BW Band Politics

[the captain]

Occasionally here and on other sites, members of Brian's band are implicated in what strike me as eerily similar to the Beach Boys' political workings. Foskett is treated like a new Mike Love-oldies character; Sahanaja is given the Wilson-progressive role. Or there is (or was, pre-Lizik/Hines' departures) the L.A. "real BW fans" v Chicago "hired musicians" talk. But it strikes me that while obviously any thinking human being has his or her own opinions and preferences (and so Member A may wish Brian did X while Member B would prefer Y), none of these musicians has anywhere near the clout required to force things one way or the other anyway: they aren't Beach Boys partners, they're hired backing musicians.

My question for anyone who knows more than I do about the workings of the group: is any such chatter just a way to fill message board space? Or are there actually meaningful factions within the band?

Semi-related in a roundabout way: is Foskett still on good terms with the Beach Boys? If I'm not mistaken, he left about eight years before joining BW to pursue his solo career. Was he let go, or did he leave of his own volition?   

(I guess I ask because I hypothesize nobody outside of the original, decades old family battles [counting the non-family members like Jardine as family by this time due to familiarity] gives a damn about any of it, and are happy to play good music with good musicians. But acknowledging that people are often greedy and selfish f*ckers, there is always room for the hypothesis to be proven wrong. Let's consider this thread scientific method, only with lots of major sevenths and inversions.)

[Wirestone]

Luther: I think a lot of it is simply chatter. Foskett and the BBs have a complicated history -- there have been conflicting accounts about his departure. He has one story, others have another. (There was talk of an affair in there at one point.) Given his comments about "Kokomo" that you can read on the current thread, it seems he's not a big fan of that tune and its associations.

[the captain]

I'd say you could be a non-fan of Kokomo and still be on good terms with the Beach Boys organization, but I suppose considering the current leadership, that would be impossible. 

[Wirestone]

I also have to say, while there has been talk nearly from the beginning of Melinda meddling in band affairs, I've never gotten much of an impression that anyone in the group can't stand anyone else. Darian has gone out of his way to praise Foskett, saying that the two of them are simply good at different things (Foskett being a crowd cheerleader, etc.) and that they work together well. I think Darian is considered the offstage music director and Foskett the onstage music director, if that makes any sense.

[Andrew G. Doe]

My question for anyone who knows more than I do about the workings of the group: is any such chatter just a way to fill message board space? Or are there actually meaningful factions within the band?

Yes.

Semi-related in a roundabout way: is Foskett still on good terms with the Beach Boys? If I'm not mistaken, he left about eight years before joining BW to pursue his solo career. Was he let go, or did he leave of his own volition?

Jeff joined the BB in very late 1981 - his first gig was in Sun City, South Africa, Christmas Eve - and departed almost exactly ten years later. I'm not privvy to the complete ins-and-outs of it, but I gather he left of his own volition. Others will tell you he jumped before he was going to be pushed.

As for being still on good terms with Mike and/or Bruce... don't recall seeing anything about that one way or another.

[the captain]

My question for anyone who knows more than I do about the workings of the group: is any such chatter just a way to fill message board space? Or are there actually meaningful factions within the band?

Yes.

Thanks. But I'm guessing you don't plan to elaborate on that.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

There are factions in *every* band, really.

I also wouldn't use the "  L.A. 'real BW fans' v Chicago 'hired musicians' "  line...Scott Bennett was a hired hand for Imagination, but he is Brian's main man right now, arguably more than Darian at this point., considering the fact that he has been writing with Brian.

[the captain]

Absolutely there are factions in every band. That's why I used the term "meaningful" and related the idea to the Beach Boys. Because not all factional disputes are created equal (and in a band of hired sidemusicians, factions can be much less important).

I wouldn't use the LA/Chicago thing, either. I was noting that I've read it here and elsewhere.

[Wirestone]

So there are meaningful factions -- but does that result in meaningful conflict?

That seems like a harder question to answer, given everyone's work-for-hire status. The band has generally presented a remarkably unified front -- which I'm sure is what Brian prefers.

For what it's worth, I've assumed the Scott-Brian collabs probably rubbed some the wrong way -- here's a relatively minor band member essentially becoming the co-pilot on a new BW record. A lot of people in the band (Darian and Foskett, to name two) were capable of filling that role -- but didn't. I wonder how they felt about that.

[MBE]

Jeff said in an interview that he had an affair and that the Beach Boys canned him for it. Seems hypocritical to me but...

[the captain]

I wonder how they felt about that.

So do I. (Hence the fishing!)

Regarding your "meaningful conflict/factions" line, all conflict is meaningful to those in the conflict. And real people's feelings would of course be hurt by X or Y.

But from a group politics angle, the banding together of members against others might mean more if they are empowered in some way from it. My whole line of thinking on this (or part of it, anyway) is whether such a thing matters in this band, since even if four or five banded together, they're not going to get to control the group: Brian and his wife and manager(s) are.

[Wirestone]

Well, Darian did manage to help oust Joe Thomas, but that was a different era.

[the captain]

Has he been knighted for that, by the way? He should have been.

[TdHabib]

The Wondermints mentioned in an interview in 1999 that they really weren't interested in collaborating with Brian because he didn't want to be seen as a leech-type-character, someone taking advantage of a good situation. I think the reason Scott did is because Brian asked him of his own volition, he didn't push himself on Brian.

[Chris Brown]

Has he been knighted for that, by the way? He should have been.

Amen to that.

[SG7]

Has he been knighted for that, by the way? He should have been.

Amen to that.

Yes,  especially after the "let's make Caroline, No sound like a Sade" thing. Bleh.

[Andrew G. Doe]

My question for anyone who knows more than I do about the workings of the group: is any such chatter just a way to fill message board space? Or are there actually meaningful factions within the band?

Yes.

Thanks. But I'm guessing you don't plan to elaborate on that.

Don't need to - we're all BB/BW hard-core here, we know where the lines in the sand have been drawn.

Oh, and remember, Darian & Scotty worked together on sequencing TLOS during summer 2007. No conflict there.

[c-man]

Regarding Foskett's relationship with the Boys after his departure, he sang with Mike (and Bruce?) and Stamos, etc. at a Mike Meros memorial get-together.  So they've at least had that interaction since he left.

[Outie 315]

  Check out the MikeY  Meros party @ The Borderline.

  IGotAround.Com

[Sheriff John Stone]

I think there were a lot of politics in The Beach Boys because, and I know it's cliche, they were family. That threw a different dynamic into it; you could fight like hell, but, you knew, in the end it was your brother or cousin and you were gonna make up. Which leads to another reason there were more politics - because you could. The guys knew WHO THEY WERE, and that each member was necessary, in their own individual way. They needed Mike, they needed Carl, they needed Dennis - for what they brought to the table, for what they brought to The Beach Boys image. The guys probably knew that they could fight like cats and dogs, and, they weren't going to be dismissed (not counting drug/alcohol reasons).

Brian's band has different "rules". I would imagine that if you rock the boat, or cross Brian, you're gone. The Beach Boys didn't have a Melinda (unless you consider Murry filling that role); somebody who was looking out for the personal welfare of Brian. I always felt that Brian's band, particularly Darian and Jeff, were such "students of The Beach Boys", and weren't going to make the same mistakes. They saw what worked and didn't work. Besides being brilliant musicians, they're smart. They have made very few mistakes. Also, they, and the other band members are clean (I think). One can not ignore the effects of drugs and alcohol on band relationships and politics. I believe most of the Beach Boys' 70's problems can be directly attributed to that. Brian's band has avoided this.

[Andrew G. Doe]

My impression is that, of late, management decisions have caused rifts in Brian's band. Could be wrong, of course...

[The Heartical Don]

Has he been knighted for that, by the way? He should have been.

Amen to that.

Yes,  especially after the "let's make Caroline, No sound like a Sade" thing. Bleh.

This is by far the strangest and most repulsive thing I read her since, oh, yesterday...

[punkinhead]

What evidence do we have that Jeff is a bad guy? (since joining BW camp)

[Outie 315]

 Loose Lips Sink Ships!

 Ask Jeff.....

[SG7]

I don't feel Jeff is a bad guy. There is just two different sets of thinking when it comes to doing anything. There has been compromises, some maybe not for the better, but it could be worse!!