The Sgt. Pepper Thread

[the captain]

For mikeyj ... but I'm not going to quite get to it yet. In the mean time, anyone else can post whatever they feel inspired to post.

[Jonas]

overrated

[the captain]

Without speaking to anyone's specific tastes, I think the relatively recent claims of it being overrated are more than anything a reaction to it having been so universally praised (as opposed to there being anything particularly wrong with it). The common criticisms I hear are that it's self-indulgent or too gimmicky...but I often hear that from people who then have jumped on the Love Forever Changes bandwagon, which has seen its general acclaim leap by a factor of a bazillion in the time Pepper has fallen. Personally I think that Pepper has deserved its acclaim all these years, and still does. It's a collection of really good songs that are marvelously produced. The bulk of the music from the psychedelic era just makes me want to gag. Pepper had real tunes, and damn good ones at that.

[Chris Brown]

Without speaking to anyone's specific tastes, I think the relatively recent claims of it being overrated are more than anything a reaction to it having been so universally praised (as opposed to there being anything particularly wrong with it). The common criticisms I hear are that it's self-indulgent or too gimmicky...but I often hear that from people who then have jumped on the Love Forever Changes bandwagon, which has seen its general acclaim leap by a factor of a bazillion in the time Pepper has fallen. Personally I think that Pepper has deserved its acclaim all these years, and still does. It's a collection of really good songs that are marvelously produced. The bulk of the music from the psychedelic era just makes me want to gag. Pepper had real tunes, and damn good ones at that.

I agree...that seems to be the way it goes.  Anything that is almost universally praised suffers a backlash at one point or another.  I do happen to agree that it may be slightly overrated, just by virtue of the fact that there are albums from that era every bit as innovative and brilliant that, for a long time, didn't get the praise they deserved. 

I think that Pepper is a fantastic album.  I've always enjoyed it immensely.  The Beatles managed to combine great songwriting, inventive arrangements and innovative recording techniques, all the while spanning several different genres of music.  The only thing that bugs me is that its stature has become so overpowering that other equally inventive and brilliant albums are looked upon as lesser achievements by comparison.  Yes, it is one of the best albums ever.  But people tend to make overzealous claims about it being the first concept album, first album to use the studio as an instrument, etc. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Pepper is great, and I love it, but it is overhyped, rather than overrated.

[the captain]

See, that's why I don't put much thought into how albums are generally regarded (under- or overrated) except when we end up in threads about them. But I do think Pepper has a solid claim as the best album ever. If people say it's far and away the best album ever, I think it's among the best albums in history. If people say it's sh*t, I think it's among the best albums in history. The album hasn't changed in the 41 years since its release, so if it waxes and wanes in its standing, that's the listeners' or writers' problems, not the Beatles' or the album's.

[lance]

I dont know about "best album of all time". But it is good. (And, no, that's not "backlash", it's my honest opinion.)

It's not my favorite Beatles album(the White album or maybe Revolver gets my vote) but I can understand why it means so much to people. There is so much attention to detail on Pepper; it's so colorful, production wise; it was the peak of the Beatles as a cohesive unit in the push-forward mid-sixties; every album was a leap forward in some ways and SGT. Pepper completed that cycle. Afterwards, Magical Mystery Tour was a somewhat misguided step side-ways.

Strangely though, I really don't think that it's song-by-song the Beatles greatest--it's the whole package that makes it so good.

Song by song rating:

SGT Pepper--cute ditty introducing the hardly-there "concept"; great production, three guitars plus bass...I give it an 8/10.

A Little Help from my friends: 9/10
Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds--justly celebrated. Though it wears thin for me after hearing it too many times...9/10

Getting Better: Love it. 10/10

Fixing a Hole: ditto. 10/10

She's Leaving Home Sentimental old folks music young kids can dig. 10/10

Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite! A triumph of production-over songwriting: song itself I give a six or seven but the production makes it a 10/10

Within you without you...I've tried so hard to like this song. Sometimes it works for me. 6/10

When Im 64--cute but gets old...7/10

Lovely Rita: the most underrated song on this album: 10/10

Good Morning Good Morning: Like the lyrics alot...not a big fan of the melody. The production sounds almost too "fluffy" for the arrangement. Drums kick ass. Rockin' McCartney guitar solo. 8/10.

SGT. Pepper(reprise)--hardest rockin' ever at the time for the fab four. Still...what's with McCartney and reprises?  8/10

A Day in the Life: unbeatable 10/10

[MBE]

SGT Pepper--Good guitar work, nicely different. Not a great song but fun. 8/10.

A Little Help from my friends: I like this song better then I used to. The lyrics to me are just ok but "the turn out the light: joke is funny. Ringo sings it fine for Ringo The production is very nice but melodically again just ok I like the Beach Boys version better. Honest 7/10

Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds--The mono mix has a great echo. The intro is very spooky in a good way. A lot going on musically and it actually rocks 9/10

Getting Better: Nice happy song. Good production and solid vocals.  8/10

Fixing a Hole: Another cute Mccartney ditty. Has some good changes, lyrically quite good. 8/10

She's Leaving Home I never really liked this one. Good lyrics but too mor for me. It is pretty enough and John'sanswering lines are well crafted. Just not my taste 6/10

Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite! A great production, and good vocals. It's a great record as opposed to a great song 8/10

Within you without you...I like much of George's work but this and Blue Jay Way have always bored me. The lyrics are worth reading but the melody let's it down. 5/10

When Im 64--Ok I think this is why I don't like this album as much as everything they did before. Really goofy 5/10

Lovely Rita:Redeams the side for me. It's just a gerat rock song. The end is really cool and it has wonderful harmony. The only song on the album I would rank among my favorites. Paul could sing convincing rock 10/10

Good Morning Good Morning: A little slight, but it does rock. John sounds good here, nicely sardonic 8/10.

SGT. Pepper(reprise)--I kind of like it, it is a early hard rock song. A nice inclusion, It just doesn't work out of context 8/10
A Day in the Life: Never thought it was a huge deal. Almost too arty. Some nice melodies and transitions. I don't really love it but it is well done. 7/10

[TdHabib]

I love it--it's a magical album to me and one of a handful (ten or twelve) of albums that are nearly perfect. Abbey Road and it are my favorite Beatles albums, but Abbey Road is a completely different beast altogether.

[smile-holland]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Pepper is great, and I love it, but it is overhyped, rather than overrated.

I agree. Like it, but somehow I'd rather listen to Rubber Soul, Revolver or Abbey Road. Matter of taste...

[Dancing Bear]

The 'Pepper backlash' really annoys me. Just like the 'Revolver is the great one' hype. Both have not so great songs. Every album does, even Pet Sounds. 

I expected a Pet Sounds backlash this decade, but it never came. Though it's not the hip thing to dig anymore, like in the 90s, I guess it never got as pop culture common ground as Pepper to deserve the king-has-no-clothes full on attack.

[matt-zeus]

I like  Side one of Pepper, though 3 McCartney songs in a row should be divided up by a Lennon one (Not that I dislike Macca at all, he dominates the album). Side Two is less good for me, I love 'Lovely Rita' but am not too keen on 'Good Morning' or 'Within you without you'. 'Penny Lane' and 'Strawberry Fields' would strengthen the album.

[The Heartical Don]

Guitars are on the way out.

[the captain]

Track 1, Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. Inexplicably, the gimmick works. Virtually any other song that begins (or ends, or features) with sound effects would piss me off. And maybe this is me being (the dreaded) nostalgic: after all, I've known this album my whole life. But I don't mind them at all. On to the song itself, it's wonderful. Again, it's a gimmick, but I don't care a bit: a song doesn't have to be touching or deep. A song is just a song, and this one is great fun, even if it wouldn't really make much sense if not part of this album. I love the guitar sounds. I love the horn arrangement even more--probably most of all, in fact. I've always loved the bridge with its horns, then leading into Paul doing that great yell-verse toward the end. And the segue into "With a Little Help From My Friends" is absolute pop genius.

[the captain]

Track 2, With a Little Help From My Friends. A great song. Flat-out classic. The reason I say so is in part that it's inescapable: the melody will not be stopped! But what I truly love is the arrangement touches. Verse one, just Ringo. Then after the first chorus it's Ringo and band in call-and-response. Then it's band and Ringo in reverse call-and-response. I LOVE it! The bridge is wonderful. I'm a huge fan of that kind of piano-and-guitar on every beat (kind of BW's piano style, clunking away as a background). The bass in the bridge is also fantastic.

[the captain]

Track 3, Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds. Not among my absolute favorites, but it's hard to knock it, too. My favorite part is probably the prechorus bass line and the drums leading into the chorus. I also love the swirling guitar in the chorus itself, not to mention the high harmonies. The arpeggio in the verse is also great.

[the captain]

Track 4, Getting Better. Honestly, this is perfect for me. The intro guitar, then the guitar-and-piano unison, the background vocals, the harmony vocals, the melody, the bass part ... all of it. Perfect. The misogynistic lyrics in the bridge are probably the only thing that bugs these modern ears. I love it otherwise. And musically I adore that bit, too.

[donald]

I didn't like this album because it was so revolutionary.  Did you know there were secret messages throughout this piece of work?  For example, I have it from good authority that the song Lucy in The Sky With Diamonds was about DRUGS!

Before you laugh, consider this:  Lucy (L) SKY (S)  Diamonds (D)...yess thats right, LSD!  The shame of the 60's.

And there are all sorts of hidden meaning in the album cover and the military uniforms worn by the band.

I could go on and on.  But suffice it to say;  Kids, don't go near this one.   Stick to the Beach Boys, a clean and wholesome American band.

Just say NO to drugs!

[lance]

Clean and wholesome...hahhahahahahahahahha.

[Alex]

I like Pepper, but I listened to it so much that it overstayed its welcome in my CD and mp3 players. Now if you want to talk about a great Beatles album, I'd have to go with Please Please Me!

[lance]

At this point I prefer their pre-pepper stuff. Their early stuff had an energy and a freshness to it that just really speaks to me. I didn't use to feel that way, I do now. In fact, I'm listening to With the Beatles as I type. They did so many styles, then mashed it all together on the originals.

[donald]

I too like the earlier stuff.  Erly to Middle stuff actually.  My favorite is the British HELP album.  Chock full of good tunes.

Same as with the Beach Boys...I like the 65-66 era stuff best.

What was it Elvis Costello said about his favorite BB era?  After it was silly and goofy but before it got weird and spooky?

[lance]

I dont know, but, strangely, Help is probably my least favorite of their albums, despite the great songs on it. I like all their stuff, but I guess sixty three and sixty four is where they really grab me. They do have more filler in the early days--SGT Pepper is a better album than any of their first few..but the good songs are really something special for me.

[donald]

My favorite of the early ones is Beatles 65

[the captain]

Track 5, Fixing a Hole. (Sorry, mikeyj ... sort of forgot I was supposed to opine on each track.) This is one of my lesser tracks on the album, but I do like it. It's just not tremendously energetic, not especially gorgeous, not particularly anything for me. What I do love is Ringo's drumming on it, and the recorded sound of the drums: just little things like him opening the hi-hat here and there, and how he's nailing that almost lazy groove. I like the background vocals, too. (The oohs.) The electric guitar sound is nice.

[the captain]

Track 6, She's Leaving Home. I need to be in the right mood, but it's a nice piece of work. The string arrangement is nice, so credit to Mr. Martin there. (Especially "walking" cellos starting at about 1:17, and into that great, legato line at about 1:25.) I love John's voice on the "we gave her most of our lives" part. I can see why someone wouldn't like this. I just don't feel the same. Oh, this is one where I am not a big fan of the background vocals: as good of singers as the Beatles were in spots, the high part on the "sheeeeee ... is leaviiiiiiiiiing ... aaaaaaahhhh" just isn't really great for me.