The vision - the hypothetical final beach boys album

[elnombre]

Hey cats,
I hope you don't mind me getting on my personal soapbox here. I'm a long time lurker, recent poster, and just couldn't fit these opinions into other threads, so please bear with me.

I was thrilled when Brian said recently (I may be paraphrasing, hopefully you guys know what I'm referring to), that he had no intention of reuniting with 'The Beach Boys' in their current lineup. I believe that critical and commercial opinion has proven Brian has overcome the odds, in not only outselling and outproducing Mike Love's band, but in doing so without the considerable clout of T.B.B. name, given what is in all likelihood the final stretch of his amazing career, a storybook ending. While Love's career has spiraled ever downward into the nostalgia circuit, that he was basically willing to consign The Beach Boys to since 1965, Brian is still considered a productive and vital artist, as well as a big live draw.

As a fan of the band as a whole, it is distressing to see things the way they are: a band masquerading as The Beach Boys, with none of the Wilson brothers, playing State Fairs and sullying the name of the original group that spawned them - ensuring that an entire generation grows up thinking 'The Beach Boys' means 68 year old guys in bad Hawaiian shirts. Meanwhile Brian's band, who astonishingly recreate the original band's sound, tour under only their leader's name. Brian writes amazing new pieces like 'Midnight's Another Day', but unfortunately, due to such superficialities as legal issues, this beautiful music can't be seen as the same storybook ending to The Beach Boys career.

Ask yourself, given the choice, if they were still alive, who would Dennis and Carl side with? Mike and Bruce's 'The Beach Boys' touring the old surf sound, or Brian Wilson's band performing a mix of new and classic material to huge acclaim?

I know I'm in no position to make the assumption, but I really do believe Carl and Dennis would be thrilled to sing on a song like 'Midnight', and to have been by their brother's side when he finally completed SMiLE.
But of course, Brian is better off this way. What can Mike & Bruce offer him now? Nothing. Mike had The Beach Boys name to bandy around, and what did he produce with it? 'Summer In Paradise' and endless oldies tours. That said, Mike and Bruce's contributions to the band, at its height, are no less valid. But should 'Summer In Paradise' and 'Stars And Stripes Vol.1' be the parting statements of one of the greatest bands in the history of rock n' roll?

Surely we can all agree, it shouldn't.

The Beach Boys vaults have hundreds....maybe thousands of hours of unreleased material. Why oh why, can't someone....someone with great taste, an idea of the band's sensibilities, and the flow and nuances that make a great album, put together one last beautiful Beach Boys send off out of those tracks? Out of all of those heavily bootlegged, but officially unreleased songs, how can there not be 12 songs that would make up a wonderful, final Beach Boys album?

What would you include? What would it be called?

I know such a project is unlikely to ever happen, but I thought this would be a good opportunity for fans to put together their own final classic BB album, to share amongst ourselves, if only to bypass the injustice of 'Summer In Paradise' being the last official album by one of the world's greatest groups.

If you've read all of this, have a cookie.

Cheers,
Elnombre

[Jason]

I skipped to the bottom because this thread's been done to death.

[elnombre]

I skipped to the bottom because this thread's been done to death.

If you can't be bothered reading what I've written, why bother replying?

[Jay]

I skipped to the bottom because this thread's been done to death.

Show some respect. You didn't have to click on this topic if  you've read all of this before.

[SloopJohnB]

I skipped to the bottom because this thread's been done to death.

Show some respect. You didn't have to click on this topic if  you've read all of this before.

Ditto.

And on a more on-topic note, I was listening to "Real Love" and "Free As A Bird" (from the Beatles' Anthology) the other day and I wondered what the results of a similar process could be with the Beach Boys. Dig some demos or solo songs, add the remaining Beach Boys' voices on them (I can't imagine a BB album without Carl's voice), add maybe a couple of new songs written especially from the album, and there you go. An appropriate finale to the BB story. This shouldn't be very hard to do - they've more or less already done it with "Loop De Loop Flip Flop"!

Ah well, dreaming doesn't hurt. 

[Sheriff John Stone]

elnombre, that's a well-written post, but, I have to take exception to some of your thoughts.

"Brian is still considered a productive and vital artist, as well as a big live draw."
Really? Vital? The success of BWPS was based on the strength(s) of songs that were written, produced, and recorded 40 years ago. I describe Getting In Over My Head and What I Really Want For Christmas a lot of ways, but "vital" would not be among them. And, is Brian a big live draw? I read some reports from his recent tours that he was playing to less than sold out audiences. Could lack of ticket sales be one of the reasons he has been spending so much time touring OUTSIDE of the U.S.? And, is that why more "hits" are being included in his sets?

"It's distressing to see things the way they are....ensuring that an entire generation grows up thinking the "Beach Boys" means 68 year old guys in bad Hawaiian shirts"
It's not a stretch to make that same comparison to Brian Wilson. I won't get into the wardrobe thing, but, the generation of people who are "experiencing" Brian Wilson today (and I include myself in that group), are only seeing a shell of the Brian Wilson that first drew us to The Beach Boys. That opinion has been expressed (in documentaries) by people closer to BW than the casual fan. Yes, there are some things to celebrate about the "recent" Brian, but, on a whole, the image that people are getting of Brian today, and will carry, is one of a damaged man and artist.

"Ask yourself, given the choice, if they were still alive, who would Dennis and Carl side with?"
Probably touring with Mike and Bruce, playing "Catch A Wave", singing "You Are So Beautiful" and collecting a steady pay check.

"What can Mike and Bruce offer him (Brian) now?"
Better lead and background vocals on some of Brian's songs than Brian himself. Mike and Bruce might even have a song or two to contribute to a new BW or BB album so Brian wouldn't have to use half of his albums re-recording his own songs.

"What would you include, what would it be called?"
I've gone on record several times - to the dismay of many on this board - that I would like to see Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce, and Dave go to Al's barn and record a new Beach Boys' album. I don't think any of them have enough to say, artistically, to fill an entire album. TLOS MIGHT be an exception. Postcards From California is what I'm talking about. Actually, I'm bored with the solo stuff....

[Aegir]

And on a more on-topic note, I was listening to "Real Love" and "Free As A Bird" (from the Beatles' Anthology) the other day and I wondered what the results of a similar process could be with the Beach Boys. Dig some demos or solo songs, add the remaining Beach Boys' voices on them (I can't imagine a BB album without Carl's voice), add maybe a couple of new songs written especially from the album, and there you go. An appropriate finale to the BB story. This shouldn't be very hard to do - they've more or less already done it with "Loop De Loop Flip Flop"!

Ah well, dreaming doesn't hurt. 

Isn't that kind of what happened with Soul Searchin'?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

They should redo some of the stuff hidden deep in the vaults that haven't even been booted, and they maybe could even get away with passing it off as newly written material. But only if it's Brian's band doing the backing, not the guys behind Mike and Useless.

[Aegir]

Save Brian's band for his solo stuff. Al's band would be the best for Beach Boys studio recordings.

And I happen to think Randell Kirsch is a great acoustic guitar player from the two recordings of such I've heard.

[Alex]

"It's distressing to see things the way they are....ensuring that an entire generation grows up thinking the "Beach Boys" means 68 year old guys in bad Hawaiian shirts"
It's not a stretch to make that same comparison to Brian Wilson. I won't get into the wardrobe thing, but, the generation of people who are "experiencing" Brian Wilson today (and I include myself in that group), are only seeing a shell of the Brian Wilson that first drew us to The Beach Boys. That opinion has been expressed (in documentaries) by people closer to BW than the casual fan. Yes, there are some things to celebrate about the "recent" Brian, but, on a whole, the image that people are getting of Brian today, and will carry, is one of a damaged man and artist.

"Ask yourself, given the choice, if they were still alive, who would Dennis and Carl side with?"
Probably touring with Mike and Bruce, playing "Catch A Wave", singing "You Are So Beautiful" and collecting a steady pay check.

Quite cynical. aren't we?


Maybe Carl would be touring with Mike and Bruce, but I could picture Dennis siding with Brian. The again, this is all just useless speculation. How are we to know what they would actually do. If the Dennis and Carl were still alive, I'd love to see the Wilsons and Al all kick Mike and Bruce out of the group, bring back Blondie and Ricky, maybe even add Dave Marks, and tour around playing Pet Sounds and SMiLE material plus Sunflower/Surf's Up/CATP/Holland/POB/Love You-era stuff. They could also get the Dragon Brothers, Bobby Figeroa, Ed Carter, Billy Hinsche, Charles Lloyd, Carli Munoz, etc. to back them. Jack Reiley could be their manager once again.
I can dream, can't I?

[mikeyj]

Maybe Carl would be touring with Mike and Bruce, but I could picture Dennis siding with Brian. The again, this is all just useless speculation. How are we to know what they would actually do. If the Dennis and Carl were still alive, I'd love to see the Wilsons and Al all kick Mike and Bruce out of the group, bring back Blondie and Ricky, maybe even add Dave Marks, and tour around playing Pet Sounds and SMiLE material plus Sunflower/Surf's Up/CATP/Holland/POB/Love You-era stuff. They could also get the Dragon Brothers, Bobby Figeroa, Ed Carter, Billy Hinsche, Charles Lloyd, Carli Munoz, etc. to back them. Jack Reiley could be their manager once again.
I can dream, can't I?

Hmmm... if only we can figure out how to invent a time machine.....

Seriously though that would be cool though. And yes I have to agree with you. I think maby Carl might've sided with Mike+Bruce but I doubt Dennis would. And I think if Dennis+Brian sided with each other, I think eventually Carl would side with his brothers. Seeing that atleast Brian is still being creative whereas Mike+Bruce are just doing nothing creatively for the band. Still as you say, it's all just pointless speculation

[Aegir]

I don't think Brian would've ever gone solo to the extent that he did if Carl and Dennis were still alive and in the Beach Boys.

[Rocker]

I don't think Brian would've ever gone solo to the extent that he did if Carl and Dennis were still alive and in the Beach Boys.

Exactly ! Even in '96 Brian was drifting back to the Beach Boys.

[The Shift]

Not sure that lumping Bruce in with Mike like that is strictly fair. Seems to me that Bruce is with the "Beach Boys" cos that's all that's left of the band he once worked with, and it provides him with an income doing what he likes doing -  playing music for folks like us.

I reckon that if there was a creative, disciplined band featuring Los Bros Wilsons, that earned him an income, and they invited him in, he'd jump at the chance.

[Sheriff John Stone]

"It's distressing to see things the way they are....ensuring that an entire generation grows up thinking the "Beach Boys" means 68 year old guys in bad Hawaiian shirts"
It's not a stretch to make that same comparison to Brian Wilson. I won't get into the wardrobe thing, but, the generation of people who are "experiencing" Brian Wilson today (and I include myself in that group), are only seeing a shell of the Brian Wilson that first drew us to The Beach Boys. That opinion has been expressed (in documentaries) by people closer to BW than the casual fan. Yes, there are some things to celebrate about the "recent" Brian, but, on a whole, the image that people are getting of Brian today, and will carry, is one of a damaged man and artist.

"Ask yourself, given the choice, if they were still alive, who would Dennis and Carl side with?"
Probably touring with Mike and Bruce, playing "Catch A Wave", singing "You Are So Beautiful" and collecting a steady pay check.

Quite cynical. aren't we?

Actually, I'm quite serious.

If you're reading the current thread(s), people are posting that Dennis didn't want the pressures of a solo career, couldn't handle the demands of a solo tour, sabotaged his album, and his voice was shot. So, where else would he go? And, most importantly, what makes you think Brian - or Melinda - would even want him around, with the new life they have built for themselves.

Carl, people are posting, just wanted to keep the peace, didn't have the drive anymore, and was coasting. Do you think Carl would've "quit" the Beach Boys - again?

There's two important factors that would've determined if Dennis and/or Carl would've left Mike to follow Brian. First, their relationship with Brian and Melinda. Much like Carnie and Wendy's relationship (or lack of) with Brian, we don't know a lot of the details. Do we really know much about Dennis and Carl's relationship with Brian post 1980. Did they even communicate with each other outside of the Beach Boys? I'd like to know more.

Second, and nobody can argue this. It's all about the money. It always was and always will be. And that's why I think Dennis and Carl would've stayed in the Beach Boys. Income! There was always going to be a full set of Beach Boys' concerts - and checks. You can't say the same about Brian's touring schedule. And, would Brian be able to afford Dennis and Carl? Dennis and Carl would've had to CHOOSE. Follow the money....

[Dancing Bear]

Al would have to go solo, and who knows, he could have built a huge soft-rock career following Jimmy Buffet style. Then the guy would be so bigger than the struggling Wilson Brothers Band and the bankrupt Mike's Celebration, that he would gently hire them all to be in his backing band. He could call them the Sloop John Boys. In a good day he would let the boys have a lead vocal or two in the set.

Now, back to reality... 

[the captain]

Now, back to reality... 

Not the strong suit of this board.

[Awesoman]

The Beach Boys vaults have hundreds....maybe thousands of hours of unreleased material. Why oh why, can't someone....someone with great taste, an idea of the band's sensibilities, and the flow and nuances that make a great album, put together one last beautiful Beach Boys send off out of those tracks? Out of all of those heavily bootlegged, but officially unreleased songs, how can there not be 12 songs that would make up a wonderful, final Beach Boys album?

While I'm all for hearing stuff from the vaults (and unreleased live material), I have to say that some of the material that has leaked out on bootlegs does not bode well for a quality album.  A lot of the music they recorded went unreleased for a reason: it wasn't very good. 

[Reggie Dunbar]

Now, back to reality... 

Not the strong suit of this board.

So true, that would be speculation.

[Smilin Ed H]

The last BB album should've been the best stuff off MIU (2 or 3 songs), the best stuff of LA (4 or 5 songs), plus some of the unreleased stuff from that period.  After that, it's almost all embarrassing and synthy drum patterns.

[southbay]

"It's distressing to see things the way they are....ensuring that an entire generation grows up thinking the "Beach Boys" means 68 year old guys in bad Hawaiian shirts"
It's not a stretch to make that same comparison to Brian Wilson. I won't get into the wardrobe thing, but, the generation of people who are "experiencing" Brian Wilson today (and I include myself in that group), are only seeing a shell of the Brian Wilson that first drew us to The Beach Boys. That opinion has been expressed (in documentaries) by people closer to BW than the casual fan. Yes, there are some things to celebrate about the "recent" Brian, but, on a whole, the image that people are getting of Brian today, and will carry, is one of a damaged man and artist.

"Ask yourself, given the choice, if they were still alive, who would Dennis and Carl side with?"
Probably touring with Mike and Bruce, playing "Catch A Wave", singing "You Are So Beautiful" and collecting a steady pay check.

Quite cynical. aren't we?

Actually, I'm quite serious.

If you're reading the current thread(s), people are posting that Dennis didn't want the pressures of a solo career, couldn't handle the demands of a solo tour, sabotaged his album, and his voice was shot. So, where else would he go? And, most importantly, what makes you think Brian - or Melinda - would even want him around, with the new life they have built for themselves.

Carl, people are posting, just wanted to keep the peace, didn't have the drive anymore, and was coasting. Do you think Carl would've "quit" the Beach Boys - again?

There's two important factors that would've determined if Dennis and/or Carl would've left Mike to follow Brian. First, their relationship with Brian and Melinda. Much like Carnie and Wendy's relationship (or lack of) with Brian, we don't know a lot of the details. Do we really know much about Dennis and Carl's relationship with Brian post 1980. Did they even communicate with each other outside of the Beach Boys? I'd like to know more.

Second, and nobody can argue this. It's all about the money. It always was and always will be. And that's why I think Dennis and Carl would've stayed in the Beach Boys. Income! There was always going to be a full set of Beach Boys' concerts - and checks. You can't say the same about Brian's touring schedule. And, would Brian be able to afford Dennis and Carl? Dennis and Carl would've had to CHOOSE. Follow the money....

I think another factor that leads me to believe that Carl would sided with Mike is his desire to not let Mike further sully the Beach Boys name and brand (not that he didn't give on occasion, as we all know).  He saw the BB's as HIS family's band, and I think that (with the $ issue) was a big reason why he stayed until his passing. 

[NightHider]

I don't think Brian would've ever gone solo to the extent that he did if Carl and Dennis were still alive and in the Beach Boys.

Exactly ! Even in '96 Brian was drifting back to the Beach Boys.

Right, and he still is.  Don't forget that it was Brian who brought a CD with a music track and handed it to Mike at the rooftop reunion asking him to write lyrics for it  to which Mike replied, while handing it back, "I'd prefer to start from scratch." 

So what's the holdup?? Oh yeah, the same problem this band has ALWAYS had(J. Rieley aside), very poor management....

[elnombre]

I don't think Brian would've ever gone solo to the extent that he did if Carl and Dennis were still alive and in the Beach Boys.

Exactly ! Even in '96 Brian was drifting back to the Beach Boys.

Right, and he still is.  Don't forget that it was Brian who brought a CD with a music track and handed it to Mike at the rooftop reunion asking him to write lyrics for it  to which Mike replied, while handing it back, "I'd prefer to start from scratch." 

So what's the holdup?? Oh yeah, the same problem this band has ALWAYS had(J. Rieley aside), very poor management....

Very interesting! Where did you hear this?

[Aegir]

Mike said it in an interview.

[NightHider]

I don't think Brian would've ever gone solo to the extent that he did if Carl and Dennis were still alive and in the Beach Boys.

Exactly ! Even in '96 Brian was drifting back to the Beach Boys.

Right, and he still is.  Don't forget that it was Brian who brought a CD with a music track and handed it to Mike at the rooftop reunion asking him to write lyrics for it  to which Mike replied, while handing it back, "I'd prefer to start from scratch." 

So what's the holdup?? Oh yeah, the same problem this band has ALWAYS had(J. Rieley aside), very poor management....

Very interesting! Where did you hear this?

I recall reading it in a Bruce interview shortly after the "RR"....