Midnight's Another Day

[the captain]

Sorry (actually not at all), but in my opinion, it's been: roughly 34 years since a truly great Beach Boys concert could happen, because Brian has had a great voice only through the early '70s (even if he had been touring with them then, which of course he wasn't regularly doing); roughly 24 years since a complete Beach Boys concert could happen, because of course Dennis died in 1983; and almost 10 years since any passable Beach Boys concert could happen, because Carl died in 1998.

Any reunion of the remaining members would be musically pathetic (unless they are propped up by Brian's band or another instrumental and vocal group that is far better than themselves). The only pluses are that they could make a fortune off expensive tickets and people who are just there for the nostalgia of it all could get a warm, fuzzy feeling about days that were already the stuff of nostalgia by the 1970s. I have no interest in either of those two benefits.

Someone might say there's the emotional healing, families coming together, blah blah. I say that they are grown men who can settle their own personal disputes whether or not I rah-rah them into a reunion tour. Like most of us, I don't know anything about their relationships other than what is reported in the media or spoonfed through DVDs and such anyway, so I don't pretend to be an expert there.

[Smilin Ed H]

"This song sounds flat out sad, where I usually find Brian's sad songs to be eloquently disguised under a cheerful, bouncing melody."

Like Til I Die.  How long is it before we find out that Brian contributed virtually nothing to all of 'his' songs?  Although he did, of course, contribute some lyrics to Back in the USSR while the down on their luck Beatles were slumming it in an ashram trying to find inner peace and Mia Farrow was trying to find ethnic children to adopt.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Any reunion of the remaining members would be musically pathetic (unless they are propped up by Brian's band or another instrumental and vocal group that is far better than themselves). .

Like Brian has been literally propped up?

The only pluses are that they could make a fortune off expensive tickets and people who are just there for the nostalgia of it all could get a warm, fuzzy feeling about days that were already the stuff of nostalgia by the 1970s.

Like Brian has been doing the last couple of years?

Someone might say there's the emotional healing, families coming together, blah blah. I say that they are grown men who can settle their own personal disputes whether or not I rah-rah them into a reunion tour.

Grown men physically. Emotionally? Obviously they HAVEN'T been able to settle their own personal disputes. If you read their loopy interviews, it's not hard to see why. The only place these guys seem to be able to co-exist is in a Beach Boy's musical environment.

NightHider raises some good points, points that nobody wants to touch at this time, especially because the new song is good. But the issues about what Brian has and has not written have been around for decades. People have been relieved of their duties over these issues.

At this time, I'm NOT speculating about what part(s) Brian did or didn't contribute to Midnight's Another Day. I'm just going to enjoy it for awhile. But I think you're being disingenuous (not you specifically, Luther) if you say the thoughts haven't crossed your mind.

[the captain]

SJS, I almost agree with you on all points. I do think Brian has been propped up, and basically said as much. But he doesn't need the other not-dead Beach Boys and a reunion to prop himself up--he has a band that isn't only just as good, but far better than they are. I agree on the tickets, except that they'd go up further. I agree that they don't seem from what we know to be able to get along, and was only saying that a tour isn't something for me or any music fan to prescribe as if we're psychologists treating these grown men. And frankly, I agree that there is a decent chance Brian didn't add much more than background vocals to MAD, just as he quite likely has been heavily assisted by plenty of other co-writers over the years.

If you look at what I was saying, it's simply that there is no musical need I can see for a reunion. It would be purely nostalgic, which isn't my thing at all. That's all I said. (I just was a bit gruffer because I hadn't had my dinner.)

[NightHider]

Luther, why not, everyone is out mangling the old catalouge now anyway?  And I believe Brian and Bruce have spent most of their time sitting onstage since the mid 70's, if I'm not mistaken.

Just the addition of Al's tired, hoarse, old man voice to Brian's current stage act was a HUGE difference in sound and there is no doubt Brian was a bit more 'lively' at those shows. 

Anyhoo, I was referring more to a new studio effort with the original members on some new songs, which I would prefer over Brian singing someone else's songs.  I really do think that is the direction Brian would like to go or he probably wouldn't have offered Mike a CD with a new track requesting Mike put some lyrics to it on the Capitol rooftop last year.

Like it or not, Cool Head and the 'Arbor Day Foundation' song were very nice sounding vocals from Mike and the new Brian Christmas songs were above average for 'new Brian' that was not put together "out of the can".  And who didn't love PT Cruiser?

They sounded great at the Campfire Sessions 20 years ago, sounded great on Nashville Sounds 10 years ago and I believe if they all stopped touring and let their voices recover a bit, they could sound just as great as they wanted to now for a studio effort.

Me thinks the Original Boys still have some gas left in them and that being back in the studio together would be an inspiration to Brian's songwriting and be the perfect end to a long and wayward career.

[LostArt]

As for the piano part:  Scott Bennett posted over @ the blueboard and said that he's recorded 18 songs with Brian, Scott played piano on this song, and one other, and Brian played "Beautiful, layered piano" on the other 16.

Layered piano?  Brian's traditional style has always been the old "plunk, plunk, plunk" which I much prefer to the sweeping, grandoise sound on MAD.  Makes me wonder who wrote the "layered piano" that Brian plays on the other 16...

In my own opinion, the lyrics on MAD sound more to me like someone else's version of what /who/how Brian is/must be now and seem quite contrived (to me).  This song sounds flat out sad, where I usually find Brian's sad songs to be eloquently disguised under a cheerful, bouncing melody.

I have listened to this track a dozen times now and the only part of it that sounds anything like Brian (to me)is the background harmony arrangements, which I am sure was his only involvement on this track outside singing it.  If Brian must collaborate with someone else, why not VDP?  I really think it's time to cut the Wondermints loose and work with VDP or focus all attention on a Mike Love collaboration.  His gigs with Al really sparkled and you can almost see Brian re-inspired by the presence of another BB singing with him.  It would be a great move at this point in ALL of their careers and to the Legacy of the BB's.

While MAD is a very nice song, it doesn't sound like Brian (to me, anyway) and I will hold faith for the reminder of the Lucky Old Sun setlist to include some more Brian-esque style songs...

Actually, Scott Bennett said that Brian played layered keys on 16 songs.
 
"I played piano on this and one other song out of 18 or so songs that I've worked on with Brian. He played wonderful, layered keys on all the rest.
S"

Don't know if that changes your argument or not.  I don't know how much Brian contributed to this song, and unless you have spoken with Scott Bennett or Brian, you don't know either.  Just what is a 'Brian-esque' song, anyway?  Lonely Sea?  I Get Around?  Callifornia Girls?  Fall Breaks and Back to Winter?  Busy Doin' Nothing?  Surf's Up?  'Til I Die?  It's Over Now?  Shortnin' Bread?  My point is, obviously, that Brian's covered a lot of bases, and continues to do so. 

[NightHider]

 Just what is a 'Brian-esque' song, anyway?  [/quote]

Any song that sounds like it was composed and arranged by Brian Wilson.  For example, the Arctic Tale song is immediately recognizable as a BW song in traditional BW style with traditional BW melody and piano style(plunk plunk plunk).

Sure Brian has played alot of different musical styles as in the songs you mentioned, but the difference is that all of those songs sound like Brian Wilson composotions(to me), whereas MAD does not sound anything like something Brian would compose(to me). 

MAD is  a very nice song and performed very well by all.  I hate to be one of the three posters on this thread who were not totally enthralled with the song overall but  I do always respect the opinions of others and am personally keeping my fingers crossed for the remaining tracks from LOS and the "never before performed classics".

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

For example, the Arctic Tale song is immediately recognizable as a BW song in traditional BW style with traditional BW melody and piano style(plunk plunk plunk).

To me, it sounds like an imitation. I like the song, but it's more of a "well,this is nice" as opposed to "wow!" type of thing. Now MAD on the other hand, that sounds great. I don't care who wrote/produced/whatever, THAT is a great song. Just my opinion.

[NightHider]

See, now I'm vice versa.  I think MAD sounds like an someone's imitation of Til I Die. 

[the captain]

Luther, why not, everyone is out mangling the old catalouge now anyway? 
...
Me thinks the Original Boys still have some gas left in them and that being back in the studio together would be an inspiration to Brian's songwriting and be the perfect end to a long and wayward career.

Based on your whole post (partly quoted), I guess we're just interested in different things overall, so there's no sense going back and forth on it. I hated everything about Nashville Sounds, and didn't like Cool Head... or PT Cruiser at all. They both fit into the category I was deriding in my original post, in fact. It's just an example of different tastes from different people.

I agree with you about Live Let Live, by the way. It does sound like a Brian Wilson song in many ways. I can imagine him sitting at a piano and playing it. It might be (is) a middle-of-the-road one, but it sounds like him. But so does MAD, other than the obviously non-Brian piano. Still, we already know that's Scott anyway. And I can easily imagine the same music being played in Brian's typical block chord style, and the progression itself certainly could have come from him. (I'm not saying it did. It could have.)

[buddhahat]

See, now I'm vice versa.  I think MAD sounds like an someone's imitation of Til I Die. 

Oh hell, maybe I'm naiive, but if Brian's saying he's thrilled with this song that he's composed then I'm inclined to believe that he's composed this song. Plus I agree with the other poster who points out the diversity of BW's songwriting styles, although actually this sounds just like a Brian Wilson song to me and a stellar one at that. I think you have a point that the lyrics seem slightly contrived, but it makes sense to write a song about the sad side of Brian Wilson. It makes more sense to me than him singing songs about young girls or whatever.

Fair enough if you don't like the song. I wonder what it would take to quell the 'this is fake Brain Wilson - he's just a puppet' conspiracy theories though. Here we have a song that a) sounds just like a good Brian Wilson song b) is getting very positive criticism from respected music rags c) Brian himself appears to be very proud of. What is there to doubt - the piano playing is not like Brian? Surely that's because Scott Bennet is playing piano on this song? Doesn't mean Brian didn't write the lion's share of the song imo.

[Wirestone]

Oh hell. If you look at other threads here, there are people doubting that Brian wrote Live Let Live too. They say it sounds more like Van Dyke Parks (the acknowledged lyricist).

This exhausts me. Brian was clearly interested in the song. He contributed some steller vocals. Whoever wrote what, it seems like it engaged him. As far as I'm concerned, Brian wrote some of the lyrics. Some of the words from the chorus seem too perfect to be from any other hand.

[the captain]

Some of the words from the chorus seem too perfect to be from any other hand.

That's gotta be a first: words so good, they must've come from Brian Wilson!

"Neptune is god of the sea / Pluto is too far to see"

"Ed McMahon comes on and says 'Here's Johnny / Every night at eleven-thirty he is so fonny"

Actually, those are among my favorite BW lyrics. I'm not being sarcastic in that, either. I'd take 100 Love You song lyrics over all the schmaltzy crap in the world

[Wirestone]

I know it sounds silly. But I always have suspicions when the words and lyrics mesh espcially well in a chorus of a BW song. And he can write lyrics -- he just doesn't always try very hard. As I said much earlier on this thread, the simple line: "All these people make me feel so alone" seems perfectly Wilson-esque. I also wouldn't be surprised if the title and key line -- Midnight's Another Day -- comes from Brian. After all, he's written several night-themed songs in his solo career -- Night Bloomin Jasmine, The First Time, Nighttime.

[gsmile]

This thread reminds me of the eternal debate over who directed "Poltergeist".  Steven Spielberg wrote and produced the movie and Tobe Hooper (of "Texas Chain Saw Massacre" fame directed it.  For 25 years now, "insiders" have claimed that Steven did the majority of directing while Tobe sort of "looked on".  My money is on Tobe...it just looks like one of his films.  But Steven did write it, and Industrial Light and Magic did the special effects, so of course it looks and feels like a Steven Spielberg film too.

My point being:  Scott plays piano on this, and it's safe to say that the lyrics were pretty much all his...so of course it would bear some of his imprint on it!  To my ears the chord progression is very Brian-esque.  For people to say that he didn't write the music because the piano doesn't go "plunk plunk plunk" is totally ridiculous.  Not much "plunking" going on in Pet Sounds either!

I think MAD is a great song, and I can't wait to hear more.  What is my criteria?  It gave me those musical shivers that only Brian can produce.  It may be hyperbole to state that this is the best song that he's written since "Til I Die", but I will say that it is certainly a great new song, plain and simple.

[NightHider]

Guess I'm just a little skeptical that Ol' B-Dub sat down and banged out 18 songs from scratch on a bored afternoon or in the time since then for that matter.  I do look forward to hearing more though. Cheers!

[cwalter]

Huh?

MAD sounds original and Brian exerts effort on it...you can tell. Can he write new stuff? Should he get the benefit of the doubt?

Would a whole album of similar quality would be nice to listen too? Yes, I think...

[Andrew G. Doe]

Huh?

MAD sounds original and Brian exerts effort on it...you can tell. Can he write new stuff? Should he get the benefit of the doubt?

Would a whole album of similar quality would be nice to listen too? Yes, I think...

Original doesn't invariably equate with new. The vast majority of Brian's releases since 1998 are from a stockpile dating back to the early 60s.

"Can he write new stuff ?" On current evidence - not really.

But... doesn't matter - "MAD", whatever its genesis, whatever the composer split, is the best thing he's done in years. If the rest of "TLOS" is approaching this level, it should be good news all around.

[buddhahat]

Guess I'm just a little skeptical that Ol' B-Dub sat down and banged out 18 songs from scratch on a bored afternoon or in the time since then for that matter.  I do look forward to hearing more though. Cheers!

Scepticism is probably a healthy defense mechanism for a BW fan but personally when a song as good as MAD comes out, that sounds like a BW song, that has no previous manifestation in BB or BW bootlegs then surely that's the time to say: Wow, he still has a bit of that magic left. He can, when motivated, write beautiful material.

If a BW insider was suggesting that the new song was written largely by someone else and carried Brian's name alone, then that's the time to doubt a song's authenticty. But with MAD, all the evidence suggests that he's written a great new song. There's no evidence to suggest he hasn't written much of this song. BWPS had a similar response from many BW fans: Despite BW and Darian both maintaining that Brian was heavily involved in sequencing BWPS, fans were convinced that it was basically a Darian Smile mix. But as far as I could tell there was no evidence to suggest this other than Brian looking a bit ill and bored in the Beautiful Dreamer doc and Brian and Darian's obviously staged discussion of where Surf's Up should go. Sometimes I think BB fans' cynicism towards Brian's abilities today border on paranoia (not directed specifically at you Nighthider - just fans' cynicism in general)

[Amy B.]

[
"Can he write new stuff ?" On current evidence - not really.

But... doesn't matter - "MAD", whatever its genesis, whatever the composer split, is the best thing he's done in years. If the rest of "TLOS" is approaching this level, it should be good news all around.

Not really? Does that mean that "MAD" is not new? What about What I Really Want for Christmas (the song), What Love Can Do, Believe in Yourself, and Live Let Live? None of those were new? Whether they're good or not is a matter of opinion. I like them. Anyway, I appreciate that you like "MAD". No matter who wrote it, it exists, and it's a blessing. Kind of like Mozart's Requiem, if you want to take it that far.

BWPS had a similar response from many BW fans: Despite BW and Darian both maintaining that Brian was heavily involved in sequencing BWPS, fans were convinced that it was basically a Darian Smile mix. But as far as I could tell there was no evidence to suggest this other than Brian looking a bit ill and bored in the Beautiful Dreamer doc and Brian and Darian's obviously staged discussion of where Surf's Up should go. Sometimes I think BB fans' cynicism towards Brian's abilities today border on paranoia (not directed specifically at you Nighthider - just fans' cynicism in general)   

I agree. The staged discussion was obvious-- that is, there was no effort to make it seem like it was real. It was in the same location as that last BW interview, and Brian was wearing the same shirt as in the interview. It was clearly done on the same day...well after the Smile premiere.  It was like so many documentaries you see, with staged reenactments of excavations, etc. Same with the Paul McCartney encounter-- not staged in that case, but placed in for dramatic effect and because fans would want to see that and there was going to be no story beyond the first night. As far as Brian seeming sick on that other day, David Leaf said he was also on cold medicine, for what it's worth, and there was _certainly_ no effort to hide Brian's apathy there. It doesn't mean he was like that the entire time. I'd take it at face value and conclude that he was losing interest because the performance date was approaching and he was nervous. Doesn't mean he wasn't interested in the beginning, as he is with so many projects. Doesn't mean he didn't help sequence. 

Anyway, the point is that I think you can go too far in your cynicism. It's almost as if people are being cynical just for cynicism's sake. It's much more fun to just enjoy the music first. That's what it's there for. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

BWPS had a similar response from many BW fans: Despite BW and Darian both maintaining that Brian was heavily involved in sequencing BWPS, fans were convinced that it was basically a Darian Smile mix. But as far as I could tell there was no evidence to suggest this...

Depends who you talk to. And when.   

[buddhahat]

BWPS had a similar response from many BW fans: Despite BW and Darian both maintaining that Brian was heavily involved in sequencing BWPS, fans were convinced that it was basically a Darian Smile mix. But as far as I could tell there was no evidence to suggest this...

Depends who you talk to. And when.   

From all the info you've gleaned from interviews etc. Andrew, what's your opinion on how involved Brian was in the sequencing of BWPS? Even if you have heard conflicting stories from key players - what's your hunch?

[Andrew G. Doe]

My 'hunch' is that Darian did the basic sequencing and that Brian said "yes" or "no" after which revisions were made. Those who have seen the initial rough sequence will know that it is nothing like what was performed or released.

Regarding my comment, I think the "when" is more important that the "who".

[pixletwin]

My 'hunch' is that Darian did the basic sequencing and that Brian said "yes" or "no" after which revisions were made. Those who have seen the initial rough sequence will know that it is nothing like what was performed or released.

Regarding my comment, I think the "when" is more important that the "who".

So Brian basically works like George Lucas. 

[Roger Ryan]

Keep in mind (and I think this is what Andrew is getting at with the emphasis on "when"), the original intent was simply to perform the "SMiLE" material live. As a selection of songs to be performed in concert, it makes sense that Darian would put together a set list with a proposed running order. At some point after the live "sequencing" had been discussed, Brian determined that Van Dyke should come in to write some additional lyrics. It's here that the project turned into a 'let's complete 'SMiLE'" in a formal sense as a performance piece (and eventual album). Once that happened, it was important to establish the media angle of Brian redeeming himself and completing his lost masterpiece. I, for one, believe he did just that regardless of whether Darian proposed the initial sequencing or not.