Vegetable Arguments-Really freaked out, or another great put-on?

[A Million Units In Jan!]

While the Vegetable Arguments are mostly sophmoric in humor (although you have to admit, Hal Blaine is a show stealer here. He does some really funny stuff), I still enjoy them because Brian seems to be in such a great mood, and having a great time.
However, I've wondered about the middle section, when they start talking about the Leonid Meteor Shower. At one point Brian seems to slightly freak out when he realizes what direction they will be able to see it-he claims his dogs were pointed firmly in that direction earlier, as if they knew something was up. I used to think that this was one of Brian's SMiLE-Era wig outs caught on tape, but as of late I kind of think that it's another Brian put-on at the expense of the others in the studio. I imagine him playing the tape back later and laughing his ass off, although nobody else actually seems to really react to what he was saying.

[The Heartical Don]

I think the put-on theory is tenable. IMHO Brian's sense of humor is very strange, I can even easily imagine that 60% of all his jokes were poorly or mis-understood. Not that his fun was childish, it was different, and he could find a laugh in things in a way that most of us would not see.

[Bicyclerider]

I've always thought Brian must have meant for some edited version of the Arguments to appear in Vegetables - either at the beginning (like TM song), or in the middle somewhere . . . wouldn't make much sense to have the arguments after the track I guess.  Although it might have made sense in an Elements suite.  On second thouight, with the recording date of the arguments closer to the cornucopia version rather than the April 67 version, the arguments might have gone over the piano outro of that track, which continues on for a minute or so after the lyric vocals finish.  Hmmm . . .

[A Million Units In Jan!]

I think the put-on theory is tenable. IMHO Brian's sense of humor is very strange, I can even easily imagine that 60% of all his jokes were poorly or mis-understood. Not that his fun was childish, it was different, and he could find a laugh in things in a way that most of us would not see.

There's something about the way he's asking questions that seems sort of like a put-on-'What, what do you mean, what's happening tonight? Oh, there's gonna be fireworks. Tonight. It's going to be visual then?'

[The Heartical Don]

I think the put-on theory is tenable. IMHO Brian's sense of humor is very strange, I can even easily imagine that 60% of all his jokes were poorly or mis-understood. Not that his fun was childish, it was different, and he could find a laugh in things in a way that most of us would not see.

There's something about the way he's asking questions that seems sort of like a put-on-'What, what do you mean, what's happening tonight? Oh, there's gonna be fireworks. Tonight. It's going to be visual then?'

Yeah... at the London 2002 performance of 'Pet Sounds', at the RFH, I saw him introducing 'Let's Go Away For Awhile'. He said: 'now we're going to do an instrumental. That is a song without words'.

Another great one: in an interview (I forgot which one, although I have it at home somewhere), he's being asked questions in his living room. Then, Melinda comes down the stairs. Brian halts the Q&A, and greets his (then new) wife with: 'Hey honey, you look amazing! It's wonderful what make-up can do!'

(I just love that last one. When he's really feeling at ease, safe, he can be a great guy to be with. Like a funny bar-buddy, although an extraordinarily gifted one, mind.)

[Sheriff John Stone]

I've always thought Brian must have meant for some edited version of the Arguments to appear in Vegetables - either at the beginning (like TM song), or in the middle somewhere . . . wouldn't make much sense to have the arguments after the track I guess.  Although it might have made sense in an Elements suite.  On second thouight, with the recording date of the arguments closer to the cornucopia version rather than the April 67 version, the arguments might have gone over the piano outro of that track, which continues on for a minute or so after the lyric vocals finish.  Hmmm . . .

On Hawthorne, it has the "Vegetables" promo/argument followed by the song, but, I was fooling around with it for my SMiLE mix and came up with this: Try the boxed set "Vegetables", and, just as it's fading out, with about 10-12 seconds left, start fading out "Vegetables" and fade in "the argument" from Hawthorne. It works nicely, I think...

[sockittome]

I've never heard anything of the "argument" other than what was used for the Promo on Hawthorne.  How long does it go on?

[Winston Wrong]

I've never heard anything of the "argument" other than what was used for the Promo on Hawthorne.  How long does it go on?

22:43!!

[A Million Units In Jan!]

I've never heard anything of the "argument" other than what was used for the Promo on Hawthorne.  How long does it go on?

It's really a series of arguments that Brian tries to direct. For the most part, it's trying to direct an argument between Hal Blaine and Mike Vosse, with Hal playing the part of a home owner who is trying to keep people form being on his property and planting gardens. Brian directs this stuff the same way he directs a vocal session-do it over and over and over and over. 'No, you aren't really mad, just kind of put off. No, that was beautiful, but it wasn't perfect. Let's try it again! It has to be perfect! Hal, you don't want to be mean, you sound really like a prick! You don't want to be, you aren't really mad you know, just kind of , put off'. Twenty two minutes of that stuff, with about 5-10 minutes of anything really worth listening to.

[GLarson432]

"Twenty two minutes of that stuff, with about 5-10 minutes of anything really worth listening to."

Once you get the the second, and beyond, listen...closer to 5.  And it gets shorter with time.  Something along the lines on the Banana & Louie sessions but with a human element.

[Loaf]

And people wonder why Mike objected to Smile when he came back from tour... if the die-hards can't take 22:43 of vegetable arguments, how about a 4-hour studio session?

Personally, I think the arguments weren't intended for the Smile album, but perhaps a radio ad for the album or a Vegetables single.

I quite like the vegetable arguments, but I REALLY LOVE the vocal veggie-riffs Brian comes up with Van Dyke and the others. "Where's my beets. And my carrots' etc...Who are the others, btw? Michael Vosse? Jules Siegel? Bob Someone?

[A Million Units In Jan!]

"Twenty two minutes of that stuff, with about 5-10 minutes of anything really worth listening to."

Once you get the the second, and beyond, listen...closer to 5.  And it gets shorter with time.  Something along the lines on the Banana & Louie sessions but with a human element.

Well, actually I was trying to be generous by saying 5-10. It's probably closer to about 2 minutes worth 

[hypehat]

it's really worth it for Brian saying ' that sounds like a really heavy Vegetable farm' 

[sockittome]

Personally, I think the arguments weren't intended for the Smile album

Neither was George Fell Into His French Horn.   During this time Brian talked about producing a comedy album.

There's a lot of off-the-wall stuff from this period.

[Rocky]

it would behandy to have an astronomy buff on the board that would happen to know the event they were discussing if it is indeed true.

[Thunderfingers75]

"There are tomatos all over my gate!". If you havent heard the Alternate Brian Wilson version of Smile, look for it. He incorporates some of the argument into his mix, its my favorite fan mix that I have heard.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

it would behandy to have an astronomy buff on the board that would happen to know the event they were discussing if it is indeed true.

They're talking about the Leonid Meteor Shower.

It's also odd that Brian finds the subject of 'fungus' somewhat taboo.

[RadiantRadish]

The 1966 Leonid shower is quite famous. It was one of the best displays ever. More than a shower, it was a "storm". Here is one account of many I found online:

Subject: The Perfect Storm

I was sound asleep when I was awakened by someone shaking me and telling me
to get up quick.  It was my mother and she seemed to be very excited about
something , not telling me at that moment what it was,  only  asking me to
hurry up and come outside with her.  I had no idea that what I was about to
see would burn a picture in my mind that would be with me to this day.
There in the sky was the most incredible vision I have ever witnessed.  It
was if every star was falling from this north Texas sky, arcing the earth's
dome of atmosphere in every direction. I watched with my mouth wide open for
30 to 45 minutes and the show never seemed to slow up!   It almost brings
tears to my eyes when I stop and really think of how incredible that morning
really was...

That's from http://leonid.arc.nasa.gov/1966.html

Here's a pic:



Some people even claimed that they heard sizzling and crackling sounds:

The sky appeared to be
cracking and sizzling with shooting stars. To this day I have the
distinct memory of hearing a faint sound like silk rustling from a
distance as dozens of meteors appeared each second. After several
minutes, I saw another fireball and then, yet another. I remember being
astounded that a meteor could leave a trail in the sky. Then a bright
meteor split looking like the track of smashed particle. I remember
thinking after one particularly intense burst that the "duck and cover"
might be a good response as surely something had to reach the ground. I
saw several fireballs after that with the same incandescent trails.

I wonder if Brian and the others stayed up see it. I think it would have affected Brian deeply.

[Fun Is In]

The Leonid Meteor Shower is a predictable annual event as is the Perseid Meteor Shower.
Happens every year, lasts more than a few days, varies in the number of meteors seen per hour.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_shower

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_shower#Perseid_and_Leonid_meteor_showers   puts the date for the Leonids as around 17 November every year.

In a well-lit city like LA I don't imagine that many of the meteors would be visible due to light pollution unless it was one of the really big shower years. I live in a city with far better air quality and far fewer people than 1960s LA and I only see a few going by on a good night during the shower unless I get out of town.

I suspect that Brian's "Mind Gangsters" (as referred to in GbSHG) were directing some of these comedy sessions and other oddball adventures and perceptions of the time.

[Mr. Cohen]

Yeah, I could see Brian making that connection in his head (the dog and the meteor shower), but knowing it was kind of crazy and not really serious, hence playing it off it a funny/odd manner. I have a similar sense of humor.

[Bill Tobelman]

The meteor shower connected the connected Brian & SMiLE & vegetables & his pals to the universe. It's all very obvious. If we all are the result of the Big Bang then we're all related & interconnected.

[Ganz Allein]

I think Brian was serious about there being a link between the upcoming meteor shower and Banana & Louie being lined up in the same direction.  It's not just the tone in his voice; back then he was into numerology, astrology, Subud, the I Ching, chemical enlightenment, etc.  So it goes to figure he might see some synchronicity/animal intuitiveness going on there.

[?]

So it goes to figure he might see some synchronicity/animal intuitiveness going on there.

Maybe I'm crazy, but it doesn't seem out of the question to me that his observation was correct.  Animals can pick up on a lot of things people can't.  They might have been aware something was about to happen.

Coincidentally, I saw the brightest shooting star I've ever seen during the long drive home from the TLOS show this past November.  It happened when I was on a particularly dark stretch of the interstate and since it was very late no other cars were around.  Very impressive!  From reading this thread I've learned it was part of last year's Leonid shower.  Kind of neat.