Stereo Pet Sounds

[Aegir]

I've probably only listened to stereo Pet Sounds twice. And one of those times is right now. I really don't like it at all. One of the things I like about Pet Sounds is how all the instruments seem to be part of one cohesive whole. In stereo, it sounds like each instrument was recorded separately (even though I know that's not the case). And I think perhaps the levels are different. Some elements sound louder or quieter than others.

There are a few elements I never noticed before, which is cool. This is the version I'd listen to if I wanted to dissect the recordings.

But overall, I like the mono version much better. Maybe it's just because I'm so used to it, as I've been listening to regularly for six years (which may not seem like a lot to you old-timers).

What are other people's opinions on this?

[the captain]

I enjoy listening to it when I do, but I rarely do.

Typically I prefer stereo music to mono. But for whatever reason, I do prefer the mono version of Pet Sounds, and maybe--probably?--it's just that particular stereo mix. Maybe if Brian Wilson heard through both ears and made the stereo mix back then, I'd have preferred it. I don't know. But anyway, that's my preference. Stereo is OK for me, but mono is better.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Me, I'm just the opposite. I can't listen to mono at all,as it just sounds muddy & flat....except for "I'm Waiting for the Day", which IMHO sounds 1000x better mono than in stereo.

[Dove Nested Towers]

When I listen to it, also infrequently, the isolation of the vocal channel is interesting, as it re-
veals some occasional imperfections that I'm surprised that Brian was satisfied with (not to
question the master), which are hidden in the mono mix. Actually, only one comes to mind, in
the second verse of "You Still Believe In Me'' when he sings a clearly off-key note (I don't remember which word.)

I guess the overall take stood out as the best so the bad note was tolerated, and it isn't de-
tectable in the mono mix.

(Or I could conceivably have a tin ear.)

[MBE]

Stereo just doesn't feel right. Brian admitted to me he didn't care about it at all. It's fun as a novelty but that's about it.

[Daniel S.]

Mono.

[Sam_BFC]

On the whole I find a greater degree of clarity in stereo.

[lance]

I go back and forth. Now, I prefer the stereo version but not too long ago I preferred the mono.

I feel the backing vocals are a little more noticeable in stereo, and that is what I like.

HOWEVER...For EVERYTHING (except Surfin' USA for some reason) before, say, TODAY I think the mono is far, far, far superior. So much that I have to make albums with the songs from the box set mixed with the songs from the (stereo) reissues.

 I generally prefer the new stereo mixes of Today and Summer Daysslightly over the mono.

[The infamous Baldwin Organ]

I like mono LPs for a lot of releases, but Pet Sounds isn't one of them. The Today! mono mix is perfectly fine, but to my ears, the Pet Sounds mono mix is just about one of the worst I've heard. but that's just my personal opinion.

[The Heartical Don]

Stereo by far. Normally I am all for historic truthfulness, but in this case... the mono issues, even the best, perhaps sound really in your face, but to my ears still have some sort of AM muddiness. Switching from mono to stereo for me is like switching from AM to FM. Worlds open. Rivers begin to flow. Flowers bloom. A butterfly lands on my leg. Yes, it's the creation of the world, folks.

[Bicyclerider]

I'm a big fan of mono mixes, especially original mono 45 mixes of many 60's hits which are unfortunately now lost forever (except to those collectors who own the records).  However, I prefer the stereo Pet Sounds.  The mono mixes were done hurriedly and carelessly by Brian and Chuck (Brian has commented on this several times and has said he doesn't know why he rushed the mixes) with mistakes (talking, etc.) left in and a muddy overall sound that some obviously like but I feel do not do the songs justice.  Part of the problem was how he recorded it - 4 tracks of instrumental, including the most "players" he'd ever used, bounced down to one track of an eight track tape.  Sometimes two bounces to get down to one track.  It severely limited the options once the vocals were done - if some instrumental parts were buried with the vocals, he couldn't bring them up without the whole instrumental track going up in volume.  Again, according to Brian the muddy mistake laden mono mixes were NOT intentional, they were rushed.  One of the musicians is quoted in the PS box set booklet about his disappointment in the mixes after all the work Brian put into the tracks.

So I just don't get the slavish devotion to the "original mono mixes" - they just weren't that great to begin with!  However, they are historic and they're the only mono mixes we're ever going to get (no one's proposed that a new mono mix from the multi's be done).  Brian definitely wanted to mix it in mono to control the listener's experience and take advantage of combining instruments in new combinations to produce new sounds - the Spector influence, and some of that is definitely lost in the stereo mix.  But you gain the increased clarity, dynamics, soundstaging, detail and resolution that is lacking in the mono.

I wonder why Capitol didn't have Chuck make stereo mixes of Today, SDSN, and Pet Sounds - granted some of them would be a little wacky with not much to work with instrumental wise (usually just an instrumental overdub could be on one channel, the rest of the instrumental track on the other) but at least there could have been a centered track with stereo vocals on everything.  Did some new edict come out of Brian not to do it, or was duophonic cheaper to do than pay Chuck to do 2 mixes?

[the captain]

So I just don't get the slavish devotion to the "original mono mixes"

I think it's twofold.

1) If it's what a person is used to, or came to know first, it is often (not always) what the person will prefer.

2) Some people are obsessive about things. It's more a fetish-collector issue than a musical one.

[Mahalo]

The stereo versions of the instrumental trax are incredible...IJWMFTT is unreal...heck, they all are. I very much like the talking from the original mono mixes. The lead vocal on mono WIBN seems to break up on the peaks. I thought the stereo mixes were well done. The mono has a tight sound while the stereo breathes a little bit. Both have their pros and cons though.

Anyone listen to stereo Pet Sounds on headphones on a regular basis?

[Dr. Tim]

BicycleRider answers his own question as to why no stereo mixes were done in 1966:

Part of the problem was how he recorded it - 4 tracks of instrumental, including the most "players" he'd ever used, bounced down to one track of an eight track tape.  Sometimes two bounces to get down to one track. 

It was not possible in those days to do any kind of decent true stereo mixes once those bounce-downs were done, beyond instruments in one channel and vocals in the other, like the first Beatles LP and most of the mid-sixties Liberty Records productions (i.e., Gary Lewis and the Playboys, Bob Lind, etc.).  And sometimes new vocals would be added on the fly in the mono mixdown, as happened on God Only Knows.  This was a common technique in those days, both the Who and the Zombies did it too.

Remember that for the Mark Linett mixes, the source backing track tapes and the vocal overdub track tapes had to be not just transferred to digital, but synchronized and speed-corrected to undo the effect of old multi-track tape decks running at slightly different speeds.   In the pre-digital era this was nearly impossible.  (George Martin and the Beatles figured out one way to do it for Sgt. Pepper, but soon thereafter better multi-track tape decks came along).  And again, as long as the records sold, true stereo could take a back seat.  Yes it was the general practice to do both mono and stereo mixes, but not always, and many top-40 hits of the sixties only sport mono mixes, or were not re-done in stereo until the CD era.  Some cannot be done whether you like it or not because the session tapes are gone (i.e., GV, A Whiter Shade of Pale). I would be interested to hear the historical perspectives of Mark or Mr. Desper on this.

PS:  Stereo Pet Sounds is now my default listening mode, I love hearing it all spread out.  I respect the original mono and won't turn it off when it comes on, though.

[Cal]

I always thought the modern stereo mix of PET SOUNDS complimented and improved the album and brought it to life as the original mono mix always felt flat. BUT, the DVD-A version that contains the mono mix is absolutely superb. The mono mix now has snap and punch to it that was always lacking.

Regards,
Cal aka "Beatle Bob"

[TdHabib]

Mono for me. I can't even consider listening to "You Still Believe in Me" in stereo at all. Did once and regret it to this day. "Here Today" also loses a lot of punch in the stero incarnation. I must admit that I do listen to "I Just Wasn't Made for These Times" in stereo because the Spanish backing vocals are louder and I love those, but still that's only sometimes. Linnett did a good job on the mixes for sure, but he (admittedly I'm sure) could never do the sensative, passionate mix that the 66 Brian could do.

[Mahalo]

I bought the DVD-A version last year and still haven't played it yet...waiting till I get true surround capabilities. Gives me something to look forward to.

Mono for me. I can't even consider listening to "You Still Believe in Me" in stereo at all. Did once and regret it to this day.

That's very dramatic. It's not that bad.

"Here Today" also loses a lot of punch in the stero incarnation.

Agreed...plus the talking fits perfectly.

[runnersdialzero]

Eh, I prefer it in stereo. To me, an album like Pet Sounds is an album that NEEDS to be in stereo. And like Bicyclerider said, the original album was mixed so quickly and without a whole lot of care, and I think it shows. I do like the mono mix, I think it needs to continue to exist alongside the stereo mix for history's sake, but I just prefer it in stereo

I think the stereo mix was very tastefully done.

I even enjoy the "errors" of the stereo mix. Brian's vocal during the bridge of "Wouldn't It Be Nice?" beats Mike's, I think "You Still Believe In Me" sounds much better and less cluttered with a single track lead vocal, and the ending of "God Only Know" is just a much better performance than on the original mix.

*dodges bricks*

[DonnyL]

the original mono mixes have more mystery and artistic intrigue.  all of the "mistakes" that were left in are artifacts from the moments in time when brian created it.

[Shane]

I do listen to both mixes often, but I think I prefer the stereo.  The mono mix is "historically" correct, but the stereo mix was done with an incredible amount of love and care... and it completely shows.  I do most of my listening with headphones, and I would suggest anyone who hasn't heard the stereo version that way to do so.  Its great!

I think this was mentioned earlier, and I agree with it: Pet Sounds is an album that needs to be in stereo.  Its so complex that listening to it in mono buries so many of its intricacies.  A simple "guitar drums and bass" album like "Surfin' USA" really loses nothing in translation to mono.  Pet Sounds loses a tremendous amount of detail.  To make matters worse, the mono mix isn't even a good one... the first time I heard Pet Sounds, my thought was, "it sounds like a band that's playing in the distance".  The volume of the mix is low, "in the mud" as an engineer would call it.

As I said, I do listen to the mono version from time to time, just to experience the original intent of the album.  The separation of stereo does take away from the Spectorian nature of the recordings. 

And then there's that weird noise on "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times" that's on the mono mix only.  I love it.  The noise happens during the second half of the first line- Brian sings "where I can speak my mind".  I don't know what it is, but it's a perfect accident.  A listen to the SOT reveals this sound appeared when the instrumental track was transferred from 4 track to the one track of the 8 track tape.

[Bicyclerider]

BicycleRider answers his own question as to why no stereo mixes were done in 1966:

Part of the problem was how he recorded it - 4 tracks of instrumental, including the most "players" he'd ever used, bounced down to one track of an eight track tape.  Sometimes two bounces to get down to one track. 

It was not possible in those days to do any kind of decent true stereo mixes once those bounce-downs were done, beyond instruments in one channel and vocals in the other, like the first Beatles LP and most of the mid-sixties Liberty Records productions (i.e., Gary Lewis and the Playboys, Bob Lind, etc.).  And sometimes new vocals would be added on the fly in the mono mixdown, as happened on God Only Knows.  This was a common technique in those days, both the Who and the Zombies did it too.

Remember that for the Mark Linett mixes, the source backing track tapes and the vocal overdub track tapes had to be not just transferred to digital, but synchronized and speed-corrected to undo the effect of old multi-track tape decks running at slightly different speeds.   In the pre-digital era this was nearly impossible.  (George Martin and the Beatles figured out one way to do it for Sgt. Pepper, but soon thereafter better multi-track tape decks came along).  And again, as long as the records sold, true stereo could take a back seat.  Yes it was the general practice to do both mono and stereo mixes, but not always, and many top-40 hits of the sixties only sport mono mixes, or were not re-done in stereo until the CD era.  Some cannot be done whether you like it or not because the session tapes are gone (i.e., GV, A Whiter Shade of Pale). I would be interested to hear the historical perspectives of Mark or Mr. Desper on this.

PS:  Stereo Pet Sounds is now my default listening mode, I love hearing it all spread out.  I respect the original mono and won't turn it off when it comes on, though.

I realize that the limitations of the bounce down process limited the stereo possibilities of the tracks, but it didn't prevent stereo mixes of Surfin USA, Surfer Girl, Little Deuce Coupe, All Summer Long, etc.  So why the sudden change to duophonic?  The Beatles had the same limitations (actually more because they didn't get 8 track until after Brian was using it for SDSN, Pet Sounds and Smiley/Wild Honey) but always released stereo versions, even though they are pretty bad stereo (Rubber Soul in particular, sometimes with vocals one channel, instrumental another, etc.).

[The infamous Baldwin Organ]

I always thought those Beatles stereo mixes were just them trying to be hip at the time. I'm not an obsessive Beatles fan, but boy could those albums stand a remix!

Even with more recording tracks, I think the BB's problem was that the instrumentation was so dense, and probably only being recorded on a few stereo tracks. I'm asuming we're talking 8 mono tracks, so minus four for the basic track and one overdub...than add the vocals, and they're running out of space. It would have been so cool to seem them in the studio back then though.

[TdHabib]

I bought the DVD-A version last year and still haven't played it yet...waiting till I get true surround capabilities. Gives me something to look forward to.

Mono for me. I can't even consider listening to "You Still Believe in Me" in stereo at all. Did once and regret it to this day.

That's very dramatic. It's not that bad.

It's just that I always miss the double track. I know there was no way to fix that since the double was added at mixdown. Didn't mean to be really dramatic...

[SG7]

I use to listen to the duophonic version on vinyl and then I was crazy about it in stereo for a while. I do think mono however is one of the best ways to listen to it, like a lot of BB albums. SS is mono is something else!!

[Mahalo]

I bought the DVD-A version last year and still haven't played it yet...waiting till I get true surround capabilities. Gives me something to look forward to.

Mono for me. I can't even consider listening to "You Still Believe in Me" in stereo at all. Did once and regret it to this day.

That's very dramatic. It's not that bad.

It's just that I always miss the double track. I know there was no way to fix that since the double was added at mixdown. Didn't mean to be really dramatic...

i miss that double track to- it's ethereal.