Big hits in his 50's, big hits in his 70's.  He was incredible. 

Or Cliff Richard. He had two UK top 3 hits in the 2000s, if either of them would've gone to #1, he would've had #1 hits in SIX consecutive decades. Pretty amazing.

I wasn't talking about hits, but musical quality.

I responded to Ron and he was talking about hits.

[Amy B.]

Frank Sinatra is probably the golden example.  Big hits in his 20's, Big hits in his 40's, Big hits in his 50's, big hits in his 70's.  He was incredible. 

Or Cliff Richard. He had two UK top 3 hits in the 2000s, if either of them would've gone to #1, he would've had #1 hits in SIX consecutive decades. Pretty amazing.

I wasn't talking about hits, but musical quality.

I responded to Ron and he was talking about hits.

Oh, and here I thought Ron was responding to me, so we were all on the same topic. My mistake.   

[shelter]

I just responded to what Ron posted, not to what he was responding to. I don't see the problem.

*edit* Oh, and are you saying that Cliff Richard has no quality? 

[Amy B.]

I just responded to what Ron posted, not to what he was responding to. I don't see the problem.

There's no problem. Simple mix up. Let's just drop it.

[Rocker]

So which of these is the "original" Gershwin tune? All of them, I'd say. If you need a reference, I would say that Ella Fitzgerald's studio collection (http://www.amazon.com/Ella-Fitzgerald-Sings-Gershwin-Songbook/dp/B000006P6L/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1280185938&sr=1-1-spell) is one of the best -- she sings the melodies pretty straight, and I think her versions represent a 50s-60s standard that would have been familiar to a young Brian.

I'm absolutely not sure, I've just read it somewhere, but wasn't Ira Gershwin helping a little on Ella's record?