GTO live 1989

[tpesky]

Ya know, I'm no Brianista and have never been a Blue Board fan for sure. I appreciate Mike, see his shows, believe his voice was absoutely essential to the sound and can't imagine anyone else singing many of his songs. That said, it is getting to the point where it is impossible to talk objectively or even criticize Mike Love on this board at all. It's like a bizarro Blue Board and not in a good way.

[Matt H]

I don't think that was Carl's choice to have the dancers there, that was the show he was appearing on. They were not his employees and it's pretty tough to tell from that clip exactly what his thoughts are regarding them.

I agree, isn't that Solid Gold?  I am pretty sure that they almost always had dancers in the background if the song was uptempo.  I seem to remember a video from Solid Gold where the Beach Boys performed California Dreamin with Brian there on bass, and there were dancers around for that too.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Ya know, I'm no Brianista and have never been a Blue Board fan for sure. I appreciate Mike, see his shows, believe his voice was absoutely essential to the sound and can't imagine anyone else singing many of his songs. That said, it is getting to the point where it is impossible to talk objectively or even criticize Mike Love on this board at all. It's like a bizarro Blue Board and not in a good way.

Fair enough, tpesky; your point is well taken. I think the problem is, if it is a problem, is that people are SINGLING OUT Mike for these things that ocurred in the BAND. And I'll repeat the word BAND, meaning a group of guys.

Yes, in the early days, Brian was able to make decisions, musical decisions for the group. He did have that power. However, I'm not ready to concede that Mike had that same power in the ensuing years. All I ever read about is that Mike wasn't a Wilson, he couldn't play an instrument, he couldn't write music, he wasn't an artist, and, he couldn't even SING! Then why would this incompetent guy be able to make so many decisions - on his own - for the group? You'd think he'd be the last guy to have any power.

I have stated a lot lately on this board (and others) that I don't believe Mike alone was responsible for these decisions. Were these Mike's ideas? Maybe. Did he push for them? Probably. Was he a pain in the ass along the way? Maybe. But it's one thing to come up with ideas and another thing to get them implemented, especially in a major rock and roll band with some brilliant musicians, songwriters, and personalities. Basically, he could not have pulled off these things - setlists, final tracklists for albums, the basic musical direction of the band, and cheerleaders - WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF THE REST OF THE GUYS. Now, of course, people will say that the other guys didn't care, didn't want to stand up for what they believed, or didn't even show up at all for the meeting. Then, don't blame Mike! Blame the rest of the band. Why is the approach to single out Mike? Single out Dennis or Carl or, God forbid, Brian. But, no, it's easier to make excuses for them. So, the blame falls entirely on Mike.

Well, after so many years, I think there is a backlash starting. Some of the old, prevailing theories don't make sense. Message boards like this welcome ALL opinions and a search for the real facts. It used to be up to a few authors or a few books to write the history, or state the facts. Not anymore.

[oldsurferdude]

Ya know, I'm no Brianista and have never been a Blue Board fan for sure. I appreciate Mike, see his shows, believe his voice was absoutely essential to the sound and can't imagine anyone else singing many of his songs. That said, it is getting to the point where it is impossible to talk objectively or even criticize Mike Love on this board at all. It's like a bizarro Blue Board and not in a good way.

Fair enough, tpesky; your point is well taken. I think the problem is, if it is a problem, is that people are SINGLING OUT Mike for these things that ocurred in the BAND. And I'll repeat the word BAND, meaning a group of guys.

Yes, in the early days, Brian was able to make decisions, musical decisions for the group. He did have that power. However, I'm not ready to concede that Mike had that same power in the ensuing years. All I ever read about is that Mike wasn't a Wilson, he couldn't play an instrument, he couldn't write music, he wasn't an artist, and, he couldn't even SING! Then why would this incompetent guy be able to make so many decisions - on his own - for the group? You'd think he'd be the last guy to have any power.

I have stated a lot lately on this board (and others) that I don't believe Mike alone was responsible for these decisions. Were these Mike's ideas? Maybe. Did he push for them? Probably. Was he a pain in the ass along the way? Maybe. But it's one thing to come up with ideas and another thing to get them implemented, especially in a major rock and roll band with some brilliant musicians, songwriters, and personalities. Basically, he could not have pulled off these things - setlists, final tracklists for albums, the basic musical direction of the band, and cheerleaders - WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF THE REST OF THE GUYS. Now, of course, people will say that the other guys didn't care, didn't want to stand up for what they believed, or didn't even show up at all for the meeting. Then, don't blame Mike! Blame the rest of the band. Why is the approach to single out Mike? Single out Dennis or Carl or, God forbid, Brian. But, no, it's easier to make excuses for them. So, the blame falls entirely on Mike.

Well, after so many years, I think there is a backlash starting. Some of the old, prevailing theories don't make sense. Message boards like this welcome ALL opinions and a search for the real facts. It used to be up to a few authors or a few books to write the history, or state the facts. Not anymore.

SJS has crowned himself Chief Advocate in charge of  the job of defending anything Mike Love. I say Here Here!! Some poor fool has to do it, right? And let us not demean that job for it is a full time life of sheer drudgery with no 15 minute breaks or even a vacation! The hours are long and hard-all in all its a dead end position. But all in all, our guy is a "compaany" guy who abides by the rigid company policy which he will defend at any cost! I say to him, why not prepare a sort of resume based on his posts on this and other boards and send it off to Mike Love's people asking for a position as some sort of "groom" for ever so talented one. His job description could include the following chores:
   1. Scan all message boards for ANY perfidious comments hurled at his highness or his band.  2. Act as a human shield to thwart any fan who just may throw his shoes at Mr. Frontman at concerts. 3. Polish his rings and be sure that all hats are clean, sanitized boxed and properly shaped.4 Sandals should be shredded after each use and tennis shoes should not become intermingled with Bruce's. Roll out red carpet for anywhere the Lovester may go whether it be the toilet, McDonalds, walking out on stage-alwars have a voluminous supply of rose petals for him to walk on as well.5. Instead of palm trees, have a pond on stage and help Mike to the shore as we all watch him walk on water.    

[Cam Mott]

Let's not kill the messengers, Brothers of the BBs.

[Nicko]

I think SJS talks a lot of sense there. Obviously Mike deserves criticism for the cheerleaders debacle but the other group members obviously agreed to go along with it and that goes for every other direction that the band went in.

[MBE]

Mike made some bad moves he is not above reporoach but condsider this. If you go along with something you know is bad isn't that worse then doing something dumb you believe in.

[Jay]

I think SJS talks a lot of sense there. Obviously Mike deserves criticism for the cheerleaders debacle but the other group members obviously agreed to go along with it and that goes for every other direction that the band went in.

I could be wrong, but doesn't Peter Carlin's book basically say that Mike was pretty much the leader from the mid 1990's on? I think Al was out-voted on everything, and didn't Carl essentially give up his voting right at around the SIP period?

[Nicko]

I think SJS talks a lot of sense there. Obviously Mike deserves criticism for the cheerleaders debacle but the other group members obviously agreed to go along with it and that goes for every other direction that the band went in.

I could be wrong, but doesn't Peter Carlin's book basically say that Mike was pretty much the leader from the mid 1990's on? I think Al was out-voted on everything, and didn't Carl essentially give up his voting right at around the SIP period?

I think it's pretty clear that Mike was the leader but if Carl did give up his vote then that would be strange. The cheerleader shenanigans occurred a few years before SIP anyway so Mike clearly could have been outvoted at that point.