New essay on my deep affection for Mike Love

[Aegir]

I do remember watching a video where Brian said Mike came up with the bassline. Whatever.

[the captain]

I do remember watching a video where Brian said Mike came up with the bassline. Whatever.

That could be, but I mean that in the tracking sessions, the bass is playing that part. So if Mike came up with it, it was before then. Otherwise he's taking music that is there and singing words over it. Even if that is all he did, it's cool, because Brian wasn't putting any words to that part, and that's a big part of the song. Mike just didn't write the music for it, as far as I can tell.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I guess Brian wrote the rest of the lyrics to GV? Did Mike do anything with the verses?

[SloopJohnB]

Do we know for sure who wrote the "I don't know where, but she sends me there" part? I read somewhere that it was Brian... 

[Dancing Bear]

I guess the bassline was already there and Mike suggested that it should be a vocal line. Well, that's interfering with the "music" part of the song for me. Thank God Mike also wrote the lyrics, can you imagine the THOUSANDS of threads debating if Mike deserved a songwriter credit for this one in the lawsuit?  

[mikeyj]

The 'best parts' may be the music but the lyrics are way above par as well in my opinion.  Even stuff like I Get Around, My Side of Town, I'm A Real Cool Head, I'm Makin' real Good Bread!

Come on.  That's awesome!  Almost the whole song is cleverly written "My Buddies And Me Are Gettin' Real Well Known, YEAH... The Bad Guys Know Us 'N They Leave Us Alone...."

I think people really underestimate his lyrical contribution to these songs.  Most of the songs don't even sound dated, even today something like "I'm a real cool head, I'm makin' real good bread" is pretty funny, and interesting.  If I heard a new rock song where somebody said something like that I'd think it's the hottest thing on the radio.

I always thought it was "I get around, from town to town"?

Well whatever the case it was Brian who came up with the part "I get around, from town to town, I'm a real cool head, I'm making real good bread", Mike said so in Goldmine (1992).

[Cam Mott]

The way I remember it Brian wanted the lyrics to include "Good, good, good vibes" because "vibes" was the term people used but Tony re-wrote it as "vibrations". I think people have misunderstood a comment that Brian had made but has since clarified to Brian wrote the music of the bass line but Mike authored the lyrics for the bass line.  Possibly this was done independently of Asher's lyrics and  Mike's final lyrics if my memory is correct of Brian singing/muttering those lyrics during one of the interim instru tracking sessions. *  I have never heard anyone claim other than that Mike wrote all of the lyrics [except "good, good, good vibrations"] heard on the 1966 single.

I think it is fascinating that Tony Asher says he and Brian were working on GV very early on but he thought they were going to come back to it and "finish it" and never did. Then Mike and others say Mike wrote the lyrics we know at the very last minute and Mike puts a finer point to it as being after he had received an acetate [or tape?] of the completed track. Information in Peter Carlin's book about Brian's request of VDP to re-write the lyrics of GV seem to suggest it was probably Asher's lyrics Brian was seeking a VDP re-write of instead of Mike's lyrics. Interesting anyway, if not confused by my dottering mind.

* Whoops: I think it is the "...vibrations a'happenein'...." lyrics instead heard during an interim instru tracking session [SOT 15; disc 2; track 4 @ 4:56], so maybe Tony or Brian or Mike [or even VDP] wrote those.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I think the argument just falls apart when you start naming songs Mike wrote.  "Good Vibrations".  "I Get Around".  "California Girls".  "Warmth of the Sun".  Just those few put him on par with some of the best as a songwriter. 

Mike did not write those songs. He supplied the lyrics - some dude called Wilson wrote the music. he's not a songwriter - he's a lyricist. Sometimes a damn good one. But not a songwriter in this instance. Didn't write note one of any of those songs.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Information in Peter Carlin's book about Brian's request of VDP to re-write the lyrics of GV seem to suggest it was probably Asher's lyrics Brian was seeking a VDP re-write of instead of Mike's lyrics. Interesting anyway, if not confused by my dottering mind.

Can't put my finger on where I saw it, but in an interview VDP strongly implied that he was asked to replace Mike's lyric - he specifically cited the word "excitations".

[Ron]

I think the argument just falls apart when you start naming songs Mike wrote.  "Good Vibrations".  "I Get Around".  "California Girls".  "Warmth of the Sun".  Just those few put him on par with some of the best as a songwriter. 

Mike did not write those songs. He supplied the lyrics - some dude called Wilson wrote the music. he's not a songwriter - he's a lyricist. Sometimes a damn good one. But not a songwriter in this instance. Didn't write note one of any of those songs.

Of course he wrote the lyrics.  I was speaking of his lyrical contribution, I consider a lyricist a songwriter.  Maybe you know more about it than I, though.  Let's redo it.

I Think the argument falls apart when you start naming songs Mike wrote.... lyrics for.  "Good Vibrations".  "I Get Around".  "California Girls". "Warmth of the Sun".  Just those few put him on par with some of the best as a lyricist. 

Happy now? 

[Amy B.]

Isn't this a lovely day to be caught in the rain?
You were going on your way, now you've got to remain.
Just as you were going, leaving me all at sea,
The clouds broke, they broke, and oh! what a break for me!
I can see the sun up high, though we're caught in a storm.
I can see where you and I could be cosy and warm.
Let the rain pitter-patter, cause it really doesn't matter if the skies are grey.
Long as I can be with you, it's a lovely day!

Now, _those_ are some lyrics.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Three words:

"Kiss Me, Baby"

[Dancing Bear]

I think the argument just falls apart when you start naming songs Mike wrote.  "Good Vibrations".  "I Get Around".  "California Girls".  "Warmth of the Sun".  Just those few put him on par with some of the best as a songwriter. 

Mike did not write those songs. He supplied the lyrics - some dude called Wilson wrote the music. he's not a songwriter - he's a lyricist. Sometimes a damn good one. But not a songwriter in this instance. Didn't write note one of any of those songs.

I'm all for sorting out who wrote the music and who wrote the lyrics. In fact, I wouldn't mind a 5 page essay on the subject for every line of every Beach Boys song. 

But, didn't Mike contribute the music for the line "Round, round, get around, I get around ... Yeah get around round round I get around"?

[endofposts]

So if lyricists aren't songwriters, what about all the great "songwriting teams" where someone supplied the music, the other the lyrics?   The Gershwin brothers, for instance.  I think lyrics have a lot to do with the commercial potential of a song.  They can't always sell a lousy melody, chord sequence, arrangement, or production, but they do often put a song over the top, as it were.  I don't think "California Girls" would have been as big of a hit without Mike's lyrics.  They're kind of corny and cheesy, but they're a major hook of the song.  As well as contributing to the Beach Boys' identity as a group, for better or for worse.  

It was a little odd seeing Melinda Wilson's response to someone's post last evening on the Blueboard, about why Brian has no interest in rejoining the Beach Boys (Brian actually says different things at different times on the subject).  She claimed Mike stole Brian's money by winning his songwriting lawsuit.  I know there are some songs on the list where Mike only gave a few words, but for many of them, including the biggie "California Girls," he wrote all or most of the lyrics.  And never got credit or compensation over the years for that.  Brian has said over the years he felt some guilt because of that fact.  I wonder if it's more Melinda that holds things against Mike than Brian does, but claims that it's Brian, because she wishes to interpret things that way.   I'm not a big fan of Mike by any means, but I don't know if it's that great to nurse a grudge against him, either.  Melinda even brought up Mike's speech at the Rock Hall of Fame as to why the Beach Boys shouldn't have been included in the Kennedy Center Honors.  

[Andrew G. Doe]

With two exceptions that I can think of right now*, lyricists supply the words to fit an existing melody. They may influence the melody some, but said choon predates the lyric.

[doubtless there are more but the two that spring to mind are Bernie Taupin & Roger Christian]

[endofposts]

So, how should the lyricist/tunewriter pie be split?  There are different formulas that have been worked out, is my understanding, including when Brian and his dad published his songs.  I recall reading that Gary Usher, for example, only got 25% (or at least less than 50).  Brian set his own precedent, though, when he offered Van Dyke Parks a full 50% for lyrics only, and got his dad to agree to that.   Plus threw in $5,000 as an advance for Van to buy himself a Volvo.

[DoubleVirgo]

Actually Elton wrote music to Bernie's lyrics. I wasn't there but it's in all the books and videos.

[Chris Brown]

Actually Elton wrote music to Bernie's lyrics. I wasn't there but it's in all the books and videos.

Yeah that's right...I've never heard of songwriting quite like that, where the lyrics and music are done so independently of each other.  I would guess Elton and Bernie had a 50/50 split arrangement, but I'm not totally sure.

I think the split should be done according to who has done the most work.  For instance, I would say that someone who just writes lyrics isn't entitled to as much as the person who takes the lyrics, writes the music, and a comes up with a melody.  The melody and the music are what sells...the lyrics can help with that, but if the melody is dull, you can have the best lyrics in the world and it won't matter.  I've always felt that the music was the most important thing, and the lyrics are just a necessary thing to express the musical aspect. 

[Cam Mott]

It seems to me often/if a song has both music and lyrics; one who wrote lyrics of a song would be as much a songwriter as one who wrote the music. Maybe our biases are showing when we claim one has some intrinsic importance over the other in a song?

That VDP reference to "excitiations" would be interesting; I don't think it necessarily squares with what he told Carlin [but on the other hand I can't put my hand on my copy of the book].  I did find an interview where Mike said Brian already had the track and the "good, good, good vibrations" before he wrote his lyrics.

[Wilsonista]

Actually Elton wrote music to Bernie's lyrics. I wasn't there but it's in all the books and videos.

Andrew had cited Elton/Bernie as an exception.

[Wilsonista]

It seems to me often/if a song has both music and lyrics; one who wrote lyrics of a song would be as much a songwriter as one who wrote the music. Maybe our biases are showing when we claim one has some intrinsic importance over the other in a song?

That VDP reference to "excitiations" would be interesting; I don't think it necessarily squares with what he told Carlin [but on the other hand I can't put my hand on my copy of the book].  I did find an interview where Mike said Brian already had the track and the "good, good, good vibrations" before he wrote his lyrics.

What's the first thing people connect with when they hear a pop song? They hear a catchy melody first, the music  underneath the catchy melody and then (maybe) the lyrics.  In pop music, the lyrics aren't as much a focal point as they are in, as an example folk music.  There are exceptions of course. It's intersting though that a common complaint of BB music ( by their own fans, even) is "bad lyrics".

[Andrew G. Doe]

Actually Elton wrote music to Bernie's lyrics. I wasn't there but it's in all the books and videos.

Try reading what I said again - especially the bit I marked *

[mikeyj]

The melody and the music are what sells...the lyrics can help with that, but if the melody is dull, you can have the best lyrics in the world and it won't matter.  I've always felt that the music was the most important thing, and the lyrics are just a necessary thing to express the musical aspect. 

Couldn't agree more. I have always thought unless the lyrics detract from the music then I rarely even take too much notice of them. Well I sing along etc.. but I'm not really even thinking about what I'm singing. I just get caught up in the music. As has been mentioned there are always exceptions. But basically as long as the music (melody, chords etc..) is good as well as it being sung well then I don't care for lyrics too much unless they are noticeably bad then it makes the song worse.

It's intersting though that a common complaint of BB music ( by their own fans, even) is "bad lyrics".

Of course there are some terrible lyrics in the Beach Boys catalogue but I have always thought that their lyrics generally aren't that bad. There's a few songs with great lyrics, a few with terrible lyrics and the majority being just average.

[DoubleVirgo]

Actually Elton wrote music to Bernie's lyrics. I wasn't there but it's in all the books and videos.

Andrew had cited Elton/Bernie as an exception.

Ooops.

[grillo]

Can't believe some folks are suggestin that lyric writing doesn't count as songwriting! Besides, Mike did write at least two songs (Big Sur, Everyone's in Love with You) by himself, right? Either way, if I'm at the piano coming up with some chord progression, in my mind I may have a certain melody, but often my roomate will start singing the melody HE hears along with his words, which are often better than my ideas. What I'm trying to say is that it's impossible to know exactly what influence ML had on melodies or song structure as he sat next to BW at the piano.