Tony Asher, Asher Tony

[nobody]

Tony seems like a good guy. But I always get the impression that he's waiting for more respekt for his work with Brian on Pet Sounds. Maybe I'm misreading him. What do you think? I think his lyrics are perfectly suited for Brian's songs and who knows what small but significant suggestions he made on the actual composition of the music. I see the question raised a lot of whether Mike couldn't've done just as good a job on those songs. I think he could've, easily, but it's beside the point. Brian needed to develop a trusting relationship with an outsider. Not to forget simply a fresh face, a new mind, and a new friend. Who knows whether he could've opened up as well with Mike and connected in such a way as to have Mike accurately channel his emotions into words.

What happened to Brian and Tony? Did they remain friends or only rekindle their friendship decades later? Was Tony of the same crowd that Brian would be hanging with in 1967? How much money do you think Tony has made from Pet Sounds? I think Tony's lyrics to Good Vibrations stink, which casts a momentary doubt on his lyrics for Pet Sounds - could Mike have brought a whole new style to them? Nah, different sort of music. Tony was a great medium for Brian's inner emo kid.

[GLarson432]

I have no reason to not trust Marilyn's opinion on about anything Brian related.  She has always seemed to be very honest and open.  Yet, she didn't like Tony Asher, to say the least, reportedly.

It makes me wonder what was the true story of what went on in early 1966.  If she really disliked/hated the guy there must be a reason.

I'm just throwing that out there.  Any thoughts or opinions are appreciated.

[Andrew G. Doe]

What happened to Brian and Tony? Did they remain friends or only rekindle their friendship decades later? Was Tony of the same crowd that Brian would be hanging with in 1967? How much money do you think Tony has made from Pet Sounds? I think Tony's lyrics to Good Vibrations stink, which casts a momentary doubt on his lyrics for Pet Sounds - could Mike have brought a whole new style to them? Nah, different sort of music. Tony was a great medium for Brian's inner emo kid.

Tony was engaged by Brian to do a job, and when that job was done, that was it. Tony ran in far different circles to Brian's other new friends of the time. Tony, due to the terms offered him by Murry, made far less than most people would imagine.

As for his "GV" lyrics, one vital point is usually ignored - they were unpolished scratch/dummy lyrics, never intended for public consumption. Suppose Macca went ahead and released "Scrambled eggs/oh my darling you've got lovely legs"...

[mikeyj]

As for his "GV" lyrics, one vital point is usually ignored - they were unpolished scratch/dummy lyrics, never intended for public consumption. Suppose Macca went ahead and released "Scrambled eggs/oh my darling you've got lovely legs"...

Weren't those "Scrambled Eggs" lyrics false anyway? I know that's besides the point, but just saying.

[Wirestone]

Yes, I recall some breakdowns on the PS credits -- Tony got something like 30 percent of royalties for some songs. The justification was that Brian wrote some words too, so he was entitled to more than 50 percent.

[nobody]

I have no reason to not trust Marilyn's opinion on about anything Brian related.  She has always seemed to be very honest and open.  Yet, she didn't like Tony Asher, to say the least, reportedly.

It makes me wonder what was the true story of what went on in early 1966.  If she really disliked/hated the guy there must be a reason.

I'm just throwing that out there.  Any thoughts or opinions are appreciated.

Indeed, Marilyn has always seemed a very trustworthy source on Brian's life as she interpreted and experienced it (important and necessary distinction since they were married for a long time and she'd been there practically from the beginning). I think I remember reading somewhere (I haven't read many BBoys books and one of the main ones was the Gaines book so ... beware...) that she thought Tony was of a bad crowd. That sort of thing. An unnecessarily bad influence of Brian. But, again, they were married. Perhaps she wanted Brian's friends to be people she would want to be friends with - obviously, they did not meet eye to eye on this issue. I also read that Tony and Brian smoked marijuana together, so perhaps she thought he was going to encourage Brian in that regard (considering that the first time Brian smoked Marilyn was enormously upset, so I've read).

Tony was engaged by Brian to do a job, and when that job was done, that was it. Tony ran in far different circles to Brian's other new friends of the time. Tony, due to the terms offered him by Murry, made far less than most people would imagine.

As for his "GV" lyrics, one vital point is usually ignored - they were unpolished scratch/dummy lyrics, never intended for public consumption. Suppose Macca went ahead and released "Scrambled eggs/oh my darling you've got lovely legs"...

Thanks A, good point about the lyrics. I hadn't considered that. I've always wondered whether Brian catches his audience off-guard when they play the song with Tony's lyrics. So many people caught in that embarrassing "I got the words wrong" moment. Haha!

[Andrew G. Doe]

As for his "GV" lyrics, one vital point is usually ignored - they were unpolished scratch/dummy lyrics, never intended for public consumption. Suppose Macca went ahead and released "Scrambled eggs/oh my darling you've got lovely legs"...

Weren't those "Scrambled Eggs" lyrics false anyway? I know that's besides the point, but just saying.

I've heard Macca sing them in some interview or other.

[Nicko1234]

I think his lyrics are excellent on the album, although no more excellent than the words to several earlier songs like Warmth of the Sun, PLease Let Me Wonder, Let Him Run World etc. What sort of a career did Asher have after Pet Sounds?

[harveyw]

I have no reason to not trust Marilyn's opinion on about anything Brian related.  She has always seemed to be very honest and open.  Yet, she didn't like Tony Asher, to say the least, reportedly.
It makes me wonder what was the true story of what went on in early 1966.  If she really disliked/hated the guy there must be a reason.

I've not heard anything about Marilyn's opinion on Tony. Actually, I probably have but have subsequently forgotten it. Tony has always struck me as quite a straight, small-c conservative kinda guy (he had a background in advertising, am I right?); just the type of collaborator Brian needed to keep him on an even keel. I'd have thought Marilyn would have appreciated a level-headed fellow like Tony being around to help keep Brian rooted in reality. Or maybe that's not what she wanted?

What sort of a career did Asher have after Pet Sounds?

Good question. I know he collaborated with the great Roger Nichols on a few songs for the Small Circle Of Friends project (that LP's "Love So Fine" being the equal of much of Pet Sounds IMHO). But I'm not aware of any further published/recorded songs until his reunion with Brian in the late-90s. Is anyone else? I assume he simply returned to ad-land.

[Chris Brown]

As for his "GV" lyrics, one vital point is usually ignored - they were unpolished scratch/dummy lyrics, never intended for public consumption. Suppose Macca went ahead and released "Scrambled eggs/oh my darling you've got lovely legs"...

Weren't those "Scrambled Eggs" lyrics false anyway? I know that's besides the point, but just saying.

I've heard Macca sing them in some interview or other.

Yep, those were indeed the dummy lyrics he used before he wrote the real ones.  He talks about it in his autobiography, "Many Years From Now." 

You're right, Andrew, that point about Tony's GV lyrics is often ignored.  I do think Mike's are better, and especially impressive because he supposedly wrote them in his car on the way to the studio. 

That being said, I'm not sure Mike could have written better lyrics for Pet Sounds.  I don't think he would have been able to stomach writing lyrics for a whole album of melancholy Brian songs.  He wrote some great introspective songs with Brian before, of course, but on each of those albums, there were upbeat "fun" songs that provided a counterbalance.  This obviously wasn't the case on Pet Sounds, and I think Mike would have pushed for some more upbeat material had he been the lyricist instead of Tony.

[runnersdialzero]

As for his "GV" lyrics, one vital point is usually ignored - they were unpolished scratch/dummy lyrics, never intended for public consumption. Suppose Macca went ahead and released "Scrambled eggs/oh my darling you've got lovely legs"...

Obviously they were just a working version, but one would assume several of those lines would have made the final version had they used Tony's lyrics, right?

I'm still wondering what the original first line was supposed to be.

As for Mike's lyrics - they're not bad, but sort of dated and a little cheesy, and not in a good way. Such is Mike Love, though.

[Andrew G. Doe]

As for his "GV" lyrics, one vital point is usually ignored - they were unpolished scratch/dummy lyrics, never intended for public consumption. Suppose Macca went ahead and released "Scrambled eggs/oh my darling you've got lovely legs"...

Obviously they were just a working version, but one would assume several of those lines would have made the final version had they used Tony's lyrics, right?

Why ? 

[runnersdialzero]

As for his "GV" lyrics, one vital point is usually ignored - they were unpolished scratch/dummy lyrics, never intended for public consumption. Suppose Macca went ahead and released "Scrambled eggs/oh my darling you've got lovely legs"...

Obviously they were just a working version, but one would assume several of those lines would have made the final version had they used Tony's lyrics, right?

Why ?  

Ehhh you'd just think so. Then again, maybe not, though.

Were they, in fact, considered just scratch lyrics with the intent of being rewritten later? I honestly don't know.

[Aegir]

As for Mike's lyrics - they're not bad, but sort of dated and a little cheesy, and not in a good way. Such is Mike Love, though.

What's so dated about them? Other than the heteronormativity?

[runnersdialzero]

As for Mike's lyrics - they're not bad, but sort of dated and a little cheesy, and not in a good way. Such is Mike Love, though.

What's so dated about them? Other than the heteronormativity?

Lines like "She goes with me to a blossom world" etc. just sound very much like lines out of a 60s pop song. They haven't aged extremely well.

They're not TOO dated, mind you, but enough so that it's noticeable.

[nobody]

As for Mike's lyrics - they're not bad, but sort of dated and a little cheesy, and not in a good way. Such is Mike Love, though.

What's so dated about them? Other than the heteronormativity?

Lines like "She goes with me to a blossom world" etc. just sound very much like lines out of a 60s pop song. They haven't aged extremely well.

They're not TOO dated, mind you, but enough so that it's noticeable.

i think that particular line is GREAT, i've always loved it. "dated" only has much significance when the particular period whatever it is has come from is dead to public consciousness or times have changed so much that it has become irrelevant. i don't think that sort of 60s sunny flowery perhaps psychedelic lyric has died yet, it's more like we took a dip below it and need to rise back to it. the lyrics to GV are more timeless than, say, "the rain, the park, and other things" (track too) by the cowsills, which i would agree is dated, despite the obvious GV inspiration and influence

[Andrew G. Doe]

As for his "GV" lyrics, one vital point is usually ignored - they were unpolished scratch/dummy lyrics, never intended for public consumption. Suppose Macca went ahead and released "Scrambled eggs/oh my darling you've got lovely legs"...

Obviously they were just a working version, but one would assume several of those lines would have made the final version had they used Tony's lyrics, right?

Why ?  

Ehhh you'd just think so. Then again, maybe not, though.

Were they, in fact, considered just scratch lyrics with the intent of being rewritten later? I honestly don't know.

Tony told me they were just 'a placeholder'.