Holland - did they change sides?

[Goin’Bald]

Recently I visited a friend of mine who showed me a copy of an English white label promo album of Holland. The song titles are written with a pen on both labels and even written down are Side 1 and Side 2 with the song titles. Nothing strange so far. Funny thing is, that side one is the album side we know as side two (and side 1 is the 2nd side). Thinking about that, to me it sounds quite natural that the album would start with The Trader (because of the ‘hi’ at the beginning) and that album was going to end with the trilogy, as a sort of best for last. Does anybody know if that was the initial sequencing of songs on the album and if so, why they changed the sides of that album?

[adamghost]

Interesting theory.  I always found it hard to believe they were actually going to open the album with "Steamboat."  Like it or hate it (I'm in the latter category), it's a dirge if there ever was one.

[The infamous Baldwin Organ]

That is interesting. In this pressing, was it with Sail on Sailor or We Got Love?

Holland is actually my favorite BBs album, so I'd get a kick hearing about the details of it.

[Roger Ryan]

Interesting theory.  I always found it hard to believe they were actually going to open the album with "Steamboat."  Like it or hate it (I'm in the latter category), it's a dirge if there ever was one.

Well, I see now why you didn't include this one in your "Carl & Dennis" shows!

Wasn't "We Got Love" supposed to be in the "Sail On, Sailor" position? If so, it still makes sense that the album would open with "The Trader" (followed by "Leaving This Town", etc.) with "We Got Love" opening Side B (followed by "Steamboat") and the California Saga concluding the album. Once "Sail On, Sailor" came aboard, it probably made sense to open the album with it so the sides were switched to faciliate this without having to resequence the rest of the tracks.

[Dancing Bear]

In the famous original track-list - or at least the German one that got away - Steamboat opened side A.

[smile-holland]

If the original line-up of songs (with WGL, and without Sail On Sailor) and the sides being reversed, the theory of ending with the saga doesn't work. "Side B" would be Steamboat, the Saga, We Got Love.

[harveyw]

I have a UK test pressing of Holland with the original track line-up, and, while the labels are completely blank, the matrix numbers indicate that the opening tack of the LP is indeed Steamboat, followed by the Saga, then We Got Love. If there was ever an opening track less conducive to further listening than Steamboat, I've yet to hear it. It certainly makes more sense to open the LP with The Trader. 

[Aegir]

"Don't worry, Mr. Fulton, we'll get your Steamboat rolling" is a metaphor for the album, really. Sure, it's starting off slow, but don't worry, Mr. Fulton, we'll get this album rockin'.

[punkinhead]

I always thought Funky Pretty was a great prelude to Mt. Vernon   

[the captain]

I always thought Funky Pretty was a great prelude to Mt. Vernon   

But of course it wouldn't have mattered whether the sides were flipped in that regard: at the time of release, the end of the album wasn't a prelude at all. They were separate records. (Hard for younger ears who discovered this music on CD--and in fact on twofers (such as me) -- to keep that sort of thing in mind. Must have been a very different experience with all the albums.)

[Aegir]

And I'm the next generation, I guess - I upload all my CDs to my computer and listen to them in iTunes, which arranges albums alphabetically by artist. After Holland comes In Concert, which is wonderful. I have to go out of my way to listen to Mt. Vernon, which is why I've only listened to it a few times.

[punkinhead]

I usually do take that in consideration...had I grown up then, I prolly woulda done the same, right after Holland's ending, I'd pop on Mt. Vernon and dem the lights..... 

[MBE]

I think Steamboat is great. Perhaps I'm alone. The EP does feel like a seperate record in some ways on vinyl.

[phirnis]

I think Steamboat is great. Perhaps I'm alone. The EP does feel like a seperate record in some ways on vinyl.

I like it too. It's a real album cut for sure, wouldn't have made any sense as a single or even as a concert tune. Totally unique addition to DW's oeuvre, which makes it an even better song as far as I'm concerned.

[JB Wilojarston]

About STEAMBOAT: I think the song may have taken on a more lumbering feeling after Jack Reilly's lyrics were added. I've heard an alternate mix of Steamboat (sounds like Dennis counts off the track) and at the break, before the slide guitar solo, Dennis comes in on a vocal track for a few seconds. He's singing his original lyric, "Honey, don't get me wrong..." he begins another line and the channel fades, unfortunately. 

[Jon Stebbins]

Steamboat is great...very Smile-esque in a way...but in a 1972 fame of mind. Typical of Dennis in that it is much darker than most BB's music.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I always thought Funky Pretty was a great prelude to Mt. Vernon   

But of course it wouldn't have mattered whether the sides were flipped in that regard: at the time of release, the end of the album wasn't a prelude at all. They were separate records. (Hard for younger ears who discovered this music on CD--and in fact on twofers (such as me) -- to keep that sort of thing in mind. Must have been a very different experience with all the albums.)

To tell you the truth, "Mt. Vernon And Fairway" was a pain in the neck. After Holland was over, you had to get off your chair/bed and change records, pulling out this little EP, listening to a couple minutes of it, then get off your chair/bed again, and flipping the side over. No CD's, no remote controls - needles and tonearms!

OK, I'm gonna be Mr. Meany, but, I never liked Carl's kid saying "Hi" at the beginning of "Trader". It always sounded out of place to me, on such a cool song. I'm sorry....

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Steamboat is great...very Smile-esque in a way...but in a 1972 fame of mind. Typical of Dennis in that it is much darker than most BB's music.

Steamboat and other Dennis tunes of the 70s wouldn't be out of place on a Pink Floyd album IMO! And I love Pink Floyd!

[Eric Aniversario]

OK, I'm gonna be Mr. Meany, but, I never liked Carl's kid saying "Hi" at the beginning of "Trader". It always sounded out of place to me, on such a cool song. I'm sorry....

I always thought it was Carnie?  Was it really one of Carl's sons?

[Eric Aniversario]

Steamboat is great...very Smile-esque in a way...but in a 1972 fame of mind. Typical of Dennis in that it is much darker than most BB's music.

It took about 15 years of listening for that song to finally grow on me...I do like it now.

[Aegir]

OK, I'm gonna be Mr. Meany, but, I never liked Carl's kid saying "Hi" at the beginning of "Trader". It always sounded out of place to me, on such a cool song. I'm sorry....

I always thought it was Carnie?  Was it really one of Carl's sons?

Yeah, it's Jonah Wilson, I think. It sounds high-pitched, but boys and girls sound pretty similar when they're really young.

[TdHabib]

Over at Shut Down, somebody made a mix of Holland framing the whole thing with "Mount Vernon" and also included material from CATP I like it a lot, it makes some of the less-endearing stuff more palatable;

Side One

 1) Mt Vernon and Fairway (theme)
 2) You Need A Mess of Help to Stand Alone
 3) Funky Pretty
 4) He Come Down
 5) Marcella

 Side Two

 1) Trader
 2) Steamboat
 3) California Saga
   a- Big Sur
   b-The Beaks of Eagles
   c- Sunny California

  Side Three

 1) Leaving This Town
 2) Make It Good
 3) All This Is That
 4) Cuddle Up
 5) Only with You

   Side Four

 1) Mt Vernon and Fairway- A Fairy Tale
 2) Sail On Sailor

When I did the mix, I put a few bits of "Mount Vernon" on sides two and three, and then the resolution came on side four followed by "Sail on Sailor."

Oh, and I love "Steamboat"

[the captain]

I've done a Holland/CATP mix, too. I like both those albums well enough, but I think there was one really good single album's worth in there. (I've done the same with Sunflower/Surf's Up, although I think both of those are stronger to begin with and don't need to be messed with. Messing's just in my nature.)

[c-man]

About STEAMBOAT: I think the song may have taken on a more lumbering feeling after Jack Reilly's lyrics were added. I've heard an alternate mix of Steamboat (sounds like Dennis counts off the track) and at the break, before the slide guitar solo, Dennis comes in on a vocal track for a few seconds. He's singing his original lyric, "Honey, don't get me wrong..." he begins another line and the channel fades, unfortunately. 

Did that alternate mix also have the final vocals?

[Jonas]

I like Funky Pretty as a closer tbh, but that fan mix looks cool, plus I really like Here She Comes after Mess...