Why

[parlay]

Can someone explain in detail what caused the
 Issues between Al and Mike - leading to Al’s
Dismissal from The Beach Boys?

[SMiLE-addict]

Why not?

[juggler]

Things allegedly began to seriously sour between Mike and Al during the recording of the 1992 "Summer in Paradise" album, with Mike reportedly complaining of Al's “severe attitude problem.”  

Things finally boiled over in the 1997 period when Carl was gravely ill, and Mike and Al bitterly disagreed over Al's idea of doing a "symphonic tour" wherein they would perform with music with various symphonic orchestras

From the horse's mouth...
Goldmine, July 28, 2000.

So what prompted your decision to stop touring with Love's version of the Beach Boys?

We had a symphony tour lined up for the United States. Lots of interested symphonies that could give our music a breadth and depth that we didn't have before and give them a little extra business they needed. A lot of symphonies were going bankrupt. For instance the San Diego Symphony was in a desperate state, and we were going to do our rehearsal concert there in San Diego. They would get one and we would get one. That kind of deal where they get one for their coffers and we'd get a chance to rehearse and get it underway. And then go to the Hollywood Bowl, get that wonderful place sold out and take it from there all over the country. Carry our charts with us and give them to all the different symphonies.

What happened?

Love steadfastly refused to do it. He insisted that Brian be there, I remember that remark which is not all wrong. I don't disagree with that. It would be great if Brian could be everywhere, but we all have to be realistic. He's not going to be predictable that way. He's got only so much energy for that kind of work. He's not built for it.

Brian never liked to tour.

I think Brian was designing our songs back in the day so we wouldn't have to be dependent on him. Anyway, I suggested that he conduct the concert at the Hollywood Bowl. I thought it would be neat if he could come out and take some credit for all that great work. Anyway, that wasn't to be. Mike refused to do it. I think it would've been a great tribute to Carl. It would have been built around the music, not the messenger. It wouldn't have been built around any one of us.

After Carl passed away, you were still in the band and then decided to leave the Love touring lineup sometime after that.

Right. It became one of those moments. Love continued to tour. He didn't stop touring. He just didn't want to tour in that modality. That wasn't his idea of "fun, fun, fun." [laughs] So he continued to work with his band, The California Beach Band, and he would go out and do dates and have surrogate singers do Carl's parts. I thought that was tasteless. While at the same time not going out with the Beach Boys because of Carl's passing so there's some kind of contradiction in that, in my opinion. In fact, my son Matthew at the time was still in that employ, which I did not disagree with because I don't want him to not be able to earn a living. But at some point it got uncomfortable.

So at what point did you pack it in with that lineup?

When Mike refused to tour with the Beach Boys. He just refused to tour with us in any fashion. I can't go into detail with you right now, [but] it got reorganized where Love took the band with an exclusive license and I didn't. And Bruce decided to go with the guy who sang all the hits. Matthew had to make some decisions of his own. We decided to form this entity - Beach Boys, Family And Friends, which I felt would mmore accurately define the harmonies and the vitality of what was missing in the waning years of the band.

https://troun.tripod.com/al.html

[HeyJude]

I can't find a particular post that lays out all the details at the moment, but if you want to check my zillion years of posting history, I've gone into the extreme details of the Mike/Al falling out in 1998.

That 2000 Goldmine interview with Al tells a bit of the story, but it really only raises more questions than answers.

I can expand later perhaps, because a book could literally be written on this topic, but the not-that-quick-but-quick-as-possible nuts and bolts:


Al and Mike, despite having TM and "clean" living in common, have always otherwise been very different people. I think their seeming to side together in the 70s and 80s gave a false impression of being tighter than they actually were.

It appears by the late 80s/early 90s, things started to sour between Mike and Al. Details have always been sketchy on this. I think Al went through a period of being kind of prickly and in a bad mood around this time, possibly partly due to a supposed case of dealing with Tinnitus.

Peter Ames Carlin reports in his Brian Wilson biography that an attempt was made as early as 1990 to oust/buy out Al from the band. This obviously didn't happen.

Reports of Al being fired or "suspended" from the band during the 1991/1992 "Summer in Paradise" sessions are mostly false. Meaning, he was essentially "not invited" to those sessions until very late in the game due to the ongoing attitude issues and acrimony. But he was never "fired" as such, and never disappeared from the touring band during that time.

As told in the Marks/Stebbins book and other sources, at some point in the mid-late 90s, Mike let it be known that he wanted his own company to take over as production company for the Beach Boys tour. This would essentially be the set up that Mike uses now with his own band. But back in the mid-90s, this would have meant Al and Carl (and Bruce) becoming essentially employees of Mike, with Mike's operation licensing the Beach Boys name. As Al has described it, Al was vehemently opposed to this, and Carl did not side with Al (whether Carl was supportive of this move or just ambivalent is unknown). How far along this process got prior to Carl's death and Al being squeezed out of the band is unknown.

Carl was diagnosed in late 1996, and continued to tour with the band in 1997. According to Ray Lawlor, as Carl's condition worsened, Mike at some point during the year sent a letter to BRI saying he didn't want to appear on stage with Carl anymore due to his condition, and threatened to quit if the situation persisted. To be clear, this was interpreted by some as a "tough love" sort of situation.

Around this same time, by 1997, as reported in the Marks/Stebbins book, Mike had apparently decided he didn't want to tour with Al anymore either, for obviously different reasons (presumably attitude/personality clashes). But he still wanted to be "The Beach Boys." So he started trying to hunt down David Marks to join the band, as an eventual replacement for Al Jardine.

So by some point in 1997, Mike has made it clear that, given the then-current circumstances, he didn't want to tour with Al or Carl. Again, for very different reasons.

The Carl issue became moot, because by late summer Carl had to leave the road (what was at the time hopefully a temporary leave) due to his health.

Very soon after that, Mike brought in David Marks (without telling Al; in Spinal Tap fashion Al just eventually noticed that David kept showing up at gigs). Once Al figured out what was going on, he knew it was over.

Because David showed up mere weeks after Carl left the road, it gave the understandable impression that Dave had been brought in to replace Carl. But that was not the case.

The band toured through the end of 1997 with Mike, Bruce, Al, and David.

Carl died in February 1998. At that point, the current business set up was busted up, and Al was functionally fired even if that was not technically/logistically what happened.

The band essentially broke up after Carl died, and Mike reformed the entire touring band without Al. Even Matt Jardine was still in Mike's band at that point.

At that point BRI had to sort out how to deal with who could use the name. For the first half of 1998, nobody had the rights to the BB name. Mike toured as his "Endless Summer Beach Band" or whatever it was called. By mid-1998, Mike got a non-exclusive license and started using the BB name.

Al toured in late 1998 and through 1999 as "Beach Boys Family & Friends", and eventually they brought the axe down on Al using that name.

By 1999/2000, Mike had the exclusive license to use the name.

This all still doesn't address all of the "why" as far as what happened between Mike and Al. I think they had very different personalities despite having those couple of things in common (TM, not doing drugs). I think there was a period where Al was just often cranky or surly, and Mike didn't like that. Eventually, and this is just my guess/interpretation, Mike decided he wanted full control of the band.

How things would have shaken out had Carl survived; that's pretty difficult to say. Would Carl have smoothed things over? Would he have stuck up for Al? Was Al on a collision course to being ousted regardless?

[acedecade75]

 I wonder what exactly David was told when was asked to rejoin the band.  He only stayed with Mike until mid 1999.

[Awesoman]

Things allegedly began to seriously sour between Mike and Al during the recording of the 1992 "Summer in Paradise" album, with Mike reportedly complaining of Al's “severe attitude problem.”  

Things finally boiled over in the 1997 period when Carl was gravely ill, and Mike and Al bitterly disagreed over Al's idea of doing a "symphonic tour" wherein they would perform with music with various symphonic orchestras

From the horse's mouth...
Goldmine, July 28, 2000.

So what prompted your decision to stop touring with Love's version of the Beach Boys?

We had a symphony tour lined up for the United States. Lots of interested symphonies that could give our music a breadth and depth that we didn't have before and give them a little extra business they needed. A lot of symphonies were going bankrupt. For instance the San Diego Symphony was in a desperate state, and we were going to do our rehearsal concert there in San Diego. They would get one and we would get one. That kind of deal where they get one for their coffers and we'd get a chance to rehearse and get it underway. And then go to the Hollywood Bowl, get that wonderful place sold out and take it from there all over the country. Carry our charts with us and give them to all the different symphonies.

What happened?

Love steadfastly refused to do it. He insisted that Brian be there, I remember that remark which is not all wrong. I don't disagree with that. It would be great if Brian could be everywhere, but we all have to be realistic. He's not going to be predictable that way. He's got only so much energy for that kind of work. He's not built for it.

Brian never liked to tour.

I think Brian was designing our songs back in the day so we wouldn't have to be dependent on him. Anyway, I suggested that he conduct the concert at the Hollywood Bowl. I thought it would be neat if he could come out and take some credit for all that great work. Anyway, that wasn't to be. Mike refused to do it. I think it would've been a great tribute to Carl. It would have been built around the music, not the messenger. It wouldn't have been built around any one of us.

After Carl passed away, you were still in the band and then decided to leave the Love touring lineup sometime after that.

Right. It became one of those moments. Love continued to tour. He didn't stop touring. He just didn't want to tour in that modality. That wasn't his idea of "fun, fun, fun." [laughs] So he continued to work with his band, The California Beach Band, and he would go out and do dates and have surrogate singers do Carl's parts. I thought that was tasteless. While at the same time not going out with the Beach Boys because of Carl's passing so there's some kind of contradiction in that, in my opinion. In fact, my son Matthew at the time was still in that employ, which I did not disagree with because I don't want him to not be able to earn a living. But at some point it got uncomfortable.

So at what point did you pack it in with that lineup?

When Mike refused to tour with the Beach Boys. He just refused to tour with us in any fashion. I can't go into detail with you right now, [but] it got reorganized where Love took the band with an exclusive license and I didn't. And Bruce decided to go with the guy who sang all the hits. Matthew had to make some decisions of his own. We decided to form this entity - Beach Boys, Family And Friends, which I felt would mmore accurately define the harmonies and the vitality of what was missing in the waning years of the band.

https://troun.tripod.com/al.html

Ironically a few years after Al's dismissal from the band, Mike and Bruce would end up incorporating an orchestra during some of their shows.  They did this back in 2004 for the Chastain concert in Atlanta.  That was the year I was working backstage at the venue.  I remember they had the orchestra perform a medley of Beach Boys' songs during the band's intermission.  I was standing next to Bruce backstage while he was talking to my stage manager gushing to her about having an orchestra perform with them.  I also remember him complaining a little about how the crowd wasn't really paying much attention to the medley.  🤷🏼‍♂️

[HeyJude]

 I wonder what exactly David was told when was asked to rejoin the band.  He only stayed with Mike until mid 1999.

That's all detailed in the excellent book David did with Jon Stebbins.

David certainly wasn't aware of all the ongoing BRI/corporate issues in detail, nor the ongoing long history of whatever was going on between Mike and Al.

When Mike invited Dave back into the band, in true Spinal Tap fashion as I often say, he just didn't tell Al. The book outlines that in previous years Dave had been occasionally invited on stage to play on a few numbers, etc. So it seems like when Dave first showed up at gigs, Al may have wondered if it was more of an extended guest spot situation. But obviously, he eventually just noticed that Dave was showing up at every gig and playing the entire gig, and he confronted Dave. As the book points out, Al knew he was being edged out and David being there was a sign of that. It's important to note that Al later acknowledged that it turned out that Dave was an unknowing pawn in all of this. Essentially, when Dave joined, once it was known that Dave was actually back in the band full time, Al knew more about why Dave was there than Dave did.

That being said, I'm sure Dave knew he was entering a fraught situation. The book doesn't really go into like granular detail about  precisely what Mike told Dave when he asked him to join, but even if Mike told him very little, Dave could have quickly deduced that things were not going well between Mike and Al.

As for why Dave left in 1999, that's all detailed in the book. That was all down to Dave's own stuff going on at the time.