SMiLE was ready in 1967 - discuss

[Bicyclerider]

Well, the two tapes are literally spliced together. Bicycle Rider was cut from the complete assembly of Worms (literally cut, with a razor), and pasted after the verse of Heroes and Villains, which came on the same tape reel.

When you say complete assembly of Worms, was this edited together as a potential finished backing track, or is it just the pieces lined up on one reel?

The backing track pieces for Worms were dubbed to a second generation 4-track and edited together at the initial session. Vocals were overdubbed onto the full edited composite track, much like Good Vibrations, which isn't the approach Brian took with most of the rest of the Smile material. It was later copied to 8-track for more work, and that's the tape where Bicycle Rider has been spliced out and edited onto the Heroes verses.

A mono reel from December 27 (which is missing from the box, but what was on it survives via acetates) contained the Cabin Essence chorus, two mixes of Bicycle Rider, and the Heroes opening verses. The contents are listed as:
1 - PORTION OF CABINESSENCE (WHO RAN THE IRON HORSE)
2 - PORTION OF HEROES AND VILLAINS (BICYCLE RIDERS) ['(INDIANS)' crossed out]
3 - same as 2
4 - PORTION OF HEROES AND VILLAINS - OPENING

Intentions with the CE chorus aren't completely clear, but Vosse did make a muddled comment about Brian wanting to put Bicycle Rider and Iron Horse together at some point. Likely the next day, Brian recorded "Heroes and Villains Part 3" (on the face of it would naturally follow "Part 2", aka Bicycle Rider) which is more or less a reworking of the Iron Horse music.

Okay, follow up question (I meant to ask this at the time and never got around to it) - if I wanted to hear a reconstruction of that initial Worms track, ideally both with and without the vocals, as it stood before Brian spliced out Bicycle Rider, where would I look? Is such a thing on the Smile Sessions box?

It's on Sounds of Summer in stereo - first verse and chorus without lead vocals, second verse with backing vocals and second chorus with BR lead vocals (put on in January), the bridge with vocals.  All the individual parts without any vocals are on the Smile Sessions box but not put together if I remember correctly.

[mike s]

The BR lyrics were for H&V so they don't belong in Worms.  However if your own version of H&V doesn't include them then Worms is the obvious place to put them

It's on Sounds of Summer in stereo - first verse and chorus without lead vocals, second verse with backing vocals and second chorus with BR lead vocals (put on in January), the bridge with vocals.  All the individual parts without any vocals are on the Smile Sessions box but not put together if I remember correctly.

[starbond]

Updated version. Added some lost sessions, updated the Barnyard and H&V session dates with some new information, added some Smiley Smile, updated Related events, and added Good Vibrations at the bottom to show how Brian had a burst of activity as soon as it finished 

[Bicyclerider]

The BR lyrics were for H&V so they don't belong in Worms.  However if your own version of H&V doesn't include them then Worms is the obvious place to put them

It's on Sounds of Summer in stereo - first verse and chorus without lead vocals, second verse with backing vocals and second chorus with BR lead vocals (put on in January), the bridge with vocals.  All the individual parts without any vocals are on the Smile Sessions box but not put together if I remember correctly.

The BR lyrics weren't recorded until January but I see no indication they weren't written for Worms - all the other lyrics for Worms were written and the BR instrumental part was recorded at the same time as the rest of the song.  What do you think Brian was going to do with the BR section of Worms, leave it instrumental?  And the BR lyrics totally fit the song.

[mike s]

Hi - Mr Parks told me himself via email that those lyrics were written for H&V.

The BR lyrics were for H&V so they don't belong in Worms.  However if your own version of H&V doesn't include them then Worms is the obvious place to put them

It's on Sounds of Summer in stereo - first verse and chorus without lead vocals, second verse with backing vocals and second chorus with BR lead vocals (put on in January), the bridge with vocals.  All the individual parts without any vocals are on the Smile Sessions box but not put together if I remember correctly.

The BR lyrics weren't recorded until January but I see no indication they weren't written for Worms - all the other lyrics for Worms were written and the BR instrumental part was recorded at the same time as the rest of the song.  What do you think Brian was going to do with the BR section of Worms, leave it instrumental?  And the BR lyrics totally fit the song.

[Bicyclerider]

That's interesting because it fits perfectly with the Worms lyrics, but doesn't fit into the lyrical story of Heroes and Villains which is all in the first person.

[mike s]

That's true about the first person but the themes do fit.  The BBs did put the BR lyrics into live shows in the early 70s.

That's interesting because it fits perfectly with the Worms lyrics, but doesn't fit into the lyrical story of Heroes and Villains which is all in the first person.

[Julia]

It has caused some pretty intense arguments in the past, but I still have the opinion (based on the actual timeline, reports from those involved, and interviews with band members from 1967) that the Derek Taylor announcement was premature, if not inaccurate, and that the two weeks between that last "DaDa" session in May, the Beach Boys returning from a European tour where they got some bad reviews in the press, and work starting the first week in June on what would become the "Smiley" working method are KEY and absolutely essential in understanding why things happened as they did.

Literally everything about the band's working methods in terms of recording and production changed in those two weeks, late May into June 1967. If the term to describe the changes could be a "seismic event", it would be appropriate. Things simply do not change that drastically in that short a time without a major catalyst leading to the changes.

One of the main events was the Beach Boys returning from Europe shouldering some criticism about their live sound versus the records.

Unfortunately very few have spoken about those two weeks in late May '67 with any specifics, except perhaps Nick Grillo. And I doubt we'll ever know, because I think some seriously heavy discussions happened that went beyond "what's our next album?".

I wonder if maybe it's not so much that the band "killed" SMiLE in that they had that kind of authority over Brian to force his hand, but that their (presumed) complaints of "how are we gonna perform this live?" were the excuse he needed to get out of his self-imposed bind? It's already been discussed multiple times how everything changed in that crucial late-December-into-1967 window, when the Fire session freaked him out and VDP left, at least for the first time, then work shifted to the single.

It's really unclear why that happened, and especially now that Brian is gone and nobody else (not even VDP) knew what was going on in his head, what his process/schedule was, the detailed schematic of the album track-by-track etc, it's just going to remain a mystery. My speculative theory is that when Brian got scared of Fire or realized that track was just not going to work out the way he thought it would, two things happened:

1) He lost his confidence. For years he'd been battling off Murry's relentless criticism, then he had the other Boys giving him at least a bit of grief since Pet Sounds (Asher says this, I believe it) as well as at least some of the Capitol execs. He could always blow them off though, because he still believed in his own muse. He knew he was making great music with Pet Sounds and that was enough to power through the negativity. But now he'd realized one of his great ideas just wasn't gonna work and while anyone else could shrug that off with "oh well, they can't all be winners" for him it was the straw that broke the camel's back. I'm sure it led to an avalanche of doubt "what if everyone's right and this music sucks? What if Im not the genius they say I am--geniuses dont make mistakes!" So he procrastinates with the single to avoid the album, or else begins to second guess everything starting with Heroes but either way the sessions meander into endless revision.

2) Without the elements, the album lost its "heart" and purpose in his mind. Brian wanted SMiLE to be this big all-important statement to the world, a symphony to God, a celebration of his new age spiritual practices (subud, astrology, numerology, i ching, etc) and that's not something you can just make compromises on. Unlike the Beatles, who shrugged off the "band-in-disguise" concept of Pepper early on (as Ringo said: "sod it, let's just do tracks") Brian's project was much more self-important. Listening to the Smog skit he says "in order to function, to live, be healthy and be happy, you've got to have, first of all the elements" and "the way we can help [make society better] is to make a record and present the facts in an interesting manner so people will listen." That's it, that's the thematic nexus of SMiLE right there. Without expressing the elements clearly in the music, the project has no purpose in his mind, there's no lynch pin holding these otherwise very disparate tracks together and that's not not something he could get over, either due to artistic integrity or obsessive compulsion or whatever.

Anyway, when the Boys come back from another tour, fresh with new worries and complaints about being unable to replicate his wall of sound in concert, Brian used that as a convenient excuse "you know what, you're right. It's too complex. Let's make something simpler you guys can do on stage." This way he could move on to something else, abandon this very complicated project that was giving him so much anxiety, without having to openly admit he failed. "It's not that I couldn't hack it, the group just needed something else at this time. I'll get around to finishing SMiLE...eventually." But then eventually never came, it was just too daunting a task and post-1967 the moment had passed and that kind of big psychedelic social-statement would've felt like a belated also-ran next to Sgt Pepper and the cool psych rock bands that had already taken rock to the next level. By 1968 most groups were doing a "back to basics" thing, so doing SMiLE would be like trying to make a disco album in 1980. (Yes, some people actually did that, but it was seen as passe.)

This is exactly what confuses me about the SMiLE to Smiley Smile transition. The music took such a dark/stark turn - it went from mostly happy and jovial to downright haunting. He went from the pinnacle of wall-of-sound with Pet Sounds (a sound that Brian had been using for years that led to so much of their success and fame) to the haunting desolation of Smiley Smile virtually overnight.

Did Brian really think that such a dramatic shift in sound was their key to a successful record? What did the other band members think of the shift in sound?

Guitarfool's quote above "One of the main events was the Beach Boys returning from Europe shouldering some criticism about their live sound versus the records." sheds some light on this, but I just can't see the guys (or Brian for that matter) saying "hey, we got a number 1 record with Good Vibrations, I bet our Woody Woodpecker song is really going to blow their minds next!"

I am way oversimplifying things, and I'm not staunchly fixed in my viewpoints regarding this era (mostly because it is just too confusing of a time, with so many variables, that it's impossible for me to have a logical/concrete perspective on it). But I'd also like to learn more about the band/Brian and this dramatic shift.

It just confirms that the final say was still Brian's at this time. He pushed music the other guys didn't fully believe in, whether it be too orchestral or not enough. He gave them a song like "Surf's Up" and just as they were warming up to it he took it away. He had that power. The other Boys didn't think Smiley was more commercial, there's even quotes of them saying as much, they were just along for the ride.

I think you can sum up Smiley with two phrases: self-sabotage and malicious compliance. Brian was giving the guys what they wanted in a way they didn't want it. Simpler arrangements and "let's just make music together like it used to be" (as Mike always says "the two of us, in a room") but in a deliberately uncommercial way. I believe this was his way of backing out of competing with Phil Spector and the Beatles, making music he knew on some level would be rejected by the public so that when he inevitably came up short he could justify that it was intentional. It just speaks to his immense talent that even when he's deliberately making "bad" music it's still innovative, fascinating and somehow still way ahead of its time. In terms of group dynamics, I think he was trying to throw the guys a bone: they felt left out of the creative process so he had them record the whole album together and have fun with it. Mike felt jilted so he credited "Gettin Hungry" to the two of them.

As for why the music feels so dark and ominous, I believe that's just his true mentality seeping into the music. He's expressing his frustration and turmoil with his art, consciously or unconsciously.

To tie both of these responses together, I'll say that it wasn't in the group's power to unilaterally overrule Brian and cancel SMiLE however they had that power in their ability to plant seeds of doubt in his mind. I really think if anybody (besides Dennis who it seems was very supportive) but preferably Mike or Murry had just said "you're doing amazing things with this music, Brian, I'm proud of you" I think it would've made all the difference. Oh well.

[MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm]

Great post. Great stuff.

Random but sort-of-related question. Do we know anything concrete about Carl's level of support for the Smile material? (He is a pretty minimal presence in David Leaf's book, though some tensions are hinted at in the section about Brian's outside Brother Records projects.) Did he start out supportive of Brian/VDP in '66, but by '67 he was having doubts as well?

[Angela Jones]

I think this title says it all: 'You need a mess of help to stand alone'. Brian was worried about his responsibility to his band who were family and friends. There was the record company. The departure of his collaborator. Difficulty in sequencing. And the knowledge that there was competition. These things all contributed.  Some have tried to play down the negative contribution of some band members. But some of that is on record.

[MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm]

By the way. Does anyone else agree that Good Vibrations is an odd fit with the rest of the Smile material, regardless of which lyrics are used? Has Brian discussed this before? It shares some sonic DNA with the Smile songs just as Sloop John B does with Pet Sounds, but for me the vibe and lyrics of GV are pretty wildly different.

[Julia]

By the way. Does anyone else agree that Good Vibrations is an odd fit with the rest of the Smile material, regardless of which lyrics are used? Has Brian discussed this before? It shares some sonic DNA with the Smile songs just as Sloop John B does with Pet Sounds, but for me the vibe and lyrics of GV are pretty wildly different.

Ive always agreed that it fits better as a standalone single, but boy you would get crucified for saying that back in the day.

Realistically it wouldve been on the album for the sales boost alone but damn if it wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb. Like, wherever you put it it feels like a weird, lengthy detour

But I guess even Sgt Pepper had the totally out of left field Within You, Without You and as you allude to, some people dont like SJB on Pet Sounds.

[BJL]

By the way. Does anyone else agree that Good Vibrations is an odd fit with the rest of the Smile material, regardless of which lyrics are used? Has Brian discussed this before? It shares some sonic DNA with the Smile songs just as Sloop John B does with Pet Sounds, but for me the vibe and lyrics of GV are pretty wildly different.

Ive always agreed that it fits better as a standalone single, but boy you would get crucified for saying that back in the day.

Realistically it wouldve been on the album for the sales boost alone but damn if it wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb. Like, wherever you put it it feels like a weird, lengthy detour

But I guess even Sgt Pepper had the totally out of left field Within You, Without You and as you allude to, some people dont like SJB on Pet Sounds.

I definitely see this - I mean, lyrically it's in a totally different universe. But I think musically it would have fit very well, and that as Brian did his last vocal overdubs and assembled and mixed the other songs they would have become sonically more like Good Vibrations—tighter, brighter, denser. I also think there's a certain logic to including a song about the rush of falling in love within the "cycle of life" theme the album develops, even if we are on a different planet lyrically.

For what it's worth, I've always thought Sloop John B fit perfectly on Pet Sounds and am very glad it was included. It's so central to the emotional arc of the album in my mind, and I've always seen it as one of the album’s more abstract and existential tracks. The experience of being on a trip you don't understand, nothing's going how you thought it would, and you just want to go home. Just let me go home. I want to go home. What home? The West Hollywood apartment he’d shared with Marilyn for less than a year? The house in Hawthorne his parents no longer lived in? What home?

[HeyJude]

I don't think "Good Vibrations" would have been that much of an anomaly on "Smile." It's "modular" like a lot of the other material, and it even shares the riff with "Holidays."

And in a world where "Smile" had come out, and they had decided not to include "Good Vibrations", it would be really weird for one of their few #1 hits to never be released on an album.

Al has always said he thought GV should been finished for and released on "Pet Sounds", but it feels a least marginally more "Smile" to me than "Pet Sounds." I mean, it really sounds like the middle ground, because that's literally more or less what it is.

[Julia]

I don't think "Good Vibrations" would have been that much of an anomaly on "Smile." It's "modular" like a lot of the other material, and it even shares the riff with "Holidays."

And in a world where "Smile" had come out, and they had decided not to include "Good Vibrations", it would be really weird for one of their few #1 hits to never be released on an album.

Al has always said he thought GV should been finished for and released on "Pet Sounds", but it feels a least marginally more "Smile" to me than "Pet Sounds." I mean, it really sounds like the middle ground, because that's literally more or less what it is.

Yeah I agree with you. Lyrically it fits Pet Sounds but musically its definitely more SMiLE. I guess IJWMFTT did have the theremin tho.

I also agree with you BJL that SJB belongs on Pet Sounds, musically and emotionally if nothing else.

Ill continue my tangent that WYWY brings Pepper to a screeching halt though. One of the reasons I dont think its as good as PS or SMiLE

[MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm]

Agree with BJL totally that Sloop John B "feels" right on Pet Sounds. That emotional punch, and that juxtaposition of bright/jangly with the darker theme, all feel bang-on for Pet Sounds even if the lyrics come from left field.

And believe me, I'm not kept up at night by GV being on Smile. It's a beautiful song and honestly I'll take it anywhere. As I said, it's just a bit... odd.

One of the things that keeps Smile endlessly fascinating (perhaps too endlessly!) is that it's hard to pin down even what Smile is or what it's supposed to be. So while I see the case for including Good Vibrations from a BB brand perspective, and sure it's more or less a sonic fit -- to me its inclusion muddies the actual themes of Smile even a bit further.

[Dan Lega]

I'm happy for those of you who think "Sloop John B" fits on "Pet Sounds!"  Unfortunately, it never worked for me -- and probably never will.  Sticks like a sore thumb to me.

The below interview with Brian is very interesting.  I get "Murry" vibes from his "gung ho, gotta-do-better-than-them" attitude. 

But Brian also says that what people think of his music really affects him.  You can read it in David Leaf's first book that what other people think of Brian's music really affects him.  And I think it was Bob Hanes who told me a story of Brian at one time playing a song, (perhaps a version of H&V?), to someone not affiliated with the band, and the young guy said he didn't like it, and so Brian scrapped or changed it, even though his "posse" thought it was great!

And, yet, that's the crux of our friends at EH argument, who proclaim that Brian could do anything he wanted to do, and that nobody's opinion could affect him.  They say he scrapped SMiLE because he didn't like the music and the lyrics.  I, on the other hand, have forever proclaimed that Brian has always loved SMiLE, and that it was because the band didn't like it (and perhaps the record company as well) as being the main reason why Brian finally abandoned SMiLE.  David Leaf gets Brian to say that the number one reason (of four reasons) that Brian abandoned SMiLE was because "Mike Love hated it."  Mike Love didn't like "Guess I'm Dumb," too, and so that did not become a Beach Boys track.  I'm rehashing old arguments, of course, but that is my take on why SMiLE was abandoned.  If Brian lost the thread of SMiLE I argue that he lost it because he was torn between somehow making it palatable to Mike Love, and keeping it as he envisioned it.  Which, to me, and probably to Brian, sounds impossible!  So, the other board argues that Brian eventually didn't like SMiLE, yet to me Brian loved SMiLE with all his heart and soul.  That's why he held it back because he didn't want to see it bastardized.  That's why he had so much joy after finally finishing a version of it in 2004, as David Leaf attests to in his new book, and in the documentary.  That's why he brought back Van Dyke to help him finish it.  That's why he didn't change one word of the lyrics.  That's why he gave Van Dyke 50% royalties when everyone else he worked with only got 25%.  Brian never thought, "I don't like the SMiLE music and/or lyrics," but Brian did think, and know, that others didn't like it.  That affected him greatly.

I think SMiLE could have been completed in short order in early 1967 if Brian had total cooperation from the Beach Boys.  Almost all the tracks were done.  Almost all the lyrics were done.  If Van Dyke had stayed/not been pushed out by Mike Love, he could have easily finished the lyrics.  SMiLE probably could have very easily come out as the 12 track album that was proposed.  And it probably would have been separate tracks. 

But, hey, in 2004 we got an even more ambitious, more symphonic, more classically inspired version of SMiLE, with three movements!  An honest to goodness real Rock 'n' Roll Symphony!

And, yeah, Good Vibrations would have almost certainly been a part of the record.  Though I agree, it might not have fit in as well, just like "Sloop John B" doesn't fit on "Pet Sounds" to me.  (There!  I came full circle, just like real writers do!)




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhthfctO3_o

[Julia]

I'm happy for those of you who think "Sloop John B" fits on "Pet Sounds!"  Unfortunately, it never worked for me -- and probably never will.  Sticks like a sore thumb to me.

The below interview with Brian is very interesting.  I get "Murry" vibes from his "gung ho, gotta-do-better-than-them" attitude.  

But Brian also says that what people think of his music really affects him.  You can read it in David Leaf's first book that what other people think of Brian's music really affects him.  And I think it was Bob Hanes who told me a story of Brian at one time playing a song, (perhaps a version of H&V?), to someone not affiliated with the band, and the young guy said he didn't like it, and so Brian scrapped or changed it, even though his "posse" thought it was great!

And, yet, that's the crux of our friends at EH argument, who proclaim that Brian could do anything he wanted to do, and that nobody's opinion could affect him.  They say he scrapped SMiLE because he didn't like the music and the lyrics.  I, on the other hand, have forever proclaimed that Brian has always loved SMiLE, and that it was because the band didn't like it (and perhaps the record company as well) as being the main reason why Brian finally abandoned SMiLE.  David Leaf gets Brian to say that the number one reason (of four reasons) that Brian abandoned SMiLE was because "Mike Love hated it."  Mike Love didn't like "Guess I'm Dumb," too, and so that did not become a Beach Boys track.  I'm rehashing old arguments, of course, but that is my take on why SMiLE was abandoned.  If Brian lost the thread of SMiLE I argue that he lost it because he was torn between somehow making it palatable to Mike Love, and keeping it as he envisioned it.  Which, to me, and probably to Brian, sounds impossible!  So, the other board argues that Brian eventually didn't like SMiLE, yet to me Brian loved SMiLE with all his heart and soul.  That's why he held it back because he didn't want to see it bastardized.  That's why he had so much joy after finally finishing a version of it in 2004, as David Leaf attests to in his new book, and in the documentary.  That's why he brought back Van Dyke to help him finish it.  That's why he didn't change one word of the lyrics.  That's why he gave Van Dyke 50% royalties when everyone else he worked with only got 25%.  Brian never thought, "I don't like the SMiLE music and/or lyrics," but Brian did think, and know, that others didn't like it.  That affected him greatly.

I think SMiLE could have been completed in short order in early 1967 if Brian had total cooperation from the Beach Boys.  Almost all the tracks were done.  Almost all the lyrics were done.  If Van Dyke had stayed/not been pushed out by Mike Love, he could have easily finished the lyrics.  SMiLE probably could have very easily come out as the 12 track album that was proposed.  And it probably would have been separate tracks.  

But, hey, in 2004 we got an even more ambitious, more symphonic, more classically inspired version of SMiLE, with three movements!  An honest to goodness real Rock 'n' Roll Symphony!

And, yeah, Good Vibrations would have almost certainly been a part of the record.  Though I agree, it might not have fit in as well, just like "Sloop John B" doesn't fit on "Pet Sounds" to me.  (There!  I came full circle, just like real writers do!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhthfctO3_o

This actually strengthens your argument, but ALL the lyrics were done according to the Keith Badman book. (And really, if they weren't by Dec 66 at the latest, Brian should've fired VDP because thats half a year!)

I think everyone takes some bias into their interpretation of what happened and how big of an impact it had because there's conflicting info and vagueness, which for the EH crowd (tend to be more conservative, more pro Mike, more anti psychedelic, etc) means assuming SMiLE wasn't that great. The people over there tend to be the ones I recall dumping all over VDP and his lyrics, saying they actually weren't even good and that the whole project was misguided as the followup to Pet Sounds. I remember being a newbie and excitedly talking about SMiLE and getting shut down left and right, made to feel like a nuisance for "rehashing this topic for the hundredth time" and it's like "uhh guys, for me this is the first time--go click another thread if you don't wanna take part!" But really, I get the vibe a lot of that crowd just don't like SMiLE and think no one else should either. It's wild to me. I honestly don't get how you can be a Beach Boy fan and actively hate the best and certainly most interesting thing they ever did. It's like being a Michael Jackson fan and hating Thriller; you might think it's over-emphasized and Off the Wall or Bad deserve more attention in comparison (I do too) but if you HATE Thriller and want no one else to sing its praises it's like, are you really an MJ fan at that point? Or it's like claiming you love the Beatles but you hate anything after Rubber Soul until you get to Let It Be and their solo stuff.

God forbid you say anything about Surf's Up except that it's the greatest album ever though--Feet, SDT and all! They sure can dish it out but can't take it when it comes to other people disliking certain Beach Boy projects.

[Very Extremely Dan]

I am firmly of the belief that not only would GV have been on the SMiLE album, but that it inspired nearly the whole album--

In production technique: modular construction

In harmonic content:  simple two and three chord "vamps"  dressed with extreme vocal counterpoint, juxtaposed with passages of radical harmonic invention

As the first instance of the symbolism and message that repeat through the album:

--It contains the album's title:  "softly SMiLE I know she must be kind"

--The first song released from SMiLE, one of its key lyrics is echoed and concluded in the second SMiLE song revealed to the public:
     GV:  "I HEAR THE sound of a gentle WORD"
     SU:  "I HEARD THE WORD"

--That full line, and nearly every other in the song, utilize the same ELEMENTAL IMAGERY found throughout the album:
     "on the WIND that lifts her perfume through the AIR"  
     "the SUNLIGHT plays upon her hair"
     "she goes with me to a blossom world"

 --The overarching message of the whole album is contained in the final lyric of the song, I believe first tracked in June '66 as "Inspiration" and later as "Persuasion" just as Van and Brian's writing was hitting its stride:  "Gotta keep those lovin' good vibrations happenin' with her"

.....and who does this female metaphor represent?  The (inaccurate) stereotype of the Native American Princess (Pocahontas, Mahaska, Sacagawea, etc.), Lady Liberty/Miss America ("she belongs there left with her liberty") and ultimately Mother Nature.

This is heavy stuff.  Brian and Van wanted to discuss the toll western expansion and the "growing industry demands" had taken on the Elements and the Church of the American Indian...but they were ultimately trying to convey a message of change and hope.  Brian wanted the album to be light and fun in contrast to PET SOUNDS--arty but simple--and what song does it all better?

[Zenobi]

I agree. Basically, after GV, Brian wanted to make a whole album not strictly like GV., but which would start from the GV blueprint. No GV, no SMiLE project.
And that both gave birth to SMiLE, and, imho, was its "downfall" in the end. Namely, GV alone was a long and exhausting endeavour. A whole album done in such a way... too much. To reach the goal, all the stars should have aligned pro Brian. Instead, they all aligned AGAINST poor Brian. Including himself, due to his growing personal problems.

Said that, I use always quotes for words like "downfall", regarding SMiLE. That "downfall" gave birth to:
- Smiley Smile, a (maybe THE) pinnacle of psychedelic music
- Several of the best tracks in their next albums
- The sublime 40-minute SMiLE (including GV) embedded in the fantastic 1993 GV box
- A wholly new thing in Music: the SMiLE mixes, still very much alive even now
- BWPS, the great "symphonic" take on SMiLE by its very authors
- The incomparable 2011 Sessions
- The mini-suite in "At My Piano"

The most successful downfall ever, I guess. 

[Zenobi]

I agree with Julia about a really strange phenomenon in EH. Several (not all, thanks heaven) of the people there, obviously, have no love for SMiLE or VDP, but I get the vibe that they don't really love Brian himself. They seem rather to tolerate him because he composed such a bunch of commercial hits.
Hence the use of "Brianista" as a kind of insult. Whereas "Paulista' is not an insult used by radical John Lennon fans, it's a citizen of Sao Paulo.

[Julia]

I agree with Julia about a really strange phenomenon in EH. Several (not all, thanks heaven) of the people there, obviously, have no love for SMiLE or VDP, but I get the vibe that they don't really love Brian himself. They seem rather to tolerate him because he composed such a bunch of commercial hits.
Hence the use of "Brianista" as a kind of insult. Whereas "Paulista' is not an insult used by radical John Lennon fans, it's a citizen of Sao Paulo.

Yeah, I can understand thinking Brian's shortcomings have gone unsaid, hence my willingness to discuss them in the topic I've started, but like how can you be so down on the guy that's the reason the band got started in the first place? Without any of the other guys, important though they may be, Brian would've been doing amazing work in the industry in some capacity. However, without Brian the other guys wouldn't have gotten signed at all. Without him, they wouldn't have gotten to a point where Wild Honey through Holland (the only period in the group's career they even seem to like) even happened. Like the other guys were talented but Brian wrote all their best songs! Mike brought good lyrics to the table often enough to more than earn his salt, but I also think in at least a few cases he brought Brian's music down with juvenile unimaginative tripe. (I thought this was in the Carlin bio but I guess it was the book on Pet Sounds alone, where the author specifically lists "California Girls" as the moment Brian outgrew Mike; the author felt that beautiful pristine backing track was brought down by such trivial "I wanna bang ALL the girls!" lyrics and I'm inclined to agree. I always just listen to the instrumental of that song these days.)

[BJL]

Mike brought good lyrics to the table often enough to more than earn his salt, but I also think in at least a few cases he brought Brian's music down with juvenile unimaginative tripe. (I thought this was in the Carlin bio but I guess it was the book on Pet Sounds alone, where the author specifically lists "California Girls" as the moment Brian outgrew Mike; the author felt that beautiful pristine backing track was brought down by such trivial "I wanna bang ALL the girls!" lyrics and I'm inclined to agree. I always just listen to the instrumental of that song these days.)

I agree completely that Brian Wilson outgrew Mike Love right about the time California Girls was released. But I've always had an image in my head of Brian Wilson doing acid for the first time, writing this weird cowboy music, getting really excited and being like: "everyone loves girls! It's going to be a song about girls! All different girls! And the chorus will be girls, girls, girls, yeah I dig the girls!" Which I just think is so funny and so how people on drugs often act.

Also in this interview from 2007 (which has the ring of truth imho), Brian claims to have written the first line himself, then gone back and forth with Mike line for line. So not sure you can get away with blaming Mike if you don't like them!

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-ca-socalsong12aug12-story.html

To your actual larger point, though, I agree

[Julia]

Mike brought good lyrics to the table often enough to more than earn his salt, but I also think in at least a few cases he brought Brian's music down with juvenile unimaginative tripe. (I thought this was in the Carlin bio but I guess it was the book on Pet Sounds alone, where the author specifically lists "California Girls" as the moment Brian outgrew Mike; the author felt that beautiful pristine backing track was brought down by such trivial "I wanna bang ALL the girls!" lyrics and I'm inclined to agree. I always just listen to the instrumental of that song these days.)

I agree completely that Brian Wilson outgrew Mike Love right about the time California Girls was released. But I've always had an image in my head of Brian Wilson doing acid for the first time, writing this weird cowboy music, getting really excited and being like: "everyone loves girls! It's going to be a song about girls! All different girls! And the chorus will be girls, girls, girls, yeah I dig the girls!" Which I just think is so funny and so how people on drugs often act.

Also in this interview from 2007 (which has the ring of truth imho), Brian claims to have written the first line himself, then gone back and forth with Mike line for line. So not sure you can get away with blaming Mike if you don't like them!

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-ca-socalsong12aug12-story.html

To your actual larger point, though, I agree

Really? Ha, that's funny. I guess it does tie into what Asher said about Brian just really being an unsophistocated and horny guy always naively talking about how much he liked girls during their sessions.

[Julia]

I hope you all will forgive me if I respond to some old posts from way back, but I had yet to read through this spectacular thread in its entirety! There were many other individual contributions I could have singled out for a reply but then I'd bury the lede under an avalanche of my own contributions 

So I'll ask in reference to Carl's October 1967 interview, was Carl also a resident of "crazy town" with the way he directly contradicted Taylor's statement?

Carl specifically said it wasn't scrapped, and specifically said they started again from scratch (on Smiley Smile). If Carl is to be believed, that all but destroys the narrative that Smile and Smiley Smile were part of the same project timeline, that Smiley Smile *is* Smile, and that sessions merely blended into each other. Carl suggested a definite breaking point in the timeline switching from work on Smile to work on what became "Smiley Smile", with the phrase "starting from scratch" being pretty definite.

That breaking point, as pointed out earlier, was the two weeks at the end of May, into the first week of June '67 when the Boys returned from the European tour, held sessions at Western and Sound Recorders for "Vegetables", "With Me Tonight", and "Cool Cool Water", then in the span of one week drastically changed the entire working method and moved to Brian's house to start recording what ended up on Smiley Smile.

^I never really bought that "Smiley Smile IS Smile" essay either, though there is definitely some truth to it in that certain songs and concepts carried over. Brian wanted good vibes so he made a fun album with everyone feeling included and smoking weed. He wanted a humor album with chanting, spoken word comedy and inventive use of editing so he got it, albeit differently than he first envisioned. But Smiley is NOT the natural evolution of SMiLE, it's in many ways a deliberate counterpoint to it. It's the same concepts and intended mood but a completely different style and stripped of its spiritual/philosophical message--there's no ruminating over America's mistakes, no celebration of fitness and the natural world, no discovery of "a children's song" that makes all the suffering of life worth it. It's just a kooky stoner album.

...

It was interesting to see the posts breaking down that Smiley Wind Chimes is actually MORE complex than SMiLE rather than less. It strengthens my resolve that Smiley was not merely a rushjob as the narrative often tells it but a brilliant symphonic work in its own right, its "lo-fi" qualities being a deliberate aesthetic choice. Why go in that direction? I always assumed as a deliberate counterpoint to the Beatles, since he worried Pepper would make SMiLE feel like a copycat also-ran in the eyes of the ignorant and Beatle-worshipping public. It was certainly a bold uncharted course and sounds great once the listener stops comparing it to Pet Sounds and SMiLE. Otherwise I just don't know why Brian would go in that way he must've known was unlikely to be commercial. Maybe it was a self-imposed artistic challenge without much care to profitability (how can I make an album that's complex while still sounding stripped down) but from what I've read of him, even Brian cared deeply about sales figures and popularity so that doesn't fully track. I mentioned before it could be malicious compliance and self-sabotage and I maintain that was almost certainly part of it if even on a subconscious level. Other bandmates have accused him of this with regard to Smiley-Heroes: I think it was Bruce who said "he deliberately underproduced that song." The production credit to the whole band must've been partly a way to boost their egos ("look you can do this without me, so you do you and I'll go produce Redwood") as well as to cover his own ass ("don't blame me, this isn't my work, I'm the Pet Sounds guy not the Smiley guy.")

I suspect the reason for contradictory evidence like this, where the old Brian genius is still there even as he takes his name off, represents a messy combo of compromises and half-measures. The band wanted to have a bigger role in the creative process so he gave it to them, but they'd have to own up to the backlash which even (especially?) Brian saw coming. They rejected his baby so he wasn't gonna give them exactly what they wanted even if he abandoned the psychedelic symphony aesthetic. He was self-sabotaging but even Brian going against the grain still produces an accidental gem of an album. Things like that.

...

With response to someone else saying "there's a lot of 'for some reason this didnt happen'" around this period of the band's history (I believe that was HeyJude) I think we can just chalk that up to Brian yoyoing from one high euphoric thought to the next. That starts in October with the many instances of "yeah, let's put this on the album!" (with respect to chants, humor skits, cutlery banging, etc) and continues on to more consequential things like the album not getting done even though it was seemingly right there, etc. He just sounds like a film executive on coke to me, thinking his every idea is the most brilliant thing ever, and it speaks to his innate talent and irreverent charm that it kinda was.

There's an anecdote from the wiki page now I had never seen before, where as early as Nov '66 Brian consulted the I Ching and it told him the project was destined to collapse so everyone could pursue their own creative endeavors. (The citation for this is Priore's 2005 book, not LLVS the other one that gets a lot less praise or attention.) This makes me wonder if even as early as that, Brian was spinning the wheels on a half-hearted venture he knew was "destined" to fail but couldn't bear to let everyone down so he kept telling them "soon, eventually, yep still working, maybe next month, yeah by the end of the Summer totally..." or maybe plans kept changing because he'd consult that stupid I Ching or numerology or that goofy astrologer who told him when to release the Heroes single rather than just do his own thing, make his own destiny. That may be an overlooked piece of the puzzle, that these cute but ultimately gibberish New Age philosophies were having as detrimental an impact as the oft-cited boogeyman of drugs and mental illness. (Of course, there's a ton of overlap.)