2006 Mike Love interview

[NightHider]

I came across this interview today on a BB blog and thought to share:

Looking Back With (Mike) Love

By Michael DeMartin

Having read most of the Brian and Beach Boys books, there is always the heroes and villains angle, which I guess makes for a good drama. True, the Beach Boys have had their problems with each other over the years, but I have to believe they will always have a bond after having been through so much. It was nice to see Brian, Mike, Al and Bruce last month on top of the Capitol building accepting their latest platinum records and bantering about. In fact, Brian didn’t discount rumors about the guys maybe doing something together in the near future – perhaps a live performance when Brian accepts a major award in London this coming November?

Mike Love has long been presented as the villain in many tales, so I have to admit I had a little trepidation when I had the opportunity to talk with him at length a few weeks ago. Here’s how it went:

Mike asked me what my last name was and I told him DeMartin. I was taken aback a little when he asked if it had an “o” at the end of it originally, and I told him it actually had an “i” at the end of it. I told him my Italian grandfather changed it so he could get a job. Immediately, Mike started singing “Get A Job.” Mike then asked me what I did for a living and I told him I owned a small design firm and we did a good amount of work for recording artists and labels. Mike asked me who I would recommend to do the album cover for his next project, and before you know it, I was invited to see him after his “Good Morning America” appearance the following day in New York City. He then asked me how much it would cost.

Mike’s new album is called “Mike Love (Not War)” which I have to admit is a clever title, but Mike has always been good with words. He told me the new album “rocks like a mother------” so we’ll have to see what’s up with that.

Talking about Pet Sounds, Mike said his 10-year old daughter’s favorite song is “Wouldn’t It Be Nice” which shows “the immortal, everlasting appeal of that song” and truer words have never been spoken. Mike was given a co-writer’s credit about ten years ago, along with Brian and Tony Asher and I asked him if it was because of his “Good Night, Baby/Sleep Tight Baby” refrain at the end of the song. He said actually he had a hand in writing the bridge of the song, which certainly is a classic. Mike talked about the “fabulous” intro and couldn’t compliment Brian enough during our talk. He did moan a little bit about the “27 passes” at singing the harmonies for "Wouldn't It Be Nice" and it was at that time that he started calling Brian “Dog Ears” because Brian heard every little thing. Mike said that it went beyond being perfect and that Brian was looking for “abstract, mystical overtones or something” and you can hear it in the “fantastically executed harmonies.” Mike’s a talkative guy and his explanation about the Beach Boys harmonies was quite insightful – in fact you'll be hearing it for yourself one of these days ... soon.

We talked about Pet Sounds and the Beatles’ Sgt. Pepper’s album, which Mike loves, but when I asked him to name his favorite albums, he refused. He said there were so few albums where every song was great, and that he was a singles' type of guy. He said he was partial to singles, because he and Brian wrote most of the Beach Boys hits together and he had “an emotional investment” in them. He said he didn’t get credit for them for many years due to Uncle Murray and it’s given people a “disproportionate idea of what was going on with the Beach Boys creatively.” Regardless, Mike continued to be most complimentary of Brian. Mike did say he wished the Beach Boys songs had more guitar on them since he loves Rock ‘n Roll, and Jimmy Hendrix, for instance.

Mike called Chuck Berry his “lyrical mentor” and Chuck influenced Mike's writing tremendously and he cited “Fun Fun Fun” and “Be True To Your School” as examples and talked about alliteration in their lyrics. I never thought about it before, but I can see the influence. And, as much as some people might want to knock Mike, let’s face it, he did have a hand in writing some of the great American popular songs of our time – as well as singing on them. Mike talked about some of Chuck’s “lyrical vinettes” and I told him that he did the same with many of the Beach Boys songs. As great as the music was, the lyrics did create a visual image of the song and Mike loudly exclaimed “THAT'S THE IDEA!,” like a college professor lecturing a student.

Mike talked about Pet Sounds in general and each track specifically. It was more than interesting because I’ve never heard MIke talk about the album in such detail. In fact, many think Mike didn’t like the album at all in 1966, and I’ll get to that a little later. After Pet Sounds, Mike said, there was a poll in and England newspaper that had the Beach Boys ahead of the Beatles and the Rolling Stones. Mike’s voice boomed “TAKE THAT PAUL AND MICK!” like it just happened yesterday. I was waiting for a reprise of Mike’s Hall of Fame speech, but fortunately, it wasn’t forthcoming. He said he was proud of that poll because there was “nobody more creative and prolific than the Beatles." Period.

Mike talked about “Good Vibrations” and said it would last a thousand years because it was so unique and there was nothing quite like it. Can’t argue with that. Mike said the music will last forever because it was “ a contribution to life.” He talked in detail about “The Warmth Of The Sun” and how he and Brian wrote it. He talked about Brian’s "haunting melody and the melancholy harmonies". The story was about a love that’s not reciprocated. “The Love of my life/She left me one day/I cried when she said/I don’t feel the same way.” Even if you’re not a Mike Love fan, you’ve got to admit the lyric to this song is damned good. A perfect marriage of words and music.

Mike talked about being positive with his work and we talked about Stevie Wonder being a positive force, despite being born in poverty and losing his vision as a baby as the result of a hospital mishap. He said “music made our lives, maybe saved our lives.”

Mike spoke about his love for “You Still Believe In Me" and its “aspect of forgiveness.” He said everyone deserved forgiveness and it almost sounded as if he was talking about himself, and he seemed to choke up a little bit. Mike couldn’t say enough about the lyric and the arrangement. He talked about the Pet Sounds songs in general being moody (but "in a good way") and Brian outdoing himself. Mike talked about Pet Sounds being about feelings and dealing with them and how the album was such a stretch from the surfing and girls themes they had sung about previously. Mike couldn’t say enough about Carl singing “God Only Knows” - a “stellar performance.” He would have liked to have heard Luther Vandross sing it, but was glad Neil Diamond did.

“I Just Wasn’t Made For These Times” was “so Brian Wilson and should probably be his theme song.” Then, Mike talked about how he came up with the name for the album Pet Sounds and its double-entendre. He said everything was great about the album except for the cover. He said the Beach Boys were not as savvy as the Beatles about actually caring about their album covers - certainly not like Paul McCartney "masterminding" the “Sgt. Peppers” cover.

Everything was going great and Mike was terrific, but I had to ask THE question. I told him that there were a lot of fans who saw him as the villain in the Pet Sounds story and that the word was he was less than thrilled with the new direction of the music and that he didn't want to "f--- with the formula." I could hear his blood pressure rise and see his cap pop off his head through the phone and he got, well, kind of angry to say the least. He interrupted me to tell me “that is a bunch of crap that I didn’t like Pet Sounds.” He said he’s never said anything negative about the album and the only thing he could criticize about the album was it's shlocky artwork.

Mike said he was into meditation while hangers-on were into drugs and it created a “them versus us” situation and that the people around Brian resented Mike. He said stories about him not liking Pet Sounds were “so untrue, so unkind, so petty and so malicious.” I would have to think this was true: anyone with half a musical brain has got to know what a work of art Pet Sounds is. Also, people talk about Pet Sounds being such a commercial disappointment, but I think most groups would dearly love to have a Top 10 album and three hit singles off of it. But, that’s just my feeling. Mike compared his and Brian’s situation to Lennon and McCartney’s and how McCartney often doesn’t get the credit he deserves because he’s not the cool one. He said people’s opinions are not always correct and he knows what he’s done and nobody can take that away from him.

Mike blamed Capitol Records for their lack of enthusiasm for promoting the album and that it took about 30 years for it to finally go platinum. He said it will “sell more from now on than it did from now backwards.” Mike said that if he had anything negative to say, it was probably about SMiLE, because he was not a fan of the lyrics and the shenangans that were going on at the time. He thought some of the lyrics by Van Dyke Parks were “brilliant ... I call them acid alliterations” but that he liked “words that make sense.” He said he’d ask Van Dyke what the words meant ("Over and over/The crow flies over the cornfield" for instance) and whether they would “connect with anyone out there.” Mike had a whole lot more to say about this subject – words hardcore fans would salivate over – but I’ll leave it at that.

In the end, Mike said Pet Sounds was a “collaboration, a group effort – we all slaved away in the studio and we came up with something great.” Can’t argue with that: Pet Sounds is one of the great musical achievements of our time and that cannot be denied – even by Mike Love.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Thanks for posting!

Mike had a whole lot more to say about this subject – words hardcore fans would salivate over – but I’ll leave it at that.

Ahhh... wish he wouldn't have left it at that....now I'm curious!

[Chris Brown]

Thanks for sharing that, it was a fascinating read!

It was interesting to see Mike talking about the Pet Sounds tracks in more detail, and especially his statement about having a hand in the bridge of Wouldn't It Be Nice.  I've never heard that one before, I wonder what Tony Asher might have to say about it. 

Still, definitely one of the better interviews I've read with Mike.

[MBE]

No matter what, Mike did help Wouldn't It Be Nice by at very least doing that catchy fade out. Tony Asher couldn't deny that . Funny I just posted about this in the Maharishi thread. I think much of my positive thinking about Mike is backed up here, and I am impresed that he still saw some merit in Van Dyke even after the way Parks trashed him in the press a few years back. When I saw Mike last year with the Chicago pops his version of Here Today was amazingly good.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I honestly believe that Mike was capable of writing better lyrics for Pet Sounds then Tony Asher. I mean, if you look at Warmth of the Sun, and the Today and Wild Honey albums. Of course, he probably would've tried to push for the lyrics on Summer Days/Nights. I guess Brian would rather find another lyrisist then have to tell Mike what to write.

[John]

Seems fair enough. In Mike's defence, I've never seen an interview with him with anything but praise for Pet Sounds.

[MBE]

There isn't one credible source that says he didn't like Pet Sounds. Dennis was asked about it in 1976 and he says they all loved it. He would certainly have put Mike down if it was true.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I like how Mike is straight up honest about not liking more abstract lyrics and liking a poppier sound yet admits it's his own personal bias.

Where did the myth that he hated Pet Sounds come from, anyway?

[Chris Brown]

Where did the myth that he hated Pet Sounds come from, anyway?

Brian and Tony Asher...I don't think anyone has ever said that he "hated" it, but that he questioned the direction it took the band.  I know that Asher has said many times that he felt unwanted at sessions, and that not everyone in the band liked the lyrics.

So really I don't think that he hated Pet Sounds at all, but rather he (and probably others in the group) just had some initial reservations about it, and ultimately warmed up to it.

[mikeyj]

Well of course there's the "don't f*** with the formula" quote that always seems to be used. And I can understand Mike's concern. But in my personal opinion, Mike knew that Pet Sounds was an amazing piece of work (when he first heard the backing tracks etc..) but I think he was just annoyed that he wasn't writing at all with Brian on the album (besides I'm Waiting For The Day which doesn't count as its from 1964 and I know There's An Answer which features minor lyrical changes by Mike).

And as for saying that it would've been cool if Mike wrote the lyrics on Pet Sounds, I don't disagree that they probably would've been good. But I don't think there is ONE thing at ALL wrong with the lyrics. Tony Asher did a superb job and I'm glad it turned out the way it did. I mean who are we to question Brian's choice of collaborator? I mean really most of the classic Brian Wilson tunes all have decent lyrics by various people. Eg: Roger Christian on Don't Worry, Baby, Gary Usher on In My Room etc..

As someone said on this board once, I don't think Mike could've written the lyrics to Surf's Up just like Van Dyke couldn't have written lyrics to I Get Around. Point being is that I think Brian almost always chose the right people to write the lyrics for him if he needed it.

[John]

I think people try and "black-and-white" his so-called hatred of SMiLE into "Oh, he hated everything progressive that Brian did!"
I think he was fine with Pet Sounds except maybe that as the non-instrument playing singer - he was pushed into a corner because he doesn't sing it, and maybe felt that even though it wasn't his place to sing it - since he was used to singing his own lyrics and therefore his own likes or preoccupations - it still made him a fifth wheel. I can't think of anyone who'd like to lose their status to that degree. He's the lead singer who sings, like two full songs and bits of a couple of others. I'd be annoyed and feel marginalised, but Mike seems to have accepted it, for the good of the group.

And that's admirable.

I can also see his side of the SMiLE thing: back in the day - like, two years before - they recorded songs - backing track first then in to do the vocals. And it took a week or whatever. Now Brian's - let's face it - wasting time recording them grunting like swine. Eight months or whatever and next to no product. Losing the momentum they had. Letting all their rivals steal a march on them while they're making silly noises. I'd be pissed off, I know that.
If Brian had have collected his thoughts and recorded ten or twelve SMiLE songs as finished articles, within a reasonable time, I don't think Mike would have any problems with it really, especially if it was a commercial success. But taking eight months instead of eight days, with no end in sight? No lead vocals for Mike? It's easy to take the retrospective hindsight 20/20 view, but at the time, I can see why it bothered him.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I can also see his side of the SMiLE thing: back in the day - like, two years before - they recorded songs - backing track first then in to do the vocals. And it took a week or whatever. Now Brian's - let's face it - wasting time recording them grunting like swine. Eight months or whatever and next to no product. Losing the momentum they had. Letting all their rivals steal a march on them while they're making silly noises. I'd be pissed off, I know that.
If Brian had have collected his thoughts and recorded ten or twelve SMiLE songs as finished articles, within a reasonable time, I don't think Mike would have any problems with it really, especially if it was a commercial success. But taking eight months instead of eight days, with no end in sight? No lead vocals for Mike? It's easy to take the retrospective hindsight 20/20 view, but at the time, I can see why it bothered him.

Very good point.  Considering how quickly recording was done in those days, I'd react the same way too if I was spending months on something with no progress.  And, if I'd ask someone what the lyrics that they wrote mean, and they don't know   either, I'd flip out too.

[Wilsonista]

Van knew what the lyrics meant.  He wrote them.  Why was it his job to have to explain the lyrics? That was Brian's responsibility, IMO.

[Pretty Funky]

Van knew what the lyrics meant.  He wrote them.  Why was it his job to have to explain the lyrics? That was Brian's responsibility, IMO.

How would Brian know what VDPs lyrics meant? Of course it was VDPs job to explain them to the vocalists. Why would it not be?

[Wilsonista]

Brian certainly knew what Surf's Up meant (judging from the Siegel piece). Brian was in the band, not Van.  Brian, whether it was intentional or not pitted Mike against  Van Dyke.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Van knew what the lyrics meant.  He wrote them.  Why was it his job to have to explain the lyrics? That was Brian's responsibility, IMO.

Brian certainly knew what Surf's Up meant (judging from the Siegel piece). Brian was in the band, not Van.  Brian, whether it was intentional or not pitted Mike against  Van Dyke.

Which would mean something if Mike had gone ballistic over Surf's Up lyrics. The lyric in question came from Cabinessence, according to *everybody*, including Mike and Van Dyke.  Besides, Brian did *not* write the lyrics, Parks did, so of course Mike is going to ask Parks what the lyric meant, to which he responded "I Don't Know".

[Wilsonista]

That doesn't mean Parks didn't actually know. For whatever reason, he felt intimidated by Mike and copped out a BS response.  Doesn't change the fact that Brian pitte one against the other and created a situation that didn't have to take place.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Well, yeah, no doubt about it. No argument there, just pointing out that Mike had a reason to be pissed when he got that response.

[Pretty Funky]

Remember the hoo haa over the Beatles 'Lucy In The Sky' and Peter, Paul and Mary's ' Puff The Magic Dragon'. Both were said to be songs about drugs.
Is it any wonder Mike asked what VDPs ' Crow' meant?

[John]

Very good point.  Considering how quickly recording was done in those days, I'd react the same way too if I was spending months on something with no progress.  And, if I'd ask someone what the lyrics that they wrote mean, and they don't know   either, I'd flip out too.

Exactly. Stuff left on the shelf for a month in 1966 sounded obsolete, stuff was developing so fast. That's the one era you can't afford to drag your heels.

Good point about Lucy and Puff The Magic Dragon. I'd at least wanna know what I'm singing, and whether it's gonna get the record banned or me investigated by the Feds a la The Kingsmen. Any of that could have been hipster drug speak as far as Mike knew.

[MBE]

I like how Mike is straight up honest about not liking more abstract lyrics and liking a poppier sound yet admits it's his own personal bias.

Where did the myth that he hated Pet Sounds come from, anyway?

Leaf and the Nick Kent NME article from 1975 spread it around most.

[MBE]

Brian or Van Dyke should have given Mike some idea of what they wanted conveyed. I doubt Mike was meek and mild when asking, but Brian as leader or Parks as a songwriter should have given him a reasonable answer. Plus the fact remains Mike DID sing the song even after all that. If Brian wasn't having the problems he was having with consintration, (which yes the drugs made worse)  I am sure he could have gotten his work done and been effective at communicating what he was after. He probably was loosing his grip on what his goals actually were for Smile

[jmc]

Just playing devil's advocate here, but what if Mike (and the others) went into the studio and gave Brian their 100% support for what ever Brian was doing? Weird or not.  Perhaps what Brian could have used was a stronger sense of support and team unity behind his ideas......thus a product may have surfaced sooner......grunting like pigs or not. Its fairly well known that Brian got very stressed out trying to get the guys to sing some of the Smile stuff. I mean lets face it, this is all on the heels of their biggest single to date - GV.

On the other hand I can see how they were confused and a little shocked about the new direction......."no,no,no....Al grunt like this....not like that."

[Aegir]

BWPS was recorded in what, four days? Two reasons:
Everyone in the band supported him
Brian wasn't on any bad drugs

[John]

Everyone in "the Brian band" was either a hired hand or a longtime acolyte. The Beach Boys were his brothers, cousin and friend. It's not possible that they'd be in awe of the guy like Darian and co. are. He's just Brian, who gave them wedgies or whatever at age eight. Look at that Dave Marks "Throw a football" quote.

The Beach Boys also didn't have thirty-odd years to be in awe of the SMiLE music, either, unlike Darian and co. It was happening there and then, in a totally different musical climate, and dragging on and on. The two circumstances can't be compared. One version of SMiLE is, in 1966, Brian's wacky new project which just keeps going with no resolution, the other, in 2004,  is the iconic, seminal, legendary, trumpets-blaring, angel-singing SMiLE, from the Golden Age of Rock.