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Author Topic: The Definitive Vocal Credits Thread...  (Read 188273 times)
Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #625 on: October 29, 2007, 12:56:49 AM »

The original "SAW" - in fact, ALL those three tracks - were on the tape the band played to Walter Yentikoff.

The one that made him say "Gentleman, I think I've just been f***ed".

It's always amused and slightly puzzled me that when an unreleased version of any given track pops up, a lot of people will say they prefer it. i guess it's the lure of the new. The 1978 version of "SAW" is, to these ears, leaden and has a seriously under-developed lyric, viz:

"Had good times
Were sublime
I didn't think it ever would last.
But in your eyes
I surmise
That our love was fading fast (so fast)

Maybe we'll make up
And repair this breakup
And we'll be together, together again".

Thud.
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« Reply #626 on: October 29, 2007, 07:44:20 AM »

Also it should be noted that the so-called "Bamboo" version of "Love Surrounds Me" (called that b/c it is on the various "Bamboo" bootlegs, and probably derives from the same reel as the other circulating "Bamboo" rough mixes), is merely a rough mix of the song AFTER it was already ear-marked for The Beach Boys, and just a couple of stages from the finished product.

How do I know?  Well for one thing, I vividly recall reading in Rolling Stone that The Beach Boys would be including two songs originally intended for Dennis Wilson's second solo album on their upcoming new album.  Then I remember "MIU" appearing in stores a short time later, and I looked but no, there were not two new Dennis songs.  A few months later of course, "L.A," appeared with those two new Dennis tunes.  "MIU" was released in late September '78.  Dennis was working on "Love Surrounds Me" during the Boys' stay at Criteria Studios in Miami, which was late August through early or mid September '78.  Since I bought "MIU" immediately on release, I'd have to say that Rolling Stone article appeared somewhere in between, but definitely in September, and would have referred to plans for the two new Dennis songs to be included on the NEXT album (meaning "L.A.").

Secondly, the "Bamboo" version of "LSM" contains Christine McVie's etheral background vocals, and according to most sources, Dennis and Christine didn't even meet until November '78, two months after that article in Rolling Stone likely appeared.   

Finally, Geoffrey Cushing-Murry recounts how he came to write lyrics for that song in Billy Hinsche's new DW documentary.  He says that Carl wanted Dennis to be more involved in the "L.A." album (in ESQ he also said that's why Carl had Dennis sing lead on "Angel Come Home"), so he and Jimmy G. suggested that Geoffrey write lyrics for this tune.  Guercio gave Geoffrey a cassette tape of the song, which he described as "backgroundy" music, with only an implied melody and no lyrics.  Therefore we have to say the vocals were not added to the song until AFTER it became a "Beach Boys" track.  Geoffrey describes being there when Dennis recorded his lead vocal, and also during a percussion overdub session produced by Dennis (which means the final "sweetening" added to the song prior to its release was apparently at Dennis' behest, rather than something Bruce, Carl, or Jimmy G. did behind his back).

On a related note...I found Cushing-Murry's comment about Carl wanting to get Dennis involved in the new Beach Boys album to be interesting...we've always assumed the Boys twisted Dennis' arm to get him to hand over his two new tracks, but this makes it sound like Carl and the others were doing him a favor.  The only other quote I remember seeing from the Beach Boys camp on the subject was in Bruce's interview for the "Pet Sounds" newspaper, published in November 1978.  Bruce said he "convinced" Dennis to include "Baby Blue" on the album, and that he thought it had "incredible chord changes".
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« Reply #627 on: October 29, 2007, 07:59:10 AM »

I've just been listening to "Here Comes The Night" from the "LA" album and indeed Alan does sing the title line (bass vocal, chorus or whatever it is).

Also I think it is Alan (but I am not absolutely sure) who does the same thing on the original "HCTN". In case I'm being very unclear, I mean that he sings the brief title phrase going into the chorus on the original (although Carl sings the corresponding phrase i.e. in the same place, on the disco version).

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John
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« Reply #628 on: October 29, 2007, 08:03:21 AM »

AGD,  I didn't say he sang the chorus.

I didn't know what to term it - it's the backing vocals on the 1967 version, but here it appears unaccompanied several times, once even before Carl even starts the verses; the bit that goes:

"Here Comes The Night, oh-oh" from then on.

 And I agree that it sounds like him on the bass vocal.
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« Reply #629 on: October 29, 2007, 09:09:05 AM »

Exactly what I thought too.

Alan sings the "Here Comes The Night, oh-oh" part which is near the beginning of the "LA" version, before the verses, and then he sings the same part each time it comes back, whether with harmony vocals on top or unaccompanied.

On the "Wild Honey" version, Alan sings just the "Here Comes The Night" which leads into the chorus backing vocals and Brian's chorus lead. On the "LA" version, Carl includes this line in his lead vocal.
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« Reply #630 on: October 29, 2007, 09:20:26 AM »

I know it's a bit off topic, but I find it interesting: I was concerned because I wrote earlier that the four part harmony on "I Went to Sleep" was Mike, Carl, Alan, Brian from lowest to highest, whereas I'm sure the order is actually Mike, Alan, Carl, Brian. Sorry, for the mistake.

Alan and Carl would swap around their place in the harmony.
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« Reply #631 on: October 29, 2007, 11:37:36 AM »

The original "SAW" - in fact, ALL those three tracks - were on the tape the band played to Walter Yentikoff.

The one that made him say "Gentleman, I think I've just been fodaed".

It's always amused and slightly puzzled me that when an unreleased version of any given track pops up, a lot of people will say they prefer it. i guess it's the lure of the new. The 1978 version of "SAW" is, to these ears, leaden and has a seriously under-developed lyric, viz:

"Had good times
Were sublime
I didn't think it ever would last.
But in your eyes
I surmise
That our love was fading fast (so fast)

Maybe we'll make up
And repair this breakup
And we'll be together, together again".

Thud.

What Andrew said (ditto the nix nix on Al J. on HCTN).

I think the KTSA version is superior to the demo version in many ways, but I agree that the KTSA production had one too many layers of shite.  The most offensive thing on that is, to me, Al's triple-tracked lead vocal in the first verse (and Mike's double-tracked lead ins to the chorus "puriteeeeeeeeeeeeeee.....").  They're both almost unlistenable.  The track is lovely, though.  The tag with the harmonica and the string section...wow.
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Smilin Ed H
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« Reply #632 on: October 29, 2007, 12:43:36 PM »

The lyrics on the KTSA version of Santa Ana Winds are better, but the production is sweetened beyond belief.  Between the two, there's a good song lurking.

I'd go for the Mike solo Sumahama.
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« Reply #633 on: October 29, 2007, 03:25:10 PM »

Exactly what I thought too.

Alan sings the "Here Comes The Night, oh-oh" part which is near the beginning of the "LA" version, before the verses, and then he sings the same part each time it comes back, whether with harmony vocals on top or unaccompanied.

OK, I get what you're saying now.  I'd buy that.
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« Reply #634 on: October 29, 2007, 03:49:32 PM »

Re: people prefering unreleased songs just coz it's something new: Bollocks in my case I'm afraid as I had my 'SAW' bootleg tape long before I ever went out and wasted my money on KTSA. I just genuinely think the chorus sounds so much better and fuller on the rawer, less-produced original. Also, on an alternate thread only yesterday I disagreed with a bunch of people when they claimed 'Hang On To Your Ego' was superior to 'I Know There's An Answer', so you know, I just tend to decide on my preference depending on which I consider better, end of.
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #635 on: October 29, 2007, 03:54:00 PM »

No, I meant credit Mike for the bass vocal on "HCTN" -  the "do-do-do-do" and also during the chorus. The intro voice is so heavily processed I defy anyone to identify it. I don't hear ACJ doing any leads on that song.

BTW, the first layer of bvs were laid down by Curt Becher & California - Joe Chemay et al.
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« Reply #636 on: October 29, 2007, 06:27:58 PM »

No, I meant credit Mike for the bass vocal on "HCTN" -  the "do-do-do-do" and also during the chorus. The intro voice is so heavily processed I defy anyone to identify it. I don't hear ACJ doing any leads on that song.

BTW, the first layer of bvs were laid down by Curt Becher & California - Joe Chemay et al.

My guess is that intro voice is Curt or one of California, through a vocoder.
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thomasogg
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« Reply #637 on: October 29, 2007, 07:06:14 PM »

No, I meant credit Mike for the bass vocal on "HCTN" -  the "do-do-do-do" and also during the chorus. The intro voice is so heavily processed I defy anyone to identify it. I don't hear ACJ doing any leads on that song.

BTW, the first layer of bvs were laid down by Curt Becher & California - Joe Chemay et al.

My guess is that intro voice is Curt or one of California, through a vocoder.


'Through a vocoder' - a phrase that pretty much sums up why I don't like KTSA.
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #638 on: October 29, 2007, 09:56:54 PM »

KTSA ?
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« Reply #639 on: October 29, 2007, 10:48:49 PM »

Katie Tunstall Sucks Ass.
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MBE
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« Reply #640 on: October 30, 2007, 02:59:19 AM »

Sorry to "butt in" here, but isn't it Brian doing the verses on "She's Got Rhythm"?

Yep...his first full falsetto lead since what, '65?  '66? 

Don't You Just Know It was from 1970 but was a duet with Jam Berry and released as a solo single by him.

Was that for sure from 1970?  Given the quality of Brian's (on the rough mixes, worse than I'd expect in '70) and Jan's (better than I'd expect in '70) voices, and that the single came out in '73, I would have expected it to be later. 

I guess we don't know for sure as far as session dates but he sounds fine on it to me. He just singing in a different style, compare it to Walkin from around the same time. Just a more rockin type lead. Jan's lines are brief and he had cut Mother Earth by about 1970 which is just as good or even better.
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« Reply #641 on: October 30, 2007, 03:02:35 AM »

I heard the isolated "I Love You' and it is Brian.

Why not just read the sleeve notes? It was Carl.

(Know we not meant to bring up old threads but hey ho...)

That's why we are doing this thread because sleeve notes can be wrong. I am convinced on this one.
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« Reply #642 on: October 30, 2007, 07:20:11 AM »

I heard the isolated "I Love You' and it is Brian.

Why not just read the sleeve notes? It was Carl.

(Know we not meant to bring up old threads but hey ho...)

That's why we are doing this thread because sleeve notes can be wrong. I am convinced on this one.

Yeah...sleeve notes...really trustworthy...NOT. Leaf's were a mess, errors abound...and don't forget Peter Buck telling us Brian sang Mona...sheesh.
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Steve Mayo
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« Reply #643 on: October 30, 2007, 07:51:27 AM »



Yeah...sleeve notes...really trustworthy...NOT. Leaf's were a mess, errors abound...and don't forget Peter Buck telling us Brian sang Mona...sheesh.
[/quote]

may not be worth much, but back in 1977 i read an interview of earle mankey about love you. in that interview he said that both brian and dennis sang mona and the vocal was a blend of those 2 voices. somewhere in my house i have that interview. may not be right but that is what earle said in that interview.
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John
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« Reply #644 on: October 30, 2007, 08:40:10 AM »

No, I meant credit Mike for the bass vocal on "HCTN" -  the "do-do-do-do" and also during the chorus. The intro voice is so heavily processed I defy anyone to identify it. I don't hear ACJ doing any leads on that song.

Really? Because that chorus vocal sounds just like Al to me, and the bass vocal starts out sounding like Mike (but that may be because we expect it) but then resolves itself into being Al to my ears. That bass vocal (in the big bass vocal section) sounds kinda processed and even pitch-shifted too.

If that "Here comes the night, oh-oh, here come here come,  here now here come the night" isn't Al? Man, that's weird. I'll (sob) have to steel myself for another listen to it.
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John
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« Reply #645 on: October 30, 2007, 08:41:44 AM »

may not be worth much, but back in 1977 i read an interview of earl manke about love you. in that interview he said that both brian and dennis sang mona and the vocal was a blend of those 2 voices. somewhere in my house i have that interview. may not be right but that is what earl said in that interview.

Hmm. That might be worth mentioning. I don't think Buck was thinking of that interview though, I just think he made a boo-boo. Maybe everyone should listen to Mona tonight, and see if they hear enough hints of Brian to mention it, and then we'll take a vote.
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Glenn Greenberg
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« Reply #646 on: October 30, 2007, 08:50:44 AM »

Regarding L.A. (Light Album):

Did Brian really contribute absolutely no vocals to that album?
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« Reply #647 on: October 30, 2007, 09:00:21 AM »

may not be worth much, but back in 1977 i read an interview of earl manke about love you. in that interview he said that both brian and dennis sang mona and the vocal was a blend of those 2 voices. somewhere in my house i have that interview. may not be right but that is what earl said in that interview.

Hmm. That might be worth mentioning. I don't think Buck was thinking of that interview though, I just think he made a boo-boo. Maybe everyone should listen to Mona tonight, and see if they hear enough hints of Brian to mention it, and then we'll take a vote.

i was just mentioning what i had read about that song back in 1977. i really don't care much if it is only dennis or both. and i think the same earle info was mentioned on a radio special (earth news radio..i think...something like that) that ran for about a week when the lp was released.
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John
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« Reply #648 on: October 30, 2007, 09:26:51 AM »

Well, yeah, but caring whether it's Brian or Dennis or both is kinda the point of this thread.

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John
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« Reply #649 on: October 30, 2007, 09:27:32 AM »

Regarding L.A. (Light Album):

Did Brian really contribute absolutely no vocals to that album?

I think I read that he's on "Angel Come Home" at least. Someone would need to confirm that though.
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