70's era questions for the board

[Phoenix]

Hey all, I'm on this site almost daily but haven't posted since before the release of BWPS.  I decided to finally re-register in hopes some of you could answer some of my questions.  First up: some concert instrument duties, specifically around the time of Blondie and Ricky’s tenure with the group.

To start, the Preiss book is complimentary of the bass lines on In Concert, courtesy of Ed Carter and Carl.  With Bruce gone by that point and the sound of the guitar solo on “Help Me Rhonda”, I take it Ed plays lead guitar on that one with Carl on bass but beyond that I have no idea why Carl would need to play bass, especially since Blondie (who plays it in the YNAMOHTSA video, which leads one to think he did the same when they played it live) was there as well. 

So did Ed play guitar (or something else) on any other songs from that period? Did Carl play bass on anything else from that period of was Preiss just referring to the bass lines of Ed throughout the album and Carl’s on just the one track?

Speaking of Carl, the Endless Harmony video shows him playing electric piano on “Sail On Sailor”.  Was this normal procedure for the period?  Who played the lead lines?  Blondie?  Al?  Ed?  And as for Carl’s piano playing, is that him (on piano) on “Long Promised Road”?  If so, who played the guitar solo live? 

And finally (for now), let’s talk about some guitar.  I seem to recall reading somewhere that Blondie played the slide part on “California”.  Is that correct?  If so, is that him on “Marcella” as well?  I ask because it sounds like him singing during the chorus (specifically on the Carnegie Hall recording), which while it’s not impossible to do while playing, it is a bit unlikely. 

Having not been able to see them live at the time, and with next to no live footage available, I have even more questions beyond these but I think it’s enough to spark some conversation (any new word on the Carnegie Hall DVD?) and hopefully provide me with some enlightenment.  I look forward to seeing what info you scholars have to offer.

[Emdeeh]

They switched instrument duties around, depending on the song. Carl played piano on some songs (mostly his own), lead guitar on others, etc.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that Blondie played the slide part on “California”.  Is that correct?  If so, is that him on “Marcella” as well? 

I remember seeing Ricky Fataar playing the pedal guitar with the slide. He discusses that very thing on Billy Hinsche's 1974 DVD.

[adamghost]

I've always called the Preiss quote into question.  Though it's established that Carl occasionally played bass live in the '60s ("Lei'd In Hawaii" was one example), and in the studio (15 BIG ONES), I don't buy that he was playing bass on IN CONCERT.  As you say, there's no reason for him to do so.  Blondie Chaplin did play bass early on...he may have done some of the bass on IN CONCERT.  Keep in mind Billy Hinsche was still around playing keyboards and lead guitar.

As for keyboards, Carl very likely played on "Sail On Sailor" and "Leaving This Town".  The only instance of Al Jardine playing lead guitar in the BBs that I'm aware of is the lead for "Long Promised Road" (which isn't on IN CONCERT).  I am pretty certain that the high arpeggio line that briefly sticks out on "Heroes and Villains" is Al, but I can't pick him out anywhere else on the record.

My suspicion, from having listened closely to IN CONCERT, is the bulk of the main rhythm guitar is played by Carl, and he's also doing the lead on several of the oldies.  His first position style is pretty easy to pick out, so if you listen to those parts and work your way through the other tracks, he's pretty easy to tease out on a lot of the other songs.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Wow!!!! So, is that lead on LPR on the record AL?

[c-man]

These kind of questions have intrigued me for a very long time...to the point where (as others here will attest) I've become nearly obsessive about it!

I'm pretty sure it's Blondie playing the lead on "Rhonda" in '73.  Carl's playing the boogie-style rhythm guitar (in "drop-D" tuning), as he can be seen doing in the footage from Crystal Palace Bowl the year before.  Which would leave Eddie on bass.  I've often wondered about the Preiss comment...could be he meant to write "Blondie Chaplin"...or it could be he was privy to knowledge of Carl overdubbing some studio bass parts onto the live tracks during post-production.  The one song Carl is known to have played bass on live in the early '70s is "Vegatables".

Carl played electric piano live on "Sail On Sailor", "The Trader", "Long Promised Road", "Feel Flows", "Surf's Up", and possibly others.  Al played the guitar solo on "LPR", doubled at different times by Billy Hinsche and probably Blondie.  Blondie played lead guitar live on "Sailor".

The steel guitar on the studio-recorded version of "Marcella" was played by Tony Martin.  Red Rhodes played it on "Hold On Dear Brother".  After the session for that last-named song, Ricky picked it up and played it live on "Marcella", "California Saga", and later "We Got Love" (after Blondie left).  The '73 "In Concert" verson of "We Got Love" features Blondie on regular electric slide, and Ricky on rhythm guitar (I think).  I'm not positive, but I'll bet Ricky also played the pedal steel on the studio versions of "Cal Saga" and "Got Love".

FYI, check out my website:
www.beachboysarchives.com

[c-man]

Wow!!!! So, is that lead on LPR on the record AL?

Nope...all of the instruments on the studio version of "LPR" were played by Carl.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Ok, here's the million dollar question: On IN CONCERT, what songs does Dennis play "electric piano" on? Any prominent/noticable parts and on what songs??

[astroray]

I remember Dennis  kicking off "California Saga" on Grand Piano here in Atlanta in 73 0r 74 ! Yelling for everybody to get up!

[Emdeeh]

Which was also the signal for us fans to move down to the front of the stage. 

[c-man]

I remember Dennis  kicking off "California Saga" on Grand Piano here in Atlanta in 73 0r 74 ! Yelling for everybody to get up!

Often wondered if that was him!  Glad to know.  When Dennis moved back to drums, Billy would "kick it off" on rhythm guitar.  On the "In Concert" album gatefold inner sleeve, you can see Denny playing the Moog, which he probably did on these versions of "Sloop", "You Still Believe In Me", and "Funky Pretty".  He definitely played electric piano live on "Heroes And Villians" from '71 all the way into the '80s.

[TdHabib]

I remember Dennis  kicking off "California Saga" on Grand Piano here in Atlanta in 73 0r 74 ! Yelling for everybody to get up!

I believe you, but I remember a quote where he said he HATED playing "California Saga" live, specifically the "scorched meat" part.

[c-man]

I remember Dennis  kicking off "California Saga" on Grand Piano here in Atlanta in 73 0r 74 ! Yelling for everybody to get up!

I believe you, but I remember a quote where he said he HATED playing "California Saga" live, specifically the "scorched meat" part.

Which is why they hardly ever (if indeed ever) played "Part Two" of that suite.  Astroray was probably (and I was definitely) referring to "Part Three", which they played pretty consistently from '73 to '78.  I've got live tapes (like Nassau Coliseum 6/74) where a nice little piano vamp starts the song...glad to know it was Dennis!

[adamghost]

"The Trader" - duh.  That of course is Carl too.  Wasn't certain about "Funky Pretty."  He had a real interesting way of approaching keyboards.  He played a lot of crushed chords (small intervals in the right hand) and kind of played the bass with a sort of karate chop movement on his left hand.

Al played the solo for LPR live, but it is almost certainly Carl on the record.

C-Man, any other spots for Al's guitar on IN CONCERT besides the "Heroes and Villains" one I mentioned (I'm pretty certain the reason the part sticks out is he turned up his volume knob at that point and overshot the mark)?  "Sloop John B" occurred to me later.  He definitely played a key counterpoint guitar line on that song in the '60s and was still playing it in the '00s, so I'm guessing you can hear him on that one.  I've never been able to tease out all the guitars on "Marcella," but he could be one of the three you hear (though my money is on Billy Hinsche).  Other than that, can't think of anyplace...

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Kinda sorta related: but, I love the little part on Billy's DVD where Al is, I guess, soundchecking and runs through some of the awesome Heroes And Villians chords for the camera! Very very cool moment!!!!

[Jason]

Al played some lead guitar during the 1997 tour when Carl was going through treatment for his cancer. Sometimes with the Endless Summer Band he'll play a lead or two.

Honestly, he's not a BAD lead guitarist, but his folksinger nature immediately pigeonholes him as a rhythm player. And that's fine. He was and is great at it.

[smile-holland]

They switched instrument duties around, depending on the song. Carl played piano on some songs (mostly his own), lead guitar on others, etc.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that Blondie played the slide part on “California”.  Is that correct?  If so, is that him on “Marcella” as well? 

I remember seeing Ricky Fataar playing the pedal guitar with the slide. He discusses that very thing on Billy Hinsche's 1974 DVD.

Yep, there's some great footage on that dvd.
Here's a picture of Ricky playing pedal steel guitar





Also notice that someone's doing a fine job holding up that mike ... 

[c-man]

"The Trader" - duh.  That of course is Carl too.  Wasn't certain about "Funky Pretty."  He had a real interesting way of approaching keyboards.  He played a lot of crushed chords (small intervals in the right hand) and kind of played the bass with a sort of karate chop movement on his left hand.

Al played the solo for LPR live, but it is almost certainly Carl on the record.

C-Man, any other spots for Al's guitar on IN CONCERT besides the "Heroes and Villains" one I mentioned (I'm pretty certain the reason the part sticks out is he turned up his volume knob at that point and overshot the mark)?  "Sloop John B" occurred to me later.  He definitely played a key counterpoint guitar line on that song in the '60s and was still playing it in the '00s, so I'm guessing you can hear him on that one.  I've never been able to tease out all the guitars on "Marcella," but he could be one of the three you hear (though my money is on Billy Hinsche).  Other than that, can't think of anyplace...

Hi Adam - I just remembered that Carl also used to play electric piano on the live versions of "Wild Honey" and "Wonderful" in the early '70s.  I wonder who played it on "We Got Love"...I love that great little bluesy tag on the end of the "In Concert" version.  As for Al's guitar, you are absolutely correct about the chimey arpeggio on the chorus of "H&V"...Al can be seen playing that on the 12-string in the '71 Central Park concert footage.  I seem to recall that on the new '74 DVD, Billy is seen playing piano on "Marcella", and they were down to two guitars by then, so I doubt he played guitar on the '73 version, or else he would've in '74 as well.  Al has traditionally played the rhythmic solo break on "Don't Worry Baby", so perhaps he's doing that on the '73 "In Concert" rendition as well.  Other than that, it is indeed hard to pick him out.  But...if there's two guitars audible on "The Trader", one would be him (with the other being Blondie), 'cause Carl's on electric piano and Billy's on acoustic piano, with Ed on bass.  I listened to the whole album on my Polk audio studio speakers awhile back (what a treat!  a great listening experience), and I think I "teased out" Al's guitar on "You Still Believe In Me" as well.

[Big Bri]

Since we're talking "who played what" on In Concert 1973, I've got a question about the masterpiece version of "Let The Wind Blow"?  
Who played the Grand Piano?  Who played the killer Lead Guitar solo in the middle?
And who may have been playing the Hammond Organ with that great Leslie Cabinet "whir" that can be hauntingly heard underneath?
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrjMXrf6C7Y          CD
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0WshQmpH68    Vinyl

Big Bri

[Jon Stebbins]

I listened to the whole album on my Polk audio studio speakers awhile back (what a treat!  a great listening experience), and I think I "teased out" Al's guitar on "You Still Believe In Me" as well.

Hey...I've got a set of old Polk Audio speakers...I love them.

[BillA]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRbBPhodF4Q

This video of Wild Honey from London shows Carl on electric piano, Blondie on guitar and Ed Carter on bass until the last few seconds where Ed Carter is playing the guitar solo.

What happened to Ed Carter when JWG became the bass player - did he just become the third guiterist or did he leave the band for a while?

The liner notes to the album list the supporting mucisians as Ed Carter, Billy Hinsche, Robert Kenyatta, Mike Kowalski and Carli Munoz.  No instruments are listed but I would guess that they were as follows:

Ed Carter - bass and guitar (3rd Guitar when Carl played keys)
Billy Hinsche - piano, guitar and bass (3rd guitar when Carl played keys or bass when Ed played 3rd guitar)
Robert Kenyatta - percussion
Mike Kowalski - drums and percussion (Drums when Rickey played guitar or pedal steel)
Carli Munoz - Keyboards

I always found it interesting that they never included a vibraphone in their stage show especially since it was a key element of so many of their songs.

[The infamous Baldwin Organ]

I always found it interesting that they never included a vibraphone in their stage show especially since it was a key element of so many of their songs.

Those were pre-digital days! I wouldn't want to be the guy hauling a vibraphone from stage to stage! 

[BillA]

I always found it interesting that they never included a vibraphone in their stage show especially since it was a key element of so many of their songs.

Those were pre-digital days! I wouldn't want to be the guy hauling a vibraphone from stage to stage! 

Would it be any more difficult to haul around than a piano?

[c-man]

Since we're talking "who played what" on In Concert 1973, I've got a question about the masterpiece version of "Let The Wind Blow"?  
Who played the Grand Piano?  Who played the killer Lead Guitar solo in the middle?
And who may have been playing the Hammond Organ with that great Leslie Cabinet "whir" that can be hauntingly heard underneath?
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrjMXrf6C7Y          CD
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0WshQmpH68    Vinyl

Big Bri

No kidding...I think Carl MAY be on electric piano for that one...and I think there's also Clavinet (masquareding as harpsichord) on there...that's possibly Dennis (he can be seen playing the Clav on the '74 DVD during "The Trader"...the second time, toward the end).  I'm pretty sure Carli Munoz is playing the electric piano on the '73 "Caroline No".   The bluesy guitar solo on "LTWB" is Blondie (I've got a tape where Mike namechecks him at the end of the song for lead guitar). 

[c-man]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRbBPhodF4Q

This video of Wild Honey from London shows Carl on electric piano, Blondie on guitar and Ed Carter on bass until the last few seconds where Ed Carter is playing the guitar solo.

What happened to Ed Carter when JWG became the bass player - did he just become the third guiterist or did he leave the band for a while?

The liner notes to the album list the supporting mucisians as Ed Carter, Billy Hinsche, Robert Kenyatta, Mike Kowalski and Carli Munoz.  No instruments are listed but I would guess that they were as follows:

Ed Carter - bass and guitar (3rd Guitar when Carl played keys)
Billy Hinsche - piano, guitar and bass (3rd guitar when Carl played keys or bass when Ed played 3rd guitar)
Robert Kenyatta - percussion
Mike Kowalski - drums and percussion (Drums when Rickey played guitar or pedal steel)
Carli Munoz - Keyboards

I always found it interesting that they never included a vibraphone in their stage show especially since it was a key element of so many of their songs.

I think the last few seconds of the live "WH" that show Eddie on lead guitar is footage "flown in " from another part of that show...man, it'd be great to have that entire show on video!  I think you're pretty much right on with your credits above, except I don't think Billy was playing bass at that point (he WAS the primary bass player on an entire tour, in August '72).  Remember, Blondie was still playing quite a bit of bass at that point. 

And...whaddya mean, "no vibraphone"??  Can't you hear it on "Wouldn't It Be Nice" and "Don't Worry Baby"?  They definitley had a set of vibes onstage in '72 and maybe '73 (and glockenspiel in '71/'72).   

[The infamous Baldwin Organ]

I always found it interesting that they never included a vibraphone in their stage show especially since it was a key element of so many of their songs.

Those were pre-digital days! I wouldn't want to be the guy hauling a vibraphone from stage to stage! 

Would it be any more difficult to haul around than a piano?

Most touring groups don't actually bring their own personal piano on tour; instead a piano is either provided by the venue or rented. It's possible that the Beach Boys toured with their own piano, but as far I know, most groups don't generally do that. Either way, I don't know whether the band traveled with pianos or vibraphones, but I still wouldn't want to be the guy with that job!