I Love To Say Da Da

[A Million Units In Jan!]

So, someone refresh my memory. What proof is there that ILTSD was going to be the water part of The Elements? Is it all heresay and rumor?  Or am I forgetting something?

[Andrew G. Doe]

The clarinet riff. 

[Wrightfan]

Duh! It was called In Blue Hawaii on BWPS 

Honestly, it's another SMiLE mystery. There's that version that has the bird noises which makes it an Air candidate (but that's not the case since there's the missing piano piece that Brian did.)

P.S. The sudden rest after the first section is one of my favorite SMiLE moments. Hate that they had to fill it up on BWPS. Long rests are a Brian Wilson trademark!

[c-man]

 There's that version that has the bird noises which makes it an Air candidate (but that's not the case since there's the missing piano piece that Brian did.)

Y'know, regarding that missing "air" piano piece...is it possible that's actually the second movement in "Wind Chimes" (which has that piano interlude) ? 

[Jason]

Da Da is water because Melinda says it is. So there.

[Chris Brown]

Honestly I don't think DaDa was Water...the only Element that we know for sure was "Fire," and the undiscovered piano piece that Brian said was "Air."  Beyond that, the other two are conjecture.  I don't put any stock in the re-titling and placement on BWPS.

[buddhahat]

What i find really interesting is that there's a version of dada on one of the boots that continues after the fade (the mark linnett fade on the gv box version). There's the silent pause then the musicians start up a new melody that's piano led - it's similar in rhythm and sound to child is father of the man but breaks down after 5 seconds or so. This suggests to me that there was a 3rd part to dada, that possibly related it to the cifotm and the child coda of surf's up. Of course this paino led seaction could be a sbrief glimpse of air - i.e. water followed by air! It's definitely very interesting to hear this brief ending. I think it's on unsurpassed masters 17. either that or archaeology.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

Once the water chant came out on Unsurpassed Masters, I always kind of thought that was the water section. Like, maybe water wasn't really going to be music, but a chant. Maybe because the chant in ILTSD is 'waa-waa' everyone assumed that's water. Actually, it's more likely that LLVS started alot of the stuff we think of as 'fact' today-because, you know, everything in that book is 'fact'.
On a side note, the sessions for ILTSDD are pretty interesting, in that Brian sounds pretty happy. I always sort of thought of him as being depressed and really down during at this point in the sessions. Maybe he was really down at this point, but he he sounds pretty happy. I guess it's just more of the stuff we used to think of as 'fact'.
And 'Air Dada' is pretty cool.

[king of anglia]

Isn't it Carl's voice you hear on the sessions for this? Brian being in the studio with musicians.

[c-man]

From Byron Preiss' Authorized Biography of The Beach Boys (1979):
"'I Love to Say Dada' was planned as an ode to water, reflecting not only the element but the pleasure people experienced with it.  Light, full of cute vocal tricks and real water sounds, 'Dada' and another cut, 'Surf's Up', were briefly considered as part of a grand 'Water Suite' within the Elemental Suite itself."

[A Million Units In Jan!]

Isn't it Carl's voice you hear on the sessions for this? Brian being in the studio with musicians.

Hmm, good question. I don't have it right here with me, but I think it's Brian's voice doing the session.

[TdHabib]

There was a pre-BWPS interview with BW on the web that I saw where the interviewer asked Brian about "The Air Element," as I recall Brian repeated "The Air Element?" and paused for a long time (as the interviewer indicated) and then finally the interviewer interjected "was that a piano piece?" and Brian gave the cop-out "yeah" before moving to the next question...

[Andrew G. Doe]

There was a pre-BWPS interview with BW on the web that I saw where the interviewer asked Brian about "The Air Element," as I recall Brian repeated "The Air Element?" and paused for a long time (as the interviewer indicated) and then finally the interviewer interjected "was that a piano piece?" and Brian gave the cop-out "yeah" before moving to the next question...

Many moons ago, just before I interviewed Brian for the first time, David Leaf gave me some outstanding advice: "never ask Brian any question that can be answered by 'yes' or 'no'. Because he will".

[Chris Brown]

There was a pre-BWPS interview with BW on the web that I saw where the interviewer asked Brian about "The Air Element," as I recall Brian repeated "The Air Element?" and paused for a long time (as the interviewer indicated) and then finally the interviewer interjected "was that a piano piece?" and Brian gave the cop-out "yeah" before moving to the next question...

Like AGD said above me, you can't expect any real information when you ask Brian questions like that.  A leading question will almost always result in whatever answer the interviewer wants to hear. 

I think Brian's declaration in the 70's that "Air" was a piano piece that was never finished is a more solid statement. 

I've always thought, like A Million Units said, that the Water chant was the water element.  It seems a bit obvious, but chanting "water" over and over seems like a good indication to me.  I can buy that a lot more easily than the idea that DaDa was water.  I've always thought that the Elements was going to be a series of roughly minute-long pieces strung together into a whole 4 minute track.  "Fire" and "Water Chant" would bear this out, and since we don't know what Earth or Air might have been, this scenario makes the most sense to me.

[c-man]

How about THIS sceanario:  the "Water Chant" and "Dada" are part of the same piece...remember, Brian's whole trip at the time was modular...that's why there's two seemingly disparate pieces to "Wind Chimes", for instance.  I believe Preiss was right...he had access to a lot of inside information, as well as some of the SMiLE acetates and tapes.  And, to these ears, those two pieces of music flow into each other very well.

[Andrew G. Doe]

How about THIS sceanario:  the "Water Chant" and "Dada" are part of the same piece...remember, Brian's whole trip at the time was modular...that's why there's two seemingly disparate pieces to "Wind Chimes", for instance.  I believe Preiss was right...he had access to a lot of inside information, as well as some of the SMiLE acetates and tapes.  And, to these ears, those two pieces of music flow into each other very well.

One cassette tape, no acetates. The cassette had nothing on it we've not had since the early 80s.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I've always thought that the Elements was going to be a series of roughly minute-long pieces strung together into a whole 4 minute track.  "Fire" and "Water Chant" would bear this out, and since we don't know what Earth or Air might have been, this scenario makes the most sense to me.

I've always thought that, too. Which raises another question, to me anyway, and that has to do with "Fire". The actual "Fire" piece is roughly a minute or so, but, if you add the "intro", the bells and whistles part, now we're over two minutes. So, do the bells and whistles part really belong in front of "Fire"? On the boxed set, the track is (erroneously?) titled "Intro To Heroes And Villains". You know, it does sound good right in front of "Heroes And Villains".

[Mahalo]

On CCW there are the "da-da-da-da" background vox...It is easy to hear how ILTSDD morphed into CCW. I hear people splashing and having fun on ILTSDD...no doubt it was the Water element to me. While we're on it, Fall Breaks is the Earth element to me....why not? It sounds very earthy and it is like a theme and variation with the Fire melody. Very suite-ish.

[Jeff]

I've always thought that the Elements was going to be a series of roughly minute-long pieces strung together into a whole 4 minute track.  "Fire" and "Water Chant" would bear this out, and since we don't know what Earth or Air might have been, this scenario makes the most sense to me.

I've always thought that, too. Which raises another question, to me anyway, and that has to do with "Fire". The actual "Fire" piece is roughly a minute or so, but, if you add the "intro", the bells and whistles part, now we're over two minutes. So, do the bells and whistles part really belong in front of "Fire"? On the boxed set, the track is (erroneously?) titled "Intro To Heroes And Villains". You know, it does sound good right in front of "Heroes And Villains".

It's hard to know what to do with H&V intro.  Is it in fact the proper start of the cantina version of H&V?  H&V starts so suddenly that it sort of needs an intro.  Or is it the intro of H&V part 2, assuming that exists?

[Sheriff John Stone]

I've always thought that the Elements was going to be a series of roughly minute-long pieces strung together into a whole 4 minute track.  "Fire" and "Water Chant" would bear this out, and since we don't know what Earth or Air might have been, this scenario makes the most sense to me.

I've always thought that, too. Which raises another question, to me anyway, and that has to do with "Fire". The actual "Fire" piece is roughly a minute or so, but, if you add the "intro", the bells and whistles part, now we're over two minutes. So, do the bells and whistles part really belong in front of "Fire"? On the boxed set, the track is (erroneously?) titled "Intro To Heroes And Villains". You know, it does sound good right in front of "Heroes And Villains".

It's hard to know what to do with H&V intro.  Is it in fact the proper start of the cantina version of H&V?  H&V starts so suddenly that it sort of needs an intro.  Or is it the intro of H&V part 2, assuming that exists?

Yeah, Jeff, those are two legitimate questions. If I could be nitpicky....don't the sirens, bells, and whistles (keystone cops) come AFTER the fire, not before? You know, the fire starts, THEN the sirens begin. Of course, you could intrepret it as the firemen arriving and then fighting the fire.

And, yes, Jeff, "Heroes And Villains" does need an intro. I like the bells and whistles followed by "Heroes And Villains" better than "Our Prayer" followed by "Heroes And Villains". But, that's how it appears on BWPS, so that must be the way Brian intended it.

[Wrightfan]

It is interesting that it could be the intro to H+V...

However let me play devil's advocate. It could be the fireman going out to the fire with the arrival of the fire sounds afterwards.

Also, as to why there's confusion...we know that track scared the sh*t out of Brian. He could've hid it intentionally under a different name.

[c-man]

Honestly I don't think DaDa was Water...the only Element that we know for sure was "Fire," and the undiscovered piano piece that Brian said was "Air."  Beyond that, the other two are conjecture.  I don't put any stock in the re-titling and placement on BWPS.

Why wouldn't you believe Preiss when he says "Dada" was the Water element...and for that matter when he says "Vega-tables" was the Earth element...when on the same page he says that the "Air" element is that wordless piano piece?  Some might say because "Vega-tables" is listed separately from "The Elements" on the back cover slick, but that was based on Carl's submitted lineup.  Also, didn't I read somewhere that the back cover slick was only a proposed mock-up that wasn't produced in mass quantity? (I could be wrong on that, but I could swear I read that in just the past year). 

[Wrightfan]

Honestly I don't think DaDa was Water...the only Element that we know for sure was "Fire," and the undiscovered piano piece that Brian said was "Air."  Beyond that, the other two are conjecture.  I don't put any stock in the re-titling and placement on BWPS.

Why wouldn't you believe Preiss when he says "Dada" was the Water element...and for that matter when he says "Vega-tables" was the Earth element...when on the same page he says that the "Air" element is that wordless piano piece?  Some might say because "Vega-tables" is listed separately from "The Elements" on the back cover slick, but that was based on Carl's submitted lineup.  Also, didn't I read somewhere that the back cover slick was only a proposed mock-up that wasn't produced in mass quantity? (I could be wrong on that, but I could swear I read that in just the past year). 

On Vega-Tables, I believe it was originally intended for The Elements but hasn't it also been said that Brian eventually planned for it to be a stand alone song?

[variable2]

the thing is, Brian was so spontaneous at the time.. that you can't say one way or another that "this was intended for this."  He probably had a handful different conceptions about the Elements Suite alone.  That's what's so magical and frustrating about Smile.  An artist has the power to change his own art, and when you have pure, unbridled, spontaneity like Brian did in 1966 the results can be amazing.. and, obviously, they can also fall apart fast

[MBE]

the thing is, Brian was so spontaneous at the time.. that you can't say one way or another that "this was intended for this."  He probably had a handful different conceptions about the Elements Suite alone.  That's what's so magical and frustrating about Smile.  An artist has the power to change his own art, and when you have pure, unbridled, spontaneity like Brian did in 1966 the results can be amazing.. and, obviously, they can also fall apart fast

Good comment. I doubt Brian ever could sit and play a complete Smile Elements Suite. He had a lot of ideas for it and never tied them together. I know the 2004 one was partially guesswork, but it was given his stamp of approval so to me that's the only real Elements. Of course I like the 1966-7 recordings better, but variable2 points out that Brian changed his mind almost dail.  This led to confusion and dissent which (along with the Capitol lawsuit) led to Smiley Smile. It's pretty simple really in my head anyhow.