Surfs Up (Live)

[phirnis]

They should have played Yoga Is As Yoga Does right after the poem.

[c-man]

I like that set  list myself...but I will say that having collected reviews (if they exist) for almost every show that we list on Bellagio from that period-the BBs encountered hostility often.  One glaring example-The BBs played a show at the University of Virginia with the Byrds in 1971.  The audience was extremely hostile-refused to listen to the new songs- the band engaged in hostile banter with them-which is in the review..Audience came alive when the oldies were played at the end. This was quite common at shows in 1971-73.  I have a lot of reviews that describe disgruntled (and drunk) college audiences showing a lack of patience with "Lookin at Tomorrow" and other album cuts..  To the BB's credit they really resisted the "oldies act" tag for many years

Despite this they somehow managed to get things back on track during that time. Some may have resisted the Beach Boys growth, they built up a whole new following and got their reputations back. It's again simply unfair that US audiences wanted to trap them in 1864. Can you imagine the Beatles having that put on them? I think Dennis had a great quote about jumping around in Beatle suits. Ok Feet is no Help Me Rhonda, but the majority of what they cut from 67-72 was fantastic. Besides I bet the tape just ended short and they did more then Do It Again for an encore. All in all had the Beach Boys not looked back people would have had to accept them for who they were not who they used to be.

Barry Piatoff, who attended this concert, recalls that there were five additional songs in the encore, including "Little Deuce Coupe", "Help Me Rhonda", and "Johnny B. Goode", and two others. (from Eric's setlist website)

[MBE]

They should have played Yoga Is As Yoga Does right after the poem.

Rocker and I may be the only ones to get the joke
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pro7XpRpU04
Elvis was furious over this one.

[AndrewHickey]

I respect your opinion as well, Sheriff, but I would LOVE to have seen "It's About Time" and "Lookin' at Tomorrow" (O.K., not quite as much, although in the laid-back context of the overall set it would have been mellow) live.

Actually, on the evidence of recordings from that era, Lookin' At Tomorrow was *fantastic* live - totally rearranged, and sounding almost trip-hop - easily twenty years ahead of its time...

[Andrew G. Doe]

Mike's "TM Poem" is almost certainly "Rishikesh", which he recites on the Charles Lloyd album Waves.

[phirnis]

Is Waves actually worth checking out?

[Dove Nested Towers]

They should have played Yoga Is As Yoga Does right after the poem.

Rocker and I may be the only ones to get the joke
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pro7XpRpU04
Elvis was furious over this one.

Absolutely hilarious!

That would have been a seamless and brilliant concert transition from "Rishikesh"!
An appropriate follow-up to another "pain in the posterious" (see clip).

Interesting that "Looking at Tomorrow" had an innovative and fresh arrangement live.
I would have expected no less from them in that brief, precious era.

BTW, off-topic, I'm assuming Elvis was furious because he was contractually obligated to do whatever was scripted, no matter how inane, no? Great to see the legendary and very funny
"Bride of Frankenstein" herself, Elsa Lanchester, facing down Elvis like that.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Before I make a point, again I want to reiterate that I respect(ed) the Beach Boys for going with a bold and ambitious setlist in the early 1970's. But....

So many times, especially on this board, Endless Summer is "blamed" for the band going back to the oldies, and abandoning the progressive stance of their previous three or four albums. Not that I'm defending Endless Summer, but I think we're guilty of putting the horse before the cart.

I think the group's going with more oldies in their setlist started a few years BEFORE Endless Summer, and was more a product of the fans demanding them, than the success of Endless Summer dictating them. I have read some articles where Beach Boys concerts in the early 1970's had fans just sitting there, only to come alive and on their feet WHEN the old classics were played. I mean, the guys didn't have to be hit on the head to figure out what was happening. It's one thing to make your point and stand tall, but pride comes before a fall.

Again, I'm sorry to repeat myself - I really love ALL of the Beach Boys' music including the Surf's Up songs - but is that really what the people wanted to hear live? Is that what the guys really enjoyed playing? Or, as someone noted in an earlier post, did the guys feel obligated to play those songs to sell their current album? Or, was it a backlash to the criticism they might've been receiving from some cool journalists who thought they were washed up? And, finally, I wonder if the real personalities of the guys were more reflected in the 1962-66 period than the early 1970's period? Anyway...

I just don't think they could've survived taking that album cut or rarity route. The songs weren't THAT good. They weren't the Beatles or Bob Dylan who could've or would've been able to get away with it. Go with me on this for a minute....At concerts, say you had those chairs/seats with those electronic voting machines on the arms, and the fans could vote. Would they vote for "Barbara" or "Barbara Ann"? "Don't Go Near The Water" or "Surfin USA"? "Student Demonstration Time" or "Be True To Your School"? "Take A Load Off Your Feet" or "I Get Around"? Of course there's no contest. And it was that reason that led the guys to change the setlists. Endless Summer just became a reflection of those setlists.

[Dancing Bear]

There's that recent J.W.Guercio interview, about the turning point when the set list started to reflect what the audience really wanted. According to him, the switch was welcome by EVERYONE in the band. And he's a Dennis'n'Carl guy.

[urbanite]

Did they ever play The Night Was Young or Roller Skating Child in concert?

I remember a concert in New York in 1976 where they played "Airplane" and there wasn't much audience reaction because it was a dud of a song, but there are plenty of 1970's gems that could have been tacked onto the concert songlist. 

[KokoMoses]

I have a Love You Tour soundboard recording where they do a VERY sped up Roller Skating Child and a kick-ass Honkin Down The Highway.

There's also a Surfer Girl on there where Dennis messes up the words and Brian decised to, um....... vamp!

[MBE]

They should have played Yoga Is As Yoga Does right after the poem.

Rocker and I may be the only ones to get the joke
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pro7XpRpU04
Elvis was furious over this one.

Absolutely hilarious!

That would have been a seamless and brilliant concert transition from "Rishikesh"!
An appropriate follow-up to another "pain in the posterious" (see clip).

Interesting that "Looking at Tomorrow" had an innovative and fresh arrangement live.
I would have expected no less from them in that brief, precious era.

BTW, off-topic, I'm assuming Elvis was furious because he was contractually obligated to do whatever was scripted, no matter how inane, no? Great to see the legendary and very funny
"Bride of Frankenstein" herself, Elsa Lanchester, facing down Elvis like that.

Well he was mad for two reasons. First because he detested the song, but more because he thought Col. Parker put the scene in to mock Elvis' interest in yoga and eastern philosophy.

[MBE]

Before I make a point, again I want to reiterate that I respect(ed) the Beach Boys for going with a bold and ambitious setlist in the early 1970's. But....

So many times, especially on this board, Endless Summer is "blamed" for the band going back to the oldies, and abandoning the progressive stance of their previous three or four albums. Not that I'm defending Endless Summer, but I think we're guilty of putting the horse before the cart.

I think the group's going with more oldies in their setlist started a few years BEFORE Endless Summer, and was more a product of the fans demanding them, than the success of Endless Summer dictating them. I have read some articles where Beach Boys concerts in the early 1970's had fans just sitting there, only to come alive and on their feet WHEN the old classics were played. I mean, the guys didn't have to be hit on the head to figure out what was happening. It's one thing to make your point and stand tall, but pride comes before a fall.

Again, I'm sorry to repeat myself - I really love ALL of the Beach Boys' music including the Surf's Up songs - but is that really what the people wanted to hear live? Is that what the guys really enjoyed playing? Or, as someone noted in an earlier post, did the guys feel obligated to play those songs to sell their current album? Or, was it a backlash to the criticism they might've been receiving from some cool journalists who thought they were washed up? And, finally, I wonder if the real personalities of the guys were more reflected in the 1962-66 period than the early 1970's period? Anyway...

I just don't think they could've survived taking that album cut or rarity route. The songs weren't THAT good. They weren't the Beatles or Bob Dylan who could've or would've been able to get away with it. Go with me on this for a minute....At concerts, say you had those chairs/seats with those electronic voting machines on the arms, and the fans could vote. Would they vote for "Barbara" or "Barbara Ann"? "Don't Go Near The Water" or "Surfin USA"? "Student Demonstration Time" or "Be True To Your School"? "Take A Load Off Your Feet" or "I Get Around"? Of course there's no contest. And it was that reason that led the guys to change the setlists. Endless Summer just became a reflection of those setlists.

While I wish Dennis would have sang more of his ballads, the 1973 sets are pretty well balanced at presenting the entire Beach Boys story. There was room for everything really, and I don't think it's "bad" to play hits. Still I do think the Beach Boys music in 1967-72 is every bit as good, as honest, as important as their early work. They had every right to be a modern band, and a performer has no obligation to be anything but what they are currently. Now the Beach Boys would not have pleased casual American fans, but as Al said people needed to be reeducated as to who the Beach Boys really were. So no I don't think it was a problem to balance the shows out, but I do think they eventually went too much in the direction of being crowd pleaser's.

1974 is the root of the problem, without a new album to promote obviously they had less to offer. Endless Summer gets partial blame because it wrecked the delicate balance between the old and new, and also cemented an antiquated image of the Beach Boys in the publics mind. So OK they had a hit album they are going to do a lot of it because of that. In 1974 they still played most of the stuff with real energy, but by 1984 or 1994? I will grant Beach Boys credit that through 1980 they did include mid period material and promote their new albums, but since much of the new stuff was retro the Beach Boys hardly came off as current. Through 1976 I don't think there were any concerts you could call bad, but from 1977-83 substance abuse constantly hurt the shows. By 1984 when that was all behind them the concerts were on auto pilot. The show I saw during the 1993 box set tour, as well as the Mike and Bruce orchestral performance in 2007, plus nearly all of Brian's sets proved to that the 1973 format can work. People did accept and were impressed with the later stuff, and because they got the hits too they were willing to listen. From 1981-97 the Beach Boys had only one tour that really showed off the true breadth of their talents and to me that is wrong.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Still I do think the Beach Boys music in 1967-72 is every bit as good, as honest, as important as their early work. They had every right to be a modern band, and a performer has no obligation to be anything but what they are currently. Now the Beach Boys would not have pleased casual American fans, but as Al said people needed to be reeducated as to who the Beach Boys really were. So no I don't think it was a problem to balance the shows out, but I do think they eventually went too much in the direction of being crowd pleaser's.

Good conversation and debate, MBE. Enjoying it. I do, however, disagree with almost everything you wrote that I highlighted above.

I don't agree that the Beach Boys' music from 19767-72 is every bit as good, as honest, and as important as their early work. But, even if I did, that doesn't necessarily mean it will go over AS WELL LIVE. And I don't think it did. Competent yes, entertaining, not exactly. And that's what a live performance is - entertainment.

So Al thought the fans needed to be re-educated as to who the Beach Boys really were? Really? Who were they? This is just my opinion, but were the guys really like the music they were composing during that time frame (1967-72), or were they just trying to be different, non-surf & turf, and cool? With the exception of Dennis, when the guys - Mike, Bruce, Carl, soon Al, and even our beloved Brian, had the opportunity to do solo albums, what did they come up with? Totally uncool, non-different, slightly retro stuff. People criticize the group for "going back" with 15 Big Ones, MIU, KTSA, and SIP, but, maybe that's who they really were/are, not "Feel Flows" or "Student Demonstration Time".

And finally, what's wrong with being crowd pleasers? As opposed to....?
 
 

[MBE]

I enjoy the debate and I suppose where we differ most is down to personal taste. I feel the new music could and did make for great concerts. If something is good then it is entertainment. Sure a concert has a different dynamic then a studio, but take "Don't Go Near The Water" for instance. When the did it live it took on a clap along quality and they put a tougher rhythm put behind it.  Thus to my ears it made the transition from studio cut to live showcase perfectly. Charles Lloyd added  so much with his semi improvisational musicianship into the "Feel Flows and All This Is That" segments from 76-78. On the tapes and films I have heard or seen audiences applauded hard for him.

They were who they choice to be publically at any given time. Where the debate lies is whether it was natural or contrived. Rieley may have been encouraging a certain approach, but I think before he arrived the group was already headed down the path they took. Maybe it doesn't feel authentic to you, but it feels that way to me. What strikes me false are all those later albums you mentioned. Not every track of course, but I think they tried too hard to be the stereotyped "Beach Boys" and mostly it didn't fly. Like I said there is nothing wrong with pleasing the crowd, but when there isn't any risks taken the show looses all its challenge and creative purpose. Again what I stress is that there was a fine balance and the Beach Boys weren't particularly good about maintaining it. If they had to error on one side I would pick the esoteric every time and that goes for anybody I see. If I want to hear the record I'll stay home. I want to see something that I can't get at home.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Fair enough.

[mikeyj]

were the guys really like the music they were composing during that time frame (1967-72), or were they just trying to be different, non-surf & turf, and cool?

I can certainly see where you are coming from Sheriff but I have to disagree in some respects (particularly the bit I quoted). Just looking at Brian's compositions from that era, "Time To Get Alone", "This Whole World", "Busy Doin' Nothin'", "'Til I Die", "I Went To Sleep" I wouldn't say Brian was trying to be "cool" at all... I think he was writing how he felt at the time. I just don't see how that points relevant anyway Sheriff, I mean wasn't the whole surfing fad them not being themselves and trying to be "cool"? I think the music of that era (67-72) was them trying to do music that THEY wanted to do and was closer to who they really were.

[hypehat]

mike, there's more of the whole Rieley steering them to write topical songs and play them live.  I think Brian didn't buy into that, as he never wrote a 'Student Demonstration Time'. I don't think the rest of the group particularly wanted (it's nigh-on impossible to say, obviously) to, i always got the feeling they were getting slightly desperate to sell records like they used to. and when that didn't go over, and the old stuff did, they went that way. Which is tres cynical of me, but that's how i see it
and that's really a spectactular setlist, regardless of the quality of the songs - opening with Good Vibes?! into Don't Go Near The Water! People harp about on Brian's band being adventurous (and that's another thread ), but that's just something else 

[TonyW]

I've really been enjoying this thread, I love this era of the Beach Boys so it's great to see it receive such attention. With discussions about how the audience perceived the band during this time I decided to sit down and have a good listen to the Princeton show from Nov 13, '71. About 6 weeks later than the Carneigie Hall show which AGD posted and with a very similar set list:

Thanks to Eric's site:
1. GOOD VIBRATIONS
2. DON'T GO NEAR THE WATER
3. DARLIN'
4. WOULDN'T IT BE NICE
5. LONG PROMISED ROAD
6. STUDENT DEMONSTRATION TIME
7. DISNEY GIRLS (1957)
8. TAKE A LOAD OFF YOUR FEET
9. SLOOP JOHN B.
10. SURFIN' U.S.A.
11. IT'S ABOUT TIME
-Intermission-
12. COOL COOL WATER
13. LOOKIN' AT TOMORROW (A WELFARE SONG)
14. CAROLINE, NO
15. GOD ONLY KNOWS
16. SURF'S UP
17. COTTONFIELDS
18. HEROES AND VILLAINS
-Encore-
19. CALIFORNIA GIRLS
20. I GET AROUND
21. HELP ME, RHONDA (Carl on lead)
22. FUN, FUN, FUN

Any questions about the crowd enjoying the set list are immediately dispelled when you listen to their reactions. It was great to sit down for a couple of hours and listen, perhaps the biggest enjoyment I got out of this show took me completely by surprise - I'm no fan of Student Demonstration Time, infact I think its an abomination on the Surf's Up album, but darn they kick arse on this one live (a bit like the cool Summer In Paradise live recording from Wembly). There is a good mixture of old classics and new songs on this set list - it's also the show with the "Brian's in the music" comment. Really enjoyable.


ooohhhhh for some quality soundboards from this era ...




.... good lord, I just realised a did a post with the words "cool" and "Summer In Paradise" in the same sentence .... my credability is nada ....

[Ian]

Sheriff, you questioned whether the band was expressing their true selves in the 67-72 period-I think clearly you have to seperate members. One of the things that made the BBs interesting (and also maddening) was the differing opinions, interests, etc.  It's clear that in the 70s and into the 80s Carl did not want to be just a member of an oldies band.  I have interviews from 1967-83 where he consistently argues for playing new songs and mixing up the set lists.  I also have an interview from the 80s where Bruce opines that the peak for him was 1971 at Carnegie Hall and that he isn't that happy with their 80s shows.  Al also expressed some reservations with the direction things were heading.  I think that each member came to grips, in their own way, with the fact that by the mid 80s they were becoming an oldies act...but I think in the 70s they all (yes-including Mike) to some degree wanted to stay relevant and not just become an oldies band.  I think also that the band was pretty committed to the material on Holland for example-I mean the California Saga is close to Al's heart and The Trader was a fave of Carl's, etc...I don't think they were just trying to be hip (though I do believe Student Demonstration Time was an attempt to be hip) 

[Jay]

Sheriff, you questioned whether the band was expressing their true selves in the 67-72 period-I think clearly you have to seperate members. One of the things that made the BBs interesting (and also maddening) was the differing opinions, interests, etc.  It's clear that in the 70s and into the 80s Carl did not want to be just a member of an oldies band.  I have interviews from 1967-83 where he consistently argues for playing new songs and mixing up the set lists.  I also have an interview from the 80s where Bruce opines that the peak for him was 1971 at Carnegie Hall and that he isn't that happy with their 80s shows.  Al also expressed some reservations with the direction things were heading.  I think that each member came to grips, in their own way, with the fact that by the mid 80s they were becoming an oldies act...but I think in the 70s they all (yes-including Mike) to some degree wanted to stay relevant and not just become an oldies band.  I think also that the band was pretty committed to the material on Holland for example-I mean the California Saga is close to Al's heart and The Trader was a fave of Carl's, etc...I don't think they were just trying to be hip (though I do believe Student Demonstration Time was an attempt to be hip) 

It's also interesting to note that during the early 70's, Mike was much more outspoken at shows than he is now. Listen to how he throws his two cents in after Dennis tells his Nixon joke at the Hartford 1973 show. Mike back then wasn't the "I'm picking up Bush vibrations", ultra conservative guy that he is now.

[MBE]

I've really been enjoying this thread, I love this era of the Beach Boys so it's great to see it receive such attention. With discussions about how the audience perceived the band during this time I decided to sit down and have a good listen to the Princeton show from Nov 13, '71. About 6 weeks later than the Carneigie Hall show which AGD posted and with a very similar set list:

Thanks to Eric's site:
1. GOOD VIBRATIONS
2. DON'T GO NEAR THE WATER
3. DARLIN'
4. WOULDN'T IT BE NICE
5. LONG PROMISED ROAD
6. STUDENT DEMONSTRATION TIME
7. DISNEY GIRLS (1957)
8. TAKE A LOAD OFF YOUR FEET
9. SLOOP JOHN B.
10. SURFIN' U.S.A.
11. IT'S ABOUT TIME
-Intermission-
12. COOL COOL WATER
13. LOOKIN' AT TOMORROW (A WELFARE SONG)
14. CAROLINE, NO
15. GOD ONLY KNOWS
16. SURF'S UP
17. COTTONFIELDS
18. HEROES AND VILLAINS
-Encore-
19. CALIFORNIA GIRLS
20. I GET AROUND
21. HELP ME, RHONDA (Carl on lead)
22. FUN, FUN, FUN

Any questions about the crowd enjoying the set list are immediately dispelled when you listen to their reactions. It was great to sit down for a couple of hours and listen, perhaps the biggest enjoyment I got out of this show took me completely by surprise - I'm no fan of Student Demonstration Time, infact I think its an abomination on the Surf's Up album, but darn they kick arse on this one live (a bit like the cool Summer In Paradise live recording from Wembly). There is a good mixture of old classics and new songs on this set list - it's also the show with the "Brian's in the music" comment. Really enjoyable.


ooohhhhh for some quality soundboards from this era ...




.... good lord, I just realised a did a post with the words "cool" and "Summer In Paradise" in the same sentence .... my credability is nada ....

I always kind of liked SDT. I mean the words were dated within a year but it has a real kick to it. The one at that show is really really good and I noticed that when I first heard the LP boot of it. Don't Go Near The Water I think is great that night too. Surf's Up did pretty well for the group and I am sure a lot of the college crowd knew the album.

[Autotune]

It's also interesting to note that during the early 70's, Mike was much more outspoken at shows than he is now. Listen to how he throws his two cents in after Dennis tells his Nixon joke at the Hartford 1973 show. Mike back then wasn't the "I'm picking up Bush vibrations", ultra conservative guy that he is now.

While it's true that repetition has rendered some of Mike's on-stage banter tiresome, would you really use the "ultra conservative" tag on Mike?

True, he questions what he sees as over-pretientiousness in pop music, but he's a pretty sophisticated guy himself, has spoken openly against the Irak war, and condemns anti-environmental policies. He's more of a liberal than the "Wouldn't it be nice" book or the Bush Sr.-friendly attitude of the early 80s leads us to think.

[Awesoman]

I don't think it has been mentioned yet but when the Beach Boys toured with Chicago they supposedly performed "Surf's Up" with Robert Lamm singing some of the vocals...have yet to hear this but would love to!

[the captain]

Regarding Mike's politics (from a few posts ago), I think he's a good example of the fact that there isn't a clear, single "left" and "right." We've created stereotypes for them, but they don't stand up in real life. From what I understand, Mike is probably conservative on some issues (economic) and more liberal on others (environmental concerns, anti-war). I don't see anything unusual about that. In fact, I'd argue that most people who match party lines on all the issues aren't doing their own thinking.